Tuesday 12th May 2015

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 12 May, 2015 8:40 pm

Tony2602 wrote:Hi Angry. Well, it wasn't easy. But like I said on Saturday, they're going on the list (when the shit hits the fan they'll be the first to come bitching to the union rep). All I could think of at the time was this:

And you know, I really think we're approaching that moment. God help us.

I'd either not see, or forgotten that, you're right it is very scary.

Post by **refitman** » Tue 12 May, 2015 8:45 pm

Drum roll please...

The Thanks button is back (the counters have been reset though).

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 12 May, 2015 8:46 pm

Who'da thought that Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP).would fall over on the other side of the pond ?
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015 ... enate-vote

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 12 May, 2015 8:47 pm

refitman wrote:Drum roll please...

The Thanks button is back (the counters have been reset though).

My near 3k (given) thanks have all gone away - have to start all over again - have a THANKS! from me

Post by **refitman** » Tue 12 May, 2015 8:47 pm

@ephe - good night.

ChrisDean · Post by **ChrisDean** » Tue 12 May, 2015 8:51 pm

Hello again.

I know I seldom post, but I am here on a daily basis, and I read and appreciate all of your posts; they give me food for thought. I will continue to do so. I confess that I am one of those whose reaction re the EU Referendum is to vote "anti Dave" but there is a while to go yet and I will, maybe, change my mind as the anger and disappointment subsides.

Today I've been for a ride around the Forest viewing the bluebells; tomorrow my sister-in-law is bringing a group of elderly people up from Penarth on a "bluebell run" and my husband will join the coach to guide the driver and we needed to plan a route that would give them the best views.

Bluebells, beech, beauty, healing.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 12 May, 2015 8:54 pm

I voted in the orginal EU referendum. I voted no...

I remember our trading partners - the colonies, Australia, NZ etc, were not happy with us because basically we left them in the lurch, and whereas when shopping we could buy their butter, cheese and lots of other foodstuffs dead cheap, the minute we went into Europe prices shot up... I remember my mother's dismay at the cost of a lump of cheese.
You could also get Argentinian beef which was affordable even though we were always on the low end of the income scale.
That ended too.

There were weeks and weeks of arguments on the TV, a lot of which went over most people's heads including mine. And few of us realised food prices would go up so much.

I voted no because I thought we'd lose our indentity and our Britishness. Which I think was what happened. English wartime sausages having to comply with EU regulations is still a sore point for me.

Now I would vote to stay in, purely because we are so intertwined in trade that I think it would be extremely foolish to come out.

Thankfully NZ and Aust and the other countries we'd left in the lurch found other markets. Again I remember my mother saying she felt guilty about it because of the support they'd given us during the war.

Since then I've read about the origins of the European Union. Its original aim was to forge a strong trading union which would prevent any more wars but I don't think they envisaged so many countries being let in. It's grown rather unwieldy.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 12 May, 2015 8:58 pm

If we leave Europe we are toast.

Tony2602 · Post by **Tony2602** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:00 pm

"English wartime sausages having to comply with EU regulations is still a sore point for me."

Hi Ohso. Didn't I read somewhere the things were 98% breadcrumbs? I'd have thought that foreign muck would have been an improvement!

(NB - got some fat Lincolnshires on the pan for whoever wants one)

Tony2602 · Post by **Tony2602** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:00 pm

"English wartime sausages having to comply with EU regulations is still a sore point for me."

Hi Ohso. Didn't I read somewhere the things were 98% breadcrumbs? I'd have thought that foreign muck would have been an improvement!

(NB - got some fat Lincolnshires on the pan for whoever wants one)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:00 pm

Thanks Dan. You're a star.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:02 pm

Tony2602 wrote:"English wartime sausages having to comply with EU regulations is still a sore point for me."

Hi Ohso. Didn't I read somewhere the things were 98% breadcrumbs? I'd have thought that foreign muck would have been an improvement!

(NB - got some fat Lincolnshires on the pan for whoever wants one)

They were. I loved them. They had a lot of water too. No gentle spitting or sizzling when they went into the pan. They used to explode and shower you with hot fat if you stood too near...I bloody loved them with mash and fried onions.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:02 pm

Spam. Didn't finish paying the bill for it til 2006.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:05 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Tony2602 wrote:"English wartime sausages having to comply with EU regulations is still a sore point for me."

Hi Ohso. Didn't I read somewhere the things were 98% breadcrumbs? I'd have thought that foreign muck would have been an improvement!

