Saturday 23rd and Sunday 24th May Weekend Edition

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sat 23 May, 2015 2:36 pm

Swarthlander wrote:And, I don't know what you are all moaning about.

Tonight for our delectation is the great spectacle of the Eurovision Song Contest - be grateful.

...with a guest appearance of that well-known European country ... Australia !

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 23 May, 2015 2:41 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
Swarthlander wrote:And, I don't know what you are all moaning about.

Tonight for our delectation is the great spectacle of the Eurovision Song Contest - be grateful.
...with a guest appearance of that well-known European country ... Australia !

Yes - that perplexed me, too. It could be because they have a lot of European-descended members of their population - but so do a lot of other places. Like - oh, Israel? I haven't heard any explanation for Australia's inclusion but I haven't felt moved to investigate the matter, either.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 23 May, 2015 2:44 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote:
Swarthlander wrote:And, I don't know what you are all moaning about.

Tonight for our delectation is the great spectacle of the Eurovision Song Contest - be grateful.
...with a guest appearance of that well-known European country ... Australia !
Yes - that perplexed me, too. It could be because they have a lot of European-descended members of their population - but so do a lot of other places. Like - oh, Israel? I haven't heard any explanation for Australia's inclusion but I haven't felt moved to investigate the matter, either.

Israel already competes in the Eurovision though, doesn't it? Didn't they have a transgender contestant a few years back that caused a bit of a media storm? Sorry PF - brain a bit addled from gardening on a precipice for a few hours.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sat 23 May, 2015 2:46 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote:
Swarthlander wrote:And, I don't know what you are all moaning about.

Tonight for our delectation is the great spectacle of the Eurovision Song Contest - be grateful.
...with a guest appearance of that well-known European country ... Australia !
Yes - that perplexed me, too. It could be because they have a lot of European-descended members of their population - but so do a lot of other places. Like - oh, Israel? I haven't heard any explanation for Australia's inclusion but I haven't felt moved to investigate the matter, either.

Revenge - they inflict us with Neighbours, so we make them enter Eurovision.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 23 May, 2015 2:46 pm

Swarthlander wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
PorFavor wrote: Does Mrohsocynical have to show his papers in order to cross into your half of the garage?
Hah. I have to have papers to cross into his...

I used to wait until he was at work and then have a blitz, not tell him what I'd chucked out, and hope he wouldn't notice, but now he's pretty much home all day it's a case of who has the strongest will power.
I know the situation well - It might just come in handy - everything has a value and nowt's worth throwing out.
I can regale you with a tale of spending month's clearing out my late step-father's smallholding. The end result being over 100 tons of scrap metal and machinery - all totally useless and rotten. There were parts of the yard that hadn't see daylight since before I was born.

My mother (and the neighbours) were happy.

This morning was about stuff that 'might' come in handy. Foam, bits of wood. There wasn't masses as I'm pretty strict when I clear out. I've been saving cardboard boxes so they got stacked neatly. There wasn't one thing for the charity shop.

Mr Ohso though is a different kettle of fish. Being American people are always bringing him ball caps. The trouble is he has around forty years worth. Hundreds.
I gathered them all together and stuffed them into black sacks the last time I ventured into his territory. They will have to go when we move.
To give him credit he's been getting rid of a lot of his musical equipment although I swear it's breeding. Seems to be more now than the last time I tackled his section. He has given away masses including some really nice guitars...He didn't want to sell them, just see them go to an appreciative home. A couple are special though, so they'll come with us including the Echo twelve string that I bought him for our ninth wedding anniversary, 44 years ago.

A couple of amps are earmarked for our granddaughter's school, plus music stands and microphones.
Pulling him away from those last bits is going to be painful because it's a door shutting on a very large part of his life.

