Wednesday 20th May 2015

Post by **refitman** » Wed 20 May, 2015 7:13 am

Morning all.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 8:26 am

Morning.

Woken up to Farage on Radio 4. We just haven't seen or heard enough of him recently ...

MichaelWhite ‏@MichaelWhite 3m3 minutes ago
Nigel Farage on R4's Today. Fluent as ever, but he seems to be in denial. "Ukip ran the most positive election campaign" he says. United too

norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 2m2 minutes ago
The public agreed with me over my criticism of immigrants coming to UK with HIV - @nigelfarage @BBCr4today

Julia Goldsworthy ‏@jgoldsworthy 7m7 minutes ago
Why does Farage think EU ref will be next May? Electoral Commission says shouldn't be on same day as other elections @BBCr4today

Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft 11h11 hours ago
Neither write off @UKIP nor @Nigel_Farage . Like them or not they will regroup and survive. They came 2nd in 120 seats.

Unfortunately I think Ashcroft is very right.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 8:41 am

Steve Hilton’s privileged view of our chumocracy must not be dismissed
Owen Jones
The left should embrace all allies – even architects of austerity – in the fight to expose our cliquey elites
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... left-elite" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“The corporate bosses, the MPs, the journalists … all go to the same dinner parties and social events; all live near one another; all send their children to the same schools,” cries comrade Hilton. He has a point. The talented former Telegraph deputy editor Benedict Brogan – sadly now purged – told me of journalists (whose theoretical job is to challenge those with political power) dinner-partying, drinking and going on holiday with MPs – or even becoming godparents to their children.

But it’s not simply about social connections and piss-ups. “They flit and float between Westminster, Whitehall and the City; regardless of who’s in office, the same people are in power,” reports the revolutionary Jacobin Hilton. In other words, the powerful are bound together by a revolving door. Boris Johnson is now mayor of London, a Tory MP with a cabinet post, and, as a Telegraph columnist, the recipient of a six-figure salary (which he once described as “chickenfeed”) from the undoubtedly grateful Barclay Brothers. David Cameron, Boris Johnson, George Osborne: all recruited their spinners from that supposed hotbed of pinko leftiness the BBC. Major accountancy firms complicit in tax avoidance help draw up tax laws, then help their clients get around the laws they themselves have written: “cases of poacher turned gamekeeper, turned poacher again”, as the House of Commons public accounts committee puts it.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 9:14 am

Jonathan Reynolds MP retweeted
Jonathan Simons ‏@PXEducation May 15
I never knew this - how Apprenticeship numbers don't refer to number of people undertaking one (@NickLinford) http://feweek.co.uk/2015/05/15/enter-ap ... tre-stage/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

... The Conservatives have chosen to use apprenticeship starts as their target, which is a figure published in official Statistical First Releases. This means within the FE sector it is already well understood and credible as a measure. However, how many listening to the Prime Minister would realise this 3m is neither the number of people, nor does it mean they passed the apprenticeship?

Firstly, many of the 3m starting an advanced apprenticeship are being counted for the second time, having already achieved an intermediate apprenticeship.

In fact, apprentices joining the accountancy profession often enters at level two and progresses to level three and then continues on to level four. They would be counted three times towards the 3m target.

Hard as it may be to believe, the number of individuals participating in apprenticeships has never been published, and efforts by FE Week to find out the number through a freedom of information request have been rebuffed.

Surely it would be better to count people benefiting — let’s call them ‘apprenticeship entrants’ — to avoid this double or triple counting. This would also save me shouting “wrong!” every time a politician refers to the number of ‘people’ doing an apprenticeship...

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 20 May, 2015 9:17 am

I'm in a dilemma - can I trust this poll?

Trust in pollsters falls, according to new poll
http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/trust-i ... -1-3777757

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 9:22 am

: Essential Kit for Detoxifying Tory Party.jpg (23.94 KiB) Viewed 10350 times

Denis Skinner @BolsoverBeast · 3m 3 minutes ago
The essential kit required if Cameron plans to detoxify the Tory party.

I suspect they'll be plenty of volunteers .

I reckon Skinner deserves a bench named after him in the HoC - not just a reserved seat.

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Wed 20 May, 2015 9:29 am

'Big Society' in action...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-yo ... e-32796478" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A charity for people in North Yorkshire who suffered sexual abuse as children is to close in two weeks.

Healing Our Past Experiences (HOPE) reported financial problems in January but now has no funds to operate.

Founder Pauline Carruthers applied for money from the Jimmy Savile Charitable Trust at the start of the year but said she heard nothing back.

HOPE has "drastically reduced" its services and number of staff in the last 18 months.

Good morning.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 9:35 am

Joint editorial: LabourList remains committed to impartiality and fairness
http://labourlist.org/2015/05/joint-edi ... -fairness/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... Although Mark has left LabourList to work for one of the leadership candidate’s campaigns, we want to stress our commitment to covering the race with the impartiality and fairness readers have come to expect. It is important that LabourList remains independent during internal Labour elections and debates, in order to better represent the wide range of opinions of our readers, contributors and, yes, our editorial staff too. We remain Labour: nothing more, and nothing less.

