Friday 19th June 2015
Posted: Fri 19 Jun, 2015 4:58 am
Morning.
Doing some catching up.
Frank Field Chair DWP Select Committee.
Doing some catching up.
Frank Field Chair DWP Select Committee.
Morning AH. Nice to see you.HindleA wrote:Morning.
Doing some catching up.
Frank Field Chair DWP Select Committee.
Perhaps he'll surprise us.HindleA wrote:Morning.
Doing some catching up.
Frank Field Chair DWP Select Committee.
Our daughter will turn 16, this year,LadyCentauria,in t'wee small hrs wrote: The Lords might get an amendment through (on EU citizens resident here,
too) but the Govt. could drop any amendment by final reading. One of the
things that seriously pissed me orf in the debate, today, was the number
of Tory MPs who stood up and said either that they supported or had
sympathy for the argument of votes at 16 but not yet – or that it was so
important that it deserved a separate debate rather than being a one-off
for the Referendum after a rushed debate on an amendment.
Lord make me pure but not yet. Emancipation Now but not just yet...
Well, Barry Sheerman peed me orf, too, with his claim that 16/17 yr olds
shouldn't get the vote because they're vulnerable and need protection
from sexual abuse. I cannot see the connection between the two things.
All sorts of people of all ages are vulnerable to sexual abuse – having a
vote has nothing to do with it.
The issue referred to may be the publication of 16/17 year-olds names and addresses on the voters' register.tinybgoat wrote:Our daughter will turn 16, this year,LadyCentauria,in t'wee small hrs wrote: The Lords might get an amendment through (on EU citizens resident here,
too) but the Govt. could drop any amendment by final reading. One of the
things that seriously pissed me orf in the debate, today, was the number
of Tory MPs who stood up and said either that they supported or had
sympathy for the argument of votes at 16 but not yet – or that it was so
important that it deserved a separate debate rather than being a one-off
for the Referendum after a rushed debate on an amendment.
Lord make me pure but not yet. Emancipation Now but not just yet...
Well, Barry Sheerman peed me orf, too, with his claim that 16/17 yr olds
shouldn't get the vote because they're vulnerable and need protection
from sexual abuse. I cannot see the connection between the two things.
All sorts of people of all ages are vulnerable to sexual abuse – having a
vote has nothing to do with it.
and only reason I can think of for not letting 16 yr olds vote is protecting the status quo, they're an angry lot!
I can see there might be an abuse issue,
local polling stations here are:
Church hall, (also used for toddlers groups),
Primary School,(also contains teachers, all crb checked, but can't be too safe)
Letting Agency, (near a chip shop!)
Actually think the one near chip shop may be temporary, it was previously on the bowling green (next to playground! Arrgh!).
Hopefully Lords will give 2 fingers to the Salisbury Convention, on this one.
According to DWP 64,000 people have clamied UC as of March of this year. Bearing in mind UC has initially rolled out to those recently unemployed, many of the 64,000 would have returned to work within a few months so how many are still on UC is impossible to extrapolate, it depends whether they still qualified for housing benefit and working tax credits while working, I suppose. What I do know is that moving in with a boyfriend/ girlfriend on UC could mean you are at risk of losing your own HB and WTC if in low paid work - an extra stress for low-paid relationships which will change social dynamics in unpredictable ways. I saw on the tv a couple from Bristol who had been affected in this way, although their main complaint was that there had been a delay in the UC payment. There's been quite a bit on sanctions of late but next to nothing about payment delays where people who qualify for benefit, have complied 100% but are still facing long periods without payments. I'd like to see more on this in the press, as this is reflective of DWP failure which IDS needs to be held accountable for and is quite separate from the moral issue of sanctions.giselle97 wrote:Morning Willow. I don't know how few of the millions needing support have actually been put on UC but the last comment I read from Ephemerid, either here or at the G, indicated it was a miniscule number!
