Friday 26th June 2015

Post by **refitman** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 7:10 am

Morning all.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 8:19 am

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ta ... rc-5950469" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What they don't mention in the above article about HMRC not answering calls is that many of the people who do get through have been kept on hold for an unacceptably long time. When I rang the tax credits helpline I was warned in a recorded message that the queue was 20mins. I finally got through after 45mins. It cost me a fiver, but I had little choice because they had paid me an extra payment they hadn't informed me about at the time Natwest had a problem with payments so I couldn't be sure it was correct and there is no other way to contact them. It doesn't help that they don't give the bank a reference for each payment that can be matched to customers. I still haven't received written confirmation of my new payments, either.

Edited to add Morning all!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 9:06 am

Good morning.

I'm embarrassed that the UK has declined to take any of the migrants arriving in Europe.

On QT last night a panel member said that so far we had taken in just 167 refugees from Syria - Amber Rudd - Tory - denied this and insisted it was 4 to 5 thousand - only she said it in a way that first made it sound like 45 thousand and produced a gasp from the audience ...

Editing to add. With these kind of issues adding to the internal / social unrest now apparent in the EU - as discussed on QT last night - I can see more people veering to the Out position in the coming referendum. Giles Fraser declared he had now shifted to a better off Out position last night mainly because of the bullying of the Greeks and the growing inequality between the few countries benefiting and pulling the strings and the others being forced to do their bidding.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 9:13 am

Good morfternoon.

I know we've mentioned this before, but -

Cameron set to go to referendum without EU ratifying treaty changes

David Cameron is to hold a referendum on Britain’s EU membership without a guarantee that the EU’s other 27 member states will have ratified his proposed reforms by the time of the vote, British officials have acknowledged.

One EU diplomat described the prime minister’s intervention as “a commercial break”. The diplomat said: “There was a very emotional discussion on migration, and David Cameron gave us a commercial break."

The prime minister’s intervention lasted between eight and 10 minutes, and there were no responses from any of the other 27 EU heads of government. The president of the European council, Donald Tusk – who was chairing the summit – was the only person in the room who responded to Cameron.(Guardian)

This and the Northern Powerhouse Great Railway Disaster? I can't wait for George Osborne's forthcoming budget.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ty-changes

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 9:33 am

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -democrats" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is the first time in modern political history that a Conservative government has not also dominated the second chamber. The House of Lords Act 1999 removed the majority of hereditary peers, many of whom were Conservative supporters.

I have often seen the Lord's reform under New Labour dismissed in comments by people for whom anything Labour does is never enough, but I'm grateful for this small mercy, it really does make a difference and Cameron will struggle to squeeze enough new Tory peers into an already overstuffed house to nab back the advantage any time soon.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 9:49 am

Oh FFS!

What did I say the other day?

Apparently Suella Fernandes (chair at Michaela Communit School) and new Tory MP is going to sit on the Education Select Committee.

She was utterly appalling in the HoC the other day - she won't hear a bad word said against academies and free schools.

Morning all...bad mood now!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 9:58 am

What's the term / word for words that are used for activities / states that are exactly the opposite?

As in ...

'Free' schools - anything but, costing the taxpayer a packet.

'Controlled' shooting - anything but, no monitoring, lack of proper independent training and certification, allowed to get out and there and shoot badgers at will.

This is the government of that term ...

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 10:12 am

A conservative party that wrecks everything.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 10:20 am

john spellar ‏@spellar 37m37 minutes ago
Scottish ferry workers strike against SNP privatisation http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... sation-row" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 10:21 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Good morning.

I'm embarrassed that the UK has declined to take any of the migrants arriving in Europe.

On QT last night a panel member said that so far we had taken in just 167 refugees from Syria - Amber Rudd - Tory - denied this and insisted it was 4 to 5 thousand - only she said it in a way that first made it sound like 45 thousand and produced a gasp from the audience ...

Editing to add. With these kind of issues adding to the internal / social unrest now apparent in the EU - as discussed on QT last night - I can see more people veering to the Out position in the coming referendum. Giles Fraser declared he had now shifted to a better off Out position last night mainly because of the bullying of the Greeks and the growing inequality between the few countries benefiting and pulling the strings and the others being forced to do their bidding.