I got an email from LabourList yesterday linking to their survey on who we prefer in the leadership race. That's one I'm definitely not filling in ... the last thing we need are poll results based on a self selecting minority responding very early on in the contest - potentially before all the candidates are declared.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Wed 20 May, 2015 9:47 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Joint editorial: LabourList remains committed to impartiality and fairness
http://labourlist.org/2015/05/joint-edi ... -fairness/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... Although Mark has left LabourList to work for one of the leadership candidate’s campaigns, we want to stress our commitment to covering the race with the impartiality and fairness readers have come to expect. It is important that LabourList remains independent during internal Labour elections and debates, in order to better represent the wide range of opinions of our readers, contributors and, yes, our editorial staff too. We remain Labour: nothing more, and nothing less.
I got an email from LabourList yesterday linking to their survey on who we prefer in the leadership race. That's one I'm definitely not filling in ... the last thing we need are poll results based on a self selecting minority responding very early on in the contest - potentially before all the candidates are declared.

Oh I filled it in, put Ed's name in as my preferred choice of leader.

I also put in Christian Wolmar for Mayor as I genuinely think he would do the best job, although I do realise this is a Tessa/Sadiq race now.

Morning all.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 20 May, 2015 9:51 am

Apprenticeships - it's very difficult to find out how many there are and what sort of people take them up.

Morrisons and B&Q between them have had more than 50,000 people over 50 doing them in the past 5 years; Morrisons alone had 43,000 in total across all age groups in 2013. These are low and intermediate level apprenticeships in things like customer care.

If you sign up for one, you do 30 hours a week of on-the-job training (ie.work) and 5 hours of education/learning/training in-house or in college.
For this, you get apprentice rates (£2.73 P/H), which work out at about £10 to £15 more a week than JSA.
As long as you stay on this, you are not unemployed in the figures, and your "wages" are not benefits and not subject to sanctions.
There have been anecdotes of older people doing this to keep busy and get some money coming in when their JSA runs out at 26 weeks.

I cannot find out anywhere how many people are doing longer-term "proper" apprenticeships in things like construction or engineering; there are many providers, from big corporations like Carillion to city councils. Plus, obviously, big retail, home/social care providers, etc.
Apprenticeships are supported by the Skills Funding Agency which gets funding from the European Union.

If we "negotiate" new terms of membership of the EU or if we leave the EU, what happens to that, I wonder?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 20 May, 2015 9:56 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Joint editorial: LabourList remains committed to impartiality and fairness
http://labourlist.org/2015/05/joint-edi ... -fairness/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... Although Mark has left LabourList to work for one of the leadership candidate’s campaigns, we want to stress our commitment to covering the race with the impartiality and fairness readers have come to expect. It is important that LabourList remains independent during internal Labour elections and debates, in order to better represent the wide range of opinions of our readers, contributors and, yes, our editorial staff too. We remain Labour: nothing more, and nothing less.
I got an email from LabourList yesterday linking to their survey on who we prefer in the leadership race. That's one I'm definitely not filling in ... the last thing we need are poll results based on a self selecting minority responding very early on in the contest - potentially before all the candidates are declared.

Yes. The Mirror poll is a bit of fun and gives a good idea of how well recognised the names of potential leaders are, but no one is going to take it seriously or try to use it to influence opinion. As you say, until we see actual proposals, it's hard to make a genuine choice, based on facts rather than assumptions. Polls being published now disparaging or talking up any of the candidates would be rather unhelpful at this stage.

Morning btw.

Oh and I wish I hadn't seen the breakdown which shows that Ed won over every age group except the over 65s. The anti-SNP scare campaign seems even more abhorrent when you realise it was mainly aimed at and was mostly successful with worried old folk.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 20 May, 2015 10:50 am

Monring all (ha, type but let that stand...)

Suzanne Evans, on Victoria Derbyshire's prog, "No-one's briefing against Nigel except Nigel." I wonder is that quite what she'd intended to say?

Edit: formatting

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 20 May, 2015 11:08 am

Hunty says in his speech he will not be entering the race to be Labour leader.
He's backing Liz Kendall's bid.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... 8a5a131727" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like he's said a lot of other things so I'll go read.

Good-morning.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 20 May, 2015 11:17 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Essential Kit for Detoxifying Tory Party.jpg

Denis Skinner @BolsoverBeast · 3m 3 minutes ago
The essential kit required if Cameron plans to detoxify the Tory party.

I suspect they'll be plenty of volunteers .
I reckon Skinner deserves a bench named after him in the HoC - not just a reserved seat.

That account isn't actually done by the MP for Bolsover. Just in case people here don't already know

(its good, though)

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 20 May, 2015 12:18 pm

Hunt has been talking about the contributory principle for social security, apparently.

I don't know what he said, but I hope he knows enough about benefits as they are now to allow for the fact that there are currently very few conts-based benefits left. In fact, if you are claiming NI Conts-based benefits, you are punished for it.

In England, people on conts-based benefits do not have free prescriptions, eye care, or dental care, as a matter of policy.
Conts-based JSA is limited to 26 weeks and ESA WRAG to 52 weeks.
The main group of 18-64 year-olds on NI conts-based benefits is IB/ESA claimants in the Support Group - less than half the total of 1.5 million.

All other benefits are means-tested - apart from a few bits and bobs like War Pensions and of course the state pension.
Tax credits, housing benefits, council tax benefits, income support, long-term JSA/ESA WRAG claims, Carers Allowance, etc. are all means tested and the same applies to Universal Credit - plus most are subject to conditions beyond the purely financial.

