Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th July 2015

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 9:58 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:That interview with AB is good, well worth a hearing.

But what's going on here ??

Alex Andreou ‏@sturdyAlex · 1 min1 minute ago
New twist. Coalition partner in Finland, withdraws support. Finnish gov't on brink of collapse. Minister no longer authorised to negotiate.

"Finnish gov't on brink of collapse" - since when and why - anyone know more?

Good god ... I go away for a spot of mindless TV and a government goes under ... no idea what this is about. Will have to find out.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 10:08 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:That interview with AB is good, well worth a hearing.

But what's going on here ??

Alex Andreou ‏@sturdyAlex · 1 min1 minute ago
New twist. Coalition partner in Finland, withdraws support. Finnish gov't on brink of collapse. Minister no longer authorised to negotiate.

"Finnish gov't on brink of collapse" - since when and why - anyone know more?
Good god ... I go away for a spot of mindless TV and a government goes under ... no idea what this is about. Will have to find out.

Not found much about Finland but it seems the Greek bailout is going down hill, German finance minister has said he wants them out of EZ, but Italy seems to have stepped in to say we have to stop humiliating Greece and find a solution.
*heads back to twitter to try to find more.....

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 10:09 pm

Twitter feed for #Greece
https://twitter.com/hashtag/greece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 10:18 pm

Germany has gone too far with this
Andrew Neil ‏@afneil · 5m5 minutes ago
Wow! Germany wants Greece to park €50bn state assets in Luxembourg to make sure they're privatised!

Who the fu$k do they think they are??

Hobiejoe · Post by **Hobiejoe** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 10:56 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
refitman wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Trump Trumps Himself.jpg
Please someone tell me the USA media is full on denouncing the possibility that this man could be selected as a presidential candidate ... please.

The USA wouldn't be that daft, would they?
There is an issue with some left(ish)-wing activists in the US making up quotes and chucking them out on twitter. For all his insanity, I would say that this is not a Trump quote.
I do hope you are right.

Sadly not, apparently. According to some of my American FB chums, he did say it, and provided a link. Sadly the link was to Fox News, and I just couldn't bring myself to click it. Google might be your friend if you are made of sterner stuff than me.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 10:58 pm

Stuart Millar ‏@stuartmillar159 56m56 minutes ago
Italian PM Renzi to tell Germans "enough is enough", time to end #Greece humiliation, reports @AlbertoNardelli http://www.theguardian.com/business/liv ... 11b7559b2c" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 11:05 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:That interview with AB is good, well worth a hearing.

But what's going on here ??

Alex Andreou ‏@sturdyAlex · 1 min1 minute ago
New twist. Coalition partner in Finland, withdraws support. Finnish gov't on brink of collapse. Minister no longer authorised to negotiate.

"Finnish gov't on brink of collapse" - since when and why - anyone know more?

I gather it's in relation to this:

Eurogroup talks in Brussels have run into difficulty after signals that eurosceptic populists in Finland’s ruling coalition will bring down the two-month-old government if Helsinki backs a third aid package for Greece.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics ... -1.2282058

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 11:26 pm

The Panorama prog on the NHS is to be shown on Monday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05y3fcb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 11:30 pm

Disabled Royston and mum Julie ordered to pay bedroom tax on spare room after son died because moving them would cost too much
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... ed-9636517" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One of the worst bedroom tax stories I've read ... and that's saying something.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 11:39 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Germany has gone too far with this
Andrew Neil ‏@afneil · 5m5 minutes ago
Wow! Germany wants Greece to park €50bn state assets in Luxembourg to make sure they're privatised!

Who the fu$k do they think they are??

(my bold)
Heavy-handed & frightful in its implications.
Suffering, real, human suffering happening in Greece for no justifiable purpose.
No one, no EU taxpayer, is going without something because of Greek debt.
This is a farce.
Varoufakis writes Schäuble wants Greece forced out of the EU - I think he's right.

