Friday 17th July 2015

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 11:51 am

mikems wrote:According to the Star, Corbyn has taken the lead in constituency party nominations, 49 to Burnham's 48, with Cooper on 33 and Kendall on 5.

Gaining a lot of support from students, apparently, who are registering 'in droves' to vote for him.

Full figures here

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... ip-contest" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Corbyn 55
Burnham 52
Cooper 42
Kendall 10

CLP recommendations were not much of a guide in 2010, but then it tends in my experience to be the young who don't turn up, and they an be more leftwing than the oldsters. That and 50k+ Unite sign ups explains why Corbyn is 4/1.

4/1 that Labour is finished as an electoral force in my view.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 11:52 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:I see the Lib Dems have done well in yesterday's local elections ... they overturned a Labour held seat in Wrexham (or close to) by some considerable margin. I will wait to hear further about the results from Anatoly - would welcome his views on what happened there.

I wonder what the Assembly elections next year will bring ... I really do.

Yes, the yellows generally had a good night (Farron effect?) they also came quite close in a Cumbria CC seat that is normally safe Tory.

It has been claimed that the Wrexham result might be at least partly down to NIMBYism - plans to build new houses there are apparently not popular.

More later, as ever.......

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 11:54 am

Of course Anatoly. They are but mere indications, not evidence.

Any guesses on the eventual size of the electorate? Party members + affiliates + registered supporters?

Let's have a sweepstake - 430,000, I guess.

mikems · Post by **mikems** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 11:55 am

A lot of Liberals might have dropped support for as long as the Clegg collaborators were leading the party.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 11:58 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
utopiandreams wrote: I lean toward better pay with fewer expense allowances, PorFavor, which I believe are the real scandal, particularly the second home allowance. MPs should be provided Olympic village style accommodation for parliamentary business (just another wasted resource or missed opportunity of the last government). I'm sure our usually right-wing press would approve, they'd have much more material for their salacious village gossip column.
I agree with that. I also think we need far fewer of them. A Parliament of around 250 would be more than enough. Pay them £150k+ each.

Mind you, there really is not that much work to do being an MP. Look at how much legislation is passed in a year: next to nothing. They do a lot of 'constituency work' nowadays, but they are pretty ineffectual at that. The average Labour MP has zero influence over central government and so can do precisely bugger all to help, other than give advice (which in most cases an expert such as a lawyer would be better qualified to give).

The only reason for having so many is to insure that a government has enough warm bodies to fill all the roles it needs. Both the Tories and Labour are shockingly poor when you cream off the top 100 most able in their ranks.
Unless we move to a fully federal system (which there is an argument for) then 250 MPs is far too low.

Not least because it means the "payroll vote" would be even more dominant than now - even if the size of *that* is reduced, as it should be.

As with our discussion on unions last night, the better route is to improve the quality of those who get elected......

We have more MPs than any other European country. On ratio of their salary to the average, ours are poorly paid.

I agree that at the same time as cutting the MPs we need to cut the number on the government payroll.

But.

Someone like Cooper is my contemporary. It wasn't the case that the best of their generation went into politics (the same is true on the Tory side). The job needs more prestige. That means more money and fewer of them. Both parties have always been packed full of time wasters

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 12:03 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
mikems wrote:According to the Star, Corbyn has taken the lead in constituency party nominations, 49 to Burnham's 48, with Cooper on 33 and Kendall on 5.

Gaining a lot of support from students, apparently, who are registering 'in droves' to vote for him.
Full figures here

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... ip-contest" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Corbyn 55
Burnham 52
Cooper 42
Kendall 10

CLP recommendations were not much of a guide in 2010, but then it tends in my experience to be the young who don't turn up, and they an be more leftwing than the oldsters. That and 50k+ Unite sign ups explains why Corbyn is 4/1.

4/1 that Labour is finished as an electoral force in my view.

In *every* previous leadership election (2010 included) members who don't go to meetings have proved more centrist than those who do.

