Wednesday 17th September 2014

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 4:27 pm

ohsocynical wrote:We would hope that if the No vote wins, Cameron would go down on his knees and thank Gordon Brown in particular, not to mention Darling, Ed, and the countless Labour No supporters who've been out on the doorsteps in Scotland - not that we've seen much of that on the TV.

There is as much chance of that happening as seeing pink elephants flying past my window.

Rumour has it The Leader sees them all the time and, in fact, UKIP are considering fielding one as a candidate next year.

JackPranker · Post by **JackPranker** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 4:37 pm

Rebecca wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Iain Smith speaking up for the "No" vote. That's torn it . . .

And, like ErnstRemarx, I wish the Scots all the best of luck, whatever the result.
Can I NOT wish my ex mother-in-law well?Or those guys who called Ed M a serial murderer?Holding a grudge here.

I think you're probably entitled to wish an eternity of boils on your ex-MiL's bum. As for the bams shouting that sort of keech at Ed Miliband - well, there's no accounting for morons, is there?

JackPranker · Post by **JackPranker** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 4:38 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:We would hope that if the No vote wins, Cameron would go down on his knees and thank Gordon Brown in particular, not to mention Darling, Ed, and the countless Labour No supporters who've been out on the doorsteps in Scotland - not that we've seen much of that on the TV.

There is as much chance of that happening as seeing pink elephants flying past my window.
Rumour has it The Leader sees them all the time and, in fact, UKIP are considering fielding one as a candidate next year.

Not brown elephants thought. Nooooooo...

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 4:39 pm

Rebecca wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Iain Smith speaking up for the "No" vote. That's torn it . . .

And, like ErnstRemarx, I wish the Scots all the best of luck, whatever the result.
Can I NOT wish my ex mother-in-law well?Or those guys who called Ed M a serial murderer?Holding a grudge here.

Ha! And you hide it so well.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 4:40 pm

The "serial murderer" one was a bit puzzling.

People who didn't know a) that Ed wasn't even an MP at the time of the Iraq war and b) didn't support it, one presumes?

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 4:48 pm

JackPranker wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:We would hope that if the No vote wins, Cameron would go down on his knees and thank Gordon Brown in particular, not to mention Darling, Ed, and the countless Labour No supporters who've been out on the doorsteps in Scotland - not that we've seen much of that on the TV.

There is as much chance of that happening as seeing pink elephants flying past my window.
Rumour has it The Leader sees them all the time and, in fact, UKIP are considering fielding one as a candidate next year.
Not brown elephants thought. Nooooooo...

No. That was why he (and the rest of his crew) voted against an EU ban on ivory imports, scared of the brown elephants coming over here and taking his pink elephants jobs.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 4:52 pm

I am confident that wherever a pink elephant stands for election they will comfortably beat the Lib Dems.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 4:55 pm

The AS live blogging sure is interesting, and today is only the starter. Equivalent of the "wafer thin mint" expected Friday BTL.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 5:00 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:Ok I have waxed lyrical, now judge for yourselves..

Yes Rebecca, the NO have been on the back foot when it comes to passionate arguments.
Wow! That was a hell of a speech, wasn't it? It was my kind of speech too - quoting Marx, and unashamedly standing up for the NHS and the welfare state.

Why couldn't we have seen that Gordon Brown a little more in 2007-10??

Indeed. The biggest tragedy of Gordon Brown was attempting to be something he wasn't, he wasn't a Blair like personality, showing faux concern, if he stuck to who he really was, an intellectual, not a populist, dour at times, who would have cared, I wouldn't?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 5:22 pm

I know I always lower the tone but as well as having a crush on Alastair Darling back in the day I used to find Gordon Brown sexy.
He reminded me of my first love who broke my heart, a Marxist who was ten years older than me and used to work in the international section of the TUC. [Hi if you're an FTNer Tom, too late mate I'm happily married now].

And are we in an alternate universe ?

The Mail headline:
'Barnstorming Brown delivers the speech of his career in passionate final plea to save the Union... so why wasn't he in charge of the No campaign from the start?'

He has said he would stand for the Scottish Parliament to attack the SNP lies on the NHS, wonder if he means either way, if Yes or No wins ?

Wouldn't it be a thing if Yes just scraped a victory and their first elected government under independence was a Labour one with Brown at the helm ?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 5:25 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:The "serial murderer" one was a bit puzzling.

