Thursday 21st May 2015

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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

ohsocynical wrote:I posted earlier that as a working class person I didn't know what Labour could do to swing UKIP voters back to them.

I think I do, but without Labour being in power it won't happen.

Masses of Social housing. Better wages, and stopping the importation of cheap labour.
Make their lives a bit easier so that they can afford to take a holiday, or buy a big TV. Or have a drink and a take away a couple of times a week. Even treat themselves to something new, even if it is from Primark.
Once they have that, the majority of them will stop fretting about immigrants...I guarantee it.
But, and it's a huge but, the only way that's going to happen is for Labour to get in but they can't while those at the bottom of the ladder are hard done by and needing someone else to blame.

It's a never ending circle.
You're a wise person, Ohso.
I'd liked Ed Miliband's leadership because he seemed to understand less stressed, adequately housed & fed people all over the country make happier people who don't need scapegoats to cope with rage. We can't get at the few wealthy causing the problems with their greed & poor social skills. The job of a good, democratically elected government is to protect people & country. Responsible leadership is possible. I'm so sorry we're not there yet.
pk1
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by pk1 »

citizenJA wrote:
One of two rail unions planning bank holiday industrial action has called off its strike after receiving a new pay offer from Network Rail. Manuel Cortes, general secretary of the TSSA, said:

"Our negotiating team at Acas has received a revised offer from Network Rail. As a result of this, they have suspended the planned industrial action, pending the outcome of a meeting of our workplace representatives next week."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32832191" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
RMT haven't reached agreement with National Rail yet.
Their strike isn't called off at this time.

My best to you all, comrades. :rock:
It is:
After four days of talks at conciliation service Acas between your union and Network Rail management, the company has tabled a revised offer. Your Executive Committee has considered this offer and decided to suspend all industrial action which had been scheduled to take place on Monday 25th May and Tuesday 26th May 2015.
(my bold)
http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/industrial-a ... nded21515/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PorFavor
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by PorFavor »

1h ago14:04

[Liz] Kendall says the problem the Labour’s proposed energy price freeze was that people did not believe it.[sic] (Politics Blog, Guardian)
Really?
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

pk1 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
One of two rail unions planning bank holiday industrial action has called off its strike after receiving a new pay offer from Network Rail. Manuel Cortes, general secretary of the TSSA, said:

"Our negotiating team at Acas has received a revised offer from Network Rail. As a result of this, they have suspended the planned industrial action, pending the outcome of a meeting of our workplace representatives next week."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32832191" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
RMT haven't reached agreement with National Rail yet.
Their strike isn't called off at this time.

My best to you all, comrades. :rock:
It is:
After four days of talks at conciliation service Acas between your union and Network Rail management, the company has tabled a revised offer. Your Executive Committee has considered this offer and decided to suspend all industrial action which had been scheduled to take place on Monday 25th May and Tuesday 26th May 2015.
(my bold)
http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/industrial-a ... nded21515/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thank you!
pk1
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by pk1 »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
JustMom wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: Reading between the lines on his Twitter output I suspect he wouldn't need much convincing, the articles he has written over the past week do read like some sort of personal manifesto.
Would he be any good do you think ?
He has been around since God was a boy but never made the jump to the top table; whether that is through lack of ability, bad luck or a mixture of the two, difficult to call, certainly a few missteps along the way. But his entry would shake things up a little, that is for sure.
He's not got a hope in hell.

If people are saying "Liz, who?" about Kendall, they sure as hell won't have a clue who Trickett is.
PorFavor
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by PorFavor »

1h ago14:09

Q: Do you think the new leader should have to be confirmed again after three years or so?

Kendall says that is an interesting idea. MPs have to be reconfirmed by the Labour party. Leaders should have to show they are up to the job.(Politics Blog, Guardian)


and then, at 14.14

Q: Would you back changes to the party rules to allow a leader to undergo re-election after three years or so?

Kendall says the Labour party should have confidence in its new leader. (Politics Blog, Guardian)
So what exactly is her answer to the question. Yes? Or no?
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

pk1 wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
JustMom wrote: Would he be any good do you think ?
He has been around since God was a boy but never made the jump to the top table; whether that is through lack of ability, bad luck or a mixture of the two, difficult to call, certainly a few missteps along the way. But his entry would shake things up a little, that is for sure.
He's not got a hope in hell.

