Tuesday 19th May 2015

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frightful_oik
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by frightful_oik »

RobertSnozers wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:
tinybgoat wrote: I agree with idea of moving on
& countering what's to come,
but suspect/fear this will be made harder by continual referral to supposed past failings, not sure it will make it easier if they're accepted by Labour.
Didn't help having dual attack from Tories & Libdems over last 5 years, maybe this aspect will be better this time.
I don't agree that Labour can let it lie. Firstly it's untrue. Secondly the Tories will just keep saying it if it's not challenged. Thirdly, if things go tits up under this government, (which I think they will), then people will turn to a third party if they think the other two are crap and that will be UKIP with its blame game and easy solutions. Not saying it will be easy, (thanks BBC), but Labour must challenge these myths wherever they're alleged or they become the truth.
They're already accepted as the truth. What can be done that hasn't already? And how much energy should be expended on making arguments that the electorate didn't buy for five years rather than tackling the failings of the current government? The Tories have been fighting on their own ground, raking over things circa 1997-2010 keeps it in their territory. Pointing out all the good that the last Labour government did is fine, but we can't keep fighting the last war. One reason people felt able to vote for Cameron in 2010 was that he wasn't associated with the cabinet during Black Thursday or with Thatcher. Just by being a new face (even though he'd actually been at the Treasury in 1992) he was acceptable. (And probably Labour was a bit too nice in not ramming home those pics of Norman Lamont with Cameron standing behind him announcing that the pound was screwed, but that's academic now too). Miliband and Balls were too associated with the last regime. I fear that Burnham and Cooper will be too. Kendall isn't. Creagh was around 05-10 too but not in the key departments and only as a junior minister so might get away with it (and has some good campaigning in her history). I suspect the only way Labour can get over 'no money left' is by skipping a generation.
We'll have to agree to disagree then Robert. My instinct says they challenge every time it's brought up. They do so with a unified line; e.g. the note - you point out it was a long standing tradition that outgoing chancellors left a note for their successor which apologised for the state of things. If they say Labour's mess, you point out that it was a mess created by those Tory donors, the bankers; or are they suggesting Labour caused the problems in 5 continents? Repeat that they wanted to match Labour spending plans, de-regulate the banks etc. It only takes a sentence to challenge any of these lies but they must be challenged or they are deemed to be true.
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you-
Ye are many - they are few."
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

seeingclearly wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:I particularly get miffed on Health because the public health and awareness actions they took had lasting and beneficial results and those same initiatives no longer exist. A lost of my work in those years was at the delivery end of such stuff, often not in direct delivery but in documenting and enabling local participation in genuine consultation on what local areas needed and how best things could be delivered. Exactly what many people are crying out for in fact. The health action zones (HAZ) were one such example of these. Nobody got left out, and the results were good, it was preventative health provision at its best tackling the causes, not just the symptoms. I was a very small player, so claim no credit, I'll say though there were some extremely good thinkers doing the right things. I'll not say that this was the whole picture though, because where funding goes vested interests follow, and that was rearing a rather ugly head, too. But that doesn't take away from the fact that there was some amazing work done with lasting effect in a very integrated way that brought cost effective results. It costs the state a lot to support deprived disenfranchised people, as we can see, and it makes me mad that the narratives are all about flower vases and PFI.
Yes, that's very true. It angers me that so much good work was axed on Day One of the coalition that could have helped with the problems we've faced over the last few years. Labour's approach should have been to vociferously defend its record where it was not just defensible but laudable, but that never seemed to have cut through. Perhaps, in retrospect, Ed Miliband's 'softly softly' approach to party unity meant that too many difficult questions about the approach to tackling the coalition's failings didn't really get tackled.
It's been a hard time for Labour, when everything they said to defend themselves was turned to muck and served up as a denunciatory sound byte. I don't think it was softly softly so much as not starting up the toxic messages that made matters worse. All the accusations were, tbf, aired in the proper place, parliament, and refuted effectively by Labour, though it was always hard to hear their message through the jeering.