(NB - got some fat Lincolnshires on the pan for whoever wants one)
They were. I loved them. They had a lot of water too. No gentle spitting or sizzling when they went into the pan. They used to explode and shower you with hot fat if you stood too near...I bloody loved them with mash and fried onions.

For some reason I heard you say that in the voice of leanne wood.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:08 pm

Goodnight, everyone.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:10 pm

ohsocynical wrote:I voted in the orginal EU referendum. I voted no...

I remember our trading partners - the colonies, Australia, NZ etc, were not happy with us because basically we left them in the lurch, and whereas when shopping we could buy their butter, cheese and lots of other foodstuffs dead cheap, the minute we went into Europe prices shot up... I remember my mother's dismay at the cost of a lump of cheese.
You could also get Argentinian beef which was affordable even though we were always on the low end of the income scale.
That ended too.

There were weeks and weeks of arguments on the TV, a lot of which went over most people's heads including mine. And few of us realised food prices would go up so much.

I voted no because I thought we'd lose our indentity and our Britishness. Which I think was what happened. English wartime sausages having to comply with EU regulations is still a sore point for me.

Now I would vote to stay in, purely because we are so intertwined in trade that I think it would be extremely foolish to come out.

Thankfully NZ and Aust and the other countries we'd left in the lurch found other markets. Again I remember my mother saying she felt guilty about it because of the support they'd given us during the war.

Since then I've read about the origins of the European Union. Its original aim was to forge a strong trading union which would prevent any more wars but I don't think they envisaged so many countries being let in. It's grown rather unwieldy.

I remember a food price hike when we changed to decimal as shops rounded up rather than down, but not so much when we joined. I do remember a wider range of food in the shops gradually coming in.
Did we stop trade with other countries? I know we still had NZ lamb on Sundays quite regularly (my Dad's favourite)

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:12 pm

one-pound-is-a-hundred-new-pennies-a-hundred-new-pence-to-the-pound

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:12 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Spam. Didn't finish paying the bill for it til 2006.

The War debt ? The one that crazy big spender Gordon Brown paid off?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:13 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:Spam. Didn't finish paying the bill for it til 2006.
The War debt ? The one that crazy big spender Gordon Brown paid off?

That's the one.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:14 pm

Tony2602 wrote:Hi Angry. Well, it wasn't easy. But like I said on Saturday, they're going on the list (when the shit hits the fan they'll be the first to come bitching to the union rep). All I could think of at the time was this:

And you know, I really think we're approaching that moment. God help us.

Not just me who hears this every time Odious speaks then?

The sun on the meadow is summery warm.
The stag in the forest runs free.
But gather together to greet the storm.
Tomorrow belongs to me.

Night Ephe. Night all.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:15 pm

PorFavor wrote:Goodnight, everyone.

Good night PF

well

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:16 pm

Re the EU.

It would never surprise me that the dopey public got it wrong again and voted out but I do hope I'm wrong.
We're buggered anyway, so it will only cross the t's and dot the i's of what was put in motion five years ago.

I am wondering what big business would make of it if we came out. From what I've read and that includes HSBC, they think we're better staying in, which I suppose means they can make more money.

Considering Multi-nationals have poured millions into the Cons pockets to keep them in power, how ironic if we do pull out.

Sorry. But if I'm still alive to see it, I shall laugh. A lot.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:17 pm

Labour left seek to run candidate in leadership election
Jon Trickett and Ian Lavery are the two leading contenders to represent the left in the contest.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... p-election

and BTL is this comment:

Adam Carter • 2 hours ago
How disappointing that the Left candidates are unknown.
The top of the Labour Party, and the prominent figures, seem to be metro-smoothies.
I was a huge fan of Tony Benn, but must also give credit to Wilson and Callaghan as leaders that allowed Benn to maintain prominence.
I am extremely Right-wing, but I have much more respect for Left-wingers than I have for triangulating smoothies, which is what the Labour Party seems to have now.
I think Mandelson, and his ideas, and Blair and his undoubted election-winning ability, have ruined Labour.

'Triangulating smoothie' is now forever in my mental dictionary ... political frothy drink that costs a lot?

Tin foil hat moment ... is he just saying all this so we pick the 'wrong' candidate - i.e. the one the extremely Right-wing secretly want us to have?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:18 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:If we leave Europe we are toast.
But at least we won't be French Toast!

Laynd of howp and gloooreeeee....

Boom! boom!

ChrisDean · Post by **ChrisDean** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:19 pm

Nostalgia is creeping up on me now.

The Home & Colonial Stores....I vividly remember the one in Monmouth with its' highly polished brass setting in the window ledge!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:21 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:I voted in the orginal EU referendum. I voted no...

