Wednesday 3rd June 2015

Post by **refitman** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 7:07 am

Morning all.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 8:21 am

Tizme's post late last night:

''*sigh*

The to do isn't over what he did or didn't do. It's because he blatantly lied about it during the election campaign.''

FTN posters are entitled to express their opinion of the SNP/Carmichael story.

A lot of us *sighed* over what the Greens/SNP/Plaid blatantly lied about during the election campaign. No recourse to justice over that though is there ?

Sturgeon has backed tracked over the Labour £30bn austerity cuts crap.
No apology forthcoming yet though, or from the SNP's little wannabe sister parties.

https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2015/ ... s-exposed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 8:41 am

Education bill to close loopholes blocking academies expansion
Education secretary Nicky Morgan vows to sweep away obstacles ‘exploited by those with ideological objections’
http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... es-schools" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Tories' march to remove any means of expressing legitimate opposition or dissent continues relentlessly. We are going to have no right to challenge pdq if they aren't stopped - somehow.

Good morning all - despite the .....ers.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 8:43 am

Moreveaftingtons all...

@howsillyofme1 (last night)

The fact is that there is so much money flooding around at the moment, especially the flow of money from Government to 3rd party suppliers and the rush to outsourcing in global companies with absolutely no evidence of actual 'efficiency' savings - does anyone think that the likes of Serco, Cap Gemini and others of their type are providing a decent service to anyone - they are cheaper but that word 'Quality' seems to be completely forgotten - anyone can do something cheaper the skill is in providing the same quality. I am convinced backhanders are finding their way into the pockets of those making decisions - if not then I fail to understand what they are making them for. The whole edifice of Western Government and the relationship between it and high finance and business stinks to high heaven.

I have never seen or heard of any evidence or factual study that says that outsourcing is 'cheaper' (because there isn't any - like 'austerity', it's a big fat lie that serves a purpose) - 'efficiency savings' is a Thatcherite mantra repeated ad nauseam for the last 35+ years to cover the theft and destruction of society and it's protections (that were hard-fought and won by the generation now being pseudo-venerated by the media but cr***ed on from a great height by the politicians (documentary about the 'Greatest Generation' that refused to use the piece including Harry Leslie Smith or the person who is 85 years old now, struggling to eat and heat, who was at the forefront of Attlees post-war revolution) - all betrayed and marginalised by the Thatcher-Murdoch 'shiny squirrel strategy', partly to accumulate money and power for an easily manageable part of humanity (the 'Successor' generation) but mostly to allow the elites to get away with whatever they want (too early to mention the revolting activities of a few)....to my mind, it's all part of the system you're alluding to - governments and finance arranging and organising circumstances and situations that have never been voted for or debated/discussed properly, to concentrate power and money in the hands of a few (and keep it there) and the destruction of civilisation for the rest. It could only be done in this way in Britain, due to the perversity of the system (PM controls everything (with 24% of the available vote) with the Executive, answering only to backbenchers, and a 'Head of State' with nothing but a rubber-stamp role - as soon as Thatcher turned her back on the principle of honesty in politics and started denigrating her predecessors, the die was cast).

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 8:43 am

Morning RR.

Off topic, but was wondering if you'd visited Cardigan Castle since it opened after all the work.
If you have, what did you think of it ?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 8:47 am

yahyah wrote:Morning RR.

Off topic, but was wondering if you'd visited Cardigan Castle since it opened after all the work.
If you have, what did you think of it ?

Not yet yahyah - to our shame. We were super busy before the election - and then super depressed and not feeling very going outy afterwards (I'm sure you understand).

We'll try to go soon - before the real holiday season begins. Will let you know what we think then. Cardigan is certainly looking a lot better now all the construction paraphernalia has gone.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 8:48 am

Found myself tutting when I read this:

'I don't care who wins the Labour leadership,' says Welsh Labour Minister Leighton Andrews
Rhondda AM Leighton Andrews has been criticised over his comments on Twitter describing Labour's leadership contest as "English Labour's" contest
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... ns-9379211" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If it were only English Labour's contest the rest of us members in Wales & Scotland wouldn't have a vote, would we ? Or does he have a point.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 8:52 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Education bill to close loopholes blocking academies expansion
Education secretary Nicky Morgan vows to sweep away obstacles ‘exploited by those with ideological objections’
http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... es-schools" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Tories' march to remove any means of expressing legitimate opposition or dissent continues relentlessly. We are going to have no right to challenge pdq if they aren't stopped - somehow.

