Thursday 25th June 2015

Post by **refitman** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 7:10 am

Morning all.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 8:18 am

Morning all.

Heard on the paper review that our idiot chancellor is thinking of cutting top rate of tax to 40% in his budget. Didn't catch which paper. Anyone help me out?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 8:24 am

frightful_oik wrote:Morning all.

Heard on the paper review that our idiot chancellor is thinking of cutting top rate of tax to 40% in his budget. Didn't catch which paper. Anyone help me out?

It's Nigel Lawson, ex-Chancellor, who is pushing that idea.
No wonder the Tories wanted yesterday's ILF demo to be kept out of the media.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/ ... .130042865" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 8:27 am

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-for-many" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What Brown could not foresee was that the credits would become a major post-crash safety net, inflating their cost from £9bn to £30bn by 2010.

The above line caught my eye. The tax credit bill currently stands at 27bn. It makes you question whether our economy has really recovered at all. This recession has made its effects felt through low pay rather than high unemployment and the above figures illustrate quite starkly that for much of the country the effects of the recession are still with us. No wonder tax receipts are so low. The whole point of cyclical downturns is that automatic stabilizers kick in, such as unemployment benefit and tax credits, to support the economy until it returns to normal, and tax credit spend returns to 9bn in real terms. The fact this hasn't happened is, in my view, an indication that the economy is depressed, though not necessarily in a way akin to the 1930s regarding extreme poverty as we started out from a much higher standard of living. Economically speaking, however, understanding the depressed nature of the economy is important in deciding how to respond. I believe austerity made things worse last time and I don't particularly fancy a war as a means to stimulate economic activity. Idiot Osborne really couldn't have been put in charge at a worse time. The economy needs investment support, yet he's planning the opposite. I'm still finding it hard to believe he would be stupid enough to actually go through with his 12bn of welfare cuts.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 8:28 am

yahyah wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:Morning all.

Heard on the paper review that our idiot chancellor is thinking of cutting top rate of tax to 40% in his budget. Didn't catch which paper. Anyone help me out?

It's Nigel Lawson, ex-Chancellor, who is pushing that idea.
No wonder the Tories wanted yesterday's ILF demo to be kept out of the media.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/ ... .130042865" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ta yahyah.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 8:31 am

Willow904 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-for-many
What Brown could not foresee was that the credits would become a major post-crash safety net, inflating their cost from £9bn to £30bn by 2010.

The above line caught my eye. The tax credit bill currently stands at 27bn. It makes you question whether our economy has really recovered at all. This recession has made its effects felt through low pay rather than high unemployment and the above figures illustrate quite starkly that for much of the country the effects of the recession are still with us. No wonder tax receipts are so low. The whole point of cyclical downturns is that automatic stabilizers kick in, such as unemployment benefit and tax credits, to support the economy until it returns to normal, and tax credit spend returns to 9bn in real terms. The fact this hasn't happened is, in my view, an indication that the economy is depressed, though not necessarily in a way akin to the 1930s regarding extreme poverty as we started out from a much higher standard of living. Economically speaking, however, understanding the depressed nature of the economy is important in deciding how to respond. I believe austerity made things worse last time and I don't particularly fancy a war as a means to stimulate economic activity. Idiot Osborne really couldn't have been put in charge at a worse time. The economy needs investment support, yet he's planning the opposite. I'm still finding it hard to believe he would be stupid enough to actually go through with his 12bn of welfare cuts.

"Even the left has an issue with a benefit that is clearly exploited by many employers as a wage subsidy"

The economic research just doesn't support that claim. Silliness like that will be exploited by people like Cameron who will say they are cutting a corporate subsidy that employers should make up.

Easily the best way to help the poor is for the state to give them money.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 8:33 am

Evemoraftinoon all...

Music paper does actual real journalism shock horror ('cos no-one else is bothering?)...although the tide of international opinion (based on facts and evidence) seems to be turning against it, just as TCBBAC and his Monsters of Murkydochia open the floodgates to fracking in Britain...

Suspect One: the extraordinary levels of wintertime pollution plaguing the Basin since the vast new undertaking to frack the region's shale filled the air with toxins. The county merely counted up infant deaths and brushed aside the facts about Vernal air pollution: ozone readings that rivaled the worst days of summer in New York, Los Angeles or Salt Lake City; particulate matter as bad as Mexico City; and ground air fraught with carcinogenic gases like benzene, rogue emissions from oil and gas drilling. Indeed, pollution was so bad in this rural bowl that it broke new ground in climate science.