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Sat 23 May, 2015 2:49 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote: ...with a guest appearance of that well-known European country ... Australia !
Yes - that perplexed me, too. It could be because they have a lot of European-descended members of their population - but so do a lot of other places. Like - oh, Israel? I haven't heard any explanation for Australia's inclusion but I haven't felt moved to investigate the matter, either.
Israel already competes in the Eurovision though, doesn't it? Didn't they have a transgender contestant a few years back that caused a bit of a media storm? Sorry PF - brain a bit addled from gardening on a precipice for a few hours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_in_ ... ng_Contest" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For your information.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 23 May, 2015 2:49 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote: ...with a guest appearance of that well-known European country ... Australia !
Yes - that perplexed me, too. It could be because they have a lot of European-descended members of their population - but so do a lot of other places. Like - oh, Israel? I haven't heard any explanation for Australia's inclusion but I haven't felt moved to investigate the matter, either.
Israel already competes in the Eurovision though, doesn't it? Didn't they have a transgender contestant a few years back that caused a bit of a media storm? Sorry PF - brain a bit addled from gardening on a precipice for a few hours.

Hello.

Yes - I was trying to point out that Israel was just as much a European oddity as Australia (albeit Israel being a little geographically nearer) and yet is, I think, a regular entrant.

(I think gardening on a precipice would addle my brain, too!)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 23 May, 2015 2:54 pm

I am worried about my mental state ... election blues and spats here aside ... when I find myself listening to David Skelton on the political round up programme on Radio 4 and thinking ... he's got a reasonable handle on quite a few things the Tories need to do to reach out to more people. I actually found myself thinking a Tory sounded more sensible and down to earth than many of the Labour people we've heard in recent days.

I am obviously too open to influence - too sponge-like. (And yes, I'm sure if I look closer at the policies of Renewal his organisation I'll find some assumptions and measures I really won't like - I haven't been completely overwhelmed).

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 23 May, 2015 2:59 pm

Independent.ie ‏@Independent_ie 25m25 minutes ago
Stephen Fry tweets 'Oscar Wilde smiles in his grave' upon hearing news of #MarRef vote http://indo.ie/NkAG1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 23 May, 2015 3:00 pm

Swarthlander wrote:... Tonight for our delectation is the great spectacle of the Eurovision Song Contest - be grateful.

I'm confused, Swarthlander, I thought we'd left Europe now that Cameron is back in Number 10. Hadn't I heard that Australia was taking our place?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 23 May, 2015 3:03 pm

Swarthlander wrote:And, I don't know what you are all moaning about.

Tonight for our delectation is the great spectacle of the Eurovision Song Contest - be grateful.

Have got pink champagne on ice (or at least in the 'fridge)

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 23 May, 2015 3:05 pm

Swarthlander wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
UK tops chart of EU food waste (Guardian)
I know we spoke about this yesterday, but the graph in this Guardian article is interesting.

I'd like to know if the countries which score well (ie low) have any recorded higher instances of food poisoning etc. If they don't, we need more than a slight adjustment in the regulations.

Edited to add the link.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/m ... food-waste
Maybe we should all keep pigs and hens then there would be little waste.

I don't think the Council would let me do that in the teeny-tiny front-garden of my flat – no back garden, either

Where I used to live, our flats overlooked some older low-rise blocks where the ground floor flats had gurt long fifty-foot gardens out front. Lovely old chap there had one side of the garden path laid to lawn and flowers, 'for the missus,' and the other side was his chicken-coop and veg-plot where his hens scratched away happily in the daytime. Lovely eggs with rich golden yolks.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 23 May, 2015 3:11 pm

And here's another reason to doubt my equilibrium today ... I think on first glance this is probably a good move from the Tories.

New law will force councils to merge services to improve adoption rates
Schools and adoption bill will require local authorities to merge services in effort to increase pool of potential adopters and reduce waiting times
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... tion-rates" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 23 May, 2015 3:12 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:I am worried about my mental state ... election blues and spats here aside ... when I find myself listening to David Skelton on the political round up programme on Radio 4 and thinking ... he's got a reasonable handle on quite a few things the Tories need to do to reach out to more people. I actually found myself thinking a Tory sounded more sensible and down to earth than many of the Labour people we've heard in recent days.

