Thursday 18th September 2014

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:32 pm

54% No, ouch.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:35 pm

YouGov https://yougov.co.uk/opi/currently showing important topics to be:
Scottish Independence
Andy Murray
and
Danger Mouse

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:37 pm

Retweeted by Ian Dunt
David Wyllie ‏@journodave 5m
YouGov Final Poll: No 54 Yes 46 #indyref per @electionista

I think this is the on-the-day poll result.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:38 pm

YouGov Calling it for no.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:39 pm

StephenDolan wrote:54% No, ouch.

But it is really just another poll. So less accurate than an exit poll.

If the shy noes argument applies that poll will understate the no vote just as much as the 92 exit poll exaggerated Labour's vote.

If the sample is skewed the other way - "There will be dancing in the streets of St Johnstone tonight."

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:39 pm

Alex Salmond not appearing in public until the final result declared..

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:45 pm

Can Dougie Alexander's smirk get any bigger?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:46 pm

http://blogs.rollcall.com/five-by-five/ ... ding/?dcz=
oh god. our evil English ways mean we're on target for North Korean annihilation. If only we hadn't let ourselves be invaded by the Beakers, the Romans, the Saxons, the Danes, the Vikings, the Normans and their German in-laws. We only have ourselves to blame.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:46 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Alex Salmond not appearing in public until the final result declared..

Jim McColl appearing for the SNP/Yes side on Newsnight. You'd think they could at least have fielded somebody who lives in the UK, if not Scotland.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:48 pm

Dan F Hodges has just tweeted "no has won". Yikes!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:48 pm

Oh dear, I;m not flavour of the month...this is from a debate about the money going into academy sponsor's pockets.

DonEvans RogerOThornhill
18 September 2014 6:51pm

Recommend
0
I've already told you that there is no point in continuing this thread. There's no point in talking to a jobs worth, you're too bigoted to reach agreement with.

He told me to fuck off earlier when I wondered out loud why he seemed to be anti local authorities...that one got deleted. The jobsworth came out too.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:50 pm

fortunately the panic buying of vacuum cleaners means things aren't quite as bad as they could be.
http://www.currencynews.co.uk/forecast/ ... p-jpy.html

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:51 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Dan F Hodges has just tweeted "no has won". Yikes!

Mr Kasparov - I think we both understand the power of football magic, and the dangers of leaving the stadium before the whistle has blown.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:59 pm

Just to add a rumour from David Maddox at the Scotsman:

David Maddox@DavidPBMaddox

Early briefings: Edinburgh West 4/1 No Dundee apparently 55 Yes also reports of strong No vote Edinburgh East #indyts #indyref

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:04 pm

The dramatic weather of this morning has just returned. What does that mean, I wonder? Hang on - I'll get my seaweed out . . .

I think Jeremy Vine and his Peter Snow impression has sapped the last of my energy. But I've done well, by my standards, to make it this far.

I'll stay logged in, in case I wander back during the night. (I sound like something from a Victorian ghost story.)

Meanwhile - have a good night\morning.

Goodnight, everyone. I'll have to try not to dream of DippyJHodges, now.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:04 pm

Apparently Farage describing the Referendum as a farce from start to finish.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:06 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:Just to add a rumour from David Maddox at the Scotsman:

David Maddox@DavidPBMaddox

Early briefings: Edinburgh West 4/1 No Dundee apparently 55 Yes also reports of strong No vote Edinburgh East #indyts #indyref

Do you have any more info on that Dundee "result"?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:07 pm

HindleA wrote:Apparently Farage describing the Referendum as a farce from start to finish.

crikey.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:09 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote:Just to add a rumour from David Maddox at the Scotsman:

David Maddox@DavidPBMaddox

Early briefings: Edinburgh West 4/1 No Dundee apparently 55 Yes also reports of strong No vote Edinburgh East #indyts #indyref
Do you have any more info on that Dundee "result"?

No - it's just a tweet from Maddox. However, he added:

If it is really 55% Yes in Dundee that wouldn't be a big enough win in one of their strongest areas

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:10 pm

PF - you've done a sterling job.
am on the look out for winseyette radio.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:10 pm

HindleA wrote:Apparently Farage describing the Referendum as a farce from start to finish.

Is that because he's been mostly ignored for the past few weeks?

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:12 pm

David Maddox@DavidPBMaddox

North Lanarkshire Clackmannanshire and Glasgow postal votes more than 60% No #indyref #indyts

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:13 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote:

Thanks.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:14 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote:Just to add a rumour from David Maddox at the Scotsman:

Do you have any more info on that Dundee "result"?
No - it's just a tweet from Maddox. However, he added:

If it is really 55% Yes in Dundee that wouldn't be a big enough win in one of their strongest areas

They can't know this, at best they are getting sample guesses from a few wards. Those guesses would be biased by wishful thinking. When there is nothing to report they make stuff up.

