Saturday 13th and Sunday 14th June 2015

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 3:52 pm

Government trying to fast-track fracking without public consent
Exclusive: The Government is bidding to change the rules so local residents are no longer consulted at the testing stage

TOM BAWDEN Author Biography ENVIRONMENT EDITOR
Thursday 11 June 2015
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 14634.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Okay - this is from only TWO DAYS ago & it frightens me.
This isn't okay, people, it's poison.
They'll make places uninhabitable fast.

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 3:57 pm

List of banks acquired or bankrupted during the Great Recession

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_b ... _Recession

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 4:28 pm

Michael Dugher MP, Labour’s Shadow Transport Secretary, responding to the report into Network Rail’s performance by the Office of Road and Rail, said:
“This report is not only a damning indictment of Network Rail, but of the Government’s performance too. Rail punctuality and investment targets have been missed, overall passenger satisfaction is declining and Network Rail has overspent its budget by over £200 million. Passengers have understandably had enough of the current flawed system, facing inflation busting fair rises of over 20 per cent since 2010 whilst services have been getting worse.

This week, the Government once again failed to deny that they were looking at breaking up and selling off parts of Network Rail, but the last thing we need now is yet more fragmentation and more privatisation. What we need is a new strategic body to improve co-ordination, a real passenger voice in how our railways are run and more public control, not less.”

JUNE 12, 2015 (12:47 PM)
http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1213447 ... ictment-of" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(my bold)

The voices of Labour party MPs the main stream media don't like don't get mentioned much in Tory news.
Please remember the Labour party Ed Miliband led a couple months ago hasn't disappeared.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 4:32 pm

Response to Osborne announcement on RBS
Chris Leslie MP, Labour’s Shadow Chancellor, said:
“Taxpayers who bailed out RBS want their money back in full and will rightly be suspicious of any rush to sell. When RBS is still restructuring the business, and awaiting a US settlement for the mis-selling of subprime mortgages, a premature sale poses a risk for taxpayers. It is highly dubious for the Chancellor to claim that significant losses on RBS are somehow acceptable because a gain can be made selling Lloyds or other completely separate assets. The Chancellor said two years ago that he would only countenance a sale of RBS when ‘the bank is fully able to support our economy and when we get good value’. Neither of these tests have yet been passed.”

JUNE 10, 2015 (11:37 PM)
http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1212224 ... ent-on-rbs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(my bold)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 5:23 pm

Frances O’Grady: ‘My members are the wealth creators, but don’t get a fair share’
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... h-creators" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just out on the G - Heather Stewart interview

"Faced with government attempts to curb union power, the TUC general secretary talks of her fears for the recovery, EU membership – and the future of unions"

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 5:47 pm

Off topic, but pictured Mr Ohso - short and dumpy - in some of these outfits...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/fashion- ... -SS16.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 5:51 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Off topic, but pictured Mr Ohso - short and dumpy - in some of these outfits...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/fashion- ... -SS16.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 5:51 pm

Three local council vacancies this week:

Wyre Forest DC - a deferred election from last month saw this three member ward return 2 Tory and 1 Labour councillors; Tories took the first and third spots but Labour missed out on the last seat by just three votes and slightly "won" the "total" vote due to the final Tory candidate performing relatively poorly. This is a new ward after boundary changes, though the bulk of it was one of Labour's better areas here in recent years and they had all three sitting councillors by 2014 (it takes in areas of two other former wards, one being very good for the localist Health Concern party and the other usually Tory, though a former councillor of theirs won for UKIP in 2014) Health Concern took third this time with over 20% overall, nearly outpolling UKIP by 2 to 1 - there is little doubt they will be disappointed with their showing here. A lone Green candidate brought up the rear (with less than 4% on "average" votes)

Sutton - LibDem hold in their first major electoral test since last month's national disaster (this ward is in the seat of the only remaining LibDem MP in the capital) and there was a pro-Tory swing in an area that has usually been fairly safe for the LibDems but never massively so, but it was not enough to win as both "main" parties here improved their performance on last year (the Tories by double figures) An independent candidate intervened this time and finished with over 6%, just a single vote behind the Labour candidate who saw their vote drop a bit since last year. Not as much as UKIP though as they crashed from 3rd last year (they even managed to beat 2 of the 3 Tory candidates then) to 5th now with their support down by over two thirds. Greens last with just over 4%, their poll also clearly down.

