Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

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PorFavor
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by PorFavor »

howsillyofme1 wrote:
HindleA wrote:Bold and radical alone,plays well in the gallery,it will however ensure Labour will be consigned to the opposition benches.The most progression was made via a broad church with the nominally right of the party playing a pivotal role engendering cross party support,for example Morris,whose legislation ,some 45 years later still fundamentally utilised for the betterment of many.

How bold and radical depends on what is being proposed

Believing in something and having the courage and conviction to see it through is another! If Cooper believes that the current system for assessing disabled people is essentially correct then say it loud and clear. If she is elected leader then she takes the party through the lobbies with the Tories

At the moment though nobody is being clear in what they believe in.

If Labour wants to be Tory but nicer then fine but don't complain if those of us who oppose this approach do not support it

I am fed up of being expected to vote Labour as it will always be better than what the Tories are. In the end all we do is stay on the agenda set by others. I want to believe in something and I want a party that has clear convictions and the courage to argue for them. Set out the principles. Policy can follow after but a principle needs to be set and stuck to!

This lack of conviction is why the party lost voters in 2015 to other parties

I agree.

If Labour is always to be three steps behind the Conservatives (ie not quite as bad as they are) where does that leave us? A "move to the left" by Labour is, increasingly, becoming a move to the right - but just not at the same rate as that of the Conservatives. We can't continue to allow the Conservatives (and most of the press) to define the ever-shifting "centre". Jeremy Corbyn is, at the very least, making a good fist of putting across that argument.


Good morfternoon, everyone.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by tinyclanger2 »

af'nin' PF.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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onebuttonmonkey
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by onebuttonmonkey »

PorFavor wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
HindleA wrote:Bold and radical alone,plays well in the gallery,it will however ensure Labour will be consigned to the opposition benches.The most progression was made via a broad church with the nominally right of the party playing a pivotal role engendering cross party support,for example Morris,whose legislation ,some 45 years later still fundamentally utilised for the betterment of many.

How bold and radical depends on what is being proposed

Believing in something and having the courage and conviction to see it through is another! If Cooper believes that the current system for assessing disabled people is essentially correct then say it loud and clear. If she is elected leader then she takes the party through the lobbies with the Tories

At the moment though nobody is being clear in what they believe in.

If Labour wants to be Tory but nicer then fine but don't complain if those of us who oppose this approach do not support it

I am fed up of being expected to vote Labour as it will always be better than what the Tories are. In the end all we do is stay on the agenda set by others. I want to believe in something and I want a party that has clear convictions and the courage to argue for them. Set out the principles. Policy can follow after but a principle needs to be set and stuck to!

This lack of conviction is why the party lost voters in 2015 to other parties

I agree.

If Labour is always to be three steps behind the Conservatives (ie not quite as bad as they are) where does that leave us? A "move to the left" by Labour is, increasingly, becoming a move to the right - but just not at the same rate as that of the Conservatives. We can't continue to allow the Conservatives (and most of the press) to define the ever-shifting "centre". Jeremy Corbyn is, at the very least, making a good fist of putting across that argument.


Good morfternoon, everyone.
Well said both. Far better than I could say in far fewer words than I'd use.
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by HindleA »

NB Not expressed very well.Bold and radical ALONE,hopefully makes the point clear.
howsillyofme1
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by howsillyofme1 »

I would start by setting a rule for all MPs, especially Shadow Cabinet

No-one to say Labour overspent between 97 and 2010

The financial crisis was caused by private debt incurred through over lax regulation of the financial sector

If the party apologises for spending in that time then what was the legacy? Iraq? Anyone who remembers the Tories from thenwill know how much they hate the public sector and how they are going about destroying it again

As a final point a clear statement that the public sector can deliver as well or not better than the private sector in many cases. Outsourcing should focus more on Quality rather just cost. Poor quality cheaper solutions lead to more expense in the long run. Any outsourcing to the private sector will be open and transparent and the public sector should be considered preferentially with the decision being open and transparent as well. Private sector expertise is often needed but a quality supplier will also be more expensive than a cowboy
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by AngryAsWell »

With Labour fixated by Corbyn, the Tories have taken advantage of a feeble opposition. Here’s how they did it...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -ownership" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by rebeccariots2 »

This is good from Keegan - again. Particularly interesting on the economy.
Labour’s past is being disinterred. But what about the Tories?
Jeremy Corbyn has been criticised as a throwback, but he is a timely reminder to his party of its values. And history has hardly been kinder to the Conservatives

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... SApp_Other" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

tinyclanger2 wrote:
ephemerid wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:Exactly.

Ah how I miss Imageark.
He's around, TC - his posts get lost in the mass (no, morass) of arguments, trolling, etc. BTL at the G these days.
It would be great to entice him over here.
Style of thing :)
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mikems
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by mikems »

As I said the other day, this appears to be a general phenomenon in western countries. Bernie Sanders is the US's Corbyn.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128034231" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Obviously different there in terms of winning power, but the same ideological divides exist in the Democratic party as the Labour party, surely an effect of the global economy, not something specific to the politics of either country. So all talk of 1983, Michael Foot and the rest, is really meaningless, except as propaganda tools to leverage public opinion.
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by PorFavor »

rebeccariots2 wrote:This is good from Keegan - again. Particularly interesting on the economy.
Labour’s past is being disinterred. But what about the Tories?
Jeremy Corbyn has been criticised as a throwback, but he is a timely reminder to his party of its values. And history has hardly been kinder to the Conservatives

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... SApp_Other" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Hello. Another William Keegan fan!
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by howsillyofme1 »

AngryAsWell wrote:With Labour fixated by Corbyn, the Tories have taken advantage of a feeble opposition. Here’s how they did it...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -ownership" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Feeble and servile press aided by Harman and the mixed messages coming from the putative leaders with continued sniping from the Blairites

Very little to do with Corbyn and the rest of the party

Anyway what are they supposed to do with a Tory majority, a broken Lib Dem Party and the SNP playing silly buggers

Get out there and say what they are corrupt, elitist, lying bastards!

