Monday 11'th 2015

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 11 May, 2015 1:32 am

Fuck.

We're screwed.

Post by **adam** » Mon 11 May, 2015 6:12 am

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:Fuck.

We're screwed.

Yeah, I agree with this. The Labour right shouting 'you can't blame the press or the voters' is delusional bullshit. Whoever is in charge, a Labour party that wants to change anything will be shat on over and over again, and the fact is the only time Labour win is when Murdoch wants them to.

One of the things I teach, around horror movies, is that the real horror doesn't lie in the monsters, it lies in their victims and in what that tells us about what life is like - people want to be zombies. I already know a dozen people at work who know that the tories call teachers 'the enemies of promise', that we get in the way of the aspiration of children and of conservative politicians who want to do better for them, that we are the blob, but they voted for the people who insult them because the other guy looked funny.

Things I'm no longer interested in include

1. Being interested in things
2. Caring
3. Trying

The tories will either fuck it up so monumentally in the style of the early to mid 90s whilst Labour charge to the right and the press allow them to have a turn, or the tories will win whilst a Labour party that wants to change anything is heaped with scorn and derision, whoever is in charge, because change can't happen and they have to be stopped. And people are sheep and will decide they can't vote for the funny looking guy.

I will try to do a bit better in the day to day with the stuff I do anyway and just give up on anything else - there is no point.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:07 am

Where Labour went wrong – and what we must do to put it right

http://gu.com/p/4895x

He's wasting no time this lad is he?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:23 am

Morning.

Re Angela Eagle for leader. She's great, I agree.

But remember ... she's got a twin sister who is also in the HoC .... very dangerous territory there. Just imagine the narratives that could be spun at will.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:26 am

StephenDolan wrote:Where Labour went wrong – and what we must do to put it right

http://gu.com/p/4895x

He's wasting no time this lad is he?

At least he is gracious towards Ed Miliband in it.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 7:39 am

Morning all.

Very good piece by Dan Jarvis in LabourList. Sets out the problems rather better than Chuka imo.

http://labourlist.org/2015/05/im-ready- ... as-leader/

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:06 am

No more pointing at Sturgeon and Salmond, Dave congratulates himself for pulling off the performance of his life. George gains high office and May extends powers. Gove, given the whip when teachers told him what to do, is now serving justice.

I could try pinching myself.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:14 am

@Swarthlander

I used to defend the BBC, it has many arms that used to defend honesty and truth but alas, it's time for the BBC to go. It's now a corrupt state propaganda service and it has no purpose other than spread unquestioned untruths and government press bile. I cannot defend it any more.

I got into a very big debate about just this on Twitter yesterday. My argument is that saying "the BBC has to go" is wrong, simply because the main real alternative for so many is Murdoch and I don't like to think of that bastard as winning, he has been trying to kill off the BBC for years.

The BBC isn't just about news and current affairs. It is about education, enlightenment and entertainment; still most of the best UK-based documentaries, daram and comedy comes from the Beeb. It isn't just about TV, it is also about radio; I value Radio 3, Radio 4 (apart from its news/current affairs), 4Extra and 6Music, there are no alternatives for them, just a mass of insipid Radio 1 & 2 clones.

We're in a baby/bathwater disposal situation here. Do we wash our hands of it, even though there is still much to be commended, or do we do something more radical? The point is, we pay for it, it is our BBC not Cameron's, not Shapps toy to play with, acting like some poundshop Joseph Goebbels; my argument is that to beat the Tories we don't just need to get ourselves organised politically, we also need to ensure that we have a voice, an impartial broadcaster. I don't know how we do it, but we need to work for it; and as somebody said to me yesterday, it will be a hard fight, to which there is only one answer - to paraphrase JFK

We choose to do these things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:20 am

Morning All,
Just found the following, by George Monbiot,
whilst googling "misinformed turkeys"

http://www.alternet.org/story/154082/co ... nformation

Quite an old article, so you may have already read it,
But it cheered me up, slightly.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:20 am

Morning.