(my emphasis)

Ah!
I thought so!

Good-morning, everyone.

My pouring over Greece Creditor Demand Lists the last few days - demands include reducing Greek pensioner entitlements while luxury yacht buyers receive lower VAT on their purchase. I'm outraged. I'm supposed to be. These lists or 'leaks' are inflammatory documentation undermining Greek democracy. And there's a reason it's being advertised in the manner the subject has taken on in the news media. The Greek crisis & details of that & their humiliating terms serve a purpose. It's supposed to make people angry &/or afraid. I almost didn't post my Greek related comments. I'd a horrid feeling I'm being used. I'm not going to make Dave's Tory backbenchers' argument for them. Yet what's happening to Greece is wrong, in my opinion. Any country's people valuing their democratic right to government determining social security provision & despising 'Creditors' usurping that role for money are justly outraged by what's happening to Greece. We're also being terrorised by that awful Transatlantic Trade & Investment Partnership (TTIP) treaty.

I've learned a great deal from one of the worst outcomes I've ever experienced in my life - waking up on the eighth of May this year to a Tory government somehow finagling a small majority. People were & continue to be outright manipulated by media to produce outcomes. I knew before money spent on advertising & psychological persuasion is done because it works. I was nonetheless astounded.

I want the root of what's harming the sovereignty of Greek government - identify what fundamentally threatens all democratic nations, in the EU & outside it. I don't want to be deceived or see others misguided through machinations.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 10:23 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
john spellar ‏@spellar 37m37 minutes ago
Scottish ferry workers strike against SNP privatisation http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... sation-row" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

But......but........privatisation is something those nasty RED TORIES do!!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 10:28 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
john spellar ‏@spellar 37m37 minutes ago
Scottish ferry workers strike against SNP privatisation http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... sation-row" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
But......but........privatisation is something those nasty RED TORIES do!!

Disillusionments happen. We learn. We grow. We need to stand in solidarity with Scottish ferry workers.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 10:32 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
john spellar ‏@spellar 37m37 minutes ago
Scottish ferry workers strike against SNP privatisation http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... sation-row" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
But......but........privatisation is something those nasty RED TORIES do!!

Oh, you quaint old fuddy-duddy. Don't you know that tartan is the new red?

Edited to add

And I did, for a while at least, entertain the idea that Nicola Sturgeon was at least a bit genuinely left-ish. (It didn't last long.)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 10:32 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:A conservative party that wrecks everything.

'Kind' - I will leave you destitute and begging or worse, because it's 'for your own good'.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 10:33 am

Kevin Brennan ‏@KevinBrennanMP 52m52 minutes ago Cardiff, Wales
Did the Tories cover up the bad news on rail projects until after election? Even the Daily Mail has a dig http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... twork.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 10:37 am

@PaulfromYorkshire

How's tricks?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 10:40 am

I like the democratic parts of the European Union.
The statistical data from Eurostat.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 10:40 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Kevin Brennan ‏@KevinBrennanMP 52m52 minutes ago Cardiff, Wales
Did the Tories cover up the bad news on rail projects until after election? Even the Daily Mail has a dig http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... twork.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

I wrote to my MP Jason McCartney about this months ago. Specifically, I asked for confirmation that the promised Transpennine electrification project was still underway.

He assured me that during his business on the Transport Select Committee he had heard nothing to suggest that it would not progress. He also promised to update me if there was any news. Which he has not done.

It looks like I was right.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 10:42 am

Here's the Yorkshire Post article on this.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/mai ... -1-7327305" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

disaster-for-yorkshire-as-tories-break-election-promises-on-vital-rail-schemes

I hope the thousands who believed Osborne and his northern powerhouse bollocks are feeling thoroughly pissed off and reflecting on how gullible they were.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 10:48 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Here's the Yorkshire Post article on this.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/mai ... -1-7327305" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

disaster-for-yorkshire-as-tories-break-election-promises-on-vital-rail-schemes

I hope the thousands who believed Osborne and his northern powerhouse bollocks are feeling thoroughly pissed off and reflecting on how gullible they were.