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/fea ... 622?page=5

However, it's quite a long piece, so perhaps it could be rolled up and introduced to Clouncy Funt and Gidiot the Uncounter in a method that makes their eyes water...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 8:35 am

Morning.

@hobiejoe (when you appear)

It's not just you. Others seem to think Queenie is becoming overtly political ...

Iain Martin ‏@iainmartin1 26m26 minutes ago
Is all ok at the Palace? First, bizarre row with SNP on money. Now Queen given German speech sounding like backing for Yes in EU referendum

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 8:39 am

David Maddox ‏@DavidPBMaddox 41m41 minutes ago
UK government "seriously considering"'a Scottish Office for Budget Responsibility to hold SNP ministers to account http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/cameron ... hambles-1-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Eh?

Like the OBR has held this and the last government to account ....?

Editing to add extract from the article ... it seems it is a Labour amendment to the Scotland Bill which the Tories are now thinking of backing. That'll play really well with the SNP ...

THE UK government is “seriously considering” a proposal to create an Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) in Scotland to stop SNP ministers from “manipulating” economic figures.

With new powers going to Holyrood in the current Scotland Bill including control over most of income tax and £2.5 billion of welfare measures, pro-UK parties want to highlight the effects of decisions taken by SNP ministers and put pressure on them to justify their actions instead of blaming Westminster.

The Scotsman has learned that Tory ministers are now looking favourably on a Labour amendment to create a Scottish OBR.

It comes as the SNP have put in a new amendment for full fiscal autonomy (FFA), to give Holyrood full control of tax and spend north of the Border.

The move was mocked at Prime Minister’s Questions (PMQs) yesterday as being “a full fiscal shambles” as David Cameron challenged the SNP to use powers to “raise tax.”...

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 9:13 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
Willow904 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-for-many
What Brown could not foresee was that the credits would become a major post-crash safety net, inflating their cost from £9bn to £30bn by 2010.

The above line caught my eye. The tax credit bill currently stands at 27bn. It makes you question whether our economy has really recovered at all. This recession has made its effects felt through low pay rather than high unemployment and the above figures illustrate quite starkly that for much of the country the effects of the recession are still with us. No wonder tax receipts are so low. The whole point of cyclical downturns is that automatic stabilizers kick in, such as unemployment benefit and tax credits, to support the economy until it returns to normal, and tax credit spend returns to 9bn in real terms. The fact this hasn't happened is, in my view, an indication that the economy is depressed, though not necessarily in a way akin to the 1930s regarding extreme poverty as we started out from a much higher standard of living. Economically speaking, however, understanding the depressed nature of the economy is important in deciding how to respond. I believe austerity made things worse last time and I don't particularly fancy a war as a means to stimulate economic activity. Idiot Osborne really couldn't have been put in charge at a worse time. The economy needs investment support, yet he's planning the opposite. I'm still finding it hard to believe he would be stupid enough to actually go through with his 12bn of welfare cuts.

"Even the left has an issue with a benefit that is clearly exploited by many employers as a wage subsidy"

The economic research just doesn't support that claim. Silliness like that will be exploited by people like Cameron who will say they are cutting a corporate subsidy that employers should make up.

Easily the best way to help the poor is for the state to give them money.

Of course, because tax credits are specifically targeted to help low income households. Not everyone in a low paid job, though, lives in a low income household, yet those who don't receive tax credits have also failed to put upward pressure on wages. Anyway, even if it were the case, wouldn't the same argument then apply to tax cuts? Isn't that also a case of government taking on the burden of increasing take home pay, allowing employers to pay less?
Labour really need to focus attention on why social security spending is growing during a recovery, why social security hasn't receded to affordable pre-recession levels, and not let the Tories duck responsibility for growing in work poverty. GDP has recovered, incomes haven't. Why?

Post by **refitman** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 9:23 am

Posted by OBM, on Andrew's blog: http://leftfootforward.org/2015/06/the- ... now-about/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The sell offs George Osborne doesn’t want you to know about
Cat Hobbs
Yesterday

Once our public services have been sold to make profits for a wealthy few, we can't get them back.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 10:12 am

I see Wintour and Watt have come up with a 'long read' on Clegg and the Liberals. In it, apparently, they say he suffered a botched coup attempt about a year before the election and, when that failed, tried to resign, only to be told that he had to see the disaster he had set in train through to the end....

....yet, about a year before the election none of this appeared in the paper, which, at that time, was obsessing about non-existent challenges to Miliband.

