Monday 11'th 2015

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 May, 2015 5:08 pm

Margaret Halliday retweeted
Jon ‏@swindon81 4 hrs4 hours ago

With respect @Support you let hate preachers preach real hatred all day and you suspend me without reason? Madness.

Not sure what this is about right at the moment, but just wondering if it's the beginning of gagging opponents. Jon's been a real thorn in the Tories side.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 11 May, 2015 5:13 pm

I might be completely wrong and\or out of date, but if you're thinking of joining Labour in order to have an input to the leadership vote, I'd advise you to move quickly. There is (or was) a minimum length of membership in order to qualify for a vote. I think.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 May, 2015 5:19 pm

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 11 May, 2015 5:20 pm

Just given FTN a shameless plug on Twitter.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 May, 2015 5:20 pm

@Temulkar

Sorry, my comprehension skills are lacking. I misunderstood what you meant.
Just goes to show that grammar school education ain't that good, whatever the Tories say.

I admit I am on a hair trigger with you though, because of the past and comments made to myself and people here I respect, and probably read it too quick.

I have deleted my posts.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 5:20 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:IIRC HappyChickie was the simpering sycophant that used to follow Rusty around making "Oh you're so clever Mr rustinpeace" inanities. No surprise that it followed him over here to have a good gloat.

Classy...

Join the dots Rog. Rusty likes the sound of his own voice so much ......

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 May, 2015 5:22 pm

ephemerid wrote:Just given FTN a shameless plug on Twitter.

They'll bugger off again if they see the posts above.

Will delete mine - if that is ok with Temulkar, unless he wants them kept.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 5:27 pm

....... swinging welfare cuts .....

A product of Thatcher's education system, obviously.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 5:40 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: Still comes out with the guff about "aspiration" though - a bit disappointing tbh.

It was "identity" stuff which really did for Labour this time round - both sides of the border.
Care to say a little more on that, AK?
Fairly simple, innit. Crosby and the captive Tory press played off English nationalism against Scottish nationalism - with devastating effects both sides of Hadrian's Wall.

Blairite wonkery and smooth lifelong career politicians will not address this.

What will is community based politics and values, authenticity and sincerity.

You know, community based politics, understanding the needs of the regions, all those issues which are so vital are actually things Tristram Hunt understands, at an instinctual and intellectual level; he appears to have done a decent job in Stoke-on-Trent (his majority dipped a tiny amount, but appears to have been untouched by UKIP) and his area of speciality as an historian is urban history - the final chapters of his book Building Jerusalem almost read like a blueprint of the regionalisation polices that were proposed.

And he is definitely passionate, I've seen a couple of TV appearances where he (very politely) tore his opponent a new arsehole. Problem is .... well, he is called Tristram and he is posh, which will immediately turn off so many. I actually don't think he would be a bad choice as leader, but he would certainly not be the best one.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 May, 2015 5:42 pm

To be fair, I went in feet first Ephie.

Was over sensitive and suspicious about motives, and apologise for any bad feeling caused.

I think Jarvis would have been a good contender just from the media persona point of view, don't know enough about his views. We are in the media age, can't get away from that.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 11 May, 2015 5:56 pm

yahyah wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Just given FTN a shameless plug on Twitter.

They'll bugger off again if they see the posts above.

Will delete mine - if that is ok with Temulkar, unless he wants them kept.

At least it wasn't another football related episode,
Now that could scare people off.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 5:59 pm

onebuttonmonkey wrote:By the way, I wasn't just venting my "what to do?" despair rhetorically. I genuinely don't know and would value the advice of those around here. mrs. onebuttonmonkey says I should rejoin Labour; I don't know if I've ever felt like I'm about to have less in common with them or less ability to influence them.

What to do?

If Ummuna or Cooper get the leadership then I'm sure many of us will be asking you what we should do. In the meantime I will do what I have always done, what I did throughout the Blair years; accept that a degree of pragmatism & compromise is essential, but work within the Party to bring it nearer to the Old Labour my grandfather introduced me too all those years ago. As several people have said, right at this moment it is better to be inside that tent pissing out, because it is windy outside and the alternative will be messy.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:04 pm

yahyah wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Ed didn't lose us votes.
Just listened (well a while ago) to Olli Grenda (SP?) on the radio, LibDems have already done their analysis (fewer voter base to look at) and conclude the last ditch letter sent on the day before polling to all marginal seats (not sure if she meant just LibDem marginals, that needs investigating) clinched it for the torys. In it he pleaded that the SNP would have such a hold over Labour that (virtually) the whole world would collapse. They have already made voter contact and that letter was the over whelming reason given by those voters (who had already committed to vote LibDem during the campaign) changing at the last minute was fear of the SNP.
Perhaps Labour should contact the LibDem and pool inquest enquires. We need to know if that letter went out to all marginals.
We were expecting a dirty last ditch dirt throwing, but didn't expect it to land such a direct hit on marginal seats.
Two more tory voters I've spoken to both said they couldn't risk the SNP holding power over Labour. So that's three I've spoken to. I don't know any more to ask.

