Friday, 29th May 2015

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 29 May, 2015 7:47 am

Good morfternoon.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 29 May, 2015 7:53 am

France warns of 'dangerous' David Cameron stance on EU (Guardian)

"Dangerous David of the Corrugated Trousers". The trousers don't actually get a mention in the article, but they haven't passed unnoticed (by me, anyway).

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ance-on-eu

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 29 May, 2015 7:55 am

Hola!

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 29 May, 2015 8:14 am

Morning each.
re BBC's hunger games stunt:
https://www.change.org/p/the-bbc-stop-t ... style-show

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 29 May, 2015 8:20 am

Burnham sinks a notch or two for me:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... h-creators
Business leader =/= wealth creator.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 29 May, 2015 8:28 am

Morning all.

Scotty National ‏@ScottyNational 52m52 minutes ago
FIFA: SNP unveil plans to halt Blatter's re-election - they will rush to Switzerland and sit in his seat whilst wearing a big flower

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 29 May, 2015 8:29 am

Morning.

Heard a report about an 'aggressive' tax avoidance scam on Radio 4, the BBC have uncovered it.

What makes it particularly repugnant is that is exploits Osborne's policy, supposedly to help job creation, of allowing employers to claim £2,000 off their NI bill for employees.
It is alleged that a series of shell companies are used so no NI is paid.

One wonders why the brains in the Treasury can't predict scams when a new policy is implemented and get HMRC to look out for them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-32914372" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 29 May, 2015 8:36 am

frightful_oik wrote:Burnham sinks a notch or two for me:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... h-creators
Business leader =/= wealth creator.

Thanks for the link. From it, this:

The shadow health secretary, who is the favourite for the leadership, over Yvette Cooper and Liz Kendall, will promise an audience of business leaders on Friday that he would improve Labour’s reputation on the economy and ensure it values the contribution to society made by those who run companies.

All the candidates have now talked of the need to champion wealth creators in a significant change in tone from Ed Miliband’s rhetoric about standing up to corporate vested interests.

Why can't, or won't, they express, in a coherent fashion, that the two aren't mutually exclusive? Do we really have to go back to kissing the hem of big business? If we value people like good nurses and good doctors because they "serve us" then the same should apply to business. We don't, after all, "celebrate" the likes of Harold Shipman.

Edited to add a comma

Edited, again, to tidy up the bit in quote box

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 29 May, 2015 8:48 am

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 29 May, 2015 8:55 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:
,

Too early for me TC.

And way before the comma watershed which I believe is 12pm but PF is the acknowledged authority on this.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 29 May, 2015 9:00 am

We spent a lovely evening with friends last night.

As usual talk eventually turned to politics and there was much consensus between us, a Lib Dem, a Green voter [because he thinks climate change is the most serious issue facing us, he's not a fan of Bennett, or their current incarnation], us two Labour peeps and a new neighbour.

The new neighbour is a lovely woman in her fifties, just moved to rural Wales.
She's exploring personal issues around alternative spirituality, has three lovely old rescue dogs and has cared for over forty dogs over the years, has done volunteer work in India with Tibetan refugees and seems genuinely open to other ethnic groups and people....yet she said she voted Tory !
She said she voted Tory, not because she likes Cameron but for 'stability' and because Ed was a 'wuss' who could not lead the country. If people like her are falling for media spin, what hope is there ?

Also, we talked about the media's attacks on Ed, and whether there was any anti-Jewish sentiment behind it.

The Green voter is a lawyer and told us he used to work with a Welsh Tory, now ex-MP and ex MEP. I won't name him.
He went away for a Tory training weekend for candidates and told my friend that one of the things he was told to do during the training was to emphasise the foreign sound of certain Labour politicians names if talking about them. The name used in illustration at the time was Gerald Kauffman, they were told to harden the pronounciation of the syllables. He wasn't impressed apparently, as he was on the liberal/libertarian wing of the party.

Ok, that was some years ago, but one wonders just how much of it still goes on ?

WelshIan · Post by **WelshIan** » Fri 29 May, 2015 9:49 am

yahyah wrote: She said she voted Tory, not because she likes Cameron but for 'stability' and because Ed was a 'wuss' who could not lead the country. If people like her are falling for media spin, what hope is there ?