The other "positive" might be it makes more clear that simply trying to out-"b***ard" the right on stuff like immigration will always be a mug's game.giselle97 wrote:There is a positive of sorts in Thorning-Schmidt’s loss. We won't see any more shots of Cameron doing shameful, comedic contortions to try and get in on a selfie with her.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=camer ... gws_rd=ssl
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 98090.html
The rationalisation point is a good one. We let 17 year olds drive cars. The idea that it would be irresponsible to let them vote in the light of this is laughable. The question we should be asking is do we feel other activities such as driving, going out to work, getting married etc should be raised to 18? If no, it's hard to argue voting has to remain at 18. As for the electoral register, aren't 17 year olds already on in prep for turning 18? Is the concern that 15 year olds would be listed similarly? Would it really be impossible to exempt under-18's being listed on the public roll? Has the sky fallen in in Scotland because 16 year olds put their names on a list? I'm not actually strongly for or against, tbh. The only thing about voting at 16 that appeals would be if young people had citizenship classes at school to teach them about the importance of democracy and their responsibility to vote. Without such education, I don't see the reduction of the voting age particularly significant either way although on balance I do feel there are solid arguments for a special one off for the EU referendum and certainly should be debated as part of it rather than separately.Eric_WLothian wrote:The issue referred to may be the publication of 16/17 year-olds names and addresses on the voters' register.tinybgoat wrote:Our daughter will turn 16, this year,LadyCentauria,in t'wee small hrs wrote: The Lords might get an amendment through (on EU citizens resident here,
too) but the Govt. could drop any amendment by final reading. One of the
things that seriously pissed me orf in the debate, today, was the number
of Tory MPs who stood up and said either that they supported or had
sympathy for the argument of votes at 16 but not yet – or that it was so
important that it deserved a separate debate rather than being a one-off
for the Referendum after a rushed debate on an amendment.
Lord make me pure but not yet. Emancipation Now but not just yet...
Well, Barry Sheerman peed me orf, too, with his claim that 16/17 yr olds
shouldn't get the vote because they're vulnerable and need protection
from sexual abuse. I cannot see the connection between the two things.
All sorts of people of all ages are vulnerable to sexual abuse – having a
vote has nothing to do with it.
and only reason I can think of for not letting 16 yr olds vote is protecting the status quo, they're an angry lot!
I can see there might be an abuse issue,
local polling stations here are:
Church hall, (also used for toddlers groups),
Primary School,(also contains teachers, all crb checked, but can't be too safe)
Letting Agency, (near a chip shop!)
Actually think the one near chip shop may be temporary, it was previously on the bowling green (next to playground! Arrgh!).
Hopefully Lords will give 2 fingers to the Salisbury Convention, on this one.
In the EU, only Austria has a voting age of 16 (though interestingly, outside the EU, so do the Channel Islands and Isle of Man). The vast majority of countries in the world specify 18.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... /2123.html
I know I wasn't in the least interested in politics at 16 - and neither was anybody I knew. Maybe that's changed. Imo if the voting age is to be altered, it should be as part of a rationalisation of age-criteria such as smoking, drinking, driving, legal issues, employment - the list is endless. (And the proposed 'state guardian' in Scotland).
A lot of kids were interested in politicsEric_WLothian wrote:The issue referred to may be the publication of 16/17 year-olds names and addresses on the voters' register.tinybgoat wrote:Our daughter will turn 16, this year,LadyCentauria,in t'wee small hrs wrote: The Lords might get an amendment through (on EU citizens resident here,
too) but the Govt. could drop any amendment by final reading. One of the
things that seriously pissed me orf in the debate, today, was the number
of Tory MPs who stood up and said either that they supported or had
sympathy for the argument of votes at 16 but not yet – or that it was so
important that it deserved a separate debate rather than being a one-off
for the Referendum after a rushed debate on an amendment.
Lord make me pure but not yet. Emancipation Now but not just yet...