Good morning all - despite the .....ers.

I've been checking a bit of twitter this am as well as being here.....it appears she's getting an absolute shoeing - many many people asking about the 'evidence' for improvement through converting to Academy status

...and this is quite a good timeline...

https://twitter.com/antiacademies

ttfn

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 8:52 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Education bill to close loopholes blocking academies expansion
Education secretary Nicky Morgan vows to sweep away obstacles ‘exploited by those with ideological objections’
http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... es-schools" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Tories' march to remove any means of expressing legitimate opposition or dissent continues relentlessly. We are going to have no right to challenge pdq if they aren't stopped - somehow.

Good morning all - despite the .....ers.

This is what the Education Select Committee report on academies and free schools in Jan said:

209. At the end of this Parliament there are more good schools in England than ever before: 82% of primary schools and 71% of secondary schools have been rated by Ofsted as good or outstanding.327 Time and research will improve understanding of which factors have contributed most to this welcome development. In the meantime the Government should stop exaggerating the success of academies and be cautious about firm conclusions except where the evidence merits it. Academisation is not always successful nor is it the only proven alternative for a struggling school.

Morgan's response?

Ignore it. There are no failing academies - none at all. They're all fantastic. And there are no failing academy chains. And to stop you finding out whether we think there are, we won't disclose our internal rating of them.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 8:53 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Morning RR.

Off topic, but was wondering if you'd visited Cardigan Castle since it opened after all the work.
If you have, what did you think of it ?
Not yet yahyah - to our shame. We were super busy before the election - and then super depressed and not feeling very going outy afterwards (I'm sure you understand).

We'll try to go soon - before the real holiday season begins. Will let you know what we think then. Cardigan is certainly looking a lot better now all the construction paraphernalia has gone.

Thanks - if you do go, would you mind reporting back via a private message ?
We have a trip out with our neighbours every year and that's a place that's been mooted but not sure there will be enough to do/see for more than a brief visit.

Hope you are starting to feel less low now.
It was a shock to the system in all senses, I was admittedly too over optimistic, but a Tory majority never seemed a real possibility.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 9:05 am

yahyah wrote:Found myself tutting when I read this:

'I don't care who wins the Labour leadership,' says Welsh Labour Minister Leighton Andrews
Rhondda AM Leighton Andrews has been criticised over his comments on Twitter describing Labour's leadership contest as "English Labour's" contest
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... ns-9379211" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If it were only English Labour's contest the rest of us members in Wales & Scotland wouldn't have a vote, would we ? Or does he have a point.

He has a point - but he should be shouting at 'English Labour' to make themselves relevant to Wales and start being properly inclusive of all the areas Westminster represents. And Welsh Labour, in turn, needs to get their act together about making their policies, services and rhetoric more relevant to and better delivered in rural areas.

Labour needs a big shake up in the way it works together across the nations - and in the devolved parliaments and Westminster. I did a bit of canvassing here with a former Assembly Member - who although very good on the technical stuff about policies etc didn't seem to understand that most people on the doorstep don't make neat differentiations between devolved and Westminster matters. They thought we should just be able to say to someone that it was a devolved matter so not relevant to this time around. Not possible or desirable - we had to address any issue that came our way, devolved or not, regardless of the type of election. It's what matters to the constituent.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 10:09 am

A local story on the subject of devolution to local government.

The coalition changed the business rates system from 2013 so that local councils retained some of the rates collected in their area, explanation here.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... 053505.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The changes we are making will enable councils to keep a share of growth in
business rates in their area. This will make councils more financially
independent and give them a strong financial incentive to promote local
business growth.