I don't think we should buy into this notion that Labour didn't defend itself. How the heck could they given the bias. We should instead be educating people to see how their views are manipulated.
(my bold)

Agreed, thank you for articulating what I've been thinking too. We're blatantly lied to regularly by people seemingly impervious to accountability. Osborne claiming negative interests rates are a positive thing. Dave says he's kept his promise of not hurting & reorganising the NHS. Tories say what they like regardless of truth about Labour policy, leaders, members, supporters, voters or anyone, anything & the lies aren't stopped. Lies continue because no equal force countering lies with truth currently functions effectively or adequately penalises liars. So the same lies get told some more.

We have to acknowledge our decision-making processes are influenced by what others with more resources have bought for us to look at & hear often without our being consciously aware - or we a nagging sense of awareness of but are too busy working, surviving, getting to places on time or caring for others, to follow up on looking, understanding without fear.

Billions pumped into advertising, televised programs, ads plastered all over buses & billboards for one purpose. We see & hear what those spending billions dominating our environment & communities decide they want shown & said. We're often without the benefit of a physical community coming together regularly for the purpose of rationally talking about what is real & what's a fiction during our days looking & hearing what billions of pounds have purchased for us to see & hear.

We have to admit how vulnerable we are individually to circumstances beyond our control. We're limited to how much we can realistically control individually on any given day. We are literally less free. We don't get to decide to hear less noise, see fewer advertisements, breathe cleaner air or stop fast moving vehicles. I'm describing a profound loss each of us experience & can't change alone.

Irrational anger directed at innocent people or groups is normal as well as repugnant; it's a coping mechanism used when something powerful is causing us anxiety & we can't get at the source causing problems.
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

ohsocynical wrote:Ed's positive campaign failed to click with enough people. Decency and caring didn't do it.

Tories scraped though on negative campaigning.

I'd like to see Labour play the Tories at their own game. Make aggressive attacks on Tory policies. Ram the figures home. Show no mercy.

Lets get the lies and bad statistics firmly wedged in people's brains now.
Keep repeating if there's one more MP or high up that repeats the lie about Stafford they'll sue.

After all. What have we got to lose?
Yes, I agree. Using effective aggression needs to be like that of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. - tell the truth without ceasing, publicly, without violence, don't stray from clear communication ever, stay organised, know your own heart, know what you want & keep demanding it with every voice wanting the same justice over & over. Many people will live to benefit from that work.
seeingclearly
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by seeingclearly »

RobertSnozers wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:
tinybgoat wrote: I agree with idea of moving on
& countering what's to come,
but suspect/fear this will be made harder by continual referral to supposed past failings, not sure it will make it easier if they're accepted by Labour.
Didn't help having dual attack from Tories & Libdems over last 5 years, maybe this aspect will be better this time.
I don't agree that Labour can let it lie. Firstly it's untrue. Secondly the Tories will just keep saying it if it's not challenged. Thirdly, if things go tits up under this government, (which I think they will), then people will turn to a third party if they think the other two are crap and that will be UKIP with its blame game and easy solutions. Not saying it will be easy, (thanks BBC), but Labour must challenge these myths wherever they're alleged or they become the truth.
They're already accepted as the truth. What can be done that hasn't already? And how much energy should be expended on making arguments that the electorate didn't buy for five years rather than tackling the failings of the current government? The Tories have been fighting on their own ground, raking over things circa 1997-2010 keeps it in their territory. Pointing out all the good that the last Labour government did is fine, but we can't keep fighting the last war. One reason people felt able to vote for Cameron in 2010 was that he wasn't associated with the cabinet during Black Thursday or with Thatcher. Just by being a new face (even though he'd actually been at the Treasury in 1992) he was acceptable. (And probably Labour was a bit too nice in not ramming home those pics of Norman Lamont with Cameron standing behind him announcing that the pound was screwed, but that's academic now too). Miliband and Balls were too associated with the last regime. I fear that Burnham and Cooper will be too. Kendall isn't. Creagh was around 05-10 too but not in the key departments and only as a junior minister so might get away with it (and has some good campaigning in her history). I suspect the only way Labour can get over 'no money left' is by skipping a generation.
If you can't point out that we had a better society than we do now, how can you counter any of the deranged thinking of the present? I'm constantly reminded of this dilemma by people in mourning because we got this result, a Tory government, but are unable to complete the circle by admitting that the reason for their fear and bewilderment is because we are losing those better things we valued.