Had a similar conversation this morning (didn't ask my work colleague who she voted for, though). 5 years of media portrayal of Ed as weak was very effective and couldn't be countered in the campaign, especially with Nicola Sturgeon banging on about dragging Labour to the left, etc.

Actually, have had a lot of similar conversations over the past few weeks.

The Mirror and the Guardian both backed Labour, so they obviously want a change from how the country is run now, they need to look at making sure they hold the government to account so that some of the media, at least, is reporting the truth. I've given up on the BBC reporting politics in an unbiased way.

It is all very well us as individuals saying that what people read and see on the news is wrong, and trying to get a different message out there. I may be the only person that some family, friends and colleagues talk about politics with, how can I counter the all pervading single message in most of the papers and on the news?
It's easier to say I'm wrong or mistaken rather than all of the papers, and that is how the big lie gets believed. I'm known as a lefty so it is also easy to think 'Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?'.

On a lighter note, I'm wearing a lot more red than normal. One of my favourite ties is blue and I haven't quite been able to put it on yet.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 29 May, 2015 9:55 am

WelshIan wrote:
yahyah wrote: She said she voted Tory, not because she likes Cameron but for 'stability' and because Ed was a 'wuss' who could not lead the country. If people like her are falling for media spin, what hope is there ?
Had a similar conversation this morning (didn't ask my work colleague who she voted for, though). 5 years of media portrayal of Ed as weak was very effective and couldn't be countered in the campaign, especially with Nicola Sturgeon banging on about dragging Labour to the left, etc.
Actually, have had a lot of similar conversations over the past few weeks.

The Mirror and the Guardian both backed Labour, so they obviously want a change from how the country is run now, they need to look at making sure they hold the government to account so that some of the media, at least, is reporting the truth. I've given up on the BBC reporting politics in an unbiased way.

It is all very well us as individuals saying that what people read and see on the news is wrong, and trying to get a different message out there. I may be the only person that some family, friends and colleagues talk about politics with, how can I counter the all pervading single message in most of the papers and on the news?
It's easier to say I'm wrong or mistaken rather than all of the papers, and that is how the big lie gets believed. I'm known as a lefty so it is also easy to think 'Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?'.

On a lighter note, I'm wearing a lot more red than normal. One of my favourite ties is blue and I haven't quite been able to put it on yet.

I have a problem with wearing anything red for football reasons. I won't even buy a red car. Such silliness!

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 29 May, 2015 10:01 am

frightful_oik wrote:Burnham sinks a notch or two for me:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... h-creators
Business leader =/= wealth creator.

Burnham is saying all the predictable things that Labour seem to think need to be said right now, and equating business with wealth creation rather than those who actually do the frigging work is one of the most annoying ones, I agree, however....I'm slightly more inclined to think with Burnham it's more superficial and that he really understands that it's not Tory voters Labour has to woo but those it lost to Ukip and wavering Libdems. This bit from the article is a little more encouraging at any rate:

Burnham will say: “Politicians make a terrible mistake when they try to compartmentalise the voters and speak only to the hope and dreams of some in certain parts of the country. Aspiration is not the preserve of those who shop at John Lewis. Aspiration is universal; it is felt by Asda and Aldi shoppers, too.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 May, 2015 10:07 am

FIRST Great Western were forced to apologise after a "cruel and tasteless" announcement told passengers that train delays were imminent because "some body couldn't be bothered to live any more." - See more at: http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/ ... cvlq2.dpuf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/ ... ouncement/

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 29 May, 2015 10:14 am

I just noticed yesterday that there was a political discussion before the election on a facebook group I belong to, one person who lives in the midlands was clearly put off Labour by the 'scary SNP' story. It was interesting to me because I couldn't/can't understand that line at all. Maybe because I live in the northeast and visit Scotland regularly?
What were we supposed to be frightened of?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 May, 2015 10:24 am

Now SNP claims Scotland should be able to veto EU result – with just 8 per cent of votes

SCOTLAND should have ultimate power over the result of an EU referendum – despite having just eight per cent of the vote, an SNP politician has claimed.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... n-politics

Oh well. I don't suppose anyone can say the SNP is a dull party.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 29 May, 2015 10:27 am

gilsey wrote:I just noticed yesterday that there was a political discussion before the election on a facebook group I belong to, one person who lives in the midlands was clearly put off Labour by the 'scary SNP' story. It was interesting to me because I couldn't/can't understand that line at all. Maybe because I live in the northeast and visit Scotland regularly?
What were we supposed to be frightened of?

