Thursday 18th September 2014

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 5:17 pm

PorFavor wrote:
HindleA wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote: You'll know after 10:00 when the polls close and you can count it and declare the result.

Hope there isn't a recount.

Ha!

I am guessing the Lib Dems lost their deposit.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 5:20 pm

HindleA wrote:Frustrated by not having a vote on an election day,I made a box and pretended to.I don't know which way I voted because it was a secret ballot.

So when does the vote get counted?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 5:24 pm

seeingclearly wrote:Sickness benefit claims reach a two year high. Apologies if this has been posted before. It's an interesting read.

http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2014/09 ... nteresting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; read.

Link not quite working:

http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 5:30 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
HindleA wrote:Frustrated by not having a vote on an election day,I made a box and pretended to.I don't know which way I voted because it was a secret ballot.
So when does the vote get counted?

You're all as silly as me.

Declaration due at 22.01.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 5:43 pm

HindleA wrote:Frustrated by not having a vote on an election day,I made a box and pretended to.I don't know which way I voted because it was a secret ballot.

Thank you Hindle A. Post of the day and very funny

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 5:46 pm

Why no play list for tonight ?

My husband's just had his Cyrus CD player back from being serviced and a new laser installed.
Cyrus say switch it on and leave it on for three days, 'with music playing continously' !

So it's party time here for three days, stacks of CDs at the ready.
Doors 'The End' on at the moment, not sure if that's a prediction.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 5:48 pm

HindleA wrote:Frustrated by not having a vote on an election day,I made a box and pretended to.I don't know which way I voted because it was a secret ballot.

Thanks for today's first real helpless giggles moment

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 5:49 pm

Sad little snippet from the Guardian liveblog(well,it seems sad to me)an old soldier said he is voting yes because it is his patriotic duty but is hoping for a no.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 5:55 pm

I'll be so glad once the referendum is over. After about two months of one group spamming another group i visit daily the Yes campaigners finally got my goat day before yesterday, even though I have a lot of sympathy for people who want and independent Scotland (why wouldn't they). The issue was one of the site in question not showing solidarity with the yessers, even though the work of neither site is specific to any kind of nationalism. I thought they had the right to remain neutral and duly put on my cyber sword, and defended the right of any group not to define the opinion of its individual members by taking a stance on a very partisan issue, that they in particular did not get a say (referendum vote) in. The fallout was great, even though I wished them well. I hope this level of feeling does not spill over into real life. It was odd to see hours later that all the ugly accusations had been edited out, and only oppositional ones left. This was between two groups I have the greatest of respect for. Demanding support is never on, and I'll defend the right to silence as much as the right to free speech. The spam disappeared yesterday, instead there were more conciliatory posts. I hope the aftermath of the referendum is the same, and that there is a renewed focus on the very real problems many people are facing in their daily lives.

In the meantime I think the point I'm trying to make is that the Yes campaign is no more synonymous with the cause for Scottish independence than the Better Together campaign is with retaining the union. There will be many thousands voting either way who are not impressed or invested in either. I've mainly stayed out of all arguments on it. I just got sick of seeing good hardworking activists and campaigners being labelled as in cahoots with the perpetrators of a lot of our national misery, when clearly they aren't. That the accusations were even made turned me off the Yes campaign a while ago, and I've been wary of the aftermath in the event of a no decision ever since. And I'm wary of a yes too. It feels like a lot is in the balance.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 6:13 pm

yahyah wrote:
HindleA wrote:Frustrated by not having a vote on an election day,I made a box and pretended to.I don't know which way I voted because it was a secret ballot.

Thank you Hindle A. Post of the day and very funny

I don't have a hat but if I did I'd be throwing it in the air in anticipation of your result.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 6:25 pm

seeingclearly wrote:
yahyah wrote:
HindleA wrote:Frustrated by not having a vote on an election day,I made a box and pretended to.I don't know which way I voted because it was a secret ballot.

Thank you Hindle A. Post of the day and very funny

I don't have a hat but if I did I'd be throwing it in the air in anticipation of your result.

Have you considered that the result may be won by a write in option?

What does a 100% maybe vote mean?

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 7:00 pm

So who's up for the declarations? Who's up early to check? Anyone staying up till 5am and the results from the big cities?

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 7:01 pm

Ladies:
You are now able to join the Royal & Ancient golf club at St Andrews. Please form an orderly queue, cheque books at the ready.

Rebecca · Post by **Rebecca** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 7:02 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:Ladies:
You are now able to join the Royal & Ancient golf club at St Andrews. Please form an orderly queue, cheque books at the ready.

Yay!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 7:04 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:So who's up for the declarations? Who's up early to check? Anyone staying up till 5am and the results from the big cities?

I plan to stay up.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 7:05 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:
yahyah wrote:
Thank you Hindle A. Post of the day and very funny

I don't have a hat but if I did I'd be throwing it in the air in anticipation of your result.
Have you considered that the result may be won by a write in option?

