Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th July 2015

Post by **refitman** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 7:43 am

Morning all.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 10:25 am

Just expressing my appreciation to those who remarked on my wife's demise yesterday. I know it's stuff I've mentioned before here and at the G in scattered or disjointed posts, but having mentioned my subsequent depression, there were other circumstances too. I prolapsed discs just a fortnight before my wife's brain haemorrhage, and then discovered a financial crisis that I should have averted,http://discussion.theguardian.com/comme ... k/53364518 at a time when I was already working reduced hours.

I just floated along until the crunch a few years later, immediately after the funeral of a second close friend within a few weeks. I knew of his wake, but hadn't been personally invited by his family. He was a client of mine so I'd been helping to sort his affairs. Instead of attending his wake I just went home and then it all came over me and I'd never felt so alone. Typical bloke, I was far too proud or ashamed, whichever way you see it, to admit I had a problem. Anyway I stopped paying my mortgage because I had some arrears so had no money to move on; I'd already been to County Court to agree terms then lost another client.

That was then. Today I still take anti-deoressants but the sun is shining. Besides my services are back in demand with no advertising. I haven't attacked my shock of hair yet as I feel rather attached, but must improve my presentation if for no other reason than renewing my passport. Anyway I shall be visiting and posting less than I did; I have much to do. Should I thank less frequently (time constraints) then please accept I do appreciate your posts and shall still follow most of the links.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 11:16 am

Good morfternoon.

Martin Rowson cartoon (link) -

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ms-cartoon

Sticky99 · Post by **Sticky99** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 11:23 am

Morning all,

It was an oxymoron reading today’s Times newspaper this morning. Cameron and co would love you to believe that the living wage (which isn’t really a living wage) is part of a package to help the low-paid. At the same time, Cameron supposedly wants to opt-out of certain EU employment directives. Most notably the working time directive and recently introduced protections for temporary workers, and that involves ending the ability for temporary workers to have the same common rights as permanent workers.

The most amusing part is that Tory backbencher’s aren’t even slightly impressed. Bernard Jenkin said that Dave’s proposal for opting out of certain EU employment laws isn’t worth the paper it is written on. Well at least he is right about something. Dave wants to scrap labour rights of some of the most vulnerable workers, which won’t even appease his right wingers. Madness.

Then there is the actual premise of such a move. The Agency Workers Regulations 2010 introduced so many wide-ranging rights for agency and temporary employees; it would be utterly indefensible to scrap the regulations that allow temporary workers to have a better working life. Paid holidays, rest breaks, the right to the minimum wage, no unlawful reductions from wages, the right to shared facilities that permanent workers use etc.

Unfortunately, many companies use temporary labour as a permanent strategy, particularly since the recession, therefore it is even more critical that these rights remain.

Of course the right-wing press will dress up any attempt to scrap EU temporary working rights as getting back powers to UK citizens. Far from it, the low-paid people in insecure employment who might read the Sun, Express etc need to know the truth – they will lose out massively.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 11:48 am

With more cuts to income to come for disabled people, the government is still adamant it can't possibly assess whether all the changes overall leave disabled people with enough to live on:

http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/os ... -benefits/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The chancellor, George Osborne, has refused to make any attempt to assess the overall impact on disabled people of his budget – and his next spending review – despite being urged to do so by the equality watchdog.

His refusal was confirmed by a senior civil servant just as Osborne was preparing to deliver a budget seen by many campaigners as another attack on disabled people’s living standards, in which he slashed future support for hundreds of thousands of people on out-of-work disability benefits.

And now they're going to use the same approach to child poverty - simply refuse to measure it.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 11:59 am

The "Andy 4 P.M 2020" account is tackling the mid staffs head on, judging by the statement on the top of the profile page

https://twitter.com/LabourNHSJAN?lang=en-gb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 11:59 am

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yet the more radical aspect of the new settlement is not the rate itself but the new link the chancellor has established between the minimum wage and median pay. Osborne has committed to a minimum wage (for the over 25s) worth 60 per cent of the median wage. This links the wages of the lowest paid adults in our economy to the wages of those in the middle. In an open and flexible labour market like the UK that is a radical institutional reform.