There are more than 4 million people in the UK who are "economically inactive" - some of those will be people who have no work and claim no benefits due to time-limiting and means-testing. Under Universal Credit, of course, many of those people will not be able to claim at all if there is someone in the household earning above minimum wage.

In 1982, unemployment in the UK reached 3 million for the first time since the 1930s. In the same year, the Earnings Related Supplement for unemployment benefit was abolished - it would have been ruinously expensive to pay it to millions.
The Tories back then knew that ERS and conts-based benefits would have to go; they eroded the contributory principle, and with Universal Credit it will disappear for good. I don't think it will ever come back, either.

Now, we have - allegedly - less than a million people who are unemployed and claiming JSA. But we also have mass structural UNDER-employment which has replaced mass structural unemployment - plus a lot of people who have sort of disappeared.
That's why the social security bill keeps on rising - when in-work benefits are subject to the same means-testing as out-of-work benefits, if people are paid well and working full time, the benefit bill should fall. It hasn't - because this new employment does not pay.

If ERS was brought back, which is what Frank Field wants, it would cost billions. Although under the old system the link to earnings was not for ever, just think how much it would cost to pay a redundant police sergeant ERS for 12 months.
The ERS varied, but basically it involved people getting their unemployment or sickness benefits for a limited time at a basic rate plus up to 40% of their previous salary; the idea was that it would help them to adjust.
The Tories decided that not only was it too expensive, it was an inducement for people not to look for work.

Apart from paying people who have contributed a bit more (as with pensioners), I don't know what this "contributory principle" would look like.
Is the idea that people who have never worked get less? If so, I don't get why it is fair that someone who has had a job gets a better deal than someone who hasn't (due to sickness, disability, or the crime of youth) gets less when they may need the help more.

We pay collective insurance, whether it's the National Insurance system or a private insurance scheme - if you pay NI contributions because you have a job, or if you pay for private employment/health cover, or home/car insurance, it's the same thing, in effect.
There will always be people who claim more than others - and always people who pay more than others. You might be lucky and always work and never have an incident at home or driving - but if you do, you will not get more than anyone else if you do.

In a situation where there are millions who cannot contribute (the "economically inactive) and millions more can only contribute a very small amount (the under-employed) it is not the time to re-introduce a contributory system - plus the expense is huge.
If something like ERS was brought back in, and future governments are committed to the total benefit cap, it's the ones at the bottom with no NI record who will suffer.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 20 May, 2015 12:24 pm

ephemerid wrote:Apprenticeships - it's very difficult to find out how many there are and what sort of people take them up.

Morrisons and B&Q between them have had more than 50,000 people over 50 doing them in the past 5 years; Morrisons alone had 43,000 in total across all age groups in 2013. These are low and intermediate level apprenticeships in things like customer care.

If you sign up for one, you do 30 hours a week of on-the-job training (ie.work) and 5 hours of education/learning/training in-house or in college.
For this, you get apprentice rates (£2.73 P/H), which work out at about £10 to £15 more a week than JSA.
As long as you stay on this, you are not unemployed in the figures, and your "wages" are not benefits and not subject to sanctions.
There have been anecdotes of older people doing this to keep busy and get some money coming in when their JSA runs out at 26 weeks.

I cannot find out anywhere how many people are doing longer-term "proper" apprenticeships in things like construction or engineering; there are many providers, from big corporations like Carillion to city councils. Plus, obviously, big retail, home/social care providers, etc.
Apprenticeships are supported by the Skills Funding Agency which gets funding from the European Union.

If we "negotiate" new terms of membership of the EU or if we leave the EU, what happens to that, I wonder?

There are about a hundred places to start as an apprentice farrier, every year. The full course takes just over four years and it's a Level 3 Diploma on block release, to one of three colleges in the UK, from an Approved Training Farrier (ATF.) That prepares the apprentices to take the diploma of the Worshipful Company of Farriers, at which point they finally become qualified farriers. To get onto the Level 3 course, people already need to hold a Level 2 in forgework/blacksmithing. Now, that means that each person could (according to the way the government count the figures) count as two, or possibly three, 'apprenticeship starts.'

There were more horses around, when I was a kid, so a lot more work for Farriers, but there were only around 30 new places to start each year, then, and the block release course was only available at one college. Nowadays, with the expansion to 100 new places each year through more colleges acting as training providers, competition for vacancies to sign on as an apprentice with an ATF in even tougher. And there's less work for farriers, overall, so the colleges now say that the farriery apprenticeship's Level 3 + WCF diploma leads to working as a farrier, going on to work in other areas of the horse world, or moving on to further equine studies. Of course, the ATFs themselves don't benefit from all this 'money for apprenticeships' flowing (I use the word advisedly) from the Government's coffers. They pay the apprentice her/his wage and contribute towards the block-release to the colleges. They're employers who train, not 'training providers.' The training colleges, though, are the registered training providers.

Edit I'd add that, again when I was a kid, there were a lot more informally-trained farriers around - handing the skills on from father to son (or daughter) or through the wider family and community. The 'official' training places were few, though; and, in more recent years, farriery became a protected trade so you can't call yourself a farrier if you don't go the approved route and it's illegal for anyone else to shoe horses. Quite a few good people converted, others didn't. There are a few dodgy ones still around and probably good ones too but working illegally – you still hear of the odd prosecution.