What does a 100% maybe vote mean?

There may be a fatal flaw in my plan

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 7:15 pm

HindleA wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:

I don't have a hat but if I did I'd be throwing it in the air in anticipation of your result.
Have you considered that the result may be won by a write in option?

What does a 100% maybe vote mean?

There may be a fatal flaw in my plan

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 7:43 pm

In other news the skaters in the Undercroft at the South Bank have won their battle against the developers who were trying to get them evicted. I'm guessing Billy Bragg will not be along to compose a victory ballad for this triumph for local democracy over big business.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... mains-open" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 7:51 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:So who's up for the declarations? Who's up early to check? Anyone staying up till 5am and the results from the big cities?

Me, more than likely.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 7:54 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:In other news the skaters in the Undercroft at the South Bank have won their battle against the developers who were trying to get them evicted. I'm guessing Billy Bragg will not be along to compose a victory ballad for this triumph for local democracy over big business.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... mains-open" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Excellent, excellent, excellent news! I started taking my son there when he was a nipper – more than thirty years ago. He learnt so much from the older skaters, including etiquette, which he then passed on in his turn. He will be delighted and relieved to hear this.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 8:19 pm

I think this has the European problem neatly encapsulated.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... urope.html

If Scotland leaves the EU will screw them for two reasons:

1. It will put a lid on a dozen uppity European separatist provinces.
2. It will make the consequences of leaving crystal clear on the UK electorate.

Expect trade barriers to spring up ASAP.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 8:25 pm

Spammers having fun on here again, I see......

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 8:34 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Spammers having fun on here again, I see......

Bizarre isn't it.

I miss the Russian escorts

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 8:49 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Spammers having fun on here again, I see......
Bizarre isn't it.

I miss the Russian escorts

Hi TE, I'm going to have a root round the admin control panel to see if we can ban IP addresses. I'll wager that all our 'new members' share the same IP. We'll try to put a permanent stop to it.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 8:50 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Spammers having fun on here again, I see......
Bizarre isn't it.

I miss the Russian escorts

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 8:55 pm

Scottish independence referendum: with no exit polls isn’t there a democratic deficit?

The absence of an exit poll means we’ll be robbed of a post-vote analysis of how this momentous referendum was decided

Follow our live blog as voters turn out for Scotland’s historic referendum (Guardian)

Oh. I didn't realise that there were absolutely no exit polls for the Referendum when I set up my lament earlier today. I agree with the article.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ic-deficit

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 8:58 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Spammers having fun on here again, I see......
Bizarre isn't it.

I miss the Russian escorts

Well, I spend most of my time wondering where my next $ is going to come from.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:01 pm

http://order-order.com/2014/09/18/anoth ... xcellence/

This is a good 'un

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:05 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Scottish independence referendum: with no exit polls isn’t there a democratic deficit?

The absence of an exit poll means we’ll be robbed of a post-vote analysis of how this momentous referendum was decided

Follow our live blog as voters turn out for Scotland’s historic referendum (Guardian)

Oh. I didn't realise that there were absolutely no exit polls for the Referendum when I set up my lament earlier today. I agree with the article.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ic-deficit

The polling companies are too scared of getting it wrong, in truth - referendums are different beasts from GE's.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:10 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Scottish independence referendum: with no exit polls isn’t there a democratic deficit?

The absence of an exit poll means we’ll be robbed of a post-vote analysis of how this momentous referendum was decided

Follow our live blog as voters turn out for Scotland’s historic referendum (Guardian)

Oh. I didn't realise that there were absolutely no exit polls for the Referendum when I set up my lament earlier today. I agree with the article.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ic-deficit
The polling companies are too scared of getting it wrong, in truth - referendums are different beasts from GE's.

Yes - I saw an interview, yesterday, with a chap from YouGov who more or less confirmed how nervous the pollsters are.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:13 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:I think this has the European problem neatly encapsulated.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... urope.html

If Scotland leaves the EU will screw them for two reasons:

1. It will put a lid on a dozen uppity European separatist provinces.
2. It will make the consequences of leaving crystal clear on the UK electorate.

Expect trade barriers to spring up ASAP.

A very interesting and sobering article. That is EU realpolitik in a nutshell. The article has the raw feel of authenticity and power politics about it. I strongly suspect that a yes supporter reading and understanding that might take a more sceptical view of Salmond's claims to the contrary.

Simply put, it is not in the interests of either the EU nor some individual member states to give a thumbs up to Scotland's accession to the EU in a hurry, or even at all in some cases. And if independence does come about, Scots will have to face up to some very hard facts indeed. The EU has been a friend to Scotland - I have seen Scottish roads that are built with EU money, for example - and all of that would come to a screaming halt. Why should the EU do iScotland favours when it thereby disadvantages itself. Why, for that matter, would rUK?

As I say, realpolitik. It's not pretty or joyous, but this isn't like watching Shrek; this is what the world is like.