A radical reform, proposed by Ed Miliband and trashed by the very same people who are applauding Osborne for it now. Presumably because Ed Miliband wanted to keep the tax credits until wages replaced them, not have a big income gap of several years where lots of people will fall through a hole and possibly lose their homes. And of course, Ed would have included everyone, so no pool of young people to be exploited either. It's all in the details, isn't it. If Ed had done this, it would have been really good for all workers on low wages and so the media think this would have been a truly terrible thing and thank goodness he didn't win the election. When Osborne implements the same policy, however, he manages to do it in such a way that a lot of people will actually be worse off, and, of course, this is wonderful and Osborne is very clever.

:sigh: The world's gone mad.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 12:00 pm

Why was the lefty BBC leading with an item about noble Dave standing up to cruel call-centres preying on vulnerable people on behalf of charities instead of his assault on workers' rights? The lead item was replete with quotes from our stern but statesmanlike leader promising action on this important issue. Well, yes, it is important, but not as important as something which will hit millions of families very hard. I've given up on the BBC.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 12:12 pm

Willow904 wrote:With more cuts to income to come for disabled people, the government is still adamant it can't possibly assess whether all the changes overall leave disabled people with enough to live on:

http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/os ... -benefits/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The chancellor, George Osborne, has refused to make any attempt to assess the overall impact on disabled people of his budget – and his next spending review – despite being urged to do so by the equality watchdog.

His refusal was confirmed by a senior civil servant just as Osborne was preparing to deliver a budget seen by many campaigners as another attack on disabled people’s living standards, in which he slashed future support for hundreds of thousands of people on out-of-work disability benefits.
And now they're going to use the same approach to child poverty - simply refuse to measure it.

To be fair, Willow, they're not refusing to measure child poverty but changing it and there are valid arguments for doing so. However that does not excuse the fact that they shall use new measures to deceive. IDS and the DWP do come to mind on refusing to measure. I don't remember the detail but once IDS took over the department there was much that was no longer recorded ostensibly for efficiency savings.

Well Messrs IDS, Cameron, Osborne et al with your meaningless qualifications when it comes to data and the like, I am/was a data specialist not that I need to be to make such simple observations during the information age. Hasn't anybody told you that there are advantages to real-time collection of data for later analysis whether you like the results or not. Apparently Theresa and the intelligence services keep hinting as much. 'And on that note Cameron, your internet trawling is detrimental to international trade. An Oxford First for our acting PM and Modern History for our Chancellor? Whatever their shrewd and clever games I cannot help feeling they're actually rather thick.

Edit: pluralised Mr. & corrected a spurious you're to your.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 12:19 pm

frightful_oik wrote:Why was the lefty BBC leading with an item about noble Dave standing up to cruel call-centres preying on vulnerable people on behalf of charities instead of his assault on workers' rights? The lead item was replete with quotes from our stern but statesmanlike leader promising action on this important issue. Well, yes, it is important, but not as important as something which will hit millions of families very hard. I've given up on the BBC.

Thick or not he does do some things successfully, frightful, even if I disapprove, using the Beeb like a Facebook account for example. I can barely wait for tomorrow's update.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 12:45 pm

utopiandreams wrote:
Willow904 wrote:With more cuts to income to come for disabled people, the government is still adamant it can't possibly assess whether all the changes overall leave disabled people with enough to live on:

http://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/os ... -benefits/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The chancellor, George Osborne, has refused to make any attempt to assess the overall impact on disabled people of his budget – and his next spending review – despite being urged to do so by the equality watchdog.

His refusal was confirmed by a senior civil servant just as Osborne was preparing to deliver a budget seen by many campaigners as another attack on disabled people’s living standards, in which he slashed future support for hundreds of thousands of people on out-of-work disability benefits.
And now they're going to use the same approach to child poverty - simply refuse to measure it.
To be fair, Willow, they're not refusing to measure child poverty but changing it and there are valid arguments for doing so. However that does not excuse the fact that they shall use new measures to deceive. IDS and the DWP do come to mind on refusing to measure. I don't remember the detail but once IDS took over the department there was much that was no longer recorded ostensibly for efficiency savings.

Well Messrs IDS, Cameron, Osborne et al with your meaningless qualifications when it comes to data and the like, I am/was a data specialist not that I need to be to make such simple observations during the information age. Hasn't anybody told you that there are advantages to real-time collection of data for later analysis whether you like the results or not. Apparently Theresa and the intelligence services keep hinting as much. 'And on that note Cameron, your internet trawling is detrimental to international trade. An Oxford First for our acting PM and Modern History for our Chancellor? Whatever their shrewd and clever games I cannot help feeling they're actually rather thick.

Edit: pluralised Mr. & corrected a spurious you're to your.

