Thursday 14th May 2015

A home from home
Forum rules
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
User avatar
refitman
Site Admin
Posts: 7691
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:22 pm
Location: Wombwell, United Kingdom

Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
User avatar
tinyclanger2
Prime Minister
Posts: 9711
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Morning.
@utopiandreams - united left = Big Society. The same thought occurred to me too. On the other hand my feeling is that politics will take a long time to fix, and we can't leave the place to further deteriorate in the interim. Changing politics will mean changing world views and that's going to take more than a new Labour leadership. Particularly given what's on offer there.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
yahyah
Prime Minister
Posts: 7535
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 8:29 am
Location: Being rained on in west Wales

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by yahyah »

Morning.

Tim Farron was interviewed by John Humphreys earlier on.
He, as Liberals often do, banged on about Liberalism, using the word frequently and in relation to re-building the Lib Dems.

Have a feeling we won't hear the word socialism used by Labour leadership candidates.
yahyah
Prime Minister
Posts: 7535
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 8:29 am
Location: Being rained on in west Wales

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by yahyah »

& today's positive news, again from the Welsh Labour Government;


£16m EU-backed fund to support long term unemployed people launched by Welsh Government

The project aims to support more than 2,000 six-month work placements
The Active Inclusion Fund, which is supported by £11.5m of EU funds, aims to support over 7,000 people aged over 25 years in North and West Wales and the South Wales Valleys over the next three years.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... ng-9251929" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
utopiandreams
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2306
Joined: Mon 16 Mar, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

tinyclanger2 wrote:Morning.
@utopiandreams - united left = Big Society. The same thought occurred to me too. On the other hand my feeling is that politics will take a long time to fix, and we can't leave the place to further deteriorate in the interim. Changing politics will mean changing world views and that's going to take more than a new Labour leadership. Particularly given what's on offer there.
Broken Britain? It ain't broken Britain, tinyclanger, it's broken politics. In the meantime we've got to work together with what we have and oppose the Tory narrative and hegemony. Wtf have we been clamouring for?
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
utopiandreams
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2306
Joined: Mon 16 Mar, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

yahyah wrote:Morning.

Tim Farron was interviewed by John Humphreys earlier on.
He, as Liberals often do, banged on about Liberalism, using the word frequently and in relation to re-building the Lib Dems.

Have a feeling we won't hear the word socialism used by Labour leadership candidates.
Didn't see it myself, but expect his words sound okay even if he lacks action, yahyah. Liberalism should never be confused with laissez-faire; socialism sounds good though.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
yahyah
Prime Minister
Posts: 7535
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 8:29 am
Location: Being rained on in west Wales

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by yahyah »

Jimmy McLean ‏@jgmclean2708 5m5 minutes ago
BBCR4 news this am: Wee update on Tories, Labour, UKIP then Lib Dems.
No mention of SNP, like we don't exist and last week never happened.


It's all about them :roll:
utopiandreams
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2306
Joined: Mon 16 Mar, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

Just seen Claudia Winkleman (?) something about her kiddie's dress on fire. Frightening though it undoubtedly was, Claudia, I cannot help but hold you responsible. Didn't you recognise the risk for yourself? Having said that, I worked in retail furniture when improved fire regs for furnishings were introduced. Similar standards should apply to clothing. Too much red tape, I expect.

Edit: replaced second furniture with furnishings.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
yahyah
Prime Minister
Posts: 7535
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 8:29 am
Location: Being rained on in west Wales

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by yahyah »

utopiandreams wrote:Just seen Claudia Winkleman (?) something about her kiddie's dress on fire. Frightening though it undoubtedly was, Claudia, I cannot help but hold you responsible. Didn't you recognise the risk for yourself? Having said that, I worked in retail furniture when improved fire regs for furnishings were introduced. Similar standards should apply to clothing. Too much red tape, I expect.

Edit: replaced second furniture with furnishings.

Regulations exist for sleepwear for children. Can't believe the Tories would scrap them under the guise of scrapping 'red tape that is strangling free enterprise'.
Her daughter's outfit was a Halloween one, so presumably didn't need safety standards as it wasn't nightwear.
Last edited by yahyah on Thu 14 May, 2015 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
ephemerid
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2690
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:56 am

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by ephemerid »

Morning Dan and tc2, yahyah, and utopiandreams.

After my very long response to Willow yesterday on the sanctions-figures-that-make-no-sense-as-usual, those of you who read it (and I hope you settled down with a flask and sandwiches...) may have noticed that the ONS claimant count figures which the government quotes do not as yet include people claiming the JSA element of UC. The ONS calculates them separately as "experimental" rather than "official" statistics.

At the last count, there were 35,600 UC single straightforward claimants on the JSA element who count as unemployed, actively seeking work, etc. like their ordinary JSA counterparts but with extra UC rules on top. They will steadily increase in number as UC gets rolled out; also slowly increasing is the number of couples making a joint claim whose status is also fairly straightforward.

Starting now, is the UC roll-out for people who work and claim tax credits being put on to UC - all new claims for tax credits in this group of people will now be for UC instead. Entitlement for TCs is based on income, and there is no "income floor" - there is a lower limit on hours worked, and to qualify a single person must be working for an employer for 30 hours a week, or be in "sustainable" self employment.

The "income floor" for one person on UC is about £12,000PA if employed and £11,000 if self-employed. The hours don't matter any more.
All the people who want to make a new claim for TCs in these circumstances must now claim UC - they will all be "mandated to the jobcentre" and required to sign a Claimant Commitment. However many hours they work.