It's just English nationalism. Why are the Scots getting more than we do? Speaking as a Midlander who doesn't hold this view.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 29 May, 2015 10:28 am

ohsocynical wrote:
Now SNP claims Scotland should be able to veto EU result – with just 8 per cent of votes

SCOTLAND should have ultimate power over the result of an EU referendum – despite having just eight per cent of the vote, an SNP politician has claimed.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... n-politics
Oh well. I don't suppose anyone can say the SNP is a dull party.

That's democracy in SNP world.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 May, 2015 10:30 am

'You just can't ask people to behave ethically just like that': Sepp Blatter comes out fighting as Fifa's future hangs in the balance.

I would call that the quote of the century. Encapsulates what's gone wrong with society to a T.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 29 May, 2015 10:41 am

Willow904 wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:Burnham sinks a notch or two for me:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... h-creators
Business leader =/= wealth creator.
Burnham is saying all the predictable things that Labour seem to think need to be said right now, and equating business with wealth creation rather than those who actually do the frigging work is one of the most annoying ones, I agree, however....I'm slightly more inclined to think with Burnham it's more superficial and that he really understands that it's not Tory voters Labour has to woo but those it lost to Ukip and wavering Libdems. This bit from the article is a little more encouraging at any rate:

Burnham will say: “Politicians make a terrible mistake when they try to compartmentalise the voters and speak only to the hope and dreams of some in certain parts of the country. Aspiration is not the preserve of those who shop at John Lewis. Aspiration is universal; it is felt by Asda and Aldi shoppers, too.

Also, this is Guardian spin on what he is going to say - I still don't trust its political journalism.

When is the new editor actually taking charge?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 29 May, 2015 10:42 am

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... -democracy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 26th president of the United States, Theodore Roosevelt, saw the merging of big firms such as the railroads and the oil companies, and the consolidation of wealth into fewer hands that resulted from it, as a grave threat. He wrote, “. . . we had come to the stage where for our people what was needed was a real democracy; and of all forms of tyranny the least attractive and the most vulgar is the tyranny of mere wealth, the tyranny of a plutocracy.”

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 29 May, 2015 10:43 am

er ... Willow .... (see above)

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 29 May, 2015 10:44 am

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Fri 29 May, 2015 10:44 am

yahyah wrote:We spent a lovely evening with friends last night.

As usual talk eventually turned to politics and there was much consensus between us, a Lib Dem, a Green voter [because he thinks climate change is the most serious issue facing us, he's not a fan of Bennett, or their current incarnation], us two Labour peeps and a new neighbour.

The new neighbour is a lovely woman in her fifties, just moved to rural Wales.
She's exploring personal issues around alternative spirituality, has three lovely old rescue dogs and has cared for over forty dogs over the years, has done volunteer work in India with Tibetan refugees and seems genuinely open to other ethnic groups and people....yet she said she voted Tory !
She said she voted Tory, not because she likes Cameron but for 'stability' and because Ed was a 'wuss' who could not lead the country. If people like her are falling for media spin, what hope is there?

Weird and worrying. You would expect someone who's interested in spirituality and so forth to also take on board the idea of equality, tolerance and the idea that we're all connected - concepts that modern Toryism appears to be divorced from.

If her parents were Tories she might well have just accepted their world view without question, and the media spin confirms that bias. Again, if she's into alternative ideas you'd think she'd be more questioning about the stuff the mass media feeds us, but evidently she just focuses her questioning on introspection.

However it also shows how Labour do need to hammer home the message that the Tories, far from being economically competent, are the exact opposite. Many people realised that after 1992 with Black Wednesday, eye-watering interest rates, the rise in bankruptcies and home repossessions. I can see it all happening again. Learning the hard way yet again ....