Postal votes are real, but equally a potentially skewed sample (for example all the old people).

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:17 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
HindleA wrote:Apparently Farage describing the Referendum as a farce from start to finish.
crikey.

Good old Nigel, always wrong.

The one thing this has not been is a farce. It has been a well run referendum on a hugely emotive issue.

The Scottish electoral people are top drawer.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:19 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote: Do you have any more info on that Dundee "result"?
No - it's just a tweet from Maddox. However, he added:

If it is really 55% Yes in Dundee that wouldn't be a big enough win in one of their strongest areas
They can't know this, at best they are getting sample guesses from a few wards. Those guesses would be biased by wishful thinking. When there is nothing to report they make stuff up.

Postal votes are real, but equally a potentially skewed sample (for example all the old people).

True - David Maddox is political reporter for the Scotsman and has been pro-union throughout the campaign. There's no indication as to where he's getting his figures.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:20 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
HindleA wrote:Apparently Farage describing the Referendum as a farce from start to finish.
crikey.
Good old Nigel, always wrong.

The one thing this has not been is a farce. It has been a well run referendum on a hugely emotive issue.

The Scottish electoral people are top drawer.

And of course the epitome of farce [by which i mean farage - not the Scottish electoral people!]. Whichever way Scotland goes, we have to sort ourselves out.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:24 pm

No way am I staying up for this. It's interesting but I only had 3 1/2 hours sleep last night so I am now knackered.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:24 pm

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102014318 "no vote could lead to unpleasant scenes" whereas of course yes vote would lead to utopian dream. As any sane person predicted - the quest for division has ended with division, whichever way the coin falls.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:27 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.cnbc.com/id/102014318 "no vote could lead to unpleasant scenes" whereas of course yes vote would lead to utopian dream. As any sane person predicted - the quest for division has ended with division, whichever way the coin falls.

I think they will get over it.

Tomorrow there is beer to be consumed, or hangovers to be slept off.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:27 pm

First (?) dramatic moments of tonight's count:

Will the plane ferrying ballot boxes around the Western Isles be able to land at Stornoway – or anywhere else, for that matter? Fog may or may not clear...

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:32 pm

I liked this - reported in the G.

https://twitter.com/finansakrobat/statu ... 56/photo/1

As somebody else tweeted - The Scots are giving it 110 percent.

Football managers everywhere rejoice.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:36 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... government

definite hats off to Scotland for this kind of development.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:37 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:First (?) dramatic moments of tonight's count:

Will the plane ferrying ballot boxes around the Western Isles be able to land at Stornoway – or anywhere else, for that matter? Fog may or may not clear...

Hopefully they have got enough fuel for a diversion. A bit tricky to get FIDO working at this short notice.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_Inve ... _Operation

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:38 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:First (?) dramatic moments of tonight's count:

Will the plane ferrying ballot boxes around the Western Isles be able to land at Stornoway – or anywhere else, for that matter? Fog may or may not clear...

Ballot boxes in the Western Isles
Posted at 23:34
The plane has landed in Benbecula. If the skies stay clear, the boxes should be collected from Uist and Barra and loaded aboard by midnight - ballots should arrive in Stornoway by 00.30.
If the fog closes in again, Plan B is to take them across the Sound of Harris by fishing boat.
If the plane can fly, the count will be done by 02:30. If not, the count would be done by 05:00 or 06:00.

So it's survived the Benbecula Triangle

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:40 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:First (?) dramatic moments of tonight's count:

Will the plane ferrying ballot boxes around the Western Isles be able to land at Stornoway – or anywhere else, for that matter? Fog may or may not clear...

Ballot boxes in the Western Isles
Posted at 23:34
The plane has landed in Benbecula. If the skies stay clear, the boxes should be collected from Uist and Barra and loaded aboard by midnight - ballots should arrive in Stornoway by 00.30.
If the fog closes in again, Plan B is to take them across the Sound of Harris by fishing boat.
If the plane can fly, the count will be done by 02:30. If not, the count would be done by 05:00 or 06:00.
So it's survived the Benbecula Triangle

He was always such a nice young man that Barry Manilow.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:40 pm

The biggest question of tonight is will Andrew Neil let anyone finish a sentence.