Perhaps a bit politer but you get my gist - still think an MP or two could sacrifice a week in Parliament by calling them what they are though. Would make the front pages and if it was the right subject!

We cannot win in 2020 by being polite and friends with everyone. If people voted in 2015 for the Tories because they liked their policies then they can bugger off. If they voted for them be caused they believed their lies then we will only win them back by pointing this out loudly and continuously
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by refitman »

onebuttonmonkey wrote:By the way: I was in about the fifth or sixth row. I tweeted a picture looking back from my seat some fifteen, thirty minutes before it started.

https://twitter.com/onebuttonmonkey/sta ... 76/photo/1

In case anyone wonders why it's so exciting and invigorating.
Bah, tweeting about people in seats (or lack thereof), where are your policies???????

/petercs ;)
PorFavor
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by PorFavor »

AngryAsWell wrote:With Labour fixated by Corbyn, the Tories have taken advantage of a feeble opposition. Here’s how they did it...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -ownership" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for the link.

From it -
Corbyn’s leadership rival Liz Kendall, who is considered to be the most aligned with the politics of Blair, said the comments demonstrated that there was “nothing new about Corbyn’s politics”. “It is just a throwback to the past, not the change we need for our party or our country,” she said. “We are a party of the future, not a preservation society.”
Yes. Yes! Let's not preserve decency, caring, common sense etc.

How many people (who may or may not have supported the replacement of Clause IV) can honestly say that its replacement achieved its own aims as outlined below?
Clause IV, which backed “common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange” was removed from the constitution at a special Labour conference in Easter 1995 when the party was led by Blair.

It was replaced with a commitment to “a thriving private sector and high-quality public services where those undertakings essential to the common good are either owned by the public or accountable to them”.


Edited

It's? It's own aims? That's something I don't even need to think about, as a rule. I'm going for a self-flagellation session and then, possibly, a lie down.
Last edited by PorFavor on Sun 09 Aug, 2015 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
mikems
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by mikems »

The closer we get to the situation facing people - our parents and grandparents- in the 1930s, the more impossible it seems for many of us that we can ever do what they did and turn the situation on its head.

But we can, you know. It might seem impossible to us that we can have full employment and proper housing and a secure society for all, but they faced much worse with much less, and did it.
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by LadyCentauria »

Morningtons, mes braves. You've all set me thinking - and at this early hour (which is a late hour from my end so there's some risk of incoherence!)

In my view whomever the Labour leader may be we need not only strong and coherent policies but ones whose message can be mainlined into people's hearts/guts, with the finer details then being filtered into/through their heads. And those policies and their message need to be positive ones to counteract the years of negativity, fear, and divisiveness that has been fed to people - perhaps hitting their hearts/guts, perhaps their heads/minds, but often bypassing the frontal lobes and striking straight at the right-hand side of the amygdala. Anyhow, the thing is we need to be winning hearts and minds and doing that, consistently, over the years through to the next General Election - through the local elections, the Scottish and Welsh Assemblies/Parliaments, the London Mayoral/Assembly elections, and the blasted EU Referendum. Labour has to get good at creating imaginative 'can-do' advertising/infomercials that lay out Labour's solutions to the problems the people of this country are facing and that don't shy away from showing where the Cameron- & Osborne-led Governments have caused or contributed to those problems - and where they've lied.

Here's what I don't think we need. Frank Field has written a piece over at the other place. He wants to know which of the leadership candidates, especially JC, is going to be brave enough to "make the hard calls." Now, I agree with him that Labour has to reclaim the real Living Wage plan; have workable plans to increase productivity to support decent wages; develop a - he says 'welfare system', I say Social Security - system to properly support and care for those in need, whether temporarily or for a lifetime; to ensure the NHS can meet the demands on it and do it well; that enough housing (of all types) is built so that no-one need fear never having a home to call their own; and much more. I disagree with him profoundly and, well, viscerally that the obstacle to achieving all those things is the "Blair/Brown policy of open borders" - which I don't think has ever really existed. So, to him (it seems) the problem is Immigration - just as it is in the minds of much of the populations. The thing is that a fair proportion of people's minds tend to change when they meet actual immigrants; there's another proportion of anti-immigrant people who would gain little-or-no satisfaction from a further tightening of EU 'free-movement' rules because their problem with immigrants is darker-skinned people, people who 'don't speak the language', people who 'don't integrate' (whatever that means) and/or people with the 'wrong' religion - and we're not going to be 'repatriating' people whose roots, here, might go back to more than a thousand years.

Field is a bit of a 'Marmite' character, to me, but in an odd way because a lot of the time I like/agree/respect what he says and then, blam, I'm repelled. Yes, an expanding population (however it is caused) puts added stresses on the services and infrastructure of this country, especially when successive governments are trying to 'shrink' the state and hive responsibility for it off to outsourcing firms - or sell anything that is vaguely profit-making for a quick buck and probably a seat on the board in a few years time. But the answer to that is not to slam the doors shut, surely? That just leads to different problems. Anyway, here's his article (which someone might well have posted already, due my slowth of thunking and typong) in which he asks the questions but doesn't clearly spell out what he wants the answer to his 'hard calls' to be...
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -questions

I think we need a campaign of myth-busting: myths such as 'we'll need to build a house every seven seconds just to house the immigrants' - as if a family of four needed a house each; such as 'we're full'; such as 'they can just walk in here and get given everything'; or 'I wish I got £26,000 a year'; 'concreting over the whole country'; and many other current memes.