Second edit to correct formatting in the first edit. Ach, bumboils™ (©Por Favor)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 20 May, 2015 1:04 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning.
Woken up to Farage on Radio 4. We just haven't seen or heard enough of him recently ...
MichaelWhite ‏@MichaelWhite 3m3 minutes ago
Nigel Farage on R4's Today. Fluent as ever, but he seems to be in denial. "Ukip ran the most positive election campaign" he says. United too
norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 2m2 minutes ago
The public agreed with me over my criticism of immigrants coming to UK with HIV - @nigelfarage @BBCr4today
Julia Goldsworthy ‏@jgoldsworthy 7m7 minutes ago
Why does Farage think EU ref will be next May? Electoral Commission says shouldn't be on same day as other elections @BBCr4today
Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft 11h11 hours ago
Neither write off @UKIP nor @Nigel_Farage . Like them or not they will regroup and survive. They came 2nd in 120 seats.
Unfortunately I think Ashcroft is very right.

I never underestimate dangerous, right-wing, fanatical political parties with an alarming amount of air-time.
However, I'd find better information behind the refrigerator than from Ashcroft's twitter feed noise.

Ashcroft: 'They came 2nd in 120 seats.'

Only 12 out of 650 seats did UKIP come within a couple of thousand votes of the winner.
UKIP received votes in the thousands in most of the 650 constituencies & that's alarming.
UKIP votes increased; not enough to displace thousands of voters choosing another party.
Tories telling scary stories.
Ashcroft's all frantic because within five years all those loyal Tory voters will have passed away & then what are Tories going to do? My advice to Ashcroft is for the Tory party to merge with UKIP now & save billions on PR.

http://election.pressassociation.com/Re ... php#header" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 20 May, 2015 1:07 pm

That's the spirit, cJA

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 20 May, 2015 2:31 pm

Even if you don't Tweet, most of us will have heard Hopkins nasty outbursts about boat people, and that Mensch has been bullying the seventeen year old who got Milifandom off the ground...

I read recently Hopkins said she had an illness which made her have outbursts...And now Mensch is excusing herself.

Andrew Spooner ‏@andrewspoooner 6m6 minutes ago

Are we watching someone having some kind of breakdown? "Louise Mensch: My mind is messed up after taking hard drugs"

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 20 May, 2015 2:39 pm

Rainsbrook G4S youth prison slammed by Ofsted report as children suffer 'racist', 'degrading' abuse from guards high on drugs

Ofsted said the full details of a number of incidents involving children were so serious that they were being withheld to protect their confidentiality. Its report gave Rainsbrook the lowest rating of “inadequate”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 63121.html

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 20 May, 2015 2:45 pm

Looks like the lizforleader.co.uk domain wasn't secured by her election team, with amusing results

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 20 May, 2015 2:50 pm

Trsitram Hunt really is very good. It's a shame he's not standing as leader, but I hope whoever does become leader will take the time to listen to him because he really does have some extremely astute insight into why Labour principles, which used to be so strong among so many people, have been fading away:

He said Labour was in trouble partly as a result of a “profound cultural collapse” that has affected the UK. Citing Stoke-on-Trent, where he is an MP, he said:

I can see that these foundational institutions - which for so long have provided British social democracy with its cultural anchors - are barely a presence in the vast majority of my constituents lives anymore.

The chapels are empty.

The working mens’ clubs have closed.

Trade union membership is down - close to non-existent in the private sector.

And despite some encouraging recent signs, deindustrialisation, driven by global competition, has laid waste to most of our manufacturing economy.

This withering of our Labour roots is striking in two important and connected ways.

Both of which were captured by the election result.

First, the erosion of the sentimental and electoral loyalty to our party in white working class communities.

And second the weakening of class-based forms of identity when compared to local or national pride.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... itics-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The first two I've highlighted in bold because where I live both of these things are still going strong. Churches, especially the Methodists, still play a prominent role in many community events and many social clubs are still running even though the factories that spawned them are long gone. And these areas, especially where the social clubs are still active, still vote Labour as much as they ever did. I'm starting to feel like I live in some kind of time warp compared to the rest of the country. I must admit, I did already suspect that the popularity of pigeon fancying locally made my area a little unique, given that I live several miles to the south of the M4!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 3:25 pm

Kevin Schofield ‏@schofieldkevin 1h1 hour ago
Douglas Carswell in Portcullis House with Neil and Christine Hamilton. No doubt discussing how Ukip is 100% united.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 20 May, 2015 3:32 pm

Hunt is good at analysis, rather less so at possible solutions.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 3:38 pm

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 8h8 hours ago
"Government elected in May 2015 holds lowest share of vote in both Wales (27.2%) and Scotland (14.9%) since 1945" http://researchbriefings.files.parliame ... P-7186.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 3:48 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Hunt is good at analysis, rather less so at possible solutions.

Good point. I think his analysis re the loss of the 'working class' vote in some areas was useful too. But - whilst I liked the bits of his speech that I heard re the cultural and voting pattern shifts ... I couldn't help thinking that he will come across as quite academic and cerebral to some people - rather like Ed Miliband did. Now I didn't find that off putting about Ed ... I liked those characteristics ... but others won't - and they won't find it engaging unfortunately. However - I do hope Tristram Hunt gets used rather better than he has been at education by a new leader. They could really put his skills and qualities to use in formulating overall strategy and vision.

On another tack - it isn't going to help Liz Kendall to be constantly referred to as Blairite. Every news bulletin and item on her I've heard today has called her that.