Based on months of negotiation, my conviction is that the German finance minister wants Greece to be pushed out of the single currency to put the fear of God into the French and have them accept his model of a disciplinarian eurozone.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ief-grexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I read a post sarcastically suggesting Greece should offer Schäuble the position of Greek finance minister - there's some merit in that suggestion - fine, hotshot, you do it. You want to be Boss? You do it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 11 Jul, 2015 11:46 pm

Ian Traynor Verified account
‏@traynorbrussels
#eurogroup now very badly split. getting nasty. could be rowdy summit sunday. renzi to round on merkel, enough humiliation. and hollande?

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Half hour ago, or less.

Finland’s Alex Stubb told reporters that tonight’s meeting made ‘good progress’
Eric Burroughs ✔@ericbeebo
RTRS - EUROGROUP "MAKING GOOD PROGRESS" ON GREECE -FINLAND'S STUBB
11:11 PM - 11 Jul 2015

This is the same Alex Stubb who apparently can’t back a third bailout?

http://www.theguardian.com/business/liv ... c6a121fb16" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 12:11 am

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... s-business" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Better to inherit a home than start a business in Osborne.uk

Our government is locked into a mindset in which economic problems are rooted in regulation, taxation and the public sector, so its reform efforts are focused there rather than addressing the palpable dysfunctions of the private sector. To the extent that high house prices cause poor productivity growth, relaxing over-zealous planning restrictions is part of the solution. But deregulation needs to be married to moves to raise property tax, along with a rational council and inheritance tax system, together with a drive to encourage local government and housing associations to build. Instead, the government is disabling housing associations from housebuilding, compelling them to sell their key stock and lowering rents.

It is Orwellian. There is a productivity review that will not raise productivity and a budget that will do little to deliver what the chancellor says he wants. This should offer rich pickings for any opposition – but to exploit the possibilities it first has to understand them and then challenge Osborne’s narrative. It is a sign of our shrunken times that instead the chancellor bestrides our economics and politics like a colossus.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 1:08 am

goodnight, everyone
love
cJA

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 4:51 am

@HindleA: A lot to agree with in Hutton's article. Orwellian indeed, and it should be 'rich pickings for any opposition.' There's an ImAlrightJack-YouShouldBeLikeMe character BTL worth avoiding, mind...

@AAW: Further news on the Finnish Government business from the 'Closing Summary' on the Greek Debt Crisis liveblog at the other place:

Timo Soini, the nationalist True Finns leader, meanwhile, threatened to bring down the government in Helsinki if Alex Stubb, the finance minister, agreed to a new bailout for Greece. Stubb apparently came to the crunch meeting on a new bailout without a mandate to agree one.....

http://www.theguardian.com/business/liv ... 11b7559b45 (they posted this at approximately ten-to-one this morning.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 9:28 am

http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com ... _mumbling/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The most recent two posts in Chris Dillow's blog about why raising the minimum wage is such a bad idea (and no substitute for tax credits) is well worth reading.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 9:35 am

Morning all.

James Lyons ‏@STJamesl 52m52 minutes ago
Cameron to risk cronies row by creating 50 new peers.
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/new ... 2015_07_12" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

That's so he can get EVEL through the Lords no doubt ... and, if it has to go there, the fox hunting ban repeal. It's all just tricks and cons. Conservatives are the government of cons.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 9:42 am

Craig Woodhouse ‏@craigawoodhouse 9m9 minutes ago
EXCL: Labour MPs plot to oust Corbyn within weeks if he wins leadership http://www.sunnation.co.uk/watch-your-b ... byns-exit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … via @SunNation

Haven't read it - it could well be complete made up nonsense. But what a depressing thought if true ... that MPs would decide to overturn the votes of the membership / supporter base - and in advance of anything happening.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 9:47 am

Andy Slaughter MP retweeted
Alan Travis ‏@alantravis40 1h1 hour ago
S.Times says Gove to scrap Grayling's jail curbs on books but ban already dropped in January &inmates can have <12 books if governor says so

Andy Slaughter MP ‏@hammersmithandy 1h1 hour ago
Tories seem finally about to ditch cruel prisoner book ban....after spending £72k to try & keep it. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/to ... pt-4945066" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Andy Slaughter MP ‏@hammersmithandy 1h1 hour ago
Welcome news if Gove is truly scrapping book ban...after lengthy campaign against & Govt defeat in the High Court. http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/new ... 580294.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Andy Slaughter MP ‏@hammersmithandy 1h1 hour ago
Interesting. Gove was very keen on Grayling's #prisonerbookban when I asked him about it last year. http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/? ... 1559#g19.0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 9:54 am

Good morfternoon.