I am obviously too open to influence - too sponge-like. (And yes, I'm sure if I look closer at the policies of Renewal his organisation I'll find some assumptions and measures I really won't like - I haven't been completely overwhelmed).

I'm not sure of whom you refer, rebecca, but I listened to Cameron the other day speaking about the NHS I believe and thought he sounded reasonable. 'And you think you're worried, then I realised I was listening to an incorrigible liar.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 23 May, 2015 3:13 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote:
Swarthlander wrote:And, I don't know what you are all moaning about.

Tonight for our delectation is the great spectacle of the Eurovision Song Contest - be grateful.
...with a guest appearance of that well-known European country ... Australia !
Yes - that perplexed me, too. It could be because they have a lot of European-descended members of their population - but so do a lot of other places. Like - oh, Israel? I haven't heard any explanation for Australia's inclusion but I haven't felt moved to investigate the matter, either.

Eurovision offered a Wild-Card and Australia got it. Australia's audience for Eurovision has grown from small 'cult' beginnings into a full-blown extravaganza of kitsch and singalong parties, partly fuelled, from the start, by loving Terry Wogan's commentary and partly by the gay community, as here, and the whole glitz and glam aspect of it. It's been carried on national television for a good many years with a still-growing audience.

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Sat 23 May, 2015 3:14 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:I am worried about my mental state ... election blues and spats here aside ... when I find myself listening to David Skelton on the political round up programme on Radio 4 and thinking ... he's got a reasonable handle on quite a few things the Tories need to do to reach out to more people. I actually found myself thinking a Tory sounded more sensible and down to earth than many of the Labour people we've heard in recent days.

I am obviously too open to influence - too sponge-like. (And yes, I'm sure if I look closer at the policies of Renewal his organisation I'll find some assumptions and measures I really won't like - I haven't been completely overwhelmed).

The problem is - what we have been hearing lately from the Labour leadership contenders is that they lost the election because the party wasn't Tory enough (sod Blair).

Maybe that is true? Maybe the electorate has become more selfish than in the 80s? It's a horrible thought.
However, I'm waiting for the Leadership campaign proper and to see what is on offer. If I don't like "any of the above" I will not vote and will seriously reconsider my Party membership.
I'm left of centre. I don't need to be but I have a conscience to deal with.

As for the real Tories, give it time, they will destroy themselves. Unfortunately they may take the UK with them.

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Sat 23 May, 2015 3:21 pm

utopiandreams wrote:
Swarthlander wrote:... Tonight for our delectation is the great spectacle of the Eurovision Song Contest - be grateful.
I'm confused, Swarthlander, I thought we'd left Europe now that Cameron is back in Number 10. Hadn't I heard that Australia was taking our place?

Maybe we should organise the Commonwealth Song Contest? It doesn't have the same ring to it though.

But with Australia taking part it shouldn't be too difficult to find bearded blokes in frocks.
Australia - where men are men - and so are the women!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 23 May, 2015 3:32 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:I am worried about my mental state ... election blues and spats here aside ... when I find myself listening to David Skelton on the political round up programme on Radio 4 and thinking ... he's got a reasonable handle on quite a few things the Tories need to do to reach out to more people. I actually found myself thinking a Tory sounded more sensible and down to earth than many of the Labour people we've heard in recent days.

I am obviously too open to influence - too sponge-like. (And yes, I'm sure if I look closer at the policies of Renewal his organisation I'll find some assumptions and measures I really won't like - I haven't been completely overwhelmed).

Has "Renewal" been around for a while in some form or another? I admit to feeling a bit confused by the sensibleness (?) of some of the things they were saying a year or more ago, now (seemingly very 1950s style but not in a bad way), if we're thinking of the same outfit. I've attached a link (which I've not yet fully investigated), just in case you're interested.

