Wednesday 13th May

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mikems
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by mikems »

Where's that noisy band of freedom lovers that harried the last Labour government out of office, now that the HRA is to be abolished, strikes outlawed, FOI swept aside...
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Willow904 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
mikems wrote:Good to see the 'Save the HRA' petition grow so quickly. That's the way through this : popular opposition to the government.
Which they will just ignore, I'm sorry to say.
Pressure and petitions need to be focused on the waverers, potential Tory rebels. This government is vile and extremely right-wing, but there are a lot of Tory MPs and they're not all carbon copies of each other. At least some of them will have more moderate views. Those with moderate views in marginals with small majorities in particular could be swayed by protests and letters from their constituents (not my MP Rees-Mogg, obviously). 38% are quite good at organising this kind of constituency protest so may be worth joining for anyone who wants to get involved, especially as they manage to remain non-partisan so have more clout as the "voice" of ordinary voters.
Agree with this - and lets remember that the *government* majority in the new HoC is tiny - much lower than before last week.
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ephemerid
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by ephemerid »

mikems wrote:Good to see the 'Save the HRA' petition grow so quickly. That's the way through this : popular opposition to the government.

I hope you're right - popular opposition in the form of petitions doesn't fill me with confidence that anything will be done, though.

How many petitions has this bunch of Tories ignored over the past 5 years? The promise was that any petition with 100,000 or more signatories would be debated in the House; the first big one I can think of was a request to do an impact assessment on benefit changes.
I can't remember if it was ever debated formally or if it was talked about as part of another session.
Whatever - it was judged too difficult to do, so it didn't happen. The JRF didn't encounter any difficulty so they did one - which was dismissed as the rantings of a left-leaning charity which shouldn't involve itself in policy.

Of course, another form of popular opposition is public protest...ah, They're dealing with that as above.

I am very concerned about this. I think that if this speech of Cameron's really signifies his intentions it will stifle dissent, however much he drones on about free speech; it's inevitable that people will continue to protest, that's what they do when new laws are brought in to crush unions and impoverish people - and it's inevitable that if the police or whoever are going to carry on kettling and whatnot people will react. Riots will happen.
Having witnessed several and having been in a place where I helped to patch people up in the aftermath, I'd rather not see them happen again; people get badly hurt, some even get killed, it's just awful. But what was reported today, if Cameron is serious and these things become law, there will be trouble.

Some people have been protesting peacefully for 5 years. Their actions don't get reported.
Remember the 50,000 protesters who marched in Manchester in 2013 and rallied in front of the venue of the Tory party conference? That was barely reported. I recall watching the News on the BBC and Norman Smith was standing in front of this mass of people droning on about what was happening in the hall and ignoring what was going on behind him.
It happened on the same day that 2 veteran Fusiliers were ejected from the conference for heckling Hammond on defence cuts.

I don't know. I'm just worried, that's all.
"Poverty is the worst form of violence" - Mahatma Gandhi
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by rebeccariots2 »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Hopi Sen ‏@hopisen 11h11 hours ago
New post: Liz Kendall for Prime Minister http://wp.me/p1Vf1s-1Hf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hopi is a Blairite (I like him nonetheless) but I am keeping an open mind about her - she has been impressive in the last few days.
Yes. I posted the link to it because it seemed like a fairly honest (in owning to his proclivities and acceptance that she may not get chosen and / or he might be wrong!) and reasoned approach. Whatever else he's not being lukewarm about her - he's clearly committed to his support. Trouble is ... there's almost no opportunity for us grassroots plebs to observe these candidates in the kind of settings that he describes as the turning point for him. We will have to make do with the short snippets and media filtered stuff of the leadership campaign itself.
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Petitions and venting on social media aren't enough on their own, no.

That article by Tom Baldwin on the BBC and how they helped win it for Hamface is very good, btw. Worth breaking my post election self-denying ordinance on the MSM to read :)
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yahyah
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by yahyah »

mikems wrote:Where's that noisy band of freedom lovers that harried the last Labour government out of office, now that the HRA is to be abolished, strikes outlawed, FOI swept aside...

Henry Porter's been silent since May 8th.

https://twitter.com/HenryCPorter/with_replies" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by PorFavor »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote: Which they will just ignore, I'm sorry to say.
Pressure and petitions need to be focused on the waverers, potential Tory rebels. This government is vile and extremely right-wing, but there are a lot of Tory MPs and they're not all carbon copies of each other. At least some of them will have more moderate views. Those with moderate views in marginals with small majorities in particular could be swayed by protests and letters from their constituents (not my MP Rees-Mogg, obviously). 38% are quite good at organising this kind of constituency protest so may be worth joining for anyone who wants to get involved, especially as they manage to remain non-partisan so have more clout as the "voice" of ordinary voters.
Agree with this - and lets remember that the *government* majority in the new HoC is tiny - much lower than before last week.
I'm not saying that it's not worth protesting - I'm just saying that I doubt very much that any protest will be heeded. It will, I think, take a while into this Parliament for the government to, perhaps, lose its arrogant euphoria and feel that it has to heed anyone else. Meanwhile, the damage that they can, and will, do is potentially enormous.