New guidance for this describes how Jobcentres will address "low-earning behaviour". This behaviour is not going to be tolerated.

"Under-achieving" employed workers will be subject to mandatory interventions even if they can demonstrate that they are doing what the CC requires, and they will be expected to work more hours, ask for better pay, or change their job, subject to sanction.
Self-employed people must comply with the "gainful self-employment test" which is aimed at "protecting the taxpayer from those who declare themselves self-employed but whose businesses routinely generate little income" - these people will have to close down their businesses and claim UC as a JSA-type jobseeker - this is likely to cost the taxpayer more, not less.

Failure to earn £900 a month will mean that the business must close - someone earning about £800 would currently get by on a small amount of TCs and perhaps some HB/LHA; under UC they will have to shut up shop, and claim JSA and full HB/LHA entitlement.
35% of the self-employed in the UK earn less than the UC income floor. Not all of them are currently claiming TCs or other help; but we are still talking about a lot of people who will have to close down their enterprise - which they were actively encouraged by IDS to take up.

It is estimated that there will be between one and two million people affected by these UC conditions when the roll-out is complete - this could take a long time if it is restricted to new claims only; but as HMRC have issued new rules on sustainability of self-employment in what they call "preparation for UC" the switch from working for yourself to becoming a JSA/UC dependent jobseeker might happen sooner for some.

Thanks to pisspoor wages, ZHCs, short hours contracts, insecure work causing people to have to sign on and off repeatedly, plus the active promotion - until now - of Jobcentres and Work Programme providers to get people off JSA and into self-employment, there is a massive cohort of people who will be affected by this. Massive.
UC's Claimant Commitment can impose any conditions on a claimant that the Jobcentre sees fit. That covers everything from impossible numbers of jobs to be applied for, mandatory attendance for signing on daily, mandatory "training" or programmes, and compulsory unpaid work. Even if you are already working full time.

Some of the people who will be affected by this will have voted Tory. They have no idea what's coming. At least a million of them are going to be forced back on to JSA and expected to work for it; any deviation from what they have been ordered to do will result in a sanction.
IDS will attempt to hide the rising claimant count, but as it is the figures are already massaged and the real picture of employment in this country is hazy at best. Where it will show, eventually, is in tax receipts - and with less money, the Tories will....cut benefits.
"Poverty is the worst form of violence" - Mahatma Gandhi
User avatar
TheGrimSqueaker
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2192
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 12:23 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

yahyah wrote:
utopiandreams wrote:Just seen Claudia Winkleman (?) something about her kiddie's dress on fire. Frightening though it undoubtedly was, Claudia, I cannot help but hold you responsible. Didn't you recognise the risk for yourself? Having said that, I worked in retail furniture when improved fire regs for furnishings were introduced. Similar standards should apply to clothing. Too much red tape, I expect.

Edit: replaced second furniture with furnishings.

Regulations exist for sleepwear for children. Can't believe the Tories would scrap them under the guise of scrapping 'red tape that is strangling free enterprise'.
Her daughter's outfit was a Halloween one, so presumably didn't need safety standards as it wasn't nightwear.
Which is why Claud is speaking publicly about this incident. Her daughter has undergone several operations and will undergo many more; both the surgeon and Ms Winkleman are calling for tougher safety laws on Halloween & fancy dress costumes.

Morning all.
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
User avatar
danesclose
Whip
Posts: 882
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:06 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by danesclose »

yahyah wrote:
utopiandreams wrote:Just seen Claudia Winkleman (?) something about her kiddie's dress on fire. Frightening though it undoubtedly was, Claudia, I cannot help but hold you responsible. Didn't you recognise the risk for yourself? Having said that, I worked in retail furniture when improved fire regs for furnishings were introduced. Similar standards should apply to clothing. Too much red tape, I expect.

Edit: replaced second furniture with furnishings.

Regulations exist for sleepwear for children. Can't believe the Tories would scrap them under the guise of scrapping 'red tape that is strangling free enterprise'.
Her daughter's outfit was a Halloween one, so presumably didn't need safety standards as it wasn't nightwear.
Morning all.
I think in fairness to Claudia Winkelman that the child's costume was classified as a toy, and therefore not covered by the same fire regulations as clothing.
Proud to be part of The Indecent Minority.
User avatar
Lonewolfie
Lord Chancellor
Posts: 634
Joined: Fri 29 Aug, 2014 9:05 am

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by Lonewolfie »

utopiandreams wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:Morning.
@utopiandreams - united left = Big Society. The same thought occurred to me too. On the other hand my feeling is that politics will take a long time to fix, and we can't leave the place to further deteriorate in the interim. Changing politics will mean changing world views and that's going to take more than a new Labour leadership. Particularly given what's on offer there.
Broken Britain? It ain't broken Britain, tinyclanger, it's broken politics. In the meantime we've got to work together with what we have and oppose the Tory narrative and hegemony. Wtf have we been clamouring for?
Evemorafting all...

As ever, hoping to be back for a bit longer later, but wanted to drop this in (from 2010)

The real power of newspapers comes in their ability to ‘frame’ news. This is the process by which a newspaper selects a story for publication, interprets it, and reports it. By highlighting negative issues, and importantly keeping the negative news focus upon a particular party, issues can be subtly shaped.

http://electionblog2010.blogspot.co.uk/ ... apers.html
(Blog from School of Politics and International Relations at The University of Nottingham.)

...and from the Graun just 9 short days ago...