(I'm not their recruitment agent, just in case you're wondering!)

http://www.renewalgroup.org.uk/blog/

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 23 May, 2015 3:36 pm

Am a bit in mourning for messrs Snozer, Latimer, Squeaker and many others.
Was bad enough losing Ed.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 23 May, 2015 3:37 pm

Swarthlander wrote:... But with Australia taking part it shouldn't be too difficult to find bearded blokes in frocks...

I can't speak for blokes in frocks, Swarthlander, but remember back early days with my late wife. We shared a single access entry with another guy in our flat and to help save toward our house deposit she took a part time job as a, let's call it Avon Lady, although some other brand selling their wares at parties. Keen to develop her skills she decided to practise on me. Albeit not entirely comfortable it was nice to be pampered.

There was a knock at the door when the other chap wanted letting out, my car blocking his. Fully made up with lipstick and mascara I was grateful that the hallway wasn't especially well lit. Nevertheless he seemed to be give me undue levels of attention. Never again!

Edit: oops, replaced the noun practice with the verb.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 23 May, 2015 3:41 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote: ...with a guest appearance of that well-known European country ... Australia !
Yes - that perplexed me, too. It could be because they have a lot of European-descended members of their population - but so do a lot of other places. Like - oh, Israel? I haven't heard any explanation for Australia's inclusion but I haven't felt moved to investigate the matter, either.
Eurovision offered a Wild-Card and Australia got it. Australia's audience for Eurovision has grown from small 'cult' beginnings into a full-blown extravaganza of kitsch and singalong parties, partly fuelled, from the start, by loving Terry Wogan's commentary and partly by the gay community, as here, and the whole glitz and glam aspect of it. It's been carried on national television for a good many years with a still-growing audience.

You seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject . . . .

Thanks for the information!

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 23 May, 2015 3:44 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:And here's another reason to doubt my equilibrium today ... I think on first glance this is probably a good move from the Tories.
New law will force councils to merge services to improve adoption rates
Schools and adoption bill will require local authorities to merge services in effort to increase pool of potential adopters and reduce waiting times
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... tion-rates" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why is adoption tied in with schools in this proposed piece of legislation? And what the hell is in the schools part of the bill? I'd imagine it's moving more schools away from LA oversight and control. Not asking you for the answers to those, rr2, just wondering aloud. I really think it'd be sensible to look at the idea that legislation should all be stand-alone because I don't like it when you get something like, oh I don't know, you can't change the law on labelling of additives in children's sweets because someone thought it'd be a good idea to include it in a bill called 'vehicle registration and ownership' so you'd have to overturn that in order to proceed.

On adoption itself, aiming for wider co-operation on adoption between councils throughout the whole country would make sense (especially where an LA is having difficulty placing a particular child or in keeping a group of siblings together) but simply tying neighbouring councils together into a new, slightly larger but still ring-fenced, area could only go part-way to solving those harder problems.

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Sat 23 May, 2015 3:45 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:
I don't think the Council would let me do that in the teeny-tiny front-garden of my flat – no back garden, either

Then, maybe, in the next Labour Party manifesto, instead of owls, it should be either pigs or chickens or both. Everyone is given a free pig or chicken!

They can be as good as dogs with the added extra that they make good sunday dinners - but only the once.

Disclaimer.
Chickens can not be house trained (pigs can). Your carpets and furniture can be at risk if you do not have an outside chicken run.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 23 May, 2015 3:55 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:And here's another reason to doubt my equilibrium today ... I think on first glance this is probably a good move from the Tories.
New law will force councils to merge services to improve adoption rates
Schools and adoption bill will require local authorities to merge services in effort to increase pool of potential adopters and reduce waiting times
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... tion-rates" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Probably because cuts to council income may well be forcing some to close or cut back - merging them might be the only way for them to survive.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 23 May, 2015 4:00 pm

There is a rumour going round that Tulip Siddiq (new Labour PM for Hampstead and Kilburn) is going to vote to bring back hunting.

michael daley
‏@trophybhoy @peopleman44 @UKLabour @TulipSiddiq Yes but Tulip is not and plans to vote for the repeal.