Well, Barry Sheerman peed me orf, too, with his claim that 16/17 yr olds
shouldn't get the vote because they're vulnerable and need protection
from sexual abuse. I cannot see the connection between the two things.
All sorts of people of all ages are vulnerable to sexual abuse – having a
vote has nothing to do with it.
and only reason I can think of for not letting 16 yr olds vote is protecting the status quo, they're an angry lot!
I can see there might be an abuse issue,
local polling stations here are:
Church hall, (also used for toddlers groups),
Primary School,(also contains teachers, all crb checked, but can't be too safe)
Letting Agency, (near a chip shop!)
Actually think the one near chip shop may be temporary, it was previously on the bowling green (next to playground! Arrgh!).
Hopefully Lords will give 2 fingers to the Salisbury Convention, on this one.
In the EU, only Austria has a voting age of 16 (though interestingly, outside the EU, so do the Channel Islands and Isle of Man). The vast majority of countries in the world specify 18.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... /2123.html
I know I wasn't in the least interested in politics at 16 - and neither was anybody I knew. Maybe that's changed. Imo if the voting age is to be altered, it should be as part of a rationalisation of age-criteria such as smoking, drinking, driving, legal issues, employment - the list is endless. (And the proposed 'state guardian' in Scotland).
The various age limits are only arbitrary numbers - but there has to be a cut-off point somewhere. I'm sure there are many 16 year-olds who are savvy enough to weigh up the arguments and make their own decision. Equally, there are many 18+ year-olds who blindly follow the Sun.Willow904 wrote:The rationalisation point is a good one. We let 17 year olds drive cars. The idea that it would be irresponsible to let them vote in the light of this is laughable. The question we should be asking is do we feel other activities such as driving, going out to work, getting married etc should be raised to 18? If no, it's hard to argue voting has to remain at 18. As for the electoral register, aren't 17 year olds already on in prep for turning 18? Is the concern that 15 year olds would be listed similarly? Would it really be impossible to exempt under-18's being listed on the public roll? Has the sky fallen in in Scotland because 16 year olds put their names on a list? I'm not actually strongly for or against, tbh. The only thing about voting at 16 that appeals would be if young people had citizenship classes at school to teach them about the importance of democracy and their responsibility to vote. Without such education, I don't see the reduction of the voting age particularly significant either way although on balance I do feel there are solid arguments for a special one off for the EU referendum and certainly should be debated as part of it rather than separately.
Ah well, you youngsters had a different education to me. We didn't have pretend elections when I were a lad.tinybgoat wrote:A lot of kids were interested in politics
(or at least, 'current affairs'), when I was 16 (early 80s), though maybe our views were nieve, and possibly still are.
Our kids schools both held pretend elections, - although oldest child, disagreed with idea.
Labour won in both
I think it's a good idea to let 16/17 year olds vote, at an age when a lot of them will still be in education,
& the principle of importance voting can be got across too them.
Suppose opposite view would be that they're too open to influence by teachers/parents at that age.
Maybe it should be part of wider rationalisation, but think that way it will never happen.
"Everyone else is doing it, so why can't we?"Eric_WLothian wrote:The various age limits are only arbitrary numbers - but there has to be a cut-off point somewhere. I'm sure there are many 16 year-olds who are savvy enough to weigh up the arguments and make their own decision. Equally, there are many 18+ year-olds who blindly follow the Sun.Willow904 wrote:The rationalisation point is a good one. We let 17 year olds drive cars. The idea that it would be irresponsible to let them vote in the light of this is laughable. The question we should be asking is do we feel other activities such as driving, going out to work, getting married etc should be raised to 18? If no, it's hard to argue voting has to remain at 18. As for the electoral register, aren't 17 year olds already on in prep for turning 18? Is the concern that 15 year olds would be listed similarly? Would it really be impossible to exempt under-18's being listed on the public roll? Has the sky fallen in in Scotland because 16 year olds put their names on a list? I'm not actually strongly for or against, tbh. The only thing about voting at 16 that appeals would be if young people had citizenship classes at school to teach them about the importance of democracy and their responsibility to vote. Without such education, I don't see the reduction of the voting age particularly significant either way although on balance I do feel there are solid arguments for a special one off for the EU referendum and certainly should be debated as part of it rather than separately.