I have read the entire weekend thread on this forum, and taken on board many points. However, I'm afraid to say I feel the same way as adam and TSGO. In fact I've probably hardened since Friday. Go to the Guardian website and there's Mandelson and Umunna (and IDS!); listen to the BBC News and apparently Cameron is "going to restore fairness" to Britain. No really. A six-year-old lie and a few months of scaremongering about Scotland cut through more than everything that *actually* happened in the last five years, Murdoch and Cameron got away with absolutely, literally everything and Labour will come under severe pressure to turn right again.

I cannot be optimistic about a country that voted for proto-fascist filth. By that I don't mean the Tories in general, however much I despise them. I mean *this* Tory party. We're on the brink of something all right; it certainly isn't "something special".

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:23 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Where Labour went wrong – and what we must do to put it right

http://gu.com/p/4895x

He's wasting no time this lad is he?
At least he is gracious towards Ed Miliband in it.

Evetermorn all....

It's easy for him to be gracious to a spent threat - where was this great leviathan of British politics when he was really needed in the run up to the election? Oh, that's right - some important work for the 'Middle East Quartet' or something - and Ed was a massive and undeniable threat to the status quo of Westminster (and the blind acceptance by Westminster and their propaganda wing, the MSM, of the 'truths of Rupert and the Corporations') and the nice well-supplied gravy train Tory Blur's been riding since selling his soul to Murkydochia.

I still think there must (and will) be more made of the illegitimacy of a system that allows so much destruction behind so many lies when 63% of those who voted, voted against the Tories. Personally, the perverse nature of the electoral system was the reason I used to give when I didn't vote - a 'no' vote should be counted as 'against' the Government....reducing their actual approval rating to less than 25% of all potential votes. Even Ashcroft seems to have noticed (no such qualms when it delivered the start of this period of Tory hegemony with Thatch

throughout the 80s' however - funny that - almost as though it might help to increase the disorganisation and confusion around everything to do with politics).

As a bit of 'anecdotal', I heard TCC interviewed on a BBC news(? - can we call it that now?) - just a short piece, about the EU Referendum...where the nice journo explained in nice easy terms that this was a victory for our Great Leader and that although it would be difficult, he is great and a leader so it'll all be brilliant - cut to TCC soundbite - a weedy frightened little voice saying "I've called the European leaders...on the phone (d'you see?), I've told them we're going to renegotiate and we need a new settlement" - not verbatim, natch, but it was striking how much it sounded like a frightened schoolboy. Now, I'm sure our Great Leader was just having an 'off' moment (or possibly a 'brain fade' moment)...but I couldn't resist a little giggle, imagining all of the really difficult conversations he's going to have over the next few days, weeks, months and years - as we know, the list of omnishambolic frackwittery in very nearly endless.

I do wonder (tin-foil hat firmly secured) whether the Tories and their master strategist (and all their backers) have been a bit surprised by how well it all worked - a Miliband victory (anything short of a majority) would have allowed TCC and his inhuman cohorts to laugh and point fingers at 'look at them - they can't clean up that mess'...but Dodgy Dave - if you've convinced yourself that 'Labour left a mess' in 2010, it's nothing to what you've got facing you now.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:24 am

Morning.

Peter Jukes retweeted
Cllr John Edwards @JohnEdwards33 · 9h 9 hours ago
Companies who have an eye on a privatised fire and rescue service have gained half a billion pounds on the stock exchange since Thursday.

HappyChickie · Post by **HappyChickie** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:25 am

Top of the day to you nesters, and what a glorious past few days it has been. F A N T A S T I C

Even the sun is shining on all those new Conservative MPs starting their new roles.

Wasn’t that election exciting? Full and proper majority Conservative government. Brilliant. Even better was the bloodbath that Labour took.

The educated and sane electorate had their say, and boy did they talk.

331 seats.

Bet you never saw that coming. Thought Labour had it the bag. LOL

I’ve had had the pleasure of watching you all shriek, holler and howl over various forums about how bad the Tories were and how they would take a beating and well gosh, I can almost feel your pain.

I’m enjoying it.

IDS is staying in his current role and it fills me with complete joy!

I don’t want to know the details of where the 12 billion in cuts are going to be, but the deserving underclass and those on the beg should brace themselves. IDS will take a chainsaw to welfare. Hard public sector cuts are around the corner too. Bring it on!