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Fri 29 May, 2015 11:04 am

frightful_oik wrote:Burnham sinks a notch or two for me:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... h-creators
Business leader =/= wealth creator.

Bacon Butty Miss, Bad
Business Butty Kiss, Good

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 29 May, 2015 11:04 am

nickyinnorfolk wrote:
yahyah wrote:We spent a lovely evening with friends last night.

As usual talk eventually turned to politics and there was much consensus between us, a Lib Dem, a Green voter [because he thinks climate change is the most serious issue facing us, he's not a fan of Bennett, or their current incarnation], us two Labour peeps and a new neighbour.

The new neighbour is a lovely woman in her fifties, just moved to rural Wales.
She's exploring personal issues around alternative spirituality, has three lovely old rescue dogs and has cared for over forty dogs over the years, has done volunteer work in India with Tibetan refugees and seems genuinely open to other ethnic groups and people....yet she said she voted Tory !
She said she voted Tory, not because she likes Cameron but for 'stability' and because Ed was a 'wuss' who could not lead the country. If people like her are falling for media spin, what hope is there?
Weird and worrying. You would expect someone who's interested in spirituality and so forth to also take on board the idea of equality, tolerance and the idea that we're all connected - concepts that modern Toryism appears to be divorced from.

If her parents were Tories she might well have just accepted their world view without question, and the media spin confirms that bias. Again, if she's into alternative ideas you'd think she'd be more questioning about the stuff the mass media feeds us, but evidently she just focuses her questioning on introspection.

However it also shows how Labour do need to hammer home the message that the Tories, far from being economically competent, are the exact opposite. Many people realised that after 1992 with Black Wednesday, eye-watering interest rates, the rise in bankruptcies and home repossessions. I can see it all happening again. Learning the hard way yet again ....

From personal experience, more of that type vote Tory than you might think.

Indeed, it helps explain how they remain a major political party that can win elections - if *only* hard faced sociopaths voted for them, they would be very much a minority party. Something those of us who oppose them should never forget, but all too often do.

Its about values and "narratives" much more than policy (of course, this is why those rubbishing Labour's election platform wholesale are wrong too)

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 29 May, 2015 11:11 am

It's definitely narrative. And it's going to be hard to change.
But FTN (including its currently missing contributors) can play a role collectively as well as individually.
Ohso - sorry to be a pain but can you post your list of Cameron U-turns/disingenousnesses - we can start picking the top ten of the 34 things the Tories don't want us to know ...

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 29 May, 2015 11:20 am

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/14815674-047d ... z3bW3KelTQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Tories Right to Buy social housing policy demolished in one short article. Why didn't we get any of this before the election when it was first proposed?

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Fri 29 May, 2015 11:37 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
Now SNP claims Scotland should be able to veto EU result – with just 8 per cent of votes

SCOTLAND should have ultimate power over the result of an EU referendum – despite having just eight per cent of the vote, an SNP politician has claimed.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... n-politics
Oh well. I don't suppose anyone can say the SNP is a dull party.
That's democracy in SNP world.

By the same logic, Gibraltar (pop c30,000) would have a similar right of veto.
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=35955

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Fri 29 May, 2015 11:39 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
nickyinnorfolk wrote:
yahyah wrote:We spent a lovely evening with friends last night.

As usual talk eventually turned to politics and there was much consensus between us, a Lib Dem, a Green voter [because he thinks climate change is the most serious issue facing us, he's not a fan of Bennett, or their current incarnation], us two Labour peeps and a new neighbour.

The new neighbour is a lovely woman in her fifties, just moved to rural Wales.
She's exploring personal issues around alternative spirituality, has three lovely old rescue dogs and has cared for over forty dogs over the years, has done volunteer work in India with Tibetan refugees and seems genuinely open to other ethnic groups and people....yet she said she voted Tory !
She said she voted Tory, not because she likes Cameron but for 'stability' and because Ed was a 'wuss' who could not lead the country. If people like her are falling for media spin, what hope is there?
Weird and worrying. You would expect someone who's interested in spirituality and so forth to also take on board the idea of equality, tolerance and the idea that we're all connected - concepts that modern Toryism appears to be divorced from.