It’s a “plot”, a “coup” and a “secret plan”: two days before an election so close no one can call it, the rightwing press is already questioning the legitimacy of a Labour-led coalition if the Tories fail to win an outright majority.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/m ... raph-times

The system is indeed broken - as I said (and will continue to say) the point must continue to be made loud and clear that less than 38% of votes cast to gain absolute control is not democracy. (Undeconstructed old Marxists like me have always moaned like b****** about the myth of 'democratic representation' in what is effectively an oligarchy, and always has been.)

Electoral and vote reform (and the campaign to bring it about) is the only way we're going to change anything. Waiting 6 months (or however long) for Labour to elect a new leader allows TCBBAC and his horrific Murkydochian Monstrosity of an administration to implement draconian and oppressive 'laws', thereby fomenting unrest, to which the reaction will be similar to the reaction to the 2011 riots, but with water cannon, rubber bullets and many arrested - rolling back from that point will be extremely difficult unless the resistance starts now. A 'new' Labour leader will then be fighting an entrenched (admittedly highly incompetent and monumentally stupid) 'government' on ground of their choosing, not that of honesty and decency aimed at government for the people by the people.

WRT 'other parties' - as UKIP are now beginning to implode and the SNP have become an 'irrelevance' to TCBBAC it shows a specific strategy (I believe(TM)).

As with the links above, the MSM 'frame' the 'story'...

UKIP are important, viable and a threat from the right - actual - UKIP pick up disgruntled Labour votes through 'plain speaking'.

The SNP are a threat (in rUK) and are the future in Scotland - actual - austerity implementers shout about being anti-austerity and create division on the 'Left' and heighten 'fear' of 'chaos'.

Every MSM outlet trumpeting loud and clear that 'the election is the closest (and therefore the MOST EXCITING) evaahhh'...leading to a majority gained by 901 votes.

Free and fair? I think not...but then many facets of UN Human Rights have already been quietly forgotten in Britain...but we have an opportunity....there is just one enemy now...and they are (as they've proved a number of times) frackwittingly omnishambolic.

TTFN
Proud to be 1 of the 76% - Solidarity...because PODEMOS
utopiandreams
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2306
Joined: Mon 16 Mar, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

yahyah wrote:... Regulations exist for sleepwear for children. Can't believe the Tories would scrap them under the guise of scrapping 'red tape that is strangling free enterprise'.
Her daughter's outfit was a Halloween one, so presumably didn't need safety standards as it wasn't nightwear.
Yeah the interview itself came on while I was remarking on the preview, yahyah, and said as much. Red tape? I seem to recall my Stag Hunt dream (and yes it was literally a dream) about red tape. Coincidentally just the week before Cameron announced a bonfire of regulations and red-tape. Sometimes I think that Tories are stupid. I should be kind and consider them ignorant. Trouble is, that puts a greater burden on me... but why should anybody listen?
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
User avatar
Willow904
Prime Minister
Posts: 7220
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 2:40 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by Willow904 »

yahyah wrote:Morning.

Tim Farron was interviewed by John Humphreys earlier on.
He, as Liberals often do, banged on about Liberalism, using the word frequently and in relation to re-building the Lib Dems.

Have a feeling we won't hear the word socialism used by Labour leadership candidates.
If they've got any sense Labour leaders will use the words social democracy a lot. The reason Labour maintained their vote share despite losses to nationalists in Scotland and Ukip in England is because Ed appealed to the social democrats Clegg dumped. If the Libdems elect another liberal as leader, Labour should be able to hang onto them.

On another topic, Andy Burnham didn't entirely convince me with his leader declaration video. It wasn't really what he said, just the way he said it. I hope Hunty decides to run. His TV experience would just be so helpful in carving Labour a more high profile image. And in the interview I watched, instead of using empty words like aspiration, he jumped straight to the things that appeal to aspiring parents like after school clubs. We need someone who get straight to the things that matter and cut the guff.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
yahyah
Prime Minister
Posts: 7535
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 8:29 am
Location: Being rained on in west Wales

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by yahyah »

Apologies for not having heard that Ms Winkelman is now campaigning for more protection.

I am limiting the amount of time I have Radio 4 on in the morning, and the number and type of news websites I visit.
Feel lacking in trust for the news they present, and want to screen out direct contact with the Tories and their media presence.
Last edited by yahyah on Thu 14 May, 2015 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
utopiandreams
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2306
Joined: Mon 16 Mar, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

@ephemerid

Thanks again ephemerid for facts and figures. What you describe is stuff I have at times alluded to. I'm not for a moment saying 'told you so' but am thanking you for your clarity and elucidation. In the meantime this dilettante shall find something else to look at.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
User avatar
rebeccariots2
Prime Minister
Posts: 14038
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:20 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

yahyah wrote:Jimmy McLean ‏@jgmclean2708 5m5 minutes ago
BBCR4 news this am: Wee update on Tories, Labour, UKIP then Lib Dems.
No mention of SNP, like we don't exist and last week never happened.


It's all about them :roll:
Fair point by him I think. They have been awarded third party status. And if the BBC is going to mention the parties of 1 and 8 MPs respectively ... where are the 56?
Working on the wild side.
User avatar
frightful_oik
Whip
Posts: 954
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:45 am

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by frightful_oik »

Anyone else feeling underwhelmed by the Labour leadership candidates so far? Or is it just me?
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you-
Ye are many - they are few."
yahyah
Prime Minister
Posts: 7535
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 8:29 am
Location: Being rained on in west Wales

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by yahyah »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Jimmy McLean ‏@jgmclean2708 5m5 minutes ago
BBCR4 news this am: Wee update on Tories, Labour, UKIP then Lib Dems.
No mention of SNP, like we don't exist and last week never happened.


