Saturday 23rd and Sunday 24th May Weekend Edition

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 23 May, 2015 7:39 pm

PorFavor wrote:Goodnight, everyone.

Night PF

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 23 May, 2015 7:54 pm

Laugh a bloody minute, the SNP

Alex Salmond: I'll campaign with Tories to stay in EU
The former First Minister is accused of "staggering" hypocrisy after vilifying Labour for campaigning with the Conservatives during the independence referendum.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... in-EU.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 23 May, 2015 8:10 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Laugh a bloody minute, the SNP

Alex Salmond: I'll campaign with Tories to stay in EU
The former First Minister is accused of "staggering" hypocrisy after vilifying Labour for campaigning with the Conservatives during the independence referendum.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... in-EU.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes - I think that qualifies as staggering hypocrisy.

I think he'll get away with it though ... rational judgement seems to have gone out the window where the SNP is concerned for the time being.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 23 May, 2015 8:15 pm

Judge rules single parents are entitled to Bedroom Tax rebates for rooms their children use
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ju ... ed-5749499" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A bombshell legal ruling declares children of separated parents are entitled to TWO homes reveals Sunday People political editor Nigel Nelson. And no Bedroom Tax is payable.

Thousands of separated parents are being wrongly charged Bedroom Tax and are entitled to rebates after a shock legal ruling.

A tribunal decided that a child of parents living apart is entitled a bedroom in each of their homes for visits.

And the judge said Bedroom Tax should not apply.

The bombshell judgement in Middlesbrough is set to open the floodgates to claims by other Bedroom Tax victims that they were charged illegally.

But the Tories may try to protect their hated tax – because the Sunday People understands Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith will appeal the ruling.

Fantastic news. But of course IDS is going to appeal. Probably try to get a bit of retrospective legislation through the HoC if he doesn't get the ruling he wants from that.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 23 May, 2015 8:26 pm

I'd love to see a discussion about culture. We do have culture here, but is it something that can be fixed in terms of a single national culture. Or is it lots of overlapping layers that intersect and conjoin like really good puff pastry, with spaces inbetween to make it light? I always find the single culture model a bit offputting, you know, like all Australians wear funny hats and have kangaroos and koalas in their gardens, a spider in the dunny and a taste for Fosters.

My lovely Antipodean dwelling ex in-laws have been here recently, visiting the 'theme park' parts of the SE, and loving its essential 'real England' quality. They are travelling Europe as a celebration of 40 years together, and I'm not receiving visitors due to ill health, so I won't be taking them to the Black Country Museum to crawl through the mine working as I once did with a visiting cousin of some considerable affluence. The pictures of tranquil thatched cottages and polished interior are pretty though.

Culture is complex. I don't know if it can be coopted into becoming a national profile. Even the Swiss would, I'm sure, object to that.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 23 May, 2015 8:46 pm

seeingclearly wrote:I'd love to see a discussion about culture. We do have culture here, but is it something that can be fixed in terms of a single national culture. Or is it lots of overlapping layers that intersect and conjoin like really good puff pastry, with spaces inbetween to make it light? I always find the single culture model a bit offputting, you know, like all Australians wear funny hats and have kangaroos and koalas in their gardens, a spider in the dunny and a taste for Fosters.

My lovely Antipodean dwelling ex in-laws have been here recently, visiting the 'theme park' parts of the SE, and loving its essential 'real England' quality. They are travelling Europe as a celebration of 40 years together, and I'm not receiving visitors due to ill health, so I won't be taking them to the Black Country Museum to crawl through the mine working as I once did with a visiting cousin of some considerable affluence. The pictures of tranquil thatched cottages and polished interior are pretty though.

Culture is complex. I don't know if it can be coopted into becoming a national profile. Even the Swiss would, I'm sure, object to that.

Black Country Museum, surely a chance for a sedate canal trip through the legendary Dudley Tunnel.

Culture is an issue for Labour, how do you appeal to left wing metropolitan voters whilst still keeping the BNP wing of the working class away from UKIP? Anything sensible you do to address immigration will immediately have LGLL Diane Abbott screaming racist at you.

(Labour's Greatest Living Liability)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 23 May, 2015 9:02 pm

A discussion on culture on the night of the Eurovision song contest ... hmmm.