The trouble is, I don't recall seeing a valid argument for changing, other than "a say in their future" - which could be applied to any age.
My 4-year old granddaughter wants to do everything her 11-year old sister does. That doesn't mean she can, or should.tinybgoat wrote:"Everyone else is doing it, so why can't we?"Eric_WLothian wrote:The various age limits are only arbitrary numbers - but there has to be a cut-off point somewhere. I'm sure there are many 16 year-olds who are savvy enough to weigh up the arguments and make their own decision. Equally, there are many 18+ year-olds who blindly follow the Sun.Willow904 wrote:The rationalisation point is a good one. We let 17 year olds drive cars. The idea that it would be irresponsible to let them vote in the light of this is laughable. The question we should be asking is do we feel other activities such as driving, going out to work, getting married etc should be raised to 18? If no, it's hard to argue voting has to remain at 18. As for the electoral register, aren't 17 year olds already on in prep for turning 18? Is the concern that 15 year olds would be listed similarly? Would it really be impossible to exempt under-18's being listed on the public roll? Has the sky fallen in in Scotland because 16 year olds put their names on a list? I'm not actually strongly for or against, tbh. The only thing about voting at 16 that appeals would be if young people had citizenship classes at school to teach them about the importance of democracy and their responsibility to vote. Without such education, I don't see the reduction of the voting age particularly significant either way although on balance I do feel there are solid arguments for a special one off for the EU referendum and certainly should be debated as part of it rather than separately.
The trouble is, I don't recall seeing a valid argument for changing, other than "a say in their future" - which could be applied to any age.
no good then.
It's no good,I'm torn between,Eric_WLothian wrote:My 4-year old granddaughter wants to do everything her 11-year old sister does. That doesn't mean she can, or should.tinybgoat wrote:"Everyone else is doing it, so why can't we?"Eric_WLothian wrote: The various age limits are only arbitrary numbers - but there has to be a cut-off point somewhere. I'm sure there are many 16 year-olds who are savvy enough to weigh up the arguments and make their own decision. Equally, there are many 18+ year-olds who blindly follow the Sun.
The trouble is, I don't recall seeing a valid argument for changing, other than "a say in their future" - which could be applied to any age.
no good then.
It's very good.Paul WaughVerified account
@paulwaugh
One of Lab's real stars of 2015, @jessphillips tells @HuffPostUK why she'll "keep banging on" about women + the poor
http://huff.to/1JZ5V15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
UK to reject EU plans to combat multinational tax avoidance
David Gauke, financial secretary to the Treasury, insists on tax competition as opposed to Union’s plan to introdu
Britain will reject plans announced in Brussels this week to combat industrial-scale tax avoidance by the world’s biggest multinationals, the Treasury minister responsible for tax policy has said. (Guardian)
Morning PF.PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.
Have we had this?
Britain will reject plans announced in ... has said.UK to reject EU plans to combat multinational tax avoidance
David Gauke, financial secretary to the Treasury, insists on tax competition as opposed to Union’s plan to introdu
Britain will reject plans announced in Brussels this week to combat industrial-scale tax avoidance by the world’s biggest multinationals, the Treasury minister responsible for tax policy has said. (Guardian)
Three minutes ago G blog:Osborne: Time to prepare for the worst
"We have entered the eleventh hour of this Greek crisis and we urge the Greek government to do a deal before it is too late.
We hope for the best, but we now must be prepared for the worst.
Britain has “taken measures” to increase economic security to handle risks from abroad, he adds."