There are valid reasons to add more measures of child poverty to get a more detailed picture I agree, but only one reason to remove the current measure completely - and that is so there are no like for like numbers by which to measure the impact on child poverty of current budget policies.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 12:49 pm

frightful_oik wrote:Why was the lefty BBC leading with an item about noble Dave standing up to cruel call-centres preying on vulnerable people on behalf of charities instead of his assault on workers' rights? The lead item was replete with quotes from our stern but statesmanlike leader promising action on this important issue. Well, yes, it is important, but not as important as something which will hit millions of families very hard. I've given up on the BBC.

Because it was a campaign started by the Daily Mail.

But of course The Guardian sets the agenda on politics - always has, always will...

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 3:26 pm

Is it safe to assume that a lot of you are watching back-stabbing Serena Williams?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 3:29 pm

Or just that it is such a nice day generally, so people are making the most of it?

Weekly election review will hopefully appear later today, something for you all to look forward to

Post by **refitman** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 3:29 pm

PorFavor wrote:Is it safe to assume that a lot of you are watching back-stabbing Serena Williams?

Ashes for me.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 3:36 pm

Housework.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 3:38 pm

PorFavor wrote:Is it safe to assume that a lot of you are watching back-stabbing Serena Williams?

Ha! I was making those back stabbing comparisons in my mind as I watched PF. How dare she, how very dare she!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 3:42 pm

At a Preseli Pembs branch meeting this morning. How great to finally properly meet and have a chat with Pembs Paul. What a lovely guy - just as I thought he would be.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 4:11 pm

I was delighted to hear the Chancellor George Osborne confirm a compulsory Living Wage for all over 25s in this year’s budget.

From my Tory MP. Question is, is there any point in my writing to put her right?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 4:18 pm

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 4:18 pm

frightful_oik wrote:
I was delighted to hear the Chancellor George Osborne confirm a compulsory Living Wage for all over 25s in this year’s budget.
From my Tory MP. Question is, is there any point in my writing to put her right?

Yeah - just to let her know that you know she's talking bollocks and she knows it.

I think the Brian May style of politics is the way to go now - tell them when they are talking bollocks.

On the way back from the branch meeting this morning Mr Riots hit the nail on the head re Labour during and after the election - they've lost the ability to streetfight - pretty much everything is careful and defensive - that just won't work anymore (if it ever did).

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 4:34 pm

The absence of Ken Clarke from the Tory benches during the budget was noted, and the fact he pulled out of a scheduled appearance at BBC's Question Time increased the speculation.

Turns out that it was not his own health at issue, though - his wife of over 50 years has just died. Commiserations.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 4:38 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:
I was delighted to hear the Chancellor George Osborne confirm a compulsory Living Wage for all over 25s in this year’s budget.
From my Tory MP. Question is, is there any point in my writing to put her right?
Yeah - just to let her know that you know she's talking bollocks and she knows it.

I think the Brian May style of politics is the way to go now - tell them when they are talking bollocks.

That's one of the reasons why I like Angela Eagle. She comes really very close to saying exactly that to her opponents. I think she's got a large dollop of street-fighter in her.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 4:57 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:The absence of Ken Clarke from the Tory benches during the budget was noted, and the fact he pulled out of a scheduled appearance at BBC's Question Time increased the speculation.

Turns out that it was not his own health at issue, though - his wife of over 50 years has just died. Commiserations.

My condolences to Ken Clarke (should he happen to read here!)

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 5:19 pm

Since I'm having a little break I'll finalise, well I say finalise, my tale of sinking into depression. I nearly did recently when it was at the forefront of TV news. Although the darkness engulfed me after my mate's funeral, the former one was my best friend who I'd been avoiding, I was not suicidal till much, much later.

Albeit extremely hard-working, decreasing profitability had played a part in his familial breakdown. He was insolvent, alone and out of work. I expect pride had a role in his never coming round to me, something I kept demanding when I slipped him the odd ill-afforded cash to buy food. I was struggling myself and his depression didn't exactly help, hence my staying away. I could easliy afford an extra plate rather than dipping into my pocket, not that he ever asked for any. His wife and daughter, who almost lived opposite, arrived at my door saying he'd been found after a heart attack. I felt I'd let him down.

I still had my sons with me and was responsible for my Downs Syndrome daughter. The eldest was having kidney problems, in and out of Birmingham hospital, my youngest had left work after dropping out of A levels, first school then college (where I worked at the time) and wouldn't sign on. I was concerned and had mentioned him to our doctor when I bumped into her one day; she insisted being an adult he must approach them . Anyway mortgage arrears and loss of a regular client (additional work via his recommendations too) was the final straw.