If people are saying "Liz, who?" about Kendall, they sure as hell won't have a clue who Trickett is.
To be fair they said "David who?" about Cameron, but I tend to agree with you. As for Liz Kendall, not for me thank you.
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
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frightful_oik
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by frightful_oik »

Trickett will be 69 going on 70 at the next election. Shouldn't matter but it would.
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you-
Ye are many - they are few."
ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
pk1 wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: He has been around since God was a boy but never made the jump to the top table; whether that is through lack of ability, bad luck or a mixture of the two, difficult to call, certainly a few missteps along the way. But his entry would shake things up a little, that is for sure.
He's not got a hope in hell.

If people are saying "Liz, who?" about Kendall, they sure as hell won't have a clue who Trickett is.
To be fair they said "David who?" about Cameron, but I tend to agree with you. As for Liz Kendall, not for me thank you.
Kendall is in favour of Free schools too.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
StephenDolan
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by StephenDolan »

ohsocynical wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
pk1 wrote: He's not got a hope in hell.

If people are saying "Liz, who?" about Kendall, they sure as hell won't have a clue who Trickett is.
To be fair they said "David who?" about Cameron, but I tend to agree with you. As for Liz Kendall, not for me thank you.
Kendall is in favour of Free schools too.
Jesus, this is looking like a least worst choice.
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ephemerid
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by ephemerid »

Apparently Liz "Who?" approves of Free Schools.
If that's true, she's no use at all. Plus she is just a bit too.....erm......whatever.
No, don't like her.

Can't stand Cooper. Too clever-clever.
Co-conspirator in the introduction of the WCA and has never apologised.
Don't like the way she rubbished Ed and what she says is his attitude to business.

Burnham's OK but will never get rid of the Mid-Staffs stuff.
Not his fault, but nobody will believe him now.
Also disparaging about Ed.

In my view, none of them have much appeal.
They seem to be saying that Ed's ideas were wrong, and all they have to do is move back to the centre (which is itself moving more to the right) and they'll be on to a winner.
They could be correct from an electoral point of view, but that's not a (New, Blue) Labour I can vote for.

I am not impressed. As Ed said, we can do better than this.

There are some very talented and left-leaning people in Labour. Not one of them is in this leadership race.
I am sick of it already.
"Poverty is the worst form of violence" - Mahatma Gandhi
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ephemerid
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by ephemerid »

And just to make things even more ridiculous, Cameron and May have been out and about in Ealing.

They went on an immigration enforcement raid.

I despair.
"Poverty is the worst form of violence" - Mahatma Gandhi
StephenDolan
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by StephenDolan »

"Wealth creation" and "Aspiration"

Fuck off. Just. Fuck. Off.

Because nothing symbolises the Labour Party like I want to be loaded, irrespective of the ways and means hey LK? Show me the polling data related to specific Labour manifesto pledges that show this is the way to go. Just one.
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

frightful_oik wrote:Trickett will be 69 going on 70 at the next election. Shouldn't matter but it would.
If he's the energy & health to do it, wonderful. There are endeavours I don't have the energy or physical resilience to do now because I'm older. Not many endeavours but some.
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

I'm sorry about the Labour leadership difficulty.
I don't know what to do.
PorFavor
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by PorFavor »

It's a shame that Sadiq Khan's gone of in what I'm sure will be a fruitless pursuit of the London Mayoral Labour nomination.

It's a much bigger shame that Ed Miliband is no longer the leader.
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by ScarletGas »

I, like many others here have spent hours trying to convince people that all politicians are not the same.

After what I have seen recently from the labour party candidates for leader I was started to question myself.

Now listening to Liz Kendall I know for sure they were right and I was wrong!

The object of the exercise currently should be for Labour to differentiate itself from the perceived wisdom of the right wing, whether that is the tory party or the main stream media, not imitate because it courts short term popularity.

Seemingly accepting, either by active criticism or silence, the narrative that every thing that Labour has done or proposed in the last 10 years is cowardly,untrue and not the way to defeat this government.

Can we not have someone who takes the fight to the Tories and by dint of personality,emotion and good old fashioned argument show them up for what they are rather than the wishy washy sort of opposition that seems to be on the cards.

Yet another case of politicians imitating the Nick Clegg/Groucho Marx approach (These are my principals but if you don't like them I have others)

She is not outlining a path that could lead me to continue my support.
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

PorFavor wrote:It's a shame that Sadiq Khan's gone of in what I'm sure will be a fruitless pursuit of the London Mayoral Labour nomination.

