Wednesday 17th September 2014

[Spacedone]

So, riot on the streets of Brixton or Tottenham, (rightly) experience some time at Her Majestys Pleasure; smash up a restaurant in Oxford, become PM and get a film glorifying your hijinks. Saw the poster for this on the way home tonight, have to admit to the use of a few choice profanities.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/se ... ge-elitism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've seen the trailer for it and I don't think it's glorifying them...

[AngryAsWell]

Shetland may reconsider its place in Scotland after yes vote, says Carmichael
Scotland secretary says if the islands were to vote no but national vote was a yes, Shetland would consider its options

Now that would be a bit ...errm, sort of difficult for Salmond, remind me again where the oil fields are? (well not all but enough to make it a problem?) Can they do it? BTL seem to think not.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... carmichael" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for the "fix quote" refitman - not sure what happened there.

[refitman]

So, riot on the streets of Brixton or Tottenham, (rightly) experience some time at Her Majestys Pleasure; smash up a restaurant in Oxford, become PM and get a film glorifying your hijinks. Saw the poster for this on the way home tonight, have to admit to the use of a few choice profanities.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/se ... ge-elitism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've seen the trailer for it and I don't think it's glorifying them...

Oh, it's not glorifying them at all. Here's the trailer:

[youtube]pZwv6h-LhTw[/youtube]

[Spacedone]

Shetland may reconsider its place in Scotland after yes vote, says Carmichael
Scotland secretary says if the islands were to vote no but national vote was a yes, Shetland would consider its options

Now that would be a bit ...errm, sort of difficult for Salmond, remind me again where the oil fields are? (well not all but enough to make it a problem?) Can they do it? BTL seem to think not.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... carmichael" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think for a second it'll happen but you have to ask why couldn't they do it? They could employ exactly the same arguments Salmond/Yes have been using:

[*]Not the government/union they voted for.
[*]Ruled over by a (mainland) elite.
[*]Little representation in the SP.
[*]Their oil wealth being taken away from them and little coming back in return.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

So, riot on the streets of Brixton or Tottenham, (rightly) experience some time at Her Majestys Pleasure; smash up a restaurant in Oxford, become PM and get a film glorifying your hijinks. Saw the poster for this on the way home tonight, have to admit to the use of a few choice profanities.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/se ... ge-elitism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've seen the trailer for it and I don't think it's glorifying them...

Ah well, I stand corrected. But you want to bet Boris doesn't turn it to his advantage?

[AngryAsWell]

Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes · 3m
David Cameron: “after the events I have been facing over the last few days, assassination would be a welcome release” http://order-order.com/2014/09/17/quote-of-the-day-921/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

[TechnicalEphemera]

Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes · 3m
David Cameron: “after the events I have been facing over the last few days, assassination would be a welcome release” http://order-order.com/2014/09/17/quote-of-the-day-921/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

And that is an opinion that unites the whole of the UK.

[RogerOThornhill]

Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes · 3m
David Cameron: “after the events I have been facing over the last few days, assassination would be a welcome release” http://order-order.com/2014/09/17/quote-of-the-day-921/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Can he see the HM Bateman cartoon of "The PM who lost Scotland" being drawn on Friday and a stern ticking off by HM?

"Mr Cameron, you appear to have lorst my Scotland"
"very sorry Ma'am"
"Not good enough. Off with his head!"

[AngryAsWell]

Shetland may reconsider its place in Scotland after yes vote, says Carmichael
Scotland secretary says if the islands were to vote no but national vote was a yes, Shetland would consider its options

Now that would be a bit ...errm, sort of difficult for Salmond, remind me again where the oil fields are? (well not all but enough to make it a problem?) Can they do it? BTL seem to think not.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... carmichael" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think for a second it'll happen but you have to ask why couldn't they do it? They could employ exactly the same arguments Salmond/Yes have been using:

[*]Not the government/union they voted for.
[*]Ruled over by a (mainland) elite.
[*]Little representation in the SP.
[*]Their oil wealth being taken away from them and little coming back in return.

Yep they tick every box, be nice to see them try

[AngryAsWell]

Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes · 3m
David Cameron: “after the events I have been facing over the last few days, assassination would be a welcome release” http://order-order.com/2014/09/17/quote-of-the-day-921/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

And that is an opinion that unites the whole of the UK.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Shetland may reconsider its place in Scotland after yes vote, says Carmichael
Scotland secretary says if the islands were to vote no but national vote was a yes, Shetland would consider its options

Now that would be a bit ...errm, sort of difficult for Salmond, remind me again where the oil fields are? (well not all but enough to make it a problem?) Can they do it? BTL seem to think not.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... carmichael" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think for a second it'll happen but you have to ask why couldn't they do it? They could employ exactly the same arguments Salmond/Yes have been using:

[*]Not the government/union they voted for.
[*]Ruled over by a (mainland) elite.
[*]Little representation in the SP.
[*]Their oil wealth being taken away from them and little coming back in return.