A reporter asks Osborne what “the worst” is, but I don’t think he replies before vanishing into today’s meeting.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/liv ... 174bb6333d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bruno Waterfield
@BrunoBrussels
Ouch. @George_Osborne got number of eurozone countries wrong in Ecofin BSR debate. He said 18. It's 19.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.theguardian.com/business/liv ... 95c10feae1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
When even Gove can spot this is a disaster ... confirms how bad Grayling was / is.Rowena Mason @rowenamason 4m4 minutes ago
Michael Gove has put Chris Grayling's plans for a near-£100m teen super-prison under review, thinking of scrapping it http://gu.com/p/4avba/stw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hah. That will confound those This Week know it alls who assured viewers last night that Russia / Putin was in no position to offer any support whatsoever.HindleA wrote:Apparently,Russia is ready to give financial aid to Greece.
Bank of Greece: the banking system is stable
Greece’s central bank has issued a statement this morning, in which it declares that the banking system remains stable.
This meeting appears to have been aimed at mending fences between Stournaras and the leftist-led government, says our correspondent Helena Smith. Earlier this week, the governing Syriza party accused Stournaras, a former finance minister in the previous pro-bailout conservative led government, of fear-mongering after warning in his annual report that failure to find a deal would push Greece into uncontrollable economic collapse.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/liv ... 174bb6338c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Derek Gatopoulos @dgatopoulos 1h1 hour ago
Here's Google translation of Bank of Greece statement
#Greece
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Joe Watts @JoeWatts_ 4m4 minutes ago
British voters overwhelmingly want to stay in the EU says exclusive Ipsos MORI poll http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 31462.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … by @JoeMurphyLondon
Joe Murphy @JoeMurphyLondon 5m5 minutes ago
POLL: 66% would vote In and 22% for Out. Only 12% d/k @Ipsos MORI @EveningStandard http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 31462.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Reminds me of the plot development for "A Very British Coup",HindleA wrote:Apparently,Russia is ready to give financial aid to Greece.
Maybe Labour party MPs & leadership can each have a blog up & running with a comment enabled feature regularly updated & used?Greece’s Proposals to End the Crisis: My intervention at today’s Eurogroup
Posted on June 18, 2015 by yanisv
"The only antidote to propaganda and malicious ‘leaks’ is transparency. After so much disinformation on my presentation at the Eurogroup of the Greek government’s position, the only response is to post the precise words uttered within. Read them and judge for yourselves whether the Greek government’s proposals constitute a basis for agreement."
[Varoufakis' speech follows & comments available to read as well]
http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/06/18/gr ... eurogroup/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A bit odd that on the one hand...rebeccariots2 wrote:When even Gove can spot this is a disaster ... confirms how bad Grayling was / is.Rowena Mason @rowenamason 4m4 minutes ago
Michael Gove has put Chris Grayling's plans for a near-£100m teen super-prison under review, thinking of scrapping it http://gu.com/p/4avba/stw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and yetThis position is a clear contrast to the government’s stance before the election. It had already appointed a contractor to start work on the 320-place jail in Leicestershire this year ahead of it opening in 2017.
How could they appoint a contractor when it didn't even have Treasury approval yet?It has not yet received approval at Treasury level,
Needed the donation?RogerOThornhill wrote:A bit odd that on the one hand...rebeccariots2 wrote:When even Gove can spot this is a disaster ... confirms how bad Grayling was / is.Rowena Mason @rowenamason 4m4 minutes ago
Michael Gove has put Chris Grayling's plans for a near-£100m teen super-prison under review, thinking of scrapping it http://gu.com/p/4avba/stw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and yetThis position is a clear contrast to the government’s stance before the election. It had already appointed a contractor to start work on the 320-place jail in Leicestershire this year ahead of it opening in 2017.