It's a much bigger shame that Ed Miliband is no longer the leader.
It will either be him or Tessa who gets the nomination and, despite the fact he has Ken & Oona cheerleading for him, I suspect it will be Tessa who gets the nod.
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
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frightful_oik
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by frightful_oik »

RobertSnozers wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:"Wealth creation" and "Aspiration"

Fuck off. Just. Fuck. Off.

Because nothing symbolises the Labour Party like I want to be loaded, irrespective of the ways and means hey LK? Show me the polling data related to specific Labour manifesto pledges that show this is the way to go. Just one.
I suspect a lot of it is more about presentation than the actual substance of the policies, and more about placating the media than winning over voters. As far as the polls are concerned, I remember YouGov showing that most people felt that Labour was anti-business, and that this was bad for the economy, so it all fed into the narrative of economic incapability. It seems that the business community thought this as well. The fact was that in many respects, what with policies for SMEs and support for remaining in the EU, there was a lot that wasn't anti-business about Labour under Ed but that didn't cut through the 'Red Ed' perception.

I'm torn between not wanting to lose the soul of the party and not wanting to gift the Tories yet another term. The fact is that the last incarnation of Labour, for all we generally supported it on FTN, it didn't win enough people over, and most of that was about perception - 'weak, wasteful, tax-and-spend Labour' in England and Wales, and 'Red Tories' in Scotland. They couldn't both be right but enough people believed one or the other.
The media will say Labour is anti-business, (or indeed anything else the Tories want them to say), so Labour may as well get hung for a sheep as a lamb by offering a different vision. I can't support someone who says, 'We're just like the Tories but without the vicious socio-paths'.
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you-
Ye are many - they are few."
ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

Saying aspiration to many Labour and ex Labour voters would make them snort with laughter.

It's a lovely word, and no doubt many have and had 'aspirations' and reach their goal, but a great many know the goalposts are stacked against them especially if they're not clever enough to be university material.

It was okay for those that did essential, but low paid unskilled jobs. They could just about get by and hold their heads up because they were providing for their family, but it's becoming increasingly harder. And it's going to get worse. Much worse.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

Yvette Cooper MP, Labour’s Shadow Home Secretary, commenting on the net migration figures published today said:

“Promises consistently broken by the Prime Minister and the Conservative Party simply erode public trust, and make it easier for UKIP and others to exploit people’s concerns. Immigration is important for Britain, that’s why it needs to be controlled and managed so the system is fair. Rather than empty promises, David Cameron should be taking sensible, practical steps to make sure the system is controlled, managed and fair.”

MAY 21, 2015 (11:16 AM)

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1195135 ... shed-today" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cooper's entire Labour Press post link is good
ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

Claudia Chwalisz ‏@ClaudiaChwalisz 44 minutes ago

How did young people vote in 2015? Turnout amongst 18-24yo up from 52 to 58% from 2010. 41% amongst them voted Labour

http://theconversation.com/how-did-youn ... ture-41650
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by Tonibel »

StephenDolan wrote:"Wealth creation" and "Aspiration"

Fuck off. Just. Fuck. Off.

Because nothing symbolises the Labour Party like I want to be loaded, irrespective of the ways and means hey LK? Show me the polling data related to specific Labour manifesto pledges that show this is the way to go. Just one.
We need less aspiration and more hope.
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TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by TheGrimSqueaker »

SamCam's stepfather has compared Nicola Sturgeon to Robert Mugabe. Apparently Mugabe is speaking to lawyers about a potential libel action.
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
utopiandreams
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

There's a lull in proceedings at the moment but we must keep our eyes on Parliamentary business: http://services.parliament.uk/calendar/ (possibly worth bookmarking) and Future business (link in page). No doubt http://www.38degrees.org.uk/ shall be keeping up with their campaigns too.

Let's not get too disheartened.

Edit: what I'm getting at is the small majority without Clegg et al.

Edit the edit!
Last edited by utopiandreams on Thu 21 May, 2015 6:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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utopiandreams
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

@pk1

Sorry, but who the hell is Tricket? ... Google, here I come.

Edit: it would help if I spelt his name correctly!
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
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TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

Tonibel wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:"Wealth creation" and "Aspiration"

Fuck off. Just. Fuck. Off.

