Tuesday 16th September 2014
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Tuesday 16th September 2014
Morning. Labour lead at 4 points on Yougov:
Latest YouGov / The Sun results 15th Sept -
Con 31%, (-1)
Lab 35%, (no change)
LD 7%, (no change)
UKIP 15%; (no change)
APP -26 (-2)
Latest YouGov / The Sun results 15th Sept -
Con 31%, (-1)
Lab 35%, (no change)
LD 7%, (no change)
UKIP 15%; (no change)
APP -26 (-2)
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Morning!
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2014 ... nsibility/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
so-it-wasnt-labour-after-all-according-to-the-office-for-budget-responsibility
a good post from Richard Murphy.
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2014 ... nsibility/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
so-it-wasnt-labour-after-all-according-to-the-office-for-budget-responsibility
a good post from Richard Murphy.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
If you have 10 minutes to spare, read this, explains a lot about the mind-set within the ''Yes'' brigade, not everyone obviously, but there are recognisable traits that we have all seen in this campaign.
http://wakeupscotland.wordpress.com/201 ... ged-to-no/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Morning by the way..
http://wakeupscotland.wordpress.com/201 ... ged-to-no/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Morning by the way..
Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
I was just about to post that.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning!
http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2014 ... nsibility/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
so-it-wasnt-labour-after-all-according-to-the-office-for-budget-responsibility
a good post from Richard Murphy.
Even the OBR doesn't agree with the official Government narrative. That quote should come in handy in the election campaign.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Cardiff, apparently is the best city in the country to live in. Right that's it.. Freeedom for Wales.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local ... st-7758390" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local ... st-7758390" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Morning all.
Have notice we have two new members but they seem to be Google Bots and Spiders ?
Is that good or bad ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googlebot" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Have notice we have two new members but they seem to be Google Bots and Spiders ?
Is that good or bad ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googlebot" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Morning.
"Greenest Government ever?-"
http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... rd-report/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Greenest Government ever?-"
http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... rd-report/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
letsskiptotheleft wrote:Cardiff, apparently is the best city in the country to live in. Right that's it.. Freeedom for Wales.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local ... st-7758390" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I do find Cardiff very pleasant I have to say. I like small capital cities
For example Dublin and Edinburgh are still great cities, but have lost a certain charm for me as they've grown bigger.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
P.S. Haven't spent enough time in Belfast to comment.
- rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Morning letsskip. Wales has the best of several if not many things IMO.letsskiptotheleft wrote:Cardiff, apparently is the best city in the country to live in. Right that's it.. Freeedom for Wales.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local ... st-7758390" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think we're still suffering re the economic recovery (what economic recovery) though. I'm sure I heard a report on the BBC Wales news a couple of days back that consumer spending in Wales has fallen sharply and by more than anywhere else in the UK ... but I haven't been able to find a news item online to back up my powers of hearing.
That walesonline edition is also carrying a piece about very high shop vacancy rates in Wales. Not surprising if what I heard is true. And I guess we're about to have our share of empty Phone4U premises on top of that.
I was chatting to a client who is a property developer the other day (actually a very nice and ethical bloke) about the local housing market. None of our neighbours have been able to sell their properties - despite them being very nice places and not over priced. He told me that estate agents tell him that only properties under £150,000 are selling (if they're decent) and usually for well under the asking price. The others are sitting there unsold ... simply no buyers for them.
I think Dave and Osborne are going to find it very hard to bang on about their wonderful economic recovery in the coming months ... it's only touching a very chosen and charmed few at present.
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Retweeted by Thomas Hemingford
The Independent @Independent 28m
Government guilty of overcharging for passports, report says http://ind.pn/1uESGsk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Independent @Independent 28m
Government guilty of overcharging for passports, report says http://ind.pn/1uESGsk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Hi yahah. Bots & spiders are okay. They index the site so it appears in search engines and stuff.yahyah wrote:Morning all.
Have notice we have two new members but they seem to be Google Bots and Spiders ?
Is that good or bad ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googlebot" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Some interesting comments BTL re impact being noticed re commercial premises, banking etc. My guess is a YES prompt may well prompt a big escalation of money being shifted out of Scottish banks - unless they try to freeze accounts for a while ... that's a bad thought.Flow of money to English banks from Scotland 'raises eyebrows' in Cumbria
Cumbria Chamber of Commerce CEO says significant numbers of firms are moving funds to banks with headquarters in England
http://www.theguardian.com/global/2014/ ... ks-cumbria
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
RR2, what you say is what we see here in Ceredigion too.