I remember our trading partners - the colonies, Australia, NZ etc, were not happy with us because basically we left them in the lurch, and whereas when shopping we could buy their butter, cheese and lots of other foodstuffs dead cheap, the minute we went into Europe prices shot up... I remember my mother's dismay at the cost of a lump of cheese.
You could also get Argentinian beef which was affordable even though we were always on the low end of the income scale.
That ended too.

There were weeks and weeks of arguments on the TV, a lot of which went over most people's heads including mine. And few of us realised food prices would go up so much.

I voted no because I thought we'd lose our indentity and our Britishness. Which I think was what happened. English wartime sausages having to comply with EU regulations is still a sore point for me.

Now I would vote to stay in, purely because we are so intertwined in trade that I think it would be extremely foolish to come out.

Thankfully NZ and Aust and the other countries we'd left in the lurch found other markets. Again I remember my mother saying she felt guilty about it because of the support they'd given us during the war.

Since then I've read about the origins of the European Union. Its original aim was to forge a strong trading union which would prevent any more wars but I don't think they envisaged so many countries being let in. It's grown rather unwieldy.
I remember a food price hike when we changed to decimal as shops rounded up rather than down, but not so much when we joined. I do remember a wider range of food in the shops gradually coming in.
Did we stop trade with other countries? I know we still had NZ lamb on Sundays quite regularly (my Dad's favourite)

Mum liked Anchor butter and breathed a sigh of relief that you could still get it, but prices did shoot up. Cheese in particular which was a staple in our house. My dad had bread and cheese for suppoer every day of his life.
Mum wasn't keen on 'foreign' food as in French produce.

And we did miss he Argentinian beef.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:33 pm

Yvette Cooper set to announce bid for Labour leadership http://ind.pn/1QGuiRL

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:35 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:Spam. Didn't finish paying the bill for it til 2006.
The War debt ? The one that crazy big spender Gordon Brown paid off?

Oh lord - now I've got a soundtrack of Shirley Bassey and a visual of Gordy sashaying about and dipping the hip in an enticing manner.

Edited to take out the comma. Can't have an unnecessary comma when PF's about.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:36 pm

Labour shelves plans to complete leadership election by summer
Contest timetable extended after union leaders admit to needing more time to recruit political levy payers to register as party supporters – and so have a vote

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... evt-payers

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:46 pm

Seen a tweet (and lost it) saying Ian Lavery might stand

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:50 pm

PorFavor wrote:Goodnight, everyone.

Night PF

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:53 pm

Greens blame Tory majority on Labour's willingness to "accept the narrative of its opponents"
The Green party's economic spokesperson reflects on Labour and the media's pandering to the the Tory narrative.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... -opponents

Apologies if we've already had this link posted. Ignore the headline which doesn't reflect most of the content ... it's a good piece - pretty spot on analysis of Crosby's strategy and tactics I believe. And something to be ever alert for over the coming 5 years (or less I hope).

My sister said to me - whatever you think of his methods you've got to admit that Crosby ran a blinding campaign. Yup.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:54 pm

The Meh Office retweeted
David Schneider ‏@davidschneider · May 11
Lord Sugar to rejoin Labour on Friday under Farage rules.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Tue 12 May, 2015 9:59 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Labour shelves plans to complete leadership election by summer
Contest timetable extended after union leaders admit to needing more time to recruit political levy payers to register as party supporters – and so have a vote

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... evt-payers

FFS.

Why are we pandering to the Unions. If they haven't got it sorted tough.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 12 May, 2015 10:00 pm

I think I might just go on a thanks binge.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 12 May, 2015 10:01 pm

Douglas Carswell refuses to endorse Nigel Farage's return as Ukip leader
The indy seem to think he is on his way back to the torys

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 43074.html#

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 12 May, 2015 10:02 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:I think I might just go on a thanks binge.

Ha! I'm up to 20 already ....nanana

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 12 May, 2015 10:03 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Labour shelves plans to complete leadership election by summer
Contest timetable extended after union leaders admit to needing more time to recruit political levy payers to register as party supporters – and so have a vote

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... evt-payers
FFS.

Why are we pandering to the Unions. If they haven't got it sorted tough.