Because nothing symbolises the Labour Party like I want to be loaded, irrespective of the ways and means hey LK? Show me the polling data related to specific Labour manifesto pledges that show this is the way to go. Just one.
We need less aspiration and more hope.
Liz Kendall can get lost as far as I am concerned. Useless candidate, if I want a Tory I can vote for Cameron.
Release the Guardvarks.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by tinyclanger2 »

mikems wrote:I think that all this talk from the leadership candidates misses the blooming point by a mile. We will never be able to please the reactionary media, they will never support us, and we shouldn't waste our time trying to placate them and appear reasonable to them.

We need our own media. We used to have it, but it was all allowed to slip out of our hands and into the grasp of Murdoch and other capitalists.

We also need to rebuild the labour movement. Hunty talked about this yesterday, and, while we must accept that some things have gone forever simply because times change, the labour movement should be trying to find new ways of establishing itself at the centre of our communities again.

And we need a strategy, some idea of the sort of society we want to create and some ideas on how we get there. And all of that should come from a renewed labour movement.

Moving a bit to the left or right now will make no long term difference to the movement. Tactics won't win wars. Strategy wins wars and we simply haven't got a worthwhile strategy and have nothing to aim for at the moment.
If we do please them then we are doing something wrong since they do not and never will have our best interests at heart. Their's is an anti-knowledge approach and it's entirely cynical. We absolutely need an alternative press.
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JustMom
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by JustMom »

I don't feel Ed's policies were rejected,i think the stupid press stories and misinformation from the tories did it.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by tinyclanger2 »

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... p-election" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
which is why I say can these lot please just join the Tories and pull them to the left and leave Labour to people who aren't some kind of Tory.
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utopiandreams
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

My turn to despair. I've followed some of the links on John Trickett's page to pre-election articles he'd written and strayed below the line. I try to pride myself with keeping to facts, when I'm being serious that is, and declare my uncertainty where it esists. Nevertheless there are far too many who repeat misconceptions when shouting others down.

Rather than accuse them of lying I suspect they think they actually know what they're talking of which reminds me of an OU student in the same tutorial group as I. Whenever someone asked the tutor for further explanation of something or other he would interject with his own. He wasn't stupid or anything and was largely correct but there were always some small detail or emphasis which he'd get sadly wrong. The tutor in question wasn't quite as forceful as he, so I had to interject and tell him that it was the tutor that our fellow student had addressed.

I could add he was exceedingly busy on student fora too, advising people in similar fashion.
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Tonibel wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:"Wealth creation" and "Aspiration"

Fuck off. Just. Fuck. Off.

Because nothing symbolises the Labour Party like I want to be loaded, irrespective of the ways and means hey LK? Show me the polling data related to specific Labour manifesto pledges that show this is the way to go. Just one.
We need less aspiration and more hope.
Liz Kendall can get lost as far as I am concerned. Useless candidate, if I want a Tory I can vote for Cameron.
Are you all getting data from the source, please? I don't care particularly about Liz Kendall, I've no agenda here. I wanted confirmation the Guardian posted below was correct. I've found statements she's made that utterly contradict what's being said in this headline.
Liz Kendall: Labour must ditch 'fantasy' that Britain has moved to the left

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... p-election" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Lots of people told me during the election they couldn’t see Ed as Prime Minister. But we didn’t lose because of Ed’s personality. We lost because of our politics," she said.

"We win when we offer hope and opportunity, not merely sympathy and grievance. And we win when we set out a clear direction for our country, not just a collection of causes and criticisms. Winning next time will require real courage – and I don’t just mean courage against predictable bogeymen."

"When it comes to the public services I am firmly on the side of the public. The clue is in the name. Services should revolve around the people who use them - not the other way round – and be fit for the future, not stuck in the past."

"As leader, I’m not going to waste time obsessing about school structures. If a school is providing a great education – whether it’s a local authority, academy or free school – we will back it. Full stop. What’s more, if someone wants to help run their school, they deserve credit not criticism," she said.

"Under my leadership, Labour will no longer stand by while the Prime Minister weakens our country and allows the world to become less secure. That means insisting that the UK maintains our basic NATO commitment to continue spending two percent on defence.

"As leader of the Opposition I will hold David Cameron to account for Britain’s promise to our allies and I’ll oppose him if he breaks it."

"There’s no point in saying you believe in economic credibility, and being careful with taxpayers money, if the public services that money pays for are a reform free zone. On business, I want to change our whole approach, not just set up a new committee."