More and more empty shops, less availability of products so you are forced to use the internet or travel miles. House prices still well below the financial crash level if selling.
More and more empty shops, less availability of products so you are forced to use the internet or travel miles. House prices still well below the financial crash level if selling.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
refitman wrote:Hi yahah. Bots & spiders are okay. They index the site so it appears in search engines and stuff.yahyah wrote:Morning all.
Have notice we have two new members but they seem to be Google Bots and Spiders ?
Is that good or bad ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googlebot" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks Dan, just twitchy after our recent Russian lingerie spammer.
& belated birthday wishes for yesterday.
- rebeccariots2
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
On Wales and what is lovely about rural life and Mr Riots bewilderment ...
Mr Riots has just returned from driving down our track to drop the rubbish at the side of the road and pick up yesterday's post from our mailbox.
He came in holding a handwritten envelope saying we've got a letter to someone who doesn't live here ... I think it's for a 'G Tenby' - never heard of them, have you?
I looked at it and said. It's addressed to 'Y Teulu' - it means 'The Family'. We opened it and it was a handwritten invite to a local produce fair in the village hall. That's how they do a lot of things round here.
And with that - I'm off to work - weeding and clearing and beautifying gardens. See you later.
Mr Riots has just returned from driving down our track to drop the rubbish at the side of the road and pick up yesterday's post from our mailbox.
He came in holding a handwritten envelope saying we've got a letter to someone who doesn't live here ... I think it's for a 'G Tenby' - never heard of them, have you?
I looked at it and said. It's addressed to 'Y Teulu' - it means 'The Family'. We opened it and it was a handwritten invite to a local produce fair in the village hall. That's how they do a lot of things round here.
And with that - I'm off to work - weeding and clearing and beautifying gardens. See you later.
Working on the wild side.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
This is good. Sorry if it's already been posted.
http://vis.oobrien.com/indyref/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Shows the likely times of the Referendum results in various areas linked to the likely vote outcome in those areas.
So, 2.00 am predicted results for East Lothian (tending slightly to No) and North Lanarkshire (tending slightly to Yes) look worth staying up for.
http://vis.oobrien.com/indyref/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Shows the likely times of the Referendum results in various areas linked to the likely vote outcome in those areas.
So, 2.00 am predicted results for East Lothian (tending slightly to No) and North Lanarkshire (tending slightly to Yes) look worth staying up for.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
And, as someone else pointed out, 5.00 am for Glasgow which these guys have as too close to call. With 11.5% of the electorate, it's the probable defining moment.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Is the Guardian trying to lose as many readers as possible ?
Using my lap top I clicked on this article - usual late period John Harris twollop probably, and get a horrible format.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Using my lap top I clicked on this article - usual late period John Harris twollop probably, and get a horrible format.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- AngryAsWell
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
...and music? that's mucked up my R5 I have on. (it's the beta site by the way)yahyah wrote:Is the Guardian trying to lose as many readers as possible ?
Using my lap top I clicked on this article - usual late period John Harris twollop probably, and get a horrible format.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Looks like the Guardian are as sensitive about comments about their beta thingy as the Nats are about questions about currency union. My post's been deleted.
Have a good day everyone.
& to OhSo on losing Spike.
Have a good day everyone.
& to OhSo on losing Spike.
Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Your comment's still there. Looks like there are more comments about the design than about the video itself. (The Beta truly is hideous and forcing people to use it, rather than switch back and forth is not best practise!)yahyah wrote:Looks like the Guardian are as sensitive about comments about their beta thingy as the Nats are about questions about currency union. My post's been deleted.
Have a good day everyone.
& to OhSo on losing Spike.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Guardian Beta is vile. No top down reorganisation of the Comments section!
Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Mike Smithson says there are five indyref polls due tomorrow. Looks like it's good news for everybody.