I found a rambling, white, detached Georgian property for rent in decent grounds in the next county, which was ideal for continuing my lifestyle but my daughter had less day centre provision had we moved county, so I put a deposit on a local place with a private courtyard, which would have accommodated my office in the entrance hallway. That fell through by the time I had to move, panic overcrowding was to follow, eventual loss of my OU work and no dole because I supposedly had savings.

I was advised to claim ICA as carer for my daughter but by that time had arranged her accommodation elsewhere; a couple caring for her and two of her friends, also attendants of the Day Centre where the woman had previously worked. As far as JSA was concerned I was told it were a temporary benefit between jobs and I was expected to live off my savings...

I was pretty low by then, putting it mildly. Chronic pain didn't help matters either. Boo hoo. I've seen some things said of depression by people who obviously don't understand, btl in the Guardian can be an eye-opener. I never felt sorry for myself or even particularly sad, but shame and anger; it is not a healthy place to be.

Bloody hell. Cheer up, utopian! Did I tell you it's my youngest's 30th today? He popped into a local shop with me the other day and there was a special purchase PG Tips with Monkey for sale. I needed some tea bags anyway so made a big show of buying Monkey for his birthday. I gave it to my granddaughter yesterday and she loves him.

Cheers. Time for some fun.

Sorry for a late edit but replacing 'just angry, but' with 'but shame and anger'. Cheers.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 5:20 pm

Just noticed the double post after a hang. I deliberately avoided Submit again and pressed F5. Still resent I guess.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 5:29 pm

PorFavor wrote:Is it safe to assume that a lot of you are watching back-stabbing Serena Williams?

Hiking with my husband.

It's lovely now, the weather here, it's raining gently.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 5:45 pm

Paul Flynn ‏@PaulFlynnMP 8m8 minutes ago Newport, Wales
Tory MP said in Commons that draghunting was 'like kisssing your sister' and no substitute for fox killing. i.e. the kill is the thrill.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 5:50 pm

: Trump Trumps Himself.jpg (43.83 KiB) Viewed 6790 times

Stephen Mangan ‏@StephenMangan 6h6 hours ago
You stay classy, Donald (via @giagia)

Please someone tell me the USA media is full on denouncing the possibility that this man could be selected as a presidential candidate ... please.

The USA wouldn't be that daft, would they?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 6:00 pm

Even the GOP isn't that mental........probably.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 6:04 pm

@utopiandreams: Thanks. Would it be daft to congratulate you for getting through all that's been landed on you/thrown your way? I do, anyroad. And to wish you felicitations on the 30th birthday of your youngest child – with a Happy Birthday to him, too. That shock of hair? If you like it, claim it an image trademark

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 6:14 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:
I was delighted to hear the Chancellor George Osborne confirm a compulsory Living Wage for all over 25s in this year’s budget.
From my Tory MP. Question is, is there any point in my writing to put her right?
Yeah - just to let her know that you know she's talking bollocks and she knows it.

I think the Brian May style of politics is the way to go now - tell them when they are talking bollocks.

On the way back from the branch meeting this morning Mr Riots hit the nail on the head re Labour during and after the election - they've lost the ability to streetfight - pretty much everything is careful and defensive - that just won't work anymore (if it ever did).

I so agree with this!

What I do not understand about our current batch of Labour politicians (with some exceptions such as Angela Eagle & Stella Creasey amongst others) is this need to come over as all things to all men/women. This approach is always doomed to fail.They should be fully aware that the Tories play get down and dirty and the last election proved, if nothing else, you get nothing by being Mr nice guy/lady.

I was and am a great admirer of Ed Miliband and wish he was still leader. Osborne has proved in the budget that Labour under Miliband won the battle of ideas. His failing, in my opinion, was not to take on the people, who had proved many times that they would never give him a decent crack of the whip. The Tories, the Orange bookers, the written press and yes, even the BBC should have been viewed at the least as antagonists if not the enemy and should have been attacked in similar fashion when they attacked him. If that meant playing the man not the ball so be it because that was what they were doing to him.