Tower Hamlets - apart from the (effectively) rerun Mayoral contest which attracted national attention, there was also a council vacancy after one of Rahman's henchmen was disqualified by the court rulings - and the resulting Labour gains from the "Rahmanist" group Tower Hamlets First means that Labour now have the smallest of majorities (23 seats out of 45) on the council to back up their newly elected executive mayor. A swing of about 10% in this contest saw Labour beat the de facto THF (but officially Independent, as in the mayoral election) hopeful - whilst boundary changes for the 2014 elections cloud things somewhat, this was one of the first areas to turn to first Respect and then Rahman so this was quite a significant result in its own right. The other candidates were all also rans who all saw their support down on last year, though they ultimately finished in the same order as then - Green 3rd, UKIP 4th, Tory 5th and LibDem 6th (down to less than 3% in what had once been a "flagship" borough for them, of course) A candidate standing for "Something New" saw their wishes somewhat unanswered this time round as they got the wooden spoon with just 1%.

Two contests next week - both deferred elections from 7 May.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 5:57 pm

Is this the new name for HSBC? Chairman says former brand Midland is ‘odds-on favourite’
Douglas Flint says name of bank bought by HSBC two decades ago could return to the high street

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... urite.html

A poisonous brand name indeed if they're thinking of changing it.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 6:02 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Off topic, but pictured Mr Ohso - short and dumpy - in some of these outfits...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/fashion- ... -SS16.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

indeed. How to make yourself look a right .... no matter what shape, size or age you are.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 6:14 pm

Justice Secretary Michael Gove is facing accusations this weekend of undermining the impartiality of Whitehall by appointing a wealthy Conservative donor and a close personal ally to his department

http://www.lbc.co.uk/gove-sparks-row-ov ... ent-111225

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 6:14 pm

I don't know if this is good or bad @RobertSnozers ? I just remember when the "NHS" and "Risk Assessment" were a jointly current topic!

Consultation on changes to the risk assessment framework: June 2015 (Monitor)

1. Introduction
The NHS faces a continuing and significant challenge to simultaneously improve quality, meet access targets and drive up productivity. Meeting this challenge means there can be no let-up in the pace and scale of change in provider organisations.

Last year was the first year that the foundation trust sector as a whole ended the year in deficit. 77 out of 152 trusts lost money. Although this year’s plans are more realistic than last year’s, they would result in a worse performance for the sector. Put simply, this is unaffordable.

Given this challenging context we are proposing a number of measures to strengthen our regulatory regime so that we can help foundation trusts live within their means and support improvements in financial efficiency across the sector.

These measures include proposed changes to the risk assessment framework and the NHS foundation trust accounting officer memorandum described in this consultation document. We are proposing these changes to enable us to take regulatory action earlier if a foundation trust is in deficit, failing to deliver its financial plan, or not providing value for money.

This consultation seeks views from interested parties and stakeholders on the proposed changes. Please respond to the consultation by 5pm on 1 July 2015. See section 3 for more details.

The risk assessment changes outlined in this document apply to foundation trusts only.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ne2015.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... -june-2015

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 6:16 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:
Justice Secretary Michael Gove is facing accusations this weekend of undermining the impartiality of Whitehall by appointing a wealthy Conservative donor and a close personal ally to his department
http://www.lbc.co.uk/gove-sparks-row-ov ... ent-111225

It's Sir Theodore Agnew!

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 6:17 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Government trying to fast-track fracking without public consent
Exclusive: The Government is bidding to change the rules so local residents are no longer consulted at the testing stage

TOM BAWDEN Author Biography ENVIRONMENT EDITOR
Thursday 11 June 2015
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 14634.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Okay - this is from only TWO DAYS ago & it frightens me.
This isn't okay, people, it's poison.
They'll make places uninhabitable fast.