Without some kind of reflective thinking and breaking through the lies I don't see how anything can improve. Violence, history tells us, might bring progress eventually, after the madness is over, but in the short term is an expression of revenge and often hits the wrong people. So I'd say there's a very important role that the past plays in how the future develops, and establishing a more accurate view is part of that. Every nation I know of that has gone through the whole cycle is proof of this. And there have been many in my lifetime. Why should we be different. It's this very factor, a mistaken need to erase the past that enables the destruction. It's not just about defending Labours past, it's about defending our past and appraising it honestly. Unfortunately, as I've mentioned before, I think, history doesn't record very well the history of nations that drew close to the brink, and then regained sanity and stepped back. If anyone has good examples of this, that we could examine to see how they avoided disaster, it could be useful.

It's very concerning that there's now a huge amount of people who are unlikely to be appeased by Tory action and whose views have taken hold. Their anger isn't going to be appeased by Cameron.

Yet we do, and there's plenty of evidence for this, have a majority of people who are left leaning and looking for solutions. You can fight some of the nonsense even with simple apolitical statements like remember the sure start centres, they really worked well (they did), and showing how cost effective they were. The same goes for hundreds of other things.

If the Tories could create a nostalgia for an England that never existed why can't Labour create a nostalgia for an England that did? Something to counter the unremitting shouts of 'its Labour wot did it'.

Oh and sack any Labour PR marketing people. Please.
seeingclearly
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by seeingclearly »

Why is no one talking about this? Surely it should have a higher priority.

Trident whistleblower William mcNeilly turns himself in....

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... are_btn_fb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

I agree that Mary Creagh is interesting - if there is to be a Cameron-style "dark horse" in this contest, I suspect it may be her.

(though she has a lot to prove just yet)

I was intrigued with her answer recently to the "spent too much" accusation, though. Along the lines of "yes maybe we did, and it is easy to say such a thing in hindsight - but I certainly don't regret all that spending on schools, hospitals, childcare, infrastructure". This was claimed by some to be trying to have it both ways - but I'm not sure that is really fair? It is probably a fair approximation to what quite a few voters think, too......
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
ohsocynical
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Ed's positive campaign failed to click with enough people. Decency and caring didn't do it.

Tories scraped though on negative campaigning.

I'd like to see Labour play the Tories at their own game. Make aggressive attacks on Tory policies. Ram the figures home. Show no mercy.

Lets get the lies and bad statistics firmly wedged in people's brains now.
Keep repeating if there's one more MP or high up that repeats the lie about Stafford they'll sue.

After all. What have we got to lose?
Yes, I agree. Using effective aggression needs to be like that of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. - tell the truth without ceasing, publicly, without violence, don't stray from clear communication ever, stay organised, know your own heart, know what you want & keep demanding it with every voice wanting the same justice over & over. Many people will live to benefit from that work.
We've all agreed at one time or another on here. Tory brainwashing that Labour caused the world wide banking crisis, idiotic as it was/is, worked. In fact is still working.

Labour need to do the same. All the time we see postings saying 'we have to fight this'. So lets bloody fight.
My God there is so much to choose from.
If it were me, I'd drag out every statistic, false statement, insult, and sell off, then avoiding hostile media unless invited, ram it home, over and over and over.
YouTube, billboards, FaceBook, social media blogs, and regular hard hitting mailings or deliveries by local parties...Not brilliant but it would set the tone.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
tinybgoat
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by tinybgoat »

seeingclearly wrote:Why is no one talking about this? Surely it should have a higher priority.

Trident whistleblower William mcNeilly turns himself in....

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... are_btn_fb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The SVP* has a short-standing position of not commenting on matters that only affect Scotland. The Impending Nuclear disaster is one such matter that purely affects Scotlane, and so SVP MPs would comment on this issue. However, SVP MPs will always be a voice for the protection of our environment
and wildlife.

(* Sheffield Vindictive Party)
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

We need the benefit of a physical community coming together regularly for the purpose of rationally talking about what is real & what's a fiction during our days looking & hearing what billions of pounds have purchased for us to see & hear.
Some thoughts - please note, social care & civic intelligence training aren't the same.