If her parents were Tories she might well have just accepted their world view without question, and the media spin confirms that bias. Again, if she's into alternative ideas you'd think she'd be more questioning about the stuff the mass media feeds us, but evidently she just focuses her questioning on introspection.

However it also shows how Labour do need to hammer home the message that the Tories, far from being economically competent, are the exact opposite. Many people realised that after 1992 with Black Wednesday, eye-watering interest rates, the rise in bankruptcies and home repossessions. I can see it all happening again. Learning the hard way yet again ....
From personal experience, more of that type vote Tory than you might think.

Indeed, it helps explain how they remain a major political party that can win elections - if *only* hard faced sociopaths voted for them, they would be very much a minority party. Something those of us who oppose them should never forget, but all too often do.

Its about values and "narratives" much more than policy (of course, this is why those rubbishing Labour's election platform wholesale are wrong too)

Many people vote Tory in the mistaken belief that although they're bastards, they're competent, and that anything worthwhile is pretty grim in the short term - like studying hard for exams or going on a diet. However, the actual fact is that Tory governments are bad news for everyone except the extremely wealthy. People are willing to be masochists if they're conned into thinking there's some worthy goal in sight - one symptom is the peculiar popularity of those 'Keep Calm and Carry On' posters, which were actually rejected when they were originally out during WW2 as being too patronising.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 29 May, 2015 12:11 pm

nickyinnorfolk wrote:
Many people vote Tory in the mistaken belief that although they're bastards, they're competent, and that anything worthwhile is pretty grim in the short term - like studying hard for exams or going on a diet. However, the actual fact is that Tory governments are bad news for everyone except the extremely wealthy. People are willing to be masochists if they're conned into thinking there's some worthy goal in sight - one symptom is the peculiar popularity of those 'Keep Calm and Carry On' posters, which were actually rejected when they were originally out during WW2 as being too patronising.

In which case the big myth to bust in 34 things the Tories don't want us to know is their profound incompetence. People might not believe the willfulness angle, but with enough pushing it (and a simple, entertaining and moan-worthy enough narrative) it could make s start.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 May, 2015 12:12 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:It's definitely narrative. And it's going to be hard to change.
But FTN (including its currently missing contributors) can play a role collectively as well as individually.
Ohso - sorry to be a pain but can you post your list of Cameron U-turns/disingenousnesses - we can start picking the top ten of the 34 things the Tories don't want us to know ...

Having a hunt for the list. Lost all the ones from my computer. This is what Labour did...
Might as well start on the positive. Mr Ohso's whinging about batteries. He couldn't find his nose if it moved two inches to the right. I'll be back asap.

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.
2. Low mortgage rates.
3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52 per hour.
4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.
5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.
6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.
7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.
8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.
9. Employment is at its highest level ever.
10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.
11. 85,000 more nurses.
12. 32,000 more doctors.
13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.
14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.
15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.
16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.
17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.
18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.
19. Restored city-wide government to London.
20. Record number of students in higher education.
21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.
22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.
23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.
25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.
27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.
28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.
29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.
30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.
31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.
32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.
33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.
34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997: the shortest waiting times since NHS records began.
35. Banned fox hunting.
36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.
37. Free TV licences for over-75s.
38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.
39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.
40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.
41. New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work.
42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.
43. Free eye test for over 60s.
44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.
45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.
46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.
47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.
48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.
49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.
50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school. (1-50 taken from the Telegraph)
51. Gender Recognition Act 2004/5
52. Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland.
53. Walk-in Health Centres and GP out of hours Service.
54. Digital hearing aids, through the NHS.
55. Children’s Act 2004, 2008 – Every Child Matters.
56. Introduced Smoke–Free legislation, 2007 – child health improving continually since.
57. Retail Distribution Review – ending commission for financial advisers
58. Introduced legislation to make company ‘blacklisting’ unlawful.
59. The Equality Act.
60. Established the Disability Rights Commission in 1999.
61. The Human Rights Act.
62 Signed the European Social Chapter, introduced measures including: four weeks’ paid holiday; a right to parental leave; extended maternity leave; a new right to request flexible working; and the same protection for part-time workers as full time workers.
63. Launched £1.5 billion Housing Pledge of new affordable housing, largest program of council house building for twenty years.
64. The Autism Act 2009, which is the first ever disability-specific law in England.