What do we reckon Ukippers make of this?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 23 May, 2015 9:40 pm

Yeah right....sure he is

Iain Duncan Smith in cabinet row over £12bn welfare cuts
Work and pensions secretary fighting rearguard action against any changes that would involve slashing at key benefit schemes

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -cuts-12bn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 23 May, 2015 9:53 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Yeah right....sure he is

Iain Duncan Smith in cabinet row over £12bn welfare cuts
Work and pensions secretary fighting rearguard action against any changes that would involve slashing at key benefit schemes

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -cuts-12bn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yep. The only way he'd be 'fighting a rearguard action' would be if he's been told he's got to scale back his precious UC plans by leaving out most of the benefit areas he'd planned to bring in. Ie., keep it to Jobseekers' Allowance only, and stop heamorrhaging money on such a grand scale by trying to build as extensive a system as is currently planned!

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 23 May, 2015 9:57 pm

Words. Just. Fail
Nicky Morgan Verified account
‏@NickyMorgan01 An important day in Ireland. Sends a great message that #equality matters. #equalmarriage

Jenny Wackett ‏@jennywackett · 2h2 hours ago
@NickyMorgan01 And yet you voted against for England and Wales. What a two-faced hypocrite you are…

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sat 23 May, 2015 9:57 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:A discussion on culture on the night of the Eurovision song contest ... hmmm.

What do we reckon Ukippers make of this?

Presumably they object to those Australians coming over here and stealing our points.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 23 May, 2015 10:01 pm

The whole point of our NHS reforms,’ David Cameron said, is ‘to put the power in the hands of local doctors, so that they make decisions based on what is good for their local area.’
That is tosh. Yes, most of the NHS budget was handed to GPs, who are now – phase 2 – handing it over to private corporations.

http://www.spinwatch.org/index.php/issu ... controlNHS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 23 May, 2015 10:02 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Words. Just. Fail
Nicky Morgan Verified account
‏@NickyMorgan01 An important day in Ireland. Sends a great message that #equality matters. #equalmarriage

Jenny Wackett ‏@jennywackett · 2h2 hours ago
@NickyMorgan01 And yet you voted against for England and Wales. What a two-faced hypocrite you are…

She's got some nerve that's for sure. Claims she has changed her mind about it since the vote. John Prescott re tweeted her tweet under #Awkward.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 23 May, 2015 10:13 pm

@ShoaibMKhan
Senior Tory member of the Government threatens to resign over Cameron's plans to scrap the #HumanRightsAct.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There's more
Tories at war over plan to scrap Human Rights Act
Government figure may quit in order to vote against controversial Tory plan, as Andrew Mitchell, Dominic Grieve and Damian Green warn against watering down human rights

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... s-Act.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 23 May, 2015 10:20 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:@ShoaibMKhan
Senior Tory member of the Government threatens to resign over Cameron's plans to scrap the #HumanRightsAct.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

? Where's that come from? The ones that Cameron already demoted / got rid of because they actually knew too much about human rights, legal and constitutional matters - i.e. Ken Clarke, Dominic Grieve - can't resign from posts they don't have. Is this tweeter someone in the know or just not very precise with their wording?

Editing to add: Stupid me. Should have followed the link first. Front page of Telegraph - I'll take a look now.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 23 May, 2015 10:23 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:@ShoaibMKhan
Senior Tory member of the Government threatens to resign over Cameron's plans to scrap the #HumanRightsAct.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
? Where's that come from? The ones that Cameron already demoted / got rid of because they actually knew too much about human rights, legal and constitutional matters - i.e. Ken Clarke, Dominic Grieve - can't resign from posts they don't have. Is this tweeter someone in the know or just not very precise with their wording?

Editing to add: Stupid me. Should have followed the link first. Front page of Telegraph - I'll take a look now.

Frome here
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... s-Act.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Edit to say I missed your edit....

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 23 May, 2015 10:31 pm

Cameron downgrades minister for disabled people

http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/ca ... ed-people/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 23 May, 2015 10:38 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:A discussion on culture on the night of the Eurovision song contest ... hmmm.

What do we reckon Ukippers make of this?
Presumably they object to those Australians coming over here and stealing our points.