I'm a social introvert, often experiencing discomfort when I'm in groups of people. Feel drained. One-on-one interaction with friends & family is preferable. Practising with larger groups of people regularly may help make discomfort less. My work as a caregiver teaches someone like me is too isolated & vulnerable when they've lost a connection & need help.

Most people don't have enough money to buy a social network system capable of around the clock care & social support necessary to keep healthy & functional. A combination of friends, community clubs, family & additional social care assistance when necessary when others can't help is fundamental to meeting human needs.

What to do when the few powerful influential tell lies not repudiated effectively.
In addition to the social media we engage in here people need regular contact with others in person.
I've no idea how to coordinate that; it's hard finding the time, energy, funding & forum to make it happen.
If we all had allotment gardens together, that'd probably work.
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

ohsocynical wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Ed's positive campaign failed to click with enough people. Decency and caring didn't do it.

Tories scraped though on negative campaigning.

I'd like to see Labour play the Tories at their own game. Make aggressive attacks on Tory policies. Ram the figures home. Show no mercy.

Lets get the lies and bad statistics firmly wedged in people's brains now.
Keep repeating if there's one more MP or high up that repeats the lie about Stafford they'll sue.

After all. What have we got to lose?
Yes, I agree. Using effective aggression needs to be like that of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. - tell the truth without ceasing, publicly, without violence, don't stray from clear communication ever, stay organised, know your own heart, know what you want & keep demanding it with every voice wanting the same justice over & over. Many people will live to benefit from that work.
We've all agreed at one time or another on here. Tory brainwashing that Labour caused the world wide banking crisis, idiotic as it was/is, worked. In fact is still working.

Labour need to do the same. All the time we see postings saying 'we have to fight this'. So lets bloody fight.
My God there is so much to choose from.
If it were me, I'd drag out every statistic, false statement, insult, and sell off, then avoiding hostile media unless invited, ram it home, over and over and over.
YouTube, billboards, FaceBook, social media blogs, and regular hard hitting mailings or deliveries by local parties...Not brilliant but it would set the tone.
I'm with you, Ohso, always.
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

seeingclearly wrote:Why is no one talking about this? Surely it should have a higher priority.

Trident whistleblower William mcNeilly turns himself in....

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... are_btn_fb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
'Apprehended' the military said. 'Handed himself in', according to his brother.
seeingclearly
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by seeingclearly »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I agree that Mary Creagh is interesting - if there is to be a Cameron-style "dark horse" in this contest, I suspect it may be her.

(though she has a lot to prove just yet)

I was intrigued with her answer recently to the "spent too much" accusation, though. Along the lines of "yes maybe we did, and it is easy to say such a thing in hindsight - but I certainly don't regret all that spending on schools, hospitals, childcare, infrastructure". This was claimed by some to be trying to have it both ways - but I'm not sure that is really fair? It is probably a fair approximation to what quite a few voters think, too......
There must be data on the stuff that Creagh mentions. The Tories blind us with figure and devastate us on a few 'sins'. But how did things like hospitals, childcare, infrastructure impact on our lives? What would it look like if we took those things away, if they had never happened? I was a distinct beneficiary of the Labour years, but had to work my socks off for it. Given the increases in overtime in the period I guess a lot of people did. But we see no comparative figures on the benefits that pending bought us, not in a way the public can absorb. How many parents empowered to work by child tax credits for instance? The positives.

Cameron keeps talking about the burden future generations, our children and grandchildren have. Well I've got both and life isn't looking great for them, and I can't buy into it at all. They don't give a toss about our children and grandchildren, they are selling off their inheritance faster than we can see. When they use the word 'our' they do not do so in an inclusive way, they take us for mugs.

I'm particularly angry today, because of the immediate impact of policy, and where it's pushing my family, as I'm not among the worse affected this gives me the horrors. I want some people who'll keep telling it truthfully. This is not a good place to be, though many will no doubt have a great summer and wonder what the fuss was about. :fire: :fire: :fire:
tinybgoat
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by tinybgoat »

tinybgoat wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:Why is no one talking about this? Surely it should have a higher priority.

Trident whistleblower William mcNeilly turns himself in....