Hartlepool Power Station appealed against its rateable value and has succeeded in getting it halved.

Hartlepool loses millions as power station’s tax bill is slashed
http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/news/lo ... -1-7288610" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **refitman** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 10:23 am

Andy Coulson cleared of perjury.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 10:24 am

While you're there Dan, how about putting the d in Wednesday?

Post by **refitman** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 10:28 am

refitman wrote:Andy Coulson cleared of perjury.

The aquittal has been suspended pending an appeal.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 10:30 am

gilsey wrote:While you're there Dan, how about putting the d in Wednesday?

I was exceptionally hung over this morning. You're lucky there's a W in it

'd' added.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 10:33 am

Below is a small part of an excellent article about the Labour party, the election & I admire the author's vision.
What I've quoted reminds me of someone banging your head against a wall asking why you keep hurting yourself.
But you're not hurting yourself, you're getting your head banged against a wall by someone telling you it's your fault your head is getting banged against a wall.

"We’ve also allowed a lot of myths to be put about by the right..."

- Matthew Galtress
A view from a first-time voter and activist in a key marginal
June 1, 2015
uklabour2020

https://futurelabour.wordpress.com/2015 ... r-go-next/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What is being 'allowed'? Some take. Because they can. What can we do to stop the taking?
We need to stop allowing a lot of myths to be put about by the right how?
I'm not suggesting it's futile to try to stop myths. Not at all. I want to know how to stop lies & have truth to take its place.

Good-morning, everyone.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 11:08 am

Victims of the Human Rights Act are pretty hard to come by, while myths about outrages perpetrated in its name are so widespread as to be collectible. Over the course of the past week I made it a bit of a hobby.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... eep-coming" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 11:11 am

yahyah wrote:Tizme's post late last night:
''*sigh*

The to do isn't over what he did or didn't do. It's because he blatantly lied about it during the election campaign.''

FTN posters are entitled to express their opinion of the SNP/Carmichael story.

A lot of us *sighed* over what the Greens/SNP/Plaid blatantly lied about during the election campaign. No recourse to justice over that though is there ?

Sturgeon has backed tracked over the Labour £30bn austerity cuts crap.
No apology forthcoming yet though, or from the SNP's little wannabe sister parties.

https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2015/ ... s-exposed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Exactly. As I said last night, he was wrong to lie and he apologised for doing so. That should have been the end of the story. I expect it would have been if the memo had referred to any party but the SNP.
Had I lived in his constituency, I would not have voted for him, despite having voted LibDem in 2010. Neither would I have voted for the SNP – the party that has been telling blatant lies since the beginning of the referendum campaign and has done its best to suppress free speech, entirely without apology. However, it seems that both the Greens and PC were perfectly willing to align themselves with the SNP, which would have made them equally unsupportable in my eyes.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -coalition
I might have a little respect for the SNP and their hangers-on if they were campaigning against all the lies told during the run up to the election. But they’re not.
During the referendum campaign, Jim Sillars promised a “day of reckoning” if Scotland voted for independence.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-29181989
To many SNP fanatics, Carmichael, as SoS for Scotland, was a “colonial governor”. It seems to me that he is now facing his “day of reckoning” from those he dared to stand against.
As I said – a storm in a teacup - brewed up by a bunch of losers.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 11:11 am

Good morfternoon.

I keep seeing this article (linked below) in my local rag:

THE 50 most boring things of modern life (News)

The article is dated May 11th - but it's still coming up on the website "front page".

Note that the picture montage features just one politician. I imagine the article has been taken from a national newspaper (most of the stuff in the "local" paper tends to be).

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sponsored?m ... 167df46#!/

Edited to add -

And just keep giving out the message that politics is "boring", why don't you? That'll stop people from being a nuisance to the powers that be. It makes me furious.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 11:27 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Education bill to close loopholes blocking academies expansion
Education secretary Nicky Morgan vows to sweep away obstacles ‘exploited by those with ideological objections’
http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... es-schools" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Tories' march to remove any means of expressing legitimate opposition or dissent continues relentlessly. We are going to have no right to challenge pdq if they aren't stopped - somehow.