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Agree yahyah, I haven't seen much economic recovery round these parts either, I doubt other regions have either. Spent a 4 days travelling around mid Wales last month with a friend, started in Brecon, not far from me, furthest got was Montgomery, Rhayader, Llandrindod Wells, Hay on Wye, with the exception of Hay property prices were surprisingly low.. Not I must stress that I want an economy based on house prices..rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning letsskip. Wales has the best of several if not many things IMO.letsskiptotheleft wrote:Cardiff, apparently is the best city in the country to live in. Right that's it.. Freeedom for Wales.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/local ... st-7758390" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think we're still suffering re the economic recovery (what economic recovery) though. I'm sure I heard a report on the BBC Wales news a couple of days back that consumer spending in Wales has fallen sharply and by more than anywhere else in the UK ... but I haven't been able to find a news item online to back up my powers of hearing.
That walesonline edition is also carrying a piece about very high shop vacancy rates in Wales. Not surprising if what I heard is true. And I guess we're about to have our share of empty Phone4U premises on top of that.
I was chatting to a client who is a property developer the other day (actually a very nice and ethical bloke) about the local housing market. None of our neighbours have been able to sell their properties - despite them being very nice places and not over priced. He told me that estate agents tell him that only properties under £150,000 are selling (if they're decent) and usually for well under the asking price. The others are sitting there unsold ... simply no buyers for them.
I think Dave and Osborne are going to find it very hard to bang on about their wonderful economic recovery in the coming months ... it's only touching a very chosen and charmed few at present.
Paul, Cardiff is a cracking little city, try not to go to Newport though, you'll come away feeling depressed.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Something for everyone to cling onto then?adam wrote:Mike Smithson says there are five indyref polls due tomorrow. Looks like it's good news for everybody.
Discussion somewhere this morning about polls being banned two weeks before elections, I can see a certain logic there.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Oh...
Rotherham PCC Shaun Wright resigns following abuse scandal. More details to follow…
What took him so long I wonder?
Unless there's something coming out that we haven't yet heard about.
Rotherham PCC Shaun Wright resigns following abuse scandal. More details to follow…
What took him so long I wonder?
Unless there's something coming out that we haven't yet heard about.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Good, bad, another police commissioner poll coming up, such joy.RogerOThornhill wrote:Oh...
Rotherham PCC Shaun Wright resigns following abuse scandal. More details to follow…
What took him so long I wonder?
Unless there's something coming out that we haven't yet heard about.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
''Yes'' voters account for 88% of comment on social media, the modern day equivalent of carpet bombing.
Can't say I am surprised by that stat.
Can't say I am surprised by that stat.
- AngryAsWell
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Cleaning up his desk ?RogerOThornhill wrote:Oh...
Rotherham PCC Shaun Wright resigns following abuse scandal. More details to follow…
What took him so long I wonder?
Unless there's something coming out that we haven't yet heard about.
Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Good morning,
I was overtaken by events yesterday, and didn't say goodnight.
@refitman
Happy birthday for yesterday! Sorry I missed it.
@ohsocynical
I hope you're ok. (I've just read of your news regarding Spike.)
I was overtaken by events yesterday, and didn't say goodnight.
@refitman
Happy birthday for yesterday! Sorry I missed it.
@ohsocynical
I hope you're ok. (I've just read of your news regarding Spike.)
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Ah but the 'no' campaign have 11 Second World War heroes, six former heads of the army in Scotland and 15 other retired generals against the 'yes' campaign's 18 Scottish veterans (including 102-year-old Desert Rat Jimmy Sinclair), a former Royal Marine SNP minister, an ex-Royal Navy intelligence officer and a retired Lieutenant Colonel.letsskiptotheleft wrote:''Yes'' voters account for 88% of comment on social media, the modern day equivalent of carpet bombing.
Can't say I am surprised by that stat.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3542707
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
I can't think of another political movement outside of the middle east where the online campaign has been so one sided.letsskiptotheleft wrote:''Yes'' voters account for 88% of comment on social media, the modern day equivalent of carpet bombing.
Can't say I am surprised by that stat.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Climate change comes pretty close! Speaking of which, the Naomi Klein book This Changes Everything ISBN: 9781846145056 is out. The Shock Doctrine set a pretty high bar to reach!JackPranker wrote:I can't think of another political movement outside of the middle east where the online campaign has been so one sided.letsskiptotheleft wrote:''Yes'' voters account for 88% of comment on social media, the modern day equivalent of carpet bombing.
Can't say I am surprised by that stat.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Gordon giving a barn stormer on the news at the moment!!
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
There is no bigger beast in British politics, know I am biased but he's ripping the SNP to bits here, exposing their lies and twisting of the truth.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Then it's a shame that he is only speaking to campaigners and not voters. How is he expecting to change "yes" voters minds?letsskiptotheleft wrote:There is no bigger beast in British politics, know I am biased but he's ripping the SNP to bits here, exposing their lies and twisting of the truth.