Ach, I've not got the answers either. At least Burnham and Corbyn have said they could work together so, barring 'events', they'll be my first and second preferences in some order or other. Whether or not, and if so, how to use my third and, possibly, fourth preferences I do not know. I know I need tea so I'll brew a big pot and fire up the Gaggia in Ernst's Kitchen in case anyone wants coffee, instead...
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

There is tabloid gossip this morning concerning Kendall and the MP for Barrow, btw ;)

Must say that Corbyn's supposed offer to restore the "old" Clause 4 doesn't get my pulse racing - strikes me as a campaign retreating to its (I know this is a dread phrase much loved by Very Serious People, but I can't think of a better one here) "comfort zone". I voted for the rewrite two decades ago and have absolutely no doubts it was the correct decision - the old version had become irrevocably conflated with a Soviet-style command economy, which meant its demise following the fall of communism was inevitable (Blair just brought it forward a bit - John Smith also had plans to sideline, though not formally abolish, it)

As already stated, many of New Labour's failings can be summed up as not living up to the *new* Clause 4.
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mikems
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by mikems »

The current clause IV is also outdated. We are at the end of neo-liberalism's tide, not its beginning.

Corbyn is not saying he wants to 'restore' the old Clause IV, but that we need a new one and that it needs to be widely debated.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by rebeccariots2 »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:There is tabloid gossip this morning concerning Kendall and the MP for Barrow, btw ;)

Must say that Corbyn's supposed offer to restore the "old" Clause 4 doesn't get my pulse racing - strikes me as a campaign retreating to its (I know this is a dread phrase much loved by Very Serious People, but I can't think of a better one here) "comfort zone". I voted for the rewrite two decades ago and have absolutely no doubts it was the correct decision - the old version had become irrevocably conflated with a Soviet-style command economy, which meant its demise following the fall of communism was inevitable (Blair just brought it forward a bit - John Smith also had plans to sideline, though not formally abolish, it)

As already stated, many of New Labour's failings can be summed up as not living up to the *new* Clause 4.
Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 48m48 minutes ago
And: "His leadership would be the opposite of top-down changes. He says we need some forms of public ownership in some cases, such as rail"

Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 49m49 minutes ago
Corbyn spokesperson:
'Jeremy is not saying he wants to return to the old clause IV, nor does he want a big 'moment' such as that."
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by rebeccariots2 »

@ LadyC

And what is Ernst's Kitchen serving up for brunch to go with the coffee / tea?
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Thank you for the clarifications. Will teach me (again) not to accept media claims without checking first - though I did say "supposed" :mrgreen:
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ohsocynical
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by ohsocynical »

I haven't decided whether I'm even going to vote yet.

Yesterday I filled in the YouGov poll. Tried to be as honest as I could given that I've been a bit distracted by Mr Ohso's health over the last few months.

I truly don't have a sense of what Burnham, Kendall and Cooper want apart from being leader and I'm not convinced they'll stick to what they are saying now, consequently I put don't know on their good and bad qualities questions.

I ticked 'principled' for Corbyn because he is; he lives by what he says.
If he was set on being Leader above all else, he'd make all sorts of concessions, but he isn't. And it's refreshing.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by AngryAsWell »

TobyLatimer wrote:Here's Burnham.

Calls for those on incapacity benefit to get fitter - Make people exercise more and taking there medication away

I'm not qualified enough to criticize what the video title seems to suggest, and the editing could make it possible these are just soundbites taken out of context ...

[youtube]SfZbgaYPYBo[/youtube]
Not once is incapacity benefits mentioned.
This is not new film, at a guess I'd say it was filmed during the last Labour government around the time of the Olympics and the "sports for all" initiatives' were part of policy to improve overall health of the population. Hence the mention of free swimming for young and old.
There is nothing in there about "making" people exercise nor anything about "taking medication away", other than the observation that in trials it has been found that in some cases exercise has been found to be more effective than anti depressants.
Whoever put that together, with that title is - at best - being disingenuous and at worst is producing anti Burnham propaganda for whatever reasons drive them.
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by TobyLatimer »

In a rare show of tender emotion, Iain Duncan Smith once exclaimed

"I love Frank Field to bits. He's a good friend and a very good politician"

http://www.totalpolitics.com/print/5458 ... mith.thtml

A few more of the revelations had me laughing out loud (which makes a change)

"What is your favourite book?

To Kill a Mockingbird but I also love War and Peace.

Your best friend in politics?

That's a difficult one. I guess the person that I know best and am closest to is Bernard Jenkin.

Favourite film?

It's A Wonderful Life.

Political hero?

I think Robert Peel is probably my main political hero, although I have others. William Wilberforce would be the other. I'll have two if you don't mind.

Is there a quotation that you find particularly inspirational?

The one that I constantly think of is "All that is required for the triumph of evil is that the good men should do nothing."

What makes you cry?

I don't know really. I get soppy over commitment, I suppose. People who commit everything to something makes me emotional.

Which period in history would you most liked to have lived through?

The Second World War

Which opposition politician do you most respect?

I actually get on quite well with a number of them. Jack Straw. I like Jack. I get on well with him. He's a survivor. And in politics sometimes you have to respect the survivors. He's consummate about it. And he makes people laugh while he survives."
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by gilsey »

SpinningHugo wrote: Ed Miliband - a man who has wrecked his life through hubris.
What a strange view of the world you have.
Ed seems to me to have a perfectly good life, perhaps you meant 'career', even then I wouldn't necessarily agree.
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by RogerOThornhill »

re the above...

Pensions minister Steve Webb has traditionally been seen as on the left of the Liberal Democrats?

The left?

Is that the same Steve Webb who contributed a chapter to The Orange Book: Reclaiming Liberalism?

Oh...that left.
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by PorFavor »

AngryAsWell wrote:
TobyLatimer wrote:Here's Burnham.

Calls for those on incapacity benefit to get fitter - Make people exercise more and taking there medication away

I'm not qualified enough to criticize what the video title seems to suggest, and the editing could make it possible these are just soundbites taken out of context ...