Do you get a sense those people didn't want the SNP holding power because they may have used it to further the break up of the Union or because they were perceived as being too leftist/awkward to deal with ?

As I've posted on the outreach thread, my neighbour's been shocked to find how many of her old friends veered to the right on the basis of the Tory fear campaign, but some were anxious about what they saw as a left wing bloc causing trouble. & these were people she had never thought of as right wing in their thinking...she wouldn't have been friends with them if they were, she's that type of person.

I am asking that question because...if, as is tempting, we want Labour to move to the left what is its future in getting those voters back ?
Is it Scots/Welsh nationalism they dislike or the policies the SNP/Greens/Plaid were putting forward that made voters fearful ?

Also have a feeling that the anti-austerity Axis women, during the debates, snapping at Ed, would have put a lot of people off going for Labour.

I can't really answer as I've only spoken to 3 people who voted tory. One was sending a message to Ed not to get too close to the SNP (so he didn't put them in the cabinet) but expected him to win and is devastated he didn't. Second doesn't do politics but said "even I've heard about the SNP threat." and the last one belongs in a comedy sketch. She voted tory because she watched the debates and thought "that Sturgeon is a Margret Thatcher in the making and we cant go back to Thatcher."
That's why I think it would be a good idea for Labour to make contact with the LibDem to share analysis details. My anecdotes don't prove anything, but do seem to try in with what the LibDems are finding. - either that or someone is putting something in our water.....
Edit to correct crazy spelling

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:05 pm

Blimey, I appear to be monopolising things at the moment. Any road up .....

Charlotte Church is impressing me more and more by the day!!

https://charlottesayshmmm.wordpress.com ... rl-myself/

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:17 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
You know, community based politics, understanding the needs of the regions, all those issues which are so vital are actually things Tristram Hunt understands, at an instinctual and intellectual level; he appears to have done a decent job in Stoke-on-Trent (his majority dipped a tiny amount, but appears to have been untouched by UKIP) and his area of speciality as an historian is urban history - the final chapters of his book Building Jerusalem almost read like a blueprint of the regionalisation polices that were proposed.

And he is definitely passionate, I've seen a couple of TV appearances where he (very politely) tore his opponent a new arsehole. Problem is .... well, he is called Tristram and he is posh, which will immediately turn off so many. I actually don't think he would be a bad choice as leader, but he would certainly not be the best one.

Hunt had a big fall last time, after a controversial selection process.

I think he was pretty good as a Shadow in policy terms, and very much regret he's not the Education Secretary. But he didn't make much political impact. Burnham, Mid Staffs shit and all, did better.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:19 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Blimey, I appear to be monopolising things at the moment. Any road up .....

Charlotte Church is impressing me more and more by the day!!

https://charlottesayshmmm.wordpress.com ... rl-myself/

Thanks for the link. Good article. So only 24% of the eligible population voted Tory. And the Blairites want us to chase Tory votes. Are they sure there's still enough of them to go around?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:26 pm

The other thing - if the LibDem are right on the fear of SNP and marginal seat targeting - would go some way to explain why it was the marginal seats that failed to deliver whilst majority held seats stay almost the same or in some cases increased. It would also go some way to explaining the discrepancy in the polls.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:29 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:AS has the new shadow cabinet - no real surprises Chris Leslie as Shadow Chancellor and Hilary Benn as Shadow Foriegn Sec.