- TheGrimSqueaker
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Anybody daring to voice a contrary opinion has been relentlessly mobbed, not pleasant as I found out myself. As Ephe has said on the GraunJackPranker wrote:I can't think of another political movement outside of the middle east where the online campaign has been so one sided.letsskiptotheleft wrote:''Yes'' voters account for 88% of comment on social media, the modern day equivalent of carpet bombing.
Can't say I am surprised by that stat.
Would that more were like her, sadly many seem to have fallen in step with the zealots.Although I'm pro-Yes (and no, I'm not going to go on about it - I've said all I have to say) I'm not impressed with the zealots on either side.
The Yes campaigns big weapon has been the number of A-listers - Cummings, Cox, Welsh et al - who will always attract attention and have definitely fallen into the 'zealot' camp; but then, they don't have to live with the consequences, do they?Eric_WLothian wrote:Ah but the 'no' campaign have 11 Second World War heroes, six former heads of the army in Scotland and 15 other retired generals against the 'yes' campaign's 18 Scottish veterans (including 102-year-old Desert Rat Jimmy Sinclair), a former Royal Marine SNP minister, an ex-Royal Navy intelligence officer and a retired Lieutenant Colonel.
COWER BRIEF MORTALS. HO. HO. HO.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
I agree with you there, don't know what the reason for him not addressing crowds is, security, as a former PM, possibly but doubtful..JackPranker wrote:Then it's a shame that he is only speaking to campaigners and not voters. How is he expecting to change "yes" voters minds?letsskiptotheleft wrote:There is no bigger beast in British politics, know I am biased but he's ripping the SNP to bits here, exposing their lies and twisting of the truth.
At least Blair hasn't got involved, grateful for small mercies eh?!
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
I expect the "no" campaign are not suicidal. It's bad enough they have Cameron and Clegg on their side!letsskiptotheleft wrote:I agree with you there, don't know what the reason for him not addressing crowds is, security, as a former PM, possibly but doubtful..JackPranker wrote:Then it's a shame that he is only speaking to campaigners and not voters. How is he expecting to change "yes" voters minds?letsskiptotheleft wrote:There is no bigger beast in British politics, know I am biased but he's ripping the SNP to bits here, exposing their lies and twisting of the truth.
At least Blair hasn't got involved, grateful for small mercies eh?!
It's been a problem for BT from the start. The heavy hitters have only recently started to engage, but when they do they engage with invited groups rather than soap-boxing. Jim Murphy did his 100 days, but from the press generated it would appear that even he travelled with his audience on the same bus!
Compare that to the "Yes" grass-roots campaigning, it has seemed to me that one side looks engaged and the other side looks aloof - a continuation of an attitude that has, in part, brought this situation about. For those hoping for a "no" vote, they may be relying on the fear of the unknown being a greater pull than the hope of change.
Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Nicola Sturgeon is arguing that English, N Irish, and Welsh (in purely alphabetical order!) businesses would incur vast costs relating to currency changes when trading with Scotland in the (likely) event of there being no currency union agreement. Does anyone know the ins and outs of such a claim, please? (Especially if Scotland, as Alex Salmond reckons, is going to waltz effortlessly into membership of the EU.)
And yes - Gordon Brown did well. His speech is being described as "passionate" - which it was. But not in a faux trembly lip manner. Barn-storming (as letsskiptotheleft said). I suppose the "No" campaign is relying on his speech being reported in the media (re the "preaching to the choir" observations).
Edited
Capital "N" for "No"
And yes - Gordon Brown did well. His speech is being described as "passionate" - which it was. But not in a faux trembly lip manner. Barn-storming (as letsskiptotheleft said). I suppose the "No" campaign is relying on his speech being reported in the media (re the "preaching to the choir" observations).