All I can say is that if they think people will find that a reassuring move - they are not the same people I've been talking to on doorsteps around here. Blair was toxic - utterly toxic. Blair was probably the number one reason people came out with for not wanting to support Labour - they are still angry. How can the Westminster people not have heard and taken that on board?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 3:58 pm

Scotland may have to leave the EU even if it votes to stay in, David Cameron confirms
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 62563.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Scotland may have to leave the European Union even if it votes to stay in the bloc, David Cameron has confirmed.

The Prime Minister indicated to the Daily Express newspaper that the constituent countries of the United Kingdom would not have to agree before an EU exit went ahead.

“We put forward in our manifesto the clearest possible pledge of an in-out referendum by the end of 2017. That has now been backed in a UK General Election and I believe I have a mandate for that,” he told the newspaper.

“They didn’t give Orkney and Shetland an opt-out, or the Borders an opt out [during the Scottish independence referendum] so this is a UK pledge, it will be delivered for the UK.”

Mr Cameron’s assertion is a rejection of calls from Scotland’s first minister Nicola Sturgeon, says she wants a “lock” to be put on Britain’s EU exit...

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 20 May, 2015 4:13 pm

Just reading the Guardian piece about Theresa May's speech to the Police Federation, today, which has probably been mentioned. I'll go back and check. But I don't like this bit:

This will include extending the use of police-led prosecutions to cut the time the police spend waiting for the Crown Prosecution Service, overhauling the police complaints and disciplinary systems and making changes to the oversight of pre-charge bail.

I don't like the rest of it, either...
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... lls-police

Good speech from Neil Findlay MSP (Labour) in the Scottish Parliament during a debate on The Future of Scotland's Economy, which is on BBC Parliament at the moment. You'll remember he was one of the contenders for the leadership of Scottish Labour, last year. Whether or not he'll stand again, I don't know but I rather hope he does. I'll try to remember to to link to it once they publish the transcript, later.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 4:15 pm

Tom Watson interview: "There'll be no room for messing around"
The front-runner for Labour's deputy leadership discusses immigration, defence spending and making peace with press.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... ing-around" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With Andy Burnham the early frontrunner for the post, and Watson the favourite to win the deputy role, Labour could soon have an all-male team at the top. What does he say to those, such as the acting leader Harriet Harman, who argue that gender balance is essential? “Well, I think they’ve got plenty of options from what I see,” he replies. “If you want an all-women team you can go for it. I can’t change my gender but people have got a choice.” Referring to past occupants of the post, he tells me that he aims to combine “the calmness of Margaret Beckett” with “the energy of John Prescott”.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 20 May, 2015 4:18 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Even if you don't Tweet, most of us will have heard Hopkins nasty outbursts about boat people, and that Mensch has been bullying the seventeen year old who got Milifandom off the ground...

I read recently Hopkins said she had an illness which made her have outbursts...And now Mensch is excusing herself.

Andrew Spooner ‏@andrewspoooner 6m6 minutes ago

Are we watching someone having some kind of breakdown? "Louise Mensch: My mind is messed up after taking hard drugs"

This is all so ridiculous, it's beyond reason.

Hopkins has epilepsy, which she claimed in 2014 was of a severity which led to 26 hospital admissions in the previous 9 months.
The reason for the hospital admissions was what she calls relocation of her arms, because she dislocated them during nocturnal fits.
Personally, I find it difficult to believe than anyone dislocates their "arms" 3 times a month at all, let alone whilst fitting - and as an A&E sister, I've seen plenty of epileptic seizures, many unrelated shoulder dislocations, and very very few elbow dislocations at all.
I've known people injure themselves during seizures, but they are most commonly injured due to a fall or a head injury - I cannot recall ever seeing a patient with a joint dislocation in those circumstances. Maybe I missed them; I daresay it happens....
Hopkins may well have nocturnal epilepsy (and as far as I am aware, there is no record of her ever having fits when awake or in public) which is unusual. It does exist, but those who have it usually have small fits just as they drift off to sleep.

She claimed that part of her brain is "missing". I am, for reasons she might not understand, inclined to agree.

As for Mensch, she should be thoroughly ashamed of herself.
She has trotted out this nonsense about how her brains were fried by youthful drug-taking before - usually when she has done or said something so irredeemably stupid that she has to find an excuse for herself. God forfend she ever actually apologises.
She publicly released an email she had been sent alleging that she may have taken drugs with Nigel Kennedy at Ronnie Scotts, then admitted to the Sunday Times that she had indeed taken Class A substances while working as a press officer for EMI.
It has not been my professional observation or experience that people in the meeja and showbiz who indulge in a snort or several socially as a matter of routine end up with their brains fried as a matter of routine. It takes a bit more than that.
If she was so mentally screwed that she does and says dreadful things, how did she manage to recover sufficiently to become a best-selling purveyor of hideous chick-lit and progress to become a Member of Parliament?

Having followed her Tweets to Abby Tomlinson, reading a sustained catalogue of unpleasantness and bullying, and knowing what the gutter press did to Abby and her family, I am disgusted with Mensch's protestations - even if her new excuses were true, they are not a reason for behaving like a complete bitch; she was wrong and she should apologise.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 20 May, 2015 4:32 pm

LadyCentauria wrote: Good speech from Neil Findlay MSP (Labour) in the Scottish Parliament during a debate on The Future of Scotland's Economy, which is on BBC Parliament at the moment. You'll remember he was one of the contenders for the leadership of Scottish Labour, last year. Whether or not he'll stand again, I don't know but I rather hope he does. I'll try to remember to to link to it once they publish the transcript, later.