I don't deny that they should be challenged. In fact, it's absolutely imperative that they should be.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Beth Rigby retweeted
Rupert Murdoch ‏@rupertmurdoch 15m15 minutes ago
Now time for UK to deregulate and lead world with strong growth in jobs and pay. World flush with new money going nowhere but dead assets.
There is no emoticon to properly express the level of fury I feel about that person declaring what the UK should do ...
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by yahyah »

Just reading the Baldwin link about the BBC.

''BBC executives and journalists have told me that there were regular, repeated threats from senior Tories during this election campaign about “what would happen afterwards” if they did not do as they were told and fall into line.''

It would be nice to know who those senior Tories are.

Also, there must be an element of fear for a lot of journalists.
If a career move depends on being employed by the Murdoch press, words of truth they've written before will count against them. Would like to think I'd rather starve than work for Murdoch or Dacre, but if you have a family to feed scruples can go by the wayside.
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ephemerid
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by ephemerid »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Rob Merrick ‏@Rob_Merrick 2h2 hours ago
Citizen's Advice on extension of Universal Credit to couples & families (in FT): "It is pushing people on low incomes into abject hardship"

This really annoys me - CAB have been saying this for a few years, but nobody took any notice.

They published a guide for UC a few years ago, highlighting exactly this.

They did a series of case studies - one of them used the example of a couple, one a pensioner, the other on ESA, plus Housing Benefit.
That couple had a pension/benefit income of about £200PW with rent and council tax paid in full.
They would lose £80 a week under UC and have to pay some rent.

It's situations like this that have either not been thought through (eg. the constant mantra from the Tories that pensioners will be looked after etc.) or they have thought it through and people like this imaginary couple can be ignored however many there are.

For working couples - which I think that article is about, but I can't read it, paywall - it's also grim because the whole premise of UC is the behavioural change thing. People MUST look for more or better work to get off UC altogether.
The jobcentre decides what "better" means, so until you are earning enough not to need UC you will still be expected to look for work even if you're already working full-time. The sanctions are the same as for JSA, but the scope is wider.
On top of that, only one UC claim is allowed per household, so get a sanction and the whole claim gets stopped including HB.

Those of us who have read the guidance as it gets published have been warning about this for a long time. Journalists are only just beginning to catch up with campaigners and charities.

I knew, charities knew, campaigners knew, advice workers knew - but the MSM didn't. Or chose not to report it.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Ian Dunt retweeted
Alan Travis ‏@alantravis40 12m12 minutes ago
UK is being asked to take 2,309 Med refugees of the 20,000 nominated by UN but Theresa May has rejected this....
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mikems
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by mikems »

I agree they will ignore the petition, but if we were really terminally beaten, so many people would not have signed it. It's a sign that a lot of people are still full of fight and haven't taken more than a few days to get back to some sort of balance again.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

mikems wrote:I agree they will ignore the petition, but if we were really terminally beaten, so many people would not have signed it. It's a sign that a lot of people are still full of fight and haven't taken more than a few days to get back to some sort of balance again.
Another sign is Labour membership being over 20k up since election day - and that's even before there is the rush of "opted in" union members.

No wonder that some desperate Blairites want the old leadership rules revived (less than zero chance)
Last edited by AnatolyKasparov on Wed 13 May, 2015 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ephemerid
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by ephemerid »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Ian Dunt retweeted
Alan Travis ‏@alantravis40 12m12 minutes ago
UK is being asked to take 2,309 Med refugees of the 20,000 nominated by UN but Theresa May has rejected this....
FFS. :fire: :fire: :fire: :fire: :fire:

I'm so angry about this. We took just a handful of Syrian refugees, and now this. I am ashamed of this country.
"Poverty is the worst form of violence" - Mahatma Gandhi
yahyah
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by yahyah »

Still haven't seen anything in the media with results of the 'do you regret who you voted for ?' question from YouGov in their survey the other day.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Anecdotally again, when asking people why they voted Tory they've said SNP and Labour together scared them.

When asked which Tory policies they thought were good and worth voting for there's a deafening silence.
That is certainly depressing, but also in its way encouraging. This isn't the 1980s when Thatcher was genuinely (and infuriatingly) popular.
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mikems
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by mikems »

The people have been conned. The question is whether they can be kept conned in the teeth of reality.
yahyah
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by yahyah »

Cameron, reported to be going to say later today:

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'.

Have to say I've not been one of those who get that hung up on the more notional edge of civil liberties, but that sounds decidedly odd. Maybe just out of context, hopefully so,
seeingclearly
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by seeingclearly »

mikems wrote:Here's a petition to oppose scrapping the Human Rights Act.

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/ ... ket=blast2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As regards fascism : they want to effectively ban trade unions, but they can't because of our international commitments (already in breach of the ILO since the 1980s) can't be entirely dropped without becoming a pariah state. So they do it bit by bit to make sure unions cannot operate effectively at all. It's crypto-fascism, in that they are not brave enough (yet) to come out and say what they really want - to ban trade unions and kill worker rights.
Here's a slightly old blog link (April) that sort of ties into your posts today.