If anyone comes across it - its not true.

Oliver Denton ‏@politicoli · 1h1 hour ago
@nauraavesiharma @Rosiecat2 @peopleman44 @TulipSiddiq Tulip is very much anti-hunting. Where is this misinformation from?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 23 May, 2015 4:03 pm

David Skelton does often sound very reasonable and sensible, so its not just you and you don't need to be too worried

The point is, most of his suggestions are ignored by the Tory leadership - is there any reason to suppose that won't continue?

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 23 May, 2015 4:09 pm

PorFavor wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:
PorFavor wrote: Yes - that perplexed me, too. It could be because they have a lot of European-descended members of their population - but so do a lot of other places. Like - oh, Israel? I haven't heard any explanation for Australia's inclusion but I haven't felt moved to investigate the matter, either.
Eurovision offered a Wild-Card and Australia got it. Australia's audience for Eurovision has grown from small 'cult' beginnings into a full-blown extravaganza of kitsch and singalong parties, partly fuelled, from the start, by loving Terry Wogan's commentary and partly by the gay community, as here, and the whole glitz and glam aspect of it. It's been carried on national television for a good many years with a still-growing audience.
You seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject . . . .

Thanks for the information!

The oddest things stick in my mind, thanks to nearly always having telly or radio in the background at home. It was in a news 'feature' bit when they got confirmation of Australia's application being accepted. I'll admit I'm likely to be listening to Eurovision, tonight – mostly so I'll know what the hell various friends are on about! The act I think is best rarely wins, although I was delighted when Lordi won

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 23 May, 2015 4:15 pm

Swarthlander wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:
I don't think the Council would let me do that in the teeny-tiny front-garden of my flat – no back garden, either
Then, maybe, in the next Labour Party manifesto, instead of owls, it should be either pigs or chickens or both. Everyone is given a free pig or chicken! They can be as good as dogs with the added extra that they make good sunday dinners - but only the once.

Disclaimer.
Chickens can not be house trained (pigs can). Your carpets and furniture can be at risk if you do not have an outside chicken run.

Ah, I knows about pigs and have helped train piglets

Agree, partly, about the next Manifesto... But I wanted a pony!!! Waah! Sob!!!

<that's me having a tantrum, that is

Swarthlander · Post by **Swarthlander** » Sat 23 May, 2015 4:24 pm

LadyCentauria wrote: Agree, partly, about the next Manifesto... But I wanted a pony!!! Waah! Sob!!! <that's me having a tantrum, that is

Oh! But.... that's so.... Tory!

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 23 May, 2015 4:33 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:There is a rumour going round that Tulip Siddiq (new Labour PM for Hampstead and Kilburn) is going to vote to bring back hunting.

michael daley
‏@trophybhoy @peopleman44 @UKLabour @TulipSiddiq Yes but Tulip is not and plans to vote for the repeal.

If anyone comes across it - its not true.

Oliver Denton ‏@politicoli · 1h1 hour ago
@nauraavesiharma @Rosiecat2 @peopleman44 @TulipSiddiq Tulip is very much anti-hunting. Where is this misinformation from?

Goodness knows but that's awful for her, having her name put out there as a supporter of measures she really doesn't support. It can be hard to shrug off unfair tags and accusations, as we saw with Labour trying to counter the falsehoods put about during the election campaigns (and for many years before that) by Cameron's crew. P'raps someone's got her confused with Priti Patel?

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 23 May, 2015 4:34 pm

I re-discovered, purely accidentally, this article from 2012, which I feel is very relevant to our post electoral situation where we are about to see even more cuts targeted at poor, sick and disabled people, and not just those without work, but low paid people too.

https://mikesivier.wordpress.com/2012/1 ... ope-in-uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 23 May, 2015 4:42 pm

seeingclearly wrote:I re-discovered, purely accidentally, this article from 2012, which I feel is very relevant to our post electoral situation where we are about to see even more cuts targeted at poor, sick and disabled people, and not just those without work, but low paid people too.

https://mikesivier.wordpress.com/2012/1 ... ope-in-uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We know better now. They are an immovable force. There will be very little that opposition parties can do over the next five years.