From http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -low-wages" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With thanks to AngryAsWell.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 May, 2015 12:13 pm

Quickly add, could we could work on what the Tories have destroyed off the above list?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 May, 2015 12:24 pm

This is a link to the old FTN. There are a lot of Labour speeches from 2013 on there...What a long time ago that seems to be!!!!

http://flythenest.freeforums.org/labour ... -t429.html

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 May, 2015 12:27 pm

COALITION AGREEMENT FOR STABILITY AND REFORM
May 2010
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 010_0.pdf
The Coalition: our programme for government
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... rnment.pdf

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 May, 2015 12:29 pm

http://flythenest.freeforums.org/minist ... -t747.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 May, 2015 12:33 pm

"In most of the serious crimes, such as child abduction, comms data – who called who when and where was the phone at the time, not the content of the call – the comms data is absolutely vital."

He continued: "I love watching crime drama on the television, as I should probably stop telling people. There is hardly a crime drama that is not solved without using the data of a mobile communications device. If we don't modernise the practice and the law over time we will have the communications data to solve these horrible crimes on a shrinking proportion of the total use of the devices.

"That is a real problem for keeping people safe. At the start of the next parliament, we have got to build a cross-party case for legislation to deal with this."
_______________________________

Cameron bases civil liberties and law enforcement rules on what he has seen on TV.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ation-laws

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 29 May, 2015 12:48 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
"In most of the serious crimes, such as child abduction, comms data – who called who when and where was the phone at the time, not the content of the call – the comms data is absolutely vital."

He continued: "I love watching crime drama on the television, as I should probably stop telling people. There is hardly a crime drama that is not solved without using the data of a mobile communications device. If we don't modernise the practice and the law over time we will have the communications data to solve these horrible crimes on a shrinking proportion of the total use of the devices.

"That is a real problem for keeping people safe. At the start of the next parliament, we have got to build a cross-party case for legislation to deal with this."
_______________________________

Cameron bases civil liberties and law enforcement rules on what he has seen on TV.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ation-laws

This isn't the first time he's cited, "What I saw in a (usually American)TV fictional drama," as a basis for policy. Memory, of course, fails me right at the moment.

Still, it's a good thing I'm not PM. I'm quite into "Campion" and Golden Age stuff like that. In fact, about as up-to-the-minute as I get in the crime fiction department is Colin Watson (he always seemed such a humane man) and his Flaxborough stuff which just about limps into the 70s. So I'd be quite useless. Oh, hang on. That's not a disqualifier, is it?

WelshIan · Post by **WelshIan** » Fri 29 May, 2015 12:53 pm

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/05/2 ... ed-deaths/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Department for Work and Pensions has appealed against the ruling compelling it to disclose the number of Incapacity Benefit and ESA claimants who have died between November 2011 and May 2014.

WelshIan · Post by **WelshIan** » Fri 29 May, 2015 1:04 pm

PorFavor wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
"In most of the serious crimes, such as child abduction, comms data – who called who when and where was the phone at the time, not the content of the call – the comms data is absolutely vital."

He continued: "I love watching crime drama on the television, as I should probably stop telling people. There is hardly a crime drama that is not solved without using the data of a mobile communications device. If we don't modernise the practice and the law over time we will have the communications data to solve these horrible crimes on a shrinking proportion of the total use of the devices.

"That is a real problem for keeping people safe. At the start of the next parliament, we have got to build a cross-party case for legislation to deal with this."
_______________________________

Cameron bases civil liberties and law enforcement rules on what he has seen on TV.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ation-laws

This isn't the first time he's cited, "What I saw in a (usually American)TV fictional drama," as a basis for policy. Memory, of course, fails me right at the moment.