Ha! Probably

What the Kippers would make of it I don't know but the Eurovision song contest's interval entertainment piece was certainly one of the best I've heard.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 23 May, 2015 10:45 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:I'd love to see a discussion about culture. We do have culture here, but is it something that can be fixed in terms of a single national culture. Or is it lots of overlapping layers that intersect and conjoin like really good puff pastry, with spaces inbetween to make it light? I always find the single culture model a bit offputting, you know, like all Australians wear funny hats and have kangaroos and koalas in their gardens, a spider in the dunny and a taste for Fosters.

My lovely Antipodean dwelling ex in-laws have been here recently, visiting the 'theme park' parts of the SE, and loving its essential 'real England' quality. They are travelling Europe as a celebration of 40 years together, and I'm not receiving visitors due to ill health, so I won't be taking them to the Black Country Museum to crawl through the mine working as I once did with a visiting cousin of some considerable affluence. The pictures of tranquil thatched cottages and polished interior are pretty though.

Culture is complex. I don't know if it can be coopted into becoming a national profile. Even the Swiss would, I'm sure, object to that.
Black Country Museum, surely a chance for a sedate canal trip through the legendary Dudley Tunnel.

Culture is an issue for Labour, how do you appeal to left wing metropolitan voters whilst still keeping the BNP wing of the working class away from UKIP? Anything sensible you do to address immigration will immediately have LGLL Diane Abbott screaming racist at you.

(Labour's Greatest Living Liability)

The Dudley tunnel would be no fun if you had to 'leg' your way through it! My young cousin, first visit here had no idea of British social history, was very shocked. I have no idea who he thought the heavy work was done by, his view of our culture was very sedate, all neat houses and clean gardens, and tea and cakes. Maybe he thought raw materials all came from other places. He had great difficulty understanding the concept of exploited British workers. He liked the traditional sweets though.

I spent nearly a year working on a British Waterways project in Black Country schools. Started in a place called Clayhanger, because you can't have canals ( or you couldn't then ) without clay. Some bright spark decided it would be a good idea to take a bunch of three year olds on a short trip in which the highlight was going into a very deep lock. In a narrow boat of course. They were terrified. And the nursery staff were ****ing useless. More wet pants than spare clothes, poor mites. But the older kids were in general fantastic. They knew their history, mines, canals, leather and clay, because it's all well within living memory. But there's little work in such places now.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 23 May, 2015 10:49 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:A discussion on culture on the night of the Eurovision song contest ... hmmm.

What do we reckon Ukippers make of this?

Depends on how well the Rumanians and Bulgarians do I guess. I'm not watching.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 23 May, 2015 11:01 pm

Looks like Carmichael is toast from the latest stories and news that a parliamentary standards complaint has been lodged.

The worst of all worlds for the Lib Dems - the party that proclaimed they wanted to bring back decency and trust into politics ... probably down to 7 MPs by the end of this bank holiday weekend.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 23 May, 2015 11:03 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Looks like Carmichael is toast from the latest stories and news that a parliamentary standards complaint has been lodged.

The worst of all worlds for the Lib Dems - the party that proclaimed they wanted to bring back decency and trust into politics ... probably down to 7 MPs by the end of this bank holiday weekend.

Shame about that...... but what's his majority ???

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 23 May, 2015 11:14 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Looks like Carmichael is toast from the latest stories and news that a parliamentary standards complaint has been lodged.

The worst of all worlds for the Lib Dems - the party that proclaimed they wanted to bring back decency and trust into politics ... probably down to 7 MPs by the end of this bank holiday weekend.
Shame about that...... but what's his majority ???

800 ish. Was very reduced from previous election. Lib Dem's probably goners if there's another election there.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 23 May, 2015 11:18 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Looks like Carmichael is toast from the latest stories and news that a parliamentary standards complaint has been lodged.

The worst of all worlds for the Lib Dems - the party that proclaimed they wanted to bring back decency and trust into politics ... probably down to 7 MPs by the end of this bank holiday weekend.
Shame about that...... but what's his majority ???
800 ish. Was very reduced from previous election. Lib Dem's probably goners if there's another election there.

Another SNP then ?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 23 May, 2015 11:19 pm

Night all

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 23 May, 2015 11:20 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote: Shame about that...... but what's his majority ???
800 ish. Was very reduced from previous election. Lib Dem's probably goners if there's another election there.
Another SNP then ?