Workfare, Forced Labour and the new 'Business and Community Wardens'.
(Well we knew it was happening, but I've never seen anything that followed it up before.)

http://www.petethetemp.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I must have caught your thought about the Morning Star. I love that it's little, brief and to the point, and free of bile. I read an article by John McDonnell very early this a.m. and he was talking about it's not the leaders we should be thinking of but building a movement from the bottom, and it occurred to me that Ed had in fact already done that, I'm mostly housebound and bed bound and rotten on the phone so have never felt up to the challenge of electioneering, but can't say there weren't plenty of opportunities for involvement both here and in neighbouring constituencies. It may not cover everywhere but a similar strategy would complete it. This led me to the ever present issue of narrative and the need not just for counter narrative but a proper left wing narrative independent from reaction to the usual media sources, and how the morning stR would be perfect for that. Well, I've no idea how it could be achieved, but that's what I'd like to see, open journalism with no spin but plenty of attention to honesty and information rather than wall to a wall commentary. I'd like it to become a go to place if you really want to know what's actually going on. Sure it would have to let some writers in, there no lack f good ones, but I'd like some of those to be in print not just online.

Anyway, I did a lot of thinking around stuff like that and why we have unions and what we need them to do now, and a bit of research and found that people without work can still join unite, which I hadn't known, and thought wouldn't it be great if .............. Well I'm fed up of this working families shit, I've got an intelligent talented almost 25 year old 'languishing' in mental desperation for lack of work and an independent life, and I want some real solutions for him and his peers. So I'm too of the belief that the bottom needs Labour to be a movement again, and actually if Ed could get his posh clobber off, there could be a real role there for him alongside som of the old stalwarts.

I am of course grinding my teeth over the reappearance of the grisly ones but it was the hubris of the 'right brother' that really got me. OBMs piece, I think (?) on why we shouldn't support Umunna is spot on. What I'd like to see go out in print.

On a potential move to a tent in Hull: London are moving poorer Londoners to Birmingham and offering relocation 'bribes' to do so. The Birmingham private rental market is well sewn up because of a huge and very lucrative student accommodation market, and insurers won't insure BTL landlord who take anyone on benefits which means anyone old or sick, etc, etc......... And there's the uniform benefit cap ...... The uniform rate now set at £350 pm 100 squid less than current LHA, and at least 200 squid short of the cheapest one bed flats that will take people on HB. So...


Ephemerid, on reflection I think we'll need on of those bloody great marquee jobs, do you think A&E would loan us some of those silvery emergency blankets and stand us for a portaloo? Nononooo, I won't give up my pension and manage the bloody thing for a quid an hour. No, not even for 24 hour A&E cover and right to die paperwork, who do they think I am, some old banger......... Ok, ok I'm hearing you now, they will take ALL of our incomes away and we'll ALL be.on a pound an hour! Look, no deal, we just wanted a portaloo not to join serco, and, yes, I do know bloody occupy did it for months for free.......... I DONT CARE IF IT TICKS ALL THEIR BOXES........
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by StephenDolan »

yahyah wrote:Still haven't seen anything in the media with results of the 'do you regret who you voted for ?' question from YouGov in their survey the other day.
No, me neither, I'm wondering if this poll was commissioned by a party?
yahyah
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by yahyah »

StephenDolan wrote:
yahyah wrote:Still haven't seen anything in the media with results of the 'do you regret who you voted for ?' question from YouGov in their survey the other day.
No, me neither, I'm wondering if this poll was commissioned by a party?

The Tories ?

If it had been Labour or the Lib Dems, and it was negative for the Tories or the SNP, they would have reason to get it released to the media.
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

yahyah wrote:Cameron, reported to be going to say later today:

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'.

Have to say I've not been one of those who get that hung up on the more notional edge of civil liberties, but that sounds decidedly odd. Maybe just out of context, hopefully so,
Only one possible response to Cameron's statement.

[youtube]BO8EpfyCG2Y[/youtube]
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PorFavor
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by PorFavor »

yahyah wrote:Cameron, reported to be going to say later today:

"For too long, we have been a passively tolerant society, saying to our citizens 'as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone'.

Have to say I've not been one of those who get that hung up on the more notional edge of civil liberties, but that sounds decidedly odd. Maybe just out of context, hopefully so,
Very sinister at worst or badly phrased at best (David Cameron - not you).

He (DC) implies that there will be some sort of sub-strata of ever-mutating law - we can't know what it is but we'll know if we break it. Whatever it is. An extension of what already happens in some terrorist suspect cases so it will not be setting a precedent, should it happen.

Have you any idea what time the oracle will be speaking, please?
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by Willow904 »

yahyah wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
yahyah wrote:Still haven't seen anything in the media with results of the 'do you regret who you voted for ?' question from YouGov in their survey the other day.
No, me neither, I'm wondering if this poll was commissioned by a party?

The Tories ?

If it had been Labour or the Lib Dems, and it was negative for the Tories or the SNP, they would have reason to get it released to the media.
I'm not entirely convinced by that. If Labour or the Libdems found out why people moved to the Tories that gives them some clues as to how to win those people back, I'm not sure they'd want to share that info with the enemy.