Here's the link to the consultation document – I posted it at stupid o'clock the other day and meant to re-post but forgot:
https://consult.environment-agency.gov. ... 9248829504

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 6:22 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:
Justice Secretary Michael Gove is facing accusations this weekend of undermining the impartiality of Whitehall by appointing a wealthy Conservative donor and a close personal ally to his department
http://www.lbc.co.uk/gove-sparks-row-ov ... ent-111225

I expect that these are the type of "business people" which "some people" say it is essential that the Labour Party should nurture, suck up to and generally pamper, caress and lick. (please excuse my vulgarity)

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 6:27 pm

Robert is taking a break from here, giselle. Hopefully not permanently.......

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 6:27 pm

giselle97 wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:
Justice Secretary Michael Gove is facing accusations this weekend of undermining the impartiality of Whitehall by appointing a wealthy Conservative donor and a close personal ally to his department
http://www.lbc.co.uk/gove-sparks-row-ov ... ent-111225
I expect that these are the type of "business people" which "some people" say it is essential that the Labour Party should nurture, suck up to and generally pamper, caress and lick. (please excuse my vulgarity)

It isn't in this case. It's a financier who set up Policy Exchange. The people Gove kicked off sound like more mainstream business figures.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 6:34 pm

O'Grady:
“I think once Labour was caught in the headlights of deficit reduction as the only game in town, it was going to become progressively more difficult to convince people that, actually, the real problems the country faces are about investment, productivity and delivering higher-skilled jobs and higher living standards, so that everybody gets a share in growth.”

I agree with you, O'Grady.
Changing expensive narratives owned by people with power & funding is tough work.

From the article:
Instead of conceding, as several of the main candidates for the Labour leadership have – including Andy Burnham and Liz Kendall – that the party spent too much in the runup to the financial crisis...

Wrong.
Andy Burnham did not say Labour spent too much.
I don't know if it's Stewart or O'Grady's mistake.
That quote isn't true.

...O’Grady says Labour should have been bold enough to rubbish the idea that the catastrophic economic downturn was caused by Labour’s loose grip on the purse strings.

Not 'bold enough'?
Is that what's preventing Labour leaders from making sure the truth about Labour's spending didn't cause the global financial crisis in 2007-08?

O'Grady:
“The very idea that it was spending on Sure Start children’s centres that brought down the economy is clearly nonsense, and Labour should have been a little bit more self-confident and said: ‘We’re not going to play to your tune: here’s what we think needs to happen to build a fairer economy’.”

I wholeheartedly agree Labour's Sure Start centres didn't cause the global financial crisis like O'Grady says here.
How can Labour having a little bit more self-confidence be the answer to profoundly inaccurate information being regularly trotted out as truth?
Can Labour's inability to counter lies in the media be due to lack of self-confidence & docility?
Is it related to 'Ed Miliband is weak'?

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 6:38 pm

Question the Powerful

http://henry-tam.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05 ... iness.html

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 6:38 pm

Umunna conceded they'd spent to much in the run up to the Crash. They did if you take those years in isolation, a bit, but not if you factor in the very austere earlier years.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 6:39 pm

giselle97 wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:
Justice Secretary Michael Gove is facing accusations this weekend of undermining the impartiality of Whitehall by appointing a wealthy Conservative donor and a close personal ally to his department
http://www.lbc.co.uk/gove-sparks-row-ov ... ent-111225
I expect that these are the type of "business people" which "some people" say it is essential that the Labour Party should nurture, suck up to and generally pamper, caress and lick. (please excuse my vulgarity)

Spat mi tea

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 7:02 pm

The same week that Texas Governor Greg Abbott signed a bill stripping local communities of their ability to control the oil and gas industry, a fracking well exploded in south Texas, spraying a toxic mix of chemicals and forcing the evacuation of 20 families.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jesse-col ... _ref=green

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 7:04 pm

giselle97 wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:
Justice Secretary Michael Gove is facing accusations this weekend of undermining the impartiality of Whitehall by appointing a wealthy Conservative donor and a close personal ally to his department
http://www.lbc.co.uk/gove-sparks-row-ov ... ent-111225
I expect that these are the type of "business people" which "some people" say it is essential that the Labour Party should nurture, suck up to and generally pamper, caress and lick. (please excuse my vulgarity)

Ewww. Think Gove.