There are people, like you, saying "its different this time" - well, we shall see but I am unconvinced. Not least because anecdotal evidence suggests quite a few of these new younger members *have* been turning up to these things and voting for JC (his campaign is very good at publicising them, fair play)

Also bear in mind my previous comment about these being conducted under FPTP - unlike the actual election.

If I was a betting man 4-1 wouldn't tempt me at the moment (8-1, maybe) Bookies odds on these sorts of things tend to be less reliable than usual as well (there was a load of money going on Kendall earlier on in the contest for no real discernible reason other than wishful thinking)

Corbyn winning remains a highly unlikely prospect. But the "mainstream" candidates need to up their game.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 12:07 pm

Just announced on BBC TV news -

Cap on residential care costs will be delayed for four years - U-turn on manifesto pledge.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 12:18 pm

seeingclearly wrote:
utopiandreams wrote:@mikems

Another question is how to disincentivise the status seekers and charlatans from standing. I may be guilty of blaming the electorate for choosing them but the party selects those that stand.
Pay them less. Make their job description so watertight that they can have no other earnings. Cut off all the grace and favour stuff.

I'm in a haircuts for the well to do mood. Have just read a story about Doritos on a day when 1. We find out that we are de facto committed to military action in Syria, and 2. MPs will be getting that 10% more while people with mobility issues are losing their independence.

I should say good morning graciously, but my mood is too far in the wrong direction, and I'm very grumpy with the world today, so you'll have to assume that some compassionate balance will be restored at some point and I'll hope the day gets better for everyone. Including our lovely Ohso's. (If the apostrophe is superfluous please blame it on my bad (private) education. I really can't decide whether it is or isn't.) Anyway, I hope they are both coping with today and that things go well.

I like the cut of your jib, seeingclearly. Sorry if that makes me sound aloof, yeah I did some sailing but I'm no toff, I just spent a couple of my teenage years on the North Wales coast. What's a lad to do?

A written code of conduct that all MPs had to sign with strict penalties and the power of recall would help. Members interests are hard to govern unless you want career politicians (I'm not saying there isn't a place for some) but interests must exclude members from related legislature. I'd like to remove the whip from the executive too (in my PR world) to more closely represent constituents or the electorate; careerists would no doubt still play ball.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 12:18 pm

PorFavor wrote:Just announced on BBC TV news -

Cap on residential care costs will be delayed for four years - U-turn on manifesto pledge.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-33552279" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 12:28 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
There are people, like you, saying "its different this time" - .

It is already quite different this time. When was the last time a candidate such as Corbyn did so well with the CLPs?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 12:34 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
In *every* previous leadership election (2010 included) members who don't go to meetings have proved more centrist than those who do.
.

Hmmmm. As with your claim last night about union membership, that is the kind of thing I thought might be true, but a quick google casts into serious doubt.

http://labourlist.org/2010/06/clp-nominations/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In 2010, David Miliband had a clear lead amongst CLPs. Although he of course won with the membership, he only did so by a slim margin.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 12:37 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
There are people, like you, saying "its different this time" - .
It is already quite different this time. When was the last time a candidate such as Corbyn did so well with the CLPs?

He has about a third of them?

Benn did about that well IIRC in 1988 - he was, of course, crushed.

Bear in mind JC is the only "left" candidate in this election (despite the Kendall camp's efforts to tell us Burnham is a mad leftie) Last time round there was Ed M to soak up much of the "not Blairite" support - and of course Abbott was not taken that seriously even by the hard left.

But I repeat, again - these things don't actually mean *that* much, *and* the Corbyn campaign is specifically targeting them.

(you can also look back to 1994 - Blair had most CLP noms, but Beckett/Prescott combined had more; in the event TB carried all but half a dozen CLPs in the whole country)

EDIT: just seen your last post and admit I am somewhat puzzled - DM only had a dozen more nominations than his brother, and when you add in the other candidates he clearly had a minority; in the actual vote he carried most CLPs (though many of them narrowly, as you say) So even this example has members voting a bit more centrist than activists. There was also the CLP where Abbott was nominated and then scored about 5% IIRC

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 12:39 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: Not least because it means the "payroll vote" would be even more dominant than now - even if the size of *that* is reduced, as it should be.