Senior Labour politicians should in future discount any thought as to what the Daily Mail will say and be bold, honest about their own beliefs and try to get under the skin of those who attack them. No one should be under any illusions that BBC interviewers (La Kunnesburg,Humphries,Robinson,Stratton,Dimbleby etc.) see each interview as a battle of wills and a chance to further their own careers. Labour politicians should take them to task over snide or unwarranted comments and treat them to some of their own medicine.

This I accept may upset some voters (and even some here) but we should never underestimate the voter. They are crying out to see a Labour Party full of radical ideas, fight and prepared to yes, get down and dirty, fighting on their behalf not accepting their role is to be as sacrificial lambs. Once its understood the Tories don't play by the Queensbury rules then we are on the way to win in 2020.

Sorry for the rant but this has been bugging me for some time.................

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 6:15 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Trump Trumps Himself.jpg

Stephen Mangan ‏@StephenMangan 6h6 hours ago
You stay classy, Donald (via @giagia)
Please someone tell me the USA media is full on denouncing the possibility that this man could be selected as a presidential candidate ... please.

The USA wouldn't be that daft, would they?

Yes.

The Donald isn't still somewhere in the UK, is he?
He's gone, right?
Please tell me he's gone away.
He's got issues.
Yucky.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 6:23 pm

Down and Out in Athens and Brussels
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commen ... hs-2015-07" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Worth a read.

We see a European system of crisis management that is fraught with ineptitude, extreme politicization, gamesmanship, and unprofessionalism. I certainly do not mean to excuse Greek clientelism, corruption, and mismanagement as ultimate causes of the country’s predicament. Yet the failure of the European institutions is more alarming.

Yes. Greece is 2% of the Eurozone, or something like that, but the EU couldn't deal with it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 6:32 pm

PorFavor wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
frightful_oik wrote: From my Tory MP. Question is, is there any point in my writing to put her right?
Yeah - just to let her know that you know she's talking bollocks and she knows it.

I think the Brian May style of politics is the way to go now - tell them when they are talking bollocks.

That's one of the reasons why I like Angela Eagle. She comes really very close to saying exactly that to her opponents. I think she's got a large dollop of street-fighter in her.

I've met her & heard her speak, Angela Eagle.
My appreciation & admiration for Eagle grows the more I read & listen to her.
I can't say enough good about her.
Try to get to an event to hear her speak if you can.
She's straightforward, intelligent, imperturbable, balanced, authentic & trustworthy.
Angela Eagle's confidence & equanimity I'd like to cultivate in myself.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 6:44 pm

ScarletGas wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
frightful_oik wrote: From my Tory MP. Question is, is there any point in my writing to put her right?
Yeah - just to let her know that you know she's talking bollocks and she knows it.

I think the Brian May style of politics is the way to go now - tell them when they are talking bollocks.

On the way back from the branch meeting this morning Mr Riots hit the nail on the head re Labour during and after the election - they've lost the ability to streetfight - pretty much everything is careful and defensive - that just won't work anymore (if it ever did).
I so agree with this!

What I do not understand about our current batch of Labour politicians (with some exceptions such as Angela Eagle & Stella Creasey amongst others) is this need to come over as all things to all men/women. This approach is always doomed to fail.They should be fully aware that the Tories play get down and dirty and the last election proved, if nothing else, you get nothing by being Mr nice guy/lady.

I was and am a great admirer of Ed Miliband and wish he was still leader. Osborne has proved in the budget that Labour under Miliband won the battle of ideas. His failing, in my opinion, was not to take on the people, who had proved many times that they would never give him a decent crack of the whip. The Tories, the Orange bookers, the written press and yes, even the BBC should have been viewed at the least as antagonists if not the enemy and should have been attacked in similar fashion when they attacked him. If that meant playing the man not the ball so be it because that was what they were doing to him.

Senior Labour politicians should in future discount any thought as to what the Daily Mail will say and be bold, honest about their own beliefs and try to get under the skin of those who attack them. No one should be under any illusions that BBC interviewers (La Kunnesburg,Humphries,Robinson,Stratton,Dimbleby etc.) see each interview as a battle of wills and a chance to further their own careers. Labour politicians should take them to task over snide or unwarranted comments and treat them to some of their own medicine.

This I accept may upset some voters (and even some here) but we should never underestimate the voter. They are crying out to see a Labour Party full of radical ideas, fight and prepared to yes, get down and dirty, fighting on their behalf not accepting their role is to be as sacrificial lambs. Once its understood the Tories don't play by the Queensbury rules then we are on the way to win in 2020.

Sorry for the rant but this has been bugging me for some time.................