I also hope those who went door to door campaigning for Labour, distributing leaflets etc whilst say they are too sick to work are motivated to look for work.  Something for nothing has now come to an end. And I don’t think Maximus has any new openings. Just saying…

The envy of the world (NHS) will now be sold off and about time too. The haemorrhaging money pit is no longer fit for purpose, Labour saw to that with their PFI deals. It was easy for you lefties to demand more money for the NHS. It's not you who are going to end up paying for it.

We are onto 5 years of economic stability, Britain is open for business again, more money in our pockets and many tax cuts to come, for those of us who work that is.

Long may it continue and it will. I predict 500 seats for the Conservatives in 2020.

I’ll now leave you all in your cauldron of lunacy, but rest assured, I’ll be in the front row of that audience when the lefty orchestra is being conducted on CIF when you are all whipped into a frenzy over hard core Conservative policies. I expect there will be many encores.

One more thing before I go, I too left CIF because of the complete and utter rubbish many of you posted.

Have to run, work to do, and a life to lead.

I remain as always, a very HappyChickie.

PS – Rog you still owe me an apology.

minch · Post by **minch** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:26 am

A few quick observations.
1) The vote for Labour did not collapse – it went up by 1.5% and the Conservatives vote went up by 0.5%
2) The number of votes needed per seat for Conservatives and Labour changed. Labour used to need less votes per seat and now it needs more.
3) The real game changers were the drop in LD votes and the rise in UKIP votes. This altered how fairly stable votes for Labour and Conservatives were transformed into seats.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:26 am

Re the BBC. The BBC is not the problem. The stranglehold the independently schooled, Tory voting establishment have on all our top careers - the judiciary, journalism, health - that's the problem. If you get rid of the BBC, the same partisan political correspondants will say the same partisan things on another channel. Meanwhile you've lost an example of left-wing socialist success, renowned around the world. The Tories despise the BBC so much, why give them what they want?
Morning, btw.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:28 am

NonOxCol wrote:Morning.

I have read the entire weekend thread on this forum, and taken on board many points. However, I'm afraid to say I feel the same way as adam and TSGO. In fact I've probably hardened since Friday. Go to the Guardian website and there's Mandelson and Umunna (and IDS!); listen to the BBC News and apparently Cameron is "going to restore fairness" to Britain. No really. A six-year-old lie and a few months of scaremongering about Scotland cut through more than everything that *actually* happened in the last five years, Murdoch and Cameron got away with absolutely, literally everything and Labour will come under severe pressure to turn right again.

I cannot be optimistic about a country that voted for proto-fascist filth. By that I don't mean the Tories in general, however much I despise them. I mean *this* Tory party. We're on the brink of something all right; it certainly isn't "something special".

I keep trying to make light of it but totally agree, NonOxCol. Putting it mildly, I'm actually quite fearful for the country.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:29 am

HappyChickie wrote:Top of the day to you nesters, and what a glorious past few days it has been. F A N T A S T I C

Even the sun is shining on all those new Conservative MPs starting their new roles.

Wasn’t that election exciting? Full and proper majority Conservative government. Brilliant. Even better was the bloodbath that Labour took.

The educated and sane electorate had their say, and boy did they talk.

331 seats.

Bet you never saw that coming. Thought Labour had it the bag. LOL

I’ve had had the pleasure of watching you all shriek, holler and howl over various forums about how bad the Tories were and how they would take a beating and well gosh, I can almost feel your pain.

I’m enjoying it.

IDS is staying in his current role and it fills me with complete joy!

I don’t want to know the details of where the 12 billion in cuts are going to be, but the deserving underclass and those on the beg should brace themselves. IDS will take a chainsaw to welfare. Hard public sector cuts are around the corner too. Bring it on!

I also hope those who went door to door campaigning for Labour, distributing leaflets etc whilst say they are too sick to work are motivated to look for work.  Something for nothing has now come to an end. And I don’t think Maximus has any new openings. Just saying…

The envy of the world (NHS) will now be sold off and about time too. The haemorrhaging money pit is no longer fit for purpose, Labour saw to that with their PFI deals. It was easy for you lefties to demand more money for the NHS. It's not you who are going to end up paying for it.