I'm pretty sure there was talk among some Tories - some of whom might actually now be ministers - about reducing the size of government and combining or abolishing some departments.

That talk seems to have disappeared once in government...funny that...maybe they realised that putting more MPs onto the backbenches with a small majority wasn't such a great idea.

There's always the ministerial pay packet too, Roger. Btw does anyone know how ministers are behaving regarding SPAD apparatchiks and the Civil Service? This bunch attack on so many fronts that you really have to pay attention.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 12:44 pm

utopiandreams wrote:Btw does anyone know how ministers are behaving regarding SPAD apparatchiks and the Civil Service? This bunch attack on so many fronts that you really have to pay attention.

I'll keep an eye out.

'This bunch attack on so many fronts that you really have to pay attention.'
Truer words were never written.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 12:45 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:

He has about a third of them?

Benn did about that well IIRC in 1988 - he was, of course, crushed.

There is large difference between getting a third when a rival gets 2/3rds, and getting a plurality.

Corbyn is 7/4 to win most first preferences.

Cooper is 4/1

http://sportsbeta.ladbrokes.com/Next-La ... 056b6409b7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think he will win, but Watson will, and Corbyn/Watson is 5/1.

What a dream ticket.

For the Tories.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 1:11 pm

For those interested.
Concerning sanctions and DWP press release ,repeated utterations by Ministers that 94 %of JSA and 99%ESA not being sanctioned.

Link to the methodology used,very lax of them not to mention "In any given month".As it states there are various ways to calculate sanction rates,one being providing a distorted picture for a press release.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... ethodology" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 1:28 pm

HindleA wrote:For those interested.
Concerning sanctions and DWP press release ,repeated utterations by Ministers that 94 %of JSA and 99%ESA not being sanctioned.

Link to the methodology used,very lax of them not to mention "In any given month".As it states there are various ways to calculate sanction rates,one being providing a distorted picture for a press release.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... ethodology" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Correct.
I'm disgusted. Also, look at those JSA & ESA claims plummet in number as the year went on. Wonder what happened there.

Justin Tomlinson Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Department for Work and Pensions) (Disabled People)
The information requested on the numbers of households who have moved off the benefit cap and into full-time and part-time work is not recorded on the Department’s analytical dataset and is therefore not available for analysis.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id ... 0#g5625.r0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

edited to add
page three of the DWP document is nonsense - a list of nonsense statements meaning nothing of value, it doesn't clarify or support the DWP's falsehoods regarding sanctions.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 1:33 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:

There is large difference between getting a third when a rival gets 2/3rds, and getting a plurality.

Corbyn is 7/4 to win most first preferences.

Cooper is 4/1

http://sportsbeta.ladbrokes.com/Next-La ... 056b6409b7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think he will win, but Watson will, and Corbyn/Watson is 5/1.

What a dream ticket.

For the Tories.

I don't get the popularity of Tom Watson. What am I missing?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 1:35 pm

To provide such information would reveal a web of deceit,some were already working to name but one.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 1:59 pm

Tom Copley ‏@tomcopley 7m7 minutes ago
Sajid Javid explains strikes. Brilliant from @TUCnews

There was a viney thingummy attached to that tweet - which is very funny and spot on. If you click through you should get it (don't know how to embed them vine things here - or if it's possible).

TUC Media Team ‏@TUCnews Jul 15
Previous business sec Vince Cable on the new #TradeUnionBill: "depressingly ideological and completely unnecessary"

Vince would probably have been sent out to say how sensible this bill was under the old regime. How times have changed ... for him.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 2:01 pm

Willow904 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:

There is large difference between getting a third when a rival gets 2/3rds, and getting a plurality.

Corbyn is 7/4 to win most first preferences.

Cooper is 4/1

http://sportsbeta.ladbrokes.com/Next-La ... 056b6409b7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't think he will win, but Watson will, and Corbyn/Watson is 5/1.

What a dream ticket.

For the Tories.
I don't get the popularity of Tom Watson. What am I missing?

Ditto.