[youtube]SfZbgaYPYBo[/youtube]
Not once is incapacity benefits mentioned.
This is not new film, at a guess I'd say it was filmed during the last Labour government around the time of the Olympics and the "sports for all" initiatives' were part of policy to improve overall health of the population. Hence the mention of free swimming for young and old.
There is nothing in there about "making" people exercise nor anything about "taking medication away", other than the observation that in trials it has been found that in some cases exercise has been found to be more effective than anti depressants.
Whoever put that together, with that title is - at best - being disingenuous and at worst is producing anti Burnham propaganda for whatever reasons drive them.
I imagine that there are people, both within and outside of the the Labour Party, who are on constant duty - keeping the "anti whoever (unless it's Liz Kendall) stands a chance of winning" embers glowing.
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by ohsocynical »

mikems wrote:The closer we get to the situation facing people - our parents and grandparents- in the 1930s, the more impossible it seems for many of us that we can ever do what they did and turn the situation on its head.

But we can, you know. It might seem impossible to us that we can have full employment and proper housing and a secure society for all, but they faced much worse with much less, and did it.

That's exactly what I've been saying. Tinkering around on the edges and playing kissy kissy with the right isn't going to mend us five years or more down the road. Drastic problems will need drastic solutions.

Do our MPs have the guts to take on board what we are telling them will be needed? Don't think so.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by PorFavor »

Take a tip from waiters: workers’ rights are being destroyed

Nick Cohen (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -destroyed
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by PorFavor »

Oh - if you read the Nick Cohen article (above) you'll see that Pizza Express get to keep, tax-free, "their" share (ie the 8% - yes, 8% - credit card handling charge) of the workers' tips.Tips are usually taxable.
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by AngryAsWell »

I've put Andy Burnham's manifesto in the "Andy Burnham" folder in Features & Analysis.

http://flythenest.org/viewtopic.php?p=62615#p62615" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Will add YC, LK & JC's manifestoes soon as I find them.
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by howsillyofme1 »

PorFavor wrote:Oh - if you read the Nick Cohen article (above) you'll see that Pizza Express get to keep, tax-free, "their" share (ie the 8% - yes, 8% - credit card handling charge) of the workers' tips.Tips are usually taxable.
And when we do get some good journalism pointing this out, Labour should be shouting it out....these companies who have been given tax reductions are stealing (in a sense) money from poorly paid employees.

This is the reality of a Tory Britain, exploitation of the powerless. No choices because now safety net for them. Be exploited or be penniless!
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by rebeccariots2 »

It is Hen Harrier Day today.
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by AngryAsWell »

Have spent some time looking for YC, LK & JC manifestoes but with no luck, they either have not produced one or they have not been published yet. I did find a Telegraph article setting out JC's policies (seemingly without bias) but not sure it's right to use that in his folder - so have not put it in. I can add the link here if anyone want's it.
Does anyone here know if the statement (from the Telegraph)
"Jeremy Corbyn supports the idea of Northern Ireland leaving the United Kingdom and joining the Republic"
....is from JC, or a supposition from a passing comment he once said?
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by yahyah »

rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning all.

Sorry to reproduce this inevitable sour jibe here:
John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 12m12 minutes ago
I think we might find that if Corbyn wins, Creasy & Flint would turn out to be "too busy" to serve in shadow cabinet http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 46994.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
whilst from that story 'Labour deputy leadership candidates: We will serve under Jeremy Corbyn if he wins top job'
... Angela Eagle, the Shadow Leader of the Commons, running for the deputy leadership, told The Independent on Sunday that if Mr Corbyn won, the party, including its top MPs, would have to “shut up” and recognise that he was the democratically elected leader. She warned that any MPs plotting a coup against Mr Corbyn were following a “recipe for disaster”. She said her experience as a member of Labour’s ruling National Executive Committee and policy forum meant she could unite the party in turbulent times. Her fellow contenders Caroline Flint, Stella Creasy, Ben Bradshaw and Tom Watson said that they, too, would serve under Mr Corbyn...
If I were Creasy or Flint I think I might want to clarify my position beyond the doubt of sour Rentoul - who appears to think he knows them best.


Stella was interviewed on Radio 4 the other morning.

Unless my memory is playing me up, she made it clear then that she would work with Corbyn if both are elected to the roles they are standing for.
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by onebuttonmonkey »

AngryAsWell wrote:Have spent some time looking for YC, LK & JC manifestoes but with no luck, they either have not produced one or they have not been published yet. I did find a Telegraph article setting out JC's policies (seemingly without bias) but not sure it's right to use that in his folder - so have not put it in. I can add the link here if anyone want's it.
Does anyone here know if the statement (from the Telegraph)
"Jeremy Corbyn supports the idea of Northern Ireland leaving the United Kingdom and joining the Republic"
....is from JC, or a supposition from a passing comment he once said?

JC has been releasing papers on different bits: environment, Norther Futures, housing, Working with Women, economy.

There's probably a link for them all in one place, but for the time being, they're listed off his news page:

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/j ... 1438938988
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/j ... 1438626641
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/j ... 1438782182
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/j ... 1438076296
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/j ... 1437556345

He's been announcing them as a mixture of consultation and specialist advice and is asking for anyone who has ideas to contact him with suggestions, comments and the rest. You can say what you like about whether it's effective or practical or whatever, but he really does demonstrate his interest in collaboration and bottom-up policy agreement.

I've not found anything from Cooper and Kendall seems to have nothing other than the bullet points on her site, too. But maybe someone more familiar with their campaigns can help.
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by SpinningHugo »

This on the crap behaviour of those passing on nudge nudge rumours about Kendall is good.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/lab ... 47049.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by yahyah »

howsillyofme1 wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:With Labour fixated by Corbyn, the Tories have taken advantage of a feeble opposition. Here’s how they did it...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -ownership" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Feeble and servile press aided by Harman and the mixed messages coming from the putative leaders with continued sniping from the Blairites

Very little to do with Corbyn and the rest of the party

Anyway what are they supposed to do with a Tory majority, a broken Lib Dem Party and the SNP playing silly buggers

Get out there and say what they are corrupt, elitist, lying bastards!

Perhaps a bit politer but you get my gist - still think an MP or two could sacrifice a week in Parliament by calling them what they are though. Would make the front pages and if it was the right subject!