No --- on second thoughts please don't.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 7:04 pm

The London Labour Party has today announced the shortlist for Labour’s candidate to fight the London mayoral election in 2016.
The shortlisted candidates are:

Diane Abbott
Tessa Jowell
Sadiq Khan
David Lammy
Gareth Thomas
Christian Wolmar

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1214239 ... e-mayor-of

As with the leadership and deputy-leadership contests, supporters can register to vote for Labour's Mayoral hopefuls – but, in this case, it only applies to London residents.

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 7:04 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Robert is taking a break from here, giselle. Hopefully not permanently.......

Oh!

Thanks Anatoly.

Hope @RobertSnozers returns soon.

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 7:17 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
giselle97 wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote: http://www.lbc.co.uk/gove-sparks-row-ov ... ent-111225
I expect that these are the type of "business people" which "some people" say it is essential that the Labour Party should nurture, suck up to and generally pamper, caress and lick. (please excuse my vulgarity)
It isn't in this case. It's a financier who set up Policy Exchange. The people Gove kicked off sound like more mainstream business figures.

No Tubby. I see what you mean of course. Agnew obviously has admirable business criteria for being a independent Whitehall contributor, especially since he founded a private equity firm, one of the prerequisites of tory donorship and sponsorship!

Outside of the department, Theodore founded Somerton Capital LLP in 2007 and co-founded the WNS Group (a US listed company) in 1990. Theodore is trustee of Policy Exchange.
After spending 10 years in Australia founded Town & Country Assistance in 1989. Grew this business to annual gross revenues of £40mill pa and sold it to Warburg Pincus in 2002. Theodore then became a co founder of WNS Global Services. Theodore is currently a non-executive director of Jubilee Managing Agency Ltd a Lloyd’s insurance business managing £130mill of premiums. Trustee of Policy Exchange, a Westminster based Think Tank.

giselle97 · Post by **giselle97** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 7:30 pm

I've got 12 tabs open. I don't know if this one came from FTN, so sorry if it's a repeat!

What makes something qualify as a seriously bad idea? In general, to sound serious it must invoke big causes to explain big events — technical matters, like the troubles caused by sharing a currency without a common budget, don’t make the cut. It must also absolve corporate interests and the wealthy from responsibility for what went wrong, and call for hard choices and sacrifice on the part of the little people.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/12/op ... 4&referrer

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 7:30 pm

Theodore bloody Agnew again - no wonder he left the DfE just before the election.

And there was me thinking that maybe he'd been told that his services weren't required - should have known he just be following Gove into his new job.

Jobs for the PX boys.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 7:41 pm

This evening I have been making bread. I often pick a politician to focus on as I bash the dough around. Tonight it was Michael Gove. What a face to think about as you pull out the dough fold it over itself and then punch your fist down into it ... repeating as often as required, for as long as you like. I can recommend this to anyone suffering from pent up politically induced stress.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 7:44 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:This evening I have been making bread. I often pick a politician to focus on as I bash the dough around. Tonight it was Michael Gove. What a face to think about as you pull out the dough fold it over itself and then punch your fist down into it ... repeating as often as required, for as long as you like. I can recommend this to anyone suffering from pent up politically induced stress.

Just as long as you don't try to suck up to, or lick it

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 7:53 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:This evening I have been making bread. I often pick a politician to focus on as I bash the dough around. Tonight it was Michael Gove. What a face to think about as you pull out the dough fold it over itself and then punch your fist down into it ... repeating as often as required, for as long as you like. I can recommend this to anyone suffering from pent up politically induced stress.
Just as long as you don't try to suck up to, or lick it

Nah worries about that Ohso - I put it into a hot oven to finish it off. (Mrs Gove is welcome to be the only one to suck up to or lick Mr Gove).

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 7:55 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Theodore bloody Agnew again - no wonder he left the DfE just before the election.

And there was me thinking that maybe he'd been told that his services weren't required - should have known he just be following Gove into his new job.

Jobs for the PX boys.

Indeed.

What's he after in the DoJ, do you think?

It's a low spending department.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 8:00 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Theodore bloody Agnew again - no wonder he left the DfE just before the election.

And there was me thinking that maybe he'd been told that his services weren't required - should have known he just be following Gove into his new job.

Jobs for the PX boys.

Indeed.

What's he after in the DoJ, do you think?

It's a low spending department.

Free Prisons.

Locals allowed to set up and run their own jail.