Post by **refitman** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 2:03 pm

Willow904 wrote: I don't get the popularity of Tom Watson. What am I missing?

He's very front and centre in the media, so is a known face. Also has done a lot re: phone hacking and child abuse.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 2:09 pm

Willow904 wrote: I don't get the popularity of Tom Watson. What am I missing?

I am not the right person to ask.

Perhaps he just looks like a 'Labour man'?

A machine politician with no credibility in my view.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 2:12 pm

Thinking of attacks on so many fronts, statutory instruments and Osborne's budget statement regarding disposal of public assets raises my hackles. I can't remember who, but one of you used to keep an eye on NHS Property Services or whatever it was called; I wonder how that is or shall be going.

There used to be some ombudsman who overviewed changes of use of any property passed to academies. This goes back to 2006 or 7 I think and ensured local authorities were recompensed accordingly. Quite why deeds had to be passed over I never understood even if you accept the academy argument. Perhaps RoT would know but I wouldn't rule out there being some statutory instrument that could diminish or completely remove said ombudsman's role (I can't remember his title).

Let the party backers bonanza begin. Some may call it corruption. Can we please address party funding Cameron if you wish to address union funding? No need to answer, Dave, even your so-called lobbying bill was an attack of charities.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 2:13 pm

http://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2015/ ... ainlyMacro+(mainly+macro" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

A government budget surplus is bad economy policy. Do Labour actually understand this? Certainly it was made clear in the Autumn statement that Osborne's plans required households to take on record levels of debt. This is so easy to present to a hard of thinking public as a bad thing, I wonder that Labour don't mention it at every opportunity. I'd love to hear Osborne explain why debt is so bad for government but not for us.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 2:34 pm

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 2h2 hours ago
Social care cap of £72,000 delayed by four years. Coalition plan was to pay for it by freezing inheritance tax threshold at £325k.

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 2h2 hours ago
Osborne's raising of the threshold to £500k (£1m for a couple) means revenue isn't available.

I wonder if people who voted for the Tories because of promises over inheritance tax will understand that they've just been scuppered by the very same measure? They will have to sell mum and dad's house to pay the care bill after all and it's going to cost them big time.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 2:46 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 2h2 hours ago
Social care cap of £72,000 delayed by four years. Coalition plan was to pay for it by freezing inheritance tax threshold at £325k.

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 2h2 hours ago
Osborne's raising of the threshold to £500k (£1m for a couple) means revenue isn't available.
I wonder if people who voted for the Tories because of promises over inheritance tax will understand that they've just been scuppered by the very same measure? They will have to sell mum and dad's house to pay the care bill after all and it's going to cost them big time.

I suspect it's more a case of those who weren't concerned about the raising of the inheritance tax threshold for those wealthier than themselves, not realising they would be the one's to pay for it, rather than some unemployed "scrounger". As long as there is a focus on benefits rather than beneficiaries, people will remain oblivious to the obvious - that every perk for someone else, whether rich or poor, is one less perk for you and those in the middle need to watch out for the well-off "scroungers" every bit as much as the (mostly fictitious) Del Boys.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 3:00 pm

Willow904 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 2h2 hours ago
Social care cap of £72,000 delayed by four years. Coalition plan was to pay for it by freezing inheritance tax threshold at £325k.

George Eaton ‏@georgeeaton 2h2 hours ago
Osborne's raising of the threshold to £500k (£1m for a couple) means revenue isn't available.
I wonder if people who voted for the Tories because of promises over inheritance tax will understand that they've just been scuppered by the very same measure? They will have to sell mum and dad's house to pay the care bill after all and it's going to cost them big time.
I suspect it's more a case of those who weren't concerned about the raising of the inheritance tax threshold for those wealthier than themselves, not realising they would be the one's to pay for it, rather than some unemployed "scrounger". As long as there is a focus on benefits rather than beneficiaries, people will remain oblivious to the obvious - that every perk for someone else, whether rich or poor, is one less perk for you and those in the middle need to watch out for the well-off "scroungers" every bit as much as the (mostly fictitious) Del Boys.