We cannot win in 2020 by being polite and friends with everyone. If people voted in 2015 for the Tories because they liked their policies then they can bugger off. If they voted for them be caused they believed their lies then we will only win them back by pointing this out loudly and continuously

That's why we in the YahYah household keep edging back to Corbyn.

Maybe, in the end, it won't be about policies, Clause 4 or whatever.
It will be about having a leader who is unequivocal, direct, polite but brutally honest about Tory corruption, cruelty, laziness & ineptitude.

I'd like to see every Labour spokesperson ask the person interviewing them how much they earn and would they object to paying more tax if they are highly paid.

Put questions like that politely to Evan Davies, Emily Maitliss, John Humphries, Sophie Ridge, Tom Newton- Murdoch Toady and see how they react. Watch them splutter.
Don't let the media set traps for Labour, be on the attack all the time.
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by PorFavor »

SpinningHugo wrote:This on the crap behaviour of those passing on nudge nudge rumours about Kendall is good.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/lab ... 47049.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for the link.

However, most of the "smears" are valid political comment. As for the affair - I knew nothing about it (and cared less) until this "defence" article happily trumpeted the allegation.
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Like 95% of the commentariat, Merrick has been blindly pro-Kendall from the beginning.

Is the idea that two people, who both recently separated from their long term partners, are now in a relationship that "scandalous" anyway?

I like John Woodcock despite not entirely sharing his political outlook, and quite honestly he deserves a break (his time since becoming an MP has not been entirely a barrel of laughs)

Frankly there is worse, more insidious, stuff written about LK by the very same right wing press who have purported to be bigging her up.

(you know the drill come 2020 if she *was* to become leader - not that she will, of course - "why oh why is Liz in her late 40s and still childless and unmarried" faux sympathetic concern trolling, pass the sick bag already; indeed it would be the "Ed is weird" routine reprised, and equally cynically coded)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by citizenJA »

Good-afternoon, everyone.
I've been experiencing intermittent technical difficulties.
Trying to resolve them scatters my attention.
I look forward to reading & posting here again soon.
love one another
cJA
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by yahyah »

AngryAsWell wrote:
TobyLatimer wrote:Here's Burnham.

Calls for those on incapacity benefit to get fitter - Make people exercise more and taking there medication away

I'm not qualified enough to criticize what the video title seems to suggest, and the editing could make it possible these are just soundbites taken out of context ...

[youtube]SfZbgaYPYBo[/youtube]
Not once is incapacity benefits mentioned.
This is not new film, at a guess I'd say it was filmed during the last Labour government around the time of the Olympics and the "sports for all" initiatives' were part of policy to improve overall health of the population. Hence the mention of free swimming for young and old.
There is nothing in there about "making" people exercise nor anything about "taking medication away", other than the observation that in trials it has been found that in some cases exercise has been found to be more effective than anti depressants.
Whoever put that together, with that title is - at best - being disingenuous and at worst is producing anti Burnham propaganda for whatever reasons drive them.

Exactly AngryAsWell.

Burnham is clearly talking about health/exercise in general. He talks about the benefits of exercise for all, and its role in health and well being including swimming etc.
It was filmed just after he became Health Minister.

This sort of misinformation and hatred spreading about Labour candidates does no one any good.
By all means call them out when they actually say something one may find objectionable to one's view or beliefs, but not when they aren't saying anything other than common & medical sense.

Who can honestly disagree with the viewpoint of having a fitter, healthier population, or that a Health minister may be promoting such ?
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by yahyah »

This is the speech that Andy was trailing in the film, from national archives, made 14th August 2009. He was focusing on 'building a more active Britain'.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... tion=email" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


''Speech by Andy Burnham MP, Secretary of State for Health, 13 August 2009: Fit for the future - can we build a more active Britain?

Last modified date:
14 August 2009
The next 10 years will be the most exciting decade in our sporting history. Opportunities are about to arise that we’ll never get again. That’s why I wanted to give this speech today. I wanted to talk about how we might use this moment in our history to build a more active, and healthier, society.

But, first, we must look at ourselves in the mirror and face an uncomfortable truth. For such a sport-loving nation, we are not as active as we should be. About 27 million of us don’t do the recommended 30 minutes of moderate exercise five times a week. 14 million, about one in three, don’t even manage one session.

There has been real progress – sport in schools has revived, free swimming is helping – but this is not a self-congratulatory speech.

Standing on the cusp of this decade of world-class sport, can we truly say we’re world-class in the way we encourage active lifestyles?

We publish today for the first time an international physical activity league table to help us all focus on the scale of the challenge. It places the UK in 21st place in Europe. Out of the premier league, firmly in the second tier, trailing way behind the pace-setters in Holland and Germany. We have to ask ourselves why. Part of the problem is that physical activity has for too long been an orphan policy in Government. Many Departments have a stake, but no one Department has taken overall responsibility.

So there are two things I want to make clear from the outset.

The first is that we can’t afford physical activity to be a floating issue in Whitehall any longer.

This orphan policy needs a loving home, and under my leadership, this will be in Richmond House, with the Department of Health becoming the lead Department for physical activity. It will be core business for us, core business for the NHS.

This completes work I started in my old job working with Alan Johnson. It comes from the recognition that sport and physical activity are complementary, but require different policy interventions. So Ben Bradshaw and I will pick it up and work together to bring clarity to the policy function.

The second is that we need a new ambition for physical activity commensurate with the ambition we’ve already shown in bidding to host the decade of sport, and in bringing more sporting success.

Five years ago, we set ourselves the target of coming fourth in the 2012 Olympic medal tables. People said it couldn’t be done. But it was achieved, four year ahead of schedule, in Beijing.

Let’s now set ourselves a comparable challenge for physical activity - to climb up to fourth place in the physical activity league table and become one of the best places in the world for promoting more active lifestyles by the end of the decade of sport. It’s a big ambition and no doubt some will say it’s impossible. But they said the same about Everton breaking back into the top four.

If we can’t aim high in this next decade, then we never will. And, it is one area where huge social change doesn’t require huge public spending. It will be achieved not by Government edict but by people working together, grassroots action.