Good morning all - despite the .....ers.

They can "vow" to do all these things, but in many cases they are going to find it more difficult to actually *achieve* them.

What they demean as "ideology" is often sheer practicality. Something that the Conservative party used to cite as a virtue in their favour.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 11:41 am

refitman wrote:
refitman wrote:Andy Coulson cleared of perjury.
The aquittal has been suspended pending an appeal.

Interestingly, the judge has said that Coulson's evidence was irrelevant - so it doesn't matter whether he lied or not.

Explaining his ruling, Lord Burns told the jury that perjury was the giving of false evidence under oath which is relevant to the issues in that trial.
He said the Crown needed to prove that Mr Coulson's allegedly false evidence in the 2010 Sheridan case was relevant to the issues in that trial, and that was for him as a judge to decide rather than the jury.
Lord Burns said that after two days of legal submissions the Crown had not satisfied him that Mr Coulson's evidence had been relevant.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32962263

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 11:47 am

Royal Berkshire Hospital has 34 patients who should no longer be there
The RBH board was told there was more than a ward full of bedblockers whose transfer from hospital was delayed

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local- ... ts-9349015

Reading house prices rising faster than properties in London
Prices have risen by over 13 per cent since last year and are also rocketing in Bracknell and Wokingham.

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local- ... er-9372523

Housing and Health. What's it going to be like in two to three years time?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 12:01 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
yahyah wrote:Tizme's post late last night:
''*sigh*

The to do isn't over what he did or didn't do. It's because he blatantly lied about it during the election campaign.''

FTN posters are entitled to express their opinion of the SNP/Carmichael story.

A lot of us *sighed* over what the Greens/SNP/Plaid blatantly lied about during the election campaign. No recourse to justice over that though is there ?

Sturgeon has backed tracked over the Labour £30bn austerity cuts crap.
No apology forthcoming yet though, or from the SNP's little wannabe sister parties.

https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2015/ ... s-exposed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Exactly. As I said last night, he was wrong to lie and he apologised for doing so. That should have been the end of the story. I expect it would have been if the memo had referred to any party but the SNP.
Had I lived in his constituency, I would not have voted for him, despite having voted LibDem in 2010. Neither would I have voted for the SNP – the party that has been telling blatant lies since the beginning of the referendum campaign and has done its best to suppress free speech, entirely without apology. However, it seems that both the Greens and PC were perfectly willing to align themselves with the SNP, which would have made them equally unsupportable in my eyes.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -coalition
I might have a little respect for the SNP and their hangers-on if they were campaigning against all the lies told during the run up to the election. But they’re not.
During the referendum campaign, Jim Sillars promised a “day of reckoning” if Scotland voted for independence.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-29181989
To many SNP fanatics, Carmichael, as SoS for Scotland, was a “colonial governor”. It seems to me that he is now facing his “day of reckoning” from those he dared to stand against.
As I said – a storm in a teacup - brewed up by a bunch of losers.

Thank you for your post, Eric_WLothian.
What I've learned about the SNP within the last year alarms me - they're not interested in representing all the people of the UK. They've got a lot in common with Tories in that respect - some people don't matter to either party & both don't care if some parts of the country suffer. I've learned about the LibDems through their five years working in a Tory government like Tories.
I'm wary of Tories, the SNP & LibDems in general. I think all three thank Carmichael for his recent action & are happy with him regardless of any contrary public statement issued. I think Carmichael's action was meant to slander Labour & promote Tory's fear & denigration campaign. It was a spiteful piece of work with Carmichael identified alone.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 12:06 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Royal Berkshire Hospital has 34 patients who should no longer be there
The RBH board was told there was more than a ward full of bedblockers whose transfer from hospital was delayed

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local- ... ts-9349015

Reading house prices rising faster than properties in London
Prices have risen by over 13 per cent since last year and are also rocketing in Bracknell and Wokingham.

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local- ... er-9372523
Housing and Health. What's it going to be like in two to three years time?