It's all about them :roll:
Fair point by him I think. They have been awarded third party status. And if the BBC is going to mention the parties of 1 and 8 MPs respectively ... where are the 56?
The SNP MPs seem busy posing pics of themselves with plates of chips in the HoC restaurants and complaining about the tea room seating arrangements.

Salmond is starting to flex his muscles and his gob.

I'm not going to refer to them as The 56, as that seems to have been taken up by the same bunch who call themselves the 45%. Sounds as if they are being endowed with some sort of mystical status by their followers.
User avatar
Swarthlander
Committee Chair
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 3:00 pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by Swarthlander »

Willow904 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Morning.

Tim Farron was interviewed by John Humphreys earlier on.
He, as Liberals often do, banged on about Liberalism, using the word frequently and in relation to re-building the Lib Dems.

Have a feeling we won't hear the word socialism used by Labour leadership candidates.
If they've got any sense Labour leaders will use the words social democracy a lot. The reason Labour maintained their vote share despite losses to nationalists in Scotland and Ukip in England is because Ed appealed to the social democrats Clegg dumped. If the Libdems elect another liberal as leader, Labour should be able to hang onto them.

On another topic, Andy Burnham didn't entirely convince me with his leader declaration video. It wasn't really what he said, just the way he said it. I hope Hunty decides to run. His TV experience would just be so helpful in carving Labour a more high profile image. And in the interview I watched, instead of using empty words like aspiration, he jumped straight to the things that appeal to aspiring parents like after school clubs. We need someone who get straight to the things that matter and cut the guff.
I agree with both points.

With a positive outlook, hopefully, Labour can attract the democrats and also those lost to the kippers (it's looking like UKIP are in internal strife). Whoever wins the Labour leadership contest needs to look to and decribe a positive future. Just telling people how bad things are/will be didn't work.

As for the Leadership debate - any of them that spouts meaningless inane 'sound bite' phrases will not get my vote.
"Aspirational" :?: Everyone is aspirational in some way or other but it's a meaningless word without context. I aspire to have a good dump every morning. :roll:


Good morning. :D
"A lack of compassion is as vulgar as an excess of tears"
User avatar
rebeccariots2
Prime Minister
Posts: 14038
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:20 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

frightful_oik wrote:Anyone else feeling underwhelmed by the Labour leadership candidates so far? Or is it just me?
Utterly underwhelmed.
Working on the wild side.
User avatar
Swarthlander
Committee Chair
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 3:00 pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by Swarthlander »

frightful_oik wrote:Anyone else feeling underwhelmed by the Labour leadership candidates so far? Or is it just me?
Not just you. It's all a bit "same stuff in a different order" so far.
"A lack of compassion is as vulgar as an excess of tears"
yahyah
Prime Minister
Posts: 7535
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 8:29 am
Location: Being rained on in west Wales

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by yahyah »

Tbh, I don't feel I can vote for any of them.

Which is making me think, if I can't vote for any of them will there be any point in staying a member ? I joined because of Ed.
User avatar
rebeccariots2
Prime Minister
Posts: 14038
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:20 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Watch: new Tory minister Priti Patel's excruciating blather when asked if she still supports the death penalty
"Why are you not willing to say whether or not you believe something?"

http://www.newstatesman.com/media-mole/ ... -she-still" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Working on the wild side.
utopiandreams
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2306
Joined: Mon 16 Mar, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Watch: new Tory minister Priti Patel's excruciating blather when asked if she still supports the death penalty
"Why are you not willing to say whether or not you believe something?"

http://www.newstatesman.com/media-mole/ ... -she-still" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Can't stand the woman, rebecca, so am not about to watch. Perhaps she felt she had a gun to her head. Cheers I really am going now.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
Tonibel
Backbencher
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu 01 Jan, 2015 10:09 am

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by Tonibel »

frightful_oik wrote:Anyone else feeling underwhelmed by the Labour leadership candidates so far? Or is it just me?
Angela Eagle would do it for me but we must be getting near the max number of candidates
User avatar
rebeccariots2
Prime Minister
Posts: 14038
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:20 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

yahyah wrote:Tbh, I don't feel I can vote for any of them.

Which is making me think, if I can't vote for any of them will there be any point in staying a member ? I joined because of Ed.
I realised I was probably going to be in a difficult position the other day ... unable to want any of them as leader - and that's not because of any unshakeable loyalty to Ed as leader - it's because they don't cut the mustard in any way for me so far. There has to be someone who is not drawn from this stultifyingly non human speak bunch of apologists and emolliators. They are just stripping out anything real and honest.

Difficult decision for me to make if we still have really good candidates here in Pembs that are worth supporting whilst the London / metro lot fuck it all up ... don't know how much I can be actively supporting Labour in future if that's the case. I will be funnelling whatever energy I have into direct action on the issues that really matter to me.
Working on the wild side.
ScarletGas
Committee Chair
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue 17 Feb, 2015 12:05 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by ScarletGas »

Bore Da,

I was settling down last evening to watch the BBC news review at 10.30 until informed that the pompous, cliché ridden, empty headed clown known as Lord Digby Jones was going to be pontificating yet again.

It really is true that empty vessels do make the most noise.

Anyway I digress.

Scrambling for the remote I did something I have rarely done since Ian Katz got his hands on Newsnight and ventured there.