Still, it's a good thing I'm not PM. I'm quite into "Campion" and Golden Age stuff like that. In fact, about as up-to-the-minute as I get in the crime fiction department is Colin Watson (he always seemed such a humane man) and his Flaxborough stuff which just about limps into the 70s. So I'd be quite useless. Oh, hang on. That's not a disqualifier, is it?

The article is from Jan 2014 so it might be the same citation.

I have a different takeaway from US crime drama - a common story is the person encouraged into crime to pay for a family member's medical treatment. The worst part of it is, that it is just presented as a story not social comment or a call to change the system.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 29 May, 2015 1:15 pm

WelshIan wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:

This isn't the first time he's cited, "What I saw in a (usually American)TV fictional drama," as a basis for policy. Memory, of course, fails me right at the moment.

Still, it's a good thing I'm not PM. I'm quite into "Campion" and Golden Age stuff like that. In fact, about as up-to-the-minute as I get in the crime fiction department is Colin Watson (he always seemed such a humane man) and his Flaxborough stuff which just about limps into the 70s. So I'd be quite useless. Oh, hang on. That's not a disqualifier, is it?
The article is from Jan 2014 so it might be the same citation.

I have a different takeaway from US crime drama - a common story is the person encouraged into crime to pay for a family member's medical treatment. The worst part of it is, that it is just presented as a story not social comment or a call to change the system.

Of course, it would be tremendously helpful if our wonderful free press weren't busy hacking the phones of abducted children too.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Fri 29 May, 2015 1:43 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
"In most of the serious crimes, such as child abduction, comms data – who called who when and where was the phone at the time, not the content of the call – the comms data is absolutely vital."

He continued: "I love watching crime drama on the television, as I should probably stop telling people. There is hardly a crime drama that is not solved without using the data of a mobile communications device. If we don't modernise the practice and the law over time we will have the communications data to solve these horrible crimes on a shrinking proportion of the total use of the devices.

"That is a real problem for keeping people safe. At the start of the next parliament, we have got to build a cross-party case for legislation to deal with this."
_______________________________

Cameron bases civil liberties and law enforcement rules on what he has seen on TV.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ation-laws

He admits to being a big fan of "Game of Thrones",
haven't ever seen it, but from reading reviews find this disturbing.

Mind you he's also claimed to be a Smiths fan,
whilst supporting hunting,
& his favourite album was supposedly"The Queen is dead".

I think he just talks drivel.
& gets away with it.

thatchersorphan · Post by **thatchersorphan** » Fri 29 May, 2015 1:47 pm

WelshIan wrote:

It is all very well us as individuals saying that what people read and see on the news is wrong, and trying to get a different message out there. I may be the only person that some family, friends and colleagues talk about politics with, how can I counter the all pervading single message in most of the papers and on the news?
It's easier to say I'm wrong or mistaken rather than all of the papers, and that is how the big lie gets believed. I'm known as a lefty so it is also easy to think 'Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?'.

The more individuals doing it, the more chance we have of something getting through. The media lie, spin, skew and omit - we also have to tell them STOP believing the media.
The one tory voter I know (one of the taxi drivers) is actually left of labour on some issues, including unemployed and disabled (though supports high exec pay and fracking), but his source of info on the tories - is the media.
He insists the disabled are protected because Rees-Mogg said so on a radio show.... Hopefully I chipped away a bit, but its an ongoing process. He also opposes Labour and Libs because of the waste by councils, eg spending money on a new bus lane instead of helping the homeless - a tory council would probably have different priorities to his, but hes never had a tory council (they can't win here).

Post by **refitman** » Fri 29 May, 2015 1:47 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
"In most of the serious crimes, such as child abduction, comms data – who called who when and where was the phone at the time, not the content of the call – the comms data is absolutely vital."

He continued: "I love watching crime drama on the television, as I should probably stop telling people. There is hardly a crime drama that is not solved without using the data of a mobile communications device. If we don't modernise the practice and the law over time we will have the communications data to solve these horrible crimes on a shrinking proportion of the total use of the devices.

"That is a real problem for keeping people safe. At the start of the next parliament, we have got to build a cross-party case for legislation to deal with this."
_______________________________

Cameron bases civil liberties and law enforcement rules on what he has seen on TV.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ation-laws
He admits to being a big fan of "Game of Thrones",
haven't ever seen it, but from reading reviews find this disturbing.