Health & social care provided by slave labour, shanty towns, gated communities & private security forces.
'...they said openly that christ and his saints slept'

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 12:06 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote:
yahyah wrote:Tizme's post late last night:
FTN posters are entitled to express their opinion of the SNP/Carmichael story.

A lot of us *sighed* over what the Greens/SNP/Plaid blatantly lied about during the election campaign. No recourse to justice over that though is there ?

Sturgeon has backed tracked over the Labour £30bn austerity cuts crap.
No apology forthcoming yet though, or from the SNP's little wannabe sister parties.

https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2015/ ... s-exposed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Exactly. As I said last night, he was wrong to lie and he apologised for doing so. That should have been the end of the story. I expect it would have been if the memo had referred to any party but the SNP.
Had I lived in his constituency, I would not have voted for him, despite having voted LibDem in 2010. Neither would I have voted for the SNP – the party that has been telling blatant lies since the beginning of the referendum campaign and has done its best to suppress free speech, entirely without apology. However, it seems that both the Greens and PC were perfectly willing to align themselves with the SNP, which would have made them equally unsupportable in my eyes.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -coalition
I might have a little respect for the SNP and their hangers-on if they were campaigning against all the lies told during the run up to the election. But they’re not.
During the referendum campaign, Jim Sillars promised a “day of reckoning” if Scotland voted for independence.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-29181989
To many SNP fanatics, Carmichael, as SoS for Scotland, was a “colonial governor”. It seems to me that he is now facing his “day of reckoning” from those he dared to stand against.
As I said – a storm in a teacup - brewed up by a bunch of losers.
Thank you for your post, Eric_WLothian.
What I've learned about the SNP within the last year alarms me - they're not interested in representing all the people of the UK. They've got a lot in common with Tories in that respect - some people don't matter to either party & both don't care if some parts of the country suffer. I've learned about the LibDems through their five years working in a Tory government like Tories.
I'm wary of Tories, the SNP & LibDems in general. I think all three thank Carmichael for his recent action & are happy with him regardless of any contrary public statement issued. I think Carmichael's action was meant to slander Labour & promote Tory's fear & denigration campaign. It was a spiteful piece of work with Carmichael identified alone.

It seems worse than not representing all people of the UK, they don't seem to want to represent all people in Scotland. Only the ones who agree with them. Worrying indeed.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 12:13 pm

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

I keep seeing this article (linked below) in my local rag:

THE 50 most boring things of modern life (News)
The article is dated May 11th - but it's still coming up on the website "front page".

Note that the picture montage features just one politician. I imagine the article has been taken from a national newspaper (most of the stuff in the "local" paper tends to be).

http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/sponsored?m ... 167df46#!/

Edited to add -

And just keep giving out the message that politics is "boring", why don't you? That'll stop people from being a nuisance to the powers that be. It makes me furious.

You're not wrong in your analysis.
I'm angry too.
So many myths, so little time or power to stop the heads hitting the wall

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 12:14 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Found myself tutting when I read this:

'I don't care who wins the Labour leadership,' says Welsh Labour Minister Leighton Andrews
Rhondda AM Leighton Andrews has been criticised over his comments on Twitter describing Labour's leadership contest as "English Labour's" contest
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... ns-9379211" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If it were only English Labour's contest the rest of us members in Wales & Scotland wouldn't have a vote, would we ? Or does he have a point.
He has a point - but he should be shouting at 'English Labour' to make themselves relevant to Wales and start being properly inclusive of all the areas Westminster represents. And Welsh Labour, in turn, needs to get their act together about making their policies, services and rhetoric more relevant to and better delivered in rural areas.

Labour needs a big shake up in the way it works together across the nations - and in the devolved parliaments and Westminster. I did a bit of canvassing here with a former Assembly Member - who although very good on the technical stuff about policies etc didn't seem to understand that most people on the doorstep don't make neat differentiations between devolved and Westminster matters. They thought we should just be able to say to someone that it was a devolved matter so not relevant to this time around. Not possible or desirable - we had to address any issue that came our way, devolved or not, regardless of the type of election. It's what matters to the constituent.