We are onto 5 years of economic stability, Britain is open for business again, more money in our pockets and many tax cuts to come, for those of us who work that is.

Long may it continue and it will. I predict 500 seats for the Conservatives in 2020.

I’ll now leave you all in your cauldron of lunacy, but rest assured, I’ll be in the front row of that audience when the lefty orchestra is being conducted on CIF when you are all whipped into a frenzy over hard core Conservative policies. I expect there will be many encores.

One more thing before I go, I too left CIF because of the complete and utter rubbish many of you posted.

Have to run, work to do, and a life to lead.

I remain as always, a very HappyChickie.

PS – Rog you still owe me an apology.

Byeee !!!! don't the door slam your sociopathic right wing arse on the way out, it's just been painted.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:30 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Where Labour went wrong – and what we must do to put it right

http://gu.com/p/4895x

He's wasting no time this lad is he?
Really not keen on Umunna.

Interesting to see Blair's mug leering out from that piece. '"Labour must be the party of ambition as well as compassion" says shamless apologist for ruthless dictators who wouldn't know compassion if it dropped a 558mm white phosphorus artillery round on his bald patch'

That, my dear Sir, is a rather massive piece of Artillery ordnance...and White Phosphorus? You do know using that's against the Geneva Convention (well, using it as 'airburst', certainly) - oh, hang on - Tory Blur? Didn't he use/condone torture with his mate Dubya anyway?...but 558mm?

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:32 am

Oh look, a visit from a clone. Meh!

One more thing before I go, I too left CIF because of the complete and utter rubbish many of you posted.

Nope, you got your arse kicked off because the rules say no multi-Ids and no returnees, and you infringed both rules.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:41 am

For anyone who can put aside their concern for our society and others, this Parliament is going to provide some entertainment.

Watching the Tories face the results of their policies on the economy without being able to blame anyone else, Europe, and the mess their corrupt and lazy ministers will wreak, could almost be fun.

In Scotland, it already looks like Salmond & Sturgeons deal with the devil is faltering.
Yesterday's Sun editorial sneering that Cameron should make the SNP face the music was a little chilling. When the conned SNP-bandwagon voters wake up to what anyone else can see, again, it could be fun to watch if only people weren't going to suffer.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:44 am

yahyah wrote:For anyone who can put aside their concern for our society and others, this Parliament is going to provide some entertainment.

Watching the Tories face the results of their policies on the economy without being able to blame anyone else, Europe, and the mess their corrupt and lazy ministers will wreak, could almost be fun.

In Scotland, it already looks like Salmond & Sturgeons deal with the devil is faltering.
Yesterday's Sun editorial sneering that Cameron should make the SNP face the music was a little chilling. When the conned SNP-bandwagon voters wake up to what anyone else can see, again, it could be fun to watch if only people weren't going to suffer.

Quite - no mess like an old Etonian mess - Labour were just playing at it - Dodgy Dave has made a real (and unavoidable) mess!

TTFN

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:45 am

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Oh look, a visit from a clone. Meh!

It's just another

that got lost.

As for the BBC, I do get your points and I suppose I'm blaming the messenger.

Good morning, don't let the

get you down.

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:49 am

yahyah wrote:For anyone who can put aside their concern for our society and others, this Parliament is going to provide some entertainment.

Watching the Tories face the results of their policies on the economy without being able to blame anyone else, Europe, and the mess their corrupt and lazy ministers will wreak, could almost be fun.

In Scotland, it already looks like Salmond & Sturgeons deal with the devil is faltering.
Yesterday's Sun editorial sneering that Cameron should make the SNP face the music was a little chilling. When the conned SNP-bandwagon voters wake up to what anyone else can see, again, it could be fun to watch if only people weren't going to suffer.

I agree with that.

It's early days and the sociopaths are gloating (see above) but in time the Tories will have to deal with their own policy folly and the SNP, I think, have shot themselves in the foot.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:51 am

Swarthlander wrote:It's just another that got lost.

Another one? What gives you that strange idea.