Edited
Capital "N" for "No"
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Maybe changing the minds of those committed to "yes" is not the primary aim? Its more reaching out to waverers, and mobilising the "no" camp.JackPranker wrote:Then it's a shame that he is only speaking to campaigners and not voters. How is he expecting to change "yes" voters minds?letsskiptotheleft wrote:There is no bigger beast in British politics, know I am biased but he's ripping the SNP to bits here, exposing their lies and twisting of the truth.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Yes - I think you're right in that that's the main aim, actually. Not many fervent "Yes" voters are likely to be swayed, especially at this stage.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Maybe changing the minds of those committed to "yes" is not the primary aim? Its more reaching out to waverers, and mobilising the "no" camp.JackPranker wrote:Then it's a shame that he is only speaking to campaigners and not voters. How is he expecting to change "yes" voters minds?letsskiptotheleft wrote:There is no bigger beast in British politics, know I am biased but he's ripping the SNP to bits here, exposing their lies and twisting of the truth.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
I admired Brown in the past for being an honest man. Attributing "Kim Yong Il" as an advisor to Salmond is eroding that rapidly. If both sides are serious about keeping this cordial then rhetoric should be being condemned by campaign leaders, not perpetuated.
- TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
He was really just pointing out the breadth of Salmonds political backers.JackPranker wrote:I admired Brown in the past for being an honest man. Attributing "Kim Yong Il" as an advisor to Salmond is eroding that rapidly. If both sides are serious about keeping this cordial then rhetoric should be being condemned by campaign leaders, not perpetuated.
Nothing compares to the spectacular cascade of lies the Yes campaign have told. The NHS one is bad enough, but the currency lie and the EU membership lie are utterly irresponsible.
You have to be honest about the risks.
Release the Guardvarks.
Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
I think that it's probably a bit late for that now.JackPranker wrote:I admired Brown in the past for being an honest man. Attributing "Kim Yong Il" as an advisor to Salmond is eroding that rapidly. If both sides are serious about keeping this cordial then rhetoric should be being condemned by campaign leaders, not perpetuated.
If there is a yes vote I'm expecting an awful lot of fury from Mr Salmond et al when it finally sinks in that there really isn't going to be a currency union.
And following a no the yessrs won't be going quietly will they?
Looking forward to it tbh but hoping still for a Yes.Please.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Back a few months ago when the furore over the Trojan Horse things was going on there was this exchange in the HoL:
IIRC the minister who was in that meeting with a Birmingham HT was one Lord Hill...now our EU commissioner. Wouldn't look very good if it came out that they'd been warned, knew what might be going on and even then did nothing.
We'll see. It might slip out in a written answer which won't get much notice.
At the time I remember thinking "that's the last we'll ever hear of this".Asked by Baroness Jones of Whitchurch
To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the statement by Lord Nash on 9 June (HL Deb, col 167), whether the investigation by the Permanent Secretary of the Department for Education into the handling of the Trojan horse allegations in 2010 will be made public; and what is the timeframe for the report.[HL282]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Schools (Lord Nash) (Con): The Secretary of State has asked the Permanent Secretary to conduct an internal review into how the Department for Education dealt with warnings in Birmingham since the formation of this Government in 2010, and before. The Permanent Secretary intends to present his findings to the Secretary of State later in the summer.
IIRC the minister who was in that meeting with a Birmingham HT was one Lord Hill...now our EU commissioner. Wouldn't look very good if it came out that they'd been warned, knew what might be going on and even then did nothing.
We'll see. It might slip out in a written answer which won't get much notice.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
JackPranker wrote:I admired Brown in the past for being an honest man. Attributing "Kim Yong Il" as an advisor to Salmond is eroding that rapidly. If both sides are serious about keeping this cordial then rhetoric should be being condemned by campaign leaders, not perpetuated.
I saw a snide comment from Salmond the other day about Labour, so it isn't like he is working that hard to be cordial.
But glad we agree on the Guardian Beta being crap, and whatever happens on Thursday I sincerely wish for Mrs Pranker, yourself & baby [or rather toddler] Pranker to thrive in the country you love.
Last edited by yahyah on Tue 16 Sep, 2014 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
Haven't heard the speech, but I assume that was a joke? And tbf GB's use of humour has always been somewhat clunkyJackPranker wrote:I admired Brown in the past for being an honest man. Attributing "Kim Yong Il" as an advisor to Salmond is eroding that rapidly. If both sides are serious about keeping this cordial then rhetoric should be being condemned by campaign leaders, not perpetuated.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Tuesday 16th September 2014
I have to say, whichever side is doing it, heckling and deliberate attempts to stop people making speeches or addressing rallies doesn't feel good, or democratic.
Is that really 'vibrant democracy' at work ?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... rally.html
Is that really 'vibrant democracy' at work ?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... rally.html