Leader of the Opposition and Acting Leader of the Labour Party
Harriet Harman MP
Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer
Chris Leslie MP
Shadow Foreign Secretary
Hilary Benn MP
Shadow Home Secretary
Yvette Cooper MP

Shadow Lord Chancellor, Shadow Secretary of State for Justice
Lord Falconer of Thoroton

Opposition Chief Whip
Rosie Winterton MP

Shadow Secretary of State for Health
Andy Burnham MP

Shadow Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills
Chuka Umunna MP

Shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions
Rachel Reeves MP

Shadow Secretary of State for Education
Tristram Hunt MP

Shadow Secretary of State for Defence
Vernon Coaker MP

Shadow Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government
Emma Reynolds MP
Shadow Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change
Caroline Flint MP

Shadow Leader of the House of Commons and Chair of the National Policy Forum
Angela Eagle MP

Shadow Secretary of State for Transport
Michael Dugher MP

Shadow Secretary of State for Northern Ireland
Ivan Lewis MP

Shadow Secretary of State for International Development
Mary Creagh MP

Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland
Ian Murray MP
Shadow Secretary of State for Wales
Owen Smith MP

Shadow Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
Maria Eagle MP

Shadow Minister for the Cabinet Office
Lucy Powell MP

Shadow Minister without Portfolio and Deputy Party Chair
Jon Trickett MP

Shadow Minister for Women and Equalities
Gloria De Piero MP

Shadow Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport
Chris Bryant MP

Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
Shabana Mahmood MP

Shadow Leader of the House of Lords
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon

Lords Chief Whip
Lord Bassam of Brighton

Also attending Shadow Cabinet:
Shadow Minister for Care and Older People
Liz Kendall MP
Shadow Attorney General
Lord Bach
So no Sadiq Khan as Justice?

Looks like a bid for Mayor of London on the cards then.

Disappointed not to see Starmer in there although as he's only just been elected it may be too early.

All about continuity at the moment Rog, most of them already know their brief so will be able to take the fight (as much as they can) to the Tories. Disappointed Sadiq appears to have stepped aside; somebody said earlier about Ken Livingstone's GLC being the only credible opposition to Thatcher, maybe he sees his destiny there for the moment. The Benn promotion is intriguing.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:29 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
You know, community based politics, understanding the needs of the regions, all those issues which are so vital are actually things Tristram Hunt understands, at an instinctual and intellectual level; he appears to have done a decent job in Stoke-on-Trent (his majority dipped a tiny amount, but appears to have been untouched by UKIP) and his area of speciality as an historian is urban history - the final chapters of his book Building Jerusalem almost read like a blueprint of the regionalisation polices that were proposed.

And he is definitely passionate, I've seen a couple of TV appearances where he (very politely) tore his opponent a new arsehole. Problem is .... well, he is called Tristram and he is posh, which will immediately turn off so many. I actually don't think he would be a bad choice as leader, but he would certainly not be the best one.
Hunt had a big fall last time, after a controversial selection process.

I think he was pretty good as a Shadow in policy terms, and very much regret he's not the Education Secretary. But he didn't make much political impact. Burnham, Mid Staffs shit and all, did better.

I'm coming round to Burnham.
Discounting him because of the Midstaffs thing could be a mistake. Why would the Tories go to such lengths to try neutralise him with this discrediting strategy unless you fear in a straight argument on the issues he'd beat you to a pulp? He does have passion, but he's also able to be flexible. His reaction to the potential devolution of the NHS budget to Manchester showed a man who really cared but who stopped to think before he took a position. I thought he handled an extremely difficult situation very well.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:30 pm

Duplicate post

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:31 pm

Duplicate post.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:31 pm

Oops.
Triple post

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:31 pm

Someone's just tweeted Eric Pickles has gone...

I wonder if that means they're going to pick on fat people re NHS and had to get him out of the way?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:34 pm

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:35 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Someone's just tweeted Eric Pickles has gone...

I wonder if that means they're going to pick on fat people re NHS and had to get him out of the way?

Out from Communities & Dust Bin Collections.

Hope he isn't going to get Health. Cameron wouldn't, would he ?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:36 pm

Louise Mensch is unhappy about Pickles.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:39 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Someone's just tweeted Eric Pickles has gone...

I wonder if that means they're going to pick on fat people re NHS and had to get him out of the way?

He's gone to sit on the Holocaust Commission.

I said on AS this is the equivalent of someone where I worked being given Special Projects - it's the door next...

Oddly enough two MPs that sat on that were Ed Balls and Simon Hughes!

It sounds vaguely quango-ish...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:40 pm

‏@SophyRidgeSky

Cheers from Labour MPs as Harriet Harman says "you don't have to listen to Peter Mandelson"

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:44 pm

yahyah wrote:Louise Mensch is unhappy about Pickles.