People who didn't know a) that Ed wasn't even an MP at the time of the Iraq war and b) didn't support it, one presumes?

Yes, very puzzling. I found myself wondering if they had actually thought he was Tony Blair.

(Thank goodness he's stayed away this time. Small mercies.)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 5:29 pm

Retweeted by New Statesman
Media Mole ‏@ns_media 16m
Sky's Kay Burley calls a Scottish Yes supporter "a bit of a knob" live on air http://www.newstatesman.com/media-mole/ ... b-live-air" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 5:41 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Retweeted by New Statesman
Media Mole ‏@ns_media 16m
Sky's Kay Burley calls a Scottish Yes supporter "a bit of a knob" live on air http://www.newstatesman.com/media-mole/ ... b-live-air" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

She had a reason if the report that he tried to attack the cameraman with a stick is true.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 5:52 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:The "serial murderer" one was a bit puzzling.

People who didn't know a) that Ed wasn't even an MP at the time of the Iraq war and b) didn't support it, one presumes?
Yes, very puzzling. I found myself wondering if they had actually thought he was Tony Blair. (Thank goodness he's stayed away this time. Small mercies.)
It's a case of Labour = Iraq = Mass murderer, I imagine.

Never mind that Labour (and not least Blair) brought about peace in Northern Ireland. The way the oh so very pro-Labour BBC has been talking about it recently you'd think it was all John Major and Iain Bloody (and I use the term advisedly) Paisley.

& all those Kosovan Albanian boys named after Tony Blair in recognition of the role he played in the Balkans.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... r-tonibler

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 5:52 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:The nasty pro-union BBC just reported Gordon Brown's speech - or rather, just the part where he said Scotland risked falling through an 'economic trapdoor', leaving out all of the positive stuff about the strength and history of the Union, co-operation, the creation of devolution, NHS, welfare state etc together (which was a majority of the speech) - then reporting Salmond's reply that the No campaign was being negative and only the Yes campaign offered a positive vision.

With bias like this, who needs objectivity?

Surely all the NO side do is make threats?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 5:54 pm

Just listened to Brown's speech. No wonder people from Simon Schama to the Mail are saying it was good.

Wow, it is a barnstormer, Gordon's got his mojo back.

Talking from the heart, and saying what he believes.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 5:57 pm

RobertSnozers wrote: Very true. I think by the time be became to be PM, he'd forgotten all his radicalism in favour of a sort of managerial, Blair-like style which just didn't suit him. There's a school of thought in personnel development that people shouldn't actually spend too much time developing the areas of their skillset that they are weakest at, and should focus more narrowly on the things they do well anyway. This would have worked for Brown, I think. Trying to out-Cameron Cameron was never going to work.

The interesting thing about Brown as PM is that he seemed to have moved away from the Blair sofa approach to government.

This article in the DT is worth a read - especially for the names of the civil servants he brought back in to No 10.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... heart.html

Mr Brown has picked career civil servants to become his principal advisers on international relations in an attempt to show that he is moving away from Mr Blair's much-criticised style of "sofa government".

Simon McDonald, 46, a former UK ambassador to Israel who heads Iraq policy at the Foreign Office, will replace Sir Nigel Sheinwald as chief foreign policy adviser. Jon Cunliffe, 54, the second permanent secretary at the Treasury, is set to take over from Kim Darroch as the Prime Minister's main adviser on European policy.

Cunliffe is now deputy governor at the BoE...and like him or not, Jeremy Heywood was brought back from the City into No 10. Very traditional way of managing government.

You can see why Cameron thinks he's the heir to Blair - move away from a civil service to a politically-appointed one.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 5:59 pm

Well now,Salmond says that Scotland will be Englands new best friend.How stupid does he think we are?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 6:00 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
No. That was why he (and the rest of his crew) voted against an EU ban on ivory imports, scared of the brown elephants coming over here and taking his pink elephants jobs.

I thought you were going to end up saying 'with the brown elephants shitting on him from a great height.'

Now wouldn't that be worth watching

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 6:01 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote: Wow! That was a hell of a speech, wasn't it? It was my kind of speech too - quoting Marx, and unashamedly standing up for the NHS and the welfare state.