Those are more true as part of the UK than as part of Scotland.

It's a reductio ad asburdam by an irrelevant Scottish Secretary, trying to get some people to vote "NO" on a vague "where will it end?" grounds. And also a sense that Scotland might not have much oil anyway.

Can't believe this has made the top story on the basis of two Lib Dems saying it. Their council consists of 22 independents. Haven't noticed them say this.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Look out for Shetland's equivalent of Terry off the Likely Lads popping up to say he wanted to be independent from the other side of the road in Unst.

[AngryAsWell]

Just looking at Shetland.. its beautiful.
http://visit.shetland.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Check these rents - think I might sell up and go to live there!!
http://www.shetland.gov.uk/housing/hous ... levels.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Eric_WLothian]

Now that would be a bit ...errm, sort of difficult for Salmond, remind me again where the oil fields are? (well not all but enough to make it a problem?) Can they do it? BTL seem to think not.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... carmichael" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think for a second it'll happen but you have to ask why couldn't they do it? They could employ exactly the same arguments Salmond/Yes have been using:

[*]Not the government/union they voted for.
[*]Ruled over by a (mainland) elite.
[*]Little representation in the SP.
[*]Their oil wealth being taken away from them and little coming back in return.

Those are more true as part of the UK than as part of Scotland.

It's a reductio ad asburdam by an irrelevant Scottish Secretary, trying to get some people to vote "NO" on a vague "where will it end?" grounds. And also a sense that Scotland might not have much oil anyway.

Can't believe this has made the top story on the basis of two Lib Dems saying it. Their council consists of 22 independents. Haven't noticed them say this.

It hasn't just appeared out of the blue. There was a petition to the Scottish Parliament for referenda in Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles after tomorrow's referendum.
It gathered 1170 signatures but was closed by the SNP administration on the grounds that:

...the Scottish Government has indicated that it does not support what the petition seeks and that there is insufficient time to arrange such referenda within the timescale called for in the petition

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/Getti ... landgroups

[ErnstRemarx]

Shetland may reconsider its place in Scotland after yes vote, says Carmichael
Scotland secretary says if the islands were to vote no but national vote was a yes, Shetland would consider its options

Now that would be a bit ...errm, sort of difficult for Salmond, remind me again where the oil fields are? (well not all but enough to make it a problem?) Can they do it? BTL seem to think not.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... carmichael" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think for a second it'll happen but you have to ask why couldn't they do it? They could employ exactly the same arguments Salmond/Yes have been using:

[*]Not the government/union they voted for.
[*]Ruled over by a (mainland) elite.
[*]Little representation in the SP.
[*]Their oil wealth being taken away from them and little coming back in return.

You missed out, it's a parliament in the south that doesn't understand us and is the political blob. And if Eck is successful and severe austerity hits the islands, then in what way is Salmond and his merry band any different to the Westminster establishment that he's railed against so successfully when denouncing them to the Scots?

[AngryAsWell]

roadto326 ‏@roadto326 · 46m
YouGov - Labour lead of 3 - CON (33%) LAB (36%) LD (8%) UKIP (13%)...like anyone cares...

[ErnstRemarx]

roadto326 ‏@roadto326 · 46m
YouGov - Labour lead of 3 - CON (33%) LAB (36%) LD (8%) UKIP (13%)...like anyone cares...

Well, I do, and I suspect that the next YG poll will be rather more harsh towards the Tories, particularly if the indyref vote is yes.

[Temulkar]

roadto326 ‏@roadto326 · 46m
YouGov - Labour lead of 3 - CON (33%) LAB (36%) LD (8%) UKIP (13%)...like anyone cares...

I do; I'm heartily sick of the scottish referendum now.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Just looking at Shetland.. its beautiful.
http://visit.shetland.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Check these rents - think I might sell up and go to live there!!
http://www.shetland.gov.uk/housing/hous ... levels.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't forget our signature photo is from shetland. Fair Isle to be precise

[Temulkar]

roadto326 ‏@roadto326 · 46m
YouGov - Labour lead of 3 - CON (33%) LAB (36%) LD (8%) UKIP (13%)...like anyone cares...

Well, I do, and I suspect that the next YG poll will be rather more harsh towards the Tories, particularly if the indyref vote is yes.