Yup. And then there were 57.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 23 May, 2015 11:20 pm

Night AAW.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sun 24 May, 2015 12:27 am

AngryAsWell wrote:The whole point of our NHS reforms,’ David Cameron said, is ‘to put the power in the hands of local doctors, so that they make decisions based on what is good for their local area.’
That is tosh. Yes, most of the NHS budget was handed to GPs, who are now – phase 2 – handing it over to private corporations.

http://www.spinwatch.org/index.php/issu ... controlNHS" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What a disgusting mix of insider-dealings, vested-interests, and conflicts of interest. So, very soon it'll be those private companies and consortia who decide whether a hospital gets built or closed and all their earnings and profits will come out of the taxes we pay to support the NHS.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sun 24 May, 2015 12:36 am

Never heard of young Tulip Siddiq till today. Just come away from a Labour page featuring here and BTL was a hate feet in every direction. Is it the right thing to indulge all the hating? I get torn between free speech and its bastard children tbh, and not meaning any offence whatsoever to the great institution of absence of wedlock, but using it purely as a metaphorical descriptor of how something good does not always bring the intended results, ie more tolerance. In fact the haters were coming at her from two directions, so am not now surprised she's been targeted unfairly, as in so bodies earlier post.

Oh dear, have probably offended someone or another by trying to be fair mined while still being outraged! Which I am. This young woman has barely had a chance yet.

In other news I see the people of Peckham were not in a mood to take random immigration checks lightly.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 24 May, 2015 12:41 am

Evening all.

What with IDS apparently fighting the £12bn cuts and the unnamed cabinet minister rebelling against the abolition of the HRA...why do I get the feeling that a few people didn't expect to win?

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sun 24 May, 2015 12:50 am

AngryAsWell wrote:@ShoaibMKhan
Senior Tory member of the Government threatens to resign over Cameron's plans to scrap the #HumanRightsAct.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There's more
Tories at war over plan to scrap Human Rights Act
Government figure may quit in order to vote against controversial Tory plan, as Andrew Mitchell, Dominic Grieve and Damian Green warn against watering down human rights

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... s-Act.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Be interesting if one of them does – or if Cameron pushes it back a long way from his 'first 100 days' plans. It really is a rather daft idea. Cameron might be planning to wave flags along with smoke and mirrors and simply rebrand the HRA so that future generation might (if they're bothered) talk of Cameron's British Bill of RIghts but that'd be a daft waste of Parliamentary time and money. If he's really planning substantial change then that's daft, too; and putting bloody Gove in charge of Justice is dafter than daft.

Did anyone else notice the YouGov/ElectoralCalculus poll in the right hand panel of that Telegraph page? It's headed 'Election 2015' but shows Labour with a majority of 40 on 345 seats, Cons on 256, LibDems on 19, UKIP with no seats at all (poor lambs,) and 'others' on 30. There's no link included and no sign of a recent poll on either YouGov's or Electoral Calculus' own sites. Odd, but if it is due to recent polling since the elections it strikes me as rather unusual to see such an immediate turnaround in support.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sun 24 May, 2015 12:53 am

AngryAsWell wrote:Cameron downgrades minister for disabled people

http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/ca ... ed-people/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well let's face it – he downgraded disabled people a long time ago

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 24 May, 2015 12:55 am

LadyCentauria wrote:and putting bloody Gove in charge of Justice is dafter than daft.

Can you imagine him as Chief Whip with a majority of 10 or whatever it is?

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sun 24 May, 2015 1:10 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: 800 ish. Was very reduced from previous election. Lib Dem's probably goners if there's another election there.
Another SNP then ?
Yup. And then there were 57.

If he were to lose Orkney & Shetland it'd be one for the record books. In the past 178 years they've only once voted for a party which didn't have 'Liberal' in its title and that was for the Scottish Unionist MP Basil Neven-Spence. If they do go to the SNP, at least it'll make a pattern of 'either Liberal or Scottish in the name'; although the Scottish Unionist Party were what it now the Scottish Conservative Party and sat on the Conservative benches.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sun 24 May, 2015 1:14 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:and putting bloody Gove in charge of Justice is dafter than daft.

Can you imagine him as Chief Whip with a majority of 10 or whatever it is?