Talking of spivs or Del Boys, Willow, I read an account of Shapps' business methods by a Search Engine Optimiser and blogger yeaterday. I thought I'd bookmarked him for his SEO tips so shall try to find it. In the meantime:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/sho ... hael-green

There was an Indie link too but takes far too long to load.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 4:15 pm

Here's an off topic

We've had the badger vaccination team on and around our land for the past two weeks. This is the final year of the Welsh Government's 4 year badger vaccination project in North Pembrokeshire. Yesterday and today were the two days of actually trapping and vaccinating after a period of pre baiting and monitoring the cage traps.

I arrived back from shopping to a note from our duo saying they had vaccinated 20 badgers in total, 8 from down our track. Made me feel good about living here. They vaccinated 17 from the fields above our house in their previous session.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 4:23 pm

I've appreciated Paul Mason's take on things for some time now but have only just noticed this article, The end of capitalism has begun: http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/j ... lism-begun. It may be a book promotion but looks like one I shall read.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 4:33 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Here's an off topic

We've had the badger vaccination team on and around our land for the past two weeks. This is the final year of the Welsh Government's 4 year badger vaccination project in North Pembrokeshire. Yesterday and today were the two days of actually trapping and vaccinating after a period of pre baiting and monitoring the cage traps.

I arrived back from shopping to a note from our duo saying they had vaccinated 20 badgers in total, 8 from down our track. Made me feel good about living here. They vaccinated 17 from the fields above our house in their previous session.

I know I've mentioned it over at the G before but my parents had a badger sett in the corner of their land when they lived in the New Forest. I hate these so-called country-folk that say townies don't understand. Yeah I've lived in the city but more of my life has been in and around farming and country-folk. Most I've known have far more respect for wildlife but must confess mixed feelings toward gamekeepers even if fascinated by some of their interests, birds of prey for example.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 4:43 pm

That post re Paul Mason has reminded me -

Someone jog me, from time to time, re Temulkar's novel ("The Last Roundhead"), please.

I hope all's well with the ohsocynicals.

Edited to move comma - I blame screen lurch.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 4:43 pm

utopiandreams wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Here's an off topic

We've had the badger vaccination team on and around our land for the past two weeks. This is the final year of the Welsh Government's 4 year badger vaccination project in North Pembrokeshire. Yesterday and today were the two days of actually trapping and vaccinating after a period of pre baiting and monitoring the cage traps.

I arrived back from shopping to a note from our duo saying they had vaccinated 20 badgers in total, 8 from down our track. Made me feel good about living here. They vaccinated 17 from the fields above our house in their previous session.
I know I've mentioned it over at the G before but my parents had a badger sett in the corner of their land when they lived in the New Forest. I hate these so-called country-folk that say townies don't understand. Yeah I've lived in the city but more of my life has been in and around farming and country-folk. Most I've known have far more respect for wildlife but must confess mixed feelings toward gamekeepers even if fascinated by some of their interests, birds of prey for example.

There are an awful lot of original country folk living in cities ... and a lot of people who once lived in cities who now live in the country. It's a nonsense divide really. I spent the best part of my young and middle years in the city but I never stopped being a country girl.

You'd have appreciated our rather thwarted attempts to help an injured - or possibly just stunned - buzzard we encountered on our track last week. We ended up not having to capture it and take it to a rescue ... it managed to get on the wing and up into a tree where it sat and pee weed at us and the surrounding woodland. 'Pee weed' is the only written approximation I can manage of its call at the moment.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 4:47 pm

And while we're on animal welfare related things. I emailed all the SNP MPs to thank them for their decision re Cameron's sneaky attempt to repeal the fox hunting ban ... and asked them to give the Tories hell over his EVEL plan too in my sign off.

I've received a few replies back. This one today is rather interesting (or it is to me anyway).

Thank you for your email.