Liz Kendall, I thought handled the interview with Evan Davies quite well with some more of the positive assertion (rather than victim status) I have been looking for,but................not for me.

What a disappointment! Close your eyes and it could have been a "moderate" tory talking.

She seems to me to one of the so called "modernisers" (what a misnomer) determined to take us back to the blairite philosophy.

According to her Labour spent too much, election strategy aimed in the wrong areas, less than convincing answer regarding strike action. Seemed to me to be following the narrative being tried to be developed by Mandelson and his cronies (including those in the MSM) that we need to go back 10 years.

Sorry, she seems more of the problem rather than the solution to me.

Lets hope for better, more radical, well thought out, targeted proposals from the other contenders.
User avatar
Swarthlander
Committee Chair
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 3:00 pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by Swarthlander »

“The deliberations in Westminster are becoming increasingly irrelevant to the north of England. The northern cities feel far greater affinity with their Scottish counterparts such as Glasgow and Edinburgh than with the ideologies of the London-centric south.

“The needs and challenges of the north cannot be understood by the endless parade of old Etonions lining the frontbenches of the House of Commons.

“The north of England should join the newly independent Scotland and regain control over its own destiny.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/th ... ay-5692916" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Using the hashtag #TakeUsWithYou Scotland, the call appears to have originated in Sheffield.
Paul? :shock:




Just jesting. :P
"A lack of compassion is as vulgar as an excess of tears"
User avatar
rebeccariots2
Prime Minister
Posts: 14038
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:20 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

I'm sick of the non inclusivity of the would be leaders' messages so far ... working people, families. It should just be about citizens - what is the definition of a family now? If you are not working, don't you count?

Yesterday I had a long - and unexpected - talk with a bloke I garden for. I always thought he would be Ukip - and he is - but he used to vote Labour. I haven't got the energy or time to describe our conversation at the moment but whilst, yes, he displayed what I consider to be real prejudice - his discontent with the way politics and politicians have dealt with things over the past two decades can't just be dismissed on that basis. I realise I'm getting heartily sick of the rehearsed mantras that come out of the spokespeople just as many people like him have.
Working on the wild side.
User avatar
rebeccariots2
Prime Minister
Posts: 14038
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:20 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

ScarletGas wrote:Bore Da,

I was settling down last evening to watch the BBC news review at 10.30 until informed that the pompous, cliché ridden, empty headed clown known as Lord Digby Jones was going to be pontificating yet again.

It really is true that empty vessels do make the most noise.

Anyway I digress.

Scrambling for the remote I did something I have rarely done since Ian Katz got his hands on Newsnight and ventured there.

Liz Kendall, I thought handled the interview with Evan Davies quite well with some more of the positive assertion (rather than victim status) I have been looking for,but................not for me.

What a disappointment! Close your eyes and it could have been a "moderate" tory talking.

She seems to me to one of the so called "modernisers" (what a misnomer) determined to take us back to the blairite philosophy.

According to her Labour spent too much, election strategy aimed in the wrong areas, less than convincing answer regarding strike action. Seemed to me to be following the narrative being tried to be developed by Mandelson and his cronies (including those in the MSM) that we need to go back 10 years.

Sorry, she seems more of the problem rather than the solution to me.

Lets hope for better, more radical, well thought out, targeted proposals from the other contenders.
I wouldn't hold your breath. Sadly they seem to all lack the ability or courage to show any signs of having a 'character' that might just shine through all the learned politician behaviour. Damning of me I know but that's what I've seen so far.

Please will some fresh blood make an appearance in the contest. Please.
Working on the wild side.
User avatar
ephemerid
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2690
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:56 am

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by ephemerid »

Aspiration is the sucking in or sucking out of substances which shouldn't be where they are. Medically speaking, like.

So - whenever I hear some anagram of a politician intoning this word like a sacred mantra, my mind's eye sees naso-gastic tubes, pulmonary drains, or suction tubes being poked into abdominal cavities or endo-tracheal ventilator attachments.

PLEASE MAKE IT STOP.

On another note......

The eejit Osborne is now busy telling cities that if they elect a mayor, they can have devolution like Manchester.
Even though huge numbers of people in Greater Mancs didn't get to voice an opinion, this, apparently is A Good Thing.

I am now wondering if we will end up with a dozen city states - like mediaeval/renaissance Italy, with a Machiavelli advising its leaders - with the bits of England in between left to the mercies of Westminster.
I am struggling to work out how big urban areas having their own devolved powers (as Osborne seems to want) squares with One Nation Conservatism (which Cameron says he will govern by).

If we have 3 countries with devolved powers (and more of those powers if TCBBAC is to be believed) and any number of individual city states doing their own thing with devolved powers similar to what Wales has now (which is what Osborne wants) how the fuckety fuck will the Tories sort out EVEL, Barnett/Son of Barnett, the Scottish nationalists, and all those special deals that Northern Ireland has been getting?

Is it me, or this is all completely mad?
"Poverty is the worst form of violence" - Mahatma Gandhi
User avatar
frightful_oik
Whip
Posts: 954
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:45 am

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by frightful_oik »

ephemerid wrote:Aspiration is the sucking in or sucking out of substances which shouldn't be where they are. Medically speaking, like.

So - whenever I hear some anagram of a politician intoning this word like a sacred mantra, my mind's eye sees naso-gastic tubes, pulmonary drains, or suction tubes being poked into abdominal cavities or endo-tracheal ventilator attachments.

PLEASE MAKE IT STOP.

On another note......