I'll concede that point to you, Roger

Mind you, I have great difficulty imagining him in any greater position of authority than deputy blackboard-monitor or second-assistant milk-monitor.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sun 24 May, 2015 1:26 am

seeingclearly wrote:Never heard of young Tulip Siddiq till today. Just come away from a Labour page featuring here and BTL was a hate feet in every direction. Is it the right thing to indulge all the hating? I get torn between free speech and its bastard children tbh, and not meaning any offence whatsoever to the great institution of absence of wedlock, but using it purely as a metaphorical descriptor of how something good does not always bring the intended results, ie more tolerance. In fact the haters were coming at her from two directions, so am not now surprised she's been targeted unfairly, as in so bodies earlier post.

Oh dear, have probably offended someone or another by trying to be fair mined while still being outraged! Which I am. This young woman has barely had a chance yet.

In other news I see the people of Peckham were not in a mood to take random immigration checks lightly.

No, you've certainly not offended. That lass doesn't deserve what's been thrown at her today. And there's much too much hating going on, which I find very upsetting. I haven't seen any reports about random immigration checks in Peckham getting public objections - will go and look.

I've just seen that John Prescott is backing Andy Burnham and has criticised Ed M for standing down prematurely.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sun 24 May, 2015 2:35 am

LadyCentauria wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Cameron downgrades minister for disabled people

http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/ca ... ed-people/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Well let's face it – he downgraded disabled people a long time ago

There's been a series of wholly inadequate ministers for disability, who have been anything but. My guess is the new targets have upset IDSs accounting fables, and he's averse to people getting to close, and he's bargained his way out by agreeing to the targets on condition this man is moved further away. Having watched him and his accomplices facing the PAC, and slithering out of giving any proper account at all, I'm not surprised he's hanging on so hard. All that suffering for no gain at all.

Post by **refitman** » Sun 24 May, 2015 2:54 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Looks like Carmichael is toast from the latest stories and news that a parliamentary standards complaint has been lodged.

The worst of all worlds for the Lib Dems - the party that proclaimed they wanted to bring back decency and trust into politics ... probably down to 7 MPs by the end of this bank holiday weekend.

My "New politics" comment didn't make it past the mods on LDV.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sun 24 May, 2015 2:57 am

LadyCentauria wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:Never heard of young Tulip Siddiq till today. Just come away from a Labour page featuring here and BTL was a hate feet in every direction. Is it the right thing to indulge all the hating? I get torn between free speech and its bastard children tbh, and not meaning any offence whatsoever to the great institution of absence of wedlock, but using it purely as a metaphorical descriptor of how something good does not always bring the intended results, ie more tolerance. In fact the haters were coming at her from two directions, so am not now surprised she's been targeted unfairly, as in so bodies earlier post.

Oh dear, have probably offended someone or another by trying to be fair mined while still being outraged! Which I am. This young woman has barely had a chance yet.

In other news I see the people of Peckham were not in a mood to take random immigration checks lightly.
No, you've certainly not offended. That lass doesn't deserve what's been thrown at her today. And there's much too much hating going on, which I find very upsetting. I haven't seen any reports about random immigration checks in Peckham getting public objections - will go and look.

I've just seen that John Prescott is backing Andy Burnham and has criticised Ed M for standing down prematurely.

Apparently there's a Labour poll out there in the ether that's asking about which leadership candidate people would prefer. There an 'other' box in which Ed is doing well. If I saw that here my apologies. But too late sadly, the full weight of the massed machine was against him, and my guess is there's a lot he never said. No wonder he looked so relieved. I wasn't surprised Umunna stood down. If someone as apparently clean as Ed could come under such pressure what chance for anyone to move leftward. So what we'll get is further right than we wished, they're all on a bandwagon to criticise, but as far as my memory serves me the only person who ever came close in terms of the pasting Ed took was Gordon Brown. Also of a hugely personal nature. And a continuum. John Prescott can say what he wants, the game has changed really, and is a lot nastier these days. I often have to shake myself to realise just how far we've come in five years.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sun 24 May, 2015 8:18 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Evening all.

What with IDS apparently fighting the £12bn cuts and the unnamed cabinet minister rebelling against the abolition of the HRA...why do I get the feeling that a few people didn't expect to win?