He's not standing.

In a statement today he said: “The last week has been a traumatic time for everyone in the Scottish Labour Party. We now need to get on with the urgent task of rebuilding our organisation, the morale of party members and the policies we need to restore the faith of the voters in the run up to the 2016 Scottish Parliament elections.
“I hope to play my full part in that process but I also want to make it crystal clear that I will not be a candidate in the election for the position of Scottish Labour leader.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/neil-findl ... -1-3775382

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 4:34 pm

norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 34s35 seconds ago
Govt scraps @GrahamAllenMP political and constitutional reform select committee

What's that about - should we be alarmed, or very alarmed?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 4:36 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote: Good speech from Neil Findlay MSP (Labour) in the Scottish Parliament during a debate on The Future of Scotland's Economy, which is on BBC Parliament at the moment. You'll remember he was one of the contenders for the leadership of Scottish Labour, last year. Whether or not he'll stand again, I don't know but I rather hope he does. I'll try to remember to to link to it once they publish the transcript, later.
He's not standing.
In a statement today he said: “The last week has been a traumatic time for everyone in the Scottish Labour Party. We now need to get on with the urgent task of rebuilding our organisation, the morale of party members and the policies we need to restore the faith of the voters in the run up to the 2016 Scottish Parliament elections.
“I hope to play my full part in that process but I also want to make it crystal clear that I will not be a candidate in the election for the position of Scottish Labour leader.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/neil-findl ... -1-3775382

I'm impressed by how much Parliament TV Lady C can bear to watch through though. I generally find these debates and question sessions very difficult to stomach for more than 10 mins or so.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 20 May, 2015 4:40 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Scotland may have to leave the EU even if it votes to stay in, David Cameron confirms
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 62563.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Scotland may have to leave the European Union even if it votes to stay in the bloc, David Cameron has confirmed.

The Prime Minister indicated to the Daily Express newspaper that the constituent countries of the United Kingdom would not have to agree before an EU exit went ahead.

“We put forward in our manifesto the clearest possible pledge of an in-out referendum by the end of 2017. That has now been backed in a UK General Election and I believe I have a mandate for that,” he told the newspaper.

“They didn’t give Orkney and Shetland an opt-out, or the Borders an opt out [during the Scottish independence referendum] so this is a UK pledge, it will be delivered for the UK.”

Mr Cameron’s assertion is a rejection of calls from Scotland’s first minister Nicola Sturgeon, says she wants a “lock” to be put on Britain’s EU exit...

He's right. This was raked over time and time again during the referendum. Scotland can't leave (or stay in) the EU, simply because it isn't a member. (Neither can England, Wales or Northern Ireland, for the same reason). All the EU treaties are signed on behalf of the UK, so it's the UK that can stay or leave.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 4:47 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Scotland may have to leave the EU even if it votes to stay in, David Cameron confirms
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 62563.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Scotland may have to leave the European Union even if it votes to stay in the bloc, David Cameron has confirmed.

The Prime Minister indicated to the Daily Express newspaper that the constituent countries of the United Kingdom would not have to agree before an EU exit went ahead.

“We put forward in our manifesto the clearest possible pledge of an in-out referendum by the end of 2017. That has now been backed in a UK General Election and I believe I have a mandate for that,” he told the newspaper.

“They didn’t give Orkney and Shetland an opt-out, or the Borders an opt out [during the Scottish independence referendum] so this is a UK pledge, it will be delivered for the UK.”

Mr Cameron’s assertion is a rejection of calls from Scotland’s first minister Nicola Sturgeon, says she wants a “lock” to be put on Britain’s EU exit...
He's right. This was raked over time and time again during the referendum. Scotland can't leave (or stay in) the EU, simply because it isn't a member. (Neither can England, Wales or Northern Ireland, for the same reason). All the EU treaties are signed on behalf of the UK, so it's the UK that can stay or leave.

But isn't Sturgeon / SNP / Scottish Govt's position that they don't want to UK to be allowed to leave the EU unless a majority in Scotland and the other home nations have voted for that ... that's not quite the same is it? Anyway - Cameron isn't giving the SNP what they want. Will be interesting to see how this develops.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 20 May, 2015 4:53 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
He's right. This was raked over time and time again during the referendum. Scotland can't leave (or stay in) the EU, simply because it isn't a member. (Neither can England, Wales or Northern Ireland, for the same reason). All the EU treaties are signed on behalf of the UK, so it's the UK that can stay or leave.
But isn't Sturgeon / SNP / Scottish Govt's position that they don't want to UK to be allowed to leave the EU unless a majority in Scotland and the other home nations have voted for that ... that's not quite the same is it? Anyway - Cameron isn't giving the SNP what they want. Will be interesting to see how this develops.

Yes - I think that's what she wants (she has a limited understanding of democracy and/or doesn't understand that Scotland is part of the UK). I think the technical term is 'tail wagging the dog'.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 5:12 pm

DWP Forced To Apologise After Terminally Ill Benefit Claimant Tried To Take His Own Life
http://www.welfareweekly.com/dwp-forced ... -own-life/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Awful story - as so many are. Glad it was resolved without this person actually losing their life.