I think we are in the endgame now Ernst. Whist I am hoping for a no, I am not convinced it will save Cameron. The two by elections come up really quickly after this insanity is over. A Kipper win and a good hold for Labour will fuck with the tory backbenchers heads and they are already getting twitchy.

If Scotland vote yes, it will be a general election before Xmas.

[rebeccariots2]

Has anyone else just watched the debate on Channel 4? I have - and wish I hadn't. It's not good to be scared like that shortly before bedtime.

We may well be entering into very uncharted waters after tomorrow. And I wish I had a speck of trust that the politicians who will be in charge of finding a course through them had the right skills, understanding and values to be up to it ... but I haven't got any in Cameron and his hench people. The sense of disgust with Westminster and it's vile policies was palpable and clearly the main driver for people to consider voting for independence. This is what the greedy expenses and crony trough, lies and cover up, broken promises, deliberately divisive policies and downright punishment of those considered lesser .... has reaped.

[Temulkar]

Has anyone else just watched the debate on Channel 4? I have - and wish I hadn't. It's not good to be scared like that shortly before bedtime.

We may well be entering into very uncharted waters after tomorrow. And I wish I had a speck of trust that the politicians who will be in charge of finding a course through them had the right skills, understanding and values to be up to it ... but I haven't got any in Cameron and his hench people. The sense of disgust with Westminster and it's vile policies was palpable and clearly the main driver for people to consider voting for independence. This is what the greedy expenses and crony trough, lies and cover up, broken promises, deliberately divisive policies and downright punishment of those considered lesser .... has reaped.

Just switched to the +1 hour version.

[RogerOThornhill]

We may well be entering into very uncharted waters after tomorrow. And I wish I had a speck of trust that the politicians who will be in charge of finding a course through them had the right skills, understanding and values to be up to it ... but I haven't got any in Cameron and his hench people. The sense of disgust with Westminster and it's vile policies was palpable and clearly the main driver for people to consider voting for independence. This is what the greedy expenses and crony trough, lies and cover up, broken promises, deliberately divisive policies and downright punishment of those considered lesser .... has reaped.

Wasn't there something the other week that said there was no contingency plan made for a Yes vote?

I doubt that very much - the civil service will have one with everything mapped out as to what needs to be finalised and a roadmap towards independence. They might not have told the politicians they have one and actively discouraged them from getting involved but there'll be one around.

It's the same with elections - they don't bank on a coalition but know the procedure that needs to be followed when one occurs - like last time.

[rebeccariots2]

We may well be entering into very uncharted waters after tomorrow. And I wish I had a speck of trust that the politicians who will be in charge of finding a course through them had the right skills, understanding and values to be up to it ... but I haven't got any in Cameron and his hench people. The sense of disgust with Westminster and it's vile policies was palpable and clearly the main driver for people to consider voting for independence. This is what the greedy expenses and crony trough, lies and cover up, broken promises, deliberately divisive policies and downright punishment of those considered lesser .... has reaped.

Wasn't there something the other week that said there was no contingency plan made for a Yes vote?

I doubt that very much - the civil service will have one with everything mapped out as to what needs to be finalised and a roadmap towards independence. They might not have told the politicians they have one and actively discouraged them from getting involved but there'll be one around.

It's the same with elections - they don't bank on a coalition but know the procedure that needs to be followed when one occurs - like last time.

The head of the civil service dept responsible for such planning said they had been specifically instructed not to plan for such a contingency by the government.

But my worry is beyond that procedural basis - which I'm sure the relevant bods will knock up, even if it doesn't currently exist. Cameron is so out of touch and so bad a judge of people and situations and so crap at negotiating - or even identifying the most important points to hold on to - I can't see him steering a decent, steady way forward whichever way it goes. And he hasn't got people around him with the level of experience, judgement and nuance either ... he's just made sure he got rid of the ones that had any of that from his cabinet.

[RogerOThornhill]

The head of the civil service dept responsible for such planning said they had been specifically instructed not to plan for such a contingency by the government.

But my worry is beyond that procedural basis - which I'm sure the relevant bods will knock up, even if it doesn't currently exist. Cameron is so out of touch and so bad a judge of people and situations and so crap at negotiating - or even identifying the most important points to hold on to - I can't see him steering a decent, steady way forward whichever way it goes. And he hasn't got people around him with the level of experience, judgement and nuance either ... he's just made sure he got rid of the ones that had any of that from his cabinet.

He might have been told not to do one but I'm 99% certain that they would have been working on one since the Bill for the referendum went through a year back.

Can you imagine the market reaction if someone from the UK government came out on Friday and said "Oh. OK, we'll go back and have a think about what happens next"?

The "don't prepare one" was only so that it doesn't look like they're thinking they might be defeated. The civil service isn't that stupid.