Have to agree - Labour's generally underwhelming result in Wales was caused to a significant degree by their opponents conflating both levels of government when it suited them. There isn't that much time to develop a strategy to counter that before the Assembly election next year......

Tonibel · Post by **Tonibel** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 12:26 pm

Is it just my telly or do all the Tory mps at pmqs look smugger fatter and pinker than before (Fishpointer included)?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 12:33 pm

Public Services Minister Leighton Andrews tweeted a message which said:
“Too much #listenkeir appearing in my timeline. I really don’t care who English Labour choose.”

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... ns-9379211" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I beg your pardon, Mr. Andrews.
What is English Labour?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 12:36 pm

There is a case for both the Scottish and Welsh Labour parties having (at least) greater autonomy from London. But I don't think that should be declared unilaterally

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 12:42 pm

Nicely formatted live Parliamentary website.
Works fine for Linux.
It's playing the wrong government though.

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Commons" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 12:49 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:There is a case for both the Scottish and Welsh Labour parties having (at least) greater autonomy from London. But I don't think that should be declared unilaterally

Agreed. Greater regional control through democratically elected representatives is fine; let's work that out.
There's no such thing as 'English Labour'
That name has one ugly purpose, to divide.
We won't prosper together while divided.

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 12:52 pm

yahyah wrote:Tizme's post late last night:
''*sigh*

The to do isn't over what he did or didn't do. It's because he blatantly lied about it during the election campaign.''

FTN posters are entitled to express their opinion of the SNP/Carmichael story.

A lot of us *sighed* over what the Greens/SNP/Plaid blatantly lied about during the election campaign. No recourse to justice over that though is there ?

Sturgeon has backed tracked over the Labour £30bn austerity cuts crap.
No apology forthcoming yet though, or from the SNP's little wannabe sister parties.

https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2015/ ... s-exposed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As usual yahyah you spectacularly miss the point. I do not agree with lies, spin or dirty tactics regardless which party is indulging in them. I do not agree that two wrongs make a right if it damages the party you dislike/favours the party you support. The only small amount of control I have, is over the conduct of Greens in Watford and we don't indulge in such behaviour.

Thank you however for confirming what I already knew. Seemingly I am not a 'ftn' poster and therefore not entitled to express my opinion. So much for a realigning of the 'left'.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 12:54 pm

That is not what she said at all - let's not start flouncing again, please......

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 12:55 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Found myself tutting when I read this:

'I don't care who wins the Labour leadership,' says Welsh Labour Minister Leighton Andrews
Rhondda AM Leighton Andrews has been criticised over his comments on Twitter describing Labour's leadership contest as "English Labour's" contest
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... ns-9379211" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If it were only English Labour's contest the rest of us members in Wales & Scotland wouldn't have a vote, would we ? Or does he have a point.
He has a point - but he should be shouting at 'English Labour' to make themselves relevant to Wales and start being properly inclusive of all the areas Westminster represents. And Welsh Labour, in turn, needs to get their act together about making their policies, services and rhetoric more relevant to and better delivered in rural areas.

Labour needs a big shake up in the way it works together across the nations - and in the devolved parliaments and Westminster. I did a bit of canvassing here with a former Assembly Member - who although very good on the technical stuff about policies etc didn't seem to understand that most people on the doorstep don't make neat differentiations between devolved and Westminster matters. They thought we should just be able to say to someone that it was a devolved matter so not relevant to this time around. Not possible or desirable - we had to address any issue that came our way, devolved or not, regardless of the type of election. It's what matters to the constituent.
Have to agree - Labour's generally underwhelming result in Wales was caused to a significant degree by their opponents conflating both levels of government when it suited them. There isn't that much time to develop a strategy to counter that before the Assembly election next year......

"...conflating both levels of government when it suited them..."

Hold classes everyday on how government works in the UK daily all over the country & dispel myths by telling the truth.
Every day, teach everyone how government works in 21st century UK.

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 1:09 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:That is not what she said at all - let's not start flouncing again, please......

I am not flouncing. I am expressing my opinion. yahyah frequently takes digs at the Greens, and if either Tem or I post, she makes some sarcastic comment or dig.