Doesn't offend me at all - there's all kinds of merit in what you're writing about.
I feel the same way - the hell with it - Labour, just say it, honestly, out with it - integrity & competence (Ed Miliband) combined with vehemence, vocalised indignation & a proper slap-down of lies.

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 6:56 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Trump Trumps Himself.jpg

Stephen Mangan ‏@StephenMangan 6h6 hours ago
You stay classy, Donald (via @giagia)
Please someone tell me the USA media is full on denouncing the possibility that this man could be selected as a presidential candidate ... please.

The USA wouldn't be that daft, would they?

This is so much a non-story that it amazes me that people still give it house space. Trump won't stand, for the very simple reason that he doesn't actually want to be President, and nobody would elect him anyway. I have as much realistic chance of being President and I'm not American, so I'm disqualified. It's all about publicity because everybody knows that he'd be so great a disaster in the job that Warren Harding would be redeemed.

Talking about this is just a waste of breath.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 6:57 pm

frightful_oik wrote:
I was delighted to hear the Chancellor George Osborne confirm a compulsory Living Wage for all over 25s in this year’s budget.
From my Tory MP. Question is, is there any point in my writing to put her right?

Yes.
Make sure that quote came out of your Tory MPs mouth.
Don't get me wrong, I know the Tories are appropriating 'the living wage' as though what they're offering is the living wage when it's not the living wage as confirmed by the Living Wage Foundation.
I found this linked below:

“Today’s Budget confirms what the Prime Minister said after the General Election, that we would be a government for all in Britain, for One Nation. The Chancellor confirmed and delivered our manifesto promise to increase the National Minimum Wage incrementally to £9 by 2020, and that starting in April 2016 it will stand at £7.20 an hour.

Introducing the Living Wage is absolutely the right thing to do. We have gone further for people on lower incomes that also have the assurance of the Chancellor that the Personal Tax Allowance will always increase along with the Minimum Wage.

Furthermore with the increase in the amount you can earn, before you pay Income Tax, will rise from £10,600 to £11,000. This will save the average taxpayer an extra £80 a year, which means average earners, will be paying £905 less in tax than when I was first elected in 2010.

http://www.southderbyshireconservatives ... t-thing-do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 7:18 pm

Chris Bryant MP ‏@RhonddaBryant 1h1 hour ago
Really sad to hear that Ken Clarke has lost his wife Gillian. A really lovely and very funny lady.

That's good to see. I have found myself wondering if Ken Clarke has children - and hoping he has so he has others around with shared experiences and memories of her and take them forward. 50 years is a long partnership.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 7:22 pm

citizenJA wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:
I was delighted to hear the Chancellor George Osborne confirm a compulsory Living Wage for all over 25s in this year’s budget.
From my Tory MP. Question is, is there any point in my writing to put her right?
Yes.
Make sure that quote came out of your Tory MPs mouth.
Don't get me wrong, I know the Tories are appropriating 'the living wage' as though what they're offering is the living wage when it's not the living wage as confirmed by the Living Wage Foundation.
I found this linked below:
“Today’s Budget confirms what the Prime Minister said after the General Election, that we would be a government for all in Britain, for One Nation. The Chancellor confirmed and delivered our manifesto promise to increase the National Minimum Wage incrementally to £9 by 2020, and that starting in April 2016 it will stand at £7.20 an hour.

Introducing the Living Wage is absolutely the right thing to do. We have gone further for people on lower incomes that also have the assurance of the Chancellor that the Personal Tax Allowance will always increase along with the Minimum Wage.

Furthermore with the increase in the amount you can earn, before you pay Income Tax, will rise from £10,600 to £11,000. This will save the average taxpayer an extra £80 a year, which means average earners, will be paying £905 less in tax than when I was first elected in 2010.

http://www.southderbyshireconservatives ... t-thing-do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My MP too, гражданка, she's just a Tory mouthpiece. I only recently found out that she used to be on the council so have asked others about her. Not one of them had a good word to say of her. Whether that reflects more on me is open to question.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 7:53 pm

Page 3 girls and UKIP donations: Inside the mind of Liverpool’s Lyceum owner
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... ns-9628924" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Poundland Donald Trump? Enjoy. (As the nervous celebrity masterchef contestants inevitably say with a mix of desperation and hope after placing their offerings in front of the critic diners ... and it irritates me every time).

Post by **refitman** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 8:01 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Trump Trumps Himself.jpg

Stephen Mangan ‏@StephenMangan 6h6 hours ago
You stay classy, Donald (via @giagia)
Please someone tell me the USA media is full on denouncing the possibility that this man could be selected as a presidential candidate ... please.