I did an election post-mortem survey for Yougov this morning. I was asked to list parties in order of voting preference. I had great pleasure in putting even Ukip in front of the Tories who I put dead last. I'm not going to give them any useful information, but anyone who listed Labour and Tories side by side near the top of the order may give some clues to the thinking of those able to swing between either.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by tinybgoat »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Beth Rigby retweeted
Rupert Murdoch ‏@rupertmurdoch 15m15 minutes ago
Now time for UK to deregulate and lead world with strong growth in jobs and pay. World flush with new money going nowhere but dead assets.
There is no emoticon to properly express the level of fury I feel about that person declaring what the UK should do ...
how about:
‹^› ‹(•¿•)› ‹^› (8-[
(suspect nowhere near strong enough)
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by AngryAsWell »

Labour already have a ground swell movement from the ground up, I have mentioned it before, its call Movement for Change, and has been up and running since Ed became leader.
http://www.movementforchange.org.uk/our_story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not sure why all these "we need to get back in touch with the people" Labour bods coming out of the cupboard in the press ignore it. If they are genuine in what they say why on earth aren't they promoting it?

Movement for Change Facts

Movement for Change is a membership organisation founded in 2010.
We use the power of Community Organising to make change happen.
Our professional Community Organisers work in communities across England, Scotland and Wales.
To date, we have trained more than 2,000 people in local communities across the UK and abroad, to take action on issues that matter to them.
Movement for Change activists have run award-winning campaigns on issues as varied as access to fair credit, the Living Wage and improving bus services.
Movement for Change has a National Committee that is the democratic body of the organisation, elected annually from among our membership at our Annual General Meeting.
Movement for Change is registered as a limited company and is further registered with the Electoral Commission.

Your signing up for membership implies agreement with the following statement:
I support the aims, values and objectives of the Labour Party. I confirm that I am not a member of any political party other than Labour and Co-operative parties.
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Tizme1
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by Tizme1 »

ephemerid wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Ian Dunt retweeted
Alan Travis ‏@alantravis40 12m12 minutes ago
UK is being asked to take 2,309 Med refugees of the 20,000 nominated by UN but Theresa May has rejected this....
FFS. :fire: :fire: :fire: :fire: :fire:

I'm so angry about this. We took just a handful of Syrian refugees, and now this. I am ashamed of this country.
Greetings all,

I think I mentioned that during the election campaign, there was a question asked at one of the hustings that caused me to appreciate the response of Rich Harrington. I commented on it to him in an email as follows;

After Nick made his comment about the boats should be turned back, you said you would not and could not be part of any government that sent people back to their certain deaths. It just so happened you were the first candidate to reply after Nick, if it had been one of the other candidates, they would hopefully have made a similar comment. However, it was you and you said what absolutely needed to be said

He replied to me saying he appreciated my comment. So today I've sent him a further email as below;

I find this rather worrying. Do you care to comment?

Regards,




Theresa May suggests migrants rescued in the Mediterranean should be forcibly returned

In an article in the Times (paywall) Theresa May, the home secretary, suggests that economic migrants rescued in the Mediterranean should be forcibly returned. Here’s the key quote.

I disagree with the suggestion by the EU’s high representative Federica Mogherini that ‘no migrants’ intercepted at sea should be ‘sent back against their will’. Such an approach would only act as an increased pull factor across the Mediterranean — and encourage more people to put their lives at risk.


I'll let you know what he says in reply.
Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by NonOxCol »

ephemerid wrote:The more I think about this, the worse I feel.

Show reckons we are already living in a fascist state. Some of us have been talking about proto-/crypto- fascism, whatever....

Fascism is generally defined as authoritarian nationalism, with elements of protectionism and the stifling of dissent by the control of information; it's usually accepted as being a right-wing form of social organisation, even though historically fascist movements have had left-wing elements.

I've been saying for a long time now that the social security reforms are reminiscent of what the Nazis did before WW2, in that certain groups were slowly marginalised by a drip-drip-drip method of propaganda vilifying them. It was then OK to keep them out of certain areas, to restrict their movements, to ghettoise them and prevent them from being able to work and thrive.
That was followed by slowly reducing their possessions, any state help they could get was dependent on forced labour, those who could not work starved and those who could had their rations reduced so they became ill from malnutrition. Some people now wonder how all the Jews, gypsies, and disabled people became so cowed, this is why - they were starving and ill.

How different is that from what happens now?
Are people being ghettoised? They're certainly being socially cleansed from some areas.
Are people having their support reduced even if they are doing unpaid work for it? Yes, they are.
Are the media culpable in disseminating anti-scrounger stories? Yes, they are.
Is our government talking about behavioural change rather than offering a safety net? Yes, it is.

I joked about seeingclearly's post about the prospect of living in a tent in Hull.
2 people living in tents in this country died during the winter.

We all said before this election, for the 5 years before this election, elsewhere and here, that the Tories were doing things in the last government with the enablement of the LibDems that even Thatcher wouldn't have dared to do.
We all said that Labour had to win this time because it would be more of the same if the Tories got another coalition - but now they have a majority, so they are going to be confident and very dangerous.

I am truly worried about what we have coming. If we can't trust our government, our media, or even our fellow voters, to do what is best in the interests of us all, what hope have we got?
This is more or less exactly why people I live with are accusing me of "over-reacting" to the election result and to any TV/radio appearance of Tories unbound and their media shills. I have never seen such a genuinely scary bunch in my entire life. They are capable of doing untold damage, and I could scream with frustration at how easily they're getting away with it.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by citizenJA »

England braced for high air pollution episode
09 April 2015

Levels of particulate matter air pollution are set to hit various areas across England today and tomorrow (April 9-10) due to warm weather and light winds, but the government’s air quality information website remains offline following an Islamist group’s cyber attack.