Expecting them to make a whole of promises (well, repeat old promises ...) before the Welsh Assembly elections now ... and then renege on them - and blame Welsh Labour - in the week after the election. The coalition already played dirty about some of the rail infrastructure funding and the Welsh govt ended up having to stump up the costs to support the upgrades on branch / interconnecting lines.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 10:50 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Here's the Yorkshire Post article on this.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/mai ... -1-7327305" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

disaster-for-yorkshire-as-tories-break-election-promises-on-vital-rail-schemes

I hope the thousands who believed Osborne and his northern powerhouse bollocks are feeling thoroughly pissed off and reflecting on how gullible they were.

From the article - KPMG spokesperson says it's "regrettable"?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 10:55 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Here's the Yorkshire Post article on this.

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/mai ... -1-7327305" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

disaster-for-yorkshire-as-tories-break-election-promises-on-vital-rail-schemes

I hope the thousands who believed Osborne and his northern powerhouse bollocks are feeling thoroughly pissed off and reflecting on how gullible they were.

Can't help but think back to that Leeds Question Time with the leaders before the election ... wonder what the questions would be like from that supposedly canny, no nonsense audience if they were to replay that now?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 11:09 am

PorFavor wrote:@PaulfromYorkshire

How's tricks?

Morning!

Thanks for asking I'm very well thanks.

Still trying not to get too embroiled in politics - so much else to do - but one thing I'm finding really hard to get a handle on from the still fawning media is how Dave is actually getting on in his EU negotiations.

Any good pieces to look at?

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 11:23 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:What's the term / word for words that are used for activities / states that are exactly the opposite?

As in ...

'Free' schools - anything but, costing the taxpayer a packet.

'Controlled' shooting - anything but, no monitoring, lack of proper independent training and certification, allowed to get out and there and shoot badgers at will.

This is the government of that term ...

As in:-
"Compassionate, caring, competent Conservative Leadership"?

Nearest term i could find is Antipodal.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 11:29 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:A conservative party that wrecks everything.
'Kind' - I will leave you destitute and begging or worse, because it's 'for your own good'.

'Passionate about' - I couldn't care less.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 11:44 am

Actually this one's not too bad

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... referendum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

david-cameron-diplomacy-eu-referendum

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 11:48 am

And another influential leader has said Dave is doing very well in the negotiations.

Yes, the Prime Minister of Malta

(With all respect to the good folk of Malta)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 11:55 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Actually this one's not too bad

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... referendum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David-cameron-diplomacy-eu-referendum

Thanks for the link. But the bit which I have bolded made me titter. But the other bit of the paragraph is right enough.

In other European capitals there is some sympathy with the prime minister’s domestic predicament – the need to deliver on an election manifesto pledge and to satisfy a party whose Eurosceptic appetites are famously insatiable. (Guardian)

Edited to make sense. Ish.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 12:11 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:And another influential leader has said Dave is doing very well in the negotiations.

Yes, the Prime Minister of Malta

(With all respect to the good folk of Malta)

Presidency of the Council of the EU
The Council of the EU doesn't have a permanent, single-person president (like e.g. the
Commission or Parliament). Instead, its work is led by the country holding the Council
presidency, which rotates every 6 months.
During these 6 months, ministers from that country's government chair and help
determine the agenda of Council meetings in each policy area, and facilitate dialogue with
the other EU institutions.
Dates of Maltese presidencies:
Jan-Jun 2017

Don't know if this makes any difference?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 12:24 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:What's the term / word for words that are used for activities / states that are exactly the opposite?

As in ...

'Free' schools - anything but, costing the taxpayer a packet.

'Controlled' shooting - anything but, no monitoring, lack of proper independent training and certification, allowed to get out and there and shoot badgers at will.

This is the government of that term ...

Antonyminous? (Although I suspect that I might just have made that up.)

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 12:32 pm

PorFavor wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:What's the term / word for words that are used for activities / states that are exactly the opposite?

As in ...

'Free' schools - anything but, costing the taxpayer a packet.

'Controlled' shooting - anything but, no monitoring, lack of proper independent training and certification, allowed to get out and there and shoot badgers at will.