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... are_btn_fb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The SVP* has a short-standing position of not commenting on matters that only affect Scotland. The Impending Nuclear disaster is one such matter that purely affects Scotlane, and so SVP MPs would comment on this issue. However, SVP MPs will always be a voice for the protection of our environment
and wildlife.

(* Sheffield Vindictive Party)
“Unlike some whistleblowers out there who release information without consideration,
put lives at risk and reduce security: I only included essential information, I tried the
chain of command route, sources were referred to by rank instead of name, there was
information I never released that would’ve helped the report but it would’ve caused a
security risk … My motives are clearly to protect the people and land. Whatever happens,
don’t worry about me; I’ll be alright.”
McNeilly now faces the prospect of military disciplinary action by the Royal Navy police
and a criminal prosecution under the Official Secrets Act, which can carry a lengthy
prison sentence.
An online petition calling on the MoD and Crown Prosecution Service to grant McNeilly
clemency has so far attracted more than 2,700 signatories.


https://www.change.org/p/ministry-of-de ... tle-blower
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

Just out from the ONS today.
Excluding London and the South East, UK house prices increased by 8.1% in the 12 months to March 2015.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/hpi/house ... -2015.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ain' no making it.
thatchersorphan
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by thatchersorphan »

Almost a third of schoolchildren believe that Muslims are “taking over our country” http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 61565.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
brainwash them young into hating the other...
tinybgoat
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by tinybgoat »

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ew-members

quote is from new member,
like the needing support of less than one mp:-

“I felt that British politics was going to be the worse for not having the Liberal Democrats
in it,” he said, adding that many new members thought the party had a positive record in
government and should stick firmly to the centre ground.
The Lib Dem leadership election is expected to be a head-to-head battle between Farron,
MP for Westmorland and Lonsdale and former party president, and Norman Lamb , MP for
North Norfolk and a former care minister.
To get on the ballot, a candidate must have the endorsement of 200 members from 20 local
party organisations as well as 10% of the parliamentary party, which amounts to needing
the support of less than one of the eight remaining Lib Dem MPs. The members will cast
their ballots under an alternative vote system and the winner will be announced on 16
July.
thatchersorphan
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by thatchersorphan »

https://butlincat.wordpress.com/2015/05 ... o-missing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; more links to irregularities here and I fixed the broken link I found on it : http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/General- ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I didnt watch the video, am posting the link because of the additional links on it
ohsocynical
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

Scott Redding ‏@Scott_Redding 1 hour ago

Smart move by Labour << RT @jonwalker121:

Scott Redding ‏@Scott_Redding 1 hour ago

Labour plans leadership hustings in marginals it failed to win

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/mi ... st-9280648
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
ohsocynical
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

Andy For Leader ‏@LabourAndy May 16

Andy Burnham "The Tories have had a triumph of spin over facts" #pac15
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
Eric_WLothian
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by Eric_WLothian »

ohsocynical wrote:Andy For Leader ‏@LabourAndy May 16

Andy Burnham "The Tories have had a triumph of spin over facts" #pac15
Talking of Andys (or should that be Andies?):

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/t ... -1-3776644
ohsocynical
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

I've had my daughter who lives in the US tell me London is now a no go area...That's from listening to Fox News...Another of Murdochs news outlets.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

thatchersorphan wrote:https://butlincat.wordpress.com/2015/05 ... o-missing/ more links to irregularities here and I fixed the broken link I found on it : http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/General- ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I didnt watch the video, am posting the link because of the additional links on it
Do Tories & UKIP really want to get into delving into electoral 'irregularities' they're conjuring out of their a****? Please do, guys. All of it. Every vote from every constituency. Let's see what we'll find out. I tell you this. Anything A Tory or right-wing big mouth accuse others of, they've just let drop what they've been up to.
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

ohsocynical wrote:Scott Redding ‏@Scott_Redding 1 hour ago

Smart move by Labour << RT @jonwalker121:

Scott Redding ‏@Scott_Redding 1 hour ago
Labour plans leadership hustings in marginals it failed to win

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/mi ... st-9280648
...rather than speaking to Labour activists in seats where the party did well, candidates will have to address a mixed audience of voters in a seat where Labour had a chance of winning - but failed.
This meant seats like Halesowen, Dudley South or possibly North Warwickshire, Mrs Harman said.
She said: “We’ve got to hear from people who don’t like us. And we’ve got to see how our leadership candidates can reach out to them.”
thatchersorphan
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by thatchersorphan »

RobertSnozers wrote:
thatchersorphan wrote:Almost a third of schoolchildren believe that Muslims are “taking over our country” http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 61565.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
brainwash them young into hating the other...
The thing is, it's not just children. A month or two ago, my normally intelligent mother-in-law breezily asked me and my wife what we were planning to do when the Muslims take over.