According to Defra air pollution forecast maps for tomorrow, levels of particulate matter are expected to reach as high as 10 – top of the scale – on areas of the south coast in England such as Eastbourne, with high and moderate levels expected in much of the rest of England and Wales. The pollution is expected to disperse on Saturday and Sunday.

However, details of specific pollution levels in regional areas of the UK are currently unavailable on the government’s UK Air website, operated by contractor Ricardo-AEA, as the site is offline following a cyber attack by an Islamist group (see airqualitynews.com story).

Defra said it is working to get the site back working again “as soon as possible”.

http://www.airqualitynews.com/2015/04/0 ... n-episode/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
8 April 2015
Defra's air pollution monitors went off-line & remained non-functional in the UK; allegedly due to an 'Islamist cyber-attack'
2015-05-13_defra_failures_.jpg
2015-05-13_defra_failures_.jpg (138.05 KiB) Viewed 7668 times
from the following website below
http://aqicn.org/map/europe/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yesterday's Guardian article I posted late last night linked below.
Defra 'breaking law' by not restoring hacked air-quality website, say users
Environment department accused of violating European law for not getting UK Air site, which provides live data on air quality...

12 May 2015

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... ty-website" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Air pollution monitor functionality resumed today.
Defra Air Quality
13 May 2015
‏@DefraUKAir
The UK-Air website is back on-line following completion of security checks.
Thank you for your understanding during this period #ukair

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Defra's what's new webpage
http://laqm.defra.gov.uk/whatsnew.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'Air quality information from Defra' link goes to UKGOV webpage below.
The UK is compliant with its 2010 national emission ceilings for air pollutants. We report national emission totals each year for the main pollutants to the European Commission and the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE) Convention on Long Range Transboundary Air Pollution. The UNECE Convention on Long Range Transboundary Air Pollution has agreed a number of protocols including the Gothenburg Protocol (amended in May 2012).

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ir-quality" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I need your help to link up changes happening all connected to these departments transcending the air quality monitoring failures.

I think the Tory government deliberately kept pollution monitoring information out of the GE, but it wasn't the only reason we went 35 odd days without this basic access to air quality measurement. The EU is hitting the UK with justly deserved pollution reduction failure charges. It's going to get worse. Dave's onto the EU thing right off the bat is the Shock Doctrine embodied.

Please look at the series of planning permissions, water extraction permits, rights-of-way changes, rural & urban area statistical reports released today from this Tory government's webpages.
Last edited by citizenJA on Wed 13 May, 2015 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by citizenJA »

I'm scared. I'm frightened by what this government is doing to human & wildlife well-being, land usage changes, environmental protections either thrown out or used altering ancient laws protecting public right's of way. All of this valuable public infrastructure is in the hands of a Tory government with a small majority. Please note I'm trying to pull a lot of information together here adding up to a blitzkrieg of change from Dave Cameron's Tory government. Are we really going to have to tolerate five years?

I'd like more information from Electoral Commission regarding the 2015 GE. I'm not satisfied this election was fair. I'm not just a disgruntled left-wing Labour party member disappointed with an election result. I saw the god damned news. I know the right wing press didn't indicate a Tory majority. I'm so gravely insulted by the transparency of it all. I want an explanation & accountability for what's happening in our country now.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by citizenJA »

AngryAsWell wrote:@ephe
I share your fears and I just can't see any way though this lot.
Me too.
Good god.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by Willow904 »

RobertSnozers wrote:Interesting 'reddit' asking why people voted Tory. " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Obviously not scientific, but not surprising how many essentially repeated themes hammered home by the media and the right in general over the last five years and which are basically factually incorrect or far too simplistic to be useful. Tory=strong and Labour (Miliband)=weak, Tory=competent Labour=incompetent, Labour=broke economy Tories=fixing economy. What I found most interesting, though, was the number of people who voted for a candidate against their ideological/party identification. Goes to show that Labour will need excellent candidates who will get out there into their communities and work for the people they want to represent. Doing that can win over people who might otherwise be inclined to vote otherwise, even if they're not 'natural' Labour supporters.
Local candidates. People always say they prefer someone local. It's such an obvious one, that often makes a big difference.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by citizenJA »

Willow904 wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:Interesting 'reddit' asking why people voted Tory. " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Obviously not scientific, but not surprising how many essentially repeated themes hammered home by the media and the right in general over the last five years and which are basically factually incorrect or far too simplistic to be useful. Tory=strong and Labour (Miliband)=weak, Tory=competent Labour=incompetent, Labour=broke economy Tories=fixing economy. What I found most interesting, though, was the number of people who voted for a candidate against their ideological/party identification. Goes to show that Labour will need excellent candidates who will get out there into their communities and work for the people they want to represent. Doing that can win over people who might otherwise be inclined to vote otherwise, even if they're not 'natural' Labour supporters.
Local candidates. People always say they prefer someone local. It's such an obvious one, that often makes a big difference.
How many local candidates won across the UK? Were each SNP MP living in their constituency they won? How many Labour local MPs? Tory? I'll research & let you know more. People say a lot of what they like. Their words & the results sometimes don't match.