This is the government of that term ...
Antonyminous? (Although I suspect that I might just have made that up.)

that somehow reminded me of Tony Benn

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 12:33 pm

Patrick O'Flynn retweeted
Douglas Carswell MP ‏@DouglasCarswell 14h14 hours ago
Well done @SuzanneEvans1 for linking tax credits to corporate interests wanting public to subsidise low wages #BBCQT

Isn't it just bumboil making .... these right wing 'pro business' parties - Ukip and Tories - coming out to say this stuff now?

Imagine - just imagine - if Ed Miliband had said anything like Cameron's statements re employers being subsidised by the taxpayer via tax credits. He'd have been anti business, Stalinist, Red Ed ... stabbing everyone in the back, sides and front many times over.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 12:38 pm

Cuadrilla wins partial backing for Lancashire fracking
15 June 2015
Fracking should go ahead at a site in Lancashire, council planning officers recommended on Monday. But permission should be refused at a second site due to a “severe” impact on road safety caused by heavy lorries.

Lancashire has been at the forefront of the UK’s nascent shale gas industry, an issue that has divided opinion in the county. Cuadrilla have applied to carry out the country’s first full-scale fracking at Roseacre Wood and Preston New Road. Councillors will vote on whether to accept the planning officers’ recommendations on 23 and 25 June.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... e-fracking" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm confused.

Lancashire county council rejects Cuadrilla fracking bid
26 June 2015

Councillors have unanimously refused a planning application for fracking in Lancashire in a move which has been welcomed by environmental campaigners.
Lancashire County Council’s development control committee turned down Cuadrilla’s application to explore for shale gas by drilling, hydraulically fracking and testing the flow of gas at Roseacre Wood, Roseacre, between Preston and Blackpool.
The vote on Thursday was in line with recommendations by planning officials who said it should be turned down because it would cause an increase in traffic which would result in “an unacceptable impact” on rural roads and reduce road safety.
The committee has yet to reach a decision on a second proposal at Fylde, Lancashire, at Preston New Road, Little Plumpton, which planning officers have recommended should go ahead.
The decision on Preston New Road has been deferred to Monday.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... acking-bid" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(my bold)
The second story makes it sound as though the partial go-ahead is inaccurate.
I've got Lancashire council website information below.

Cuadrilla response:

In a statement, shale company Cuadrilla said: “We are disappointed but not surprised that Lancashire County Council’s development control committee has denied planning consent for our application at Roseacre Wood as their decision follows a negative recommendation by the council’s planning officers.
“We are committed to the responsible exploration and development of the huge quantity of natural gas locked up in the shale rock deep underneath Lancashire.
“We will now take time to consider our options, including our right to appeal.”

"Natural gas locked up" - Huge quantity of a fossil fuel Cuadrilla wants to release into Earth's atmosphere & don't let them tell you 'we don't let it escape into the atmosphere'.
It does. Ask any country that fracks.
Methane - CH4. Methane only takes a hundred years to dissipate from the atmosphere, true.
It's the most powerful greenhouse gas - a little methane does the work of a lot of CO2.

I've Lancashire's council website up & haven't read to find out the descrepancy of reporting.
I do hope they've turned it all down.
http://council.lancashire.gov.uk/ieList ... 4919&Ver=4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

edited in the hopes someone may read it abridged - apologies for lengthy posts.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 12:39 pm

Caroline Flint retweeted
Rural Labour ‏@rurallabouruk 12h12 hours ago
Laura Price winning in Cameron's backyard tonight #Witney
We love it !

Have we had a Labour council seat win in Witney?! Brilliant if we have.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 12:46 pm

Steve Bell.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... es-cartoon

Shouldn't laugh really. But this is brilliant!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 12:48 pm

Ian ‏@Mancman10 1 min1 minute ago

In 4 council byelections last night UKIP came last in all

#BubbleHasBurst

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 12:54 pm

Lancashire county council rejects Cuadrilla fracking bid

Councillors unanimously refuse planning application for fracking at Roseacre Wood, and will meet again on Monday to decide on Preston New Road site (Guardian)

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... acking-bid

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 1:03 pm

Dutch city of Utrecht to experiment with a universal, unconditional 'basic income'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 45595.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
... University College Utrecht has paired with the city to place people on welfare on a living income, to see if a system of welfare without requirements will be successful.