The eejit Osborne is now busy telling cities that if they elect a mayor, they can have devolution like Manchester.
Even though huge numbers of people in Greater Mancs didn't get to voice an opinion, this, apparently is A Good Thing.

I am now wondering if we will end up with a dozen city states - like mediaeval/renaissance Italy, with a Machiavelli advising its leaders - with the bits of England in between left to the mercies of Westminster.
I am struggling to work out how big urban areas having their own devolved powers (as Osborne seems to want) squares with One Nation Conservatism (which Cameron says he will govern by).

If we have 3 countries with devolved powers (and more of those powers if TCBBAC is to be believed) and any number of individual city states doing their own thing with devolved powers similar to what Wales has now (which is what Osborne wants) how the fuckety fuck will the Tories sort out EVEL, Barnett/Son of Barnett, the Scottish nationalists, and all those special deals that Northern Ireland has been getting?

Is it me, or this is all completely mad?
Not completely mad, partly devious. If the Mancs elect a Lab mayor, as they surely would, and that mayor fucks up, it's a chance for the Tories to get some seats in the urban areas. Councils are less likely to fuck up and less likely to be completely blamed. Plus, by the adept use of smoke and mirrors, it keeps people's eyes off where the big decisions are being made. In short, it's designed to benefit the Tories.
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you-
Ye are many - they are few."
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15624
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

frightful_oik wrote:Anyone else feeling underwhelmed by the Labour leadership candidates so far? Or is it just me?
Yeah, know where you are coming from......

Kendall had been interesting and promising, but blotted her copybook last night with an interview poor in both style and content.

(did she really come out with anti union stuff, when she had - quite rightly - slagged off the Tories new proposed strike laws the PREVIOUS DAY??)

Burnham's initial offering was solid enough, but didn't get the pulse racing like he can - and yes, I worry about his "baggage".

Umunna - please no. No more comment needed - except that he is UKIP's dream Labour leader :twisted:

Cooper - kicked off her campaign by offering utterly hackneyed soundbites about "families" (hard working ones, no doubt) Offers nothing new or interesting.

Hunt - comes across well on TV I agree, but even now that is not everything. Lets be brutal about this shall we, is a public schoolboy called TRISTRAM going to win back Scottish voters or see off the UKIP menace in our northern heartlands? There is also the inconvenient fact that last week his seat saw the lowest turnout in the whole country (the only seat below 50%) and a drop in the Labour share from an already historically low level. And his record as shadow Education secretary wasn't exactly stellar......

Ah well, its early days - and I expect the hustings will be important just like they were last time. Ed seized the moment then - will anybody now? :?:
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
User avatar
AngryAsWell
Prime Minister
Posts: 5852
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:35 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by AngryAsWell »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:Anyone else feeling underwhelmed by the Labour leadership candidates so far? Or is it just me?
Yeah, know where you are coming from......

Kendall had been interesting and promising, but blotted her copybook last night with an interview poor in both style and content.

(did she really come out with anti union stuff, when she had - quite rightly - slagged off the Tories new proposed strike laws the PREVIOUS DAY??)

Burnham's initial offering was solid enough, but didn't get the pulse racing like he can - and yes, I worry about his "baggage".

Umunna - please no. No more comment needed - except that he is UKIP's dream Labour leader :twisted:

Cooper - kicked off her campaign by offering utterly hackneyed soundbites about "families" (hard working ones, no doubt) Offers nothing new or interesting.

Hunt - comes across well on TV I agree, but even now that is not everything. Lets be brutal about this shall we, is a public schoolboy called TRISTRAM going to win back Scottish voters or see off the UKIP menace in our northern heartlands? There is also the inconvenient fact that last week his seat saw the lowest turnout in the whole country (the only seat below 50%) and a drop in the Labour share from an already historically low level. And his record as shadow Education secretary wasn't exactly stellar......

Ah well, its early days - and I expect the hustings will be important just like they were last time. Ed seized the moment then - will anybody now? :?:
How about Keir Starmer? He has "gravitas", experience out of politics (was Director of Public Prosecutions) comes across well on camera, will be able to sort the torys HRA mess out.....and the right name as well! :lol:
utopiandreams
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2306
Joined: Mon 16 Mar, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

Sorry folks. Move along, nothing to see here. It seems my tardy farewell was only my penultimate post. This shall be the finale.

I was wondering who could conjure our much sought leadership. Who it was that could possibly pull off such a trick under the gaze of our pernicious media. Whereupon I thought, "Don't you just hate Paul Daniels? I far prefer the energy of Dynamo, for example. 'And then I recalled someone I once knew who was a member of the Magic Circle.

I have to say that some people really are magic or appear so when examined at really close quarters. No wonder I can dream. The chap I recall was charismatic too although we would fall out; he'd repeatedly splash pedestrians at bus stops with his Porsche, ffs. Never did have a Porsche myself, TR4 I believe at the time. Hurtling toward eachother in disused dockland warehouses and making the ladies piss their pants was much more fun.

Talking of chaps I am reminded of one who I have mocked and criticised before. Treating me as a long lost friend when I should never have really forgiven the time he cost me a grand, we bumped into eachother and caught up. after getting me round to look at his computer he showed me some of his writing he was working on. You can't blame him really, old mates are so much better than paying for stuff. Anyway he kept burbling on about how I should write given my wide and varied experience, even mentioning my life with a stroke victim and Downs Syndrome daughter. I just responded, "Who would want to know?"