Oliver Coppard, a local Labour party candidate for Sheffield Hallam lost to Clegg by 2,353 votes. Voter turnout 75.3%.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by citizenJA »

Hey, Scotland only had a 71.1% voter turnout.
Wonder why it was lower than their Scottish Independence referendum electorate turnout of 84.6%?
I'm surprised.

edited to rearrange words in order to convey greater sense. I don't know if I succeeded. It will have to do.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by PorFavor »

Police looking into allegation of fraud in Thanet South (Guardian Politics Blog, 15.27)
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by PorFavor »

RobertSnozers wrote:By the way, just wanted to say I'm taking a few days off politics. I've been eating, sleeping and breathing for weeks and it turns out it's not very nutritious. I still want to do the blog if the general consensus is that we should go ahead with it, but in case anyone thinks I've fallen off the face of the earth, I'm only recharging my batteries.
Enjoy the break, and take care. See you soon.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by citizenJA »

Supporters of the Save Bury Hospice campaign took their petition signed by 7,000 local people to Downing Street last week to hand it in to the Prime Minister’s office.

Hospice nurse Anne Riley, Precious and Melody - family of a current hospice patient - and Mel Banks whose partner was a former patient of the hospice, headed to London with James Frith, who founded the campaign last year and is standing to be Labour MP for Bury North on 7th May.

James Frith, who organised the visit and set up the campaign to save our hospice last summer, said:

I’m so grateful to Anne, Precious, Melody and Mel and the thousands of local people who have supported our campaign to save Bury Hospice over the last 9 months. Our petition sends a loud and clear message to this unfair government - enough is enough. We need a hospice that outlives us all and a fair deal for NHS Bury and we’ll fight for it until we get it.

http://www.frith4burynorth.com/hospice_downing_street" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bury North was a Tory hold.
By 378 votes.
David Nuttall (18,970) - Labour's James Firth (18,592)
"Let us continue to fight for fairness and the issues we championed throughout my campaign.
Now more than ever, we must stand up for each other.
Thank you all.
James x
"

https://www.facebook.com/frith4burynorth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
James is local. And a total sweetie.
I'm astounded at the absurdity of Nuttall keeping his crazy seat with 378 votes.
Could we please have an audit of those figures?
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by Eric_WLothian »

ephemerid wrote:
Thus - "The definition of harmful is to include a risk of public disorder, a risk of harassment, alarm, or distress, or creating a threat to the functioning of democracy".
Look on the bright side - 56 MPs and their followers fit all of those criteria.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by citizenJA »

RobertSnozers wrote:By the way, just wanted to say I'm taking a few days off politics. I've been eating, sleeping and breathing for weeks and it turns out it's not very nutritious. I still want to do the blog if the general consensus is that we should go ahead with it, but in case anyone thinks I've fallen off the face of the earth, I'm only recharging my batteries.
Thank you, RobertSnozers, for letting me (us) know. Please eat the green vegetables. I'd love a plate of arugula at the moment.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by Willow904 »

I wonder if someone can help me with some strange figures.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32719554" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In the year to December, 605,595 Jobseeker's Allowance (JSA) claimants had payments stopped, compared with 899,576 in the previous year......

The number of people having ESA payments stopped rose from 21,219 in 2013 to 64,193 in 2014....

The Department for Work and Pensions says the sanctions regime is a necessary part of the benefits system.

It said 94% of JSA claimants, and 99% of ESA claimants, were not sanctioned.
So only 6% of JSA claimants were sanctioned. If 605,595 is 6% of all JSA claimants doesn't that mean that the total number of JSA claimants is something knocking on 10 million? This has been published on the BBC website and yet the figures quoted suggest one or other of the DWPs official figures are essentially very wrong. Does no one in the world of journalism give a stuff anymore? Do they not notice the figures they are being given make no sense? Or am I missing something? The current figure for JSA claimants is 764,000. How can the BBC print this stuff and not notice the discrepancy?
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by AngryAsWell »

PorFavor wrote:
Police looking into allegation of fraud in Thanet South (Guardian Politics Blog, 15.27)
The result was not declared at the count at Margate's Winter Gardens until about 10.35 GMT on Friday, hours later than expected.

BBC reporters were told by officials at the time the delays were caused by the sheer volume of ballot papers and problems verifying the postal vote.

Turnout was 69%, up from 65% in 2010.

Claims of suspicious behaviour appeared on social media following the delays.

Labour's South Thanet candidate Will Scobie, who received 11,740 votes, said he thought the count took a long time because they were "trying to do two constituencies at once".

"If police are investigating we'll have to wait and see what the outcome is," he added.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32725167" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I still cannot reconcile long voter queues, "sheer volume of ballot papers" quotes and voting stations having to bring in extra booths with a 66% average turnout, only up 1% from the last election.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by citizenJA »

RobertSnozers wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Willow904 wrote: Local candidates. People always say they prefer someone local. It's such an obvious one, that often makes a big difference.
How many local candidates won across the UK? Were each SNP MP living in their constituency they won? How many Labour local MPs? Tory? I'll research & let you know more. People say a lot of what they like. Their words & the results sometimes don't match.