My thoughts on the BBC were a little incoherent, stream of consciousness stuff really but I just think we need to think before doing something hasty. As it stands at the moment I don't use them for anything news-related, but so are the rest of the MSM; oddly Twitter and here are more than adequate for the time being.

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:54 am

TheGrimSqueaker wrote: Another one? What gives you that strange idea.

Ah! A split personality (I don't think that 'personality' is the right word though).

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 11 May, 2015 8:56 am

Morning All

Just to say I won't be around much for a while.

I know we truly do have a fight on our hands against Cameron and everything he stands for. But....

I simply have lots to do that was put on hold while campaigning (quite successfully actually) in Colne Valley and...

I hate leadership elections

See you soon everyone. Solidarity and love to you all, Paul.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:01 am

The right wing press are door stepping David Miliband and he will make a statement later in the day.

He isn't an MP.
Does anyone know whether Labour leader has to be an MP or are they just trying to wind people up ?

minch · Post by **minch** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:09 am

To try to cheer people up.
Fast forward 4.5 years.
The Conservatives will be having a leadership election while preparing for an election at the same time as (hopefully) their majority in the Commons will have been eroded away.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:10 am

File this one under "Alanis Morissette, this is ironic".

Last night the BAFTA TV Awards were announced. The Leading Actor award was won by Jason Watkins for his portrayal of Christopher Jefferies in The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies, which also picked up the best mini-series award; so, just three days after the Murdoch won his election, we were reminded of the ill that his papers did and the reasons why Leveson was needed.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:11 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning All

Just to say I won't be around much for a while.

I know we truly do have a fight on our hands against Cameron and everything he stands for. But....

I simply have lots to do that was put on hold while campaigning (quite successfully actually) in Colne Valley and...

I hate leadership elections

See you soon everyone. Solidarity and love to you all, Paul.

Take care Paul, I'll probably not be around as much (but will be popping in and out) as I've much to catch up on in the house, I've let things like cleaning behind the fridge slip rather badly, sad to say.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:16 am

The sun's shining here for the first time since Thursday too.

Lots of gardening to do. No point getting worked up about the leader vote until we see the full candidate list.

Maybe worth having a sticky thread as the candidates come forward so we can keep an ongoing record of biographies, voting records etc for them ?

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:19 am

It's 5 years to the day since Gordon Brown stood down.

@Paul - don't stay away too long !

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:20 am

yahyah wrote:The right wing press are door stepping David Miliband and he will make a statement later in the day.

He isn't an MP.
Does anyone know whether Labour leader has to be an MP or are they just trying to wind people up ?

He has to be an MP but can be if a safe seat suddenly comes up.

Apparently he is to make a 'statement' later today. Is he really that important?

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:21 am

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:File this one under "Alanis Morissette, this is ironic".

Last night the BAFTA TV Awards were announced. The Leading Actor award was won by Jason Watkins for his portrayal of Christopher Jefferies in The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies, which also picked up the best mini-series award; so, just three days after the Murdoch won his election, we were reminded of the ill that his papers did and the reasons why Leveson was needed.

Apparently Ant and Deck did well. A true reflection of British society?

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:22 am

Swarthlander wrote:
yahyah wrote:The right wing press are door stepping David Miliband and he will make a statement later in the day.

He isn't an MP.
Does anyone know whether Labour leader has to be an MP or are they just trying to wind people up ?
He has to be an MP but can be if a safe seat suddenly comes up.

Apparently he is to make a 'statement' later today. Is he really that important?

Only to the MSM.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:22 am

yahyah wrote:The sun's shining here for the first time since Thursday too.

Lots of gardening to do. No point getting worked up about the leader vote until we see the full candidate list.

Maybe worth having a sticky thread as the candidates come forward so we can keep an ongoing record of biographies, voting records etc for them ?

I've already started one in Features & Analysis thread - Liz Kendall is up, and I'll do the others as they declare if I get time

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:23 am

utopiandreams wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:Morning.

I have read the entire weekend thread on this forum, and taken on board many points. However, I'm afraid to say I feel the same way as adam and TSGO. In fact I've probably hardened since Friday. Go to the Guardian website and there's Mandelson and Umunna (and IDS!); listen to the BBC News and apparently Cameron is "going to restore fairness" to Britain. No really. A six-year-old lie and a few months of scaremongering about Scotland cut through more than everything that *actually* happened in the last five years, Murdoch and Cameron got away with absolutely, literally everything and Labour will come under severe pressure to turn right again.