Oh look he's not interrupting Redwood at all...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:41 pm

John Redwood v Diane Abbott on the Beeb right now - gripping stuff (not)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:41 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:First (?) dramatic moments of tonight's count:

Will the plane ferrying ballot boxes around the Western Isles be able to land at Stornoway – or anywhere else, for that matter? Fog may or may not clear...

Ballot boxes in the Western Isles
Posted at 23:34
The plane has landed in Benbecula. If the skies stay clear, the boxes should be collected from Uist and Barra and loaded aboard by midnight - ballots should arrive in Stornoway by 00.30.
If the fog closes in again, Plan B is to take them across the Sound of Harris by fishing boat.
If the plane can fly, the count will be done by 02:30. If not, the count would be done by 05:00 or 06:00.
So it's survived the Benbecula Triangle

Tenuous link ,my dad used to go to Benbecula (RAF)

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:44 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... government

definite hats off to Scotland for this kind of development.

Except the guy making it is a tosser. Most people really aren't that bothered by the West Lothian question.

You can't restrict voting rights of Scottish MPs, it would produce a farce of a government. The Tory's want it because that will make them the party of government.

A better approach is to devolve budgets and powers to the regions, including tax raising powers. That would be a sensible approach and would solve the problem to an extent. Of course the rUK already has a formula for sorting out need, the Tories just re-wrote it.

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:50 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:John Redwood v Diane Abbott on the Beeb right now - gripping stuff (not)

Who deemed her the spokesperson for all things regarding Labour?

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:52 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:John Redwood v Diane Abbott on the Beeb right now - gripping stuff (not)
Who deemed her the spokesperson for all things regarding Labour?

She did.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:52 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:John Redwood v Diane Abbott on the Beeb right now - gripping stuff (not)
Who deemed her the spokesperson for all things regarding Labour?

I have no idea, Miliband needs to get a grip and replace her with somebody competent.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:52 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... government

definite hats off to Scotland for this kind of development.

and this

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... e20680667/

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 11:59 pm

One for PorFavor, just as she gone to bed.

http://politicalscrapbook.net/2014/09/m ... -bad-news/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 19 Sep, 2014 12:00 am

Jim Murphy thanking Emily Pankhurst for expected No win on Radio 4.

Spacedone · Post by **Spacedone** » Fri 19 Sep, 2014 12:03 am

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... government

definite hats off to Scotland for this kind of development.
Except the guy making it is a tosser. Most people really aren't that bothered by the West Lothian question.

You can't restrict voting rights of Scottish MPs, it would produce a farce of a government. The Tory's want it because that will make them the party of government.

A better approach is to devolve budgets and powers to the regions, including tax raising powers. That would be a sensible approach and would solve the problem to an extent. Of course the rUK already has a formula for sorting out need, the Tories just re-wrote it.

I agree. If we go down the route of federalism then it has to be completely devolved to regional level and not (as Redwood wants) national Parliaments. National Parliaments might work for Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland because of the population sizes but the population of England is much larger and it makes more sense to devolve to regions otherwise we just keep the current situation where large parts of the country have little power to improve the local economy, certainly far less than Scotland already has.

It's obvious why Redwood wants an English Parliament though. He thinks that would result in a Tory government.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 19 Sep, 2014 12:06 am

Spacedone wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... government

definite hats off to Scotland for this kind of development.
Except the guy making it is a tosser. Most people really aren't that bothered by the West Lothian question.

You can't restrict voting rights of Scottish MPs, it would produce a farce of a government. The Tory's want it because that will make them the party of government.

A better approach is to devolve budgets and powers to the regions, including tax raising powers. That would be a sensible approach and would solve the problem to an extent. Of course the rUK already has a formula for sorting out need, the Tories just re-wrote it.
I agree. If we go down the route of federalism then it has to be completely devolved to regional level and not (as Redwood wants) national Parliaments. National Parliaments might work for Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland because of the population sizes but the population of England is much larger and it makes more sense to devolve to regions otherwise we just keep the current situation where large parts of the country have little power to improve the local economy, certainly far less than Scotland already has.

It's obvious why Redwood wants an English Parliament though. He thinks that would result in a Tory government.

Totally agree. And admit to posting apparent federalism link with scant regard for actual content in some kind of Crucible-type federalist fervour.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 19 Sep, 2014 12:10 am

Turnout in Orkney Islands: 14.907 which is 83.7%

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 19 Sep, 2014 12:11 am

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:John Redwood v Diane Abbott on the Beeb right now - gripping stuff (not)
Who deemed her the spokesperson for all things regarding Labour?
I have no idea, Miliband needs to get a grip and replace her with somebody competent.

Does he have any say? She is somebody who the Beeb loves to go to for the "Labour view" - for reasons best known to themselves.