It's horribly depressing.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 23 May, 2015 5:04 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:I re-discovered, purely accidentally, this article from 2012, which I feel is very relevant to our post electoral situation where we are about to see even more cuts targeted at poor, sick and disabled people, and not just those without work, but low paid people too.

https://mikesivier.wordpress.com/2012/1 ... ope-in-uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
We know better now. They are an immovable force. There will be very little that opposition parties can do over the next five years.

It's horribly depressing.

I was more interested in the case to be made against them re the UN investigation. There has been I believe distinct evidence to say that they are well aware of the end results of their policies, not just in terms of deaths but also mental health outcomes. Data is emerging to support the evidence we can clearly notice of damage to individuals and select groups. In spite of this they are continuing in an unstoppable way. I'm sure that the various disability groups will be keeping tabs on this, but have no idea if data is being collected or even if there are any groups looking out for 16-25 year olds, or any other specific targeted group such as homeless people,

While it is depressing the only way to ensure that they are in someway under pressure is to deal in realities on the ground. For this purpose I think intentional harm is a significant factor.

I'm ashamed sometimes when I realise that very little of any of this would have surfaced at all if not for dedicated disabled people. Ashamed not for myself, you understand, but that the nation I see represented by marathon running, breast cancer supporting, scanner donating, etc. type middle class earners will turn their back on such suffering, taking the easy, lazy route of thinking it is exaggeration or that it is somehow a moral sanction rather than a sanction that affects survival.

If we ever do recover from this and things are put to rights again, I really feel such things should be put outside of party politics. I have no idea how, but it's a discussion that needs having.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 23 May, 2015 5:10 pm

ohsocynical wrote:... We know better now. They are an immovable force. There will be very little that opposition parties can do over the next five years.

It's horribly depressing.

I know what you mean, ohso, I certainly don't want to drift back to my feelings after the last election; perhaps my disillusionment with my erstwhile LibDems were part of it. Anyway despite all the horrors I still cling to my belief in the inherent goodness of my fellow man. With such a small majority I hope that there are some nominal Tories that are open to persuasion or at least have a greater sense of decency than some I could mention.

Then again, I see that amongst others, May seems even more extreme. No, I shall not despair!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 23 May, 2015 5:30 pm

RECLAIM Project ‏@RECLAIMproject 44 minutes ago

Erm, pls can you also cover working class young people marching through central Manchester, calling for change..? RECLAIM Project added,

Manchester News MEN @MENnewsdesk

Cow on M62 brings motorway traffic to a halt

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... ar_twitter

Until something is done about our news media, the Conservatives have free reign.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 23 May, 2015 5:30 pm

Just signed this Avaaz campaign:

Save the BBC
To John Whittingdale (Minister of Culture, Media and Sport), David Cameron and other key MPs in Parliament:
The BBC is a crucial public service broadcaster in Britain and across the world which millions of people rely on everyday. We call on you to protect this British institution by ensuring it has the necessary governance structure which is free from interference and the required resources to remain a strong, independent and inspiring broadcaster.

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/uk_media_rb1/?ckfxtbb

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Sat 23 May, 2015 5:40 pm

Afternoon folks,
Lovely sunny day here, so a nice walk up the Derwent Valley followed by another round in the me vs bindweed battle.

I've been sporadic for a couple of weeks, so excuse me if this has been covered. Before the election (hawk....spit), several polls suggested that many of Eds left wing policies were popular across the spectrum (bedroom tax, student fees, bank taxes, rent controls, house building). This seems to be overlooked in the unseemly fashion parade to find a successor.
Is anyone aware if anyone has actually gone out into those key marginals and found out what swung voters towards the Tories? I'm talkin proper data, not some bloke(ess) in a suit saying Ed was anti-business, whatever that means.