It's very gloomy, and it's raining here.

A shifty, socially engineered budget – and too clever by half

The chancellor is being widely praised for a budget that is far from compassionate, nor truly, traditionally, Conservative
William Keegan (Guardian)

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... er-by-half

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 10:01 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

It's very gloomy, and it's raining here.

A shifty, socially engineered budget – and too clever by half

The chancellor is being widely praised for a budget that is far from compassionate, nor truly, traditionally, Conservative
William Keegan (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... er-by-half

You're a bit late to the rain party PF - so be thankful for that. But yes, gloomy it is. Mr Riots and I have been chatting about the latest Greece situation over breakfast. Not good, not good at all. I saw a list of about 9 countries that supposedly don't want a third bailout ... and they've cancelled the EU summit. Mr Riots says all this makes him think that you can only have one level of true democracy because the 'top' levels will always trump the others ... the views of the Greek parliament and its people don't seem to count. But Tsipras may have done exactly the right thing in capitulating to virtually all the demands of the creditors because the failure cannot now be said to be because of his intransigence ... it comes down to Europe itself.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 10:19 am

Still sat here after Andrew Marr as Owen Jones is on the sofa. I cannot believe the rhetoric of those on our right. Great, we and our parents worked hard seizing opportunities where we found them. Yeah maybe it was a struggle but having the opportunity to begin with makes a world of difference. As kids we could earn from paper rounds, weekend shelf-stacking jobs, washing cars etc. and as students pick up temporary summer and Christmas jobs All main stream employment in a shrinking workplace nowadays. Try that, why don't they?

Sod that, according to Osborne under 25 year olds should know their place; with Mater and Pater.

Edit: ... or financed by them.
Edit: added Christmas jobs.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 10:34 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Craig Woodhouse ‏@craigawoodhouse 9m9 minutes ago
EXCL: Labour MPs plot to oust Corbyn within weeks if he wins leadership http://www.sunnation.co.uk/watch-your-b ... byns-exit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … via @SunNation
Haven't read it - it could well be complete made up nonsense. But what a depressing thought if true ... that MPs would decide to overturn the votes of the membership / supporter base - and in advance of anything happening.

Lets get real here, though - Corbyn's lack of support in the PLP *would* be a problem if he won (as we all know, Ed had problems there - imagine that multiplied tenfold) People should vote for him if that is what they really want - but without illusions, not as some ephemeral emotional spasm.

(his putting together a shadow cabinet would be fun, as well)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 10:48 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Craig Woodhouse ‏@craigawoodhouse 9m9 minutes ago
EXCL: Labour MPs plot to oust Corbyn within weeks if he wins leadership http://www.sunnation.co.uk/watch-your-b ... byns-exit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … via @SunNation
Haven't read it - it could well be complete made up nonsense. But what a depressing thought if true ... that MPs would decide to overturn the votes of the membership / supporter base - and in advance of anything happening.
Lets get real here, though - Corbyn's lack of support in the PLP *would* be a problem if he won (as we all know, Ed had problems there - imagine that multiplied tenfold) People should vote for him if that is what they really want - but without illusions, not as some ephemeral emotional spasm.

(his putting together a shadow cabinet would be fun, as well)

I am 'real' about it AK. My main point at our branch meeting was that even if Corbyn won the popular vote, and even if he was 'electable', I doubted very much that he could find a 'top team' to get behind him and really work hard for and show commitment to the man and his policies. I'm just saying I find it a very depressing situation ... and it is.

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 10:56 am

Just watched the paper review on Murnaghan programme on Fox, sorry, Sky.

Diane Abbot (I hope she spends as much time on her day job as in the TV studios, cheap shot I know but.......) talking over everyone and generally being an irritant. These sort of self indulgent performances do Labour very little good.

Andrea Jenkyns (the woman who defeated Ed Balls) very lightweight. Tried at one stage to blame Syriza for the totality of the Greek problem.

Murnaghan himself acting as a right wing cheerleader (may be because the tory woman was clearly struggling) asking Abbot at one stage if she thought the voters were idiots for not electing Labour.