When I say "locals" I mean "anyone but locals".

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 8:05 pm

Anne Begg retweeted
Kevin Hague ‏@kevverage 1h1 hour ago
New blog on why the SNP's position on FFA is completely ludicrous.

You'll want to read this one I think.

http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/0 ... rowth.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 8:07 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Theodore bloody Agnew again - no wonder he left the DfE just before the election.

And there was me thinking that maybe he'd been told that his services weren't required - should have known he just be following Gove into his new job.

Jobs for the PX boys.

Indeed.

What's he after in the DoJ, do you think?

It's a low spending department.
Free Prisons.

Locals allowed to set up and run their own jail.

When I say "locals" I mean "anyone but locals".

We really are going back to the wild West model then. Buy a badge - slap it on your chest and declare yourself Sheriff of this here municipality and everybody dun do as I say.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 8:14 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Government trying to fast-track fracking without public consent
Exclusive: The Government is bidding to change the rules so local residents are no longer consulted at the testing stage

TOM BAWDEN Author Biography ENVIRONMENT EDITOR
Thursday 11 June 2015
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 14634.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Okay - this is from only TWO DAYS ago & it frightens me.
This isn't okay, people, it's poison.
They'll make places uninhabitable fast.
Here's the link to the consultation document – I posted it at stupid o'clock the other day and meant to re-post but forgot:
https://consult.environment-agency.gov. ... 9248829504

Please read this, people, I know it's long but I think it's important.

Better Regulation Delivery Office
Better Business for All:
Review of Progress
May 2015

"The Government is committed to lifting the regulatory burdens on businesses and
creating a local regulatory environment that helps to support business growth. This is of
particular importance for small business as they often do not have access to in-house
technical expertise and can also save time and money for local authorities. The Better
Business for All (BBfA) programme is an established approach to better regulation. It
provides a model for partnership working between businesses and regulators focusing
on changing the culture of regulatory delivery at a local level. It encourages all parties to
work together and share information to allow local economies to prosper and grow.

BBfA has initiated real culture change. It has enabled regulators to understand business
and tailor their services to meet business need.

A key outcome of the programme has been the development of productive relationships
both between regulators and between business and regulators. Through this enhanced
understanding of each other’s role and pressures trust has developed and as a result
improvements are being made which benefit all involved.

Local authority planning services were not included in the original scope of BBfA. As the
planning process is seen by many businesses as a barrier to growth, these are services
that could benefit from becoming involved. Yet to date those programmes that have tried
to engage with planning services have found it extremely difficult."

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... ogress.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(my bold)

"It has enabled regulators to understand business and tailor their services to meet business need."
I beg your pardon?
Regulators are to 'tailor their services to meet business need'?
I'm frightened.
Current government are crazy people, no joke.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 8:27 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
The same week that Texas Governor Greg Abbott signed a bill stripping local communities of their ability to control the oil and gas industry, a fracking well exploded in south Texas, spraying a toxic mix of chemicals and forcing the evacuation of 20 families.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jesse-col ... _ref=green

I've no doubt Stoke is next to go boom.
I'm terrified of current government.
They don't care.
They don't care who they destroy.
Current government are disconnected - crazy, lunatic gaps in their critical thinking skills are missing - generally speaking, Tory front bench are made up of people who've never been taught things that matter. Things like if you do this to the ground, soil, rock & water table, those resources are contaminated & the area needs to be evacuated so more people don't die. That area is no longer fit for use for anyone. The environment is an abstraction to many in current government. A suspicious, left-wing sort of word, environment - Tory think, I can do what I want - I always have & I'm still standing, right?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 8:37 pm

I heard a very disturbing and upsetting story this week. A friend's adult son was caught shoplifting in our local town a few months ago. It was while he was having a high episode - he is bi-polar. It was his first and only offence - he was apprehended immediately, offered no resistance, and wasn't charged. Imagine my friend and her son's distress when they were visited by two policemen recently to say that they were serving an order for 3 months under the local 'SABB' scheme. SABB stands for Shoplift And Be Banned. The 'community' police officers have set up this scheme with local shops who sign up to it. They can then ban the person from entering any shops in the scheme for a period of time of their choosing. There is no hearing - no right of representation - no information given - no involvement of CPNs, other medical professionals, advocates or any legal jurisdiction or redress.