Why couldn't we have seen that Gordon Brown a little more in 2007-10??
Indeed. The biggest tragedy of Gordon Brown was attempting to be something he wasn't, he wasn't a Blair like personality, showing faux concern, if he stuck to who he really was, an intellectual, not a populist, dour at times, who would have cared, I wouldn't?
Very true. I think by the time be became to be PM, he'd forgotten all his radicalism in favour of a sort of managerial, Blair-like style which just didn't suit him. There's a school of thought in personnel development that people shouldn't actually spend too much time developing the areas of their skillset that they are weakest at, and should focus more narrowly on the things they do well anyway. This would have worked for Brown, I think. Trying to out-Cameron Cameron was never going to work.

The last bit - he would have needed training to think down to Cameron's level, let alone emulate it.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 6:06 pm

Great article from Larry Elliot lays out the economic points regarding independence:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/eco ... mic-issues" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 6:13 pm

Personal ambition has crossed my mind quite a few times over the last few weeks:

Salmond will be either:

Leader/President/Prime Minister of Independent Scotland
Or:
Leader of an opposition party within the UK.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 6:24 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Personal ambition has crossed my mind quite a few times over the last few weeks:

Salmond will be either:

Leader/President/Prime Minister of Independent Scotland
Or:
Leader of an opposition party within the UK.

Salmond "could step down by November" if Scotland votes No
Scottish First Minister could make way for his deputy Nicola Sturgeon if independence is rejected.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... d-votes-no

Can't see it myself. Salmond stepping down that is. Who knows how the vote is going to go ....

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 6:26 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Personal ambition has crossed my mind quite a few times over the last few weeks:

Salmond will be either:

Leader/President/Prime Minister of Independent Scotland
Or:
Leader of an opposition party within the UK.

Salmond "could step down by November" if Scotland votes No
Scottish First Minister could make way for his deputy Nicola Sturgeon if independence is rejected.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... d-votes-no
Can't see it myself. Salmond stepping down that is. Who knows how the vote is going to go ....

I still predict a No win, and a lot of people will tell their friends and family they voted Yes but will actually vote No when the reality hits them in the polling booth.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 6:27 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Rebecca wrote:Well now,Salmond says that Scotland will be Englands new best friend.How stupid does he think we are?
Seriously?

The way he's talking today suggests he thinks a Yes vote is a long shot.

His latest speech in the Guardian.And some crap about being there to offer England sage counsel or some such guff.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 6:32 pm

This just popped up in my Twitter feed and make me laugh.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 6:37 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote: Wow! That was a hell of a speech, wasn't it? It was my kind of speech too - quoting Marx, and unashamedly standing up for the NHS and the welfare state.

Why couldn't we have seen that Gordon Brown a little more in 2007-10??
Indeed. The biggest tragedy of Gordon Brown was attempting to be something he wasn't, he wasn't a Blair like personality, showing faux concern, if he stuck to who he really was, an intellectual, not a populist, dour at times, who would have cared, I wouldn't?

Very true. I think by the time be became to be PM, he'd forgotten all his radicalism in favour of a sort of managerial, Blair-like style which just didn't suit him. There's a school of thought in personnel development that people shouldn't actually spend too much time developing the areas of their skillset that they are weakest at, and should focus more narrowly on the things they do well anyway. This would have worked for Brown, I think. Trying to out-Cameron Cameron was never going to work.

Think of the Blairites hanging around even now and still capable of causing the odd bit of trouble, then think what a bloody hard job he must have had with them right after he took over. It's no wonder he got frustrated.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 6:43 pm

Genius, Shetland is now considering leaving Scotland and remaining in the Union (should there be a yes vote).

Ah hang on it is just some Lib Dem talking shite.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 7:04 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:Genius, Shetland is now considering leaving Scotland and remaining in the Union (should there be a yes vote).

Ah hang on it is just some Lib Dem talking shite.

But don't forget that Orkney and Shetland were electing Liberal MPs long before the 'Dem' was added (remember Jo Grimmond). This just could be the one time they're right.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 7:09 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
It's a case of Labour = Iraq = Mass murderer, I imagine.

Never mind that Labour (and not least Blair) brought about peace in Northern Ireland. The way the oh so very pro-Labour BBC has been talking about it recently you'd think it was all John Major and Iain Bloody (and I use the term advisedly) Paisley.

It's part of the nats' chant - "No more governments we didn't elect; no more WMD; no more illegal wars..."