It really does come to something when Paul Nuttall came over as the most reasonable member of the panel (including the host) although he did come out with some hackneyed old clichés. Maxed out the credit card anyone!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 10:58 am

'We earn £47,000. Can we get into buy-to-let and retire at 50?'
Money makeover: Stuart and Louise Owen want to upsize their current home and build a property portfolio
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... at-50.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So much of what is horribly wrong and twisted about our society in one story.

Credit to BTL - the majority are pointing out just how selfish and flawed this plan is.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 11:08 am

There is no opposition,dangerous times indeed.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 11:08 am

Jonathan Porter ‏@JHC_Porter 21m21 minutes ago
Gove on prisoners: 'If we look at them only as problems to be contained we miss the opportunity to transform their lives...' Amen to that.

Yes, that would sound a welcome and benign statement coming from most people ... but I shudder to imagine what Gove's 'transformation' of lives might entail.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 11:12 am

Wholesale destruction is now on the cards.Fundamentals shattered.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 11:45 am

UK ‘failing its young’ as gulf grows between generations
Under-30s fall back sharply in ‘fairness index’, fuelling backlash against George Osborne’s budget

Following the budget, Andy Burnham, seen by many as the favourite to be the next Labour leader, wrote to every party member insisting that the living wage should apply to young people. Burnham said that the budget “divided young from old” and “represents everything that’s wrong with Westminster politics”. (Observer - my emphasis)

I don't really understand the bit I've bolded. It seems like a meaningless soundbite. What precisely does he mean? .

I admit that I haven't read or heard (or perhaps am not remembering) the original.

Edited to add link -

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... rne-budget

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 11:50 am

HindleA wrote:Wholesale destruction is now on the cards.Fundamentals shattered.

It occurred to me this morning that Westminster politics has become like The Only Way is Essex. Partly scripted reality in which the more shambolic a character is, the more the public adores them.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 12:01 pm

Labour backing Tory social security changes according to Harman
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02wwc7b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A gift for Corbyn.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 12:02 pm

@PaulfromYorkshire

Wotcher!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 12:04 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Labour backing Tory social security changes according to Harman
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02wwc7b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A gift for Corbyn.

Yep - you wonder if she (and Chris Leslie) actually secretly wants him to win. If so, they're going the right way about it

(to get some perspective, he is still 4th favourite at the bookies though)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 12:10 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:Labour backing Tory social security changes according to Harman
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02wwc7b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A gift for Corbyn.

No blanket opposition may well be fair enough in certain circumstances. But on this? Especially when the changes don't even make economic sense, as should be pointed out by Labour if they feel that taking the moral highground alone won't cut much ice.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 12:14 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Even the GOP isn't that mental........probably.

You sure about that?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 12:26 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Labour backing Tory social security changes according to Harman
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02wwc7b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A gift for Corbyn.
Yep - you wonder if she (and Chris Leslie) actually secretly wants him to win. If so, they're going the right way about it

(to get some perspective, he is still 4th favourite at the bookies though)

8/1 is the longest you can get on Corbyn. Madness.

The Tories were 10/1 for a majority on May 6th.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 12:46 pm

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... dy-burnham" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 12:52 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... dy-burnham

From the article to which you link (thanks) -

They want us to listen to their concerns and we've got to recognise why it is that the Tories are in government and not us, not because people love the Tories particularly but because they didn't trust us on the economy and benefits. We have to listen to that and respond."

Er - the SNP ring any bells?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 12:56 pm

By logical extension,don't oppose anything?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 1:08 pm

Chris Williamson ‏@ChriswMP 1m1 minute ago
Scotland looks at strengthening foxhunting ban north of the border as PM attempts to weaken ban in England & Wales http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/t ... -1-3828315" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 1:12 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Even the GOP isn't that mental........probably.
You sure about that?

He isn't even going to run. Believe it. It's all hot air and puffed-upness and a waste of everybody's time.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 1:12 pm

Universal credit roll-out in chaos say Reading council leader

Cllr Jo Lovelock told Reading Borough Council of 'incompetence on a large scale' in the changeover to universal credits

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local- ... ay-9633051

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 1:13 pm

Sarah Wollaston MP ‏@sarahwollaston 49m49 minutes ago
It would be toxic for Conservatives to cave into the hunting lobby & relax the ban; rural voters also want hunting consigned to history

They probably calculate that they are already toxic with many of those who value animal welfare ... and they can get away with it.