But we can help. Working with councils, working with the NHS, working with sport and physical activity bodies, to make it as easy as possible for people to get active. That has to be our goal.

Just think of the legacy for the country if we got there. Nearly two billion pounds a year – more than £3,000 a minute – is spent treating conditions that could be prevented by regular exercise within the NHS.

But the potential benefits go far wider. If we get to fourth in the league table, and have physical activity rates up there with the best, the savings could be significantly larger.

Think of the impact on social care spending if we help more older people stay to active and independent for longer.

Think of the value to business if we can cut sickness rates and boost productivity.

And think of impact on the welfare bill if we helped more people off incapacity benefits or job seekers allowance or not go on in the first place. Over a third of the people on incapacity benefits have mental health problems or muscular or skeletal disorders – both of which are known to respond well to tailored physical activity programmes. So, in England, even if we can get just one per cent of them back into the workplace through active lifestyles, this would save the Exchequer £36 million and industry £31 million – that’s a combined saving to the economy of £67 million a year.

But, more than that, how many lives would be lifted and hopes raised?

Regular physical activity lifts self-esteem, raises ambition and aspirations, helps people contribute in all aspects of their life. It can bring people who feel low, lonely or isolated back in touch with their communities. Put simply, it makes us feel better about ourselves, more positive and better able to cope with what life throws at us.

It is a simple answer to life’s problems. But they same can be said at the other end of the scale - the macro challenges we face as a society.

Increasing active lifestyles is a simple answer, staring us in the face, to many of the big challenges facing our country today – rising obesity, the ageing society and sustainable public spending.

This isn’t just rhetoric. Other countries have already done it. Thirty years ago, Finland had some of the highest rates of heart disease in the world. As a result, the Government made a conscious decision to promote active lifestyles. And, through careful targeting of programmes, good use of natural assets, and strong engagement with business, it achieved a 50% increase in activity levels within a generation. Today, around half the population is active.

Of course, the other thing that’s distinctive about Finland’s success is the level of investment put into physical activity – some four per cent of total public spending. In this country, the figure is less than one per cent. Now this isn’t my spending bid for the next CSR. It’s an argument for spending differently, both across Government and particularly within the NHS.

Time and time again, you’ll find the cost of up-front investment is dwarfed by the price of failure. There are studies that show exercise was at least as successful as anti-depressant drugs in fighting depression – and prescribing pills is often our first answer.

So the central question is one of belief.

Do we really believe the business case stacks up? And if we do, as the savings can take time to materialise, do we have the courage to see it through?

We are in uncharted territory as we attempt to stimulate social change on the back of the global sporting events. The IOC president acknowledged this when he described our plans to get people active as part of the “distinctive magic” we will breathe into the Games. But the evidence from past sporting events suggests the Games are likely to have two distinct effects on the general public.

The first is the “demonstration effect,” which encourages people to rekindle their enthusiasm for a particular sport, or try out a new activity based on what they see on their TV screens.

This tends to spark a temporary surge in grassroots participation. The classic example is the Wimbledon effect that we see every year, in parks up and down the country, when tennis courts suddenly become heaving for a couple of weeks in June. The drawback is that the demonstration effect is normally temporary. Those same tennis courts tend to empty out soon after the last serve is struck on Centre Court. So the first trick we have to master is to ensure the demonstration effect is sustained and that it actually stimulates long-term participation.

The other drawback is that this effect tends to be focused on those who are already fairly sporty or inclined to ‘give things a go’. It doesn’t cut through to those who could benefit most from physical activity.

So this is where the second effect – the festival effect – becomes crucial. The festival effect works by building a sense of community involvement where everyone gets involved in activities, simply because they want to feel part of the occasion. In other words, it captures people’s imagination, catches the mood, as a way of boosting participation. This, for me, is the effect we need to maximise. And it’s where Change4Life, already delivering initiatives in the community, for the community and by the community, can make all the difference.

So how will we fulfil this ambition? How do we move ourselves from relegation contenders to playoff candidates in the international standings?

Today I want to set out a new four-point plan.

One, a new accord across Government – that matches the scale of our ambition and enables politicians and policy makers to lead from the front.

Two, a new awakening across the NHS – from the board to the ward – that active lifestyles are now an intrinsic part of 21st century health.

Three, a quantum shift in social attitudes, so that physical activity starts to resonate as a clinical need, not just a lifestyle choice.

And four, a sea change in local provision – to make active lifestyles universal: etched in people’s minds; woven into the very fabric of community life.

Let me add some detail to these points.

We need a new focus in Government to help set the right lead. Working with Tessa Jowell and Ben Bradshaw, I will bring together regular Ministerial summits on Physical Activity, involving all Ministers with a stake in physical activity. These summits will evaluate progress to date, and provide top tier forum to challenge ourselves, and constantly re-examine what more we can achieve across each Departmental area to meet these ambitions.

I’m also delighted to say that Mike Farrar, Chief Executive of the North West Strategic Health Authority, has agreed to take on the job of championing physical activity across the health service. As many of you know, Mike is steeped in these issues, from his early career as an aspiring sportsman, right through to his current role in the North West and as board member of Sport England, where he also served with distinction as interim chair. I’m confident he will be a terrific ambassador for change within the NHS.

We will get real progress when national focus in government is matched at local level. It’s heartening that more than half of all local areas have signed up to the sport and active recreation target. But when that is 100 per cent we are really in business.

This brings me to my second point of change - the need for culture change in the NHS, so that promoting physical activity moves from the periphery to the mainstream, integral to 21st century health care.

I want to see the NHS bodies leading from the front, striking up new partnerships to deliver better opportunities for people to get active. The NHS Operating Framework already makes promoting wellbeing a priority but it’s time to translate it into hard action. What we’ve learnt from the Let’s Get Moving trials in London surgeries is that where you have clear mechanisms in place to help GPs start a dialogue with people about physical fitness, the impact can be massive.