I'm pretty sure the answer is to do with hate, envy and fear, and I don't see an attempt to tack to the centre dealing with that.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 23 May, 2015 6:02 pm

utopiandreams wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:... We know better now. They are an immovable force. There will be very little that opposition parties can do over the next five years.

It's horribly depressing.
I know what you mean, ohso, I certainly don't want to drift back to my feelings after the last election; perhaps my disillusionment with my erstwhile LibDems were part of it. Anyway despite all the horrors I still cling to my belief in the inherent goodness of my fellow man. With such a small majority I hope that there are some nominal Tories that are open to persuasion or at least have a greater sense of decency than some I could mention.

Then again, I see that amongst others, May seems even more extreme. No, I shall not despair!

I kept hoping they would overstep the mark so that decent people would see what's happening, but every time they did so the public carried in as if nothing had happened. The anti-austerity demonstrations are a hopeful sign, but have little chance of changing things. As remarked the can sound reasonable. So did other regimes elsewhere, it doesn't make it true. I can see Britain gearing up for its usual summertime preoccupations, and for a few summer brings a little relief as it is cheaper I.n terms of basic needs. People are good inherently in a small way, in what touches them personally, in a wider sense they are largely indifferent.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 23 May, 2015 6:07 pm

55DegreesNorth wrote: another round in the me vs bindweed battle.

Leave it a few weeks, then unwind it from whatever it's trying to throttle, stuff it in a plastic bag and spray glyphosate into it. Squish it about gently, tie the bag up and leave it tucked in among the other plants.

Repeat next year and x years after that. Eventually you'll get a result.

It's not as depressing as the hate, envy & fear, about which I'm sure you're right.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 23 May, 2015 6:26 pm

Not everybody in the Labour Party is clueless it seems.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... oters-ukip

The question is - and it is one for Ernst - how does Labour utilise its local presence to make enough of a difference to get people to engage with Labour rather than UKIP when Cameron craps all over them.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 23 May, 2015 6:35 pm

55DegreesNorth wrote:Afternoon folks,
Lovely sunny day here, so a nice walk up the Derwent Valley followed by another round in the me vs bindweed battle.

I've been sporadic for a couple of weeks, so excuse me if this has been covered. Before the election (hawk....spit), several polls suggested that many of Eds left wing policies were popular across the spectrum (bedroom tax, student fees, bank taxes, rent controls, house building). This seems to be overlooked in the unseemly fashion parade to find a successor.
Is anyone aware if anyone has actually gone out into those key marginals and found out what swung voters towards the Tories? I'm talkin proper data, not some bloke(ess) in a suit saying Ed was anti-business, whatever that means.

I'm pretty sure the answer is to do with hate, envy and fear, and I don't see an attempt to tack to the centre dealing with that.

There's people in the streets talking about all the issues you mention, getting little coverage of course. The parties of the left and Labour all had politicians who were vocal about these things, very few ever joined the protesters. It was something I respected Bennett for, that she spent time, not on the banner waving bit, but the much drearier task of talking to the public and discussing th issues, which as I'm sure some here will understand to have very mixed results.

But where are those politicians now? I don't hear them discussing this stuff or showing solidarity with protesters. The Labour candidates for leader won't even touch this stuff, and the woman who gained national prominence using a 'social justice' platform, Sturgeon, is oddly silent on such matters now.

I'd like to see politicians who care more for genuine social justice and good sensible governance than their careers come out and show some allegiance to what is right, not just what is expedient.

I'm gutted I can't be out there. I've got a valid excuse, what's theirs.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 23 May, 2015 6:37 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:Not everybody in the Labour Party is clueless it seems.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... oters-ukip

The question is - and it is one for Ernst - how does Labour utilise its local presence to make enough of a difference to get people to engage with Labour rather than UKIP when Cameron craps all over them.

Thanks for the link. I'd be interested in an expansion of "cultural".