Still fear not, I have much better things to do than worry about it or what anyone on here might say/think. There's an afternoon of potentially outstanding tennis to enjoy.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 1:12 pm

Tizme1 wrote:
Still fear not, I have much better things to do than worry about it or what anyone on here might say/think. There's an afternoon of potentially outstanding tennis to enjoy.

Are you playing or watching?

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 1:21 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Tizme1 wrote:
Still fear not, I have much better things to do than worry about it or what anyone on here might say/think. There's an afternoon of potentially outstanding tennis to enjoy.

Are you playing or watching?

Watching. [French Open]. Sadly my appalling tennis ability is second only to my appalling singing. It's a close run thing though.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 1:35 pm

NHS regulators to take over health services in three English regions

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... sh-regions

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 1:38 pm

Eurozone crisis: Defiant Greece confirms it WILL miss looming debt repayment to leave euro

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/5 ... leave-euro

Now what?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 2:22 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Eurozone crisis: Defiant Greece confirms it WILL miss looming debt repayment to leave euro

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/5 ... leave-euro
Now what?

Oh cripes Ohso - just come in for my lunch and I'm reading your post .... yes - now what? I read yesterday that one of the German negotiators said they had prepared and presented their 'final' offer to Greece. It somehow sounded quite threatening rather than helpful.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 2:25 pm

Breaking News ...

NHS regulators to take over health services in three English regions
Unprecedented measure – known as ‘success regime’ – involves takeover of services across multiple trusts spanning whole regions
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... sh-regions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Announced just after the first health questions session in the HoC. Funny that.

Crisis - what crisis, said Hunt and Cameron before the election. They've got some nerve - don't they just.

Editing to add - sorry Ohso, hadn't seen you had already posted a link to this story.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 2:36 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Breaking News ...

NHS regulators to take over health services in three English regions
Unprecedented measure – known as ‘success regime’ – involves takeover of services across multiple trusts spanning whole regions
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... sh-regions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Announced just after the first health questions session in the HoC. Funny that.

Crisis - what crisis, said Hunt and Cameron before the election. They've got some nerve - don't they just.

Editing to add - sorry Ohso, hadn't seen you had already posted a link to this story.

.

Part of their hundred days....?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 2:36 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
NHS regulators to take over health services in three English regions

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... sh-regions

Unprecedented measure – known as ‘success regime’ – involves takeover of services across multiple trusts spanning whole regions

I'm frightened by this news.

thatchersorphan · Post by **thatchersorphan** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 3:32 pm

In 2014, officials issued 79 sanctions for every 100 Brits claiming Jobseeker's Allowance http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/benefits- ... ou-5785721" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Liam Purcell, from campaign group Church Action on Poverty, said: “If you commit a crime, no criminal court in the UK is allowed to make you go hungry as a punishment.
“But if you’re late for an appointment at the Jobcentre, they can remove all your income and leave you unable to feed yourself or your family for weeks at a time.
"Last year, 100,000 children were hit by sanctions. And every day, 100 people with mental health problems are sanctioned and left with no income."

thatchersorphan · Post by **thatchersorphan** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 3:39 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ca ... ng-5815825" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Car sticker sold on eBay suggesting disabled people are just lazy removed following online backlash Depressing result on the poll at the end - too many people think the sticker was fine

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 4:32 pm

Jim Waterson ‏@jimwaterson 2m2 minutes ago
Someone within government has just added 'David Cameron' to Wikipedia's right-wing dictators. " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 4:59 pm

Ian Lucas ‏@IanCLucas 6m6 minutes ago
Excellent speech from @DavidHansonMP, my Parliamentary mentor, displaying the real threat of English Votes for English Laws to N Wales

Glad to see some fight back from the Welsh MPs over this. Will take a look at Hansard later to see what he actually said.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 03 Jun, 2015 5:13 pm

Cameron fails to rule out cuts to disability benefits

Asked in the Commons if he stood by the commitments he made on disability benefits during the election campaign, the PM declined to comment (Guardian)

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... y-benefits