Propagandists, first, foremost and forever...that's what they are.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 10:26 am

After yesterday's strictly non-news about Milburn backing Kendall, it appears that David Blunkett is supporting Burnham - which is at least slightly more interesting.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 10:30 am

Oh look.....the 'Green Investment Bank' is going to be sold off to private investors...

Mr Javid, who will address the GIB's annual review event in London on Thursday, is set to say the bank "has shown that investment in green technologies can be a profitable business. The challenge now is to build on this success.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33263710

...I'm sure that'll work, what with the absolute priority of 'Investors' to put environmental concerns above profit....oh, hang on

However, in a grown up country with an economy not totally ravaged by 40 years of serial incompetence and theft, they have an interesting commitment to the future....

“Germany has one of the most ambitious renewable energy targets in the world under the Energiewende, promising 60 per cent of renewable energy in final energy consumption and 80 per cent of electricity generated from renewable sources by 2050,” said Mr. Amin “IRENA applauds Germany’s leadership in this sector.”

http://irena.org/News/Description.aspx? ... ews_ID=400

...perhaps our Masters/betters/those who are beyond reproach could learn a thing or two....oh, but hang on (again)....isn't Gidiots' family up to their collective necks in fracking...oh yes...so they are...

Environmental groups have also raised questions over his extensive portfolio of energy interests, and have suggested he could use family gatherings to lobby the Chancellor. It includes the presidency of the British Institute of Energy Economics, which is sponsored by Shell and BP, and a consultancy with a transport company which is expected to tender when the HS2 rail line is built.
Craig Bennett, Friends of the Earth's policy and campaigns director, said of the fracking comments: "This breathtaking ignorance and arrogance is typical of the cosy cabal that surrounds George Osborne."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 38634.html

ttfn

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 10:38 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:After yesterday's strictly non-news about Milburn backing Kendall, it appears that David Blunkett is supporting Burnham - which is at least slightly more interesting.

In the sense that I was never going to vote for Liz Kendall but am now leaning towards totally ruling out Andy Burnham, then I suppose it is. Though I'd be interested to know if Andy Burnham is pleased to have David Blunkett's support.

Good morfternoon, everyone.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 10:39 am

Morning.

Unsurprisingly,a significant increase in disability poverty.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 10:42 am

PorFavor wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:After yesterday's strictly non-news about Milburn backing Kendall, it appears that David Blunkett is supporting Burnham - which is at least slightly more interesting.
In the sense that I was never going to vote for Liz Kendall but am now leaning towards totally ruling out Andy Burnham, then I suppose it is. Though I'd be interested to know if Andy Burnham is pleased to have David Blunkett's support.

Good morfternoon, everyone.

Well, my thought was that it showed Blunkett in a slightly better light than some of the Blairite "sectarians".

(are there any prizes for guessing who Charles Clarke is supporting, for example?)

I don't detest Blunkett in the way some on the left do - I see him as a deeply, tragically flawed but still very interesting man with an inspiring life story.

His autobiography is well worth reading.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 11:02 am

Blunkett was very impressive in front of the Education Select Committee and came out with a pretty decent report for the manifesto.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 11:25 am

Morning all.
Disappointed to see my own MP giving the Liz For Leader spiel. After a low key following of things political post election by myself it's time to get more involved at the local level. Next local meeting pencilled in!

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 11:29 am

From the AS blog
'Frank Field congratulates Duncan Smith on winding up the media to expect rising poverty figures. Will Duncan Smith invite the work and pensions select committee to conduct an inquiry into what new poverty measures could be?

Duncan Smith says he did not tell the media the figures would show poverty going up. He suggests Labour frontbenchers were responsible. He says his door is always open to Field. '

What a great select committee chair FFF is going to be.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 11:48 am

Ah but there has been a significant increase in poverty, granted it depends where you look and/or choose to ignore.Particularly pertinent I would suggest that this characteristic is among the "protected".

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 11:51 am

Good-morning, everyone.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 11:58 am

I'm beside myself.
Been ill for a few days.
Horrible dreams.
All of my nightmares are in the headlines.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 12:01 pm

Oh for godssake!
Greece!
Creditors say 'no deal'?
What's that mean then?
They gotta sell themselves? Their land? This isn't okay.

Post by **refitman** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 12:38 pm

citizenJA wrote:I'm beside myself.
Been ill for a few days.
Horrible dreams.
All of my nightmares are in the headlines.