Quite. Seems daft to me.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 12 May, 2015 10:03 pm

Paul Convery ‏@Paul_Convery 44m44 minutes ago
Today, my household has received 3 calls from Unite phonebank subtly exploring Sadiq Khan support: "He's the son of a bus driver" I'm told.

thatchersorphan · Post by **thatchersorphan** » Tue 12 May, 2015 10:04 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Anyone else hear the news today that detainees - immigrants waiting to hear if they can stay in the UK or not - are now being employed / working in record numbers in the secure centres they are held in ... for £1 an hour? The number working in centres run by Serco has gone up by over 50% since 2011 and another private firm (can't remember which) by 20%. Of course, the firms insist they are not replacing paid 'professional' staff. Do we believe that? I don't. These detainees, who have committed no crime, are doing the cooking, cleaning etc - and the firms are maximising their profits. Surely it's illegal for people to work and be paid less than the minimum wage?

Its not new, see: http://www.corporatewatch.org/news/2015 ... jobs-legal

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 12 May, 2015 10:04 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Paul Convery ‏@Paul_Convery 44m44 minutes ago
Today, my household has received 3 calls from Unite phonebank subtly exploring Sadiq Khan support: "He's the son of a bus driver" I'm told.

I've asked him is it for mayor or leader - no reply

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 12 May, 2015 10:04 pm

Rhubarb crumble jes' out
who wants double-cream
who wants vanilla ice cream

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 12 May, 2015 10:05 pm

goodnight, Ephemerid!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 12 May, 2015 10:07 pm

Thank you for the thanks button, refitman!

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 12 May, 2015 10:07 pm

thatchersorphan wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Anyone else hear the news today that detainees - immigrants waiting to hear if they can stay in the UK or not - are now being employed / working in record numbers in the secure centres they are held in ... for £1 an hour? The number working in centres run by Serco has gone up by over 50% since 2011 and another private firm (can't remember which) by 20%. Of course, the firms insist they are not replacing paid 'professional' staff. Do we believe that? I don't. These detainees, who have committed no crime, are doing the cooking, cleaning etc - and the firms are maximising their profits. Surely it's illegal for people to work and be paid less than the minimum wage?

Its not new, see: http://www.corporatewatch.org/news/2015 ... jobs-legal

Thanks I missed RR's post on that. I do remember seeing this late last year - they really are appalling.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 12 May, 2015 10:13 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
thatchersorphan wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Anyone else hear the news today that detainees - immigrants waiting to hear if they can stay in the UK or not - are now being employed / working in record numbers in the secure centres they are held in ... for £1 an hour? The number working in centres run by Serco has gone up by over 50% since 2011 and another private firm (can't remember which) by 20%. Of course, the firms insist they are not replacing paid 'professional' staff. Do we believe that? I don't. These detainees, who have committed no crime, are doing the cooking, cleaning etc - and the firms are maximising their profits. Surely it's illegal for people to work and be paid less than the minimum wage?

Its not new, see: http://www.corporatewatch.org/news/2015 ... jobs-legal
Thanks I missed RR's post on that. I do remember seeing this late last year - they really are appalling.

Having read that corporate watch link now ... I can really see why they so badly want to get rid of the Human Rights Act.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 12 May, 2015 10:16 pm

Catalogue of failings at Bracknell care home

A care home has been plunged into further disrepute after it received a damning inspection report from a healthcare watchdog.

See more at:

http://www.bracknellnews.co.uk/news/bra ... FCpdj.dpuf

PK might remember I posted about an incident at this home some months ago.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 12 May, 2015 10:19 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Labour shelves plans to complete leadership election by summer
Contest timetable extended after union leaders admit to needing more time to recruit political levy payers to register as party supporters – and so have a vote

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... evt-payers
FFS.

Why are we pandering to the Unions. If they haven't got it sorted tough.

Don't often disagree with you, but may do so here.

We shouldn't fight the last war and presume just because a short leadership campaign would have suited Labour in 2010 it would do so now - the political circumstances are different and nobody expected our result to be this bad (whereas it was at the high end of expectations then)

The party needs to have a proper and frank debate, with as many involved as possible (if any Labour people on here haven't already joined the party, DO SO!)

Not to mention that this time round it is the Blairites who want it all over quickly in the hope of bouncing Chuka on us

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 12 May, 2015 10:21 pm

: Words Fail.jpg (54.28 KiB) Viewed 8454 times

Mike Gapes retweeted
Robbie Travers ‏@RobbieTravers 2h2 hours ago
From the geniuses who brought you "Vote #SNP for a #Labour," comes "Vote Yes to leave the EU, for indyref two."

Correction: It's going to be worse, far worse, than either the AV referendum or the Indy referendum. That tactic takes some beating for duh stakes.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 12 May, 2015 10:23 pm

@citizenJA

That's your best avatar yet, citizen. Brill.