The USA wouldn't be that daft, would they?

There is an issue with some left(ish)-wing activists in the US making up quotes and chucking them out on twitter. For all his insanity, I would say that this is not a Trump quote.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 8:04 pm

refitman wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Trump Trumps Himself.jpg

Stephen Mangan ‏@StephenMangan 6h6 hours ago
You stay classy, Donald (via @giagia)
Please someone tell me the USA media is full on denouncing the possibility that this man could be selected as a presidential candidate ... please.

The USA wouldn't be that daft, would they?
There is an issue with some left(ish)-wing activists in the US making up quotes and chucking them out on twitter. For all his insanity, I would say that this is not a Trump quote.

I do hope you are right.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 8:16 pm

Kevin Maguire ‏@Kevin_Maguire 8m8 minutes ago
Mr T Driver, Rosa Luxemburg & Antonio Gramsci booked then cancelled late at anti-tube strike posh London restaurant! http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-bf ... ti-strike-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 8:16 pm

Not watched this yet as I've been out all day

A huge thank you to @andyburnhammp for giving up his time to let me ask him a few questions - here's the interview " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 8:30 pm

Eight local council byelections this week - a mixed bag, but one constant was UKIP tanking everywhere:

Gwynedd - Plaid Cymru hold, beating the sole localist "Llais Gwynedd" opposition with over 70% of the vote - a swing of over 5% away from Plaid since 2012 but a significant move towards them since 2008 when it was also a straight fight. They have also strengthened their position since 2004 when they were pressed strongly by an Independent - this is their Welsh-speaking heartland and they seem fully dominant here again.

East Sussex CC/Hastings DC - three contests here in all, the first two being a "double header" (though, confusingly, in different areas) caused by the death of the Labour incumbent; the county seat (Labour held even in 2009) saw a tiny swing to Labour since 2013 as both they and the Tories advanced whilst UKIP, second back then, saw their share more than halved to just 10%. Not far behind were the Greens, who were up very slightly, whilst the LibDems were last dropping to less than 3%. Labour held their district seat (again always won by them in the past decade, though it was fairly close on occasions) they were defending, though with a swing of 10% to the Tories - the intervention of an Independent who scored nearly 17% seems to have had an impact here. UKIP again seeing their vote more than halved as they dropped to just 7%, only two votes ahead of the Greens who held up much better; LibDems again last with less than 2%, again a new low. The final vacancy here was a Tory hold in a ward that has often been marginal in recent years, though Labour have only managed to win it once (in 2012, by just two votes) On this occasion there was a tiny pro-Tory swing since 2014 as both they and Labour went up a bit, Labour may be frustrated that the LibDems actually managed to advance a bit on here since last year (though still to less than 9%) UKIP falling even further here than in the other two, though still ahead of the Greens who got 3% in their first outing here.

North Lanarkshire - SNP hold, though that is (not for the first time in Scottish by elections) a bit misleading as they held onto their seat in a division which had split 2Lab/1SNP in 2012 with Labour outpolling the Nats by over 2 to 1% - a swing of some 25% since then saw the SNP edge Labour out after transfers. Tories - the only others to stand in 2012 and 2008 - down slightly on last time (another effect of the SNP "explosion" has been to snuff out the Tory mini-revival north of the border) whilst quite a few others showed their hand this time to little effect - Socialist, Green, Christian and lastly UKIP (with less than 1%)

Hyndburn DC - Labour hold, with a small swing to them since this ward (which has always voted Labour since the 2004 boundary changes, and usually comfortably so) was last contested in 2014 though there have been swings to the Tories since 2012 and 2010; to some extent internal Asian politics have been at work here in the last few polls so Labour will likely be happy with this result. UKIP again seeing a significant drop on last year to less than 10%, Greens barely managing 1% in their first attempt here.

Hounslow - Labour hold, increasing their share to over half and beating the Tories by roughly 2 to 1 (though there was a small swing to the latter as they advanced markedly on last year as well) This has not always been safe for Labour, as they dropped one of 3 seats here to the LibDems in 2006 and to a local protest candidate in 2002, but they are well established now. Greens retaining their third spot from 2014, but down significantly on then, followed by the LibDems who crashed here last time after still managing a good second in 2010 and dropped further this time. But they still just edged out UKIP, who again dropped by more than half since their last outing and fell to last.