Oliver Coppard, a local Labour party candidate for Sheffield Hallam lost to Clegg by 2,353 votes. Voter turnout 75.3%.
Coppard is the exception that sort of proves the rule. He secured a massive swing towards Labour, much bigger than the one that unseated Portillo, and would have won had it not been for Tories voting tactically.
I know, RobertSnozers, please excuse me if I sounded snippy. Coppard is brilliant & I apologise for my ungraciousness. I didn't include enough words praising the people, the man & the work that nearly run Clegg right the hell out of his seat.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by seeingclearly »

ephemerid wrote:
Is our government talking about behavioural change rather than offering a safety net? Yes, it is.

I'm with Show on the fascism thing. It was a growing awareness last year of your point above, and the groups of people in whom they are inducing behavioural change, and the kinds of change they were inducing, and a realisation that none of us are immune. I mentioned this yesterday and said we were conditioned to jump and it didn't matter which way so long as we jumped, and with edicts coming thick and fast we had to to just keep abreast of it all. But the more I thought about it it seemed the triggers had been put in quite subliminal,y very early on. I think the effects of the debates really showed this. But all this was the very public political stuff. The nastier stuff is very nasty. I spent a little of last night reading about how a young disabled woman and her also differently disabled child had been verbally abused by a frontline worker. Basically told she and her child shouldn't really have been allowed to live.

Well in the England I remember you could have easily complained and expected some action on this. But the responses to this woman revealed other similar stuff. Well I know it goes on, but we are a lot more complacent accepting of it now, even when we are outraged, because it's a different kind of normal like the racism, sexism, and worse still the institutional sadism. This last I find terrifying. I spent six weeks away, right away, and it showed me lot about how I have been affected, and also just how abnormal a state we are now in. A friend who returned from elsewhere also said something similar. I also met a fairly well of couple I've known at a distance for years, they were eager to ask me how it was being away. Weird, I said, I expected this to be the place with a lot of tension and fear. But it wasn't! Anyway I got flu a couple of days later, everyone was amazing, and apart from the moquitoes and a desire to do the impossible everything was fab. Then we came back, and the difference just hit us between the eyes. And my friend, who visited a different part of Asia, had the same. It's not exaggerating to say it made us more ill, and being away made us less ill. And that in spite of having been really very ill with full blown flu, no anonymous sniffly virus.

But to get back to Ephies last point. While we were being conditioned to jump politically I was also watching disabled communities here and abroad, because that's where my interests lay, and my experience, both in the community and online. And I was getting very concerned about my usually very ebullient, smiley and generally good natured youngster. The groups both international and local I was closest too were pretty affluent but the disability and poorer end groups weren't. And their expectations were being systematically driven down. So young people who had been planning to do environmental or creative, or tech work were no longer talking about their dreams. And the older disabled, and even here there was a lot of discussion about end of life stuff - quite serious - among people whose health was far from terminal unless you view life as that anyway. There was a lot of other stuff too, but with the exception of able bodied young working people who believe they'll become supermarket staff or security staff working mainly on crushingly poor hours and pay, the poorer or more seriously ill or disabled people now largely believe they will not be allowed to live independently and will be made to live in homes. Nothing new there you might think. But the thing is most of the companies who 'trained ' these people no longer function and have disappeared. A few of them genuinely shielded people they connected with but even those are gone. Few ever made people feel worthwhile. The charities are also slowly not renewing contracts.

I feel very very uneasy about this. My youngster survived, just about, but is damaged in a way he cannot discuss with me, except to say that the way for him to avoid sanctions was to be impeccably polite but look big. And to fulfil very criteria scrupulously. Which he did. But at what cost. Every fortnight he'd see what we know to be the 'low hanging fruit'. Broken people, disabled and fragile, ex junkies barely recovering, people with visible disabilities. Worse, black people and brown people but the very poor and the weak. Women, usually young mums, desperate. And middle aged people. And while he stayed polite they were getting sanctioned. A week before we went away he said when we come back I can't do it any more. Poor lamb, he's never hurt a thing in his life, but he's been struggling with wanting to physically intervene, and didn't believe he'd be able to stop himself. He felt complicit for not doing anything, and my god don't we all try and I still these kind of good values in our kids, you know you don't walk away, you pick up th fallen, you don't let people be bullied. But this is there in our system, now because of installing fear. I told him, fuck it, we'll manage on my pension, and that's what we do. Multiply him by however many, that's what we're letting them see, if they can't find work. There's worse, in the programmes, but that's enough for me, except I haven't got a clue how to rid him of the changes they've made. And in spite of a zillion bad things I saw in the eighties this has a different nature. We knew there was a way back then, our system was only partially damaged and as a society were were just messed about, but nothing like this.

People's expectations are very changed. I read the little novel, recently, about postcards, sent by a couple in Germany, it's a banal little story, but everything the characters to whether it's pro the regime or against it is conditioned. Of course Germany had by then gone a long way further than this. But reading the item about the detention centres, and Ephies comment about people who died in tents, and remembering that someone spent the winter in a 'cave' it was more like a rocky overhang, and looking at the terrifying consequences of the benefit cap, now reduced by £3000 per household, and the proposed(?) removal of CB for over two children and the arcane and incredibly more complex conditionalities for pensions and benefits, and the total lack of real job creation, real new homes, reduction of vital services such as police firefighters etc, the immigration system, the EU referendum, the lack of proper training in what's replacing what used to be called caring provision, and the increasingly horrible repressive legislation, I can't see us going anywhere good. There's no way to parse it. Or not in terms of the Britain we know. And that's the point I think of this stupidly long post. That we didn't as a nation believe it, that we are still side stepping towards it, that nothing is stopping it, we are not outraged enough to stop it. That we allowed all those things to go. Firemen for goodness sake. The kind carers that kept the bums of our sick and elderly clean and made sure they got fed and watered and made them smile a little.