To be fair to IDS, Roger, hard I know, but it's not the first time this has been said, which is why I hold Cameron and Osborne more culpable for Social Security cuts even if IDS appears to delight in them, Osborne for his demands and Cameron primarily for his sense of entitlement regardless of personal finance, especially given how little regard he apparently has for others.

From Jan 2014, Cabinet split over George Osborne's plan for £12bn more welfare cuts: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... lfare-cuts

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sun 24 May, 2015 8:24 am

LadyCentauria wrote:... Mind you, I have great difficulty imagining him in any greater position of authority than deputy blackboard-monitor or second-assistant milk-monitor.

No, Lady C, there shall be tears before bedtime if he were allowed anywhere near milk.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 24 May, 2015 8:54 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Evening all.

What with IDS apparently fighting the £12bn cuts and the unnamed cabinet minister rebelling against the abolition of the HRA...why do I get the feeling that a few people didn't expect to win?

I think you're right on that feeling. Cameron is now going to have to go through with the things he thought the Lib Dems wouldn't allow in a month of Sundays.

The report on IDS fighting the cuts had me confused though. It says he is fighting it - then he says he isn't and it can be done - he seems to object to salami slicing for the 12bn in case it interferes with his wonderful reforms. He'd probably rather just do away with a whole category of need.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 24 May, 2015 9:01 am

Craig Woodhouse ‏@craigawoodhouse 2h2 hours ago
EXCL: Labour MPs urge David Miliband to return for EU referendum - and stay for 2020 http://sunpl.us/6011CUXz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank goodness that's in the Sun and I can't read it.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 24 May, 2015 9:20 am

Take action against Tories’ harmful policies by hitting them in the wallet
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/05/2 ... he-wallet/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
... May 27 will be the first National Switch Off Day, when thousands of people have already pledged to stop using gas and electricity, and stop shopping in non-local shops for 24 hours.

Organised by a varied group of campaigners, this will be the first in a series of multi-issue actions that will take place once a month. Reasons for taking part range from keeping the NHS public and tackling issues like overpriced parking in hospitals, to stopping benefit cuts, to issues affecting vulnerable people and their carers such as the cold weather benefits to the elderly, to keeping the Human Rights Act, to stopping fracking – and mostly that all members of the general public get a voice in matters that concern them.

Paul, a single parent with two sons, said: “Traditional protesting on the streets is fine but it doesn’t affect the government, banks or big corporations. It’s time to switch off and hurt them in the pocket. No electric. No gas. No spending money. Whatever your protest, let’s unite for one day a month and switch off.”

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 24 May, 2015 9:24 am

Eurovision, BBC and Labour. All disappointing, and all missing the point.

Eurovision - think it's not important? Look at the votes for the UK over recent years. Europe feels the same way about us (and our much discussed Brexit and forthcoming referendum) as many of us have felt about the Scots separation. Doesn't matter that most of us don't want to leave, all Europe hears is that we do. It's going to take a long time to repair, even if we vote to stay in. And yet the papers talk about the song - talk about missing the point.

(Eurovision per se has also made itself totally irrelevant. No theatrics, and very little humour. Just lots of identical partially clad women and some men who seem incapable of pulling an unplanned facial expression. It's gone from crap to camp to crass.)

BBC - this is a public broadcaster paid for by our licence fees (though it brings in much more money than it costs and has brought global influence and credibility to the UK via the World Service). We need to make sure we keep it by reclaiming it not as a political mouthpiece but as ours. Politics needs to keep out of it - I don't know how that happens, but it needs to.

Labour - we simply don't need another rightish wing party. If the Unions decide to form a party for actual people (workers or otherwise) I will be resigning from Labour (again) to join it. It really is as simple as that. I am not being angry or negative when I say the current Labour leadership candidates should join the Tories and pull them to the left. It is what I honestly think is likely to have the most beneficial effect on society. A less right wing Tory party and a more left wing Labour party is surely more likely to solve the problems we discuss here than the current Tories and more right wing Labour?

We really need to stop doing the Tories' work from them vis a vis both wishing an end to the BBC and dragging Labour back to the right.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 24 May, 2015 9:26 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Craig Woodhouse ‏@craigawoodhouse 2h2 hours ago
EXCL: Labour MPs urge David Miliband to return for EU referendum - and stay for 2020 http://sunpl.us/6011CUXz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thank goodness that's in the Sun and I can't read it.