How could they appoint a contractor when it didn't even have Treasury approval yet?It has not yet received approval at Treasury level,
(my emphasis)ST PETERSBURG, Russia (Reuters) – Greece has not asked the Russian Finance Ministry for financial assistance and its prime minister is visiting Russia to discuss joint projects rather than to seek cash, Russian Deputy Finance Minister Sergei Storchak said on Thursday.
“There have been no requests,” Storchak told Reuters at the St Petersburg International Economic Forum.
“There are no resources (in our budget to provide money).”
Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras arrived in St Petersburg earlier on Thursday to meet, among others, President Vladimir Putin.
(Reporting by Lidia Kelly and Darya Korsunskaya, Writing by Lidia Kelly)
http://www.euronews.com/newswires/30264 ... -minister/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The St. Petersburg International Economic Forum is Russia's premier annual event for investment and interaction between business and government.
http://rbth.co.uk/petersburg_internatio ... omic_forum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It would seem UK Tory government are dodgy.frightful_oik wrote:Needed the donation?RogerOThornhill wrote:A bit odd that on the one hand...rebeccariots2 wrote: When even Gove can spot this is a disaster ... confirms how bad Grayling was / is.and yetThis position is a clear contrast to the government’s stance before the election. It had already appointed a contractor to start work on the 320-place jail in Leicestershire this year ahead of it opening in 2017.How could they appoint a contractor when it didn't even have Treasury approval yet?It has not yet received approval at Treasury level,
Outstanding article by the new MP.The Government Must Think Again and Protect Young People Put at Risk By Their Welfare Reform
Jess Phillips is the Labour MP for Birmingham Yardley
19 June 2015
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jess-ph ... mg00000067" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Stinks, dunnit.frightful_oik wrote:Needed the donation?RogerOThornhill wrote:A bit odd that on the one hand...rebeccariots2 wrote: When even Gove can spot this is a disaster ... confirms how bad Grayling was / is.
and yetThis position is a clear contrast to the government’s stance before the election. It had already appointed a contractor to start work on the 320-place jail in Leicestershire this year ahead of it opening in 2017.
How could they appoint a contractor when it didn't even have Treasury approval yet?It has not yet received approval at Treasury level,
So why vote for a referendum?rebeccariots2 wrote:Joe Watts @JoeWatts_ 4m4 minutes ago
British voters overwhelmingly want to stay in the EU says exclusive Ipsos MORI poll http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 31462.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … by @JoeMurphyLondon
Joe Murphy @JoeMurphyLondon 5m5 minutes ago
POLL: 66% would vote In and 22% for Out. Only 12% d/k @Ipsos MORI @EveningStandard http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 31462.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Really?Analysts at Capital Economics explain that Greece really, really needs extra liquidity from the ECB.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/liv ... 95c10feb33" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Capital Economics is an economic research consultancy based in London.
In 2012 it won the Wolfson Economics Prize for the best proposal on how the Eurozone could be safely dismantled.
https://www.capitaleconomics.com/wolfson-prize.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What does Smithson say?rebeccariots2 wrote:Joe Watts @JoeWatts_ 4m4 minutes ago
British voters overwhelmingly want to stay in the EU says exclusive Ipsos MORI poll http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 31462.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … by @JoeMurphyLondon
Joe Murphy @JoeMurphyLondon 5m5 minutes ago
POLL: 66% would vote In and 22% for Out. Only 12% d/k @Ipsos MORI @EveningStandard http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 31462.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
I get the impression Greek government's ending austerity for the Greek people by refusing to cut social security provision or raising that jackass awful regressive VAT, the ECB, IMF & assorted Greek creditors can't do shit about it but threaten, accuse, tell lies & give everyone a bad day.Reuters has just snapped that the ECB has raised the emergency funding cap for Greeks banks, quoting a banking source.
But they don’t say how much by.....
http://www.theguardian.com/business/liv ... e79a3c8e30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
christ that's awfulseeingclearly wrote:This made me very sad, that young lives could be played around with for such trivial reasons.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... le-storage" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;