I'm with her on that one. Never did understand why they put them in all the burgers.

Post by **refitman** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:50 pm

ohsocynical wrote:BTW. Is Dan all right? Or have I missed if he's posted in the last few days?

Also wondering how Ernst is doing.

I'm fine, just my usual quiet self.

Re: The 'Thanks button'. I'm out for a bit tonight, but will have a look at installing it when I get home. If not, tomorrow.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:02 pm

ohsocynical wrote:‏@SophyRidgeSky

Cheers from Labour MPs as Harriet Harman says "you don't have to listen to Peter Mandelson"

Harriet Harman has just rocketed up my popularity poll.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:02 pm

Amidst all the talk all I can offer is that there are up to five years of fighting a Tory hegemony before a unified left has the opportunity to govern. In the meantime, whatever their allegiances, we must reach out to decent human beings, including those who may sit on government benches. How, where and to whom you reach out is up to you. Unless you want anarchy, please engage and communicate with less falling out, even with perceived enemies.

Most of us disagree with right-leaning folk, but should welcome paths of communication and exchange of ideas. As citizens we cannot afford to wait another five years. Scaremongers and hatemongers have seized the coop, but must not rule the roost; they only have a small majority. We can at least coordinate proactively and respectfully engage with our MPs over issues worth raising or that come before the House. Let's keep each other informed. No-one says we have to like them.

onebuttonmonkey · Post by **onebuttonmonkey** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:02 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:If Ummuna or Cooper get the leadership then I'm sure many of us will be asking you what we should do.

If that happens, I think that only Farage's resignation will be shorter than my rejoining... Umunna really is a <nerd hat>404 content not found error </nerd hat> in a suit, isn't he?

Seriously, thanks to all (in the absence of the thanks button). I know we're all feeling our way through at the moment - for different reasons and from different perspectives - and I appreciate your comments. For all that I'm very conflicted about the choice, I think it's probably right to give it a go - if only to push anyone who starts banging on about "aspirational voters" down the stairs. (I mean, really. Can't we just call them "voters" and stop twisting the language we apply to everyone else to suit our own view of what the party should be, Peter?).

I might just head off over to fill in that "still got the old leader by it" web form. I do wish leaders would hold off resigning so that parties could focus on opposition in the meantime, though...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:03 pm

onebuttonmonkey wrote:By the way, I wasn't just venting my "what to do?" despair rhetorically. I genuinely don't know and would value the advice of those around here. mrs. onebuttonmonkey says I should rejoin Labour; I don't know if I've ever felt like I'm about to have less in common with them or less ability to influence them.

What to do?

Well you could join so you have a vote for leader ... at a bare minimum. If the direction goes the wrong way in your opinion - membership is not irrevocable!

The other factor might be who you have locally as Labour reps - MP, councillor, candidates etc - and their values, principles and actions. Sometimes I deal with my doubts by focusing closer to my own centre of activity ... and we are pretty lucky, got some great people around who aren't afraid to be critical, own some of the issues, but try to work for positives.

Editing to add: I've clearly got more ability to influence at the local level too.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:03 pm

refitman wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:BTW. Is Dan all right? Or have I missed if he's posted in the last few days?

Also wondering how Ernst is doing.
I'm fine, just my usual quiet self.

Re: The 'Thanks button'. I'm out for a bit tonight, but will have a look at installing it when I get home. If not, tomorrow.

That's what they all say . . . .

Have a good evening.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:06 pm

yahyah wrote:Louise Mensch is unhappy about Pickles.

Doesn't that sound like some terrible art house student movie?

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:09 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Louise Mensch is unhappy about Pickles.
Doesn't that sound like some terrible art house student movie?

...or a commercial for Subway...

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:11 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/da ... un-5675484?
Dan Jarvis - 24.3%
Someone else - 19.2%
Chuka Umuna - 14.5%
Andy Burnham - 14.2%
Ed Miliband - 13.4%
Yvette Cooper - 8.6%
Tristram Hunt - 3.3%
Rachel Reeves - 2.5%

Current ranking on the Mirror - who should be Labour leader - poll

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:12 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
yahyah wrote:Louise Mensch is unhappy about Pickles.
I'm with her on that one. Never did understand why they put them in all the burgers.