Hope you're feeling better soon cJA

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 12:48 pm

Get well soon, citizen

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 1:15 pm

From the G - Graeme Wearden blog - Eurozone Greek crisis - live updates
Thursday 25 June 2015

Several experienced crisis watchers agree that Greece’s lenders have given some ground in their latest proposals, while sticking firm on other issues:
Jorge Valero @europressos
Quite a step institutions postpone by 2 years (end 2019) phasing out supplements for low income pensioners #Greece
12:02 PM - 25 Jun 2015

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.theguardian.com/business/liv ... aeb0115b96

Creditors are also refusing to accept the Greek plan of raising the corporation tax rate from 26% to 29%. In their latest proposal, it would rise to 28%.
They are also keeping a firm red line through Athens plan for a one-off 12% tax on all corporate profits over €500,000.
But one other measure has survived, as the FT points out:
But the plan keeps Mr Tsipras’s plan to raise luxury tax on yachts from 10% per cent to 13%.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/liv ... f829c5d53e" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now this is interesting too.... Greece’s creditors are offering that these VAT hikes could be “reviewed at the end of 2016”, if Athens has proved that it has raised more revenue through fighting tax evasion and VAT collection.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/liv ... aeb0115b89" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I understand the loss of a sovereign currency makes countries using the euro, for example, limited in response capability to economic mayhem. But this is unacceptable. When did creditors get to decide corporation tax & social security provision, please?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 1:17 pm

Thank you, friends.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 1:34 pm

Alan Miliburn, the former Labour cabinet minister who chairs the child poverty and social mobility commission, has put out statement about today’s poverty figures.(Politics Blog, Guardian)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 1:51 pm

Network Rail chairman to step down amid spiralling costs of upgrade

Government freezes part of £38.5bn, five-year plan and replaces Richard Parry-Jones with London’s transport commissioner, Sir Peter Hendy

Network Rail’s chairman, Richard Parry-Jones, is to step down and will be replaced by London’s transport commissioner, Sir Peter Hendy.

Patrick McLoughlin, the transport secretary, announced Parry-Jones’s departure and said major improvements to rail lines in the Midlands and the north of England would now be shelved.

McLoughlin conceded that the vaunted biggest investment in the railways since Victorian times was not going to deliver the projects promised in a £38.5bn five-year plan. (Guardian)

Well, as long as the Lincoln by-pass goes ahead . . . . .

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... re-delayed

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 2:04 pm

Northern Powerhouse and Long-term Economic Plan.

Altogether now -

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 2:05 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Alan Miliburn, the former Labour cabinet minister who chairs the child poverty and social mobility commission, has put out statement about today’s poverty figures.(Politics Blog, Guardian)

Just ignore him.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 2:08 pm

PorFavor wrote:Northern Powerhouse and Long-term Economic Plan.

Altogether now -

I just burst into tears.
All thanks to Chancellor Jeff, Dave & Tory ne'er-do-wells.

I'm putting the kettle on.
Help yourself to the chocolate rolls.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 2:11 pm

citizenJA wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Northern Powerhouse and Long-term Economic Plan.

Altogether now -
I just burst into tears.
All thanks to Chancellor Jeff, Dave & Tory ne'er-do-wells.

I'm putting the kettle on.
Help yourself to the chocolate rolls.

Thank you!

Five more years? I honestly don't think so. I can't let myself think so, come to that.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 2:19 pm

Re David Cameron's EU negotiations -

According to Donald Tusk, the fundamentals of the EU (I paraphrase a bit) are "not for sale" (BBC News).

David Cameron will have great difficulty in grasping that concept.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 2:33 pm

Hope you feel better soon, @cJA x

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 2:35 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:Hope you feel better soon, @cJA x

Thank you, it may take a while.
There's a Tory government in the House.

xx
cJA

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 2:36 pm

PorFavor wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Northern Powerhouse and Long-term Economic Plan.

Altogether now -
I just burst into tears.
All thanks to Chancellor Jeff, Dave & Tory ne'er-do-wells.

I'm putting the kettle on.
Help yourself to the chocolate rolls.
Thank you!

Five more years? I honestly don't think so. I can't let myself think so, come to that.

I understand & agree completely.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 3:00 pm

Yes,hope you feel better soon.CJA .

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 3:10 pm

HindleA wrote:Yes,hope you feel better soon.CJA .

Thank you

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 4:30 pm

Revealed: how developers exploit flawed planning system to minimise affordable housing (Guardian)

A very long, but disturbing and interesting, read.

http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/ ... wainwright

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 4:42 pm

Have we had this?

Telford (which threw out its Labour MP this time) has no fewer than 4 failing academies with the same chain.

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2015 ... my-career/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Leaked letter from the chain's finance director talks about a "fiasco". And other chains aren't exactly falling over themselves to take the schools off their hands.