Just remembered he also used to tell me to leave my mad wife as he put it, both before and after her stroke. Thought he was good with the ladies too... I didn't have to believe him just look at his. Sorry ladies, not a looker but she was nice; I liked her anyway. She once gave one of my employees a reference after her husband had lambasted him (YTS then take on another as soon as done).

Where was I? Oh yeah he forced me to read a passage from chapter 6 of the novel he was writing. I remained silent as I read of our hero, a womaniser and undercover agent in Tangier. After wandering a market and eating at a dinery our hero not only chatted up a woman, he bedded her in his apartment too. When done I really had nothing to say but he insisted I tell him what I thought. I laughed and suggested he wrote of what he knew. Not that I should really have laughed, okay he's never been to Morocco. Underxcover? Likely never had an adventure too. Bedroom scene? As he constantly reminded me, showing me pictures, he had a Filipino girlfriend now, many, many years his junior. As you were, I should have laughed.

Ooops did I mention his name? Sorted now, albeit a clue. Should he read this he'll know who I mean. Sorry mate you know I often lack tact and would likely say the same to your face.

Shut up, utopian, you're supposed to be reaching out. Ha, I very nearly called myself by name that time. Anyway my machine requires rebooting, so it tells me. Enjoy.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
User avatar
Swarthlander
Committee Chair
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri 13 Mar, 2015 3:00 pm
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by Swarthlander »

Totally agree Anatoly.
Umunna - as pointed out by someone at 'the other place' - his suit costs more than most folk earn in a month or more.
It's damn hard to be positive when they are feeding you total dross.
I don't want more of the same. :wall:

As for city devolution, we are going back to the days of the Barons.

And one more personal gripe - Scarborough council have failed to empty my bins two weeks in a row. :evil: Where's my pitchfork.
"A lack of compassion is as vulgar as an excess of tears"
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15624
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

AngryAsWell wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:Anyone else feeling underwhelmed by the Labour leadership candidates so far? Or is it just me?
Yeah, know where you are coming from......

Kendall had been interesting and promising, but blotted her copybook last night with an interview poor in both style and content.

(did she really come out with anti union stuff, when she had - quite rightly - slagged off the Tories new proposed strike laws the PREVIOUS DAY??)

Burnham's initial offering was solid enough, but didn't get the pulse racing like he can - and yes, I worry about his "baggage".

Umunna - please no. No more comment needed - except that he is UKIP's dream Labour leader :twisted:

Cooper - kicked off her campaign by offering utterly hackneyed soundbites about "families" (hard working ones, no doubt) Offers nothing new or interesting.

Hunt - comes across well on TV I agree, but even now that is not everything. Lets be brutal about this shall we, is a public schoolboy called TRISTRAM going to win back Scottish voters or see off the UKIP menace in our northern heartlands? There is also the inconvenient fact that last week his seat saw the lowest turnout in the whole country (the only seat below 50%) and a drop in the Labour share from an already historically low level. And his record as shadow Education secretary wasn't exactly stellar......

Ah well, its early days - and I expect the hustings will be important just like they were last time. Ed seized the moment then - will anybody now? :?:
How about Keir Starmer? He has "gravitas", experience out of politics (was Director of Public Prosecutions) comes across well on camera, will be able to sort the torys HRA mess out.....and the right name as well! :lol:
We just can't have somebody elected last week as Labour's new leader. Sorry :(
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
ScarletGas
Committee Chair
Posts: 205
Joined: Tue 17 Feb, 2015 12:05 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by ScarletGas »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:Anyone else feeling underwhelmed by the Labour leadership candidates so far? Or is it just me?
Yeah, know where you are coming from......

Kendall had been interesting and promising, but blotted her copybook last night with an interview poor in both style and content.

(did she really come out with anti union stuff, when she had - quite rightly - slagged off the Tories new proposed strike laws the PREVIOUS DAY??)

Burnham's initial offering was solid enough, but didn't get the pulse racing like he can - and yes, I worry about his "baggage".

Umunna - please no. No more comment needed - except that he is UKIP's dream Labour leader :twisted:

Cooper - kicked off her campaign by offering utterly hackneyed soundbites about "families" (hard working ones, no doubt) Offers nothing new or interesting.

Hunt - comes across well on TV I agree, but even now that is not everything. Lets be brutal about this shall we, is a public schoolboy called TRISTRAM going to win back Scottish voters or see off the UKIP menace in our northern heartlands? There is also the inconvenient fact that last week his seat saw the lowest turnout in the whole country (the only seat below 50%) and a drop in the Labour share from an already historically low level. And his record as shadow Education secretary wasn't exactly stellar......

Ah well, its early days - and I expect the hustings will be important just like they were last time. Ed seized the moment then - will anybody now? :?:
Anatoly,

Agree, she had encouraged me with the statement on the right to strike.

Last night she did not come out with anything that could be described as damning on unions but, from my perspective was equally pretty equivocal in response to Evan Davies regarding the RMT strike.

It is in these type of interview that I am looking for a positive,assertive response to questioning rather than the sort of anodyne,wishy washy,all things to all men/women answer we got last evening.

We need to see at least one of the contenders show a bit of charisma, fire and ambition and offer distinctive, radical alternatives.
User avatar
AngryAsWell
Prime Minister
Posts: 5852
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:35 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by AngryAsWell »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: Yeah, know where you are coming from......

Kendall had been interesting and promising, but blotted her copybook last night with an interview poor in both style and content.

(did she really come out with anti union stuff, when she had - quite rightly - slagged off the Tories new proposed strike laws the PREVIOUS DAY??)