I cannot be optimistic about a country that voted for proto-fascist filth. By that I don't mean the Tories in general, however much I despise them. I mean *this* Tory party. We're on the brink of something all right; it certainly isn't "something special".
I keep trying to make light of it but totally agree, NonOxCol. Putting it mildly, I'm actually quite fearful for the country.

As someone pointed out yesterday, Labour and the Libdems outnumber the Tories in the House of Lords. Hopefully some of the crossbenchers are quite sensible too. We may not be able to stop them, but we could slow them down.
For some perspective, the original narrative was that Labour would spend 10 years in the wilderness tearing themselves apart while the Tories romped home with a huge majority on the back of an economic recovery. That the right is so jubilant over such a small majority just shows how close Labour came to upsetting their plans.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:24 am

Swarthlander wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:File this one under "Alanis Morissette, this is ironic".

Last night the BAFTA TV Awards were announced. The Leading Actor award was won by Jason Watkins for his portrayal of Christopher Jefferies in The Lost Honour of Christopher Jefferies, which also picked up the best mini-series award; so, just three days after the Murdoch won his election, we were reminded of the ill that his papers did and the reasons why Leveson was needed.
Apparently Ant and Deck did well. A true reflection of British society?

When Watkins and that drama can win as well British society isn't totally beyond redemption. IMO etc .....

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:24 am

Simon Danczuk wants to be leader.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:28 am

Swarthlander wrote:Simon Danczuk wants to be leader.

Will Carswell object .... oh, you mean of the Labour Party? Delusional t**t.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:30 am

Getting the apathetic traditional Labour voters and those that have been drawn to UKIP would've tipped the balance. CU is not the person to attract them, ditto DM.

Things to look forward to in the not too distant future. Chilcott report release, Coulson trial, HRA abolished (humans don't need rights, right?), etc.

Can anyone please remind me what's the latest status regarding the NHS risk register?

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:31 am

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Swarthlander wrote:Simon Danczuk wants to be leader.
Will Carswell object .... oh, you mean of the Labour Party? Delusional t**t.

Where's that thank button when you need it.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:34 am

Willow904 wrote:... As someone pointed out yesterday, Labour and the Libdems outnumber the Tories in the House of Lords...

Yeah, I nearly responded,Willow, but the House of Commons may overrule the Lords, such as happened recently over one of George's wheezes: http://www.out-law.com/en/articles/2013 ... reholders/. I agree the numbers aren't particularly advantageous but wouldn't put anything beyond these charlatans when it comes to flouting accepted or due process.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:36 am

Willow904 wrote:
utopiandreams wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:Morning.

I have read the entire weekend thread on this forum, and taken on board many points. However, I'm afraid to say I feel the same way as adam and TSGO. In fact I've probably hardened since Friday. Go to the Guardian website and there's Mandelson and Umunna (and IDS!); listen to the BBC News and apparently Cameron is "going to restore fairness" to Britain. No really. A six-year-old lie and a few months of scaremongering about Scotland cut through more than everything that *actually* happened in the last five years, Murdoch and Cameron got away with absolutely, literally everything and Labour will come under severe pressure to turn right again.

I cannot be optimistic about a country that voted for proto-fascist filth. By that I don't mean the Tories in general, however much I despise them. I mean *this* Tory party. We're on the brink of something all right; it certainly isn't "something special".
I keep trying to make light of it but totally agree, NonOxCol. Putting it mildly, I'm actually quite fearful for the country.
As someone pointed out yesterday, Labour and the Libdems outnumber the Tories in the House of Lords. Hopefully some of the crossbenchers are quite sensible too. We may not be able to stop them, but we could slow them down.
For some perspective, the original narrative was that Labour would spend 10 years in the wilderness tearing themselves apart while the Tories romped home with a huge majority on the back of an economic recovery. That the right is so jubilant over such a small majority just shows how close Labour came to upsetting their plans.