He has been banned from every shop that sells food in the town - and, almost worse, every chemist so he can no longer get his prescriptions filled.

My friend asked the police officers what he was supposed to do to buy food. They said he should shop online. He doesn't have access to the internet - he can't afford it and he couldn't manage it. My friend asked what he was supposed to do to get his medications. He should - apparently - stand outside the relevant shop and attract the attention of / make himself known to a member of staff and deal with them outside on the pavement.

His CPN is horrified. My friend is horrified. I am horrified. Needless to say my friend isn't leaving it there and has written to as many relevant people as possible. She says this is clearly a scheme intended for repeat offenders and has been very unfairly applied to her son - but it seems to be completely outside of any proper jurisdiction - lacking any means of representation or appeal for the person who is punished, disregarding health and personal circumstances, and any basic civil rights and liberties.

Her son - as a result of this experience - is now extremely depressed and has been in bed unable to function for days.

The police officer took pride in telling my friend that they hoped to get every single shop in the town signed up to this scheme soon.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 8:57 pm

: SNP Be On Message At All Times.jpg (27.42 KiB) Viewed 14886 times

David Maddox retweeted
Red Scotland ‏@WomensVanguard 2h2 hours ago
SNP telling their MP's to stay on message at all times.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 8:59 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:I heard a very disturbing and upsetting story this week. A friend's adult son was caught shoplifting in our local town a few months ago. It was while he was having a high episode - he is bi-polar. It was his first and only offence - he was apprehended immediately, offered no resistance, and wasn't charged. Imagine my friend and her son's distress when they were visited by two policemen recently to say that they were serving an order for 3 months under the local 'SABB' scheme. SABB stands for Shoplift And Be Banned. The 'community' police officers have set up this scheme with local shops who sign up to it. They can then ban the person from entering any shops in the scheme for a period of time of their choosing. There is no hearing - no right of representation - no information given - no involvement of CPNs, other medical professionals, advocates or any legal jurisdiction or redress.

He has been banned from every shop that sells food in the town - and, almost worse, every chemist so he can no longer get his prescriptions filled.

My friend asked the police officers what he was supposed to do to buy food. They said he should shop online. He doesn't have access to the internet - he can't afford it and he couldn't manage it. My friend asked what he was supposed to do to get his medications. He should - apparently - stand outside the relevant shop and attract the attention of / make himself known to a member of staff and deal with them outside on the pavement.

His CPN is horrified. My friend is horrified. I am horrified. Needless to say my friend isn't leaving it there and has written to as many relevant people as possible. She says this is clearly a scheme intended for repeat offenders and has been very unfairly applied to her son - but it seems to be completely outside of any proper jurisdiction - lacking any means of representation or appeal for the person who is punished, disregarding health and personal circumstances, and any basic civil rights and liberties.

Her son - as a result of this experience - is now extremely depressed and has been in bed unable to function for days.

The police officer took pride in telling my friend that they hoped to get every single shop in the town signed up to this scheme soon.

What happens if the person enters a shop during the banned period? What is the consequence? How do the shops keep track of people banned in this way if they're not well known repeat offenders? I just struggle to see how such a scheme could possibly be policed. And that's before you even get to the dubious legality. Shops are covered by the discrimination act - I don't think it would be legal to bar someone because you thought they may have shoplifted. If the shop failed to prosecute, he has never been proved to have shoplifted, surely?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 9:00 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote: Indeed.

What's he after in the DoJ, do you think?

It's a low spending department.
Free Prisons.

Locals allowed to set up and run their own jail.

When I say "locals" I mean "anyone but locals".
We really are going back to the wild West model then. Buy a badge - slap it on your chest and declare yourself Sheriff of this here municipality and everybody dun do as I say.

Seems to me they're pushing us into the American model. Locally elected 'sheriff', and local police departments.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 9:01 pm

Willow904 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:I heard a very disturbing and upsetting story this week. A friend's adult son was caught shoplifting in our local town a few months ago. It was while he was having a high episode - he is bi-polar. It was his first and only offence - he was apprehended immediately, offered no resistance, and wasn't charged. Imagine my friend and her son's distress when they were visited by two policemen recently to say that they were serving an order for 3 months under the local 'SABB' scheme. SABB stands for Shoplift And Be Banned. The 'community' police officers have set up this scheme with local shops who sign up to it. They can then ban the person from entering any shops in the scheme for a period of time of their choosing. There is no hearing - no right of representation - no information given - no involvement of CPNs, other medical professionals, advocates or any legal jurisdiction or redress.