"When Labour loses we do one of three things. We decide we didn’t win because we weren’t left wing enough – the fantasy.
We decide we can avoid the really tough decisions because they’re just too uncomfortable – the fudge. Or we decide that winning is too important and that we will do whatever it takes – the way forward,
" she said.

"There is a real and fundamental choice in this leadership contest. We’ve just fought an election on a traditional platform and suffered a terrible defeat. We don’t just need to change a little bit here or there where its easy - and then have a whole sea of no go areas because they’re too difficult, or they’ll upset someone, maybe someone powerful."

Asked if she was the 'Blairite' candidate, Ms Kendall replied that she didn't want to 'go back to the past', but pointed out that Blair had won three elections. "I'm a moderniser who's true to our values," she said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/05 ... 1432218873" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Her quote is totally mangled unless I'm not reading something right.
ohsocynical
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

Ben Page, Ipsos MORI ‏@benatipsosmori 1 hr1 hour ago

Watch for our information on who actually voted in #ge2015 tomorrow. Turnout up among some groups but DOWN among others
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

I'm astounded how hard I had to work to find words I'm reasonably sure came out of Kendall in the correct context.

https://twitter.com/LizforLeader" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.lizkendall.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sign up here and we'll be in touch.

http://www.lizforleader.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

Look at the news headlines after the GE all excited about how the UK turned out in highest numbers ever.

The 2015 General Election represents one of the largest figures in terms of voter turnout in recent years
https://www.wessexscene.co.uk/politics/ ... -election/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

General Election 2015 turnout: Parties hail record number of voters
http://www.cityam.com/215310/polls-clos ... rd-turnout" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The highest turnout in a General Election since 1997 was expected this morning and it’s been put down to ‘high stakes’
and the fact voters had more parties to chose from.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor ... es-9209860" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I didn't go looking for these headlines I was searching the Internet for voter turnout formatted in a better way for ease of checking out how close the races were. I was bewildered to find these headlines. 66.1%? Woo hoo. 34% of the registered electorate don't show up to vote & that prompted those headlines? Or did they do for Dave & his Tory pack? Establishing a narrative.
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

If Liz Kendall wants my vote she's going the wrong way about it. I have no aspiration and I do not generate wealth, I work, most days bloody hard. I also work in the public sector these days, much maligned of course and I notice the creeping in of "the UK is a 7 day a week economy" so no doubt the remuneration people like me get for working weekends and unsocial hours will be more in the spotlight. I doubt Kendall on present form will be too bothered to stand up and be counted there, more interested in aspiration, whatever the fuck that means and wealth creating.

I write that not as one with far left views, I am more pragmatic than that, I grew in a solidly working class home, mother a housewife, father a miner, I didn't have the luxury of education after I left school, worked in a factory where every year we had good paid holidays, a guaranteed 3% pay rise and reasonable conditions. People like me weren't and aren't interested in wealth creation, I could clean cars on the side of the road, fair play to those who do and some knob would class it as wealth creation, some of the slimiest toads in the country are deemed as creaters of wealth, all bollocks of course, and as soon as someone going for the leadership talks about people I once was, happy with a reasonable wage, paid my bills and a bit to spend and save the better, cut out this wealth creation and aspiration bollocks.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by tinyclanger2 »

People I knew who were aspirational were the wives of "self made men" who put on posh accents and moved to cheshire. I thought of it as Annie Walker Syndrome.

And now for a lie down in a darkened room.

edited to spell "Walker" correctly. (mislaid my PorFavor Dictionary of the English language)
Last edited by tinyclanger2 on Thu 21 May, 2015 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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utopiandreams
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

Anyone watching Channel 4 News? I'm glad I have no internet friends, well those I'd share stuff I wouldn't anybody else.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... p-election
which is why I say can these lot please just join the Tories and pull them to the left and leave Labour to people who aren't some kind of Tory.
I'm reading a lot things from her from other sources, the twitter feeds, other articles, her speeches that contradict what's happening in that article.