The Netherlands as a country is no stranger to less traditional work environments - it has the highest proportion of part time workers in the EU, 46.1 per cent. However, Utrecht's experiment with welfare is expected to be the first of its kind in the country...

Alderman for Work and Income Victor Everhardt told DeStad Utrecht: "One group is will have compensation and consideration for an allowance, another group with a basic income without rules and of course a control group which adhere to the current rules."

"Our data shows that less than 1.5 percent abuse the welfare, but, before we get into all kinds of principled debate about whether we should or should not enter, we need to first examine if basic income even really works.

"What happens if someone gets a monthly amount without rules and controls? Will someone sitting passively at home or do people develop themselves and provide a meaningful contribution to our society?"...

Interesting. I wonder how they will extrapolate - or not - how something tested on a specific set of people and in just one area - would perform in a whole systems / whole society context? That's a much bigger leap and has so many more variables. But I welcome this. It keeps the debate going - and could go some way to stop the relentless welfare bashing rhetoric depending on how it unfolds.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 1:11 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Caroline Flint retweeted
Rural Labour ‏@rurallabouruk 12h12 hours ago
Laura Price winning in Cameron's backyard tonight #Witney
We love it !
Have we had a Labour council seat win in Witney?! Brilliant if we have.

Haven't seen any reference to it in the usual places - town council election perhaps?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 1:12 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Lancashire county council rejects Cuadrilla fracking bid

Councillors unanimously refuse planning application for fracking at Roseacre Wood, and will meet again on Monday to decide on Preston New Road site (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... acking-bid

It's good isn't it? But I'm betting there will be a legal challenge ... and that various Tory levers are being pulled as we write.

Fracking, high speed rail, and halting of rail network upgrades ... not going well for Tory expectations so far. No wonder they made sure to get that Infrastructure Bill through with the help of the Lib Dems so they could get rid of some of those pesky rights of the public to challenge and redress.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 1:14 pm

BBC (TV) News -

The Court of Appeal has ruled (confirming an earlier ruling which was appealed) that the government's fast-track asylum system is unlawful. It is being described as a big blow to the government.

Ah - here's a link from the BBC News website -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33285443

Fast-track asylum appeal system suspended by Court of Appeal

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 1:15 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Caroline Flint retweeted
Rural Labour ‏@rurallabouruk 12h12 hours ago
Laura Price winning in Cameron's backyard tonight #Witney
We love it !
Have we had a Labour council seat win in Witney?! Brilliant if we have.
Haven't seen any reference to it in the usual places - town council election perhaps?

Here we go:

One Labour and two Conservative councillors elected to Witney Town Council
http://m.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/13355712 ... n_Council/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
TWO Conservatives and one Labour councillor have been elected onto Witney Town Council following a by-election yesterday.

The election was postponed from May 7 following the death of former town councillor Chrissie Curry in April.

Conservative Jane Marie Doughty was elected with 302 votes, David Harvey, also Conservative and Ms Curry’s former partner, took his seat with 289 votes and Labour councillor Laura Price was elected with 291 votes. The turnout was just 14.9 per cent.

Shocking turnout. Wouldn't pass muster if it was a trade union ballot ....

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 1:17 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:What's the term / word for words that are used for activities / states that are exactly the opposite?

As in ...

'Free' schools - anything but, costing the taxpayer a packet.

'Controlled' shooting - anything but, no monitoring, lack of proper independent training and certification, allowed to get out and there and shoot badgers at will.

This is the government of that term ...

Mmm I don't know about this particular government, rebecca, it's something that generally applies to Tories even their preferred schooling is called public for example. Best I could come up with was misnomer, although Boris would probably prefer lucus a non lucendo.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 1:28 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
PorFavor wrote:@PaulfromYorkshire

How's tricks?
Morning!

Thanks for asking I'm very well thanks.

Still trying not to get too embroiled in politics - so much else to do - but one thing I'm finding really hard to get a handle on from the still fawning media is how Dave is actually getting on in his EU negotiations.

Any good pieces to look at?

Came across this from Ryan Heath's Brussels Playbook: http://www.politico.eu/newsletter/playb ... pin-cycle/, which tends to be succinct and to the point, Paul. Other entries follow from previous days.