Sandwell - Labour hold, with a decent swing from the Tories since this May as they came close to 60% of the vote. This had been a LibDem stronghold in recent years until 2010 (apart from a by-election loss to Labour in early 2008) but since them both local defections (the Labour winner was a former LibDem activist) and the effect of coalition basically wiped them out (as in the borough more widely) They last stood in 2014 when they came a poor fourth, and have not troubled the scorer on either occasion this year. UKIP partially filled the vacuum they had left and came a good second last year, but dropped back to third two months ago and fell further now to less than 16%. Greens tried their luck for the first time since 2008, but got less than 2%.

Eight contests again next week.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 8:43 pm

Some of the comments BTL on this find a new low ...

Budget 2015: Women who have been raped may have to prove assault for third child tax credits
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 82434.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CARTIMANDUA 6 hours ago
Then they should have had an abortion. That is what normal people would do if pregnant by a rape.

'Normal' - the latest separatist term - possibly the most chilling yet - to sit alongside 'hard working' and 'ordinary'.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 8:52 pm

ScarletGas wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
frightful_oik wrote: From my Tory MP. Question is, is there any point in my writing to put her right?
Yeah - just to let her know that you know she's talking bollocks and she knows it.

I think the Brian May style of politics is the way to go now - tell them when they are talking bollocks.

On the way back from the branch meeting this morning Mr Riots hit the nail on the head re Labour during and after the election - they've lost the ability to streetfight - pretty much everything is careful and defensive - that just won't work anymore (if it ever did).
I so agree with this!

What I do not understand about our current batch of Labour politicians (with some exceptions such as Angela Eagle & Stella Creasey amongst others) is this need to come over as all things to all men/women. This approach is always doomed to fail.They should be fully aware that the Tories play get down and dirty and the last election proved, if nothing else, you get nothing by being Mr nice guy/lady.

I was and am a great admirer of Ed Miliband and wish he was still leader. Osborne has proved in the budget that Labour under Miliband won the battle of ideas. His failing, in my opinion, was not to take on the people, who had proved many times that they would never give him a decent crack of the whip. The Tories, the Orange bookers, the written press and yes, even the BBC should have been viewed at the least as antagonists if not the enemy and should have been attacked in similar fashion when they attacked him. If that meant playing the man not the ball so be it because that was what they were doing to him.

Senior Labour politicians should in future discount any thought as to what the Daily Mail will say and be bold, honest about their own beliefs and try to get under the skin of those who attack them. No one should be under any illusions that BBC interviewers (La Kunnesburg,Humphries,Robinson,Stratton,Dimbleby etc.) see each interview as a battle of wills and a chance to further their own careers. Labour politicians should take them to task over snide or unwarranted comments and treat them to some of their own medicine.

This I accept may upset some voters (and even some here) but we should never underestimate the voter. They are crying out to see a Labour Party full of radical ideas, fight and prepared to yes, get down and dirty, fighting on their behalf not accepting their role is to be as sacrificial lambs. Once its understood the Tories don't play by the Queensbury rules then we are on the way to win in 2020.

Sorry for the rant but this has been bugging me for some time.................

I agree with you wholeheartedly, @ScarletGas. It could not hurt to challenge Tories on panels who crow (or interviewers who do the same,) "But you planned to do the same – we'd think you should be pleased." with, "You have taken carefully thought out and costed plans from our manifesto but added particularly cruel twists to them so that they can no longer do the good they would have done under a Labour Government." They have to be taken to task over perpetrating a fraud by calling an increased over-25s' National Minimum Wage a 'Living Wage' when it is nothing of the sort.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 8:59 pm

That interview with AB is good, well worth a hearing.

But what's going on here ??

Alex Andreou ‏@sturdyAlex · 1 min1 minute ago
New twist. Coalition partner in Finland, withdraws support. Finnish gov't on brink of collapse. Minister no longer authorised to negotiate.

"Finnish gov't on brink of collapse" - since when and why - anyone know more?

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 9:09 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Some of the comments BTL on this find a new low ...

Budget 2015: Women who have been raped may have to prove assault for third child tax credits
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 82434.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

CARTIMANDUA 6 hours ago
Then they should have had an abortion. That is what normal people would do if pregnant by a rape.
'Normal' - the latest separatist term - possibly the most chilling yet - to sit alongside 'hard working' and 'ordinary'.

When you read opinions like that from CARTIMANDUA, you start to consider seriously a culling of the population.