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 7:14 pm

Goodnight, everyone.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 7:20 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Rebecca wrote:Well now,Salmond says that Scotland will be Englands new best friend.How stupid does he think we are?
Seriously?

The way he's talking today suggests he thinks a Yes vote is a long shot.

He's been saying this for ages - the relationship between England and Scotland will be improved with independence!

It's going to be so friendly that you'll underwrite our banks, subsidise our green energy, share research funding - oh, and your students won't mind paying fees which no other EU country pays.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 7:24 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
Rebecca wrote:Well now,Salmond says that Scotland will be Englands new best friend.How stupid does he think we are?
Seriously?

The way he's talking today suggests he thinks a Yes vote is a long shot.
He's been saying this for ages - the relationship between England and Scotland will be improved with independence!

It's going to be so friendly that you'll underwrite our banks, subsidise our green energy, share research funding - oh, and your students won't mind paying fees which no other EU country pays.

I think in the event of a yes vote he is going to be shocked by the attitude of rUK. He won't get anything out of the negotiations.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 7:34 pm

PorFavor wrote:Goodnight, everyone.

Night PF

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 7:38 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote: Seriously?

The way he's talking today suggests he thinks a Yes vote is a long shot.
He's been saying this for ages - the relationship between England and Scotland will be improved with independence!

It's going to be so friendly that you'll underwrite our banks, subsidise our green energy, share research funding - oh, and your students won't mind paying fees which no other EU country pays.
I think in the event of a yes vote he is going to be shocked by the attitude of rUK. He won't get anything out of the negotiations.

I agree - and I think the EU attitude will be similar to the UK's. He really is the worst person I can think of to lead any negotiations. It would need diplomacy and an element of humility - which are both foreign to Salmond. The best thing would be for him to stand down and call a Scottish election prior to negotiations.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 7:45 pm

To keep the little sanity I have left, I've made arrangements to be out for some of tomorrow. A nearby Tesco superstore has introduced a section of American foodstuffs so we're going to pop in, buy Mr Ohso a bottle of genuine American Root Beer, and then sit in Windsor Great Park for a couple of hours.The weather forecast isn't bad, so it's a last chance to catch some rays.
I'll break my embargo on giving Tesco any of my money just this once, because Mr Ohso is down in the dumps and missing Spike.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 7:48 pm

PorFavor wrote:Goodnight, everyone.

'Night PF.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 7:50 pm

ohsocynical wrote:To keep the little sanity I have left, I've made arrangements to be out for some of tomorrow. A nearby Tesco superstore has introduced a section of American foodstuffs so we're going to pop in, buy Mr Ohso a bottle of genuine American Root Beer, and then sit in Windsor Great Park for a couple of hours.The weather forecast isn't bad, so it's a last chance to catch some rays.
I'll break my embargo on giving Tesco any of my money just this once, because Mr Ohso is down in the dumps and missing Spike.

Brace yourself in the American section. The one near me has is and it's very expensive (I should never have bought the bacon popcorn).

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 7:55 pm

In the Scotsman;holiday companies in Scotland are saying that English people are cancelling their Scottish holidays,not just for this year but next as well.
This whole thing is going to damage the Scottish economy,even if there is a no vote.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 7:58 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 38371.html

Reading this made me go all warm and fuzzy

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 8:01 pm

Chris Bryant answering John Harris's ridiculous assertion that the hills and valleys of South Wales are alive with Welsh nationalism, complete balls. I'm a valley girl

either side of me is the Rhondda and the Dulais, where ''Pride'' was filmed, I don't recognise the rise in nationalism that he speaks off, maybe it's just another excuse to slag off Labour?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 8:05 pm

refitman wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:To keep the little sanity I have left, I've made arrangements to be out for some of tomorrow. A nearby Tesco superstore has introduced a section of American foodstuffs so we're going to pop in, buy Mr Ohso a bottle of genuine American Root Beer, and then sit in Windsor Great Park for a couple of hours.The weather forecast isn't bad, so it's a last chance to catch some rays.
I'll break my embargo on giving Tesco any of my money just this once, because Mr Ohso is down in the dumps and missing Spike.
Brace yourself in the American section. The one near me has is and it's very expensive (I should never have bought the bacon popcorn).