He has been banned from every shop that sells food in the town - and, almost worse, every chemist so he can no longer get his prescriptions filled.

My friend asked the police officers what he was supposed to do to buy food. They said he should shop online. He doesn't have access to the internet - he can't afford it and he couldn't manage it. My friend asked what he was supposed to do to get his medications. He should - apparently - stand outside the relevant shop and attract the attention of / make himself known to a member of staff and deal with them outside on the pavement.

His CPN is horrified. My friend is horrified. I am horrified. Needless to say my friend isn't leaving it there and has written to as many relevant people as possible. She says this is clearly a scheme intended for repeat offenders and has been very unfairly applied to her son - but it seems to be completely outside of any proper jurisdiction - lacking any means of representation or appeal for the person who is punished, disregarding health and personal circumstances, and any basic civil rights and liberties.

Her son - as a result of this experience - is now extremely depressed and has been in bed unable to function for days.

The police officer took pride in telling my friend that they hoped to get every single shop in the town signed up to this scheme soon.
What happens if the person enters a shop during the banned period? What is the consequence? How do the shops keep track of people banned in this way if they're not well known repeat offenders? I just struggle to see how such a scheme could possibly be policed. And that's before you even get to the dubious legality. Shops are covered by the discrimination act - I don't think it would be legal to bar someone because you thought they may have shoplifted. If the shop failed to prosecute, he has never been proved to have shoplifted, surely?

I agree with all your questions Willow. It stinks on every level. Policing isn't a devolved matter in Wales. Health is. Discrimination legislation obviously applies here. But it's a really strange set up - who do you complain to? I think she's written to the PCC, MP and various others.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 9:05 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:I heard a very disturbing and upsetting story this week. A friend's adult son was caught shoplifting in our local town a few months ago. It was while he was having a high episode - he is bi-polar. It was his first and only offence - he was apprehended immediately, offered no resistance, and wasn't charged. Imagine my friend and her son's distress when they were visited by two policemen recently to say that they were serving an order for 3 months under the local 'SABB' scheme. SABB stands for Shoplift And Be Banned. The 'community' police officers have set up this scheme with local shops who sign up to it. They can then ban the person from entering any shops in the scheme for a period of time of their choosing. There is no hearing - no right of representation - no information given - no involvement of CPNs, other medical professionals, advocates or any legal jurisdiction or redress.

He has been banned from every shop that sells food in the town - and, almost worse, every chemist so he can no longer get his prescriptions filled.

My friend asked the police officers what he was supposed to do to buy food. They said he should shop online. He doesn't have access to the internet - he can't afford it and he couldn't manage it. My friend asked what he was supposed to do to get his medications. He should - apparently - stand outside the relevant shop and attract the attention of / make himself known to a member of staff and deal with them outside on the pavement.

His CPN is horrified. My friend is horrified. I am horrified. Needless to say my friend isn't leaving it there and has written to as many relevant people as possible. She says this is clearly a scheme intended for repeat offenders and has been very unfairly applied to her son - but it seems to be completely outside of any proper jurisdiction - lacking any means of representation or appeal for the person who is punished, disregarding health and personal circumstances, and any basic civil rights and liberties.

Her son - as a result of this experience - is now extremely depressed and has been in bed unable to function for days.

The police officer took pride in telling my friend that they hoped to get every single shop in the town signed up to this scheme soon.

Accept my thoughts of loving-kindness to your people & community, RR2.
xx
cJA

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 9:08 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
Free Prisons.

Locals allowed to set up and run their own jail.

When I say "locals" I mean "anyone but locals".

Ha ha.

Privatized prisons are quite hard work politically though, and there are already established firms with a headstart. He got in relatively early with schools.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 9:09 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
SNP Be On Message At All Times.jpg

David Maddox retweeted
Red Scotland ‏@WomensVanguard 2h2 hours ago
SNP telling their MP's to stay on message at all times.