I think we've been there a while. I think Show is right. I think all those trolls who invoked Godwin or whatever, they knew what they were injecting into things, if you called it out for what it is the ridicule would follow.

When I returned in the late 70s it was from a country in exactly this place. It was more overtly military and the propaganda wasn't the same, it did tell people like me to go, and we did. In a few years few were left. Having done with us they started on the real enemy. I was a late leaver. And saw the beginning of the next stage. And walked back to Thatcher, not yet crowned, but in the wings.

There should probably be a place for writers like me, who can't stop. My apologies, it's like a jigsaw when you haven't got a clue what it is because the box got lost, but the pictures emerging and there's another piece and you've just got to pick it up.
Last edited by seeingclearly on Wed 13 May, 2015 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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citizenJA
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by citizenJA »

AngryAsWell wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Police looking into allegation of fraud in Thanet South (Guardian Politics Blog, 15.27)
The result was not declared at the count at Margate's Winter Gardens until about 10.35 GMT on Friday, hours later than expected.

BBC reporters were told by officials at the time the delays were caused by the sheer volume of ballot papers and problems verifying the postal vote.

Turnout was 69%, up from 65% in 2010.

Claims of suspicious behaviour appeared on social media following the delays.

Labour's South Thanet candidate Will Scobie, who received 11,740 votes, said he thought the count took a long time because they were "trying to do two constituencies at once".

"If police are investigating we'll have to wait and see what the outcome is," he added.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32725167" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I still cannot reconcile long voter queues, "sheer volume of ballot papers" quotes and voting stations having to bring in extra booths with a 66% average turnout, only up 1% from the last election.
Neither can I.
"The definition of harmful is to include a risk of public disorder, a risk of harassment, alarm, or distress..."
Dave makes someone being personally horrid to him a crime.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

RobertSnozers wrote:By the way, just wanted to say I'm taking a few days off politics. I've been eating, sleeping and breathing for weeks and it turns out it's not very nutritious. I still want to do the blog if the general consensus is that we should go ahead with it, but in case anyone thinks I've fallen off the face of the earth, I'm only recharging my batteries.
I completely understand and indeed agree to a large extent - I expect I will be less busy on here myself for a while.

(your eating metaphor is a good one as well - election campaigns are often a very unhealthy time in that sense for those immersed in them; you need a detox afterwards :) )
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by rebeccariots2 »

seeingclearly wrote:
There should probably be a place for writers like me, who can't stop. My apologies, it's like a jigsaw when you haven't got a clue what it is because the box got lost, but the pictures emerging and there's another piece and you've just got to pick it up.
There is. It's here. Please carry on writing just as you do.
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by citizenJA »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:
There should probably be a place for writers like me, who can't stop. My apologies, it's like a jigsaw when you haven't got a clue what it is because the box got lost, but the pictures emerging and there's another piece and you've just got to pick it up.
There is. It's here. Please carry on writing just as you do.
Hell, yes.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Coming back from doing a lawn mow earlier I asked Mr Riots what he had done with the red council tax bill that arrived a few days ago.

'I tore it up. And it made me feel a lot better', he said. Then he giggled.

There seems to be a theme emerging with him today.
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by seeingclearly »

citizenJA wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
The result was not declared at the count at Margate's Winter Gardens until about 10.35 GMT on Friday, hours later than expected.

BBC reporters were told by officials at the time the delays were caused by the sheer volume of ballot papers and problems verifying the postal vote.

Turnout was 69%, up from 65% in 2010.

Claims of suspicious behaviour appeared on social media following the delays.

Labour's South Thanet candidate Will Scobie, who received 11,740 votes, said he thought the count took a long time because they were "trying to do two constituencies at once".

"If police are investigating we'll have to wait and see what the outcome is," he added.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32725167" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I still cannot reconcile long voter queues, "sheer volume of ballot papers" quotes and voting stations having to bring in extra booths with a 66% average turnout, only up 1% from the last election.
Neither can I.
"The definition of harmful is to include a risk of public disorder, a risk of harassment, alarm, or distress..."
Dave makes someone being personally horrid to him a crime.

A friend in a neighbouring ward, same constituency posted a pic of queues. It wasn't a particularly nice day here quite cold, and the temperature dropped quite quickly, people were in coats. It's a safe seat but people weren't taking chances. He said they were nearly all talking of voting Labour. I'd been listening to the news and they were estimating an average of 73% with the highest turnouts hitting 80%. In hindsight I wish I'd kept some of the audio. I mentioned this here afterwards, perhaps Friday. It's baffled me because they used some generic phrase on the lines of an exceptionally high turnout.
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Re: Wednesday 13th May

Post by StephenDolan »

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... -you-think" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Grim reading. Doesn’t seem to factor in changes to Tory, UKIP or Lib Dem VI in current Tory seats though?
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