Last night (and before ad nauseum, I know) I rattled on about the lack of detail and the lack of a credible and executable plan from the separatists over matters like economics. The EU is another example where the Scottish electorate are being asked to believe that noble intentions and a boundless felicity from neighbour states will smooth a passage to a prosperous future. The world's demonstrably not like that and I shudder at the prospect of iScotland trying to prosper as various economic and political chickens come home to lay some fucking huge cuckoo eggs in the separatist nest.

I just hope that yes advocates would not, at that juncture, tell us it's a massive establishment conspiracy to do down Scotland.

The bottom line really is, if Scotland becomes iScotland, they will be very much on their own.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:20 pm

Hi there.
Lost time and lost details so now here in second manifestation. But up for - as long or as frequently as possible - interaction during the course of the next traumatic hours.

TC

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:37 pm

Hi TC, lovely to see you.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:54 pm

And yourself Mr Remarx
have been following ftn for the last couple of days - gearing self up for tonight

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:01 pm

Hi TC

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:04 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:And yourself Mr Remarx
have been following ftn for the last couple of days - gearing self up for tonight

Many thanks clangs - it's going to be an interesting night, but for reasons I posted above, I foresee very choppy waters ahead if the Scots decide they're better off on their tod.

It's too close to call, so I won't even bother. I'll stay up till late on I suspect and keep checking back here, but the next bit will be the extended post mortem and our brave new world, either way. I suspect that tomorrow will see the start of calls throughout the rest of the UK for federalism in one form or another.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:09 pm

Well, polls are now closed. I wonder if there are any left-over voters. They were supposed to permitted to cast a vote if they were stuck in a queue.

@tinyclanger2

Hello, there. Glad your loins are girded. Or something. I may well be off to bed shortly. Bit stupid to wait up just until the polls closed - but I somehow felt that I had to if I possibly could. I hope the transistor radio behaves. Some hope, though . . . .

Anyway, I'll try to hang on a bit longer but I'm fading fast.

I think BBC TV Parliament channel has its own coverage of the results - that might be an option if Jeremy Vine and all get too much for any of you.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:10 pm

From the BBC website:

YouGov have announced they will release the results of their on-the-day poll at 2230 hrs.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:15 pm

If it is yes, I can't imaging Lilibet will be best pleased. That will be the first awkward phone call of the morning for Dave.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:17 pm

because I'm not at all geeky I have a voting tool to help me manage my anxiety. attached. pre-emptive apologies if it messes up the width of the messages.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:18 pm

Talking about over 90% turnout on Radio 4.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:20 pm

Ok sorry xl sheet not allowed
will attempt to report in instead.
said tool includes proportion of population, expected proportion of yes/no vote and time anticipated to declare
am unashamedly no (and behind that is the reason for the long absence) - just to prepare expectations.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:21 pm

PF - am delighted to see that your editing skills have remained so strong.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:22 pm

me nerves ....

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:23 pm

Temulkar wrote:If it is yes, I can't imaging Lilibet will be best pleased. That will be the first awkward phone call of the morning for Dave.

The second will be from the Palace to Nick Clegg (as President of the Privy Council) telling him to let Salmond know that his services are no longer required.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:23 pm

Good evening all.

Eric has just beaten me to the on-the-day poll imminence (Is that a real word? must be, I've just used it.)

I don't know - I go away for a long long stint of pulling myself through hedges backwards, sideways and forwards ... and come back to find FTN has had its own Scottish fervour and division going on.

I hope FTN gets back its equilibrium - or a healthy ability to lose it and bounce back. But I worry that it is going to take a lot more to sort out the messier and much bigger aftermath of Scotland's choice.

We don't have a leader at the UK helm who is capable of understanding what is required, when - or has the skills to steer a safe way through the choppy waters Ernst talks of. If it's YES Cameron will try to cling on ... but I think his days will be numbered. If it's NO - I dread to think what a mess he will make of the Devo Max pledge.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:25 pm

HindleA - good to have the company. My brain is a battleground of excitement and dread.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:27 pm

Paul Mason ‏@paulmasonnews 6m
Meanwhile Yes organisers deffo not ecstatic; 83% turnout at one Gorbals poll stn by 8pm -but they accept big turnout boosts No also

Think I'll have to keep checking his tweets. He should keep it savvy and sane.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:29 pm

BBC:

The word from the returning officer at the East Lothian count is that 65,339 votes have been cast from a registered 81,947, giving a turnout figure of 79.7% for the local authority.

That's been amended to say that it doesn't include postal votes.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 18 Sep, 2014 10:29 pm

@Temulkar

I haven't heard her referred to as "Lilibet" for yonks. I enjoyed reading it again.

@rebeccariots2

Yes, DevoDave doesn't bear thinking about. He'll manage to insult everyone, no doubt.

@tinyclanger2

Ha! Yes, still editing away!