However, the letter of apology from the DWP contains a phrase - euphemism - I find chilling. It says:
'...you should never have been selected to begin this journey to transfer over from Incapacity Benefit to Employment Support Allowance... '
and later
'... you should never have been selected to begin this journey and the journey was ended.'

Journey? FFS. Call it a process or a transfer or a shift. But 'journey'? Who do they think they fool with this nicey-nicey nasty language?

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 20 May, 2015 5:20 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote: Good speech from Neil Findlay MSP (Labour) in the Scottish Parliament during a debate on The Future of Scotland's Economy, which is on BBC Parliament at the moment. You'll remember he was one of the contenders for the leadership of Scottish Labour, last year. Whether or not he'll stand again, I don't know but I rather hope he does. I'll try to remember to to link to it once they publish the transcript, later.
He's not standing.
In a statement today he said: “The last week has been a traumatic time for everyone in the Scottish Labour Party. We now need to get on with the urgent task of rebuilding our organisation, the morale of party members and the policies we need to restore the faith of the voters in the run up to the 2016 Scottish Parliament elections.
“I hope to play my full part in that process but I also want to make it crystal clear that I will not be a candidate in the election for the position of Scottish Labour leader.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/neil-findl ... -1-3775382

I hadn't seen that. Pity he wo'n't run but I hope there's a strong field and that there'll be a good place for him in the new leader's team.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 5:24 pm

I've just received the notes of the Welsh Executive Committee (Labour) made by our representative at the meeting. Some very interesting discussion and points made. If any of the Welsh Labour FTNers would like to see them - let me know via a PM and I'll see if I can find a way to forward them.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 5:31 pm

Yes campaigner who daubed saltire at Wallace Monument to pay £8000
http://news.stv.tv/stirling-central/132 ... o-pay-800/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 20 May, 2015 5:32 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote: Good speech from Neil Findlay MSP (Labour) in the Scottish Parliament during a debate on The Future of Scotland's Economy, which is on BBC Parliament at the moment. You'll remember he was one of the contenders for the leadership of Scottish Labour, last year. Whether or not he'll stand again, I don't know but I rather hope he does. I'll try to remember to to link to it once they publish the transcript, later.
He's not standing.
In a statement today he said: “The last week has been a traumatic time for everyone in the Scottish Labour Party. We now need to get on with the urgent task of rebuilding our organisation, the morale of party members and the policies we need to restore the faith of the voters in the run up to the 2016 Scottish Parliament elections.
“I hope to play my full part in that process but I also want to make it crystal clear that I will not be a candidate in the election for the position of Scottish Labour leader.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/neil-findl ... -1-3775382
I'm impressed by how much Parliament TV Lady C can bear to watch through though. I generally find these debates and question sessions very difficult to stomach for more than 10 mins or so.

It really depends on what the debate is and I tend to listen rather than watch, treating it more like radio whilst reading, surfing, and doing other stuff about the house. Probably why I'm often at a loss as to who was speaking as so often, when I glance over at the screen, the lower-third has swapped from the person's name/title to what the debate is called. I flit between various radio and tv stations/programmes, too, unless I'm out in the garden. Just generally like the sound of voices around me whereas I find music too distracting and engrossing to allow me to put any of my concentration onto anything else, unless it's playing/singing along or twiddling the knobs on the desk

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 5:33 pm

Bit of good news.

Adam Boulton retweeted
AmnestyInternational ‏@amnesty 2m2 minutes ago
BREAKING: #Nebraska Legislature just voted to abolish the #deathpenalty! #NErepeal http://owl.li/Nc1by" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 6:03 pm

James Forsyth ‏@JGForsyth 12m12 minutes ago
Germans propose linking the British renegotiation to Eurozone reform http://bit.ly/1Foay0b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 20 May, 2015 6:06 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning.
Woken up to Farage on Radio 4. We just haven't seen or heard enough of him recently ...norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 2m2 minutes ago
The public agreed with me over my criticism of immigrants coming to UK with HIV - @nigelfarage @BBCr4today
Julia Goldsworthy ‏@jgoldsworthy 7m7 minutes ago
Why does Farage think EU ref will be next May? Electoral Commission says shouldn't be on same day as other elections @BBCr4today Unfortunately I think Ashcroft is very right.
I never underestimate dangerous, right-wing, fanatical political parties with an alarming amount of air-time.
However, I'd find better information behind the refrigerator than from Ashcroft's twitter feed noise.

Ashcroft: 'They came 2nd in 120 seats.'

Only 12 out of 650 seats did UKIP come within a couple of thousand votes of the winner.
UKIP received votes in the thousands in most of the 650 constituencies & that's alarming.
UKIP votes increased; not enough to displace thousands of voters choosing another party.
Tories telling scary stories.
Ashcroft's all frantic because within five years all those loyal Tory voters will have passed away & then what are Tories going to do? My advice to Ashcroft is for the Tory party to merge with UKIP now & save billions on PR.

http://election.pressassociation.com/Re ... php#header" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm somewhat confused about Ukip. It's true that they have a great deal of support, and that probably won't be changing any time soon. Yet they had a chance to break away from essentially being The Nigel Farage Show and his backing dancers, and blew it. Whatever you think about Natalie Bennett (I neither like nor rate her), Caroline Lucas stepping down as leader definitely had the effect of moving the Greens away from being a one-man band. I find it hard to see how Ukip will now escape from 'Ukip=Farage and Farage=Ukip', and that has to hurt their long term prospects.