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 23 May, 2015 6:51 pm

Labour had millions of doorstep conversations...RR2 can vouch for that. And it started last October. Not just for the last few weeks. Most of them worked damned hard.

However turnout was unexpectedly low.
Someone Tweeted that on the day a lot of people decided they couldn't be arsed...And I have a feeling it could be as simple as that.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 23 May, 2015 7:03 pm

Ireland Same-Sex Referendum - only one constituency voted No so the answer is a resounding Yes

1,201,607 voters supported Same-Sex Marriage!!!

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 23 May, 2015 7:10 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:Not everybody in the Labour Party is clueless it seems.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... oters-ukip

The question is - and it is one for Ernst - how does Labour utilise its local presence to make enough of a difference to get people to engage with Labour rather than UKIP when Cameron craps all over them.

There was always a working class undercurrent that had a narrow view of Britishness, to the point of not wanting immigration except on specific terms. There wasn't a place to put their political views across easily though without being seen as extreme. UKIP represents the gentrification of the BNP. I've found their online activists to be rather insidious, in that they sympathise with people's concerns, especially marginalised groups, and once they have made headway into becoming trusted or regarded as friends they gradually increase pressure to agree with their ideas on their main agenda, immigration, Muslims, the EU, human rights etc., I wonder if this is what they do anyway, wherever they operate. I do know they don't protect people, if they fail to agree then the befriended person gets bullied. For this reason I won't give way to their ideologues, but sometimes feel sorry for people who have seen a lot of change, but don't really understand that's happening everywhere, because they've rarely moved out of there own little patch. Budgets holidays excepted, and don't really count.

I am a supporter, as long as we have borders, of a controlled immigration policy, but not of the Theresa May variety, but not of limiting EU citizens, just ensuring no one can recruit outside of Britain in a way that undercuts local wages. I'm in no way a supporter of aggressive means of enforcing any regulations, most people visiting here from outside of the EU are well aware of visa and work permit regs and see to that well in advance of arriving. I'm also against using the term 'economic migrants' to describe people for whom our nations actions have created an inability to survive so great that they'll risk life to get here. We have people trapped here in a similar situation, who would go anywhere that would take them if they could manage it. Mostly they can't because their bodies won't let them. Properly speaking such people are refugees.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 23 May, 2015 7:12 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:Ireland Same-Sex Referendum - only one constituency voted No so the answer is a resounding Yes
1,201,607 voters supported Same-Sex Marriage!!!

Brilliant! Well done Ireland.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 23 May, 2015 7:13 pm

seeingclearly wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:Ireland Same-Sex Referendum - only one constituency voted No so the answer is a resounding Yes
1,201,607 voters supported Same-Sex Marriage!!!

Brilliant! Well done Ireland.

62% in favour, too!

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 23 May, 2015 7:20 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Labour had millions of doorstep conversations...RR2 can vouch for that. And it started last October. Not just for the last few weeks. Most of them worked damned hard.

However turnout was unexpectedly low.
Someone Tweeted that on the day a lot of people decided they couldn't be arsed...And I have a feeling it could be as simple as that.

The weather here was bad till late afternoon, I went at six because it was peeing down. Things like that deter people.

UKIP didn't have those conversations. But people did discuss them. So was this in the pub?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 23 May, 2015 7:33 pm

Goodnight, everyone.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 23 May, 2015 7:39 pm

seeingclearly wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Labour had millions of doorstep conversations...RR2 can vouch for that. And it started last October. Not just for the last few weeks. Most of them worked damned hard.

However turnout was unexpectedly low.
Someone Tweeted that on the day a lot of people decided they couldn't be arsed...And I have a feeling it could be as simple as that.
The weather here was bad till late afternoon, I went at six because it was peeing down. Things like that deter people.

UKIP didn't have those conversations. But people did discuss them. So was this in the pub?

Don't know about pubs, but the BBC played a large part. Research shows we were right. Farage was on the TV more than the Cons, and many, many times more than Labour.