Me - I love a gherkin.Yummy!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:12 pm

Jonathan Simons @PXEducation · 27m 27 minutes ago
Jonathan Simons retweeted Alex Wickham
Fathers are always helpful

Jonathan Simons added,
Alex Wickham @WikiGuido
Stanley Johnson tells @IainDale new science minister Jo Johnson "doesn't know anything about science"

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:13 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
yahyah wrote:Louise Mensch is unhappy about Pickles.
I'm with her on that one. Never did understand why they put them in all the burgers.

I know why.

She is pickled herself.

It's the Botox. It's a poison, you know. I think it gets absorbed into the brain.....

---------------------------------------------------

For Tem and Tiz -

Mea culpa, it was I who called Bartolotti hatstand barking. Poor joke.
Mea culpa, it was I who called lovely Leanne Miss Woody Two-Shoes. Good joke.
Mea culpa, it was I who called Nathan Gill an oleaginous spiv Mormon git. No joke.
Mea culpa, it was I who called Stephen Crabb a total utter prat and more. Also no joke.
Mea culpa, it was I who invented OGRFG and preening popinjay for TCC. Absolute truth.
Mea culpa, it was I who accused Gidiot of a snow problem on his nodding performance at PMQs. Gouch out!
Mea culpa, it was I who said I'd be up early to hate IDS a bit longer. And I'll say it again and never apologise.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

I have been really really horrible to just about everyone who I feel like taking the piss out of or being nasty to.
Nobody is safe.

Pickles is a fat git. Shapps is a lot of people and I despise them all. Boris is a nasty vicious proto-fascist thug.
Redwood is Vulcan. I honestly believe that this is true.
Hammond is a dangerous snake. Truss is irredeemably thick and I hate her little-girlie foolishness.
Gove is a fish. I honestly believe that this is also true.
Fester McVile and Jeremy NoTypo are hideous people and I despise them deeply.

In fact, I have been absolutely foul about the Tories because they deserve it.
I have also sharpened my tongue on Reeves, Green, and a few Labour bods.

Yet through all of this, only one flippant jokey remark gets picked on for a comment.
If we all did this, we'd be in PC-lingo up to the kazoo and life's too bloody short.

I've got some serious thinking to do and I'd like it if people with brains - whatever our political differences - got together and worked together to sort out what we can do to build a bit of left-wing resilience in the face of what is going to be a brutal few years.

The people we love, our kids, the people who come after us, deserve it; I want to get on with it. This is a call to arms, people!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:21 pm

Mark Steel ‏@mrmarksteel 19m19 minutes ago
Maybe we've misunderstood Nigel Farage and he's a soap opera. Tomorrow he'll announce he's gay and on Friday that Barbara Windsor's his mum.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:22 pm

Great post ephemerid.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:24 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Mark Steel ‏@mrmarksteel 19m19 minutes ago
Maybe we've misunderstood Nigel Farage and he's a soap opera. Tomorrow he'll announce he's gay and on Friday that Barbara Windsor's his mum.

Ha! Maybe I'll come out of the shower tomorrow and everyone will discover that they dreamt him.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:26 pm

And maybe, in a Ukip-supporter embracing gesture, Ed Miliband could come back, too.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:30 pm

PorFavor wrote:And maybe, in a Ukip-supporter embracing gesture, Ed Miliband could come back, too.

I wish.....

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:31 pm

PorFavor wrote:And maybe, in a Ukip-supporter embracing gesture, Ed Miliband could come back, too.

According to a tweet I saw earlier he and Justine were on a flight to Ibiza ... (he'll probably come back from a scripted holiday with a different face, different voice ... and we'll all be expected to pretend we don't notice it's David).

Tonibel · Post by **Tonibel** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:32 pm

A small chicken coming home to roost. According to Ch4 news because UKs unemployment figures are so good, compared with rest of EU, we will overtake a greater proportion of the refugees landing in Italy. Shouldn't fiddle the figures.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:34 pm

George Eaton @georgeeaton · 25m 25 minutes ago
Furious Ian Lavery shouting at PLP meeting that party must not return to New Labour - "we live in 2015, not 1997".

Sounds like it was quite a punchy meeting from tweets I've seen. Harman doing her job well.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:36 pm

Tonibel wrote:A small chicken coming home to roost. According to Ch4 news because UKs unemployment figures are so good, compared with rest of EU, we will overtake a greater proportion of the refugees landing in Italy. Shouldn't fiddle the figures.

Apparently this is one area of the EU treaty that we have a veto over. Dave can, and I bet will, say the UK isn't going to take them. This will, no doubt, go down well with his backbenchers and the Ukippers.