The pathways use the same ‘screen, intervene and follow-up’ process used to identify and support those who want to give up smoking or who need to reduce their alcohol intake. In effect, they position primary care as a gateway to local opportunities. And they allow health professionals to join forces with health trainers and fitness experts, to guide people who may not have thought about physical activity, or may be intimidated by the prospect of joining a sport or fitness club, towards things that work for them.

So the national roll-out of Let’s Get Moving this autumn can marry up primary care with local physical activity programmes. This is a potentially big change that makes some of the welcome experiments in the area of prescribing exercise become in time mainstream prescribing practice.

Of course, the flipside is that there has to be the right opportunities available. The message from me to PCTs and practice-based commissioners is not to wait for central Government schemes. You’ve got the green light. Be creative and ambitious. Do local deals – for instance with councils, local gyms and fitness centres – that open up those opportunities.Because we need to build programmes that capture public mood, and offer the would-be heart disease and cancer patients of tomorrow an easier route to healthier lifestyles today.

It’s vital we make full use of major sporting events as a catalyst. With Ben Bradshaw, I want to work to develop physical activity legacy plans alongside the sports legacy plans they have to promote physical activity – to maximise the ‘festival effect’ of this golden decade.

And this is also where Change4Life and the various activity sub-brands also come into their own. We’ve now got three activity-based sub-brands – Bike4Life, Swim4Life, Walk4Life – and will be introducing others such as Dance4Life and Play4life in the months ahead. It’s important we now start to use these brands as the basis of a coherent, meaningful and resonant grassroots offer.

What we’re looking for is a domino effect. A nudge from the centre to topple the first tile and then local community-based action carrying things forward.

Take dance4life. The way that John Sergeant and friends captured the public imagination over the last 18 months is a classic example of the ‘festival effect’ I spoke about earlier. If we move quickly and cleverly, we can turn this huge public interest into regular participation.

Next month, therefore, we’ll establish a new Dance Champions Group under the chairmanship of Rod Aldridge, and I’m pleased to say we’ve already got Arlene Phillips from Strictly Come Dancing on board, and Darren Bennett, Angela Rippon and Capital Radio’s Lisa Snowdon. They will bring the dance sector behind a major project to boost participation in the run up to 2012 – more details to follow shortly. And they will also help to build the profile of the Dance4Life brand and lay the groundwork for a nation-wide, community-based dance offer.

The beauty of dance is its simplicity. It doesn’t take a huge amount of investment. You can start with regular dance sessions in any decent local venue – a school, a church hall, a working men’s club – and you go from there.

The same is true of organised walks. Again, the nudge comes from the centre – and we’ve just launched a campaign with Natural England to deliver 200,000 more people active by 2012 through Walking for Health. Under the Walk4Life brand, this programme already provides a service for an astonishing 30,000 people every week.

In effect, we’ve already got the kernel of a national offer. And in the future, if we can connect this up with Let’s Get Moving, we can start to make structured walks available in every part of the country and reaching out to those who can most benefit. Not least, there are the social benefits of meeting new people.

Similarly for cycling, there are already strong partnerships in place with Active Travel partners, commercial sponsors and expert groups like Cycling England and British Cycling. And Sky, who’ve put great support behind the sport, have worked with British Cycling on a scheme to encourage people of all ages to back on their bikes. This summer, Sky and British cycling have created a series of Skyride events, with mass participation rides, on traffic-free roads, staged in five major cities, plus hundreds of smaller local rides led by trained British Cycling ride-leaders. The Department of Health will work with both of these partners over the next six months to develop model for a national programme of additional cycling opportunities in line with the local Skyride initiative.

So in effect, we want to achieve for cycling what the cross-Government Free Swimming programme has done for swimming – to create simple, consistent and easy-to-access opportunities for as many parts of the country as possible.

And then, of course, there’s swimming and the Free Swimming scheme that is a real passion of mine. The tremendous public response since it launched – driven the excellent work of the 200-plus councils who signed up – answers the sceptics who say this focus on physical activity will leave people cold. Over 20 million young people and senior citizens are now eligible for the programme. 4.4 million free swims made since the scheme began in April, and there are reports of queues round the blocks of leisure centres that are taking part.

Free Swimming is symbolic. It’s game-changing. A real statement of intent. And it works because it delivers a clear, simple, resonant message that cuts through to people at large. I see this in my constituency where I’d proud to say people of all ages can swim for free.

I believe we need these big ideas to break through the rumble of smaller, local initiatives. And that’s why I now want to give councils the chance to go further.

So on top of the £1 million we’re now making available for councils who didn’t sign up first time round, we’ll also be looking at how we can support existing free swimming councils to innovate and extend their offer.

I’ll be setting out more detail on this in the coming weeks. But I’m particularly keen to see more councils take the plunge – literally and figuratively – by making swimming free to everyone, not just certain age groups.

And that’s really my long term aspiration for Change4Life. Each of these activities – dance, swimming, walking and cycling – are universal in scope. They can appeal to everyone. They can benefit everyone.

So can we now foresee a future where every community aspires to a free and comprehensive offer across these four brands? For me, this is the logical way forward. Of correcting the anomaly, that you get free treatment on the NHS, but you have to pay to prevent the illness in the first place.

That’s the sea change we need, both in policy and practice. That’s where we need to show belief, conviction, vision. And what better time than now, in the glow of this carnival of elite sport now upon us, to push ahead and make it happen?

So August 2019, we come back to this room. Successful events staged. A rack of medals and even a couple of big trophies won. Great memories. But the biggest prize – everybody more active than they were.

No pressure. Let’s go and do it.

Thank you very much.''
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by AngryAsWell »

onebuttonmonkey wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Have spent some time looking for YC, LK & JC manifestoes but with no luck, they either have not produced one or they have not been published yet. I did find a Telegraph article setting out JC's policies (seemingly without bias) but not sure it's right to use that in his folder - so have not put it in. I can add the link here if anyone want's it.
Does anyone here know if the statement (from the Telegraph)
"Jeremy Corbyn supports the idea of Northern Ireland leaving the United Kingdom and joining the Republic"
....is from JC, or a supposition from a passing comment he once said?