Burnham's initial offering was solid enough, but didn't get the pulse racing like he can - and yes, I worry about his "baggage".

Umunna - please no. No more comment needed - except that he is UKIP's dream Labour leader :twisted:

Cooper - kicked off her campaign by offering utterly hackneyed soundbites about "families" (hard working ones, no doubt) Offers nothing new or interesting.

Hunt - comes across well on TV I agree, but even now that is not everything. Lets be brutal about this shall we, is a public schoolboy called TRISTRAM going to win back Scottish voters or see off the UKIP menace in our northern heartlands? There is also the inconvenient fact that last week his seat saw the lowest turnout in the whole country (the only seat below 50%) and a drop in the Labour share from an already historically low level. And his record as shadow Education secretary wasn't exactly stellar......

Ah well, its early days - and I expect the hustings will be important just like they were last time. Ed seized the moment then - will anybody now? :?:
How about Keir Starmer? He has "gravitas", experience out of politics (was Director of Public Prosecutions) comes across well on camera, will be able to sort the torys HRA mess out.....and the right name as well! :lol:
We just can't have somebody elected last week as Labour's new leader. Sorry :(
Dan Jarvis was only elected in October 2013 ....
Everyone keeps saying we want someone new :)
(he wont stand anyway was just tossing names around in my head and his popped up)
User avatar
Willow904
Prime Minister
Posts: 7220
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 2:40 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by Willow904 »

My husband was really proud of Bristol yesterday, when a group of 6th form students started a peaceful anti-austerity march that attracted thousands:

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/thousand-B ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rees-Mogg's comment in the article is a disgrace, accusing them of being "anti-democracy" and ignoring the result of the election. He completely ignores the fact that this march was organised by 6th form students, many of whom weren't old enough to vote. They are protesting about the way people who are already comfortable are taking decisions which are ruining the future prospects of young people. Free speech, the right to protest and oppose - aren't all these the cornerstones of a democratic society? A democratic government is supposed to govern in the interests of all, not just those who voted for them.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
User avatar
Willow904
Prime Minister
Posts: 7220
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 2:40 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by Willow904 »

Anti-Austerity March in Bristol 13/05/15:
Anti-austerity march bristol 13.05.15.jpg
Anti-austerity march bristol 13.05.15.jpg (104.37 KiB) Viewed 9812 times
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
User avatar
TheGrimSqueaker
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2192
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 12:23 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Hunt - comes across well on TV I agree, but even now that is not everything. Lets be brutal about this shall we, is a public schoolboy called TRISTRAM going to win back Scottish voters or see off the UKIP menace in our northern heartlands? There is also the inconvenient fact that last week his seat saw the lowest turnout in the whole country (the only seat below 50%) and a drop in the Labour share from an already historically low level. And his record as shadow Education secretary wasn't exactly stellar......
Hmmmm. I find myself in the odd position of defending "a public schoolboy called Tristram". I thought his vote share went up slightly, am I wrong? Also, when you comment about it being at "an already historically low level" are you taking into account the boundary changes which means the seat he represents is not quite the same as that held by Mark Fisher for so many years?

Some here speak fondly of a public schoolboy called Anthony Wedgewood, not many would reject his dedication to the cause over a period of decades; personally, if Tristram does choose to stand, I will judge him on his words and actions not on the accident of his birth and, if he proves to be a stronger candidate than any of the four already standing, will do my utmost to support him.
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
utopiandreams
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2306
Joined: Mon 16 Mar, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

Thought you were rid of me? I've just logged in to recommend Suzanne Moore's article in the G: Working-class Tories are not just turkeys voting for Christmas.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -christmas
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
utopiandreams
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2306
Joined: Mon 16 Mar, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

Willow904 wrote:Anti-Austerity March in Bristol 13/05/15:
Anti-austerity march bristol 13.05.15.jpg
Thanks Willow, may I take this opportunity to remind people of End Austerity Now - National Demonstration Saturday 20th June.
http://www.thepeoplesassembly.org.uk/calendar
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6173
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by gilsey »

Swarthlander wrote: And one more personal gripe - Scarborough council have failed to empty my bins two weeks in a row. :evil: Where's my pitchfork.
Too busy handing out parking tickets in Hambleton.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
utopiandreams
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2306
Joined: Mon 16 Mar, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

Swarthlander wrote:Totally agree Anatoly.
Umunna - as pointed out by someone at 'the other place' - his suit costs more than most folk earn in a month or more.
It's damn hard to be positive when they are feeding you total dross.
I don't want more of the same. :wall:

As for city devolution, we are going back to the days of the Barons.

And one more personal gripe - Scarborough council have failed to empty my bins two weeks in a row. :evil: Where's my pitchfork.
Not wishing to offend, Swarthlander, but I want to know, can we count on you? Which are you? The one really giving it to 'em or the one peering out from behind Eric Pickles?
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
utopiandreams
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2306
Joined: Mon 16 Mar, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

All this talk of Tristram got me thinking. What he needs is an appearance on some Q&A show, serious or comedic, but one where he faces down that opinionated historian who never stfu. His name escapes me as I type but but am about to Google before I post...

Put me out of my misery someone. The search term 'opinionated historian' does not give the expected result, but I'm sure you know who I mean; he's always popping up on the Beeb giving us his view..
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
User avatar
AngryAsWell
Prime Minister
Posts: 5852
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:35 pm

Re: Thursday 14th May 2015

Post by AngryAsWell »

Human Rights Information to Share

http://rightsinfo.org/about/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Locked