Thanks, but don't worry, I shall keep a very tight hold on my purse. There is a fancy garden centre near us which has a gourmet food section and they've started selling imported American food. We had a look around there a few months ago, so I know what to expect.

Did you read the contents labels on a lot of it? I reckon you'd need decontamination if you ate too much of it. It's a bottle of root beer and that's his lot

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 8:10 pm

Martin Rowson ‏@MartinRowson 3m
Trying to remember when I first described David Cameron in public as a useless fat pink fuck. Think it was do raffle at PEN Quiz 2011..

I think I love Martin Rowson.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 8:13 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Ok I have waxed lyrical, now judge for yourselves..

[youtube]J39bBV7CBJk[/youtube]

Yes Rebecca, the NO have been on the back foot when it comes to passionate arguments.

Excellent, what a speech.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 8:17 pm

yahyah wrote:I know I always lower the tone but as well as having a crush on Alastair Darling back in the day I used to find Gordon Brown sexy.
He reminded me of my first love who broke my heart, a Marxist who was ten years older than me and used to work in the international section of the TUC. [Hi if you're an FTNer Tom, too late mate I'm happily married now].

And are we in an alternate universe ?

The Mail headline:
'Barnstorming Brown delivers the speech of his career in passionate final plea to save the Union... so why wasn't he in charge of the No campaign from the start?'

He has said he would stand for the Scottish Parliament to attack the SNP lies on the NHS, wonder if he means either way, if Yes or No wins ?

Wouldn't it be a thing if Yes just scraped a victory and their first elected government under independence was a Labour one with Brown at the helm ?

Ed Miliband ,PM of Uk and Gordon Brown PM of Scotland.Now that would be a dream scenario.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 8:25 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Martin Rowson ‏@MartinRowson 3m
Trying to remember when I first described David Cameron in public as a useless fat pink fuck. Think it was do raffle at PEN Quiz 2011..

I think I love Martin Rowson.

As much as I love Martin's cartoons (and I really love them) his tweets are to die for. When he really kicks off on one of his rants (often telling la Mensch what he thinks of her) it is a joy to behold, a masterclass in profane evisceration.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 8:38 pm

Out of interest was Jamie Reed's question about Scotland's nuclear waste ever sorted or is it another one where UK will just do as told by The Big Fish?

This means waste from Hunterston and Torness reactors could be prevented from being stored at Sellafield and would have to be dealt with in Scotland instead.

http://www.itv.com/news/border/2014-07- ... ear-waste/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/s ... 208883.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 8:40 pm

Rebecca wrote:
yahyah wrote:I know I always lower the tone but as well as having a crush on Alastair Darling back in the day I used to find Gordon Brown sexy.
He reminded me of my first love who broke my heart, a Marxist who was ten years older than me and used to work in the international section of the TUC. [Hi if you're an FTNer Tom, too late mate I'm happily married now].

And are we in an alternate universe ?

The Mail headline:
'Barnstorming Brown delivers the speech of his career in passionate final plea to save the Union... so why wasn't he in charge of the No campaign from the start?'

He has said he would stand for the Scottish Parliament to attack the SNP lies on the NHS, wonder if he means either way, if Yes or No wins ?

Wouldn't it be a thing if Yes just scraped a victory and their first elected government under independence was a Labour one with Brown at the helm ?

Ed Miliband ,PM of Uk and Gordon Brown PM of Scotland.Now that would be a dream scenario.

Found this on Twitter. A shame but I can't say I blame him after the way he was hounded and vilified.

Faisal Islam ‏@faisalislam 10m
Me: enjoying this? GB: "entered campaign for one reason only, my children's future..But I have no desire to be back in frontline politics"

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 9:01 pm

Shetland may reconsider its place in Scotland after yes vote, says Carmichael
Scotland secretary says if the islands were to vote no but national vote was a yes, Shetland would consider its options

Now that would be a bit ...errm, sort of difficult for Salmond, remind me again where the oil fields are? (well not all but enough to make it a problem?) Can they do it? BTL seem to think not.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... carmichael" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Wed 17 Sep, 2014 9:08 pm

So, riot on the streets of Brixton or Tottenham, (rightly) experience some time at Her Majestys Pleasure; smash up a restaurant in Oxford, become PM and get a film glorifying your hijinks. Saw the poster for this on the way home tonight, have to admit to the use of a few choice profanities.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/se ... ge-elitism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;