Nevertheless they have much more widespread support than UKIP and BNP put together had five years ago, and I've seen a fair few people admit to having voted that way, some of them in a misguided belief that 'they aren't really right wing, they are more left than the left.' Yes, my jaw dropped too. But in the lull after the election their activists were still active, and still are, trying to actively recruit people. So there's an agenda there, though I do wonder whether the chance to open the party up failed because the bunch they've got at the top are likely to be media fails, and would fail to bring the votes Farage does, or be able to domnate debates the way he can. Of courśe there's always the chance he's been told to rein things in, though it's unlikely.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 20 May, 2015 6:12 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote: He's right. This was raked over time and time again during the referendum. Scotland can't leave (or stay in) the EU, simply because it isn't a member. (Neither can England, Wales or Northern Ireland, for the same reason). All the EU treaties are signed on behalf of the UK, so it's the UK that can stay or leave.
But isn't Sturgeon / SNP / Scottish Govt's position that they don't want to UK to be allowed to leave the EU unless a majority in Scotland and the other home nations have voted for that ... that's not quite the same is it? Anyway - Cameron isn't giving the SNP what they want. Will be interesting to see how this develops.
Yet another factor pushing Scotland towards the exit (of the UK). If Sturgeon is seen to be throwing her weight around, it will probably help push the UK towards the exit of the EU. Exits all round.

So, Grexit, Brexit, um, Scexit? Those for Scottish independence = 'Skeksies' and those for EU exit = ur-RUK? Dunno who the Gelflings are – probably those of us who'd like to see a better solution than exits-all-round! Apologies to the late lamented Jim Henson, et al...

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 20 May, 2015 6:13 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Bit of good news.
Adam Boulton retweeted
AmnestyInternational ‏@amnesty 2m2 minutes ago
BREAKING: #Nebraska Legislature just voted to abolish the #deathpenalty! #NErepeal http://owl.li/Nc1by" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wow. At this rate the US might be a civilised country in my lifetime. Just need the rest of the states to abandon barbarism, end Apartheid, and for the Union to adopt free and fair elections and they'll be there.

I read a great article about pharmacies refusing to sell the drugs used, and hoped that was a sign. I too would dearly love to see this practice end, but I also want more for the U.S., I want an end to their barbaric prison practices too. But this is great. I wonder if other states will follow soon.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 6:26 pm

Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn 6m6 minutes ago
A far from ideal start to Sadiq Khan's London mayoral bid. Story follows soon on @SunNation.

Oh FFS. What now? Can't we have a couple of weeks of relative quiet on the muck digging and spreading front? (If that's what it is ... and I fear it is from the tone of that tweet.)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 6:28 pm

seeingclearly wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
citizenJA wrote: I never underestimate dangerous, right-wing, fanatical political parties with an alarming amount of air-time.
However, I'd find better information behind the refrigerator than from Ashcroft's twitter feed noise.

Ashcroft: 'They came 2nd in 120 seats.'

Only 12 out of 650 seats did UKIP come within a couple of thousand votes of the winner.
UKIP received votes in the thousands in most of the 650 constituencies & that's alarming.
UKIP votes increased; not enough to displace thousands of voters choosing another party.
Tories telling scary stories.
Ashcroft's all frantic because within five years all those loyal Tory voters will have passed away & then what are Tories going to do? My advice to Ashcroft is for the Tory party to merge with UKIP now & save billions on PR.

http://election.pressassociation.com/Re ... php#header" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm somewhat confused about Ukip. It's true that they have a great deal of support, and that probably won't be changing any time soon. Yet they had a chance to break away from essentially being The Nigel Farage Show and his backing dancers, and blew it. Whatever you think about Natalie Bennett (I neither like nor rate her), Caroline Lucas stepping down as leader definitely had the effect of moving the Greens away from being a one-man band. I find it hard to see how Ukip will now escape from 'Ukip=Farage and Farage=Ukip', and that has to hurt their long term prospects.
Nevertheless they have much more widespread support than UKIP and BNP put together had five years ago, and I've seen a fair few people admit to having voted that way, some of them in a misguided belief that 'they aren't really right wing, they are more left than the left.' Yes, my jaw dropped too. But in the lull after the election their activists were still active, and still are, trying to actively recruit people. So there's an agenda there, though I do wonder whether the chance to open the party up failed because the bunch they've got at the top are likely to be media fails, and would fail to bring the votes Farage does, or be able to domnate debates the way he can. Of courśe there's always the chance he's been told to rein things in, though it's unlikely.

I'm very concerned about Ukip. Their vote was well up across Wales. We have Assembly elections here next year. We have PR.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 6:37 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn 6m6 minutes ago
A far from ideal start to Sadiq Khan's London mayoral bid. Story follows soon on @SunNation.
Oh FFS. What now? Can't we have a couple of weeks of relative quiet on the muck digging and spreading front? (If that's what it is ... and I fear it is from the tone of that tweet.)

Yeah. Am sick of it too. Unfortunately this is why the Tories win generation after generation. The cynical use of a note that was clearly a joke for five years indicates that there is nowhere too low for them to stoop. I can't help thinking that the only antidote will be a constant barrage of stories about the Tories stealing the country's assets and tracking exactly where the benefits go.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 20 May, 2015 6:37 pm

Cathy Newman ‏@cathynewman 2m2 minutes ago
Clear to me after interviewing @DouglasCarswell just now that #UKIP intends to position itself as main opponent of Labour rather than Tories