54 posts cut from the chain/schools.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 4:47 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Network Rail chairman to step down amid spiralling costs of upgrade

Government freezes part of £38.5bn, five-year plan and replaces Richard Parry-Jones with London’s transport commissioner, Sir Peter Hendy

Network Rail’s chairman, Richard Parry-Jones, is to step down and will be replaced by London’s transport commissioner, Sir Peter Hendy.

Patrick McLoughlin, the transport secretary, announced Parry-Jones’s departure and said major improvements to rail lines in the Midlands and the north of England would now be shelved.

McLoughlin conceded that the vaunted biggest investment in the railways since Victorian times was not going to deliver the projects promised in a £38.5bn five-year plan. (Guardian)
Well, as long as the Lincoln by-pass goes ahead . . . . .

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... re-delayed

Ha ha, yes. Maybe Nicky Sturgeon stopped these schemes though.

Network Rail is being blamed- which, if it is fair, might explain why Labour didn't want them running all the rail franchises too.

This was being pretty obviously kept back till after the election- Private Eye spotted it. Labour could have gone for it more, but if the media won't set political agendas by itself, it's hard.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 4:59 pm

We shouldn't swallow the Network Rail line whole yet. It did all seem too good to be true- Transport was an unprotected budget and slashed, but with lots of work apparently still happening. Sure, lots of funding from ticket revenue too, but even so.

Maybe Network Rail told the Government the budgets were too small for all the projects.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 5:09 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
David Maddox ‏@DavidPBMaddox 41m41 minutes ago
UK government "seriously considering"'a Scottish Office for Budget Responsibility to hold SNP ministers to account http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/cameron ... hambles-1-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Eh?

Like the OBR has held this and the last government to account ....?

It has done pretty well. Though you have to factor in that, as with the ONS, the media don't really care about the government lying. Unscrupulous politicians can usually phrase something so that it isn't an outright lie- Cameron saying the OBR were clear austerity hadn't reduced growth was unusually reckless lying. Figures like those the Scottish Government stuck out before independence would have to be verified by a Scottish OBR, I think.

It'll be interesting to see if the SNP support this. They want to have their own foreign affairs department, as if Scotland's independent already. They ought to have an OBR/fiscal council then.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 5:09 pm

I see that the

vaunted biggest investment in the railways since Victorian times

is still doing the rounds despite having disproved. By the Guardian amongst others.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 5:10 pm

PorFavor wrote:Re David Cameron's EU negotiations -

According to Donald Tusk, the fundamentals of the EU (I paraphrase a bit) are "not for sale" (BBC News).

David Cameron will have great difficulty in grasping that concept.

Cameron's concepts are

1) The answer isn't more Europe.
2) Why won't Europe stop these people getting into vans at Calais?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 5:11 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:I see that the

vaunted biggest investment in the railways since Victorian times
is still doing the rounds despite having disproved. By the Guardian amongst others.

Quite possibly the biggest for some time, I'd have thought.

They don't like to tell you that passengers are funding it...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 5:35 pm

Business groups reject PM's plan to replace tax credits with higher pay
Industry organisations...deny pay levels are linked to receipt of tax credit and....warn small employers may not be able to afford salary increases

Business groups have warned David Cameron that he cannot expect companies to automatically raise wages to compensate for cuts in tax credits that are likely to be unveiled in the summer budget. Industry organisations, including the British Chamber of Commerce (BCC) and Institute of Directors (IoD), spoke out after Cameron gave a speech criticising what he claimed was a “welfare merry-go-round” and suggested higher pay should replace tax credits.

...Labour pointed out that there would need to be a 25% across-the-board rise in the minimum wage to compensate the lowest paid workers if Cameron were to cut tax credits by £5bn. This is a figure the Institute for Fiscal Studies has said would take the child tax credit to 2003 levels, plus inflation.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/j ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Make sure it's all packed into that one sentence, now.
I thought the economy was doing great.
This is rough coming from hardworkingbusinessgroups, you know?
Businesses pay workers little & rely upon government to make their venture profitable for themselves.
What's Dave thinking?

Shocking article title & contents, people, describing a damned awful way to treat people.
Business leader representatives, this isn't the way a first world country treats the people doing the work.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 25 Jun, 2015 5:36 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:I see that the

vaunted biggest investment in the railways since Victorian times
is still doing the rounds despite having disproved. By the Guardian amongst others.

Quite possibly the biggest for some time, I'd have thought.

They don't like to tell you that passengers are funding it...

(my bold)
More than once.