Seriously, I don't know the woman, I don't care about being wrong & I'm glad to find out now she's not a good choice.
But I'm getting different stories depending on the source.
This happened yesterday, apparently.
Liz Kendall's Labour leadership website name hijacked by troll
Contender learns harsh lesson in web campaigning as near-identical domain name links to frontrunner Andy Burnham’s page and Rick Astley video

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... d-by-troll" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think that's why I was subjected to this annoyance posted below.
I found it off-putting.
But if her website is getting spammed, I guess that might have something to do with it.
Sign up here and we'll be in touch.

http://www.lizforleader.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

tinyclanger2 wrote:People I knew who were aspirational were the wives of "self made men" who put on posh accents and moved to cheshire. I thought of it as Annie Walter Syndrome.

And now for a lie down in a darkened room.
I once knew a Geordie who always said he'd marry a rich girl. He did! I'll leave it at that.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by LadyCentauria »

ephemerid wrote:I have just read an interesting post on the Polly Toynbee thread - from someone called Simon Thorpe who has a fascinating CIF profile.

He says that in the UK there are £2 Quadrillion's-worth of financial transactions.
This is a figure that's too big for me to understand....

Mr.Thorpe reckons that the total tax revenue is £513.6 Billion.
But a Financial Transaction Tax could do this -
Set at 0.016% it could eliminate public sector debt in 5 years;
Set at 0.025% it could cover the cost of all government expenditure;
Set at 0.04% it could pay an unconditional basic income of £1,000 a month to every man, woman and child in the UK.

I have no idea if his calculations are correct - but judging by his posting history and profile, I'm inclined to think he is.
He's a Research Director at the Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique in Toulouse. His blog is here: http://simonthorpesideas.blogspot.co.uk/. Interesting guy, and I rather think he'll be correct on his figures. His specialisms, on which he has written extensively, are computational neuroscience, vision, perception, memory, and neural-networks.
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citizenJA
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

letsskiptotheleft wrote:I write that not as one with far left views, I am more pragmatic than that, I grew in a solidly working class home, mother a housewife, father a miner, I didn't have the luxury of education after I left school, worked in a factory where every year we had good paid holidays, a guaranteed 3% pay rise and reasonable conditions. People like me weren't and aren't interested in wealth creation, I could clean cars on the side of the road, fair play to those who do and some knob would class it as wealth creation, some of the slimiest toads in the country are deemed as creaters of wealth, all bollocks of course, and as soon as someone going for the leadership talks about people I once was, happy with a reasonable wage, paid my bills and a bit to spend and save the better, cut out this wealth creation and aspiration bollocks.
I love this.
Our values are more less the same
I'm going to brass tack my own vision just as simply as you've done.
I'm going to use it as my CV.
Let's send this message to our Labour peoples talking about leadership.
Encourage them to to do the same.
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

@tinyclanger2

Just Googled Annie Walker. Still none the wiser, I'm afraid.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

Jesus Christ! Just read the Guardian piece about Kendall, someone please direct her in the direction of the Tory party.
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

letsskiptotheleft wrote:If Liz Kendall wants my vote she's going the wrong way about it. I have no aspiration and I do not generate wealth, I work, most days bloody hard. I also work in the public sector these days, much maligned of course and I notice the creeping in of "the UK is a 7 day a week economy" so no doubt the remuneration people like me get for working weekends and unsocial hours will be more in the spotlight. I doubt Kendall on present form will be too bothered to stand up and be counted there, more interested in aspiration, whatever the fuck that means and wealth creating.

I write that not as one with far left views, I am more pragmatic than that, I grew in a solidly working class home, mother a housewife, father a miner, I didn't have the luxury of education after I left school, worked in a factory where every year we had good paid holidays, a guaranteed 3% pay rise and reasonable conditions. People like me weren't and aren't interested in wealth creation, I could clean cars on the side of the road, fair play to those who do and some knob would class it as wealth creation, some of the slimiest toads in the country are deemed as creaters of wealth, all bollocks of course, and as soon as someone going for the leadership talks about people I once was, happy with a reasonable wage, paid my bills and a bit to spend and save the better, cut out this wealth creation and aspiration bollocks.
Yes. Exactly the same as myself.
And as long as we had our health everything else was secondary.
Mind you, I've done a fair bit of wealth creation in my time. Even sold some of my clothes when we had an unexpected bill to pay and were broke. ;) :lol:
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Coronation street landlady.
university of the big W wrote:The character of Annie has been noted as "snobbish"[1] and "snooty"[2] due to her condescending attitude and delusions of grandeur.[3] Despite this, Annie proved to be one of the show's most popular characters and Speed received more fan mail than any other cast member at the time. For her service, Speed was later declared a "national treasure" by the media and received an MBE in 1977
Edited to add @utopiandreams Annie Walker
Last edited by tinyclanger2 on Thu 21 May, 2015 7:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ephemerid
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by ephemerid »