But it's the damage they're going to do while they've got their majority, before any by-elections, that bothers me. The HoL never stopped the H&SC Act in 2012, did it? Or the welfare reforms? And when it tried, along came "financial privilege". I just think they are utter, shameless bastards, and their leader had a big enough ego even before he won a majority. I admit that anything short of my worst expectations will be a crumb of comfort, but the bigger picture remains horrific.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:41 am

Alastair Campbell ✔@campbellclaret
I see the arguments for quick leadership election but we will regret it @HarrietHarman is safe pair of hands. We need ideas debate

Alastair Campbell ✔@campbellclaret
The new MPs in particular should say at PLP meeting it is not yet about Who leads but why we lost and what we are. Can take time

Alastair Campbell ✔@campbellclaret
Last time Tories killed us with 'mess we inherited' as we elected leader. This time can be used differently to help us not them.

Like him or loathe him (and I tend to the former) he does have a way of cutting to the heart of things.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:43 am

NonOxCol wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
utopiandreams wrote: I keep trying to make light of it but totally agree, NonOxCol. Putting it mildly, I'm actually quite fearful for the country.
As someone pointed out yesterday, Labour and the Libdems outnumber the Tories in the House of Lords. Hopefully some of the crossbenchers are quite sensible too. We may not be able to stop them, but we could slow them down.
For some perspective, the original narrative was that Labour would spend 10 years in the wilderness tearing themselves apart while the Tories romped home with a huge majority on the back of an economic recovery. That the right is so jubilant over such a small majority just shows how close Labour came to upsetting their plans.
But it's the damage they're going to do while they've got their majority, before any by-elections, that bothers me. The HoL never stopped the H&SC Act in 2012, did it? Or the welfare reforms? And when it tried, along came "financial privilege". I just think they are utter, shameless bastards, and their leader had a big enough ego even before he won a majority. I admit that anything short of my worst expectations will be a crumb of comfort, but the bigger picture remains horrific.

No, because the likes of Shirley Williams acted as an enabler. Maybe now they can vote with their principles rather than for their vested interests.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:43 am

“The public feared Miliband/Salmond more than they feared a Tory majority. They are about to find out how wrong they were.”

One of the few times I agree with Ashdown.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:43 am

@Angry @pk1

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:45 am

minch wrote:A few quick observations.
1) The vote for Labour did not collapse – it went up by 1.5% and the Conservatives vote went up by 0.5%
2) The number of votes needed per seat for Conservatives and Labour changed. Labour used to need less votes per seat and now it needs more.
3) The real game changers were the drop in LD votes and the rise in UKIP votes. This altered how fairly stable votes for Labour and Conservatives were transformed into seats.

I think the 2010 boundary changes skewed things in the Tories' favour more than many people realised, hence their shock at not winning outright last time. Certainly when I looked at the new boundary for NE Somerset in 2010 my gut instinct was safe Tory seat, so the closeness between the Tories and Labour came as a bit of a pleasant surprise. It's a gutter that the 2015 result was such a huge majority for Rees-Mogg, but looking at the map that's actually what you'd expect. As you say, Labour and the Tories didn't really do anything but hold station, it was how things re-organised around them that dramatically changed the outcome. A Labour led government this time was always dependent on the Libdems holding onto a lot more seats than they did and thus denying the Tories, as it was clear Labour was still struggling to recover from its association with the global crash and I do believe only time can kill such associations, whatever people say about Labour "failing" to counter the Tory arguments about crashing the economy. The Tory lie mostly worked because people already instinctively felt it to be true anyway. The Tories are equally as vulnerable to such "events", however, and that's what provides hope.

Tonibel · Post by **Tonibel** » Mon 11 May, 2015 9:48 am

Swarthlander wrote:
yahyah wrote:The right wing press are door stepping David Miliband and he will make a statement later in the day.

He isn't an MP.
Does anyone know whether Labour leader has to be an MP or are they just trying to wind people up ?
He has to be an MP but can be if a safe seat suddenly comes up.

Apparently he is to make a 'statement' later today. Is he really that important?

I hope nobody who's just been elected in a safe seat agrees to stand down for him. That's really sticking two fingers up to their voters.