You will likely be aware by now that the SNP Westminster Group agreed that we would vote on the proposed fox hunting legislation amendments and vote against the measures. There is no doubt that this led the Government to change their minds and withdraw the proposals, possibly to come back later in the year.
We believe that this was the correct decision, as whilst on paper, an English only matter, we would not previously have voted for, circumstances have changed.
Firstly, we campaigned to be a progressive political force, willing to work with any other parties on progressive and social just matters.
There was a clear desire from many of our constituents to participate in the vote
The actions of the Tory Government in rejecting every Scotland Bill amendment, using English and Welsh MPs to do so, confirms there is not a respect agenda within Westminster at the moment.
And of course, for many people like yourself, animal welfare does not recognise borders, and animals do not have their own advocates.
When/if the proposals do come back to Parliament, I trust you have comfort that we have made our position clear. The outcome of the EVEL proposals will however, determine how effective our votes may be. The Scottish Government has also pledged to review the current Scottish legislation to ensure it is fit for purpose and there may be change there, ironically, to make it more like the English legislation is at present, to eliminate any perceived loopholes.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 5:05 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
utopiandreams wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Here's an off topic

We've had the badger vaccination team on and around our land for the past two weeks. This is the final year of the Welsh Government's 4 year badger vaccination project in North Pembrokeshire. Yesterday and today were the two days of actually trapping and vaccinating after a period of pre baiting and monitoring the cage traps.

I arrived back from shopping to a note from our duo saying they had vaccinated 20 badgers in total, 8 from down our track. Made me feel good about living here. They vaccinated 17 from the fields above our house in their previous session.
I know I've mentioned it over at the G before but my parents had a badger sett in the corner of their land when they lived in the New Forest. I hate these so-called country-folk that say townies don't understand. Yeah I've lived in the city but more of my life has been in and around farming and country-folk. Most I've known have far more respect for wildlife but must confess mixed feelings toward gamekeepers even if fascinated by some of their interests, birds of prey for example.
There are an awful lot of original country folk living in cities ... and a lot of people who once lived in cities who now live in the country. It's a nonsense divide really. I spent the best part of my young and middle years in the city but I never stopped being a country girl.

You'd have appreciated our rather thwarted attempts to help an injured - or possibly just stunned - buzzard we encountered on our track last week. We ended up not having to capture it and take it to a rescue ... it managed to get on the wing and up into a tree where it sat and pee weed at us and the surrounding woodland. 'Pee weed' is the only written approximation I can manage of its call at the moment.

You've reminded me of this, rebecca, Bill Bailey: I was sold owl in Chinese restaurant: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-22567647. There was something else about a swan on the Mall, I think, when he was quickly surrounded by armed security and was having difficulty speaking with his asthma.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 5:10 pm

Pretty extraordinary story.

Ryanair closes Denmark operation to head off union row
Airline in dispute with labour groups over wages and working culture to close Copenhagen facility, making industrial action technically illegal
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... on-dispute" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't think this is likely to happen here ... well certainly can't see the current Mayor of London behaving like his Danish counterpart.

After Copenhagen’s mayor banned city employees from using the airline because its low wages amounted to “social dumping”, the airline issued a crudely Photoshopped image of the mayor as Marie Antoinette, saying “Let them eat cake!” and “Let them pay high fares!”

The Social Democrat MP Peter Hummelgaard hit back with an equally vulgar image of Ryanair boss Michael O’Leary apparently in an intimate entanglement with one of his jets, under the slogan: “Ryanair: screwing over its staff since 1985.”

After Ryanair held a press conference in Copenhagen last week at which some of its pilots praised their working conditions, unions claimed they were not on the same contracts as most Ryanair staff, who are paid worse. Other Ryanair workers went to the media with claims that in some months their wages were as low as €500 (£348), or less than half the salaries of local low-cost airlines.

“This was shocking to the public that this could be happening in our backyard,” said Anders Mark Jensen, vice-president of the Flight Personnel Union, which organises pilots and cabin crew in Denmark.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 5:17 pm

I've realised there is a perfect description of the call of the buzzard - or should that be shriek of the buzzard. It lets out an 'Azarenka' or 'Sharapova'.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 5:28 pm

Labour must learn to speak human, whatever its policies
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... munication" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Makes some valid points. Labour really does need to find the knack of coining a phrase ... simple, clear, memorable messages.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 5:32 pm

David Brindle on Tories manifesto pledge of a" lifetime cap on care costs"

"According to the charity Age UK, the numbers of older and disabled people stuck in hospital because of lack of social care in the community is rising by 19% a year"

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 5:48 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Labour must learn to speak human, whatever its policies
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... munication" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Makes some valid points. Labour really does need to find the knack of coining a phrase ... simple, clear, memorable messages.