So having lost with one who was dubbed part of the 'metropolitan liberal elite' they want us to elect someone who is another of the 'metropolitan liberal elite'.

Yeah, that makes sense...

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sun 24 May, 2015 9:31 am

We've made changes to non-EU immigration and have seen that fall.

Sajid Javid on Andrew Marr Show. I'm pretty certain that was not the case according to recently published figures, almost sure in fact. There was Steve Hilton earlier also perpetuating the myth about sovereignty being elsewhere with regard to the HRA. Unchallenged by Marr of course, although the woman (sorry don't know her name) sharing the couch with Steve did so.

Edit: I stand corrected regarding non-EU immigration, which having gone down has risen to nearly the same as 2010 levels.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 24 May, 2015 9:31 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: 800 ish. Was very reduced from previous election. Lib Dem's probably goners if there's another election there.
Another SNP then ?
Yup. And then there were 57.

57 varieties - but they're all the bleeding same! Without in any way being hyperbolic, the SNP is one of the most genuinely Stalinist parties in any developed democracy

Still - if that's what most Scottish people currently want, who are we "red Tories" to argue??

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 24 May, 2015 9:46 am

utopiandreams wrote:
We've made changes to non-EU immigration and have seen that fall.
Sajid Javid on Andrew Marr Show. I'm pretty certain that was not the case according to recently published figures, almost sure in fact. There was Steve Hilton earlier also perpetuating the myth about sovereignty being elsewhere with regard to the HRA. Unchallenged by Marr of course, although the woman (sorry don't know her name) sharing the couch with Steve did so.

It's gone from 311k in year to June 2010 to 290k in year to Dec 2014.

The line used to be that they'd "cut it by a third" but then...whoops...started to go back up again.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 24 May, 2015 9:49 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:Eurovision, BBC and Labour. All disappointing, and all missing the point.

Eurovision - think it's not important? Look at the votes for the UK over recent years. Europe feels the same way about us (and our much discussed Brexit and forthcoming referendum) as many of us have felt about the Scots separation. Doesn't matter that most of us don't want to leave, all Europe hears is that we do. It's going to take a long time to repair, even if we vote to stay in. And yet the papers talk about the song - talk about missing the point.

(Eurovision per se has also made itself totally irrelevant. No theatrics, and very little humour. Just lots of identical partially clad women and some men who seem incapable of pulling an unplanned facial expression. It's gone from crap to camp to crass.)

BBC - this is a public broadcaster paid for by our licence fees (though it brings in much more money than it costs and has brought global influence and credibility to the UK via the World Service). We need to make sure we keep it by reclaiming it not as a political mouthpiece but as ours. Politics needs to keep out of it - I don't know how that happens, but it needs to.

Labour - we simply don't need another rightish wing party. If the Unions decide to form a party for actual people (workers or otherwise) I will be resigning from Labour (again) to join it. It really is as simple as that. I am not being angry or negative when I say the current Labour leadership candidates should join the Tories and pull them to the left. It is what I honestly think is likely to have the most beneficial effect on society. A less right wing Tory party and a more left wing Labour party is surely more likely to solve the problems we discuss here than the current Tories and more right wing Labour?

We really need to stop doing the Tories' work from them vis a vis both wishing an end to the BBC and dragging Labour back to the right.

Understand your frustration TC. Very hard to know what is the best, most constructive, course of action. A bit more time will help to settle the dust might make things clearer to help us individuals make decisions. If the unions start another party we're going to have even more of a fragmented vote for any left of centre views - we've got the new Womens Party of Equality (not sure if I've got that name correct) being set up too.

We also have to remember - and I keep reminding myself of this - that all parties will have problems and toing and froing as they develop. Yes Labour have a large disconnect between the Westminster inner circle and those out there in the further flung and non metropolitan constituencies which must be tackled. We are trying to do our bit about that at a local level here. As other parties grow and develop they will experience power shifts and disconnects too - the Greens experienced a bit of that during the election campaign with their badly conceived fundraiser event which they thankfully pulled back from.

I'm hoping some real levers for change will emerge - to counter the leaden feeling that nothing can shift with the Tories in office for another 5 years and it could be even harder to do anything once they have done all they wish to do to suppress the public even further.