What I would like to see is the SNP - or at least some of them - realise that they would actually win a lot of friends across England and Wales - and Scotland - by standing up for what is right. I know that's probably a vain hope.

The numbers are absolutely knife edge apparently according to sources ...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 1:27 pm

Here's a question - from another 'real' perspective. I've been wondering what might happen if a Labour leader is elected that doesn't represent the most active in the local parties - who I think Harman was suggesting today are often the most left wing. If there is a real disconnect between the expressed views of the new leader and shadow cabinet and the generally small number who do a lot of the work - the foot slogging and talking and keeping the branches going ... will that small number still be prepared to go out and 'sell' something they don't believe in? If they're not (and there have already been some people here vocalising their reluctance to continue campaigning if there isn't something worthwhile on offer in their opinion) will others come forward to take their place? We could lose people with the most experience and knowledge of campaigning and certain communities right at the point we most need them.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 1:34 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Here's a question - from another 'real' perspective. I've been wondering what might happen if a Labour leader is elected that doesn't represent the most active in the local parties - who I think Harman was suggesting today are often the most left wing. If there is a real disconnect between the expressed views of the new leader and shadow cabinet and the generally small number who do a lot of the work - the foot slogging and talking and keeping the branches going ... will that small number still be prepared to go out and 'sell' something they don't believe in? If they're not (and there have already been some people here vocalising their reluctance to continue campaigning if there isn't something worthwhile on offer in their opinion) will others come forward to take their place? We could lose people with the most experience and knowledge of campaigning and certain communities right at the point we most need them.

I fully take your point. But, to play devil's advocate, the Conservatives pulled off the unthinkable even given their dwindling membership and dwindling numbers of activists. Although I think the Labour Party (and a lot of its supporters) is a different bunch of bananas - and Harriet Harman would do well to bear that in mind.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 2:12 pm

Though a significant part of that was the Tories had enough wealth to pay people to deliver their stuff - does Labour?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 2:15 pm

How can this possibly be "breaking news"?

'Can Federer beat Djokovic to claim his 8th Wimbledon title?'

Because the Guardian says it is, I suppose . . .

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 2:20 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Though a significant part of that was the Tories had enough wealth to pay people to deliver their stuff - does Labour?

Equally to the point - since she seems intent on going down the Conservative road - has Harriet Harman thought about this?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 2:22 pm

PorFavor wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Here's a question - from another 'real' perspective. I've been wondering what might happen if a Labour leader is elected that doesn't represent the most active in the local parties - who I think Harman was suggesting today are often the most left wing. If there is a real disconnect between the expressed views of the new leader and shadow cabinet and the generally small number who do a lot of the work - the foot slogging and talking and keeping the branches going ... will that small number still be prepared to go out and 'sell' something they don't believe in? If they're not (and there have already been some people here vocalising their reluctance to continue campaigning if there isn't something worthwhile on offer in their opinion) will others come forward to take their place? We could lose people with the most experience and knowledge of campaigning and certain communities right at the point we most need them.
I fully take your point. But, to play devil's advocate, the Conservatives pulled off the unthinkable even given their dwindling membership and dwindling numbers of activists. Although I think the Labour Party (and a lot of its supporters) is a different bunch of bananas - and Harriet Harman would do well to bear that in mind.

The Tories had money PF - and they threw that money into the campaigns including paying people where they needed to. Plus they had the resources of Vote UK - aka Countryside Alliance - whose votes and support they bought via promises such as repeal of the Hunting Ban. Labour just doesn't have that resource.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 12 Jul, 2015 2:27 pm

PorFavor wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Though a significant part of that was the Tories had enough wealth to pay people to deliver their stuff - does Labour?
Equally to the point - since she seems intent on going down the Conservative road - has Harriet Harman thought about this?

It sounds as though she has already got a settled view of what lost the election for Labour - given her reported put down of Burnham. I don't agree with her that it was opposing austerity ..you could hardly say that was a central feature of the Labour campaign.