We could also do with modern or updated dramas and docudramas of the trials of life in modern Britain; peak-time telly complete with affable, heroic figures rather than wastrels to castigate. Social media abounds with such tales, particularly victims of IDS' zeal. Somehow I cannot see this coming from a BBC that is under attack. Surely there are script writers and producers up to the job.

Edit: mind you it's easy for me to say, I don't watch any soaps for example and some may think they fulfill such roles. Personally I feel they show a lot of rude people with no respect for one another and don't know how to behave. Too much alcohol maybe with a pub being at the centre of things.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 6:02 pm

Tax man saves just £500,000 from a target of £285m as IT project stalls
IT delays at HMRC took the shine off an overall improvement in tax collections, NAO says

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... talls.html

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 6:04 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Tax man saves just £500,000 from a target of £285m as IT project stalls
IT delays at HMRC took the shine off an overall improvement in tax collections, NAO says

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... talls.html

It certainly puts IDS' fantasy £100bn in perspective, Ohso. Even Jon Snow let that one pass.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 6:04 pm

Good to see you back online Ohso. Hope you are OK. Have to go out for a bit now but will be back later.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 6:05 pm

City watchdog chief quits after George Osborne vote of no confidence
Martin Wheatley resigns from FCA before end of contract after criticism over confrontational style in tackling banks and the City

George Osborne has forced out the tough-talking head of Britain’s financial watchdog after he angered the banking community with a string of record fines. Martin Wheatley quit as chief executive of the Financial Conduct Authority after he was told earlier this week by the chancellor that his five year contract would not be renewed next year. The chancellor’s vote of no confidence immediately prompted speculation that it was Wheatley’s attacks on bank misbehaviour which had generated a loss of support inside No 11.

John Mann MP, a member of the influential Treasury select committee, said the chancellor was “wrong” and the decision “undermined the independence of the regulator”. The watchdog’s remit to clamp down on misselling prompted it to levy a record £1.4bn in fines last year and keep a focus on bank efforts to clean up their acts in the wake of the £20bn payment protection insurance scandal.

Sources close to the Treasury denied that Wheatley’s departure would bring a more softly-softly approach, saying that his successor would still get support for tackling poor practice in the City.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... ge-osborne" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 6:05 pm

Do something utopian!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 6:06 pm

Am still waiting to see if Mr Ohso can come home today or not.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 6:11 pm

Chuka Umunna accuses Labour 'behaving like a petulant child'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 95856.html

And he can piss off.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 6:20 pm

Drinks on YOU: Whitehall boozers spend £70k on spiralling government wine bill

THE Government has been slammed for spending over £70,000 of taxpayers' money to replace bottles of fine wine served at functions.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/591787 ... nato-wales

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 6:22 pm

Controversial forced academisation in Norwich. The Inspiration Trust release their consultation.

This is what people think of the supposed basket case Hewett School.

How effective do you think the school’s approach is to discipline? (354
respondents)
Very effective 10%
Effective 64%
Not very effective 21%
Ineffective 5%

How effective do you think the school’s approach is to bullying? (354
respondents)
Very effective 14%
Effective 62%
Not very effective 19%
Ineffective 4%

How effective do you think the school’s approach is to homework? (354
respondents)
Very effective 8%
Effective 66%
Not very effective 22%
Ineffective 5%

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 17 Jul, 2015 6:31 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... %5Egdnnews" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Children in immigration tribunals 'may have to represent themselves'
Removal of legal aid is leaving thousands of youngsters with no access to the law and at risk of exploitation and homelessness, charity claims

The Children’s Society has applied for a judicial review to challenge the justice secretary’s refusal to reinstate immigration legal aid for unaccompanied children following its removal under LASPO.