The children get it from their parents, as well as friends - although some of us rebel. I had a miner/union hating racist mother and I went the opposite way. I think us rebellers are increasingly a minority. The thing with propaganda is its so insidious - language matters, and by now even the intelligent have had years of this going into their subconscious. Try not watching tv for several years - then watch it, and you see very clearly even the subtle pronunciation they give to words. Its why I prefer written news, its easier to go through slowly and pick apart and you aren't being affected by tone of voice.
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

ohsocynical wrote:I've had my daughter who lives in the US tell me London is now a no go area...That's from listening to Fox News...Another of Murdochs news outlets.
Ach, these stories surface periodically. The Standard ran something similar in the mid-80s, describing a corridor stretching from the Elephant to Thornton Heath as "Murder Mile", where the inhabitants were afraid to leave their houses after dark; aside from the fact that is an eight mile stretch, it was news to those of us who did live there - I lived in Streatham at the time, roughly the halfway point, and jampacked with very busy pubs, restuarants and wine bars into the wee small hours.
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Cathy Newman ‏@cathynewman 16m16 minutes ago
Coming up on #c4news @David_Cameron's friend @SteveHiltonx tells me he'd probably stand as an independent if as expected he runs for office
He couldn't be anything other than independent - with this amount of bottle. Please buy him a ticket back to California.
Jim Pickard @PickardJE · 1h 1 hour ago
SteveHilton disowns Tory green project, saying was meant to be about parks, beaches & nature: "Not so much carbon targets & climate change."

James Cameron @CameronJJJ · 1h 1 hour ago
James Cameron retweeted Jim Pickard
Ah. Presumably why he & Cameron went to the arctic: lots of parks, beaches & not much to do with climate change.
And that'll be why they were so keen to get on with selling off our forests, slaughtering badgers, putting other species on the wanted dead list, doing their best to try and make sure neonicotinoids weren't banned by the EU ... they were really really standing up for and protecting nature eh?
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

Just seen Steve Hilton on Channel 4 News and was surprised to find that I would probably like him. He spoke well of our acting Prime Minister, who I believe says anything that suits his purpose, nevertheless felt we'd somehow had the wrong guy.

Oops, have I said the wrong thing?
Last edited by utopiandreams on Tue 19 May, 2015 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

ohsocynical wrote:I've had my daughter who lives in the US tell me London is now a no go area...That's from listening to Fox News...Another of Murdochs news outlets.
Do they mean a no go area for anyone who isn't earning at least £30,000 and already on the housing ladder? It is fast becoming a no go area for those on low pay or social security and in rented accommodation.
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

thatchersorphan wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
thatchersorphan wrote:Almost a third of schoolchildren believe that Muslims are “taking over our country” http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 61565.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
brainwash them young into hating the other...
The thing is, it's not just children. A month or two ago, my normally intelligent mother-in-law breezily asked me and my wife what we were planning to do when the Muslims take over.

The children get it from their parents, as well as friends - although some of us rebel. I had a miner/union hating racist mother and I went the opposite way. I think us rebellers are increasingly a minority. The thing with propaganda is its so insidious - language matters, and by now even the intelligent have had years of this going into their subconscious. Try not watching tv for several years - then watch it, and you see very clearly even the subtle pronunciation they give to words. Its why I prefer written news, its easier to go through slowly and pick apart and you aren't being affected by tone of voice.
Exactly! I abstain from a lot of visual media. Some of the most powerful, positive uses of visual imagery are captured too.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Apologies for the truncated link - it's just a snippet.