Mind you he's also claimed to be a Smiths fan,
whilst supporting hunting,
& his favourite album was supposedly"The Queen is dead".

I think he just talks drivel.
& gets away with it.

Also a fan of 'Eton Rifles' by The Jam.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 29 May, 2015 1:54 pm

Despite the frustrations over what the German government sees as Cameron’s overly confident approach – and the distinct impression that he’s “spoiling for a fight” as an opinion piece in Die Welt put it, in a country more used to consensus than confrontation – there are few in Berlin who want to see Britain leave. The prime minister was greeted by a full military guard of honour outside Berlin’s chancellery after travelling to Germany from Warsaw. (Guardian - my emphasis)

There's no flies on Angela Merkel. He'll love that guard of honour thing. He'll think that's a victory in itself.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -in-poland

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 29 May, 2015 2:09 pm

This is a good list
http://flythenest.org/viewtopic.php?p=15698#p15698" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

40 ways that Gove, Hunt, Osborne & IDS wasted £34 billion of your taxes

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 29 May, 2015 2:12 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
FIRST Great Western were forced to apologise after a "cruel and tasteless" announcement told passengers that train delays were imminent because "some body couldn't be bothered to live any more." - See more at: http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/ ... cvlq2.dpuf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/ ... ouncement/

Something is fundamentally wrong with the person making this announcement about a suicide.

Something is fundamentally wrong with the person or people deciding humiliating low-paid workers by pitting them against each other for the prize of one year's living wage pay outside of London is a great idea for a 'reality television' programme.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 29 May, 2015 2:25 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
"In most of the serious crimes, such as child abduction, comms data – who called who when and where was the phone at the time, not the content of the call – the comms data is absolutely vital."

He continued: "I love watching crime drama on the television, as I should probably stop telling people. There is hardly a crime drama that is not solved without using the data of a mobile communications device. If we don't modernise the practice and the law over time we will have the communications data to solve these horrible crimes on a shrinking proportion of the total use of the devices.

"That is a real problem for keeping people safe. At the start of the next parliament, we have got to build a cross-party case for legislation to deal with this."
_______________________________

Cameron bases civil liberties and law enforcement rules on what he has seen on TV.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ation-laws

There is something fundamentally wrong with Dave Cameron.
The Tory party leading the UK in government is a bad organisation.
I hold each Tory MP responsible for their voluntary membership & endorsement of the Tory party.
They are disgraceful in policy & word.
Every one of those Tory MPs is accountable for the work done in their government.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Fri 29 May, 2015 2:31 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
"In most of the serious crimes, such as child abduction, comms data – who called who when and where was the phone at the time, not the content of the call – the comms data is absolutely vital."

He continued: "I love watching crime drama on the television, as I should probably stop telling people. There is hardly a crime drama that is not solved without using the data of a mobile communications device. If we don't modernise the practice and the law over time we will have the communications data to solve these horrible crimes on a shrinking proportion of the total use of the devices.

"That is a real problem for keeping people safe. At the start of the next parliament, we have got to build a cross-party case for legislation to deal with this."
_______________________________

Cameron bases civil liberties and law enforcement rules on what he has seen on TV.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ation-laws
He admits to being a big fan of "Game of Thrones",
haven't ever seen it, but from reading reviews find this disturbing.

Mind you he's also claimed to be a Smiths fan,
whilst supporting hunting,
& his favourite album was supposedly"The Queen is dead".

I think he just talks drivel.
& gets away with it.

It beats me how he even has the TIME to watch these mega series like Game of Thrones. All his predecessors as PM were too busy doing their job to spend hour upon hour watching telly. Why, it's almost as if he's a lazy arse who's been taken by total surprise by stuff his ministers get up to while he's swanning around looking all prime ministerial.

I don't understand the appeal of Game of Thrones - saw a bit of an episode once and it was like a glossier version of the 1980s series Robin of Sherwood, only with more barbarity, cruelty, no sympathetic characters and a hefty dose of social Darwinism.