JC has been releasing papers on different bits: environment, Norther Futures, housing, Working with Women, economy.

There's probably a link for them all in one place, but for the time being, they're listed off his news page:

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/j ... 1438938988
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/j ... 1438626641
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/j ... 1438782182
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/j ... 1438076296
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/j ... 1437556345

He's been announcing them as a mixture of consultation and specialist advice and is asking for anyone who has ideas to contact him with suggestions, comments and the rest. You can say what you like about whether it's effective or practical or whatever, but he really does demonstrate his interest in collaboration and bottom-up policy agreement.

I've not found anything from Cooper and Kendall seems to have nothing other than the bullet points on her site, too. But maybe someone more familiar with their campaigns can help.
Thanks - have put it in his folder here

http://flythenest.org/viewtopic.php?p=62632#p62632" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by yahyah »

Off topic:

Anyone in the Brighton/Sussex area who could re-home an affectionate 9 year old Siamese Blue cat, or know anyone who could ?

My neighbour is down there at the moment and emailed me, as one of her relatives is involved with animal welfare, and this lovely cat is apparently not coping emotionally with being looked after by the RSPCA and needs a loving home.
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by AngryAsWell »

Ministers consider scrapping exam boards, as students await A-level results
Schools minister, Nick Gibb, says there is ‘a case for long-term, fundamental reform’ of the examination board system

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... n_b-gdnedu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by LadyCentauria »

TobyLatimer wrote:Here's Burnham.

Calls for those on incapacity benefit to get fitter - Make people exercise more and taking there medication away

I'm not qualified enough to criticize what the video title seems to suggest, and the editing could make it possible these are just soundbites taken out of context ...

[youtube]SfZbgaYPYBo[/youtube]
I've been trying (but failing) to track down the uncut version of that interview (I think it's just the interviewer's questions that have been cut out) but he makes no mention of Incapacity Benefit, and didn't suggest taking anyone's medication away. That title is very misleading indeed! He did talk about the benefits of a healthy lifestyle, the benefits of exercise, the benefits of playing sports. But those were the only mentions of 'benefits' - and it was 'benefits' as in 'good for you' rather than 'benefits' as in Social Security entitlements.

It had recently been made possible, as he said in that clips vid, for GPs to prescribe exercise 'in certain cases' rather than anti-depressants, in that year - 2009 - but it was as a first option or an addition - not as a replacement, and certainly not forcing someone to go cold-turkey from prescribed meds and ordering them to the gym/swimming instead. And, for some people, getting active and being in a social setting can be a preferable way of dealing with sadness and/or isolation, as a change in routine, the boost to endorphins that comes with exercise, improvement in muscle-tone, stamina, heart and lung function, often an improvement in ability to sleep, even just having something new to do and meeting new people can make the world a bit brighter. But surely no good GP would think a few exercise sessions was the way to deal with clinical depression, or other serious mental illnesses, brain-disorders, nor for serious injuries or disabilities? Certainly, my doctor would not send someone off to a gym or exercise class without a full check-up first, a serious conversation, and probably at least one session with a physiotherapist. The funding from that scheme helped pay for my doc to get me a 9-week aqua-therapy course (oh that beautiful very-warm non-chlorine pool!) to help me prepare for going back to riding with the RDA - after a long set-back - but he got my physiotherapist's approval even for that. His motto has always been, "Get fit to exercise, don't exercise to get fit." The free and/or subsidised swimming, at public pools, was taken up by a lot of people, too - but it was all a extension of the Change4Life programme and the Decade of Sport/Olympic Legacy - and it was the latter that had taken him to make a speech, meet people, and get interviewed by ITN at that athletics track.
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yahyah
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by yahyah »

Thanks Lady C.

We all get angry, lord knows I've done it enough, just the name Nick Clegg used to send me incendiary and Alex Salmond, David Cameron and the way Natalie Bennett helped the Tories by smearing Labour with the help of Sturgeon's lies send my blood pressure shooting up.

But there sometimes seems to be a level of real hatred that does not do the person feeling it any good at all. I worry sometimes at the social media hate campaigns.
Wishing harm on our political opponents reduces our humanity.

If the 'wrong person' wins - and it will be a different wrong person for each of us - that will be the right person for many people.
In the end it's all about our own ego, that we must be right and everyone else is wrong/lying/an idiot/a traitor/a 'red Tory' if they disagree.

We all come to our own conclusions about politics via many routes.
Our experience, and research seems to be suggesting that even pre-natal conditions may affect our personality and ways of seeing the world, makes us who we are.
We will never all agree, but to live in abject hatred of our opponents just harms us, not them.

It's a lesson I cannot fully grasp myself, I admit that.

But it just is awful seeing stuff about Liz Kendall being an ****ing Tory b****, or revolting stuff about Kendall & Burnham.
Reminds me of why I usually shy away from the 'I'm a real lefty' brigade.

But I don't think Corbyn is like that, which is why it would be a shame if his more excitable supporters cast a bad light onto his campaign.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by RogerOThornhill »

AngryAsWell wrote:Ministers consider scrapping exam boards, as students await A-level results
Schools minister, Nick Gibb, says there is ‘a case for long-term, fundamental reform’ of the examination board system

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... n_b-gdnedu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Gibb doing his usual "We have to do something. This is something. Therefore we should do this".

I still want to know why he was put back into a department from which he was sacked a few years prior.* If he was that poor or was responsible for a cock-up, shouldn't we be told?

* Actually I think he was there to keep Morgan on the right path.

Good article about the wrongheadedness of going to one exam board here.

https://heatherfblog.wordpress.com/2015 ... am-boards/
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yahyah
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by yahyah »

RobertSnozers wrote:@Yahyah

Very well said.


Thanks Rob. From you, that means something.
yahyah
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Re: Weekend Edition - Saturday/Sunday 8th/9th August

Post by yahyah »

Just remind me of my own post when I curse about someone !
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