Please tweet SNP MPs to diligently represent the people, constituencies & country they've been elected to serve to the best of their ability.

Tonibel · Post by **Tonibel** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 9:34 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:This evening I have been making bread. I often pick a politician to focus on as I bash the dough around. Tonight it was Michael Gove. What a face to think about as you pull out the dough fold it over itself and then punch your fist down into it ... repeating as often as required, for as long as you like. I can recommend this to anyone suffering from pent up politically induced stress.

Thanks for that Rebecca. Too tired now but I might make some bread (D Miliband) tomorrow, if it's still raining.

Tonibel · Post by **Tonibel** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 9:41 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:I heard a very disturbing and upsetting story this week. A friend's adult son was caught shoplifting in our local town a few months ago. It was while he was having a high episode - he is bi-polar. It was his first and only offence - he was apprehended immediately, offered no resistance, and wasn't charged. Imagine my friend and her son's distress when they were visited by two policemen recently to say that they were serving an order for 3 months under the local 'SABB' scheme. SABB stands for Shoplift And Be Banned. The 'community' police officers have set up this scheme with local shops who sign up to it. They can then ban the person from entering any shops in the scheme for a period of time of their choosing. There is no hearing - no right of representation - no information given - no involvement of CPNs, other medical professionals, advocates or any legal jurisdiction or redress.

He has been banned from every shop that sells food in the town - and, almost worse, every chemist so he can no longer get his prescriptions filled.

My friend asked the police officers what he was supposed to do to buy food. They said he should shop online. He doesn't have access to the internet - he can't afford it and he couldn't manage it. My friend asked what he was supposed to do to get his medications. He should - apparently - stand outside the relevant shop and attract the attention of / make himself known to a member of staff and deal with them outside on the pavement.

His CPN is horrified. My friend is horrified. I am horrified. Needless to say my friend isn't leaving it there and has written to as many relevant people as possible. She says this is clearly a scheme intended for repeat offenders and has been very unfairly applied to her son - but it seems to be completely outside of any proper jurisdiction - lacking any means of representation or appeal for the person who is punished, disregarding health and personal circumstances, and any basic civil rights and liberties.

Her son - as a result of this experience - is now extremely depressed and has been in bed unable to function for days.

The police officer took pride in telling my friend that they hoped to get every single shop in the town signed up to this scheme soon.

Maybe you should get our local Police and Crime Commissioner involved. He doesn't seem to have much else to do. His election was the first time ever I've never voted (spoiled my ballot, but not with a sketch of a penis)

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 10:18 pm

What?

Jonathan Simons ‏@PXEducation 5m5 minutes ago
So @odysseanproject is to lead the No to EU campaign acc to Sunday Times

Nick Linford ‏@NickLinford 2m2 minutes ago
@PXEducation @odysseanproject cunning ploy to use Cummings to ensure a yes majority?!

Indeed.

However, he led the No campaign against regional government in the NE some years back...even so, most people who've heard of him will think he's bonkers.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 10:44 pm

Tim Shipman ‏@ShippersUnbound 17m17 minutes ago
Labour MPs and Top donor John Mills will launch Labour for Britain eurosceptic group early this week. Sceptic forces now massing

Tim Shipman ‏@ShippersUnbound 18m18 minutes ago
Conservatives for Britain now has backing of 110 MPs and ministers have privately signed up too. 13 peers and 13 MEPs on board too

Tim Shipman ‏@ShippersUnbound 22m22 minutes ago
Former Gove adviser Dominic Cummings has been drafted in to help set up No campaign to quit EU. See Sunday Times

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 13 Jun, 2015 10:45 pm

Tim Shipman ‏@ShippersUnbound 13m13 minutes ago
"Phase 2" of Dave's renegotiation strategy will see EU and UK officials launch technical work on each of Cameron's demands

Tim Shipman ‏@ShippersUnbound 16m16 minutes ago
Cameron will try to calm EU tensions by announcing "phase 2" of renegotiation starts at summit on June 25. See Sunday Times

Tim Shipman ‏@ShippersUnbound 17m17 minutes ago
Yes campaign on EU will try to recruit Jim Messina to run the campaign sources tell me. See Sunday Times