BREXIT DEBATE BLOW-BY-BLOW: Well, a single blow, really. David Cameron politely introduced the ideas of limited change he’d already spoken to the leaders about privately. He said the talks will move into a technical phase until December. And no one replied. According to Bruno Waterfield, “It was taken as a break from emotional migration debate.”

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 1:30 pm

Mental health workers protest at move to integrate clinic with jobcentre
Critics say plans for London clinic come dangerously close to government proposal to give psychological treatments to the unemployed
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... -streatham" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is there nowhere the Tories won't go ...?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 1:35 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Patrick O'Flynn retweeted
Douglas Carswell MP ‏@DouglasCarswell 14h14 hours ago
Well done @SuzanneEvans1 for linking tax credits to corporate interests wanting public to subsidise low wages #BBCQT
Isn't it just bumboil making .... these right wing 'pro business' parties - Ukip and Tories - coming out to say this stuff now?

Imagine - just imagine - if Ed Miliband had said anything like Cameron's statements re employers being subsidised by the taxpayer via tax credits. He'd have been anti business, Stalinist, Red Ed ... stabbing everyone in the back, sides and front many times over.

I think we have to be careful about equating tax credits alone with subsidising business. Tax cuts subsidise business in the same way, by allowing employees to take home greater pay without employers paying them more. If given a choice between the two, tax credits are preferable if your aim is to target help at those most in need rather than everyone, including those who don't require help.

Ukip and Tories are coming out with this now because they want to transfer this subsidy so that more of it is enjoyed by the wealthiest rather than the poorest.

Another point is that before the recession, tax credits were running at £9bn, after the recession at £30bn and now, after GDP has recovered to pre-recession levels, still as high as £27bn. The implication is that the economy has only recovered for the few, not the many. Rather than fix the underlying malfunction in our economy that has pushed the tax credit bill so high (if the economy was better run, with well paid jobs, the tax credit bill naturally recedes all by itself), the government is using the high cost of tax credits in an under-performing economy (that they have helped create with austerity) as an excuse to take away support from the poorest paid, support that had so successfully helped to reduce child poverty.

Or to put it more simply - Ed Miliband was ridiculed for suggesting low wages needed to be addressed in order to reduce the need for tax credits, while Cameron is admired for suggesting that taking away tax credits from people who need them will somehow magic that need away.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 1:59 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
PorFavor wrote:@PaulfromYorkshire

How's tricks?
Morning!

Thanks for asking I'm very well thanks.

Still trying not to get too embroiled in politics - so much else to do - but one thing I'm finding really hard to get a handle on from the still fawning media is how Dave is actually getting on in his EU negotiations.

Any good pieces to look at?

I saw a tv news clip yesterday of a British reporter asking Juncker if Cameron could get what he wants.
Juncker replied

What does he want?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 2:05 pm

gilsey wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
PorFavor wrote:@PaulfromYorkshire

How's tricks?
Morning!

Thanks for asking I'm very well thanks.

Still trying not to get too embroiled in politics - so much else to do - but one thing I'm finding really hard to get a handle on from the still fawning media is how Dave is actually getting on in his EU negotiations.

Any good pieces to look at?
I saw a tv news clip yesterday of a British reporter asking Juncker if Cameron could get what he wants.
Juncker replied
What does he want?

No one knows. Don't think Cameron does either - or care much. The question for him is more likely 'what can I get away with?'.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 2:08 pm

@Willow

Agree with your thoughts on the tax credits attacks by Tories and Ukip ... and the lack of any clear causal data re wages / tax credit 'burden' or, more importantly maybe, clear intention by the Tories to do something to address low wages that necessitate tax credits.

My point was really about the hypocrisy of these parties that claim to be so pro business and markets - and slagging off Miliband for pointing out the inequality and cost of living gaps and how certain business practices needed to change - now saying pretty much the same.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 26 Jun, 2015 2:11 pm

David Cameron plans EU campaign focusing on 'risky' impact of UK exit

David Cameron has set himself the “firm aim” of keeping Britain in the EU after running a referendum campaign that will focus on the “risky” consequences of a British exit, according to a leaked document of the prime minister’s negotiations. Guardian)

Oh, God. If anyone can cock this up, he can.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ct-uk-exit