letsskiptotheleft wrote:If Liz Kendall wants my vote she's going the wrong way about it. I have no aspiration and I do not generate wealth, I work, most days bloody hard. I also work in the public sector these days, much maligned of course and I notice the creeping in of "the UK is a 7 day a week economy" so no doubt the remuneration people like me get for working weekends and unsocial hours will be more in the spotlight. I doubt Kendall on present form will be too bothered to stand up and be counted there, more interested in aspiration, whatever the fuck that means and wealth creating.

I write that not as one with far left views, I am more pragmatic than that, I grew in a solidly working class home, mother a housewife, father a miner, I didn't have the luxury of education after I left school, worked in a factory where every year we had good paid holidays, a guaranteed 3% pay rise and reasonable conditions. People like me weren't and aren't interested in wealth creation, I could clean cars on the side of the road, fair play to those who do and some knob would class it as wealth creation, some of the slimiest toads in the country are deemed as creaters of wealth, all bollocks of course, and as soon as someone going for the leadership talks about people I once was, happy with a reasonable wage, paid my bills and a bit to spend and save the better, cut out this wealth creation and aspiration bollocks.

This.

I remember when I was small, and my dad earned enough as an engineer/technical author to keep a family.
That was plenty - we weren't well-off, but he had his hobbies (tinkering with vintage cars which he bought from Exchange & Mart in bits)
Mum worked too, once we were safely in school.

We always had a council house, and until I grew up and left, we had teachers and our doctor living in our road and it was a good mix of people. Right to buy finished all that, and people moved on, up, or whatever.

When I was nursing, my aspiration was to be a sister. I got there, and it was enough for me. If I hadn't taken time out for a family, I suspect I'd still be doing that, just getting better at it. The pay was enough, Not fantastic, but enough.

When the big retail shops started their Sunday opening, staff were not paid more for weekends; the same applied when they started 24 hour opening. I have every reason to think that Camerons' 7-day NHS will involve tinkering with shift patterns and unsocial hours pay; there is no way he can do what he claims unless he employs more staff and finds a way to pay them less.

Aspiration - ask a little boy what he wants to be and he might say a policeman or a builder, he might say a doctor or a spaceman. As he grows up, he'll come to understand that he can be any of those things and none.

I happen to think it is OK to tell a child that it is a perfectly good aspiration to want to make things out of wood, or build a boat, or save lives as a consultant oncologist - but what's most important is not that they make wealth or wear themselves out trying to do something they're not suited to just because it's fucking aspirational.
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by letsskiptotheleft »

Ohso and JA, ta very much, getting a tad frustrated with the language leadership contenders are using, no doubt the "aspiration" critique is aimed at the south east, well guess what, there are those living there who want the same as others in other parts of the country, a reasonable wage, chance of a house and a bit left over.
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

What should, could and will Cameron get from his EU renegotiation?
http://www.capx.co/what-should-could-an ... gotiation/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Andrew Lilico.

It's an interesting read. I will probably try and file it away somewhere to refer back to when Cameron sets out his renegotiated package to the country ... as Lilico goes into the detail of how some things can probably be negotiated that will look pretty good on the surface but will be exactly that - cosmetic and in some cases very short term as the EU is set to change composition and the rules will change again.

Hadn't realised that the UK doesn't use the existing flexibility it already has on benefit entitlements for EU citizens ...

And he ends by suggesting Cameron might actually come out and argue for a No to staying in the E.U ... a bit of a shocker that.
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Thursday 21st May 2015

Post by citizenJA »

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Ohso and JA, ta very much, getting a tad frustrated with the language leadership contenders are using, no doubt the "aspiration" critique is aimed at the south east, well guess what, there are those living there who want the same as others in other parts of the country, a reasonable wage, chance of a house and a bit left over.
I understand.
I agree.
I'm not supporting Liz Kendall's leadership bid.
I read the G article & was so aghast I went looking to find it confirmed or not.
May I request you read the Huffington Post article published today about Kendall, please?
More than anything, I'm confused & wary.
Quotes & parts of speech are included or not in different articles about the same topic.
Again, I don't support Kendall, she's said some dismaying things.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/05 ... 1432218873" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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