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utopiandreams
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

@citizenJA & thatchersorphan

Whatever the perfidy of our government I think deliberate electoral fraud is a step too far even for them. Not saying irregularities should not be examined, of course.
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

thatchersorphan wrote:... Try not watching tv for several years - then watch it, and you see very clearly even the subtle pronunciation they give to words. Its why I prefer written news, its easier to go through slowly and pick apart and you aren't being affected by tone of voice.
It rather depends on where your news is sourced, thatchersorphan, Framing the argument is as much a part of propaganda as tone, which is why I prefer as wide a source as practicable including foreign ones.
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citizenJA
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

utopiandreams wrote:@citizenJA & thatchersorphan

Whatever the perfidy of our government I think deliberate electoral fraud is a step too far even for them. Not saying irregularities should not be examined, of course.
Well.
I'm without proof of deliberate electoral fraud at this time.
I'm drowning in Tory MPs' dishonourable word & conduct.
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:I've had my daughter who lives in the US tell me London is now a no go area...That's from listening to Fox News...Another of Murdochs news outlets.
Do they mean a no go area for anyone who isn't earning at least £30,000 and already on the housing ladder? It is fast becoming a no go area for those on low pay or social security and in rented accommodation.
I hesitated to say it. A Muslim takeover. We're under Shia law. And other cities. You never heard such rubbish.

I usually end up rowing with her...
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by RogerOThornhill »

utopiandreams wrote:Just seen Steve Hilton on Channel 4 News and was surprised to find that I would probably like him. He spoke well of our acting Prime Minister, who I believe says anything that suits his purpose, nevertheless felt we'd somehow had the wrong guy.

Oops, have I said the wrong thing?
Hilton has a book to sell - he was on Newsnight saying much the same thing as Miliband on big business.

Shame he didn't say this before the election though...
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

RogerOThornhill wrote:
utopiandreams wrote:Just seen Steve Hilton on Channel 4 News and was surprised to find that I would probably like him. He spoke well of our acting Prime Minister, who I believe says anything that suits his purpose, nevertheless felt we'd somehow had the wrong guy.

Oops, have I said the wrong thing?
Hilton has a book to sell - he was on Newsnight saying much the same thing as Miliband on big business.

Shame he didn't say this before the election though...
Hilton also doesn't seem to get that he was used to manufacture and sell the modernising, compassionate, green Cameron bullshit image. It was only an image to get elected with ... once in power Cameron pretty quickly dropped all pretence to any of that stuff.

Hilton is no longer needed, he is dispensable ... he is blue skies crap and can be discarded along with the fake green crap and Cameron's silly little roof mounted wind turbine.
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by thatchersorphan »

utopiandreams wrote:@citizenJA & thatchersorphan

Whatever the perfidy of our government I think deliberate electoral fraud is a step too far even for them. Not saying irregularities should not be examined, of course.

Yes. I think they used dirty tricks campaigns rather than actually messing with votes, however if they are mistakes happening, even if completely unintentional they need to be known about, so future polling officials etc can learn from them.
I've not followed previous elections closely, so I'm not sure how normal f-ups are either.
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

I brought chocolate to keep my energy levels up when I was Telling on Election day.

I've just found it. :o :D
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

ohsocynical wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:I've had my daughter who lives in the US tell me London is now a no go area...That's from listening to Fox News...Another of Murdochs news outlets.
Do they mean a no go area for anyone who isn't earning at least £30,000 and already on the housing ladder? It is fast becoming a no go area for those on low pay or social security and in rented accommodation.
I hesitated to say it. A Muslim takeover. We're under Shia law. And other cities. You never heard such rubbish.

I usually end up rowing with her...
How depressing Ohso. Sympathies, that must be hard to take.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Adam Boulton ‏@adamboultonSKY 3m3 minutes ago London, England
has anyone ever subscibed to @TheSunNewspaper + online ? Absolutely useless always shutting you out, cancelling subs etc, I give up.
:lol: That's cheered me up on several counts.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

James O'Brien ‏@mrjamesob 28m28 minutes ago Hounslow, London
Farage could not have responded to 'snarling, thin-skinned & aggressive' accusations in a more snarling, thin-skinned & aggressive manner...
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

RogerOThornhill wrote:
utopiandreams wrote:Just seen Steve Hilton on Channel 4 News and was surprised to find that I would probably like him. He spoke well of our acting Prime Minister, who I believe says anything that suits his purpose, nevertheless felt we'd somehow had the wrong guy.

Oops, have I said the wrong thing?
Hilton has a book to sell - he was on Newsnight saying much the same thing as Miliband on big business.

Shame he didn't say this before the election though...
Cheers, Roger. I didn't see it all just walked into the room and it was already on.
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

rebeccariots2 wrote:... he is blue skies crap...
Mmm, I wonder who that reminds me of, rebecca
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Adam Boulton ‏@adamboultonSKY 3m3 minutes ago London, England
has anyone ever subscibed to @TheSunNewspaper + online ? Absolutely useless always shutting you out, cancelling subs etc, I give up.
:lol: That's cheered me up on several counts.
I just mentioned as wide a source of news as is practicable. Well there are some places that even I would not go.
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

I don't know what's on telly at the moment, just background noise after Channel 4 News. Is it wrong of me to say that the female presenter is a barrel of laughs? She was being shown some dancing moves at the time. Turn the damn thing off, utopian, unless there's something you want to watch
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by RogerOThornhill »

On the education front, it appears that Graham Stuart is not standing for committee chair again which is a real shame as I thought he was excellent. His report seems to have been completely ignored by the DfE though who continue their merry way with academies as if everything was fine and they were a proven success.

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/graham-stuart- ... chairship/

If it has to be a Tory then better Neil Carmichael than Caroline Nokes - even better would be Pat Glass who was Stuart's right hand woman (literally).
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Education pt 2.

Laura McInerney did a thing with Nicky Morgan and Jonathan Simons and although I didn't hear it this seems ominous.

Laura McInerney
‏@miss_mcinerney
Biggest worry from today's #SWebinar with @NickyMorgan01 : Lack of plan for developing good academy sponsors (or school improvement peeps)


So...the Edu Select committee said that the DfE didn't seem to have any clear idea about what made a good sponsor. Nor will they have in future by the look of that.

And this...given the determination to convert coasting schools to academies.

Laura McInerney ‏@miss_mcinerney May 18
@MichaelT1979 @hrogerson @NickyMorgan01 RSCs will write to schools flagged as poor for progress and ask to see plans for improvement.


So the Regional Commissioners now have jurisdiction over local authority schools and can demand things from them?

Since when? I can see this being a flash point with local authorities - some of whom will just tell their schools to ignore anything that comes from the RSCs who are supposed to only cover academies and free schools.

Talk about mission creep...and yes I know that Labour and the LibDems wanted local education commissioners to cover all schools but there were supposed to be dozens of them not the 8 that we now have! And they were supposed to be chosen locally not simply in the gift of the Sec of State.

I'm waiting for the 'Northern Powerhouse' to demand control of schools in the area as well as everything else.
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Voting By Age Bracket.jpg
Voting By Age Bracket.jpg (61.29 KiB) Viewed 7856 times
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I hadn't realised until now that Labour outpolled the Tories last Thursday in every age bracket except for the 65+
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by danesclose »

ohsocynical wrote:I've had my daughter who lives in the US tell me London is now a no go area...That's from listening to Fox News...Another of Murdochs news outlets.
Fox News recently described Birmingham as being a "Muslim-only city" where non-Muslims "don't go" & that in London "Muslim religious police" beat "anyone who doesn't dress according to Muslim, religious Muslim attire".
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

danesclose wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:I've had my daughter who lives in the US tell me London is now a no go area...That's from listening to Fox News...Another of Murdochs news outlets.
Fox News recently described Birmingham as being a "Muslim-only city" where non-Muslims "don't go" & that in London "Muslim religious police" beat "anyone who doesn't dress according to Muslim, religious Muslim attire".
She listens to Fox News religiously. And believes it...I despair. I dread it when she rings me.
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Re: Tuesday 19th May 2015

Post by RogerOThornhill »

From Michael Rosen...
Government Academies Policy Explained


If your academy needs improvement it will be converted into…an academy because…er…academies are better, because they are…er…academies….apart from your academy…which is…er worse…but will get better when it's…an academy….
:D
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