Wednesday 19th August 2015

Post by **refitman** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 7:10 am

Morning all.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 8:21 am

Morfters all

"Playing politics: Tories have botched the Northern Powerhouse scheme." So reads the title of the Independent's editiorial, which goes on to point out three of the failures, so far: 1) postponement of electrification on the Manchester/Leeds line, 2) the "Ordsall Chord" (cross-Manchester link) not going ahead next month due to a legal challenge, and 3) oh dear, look, Atos (for it is them!) is incapable of fulfilling its contract to provide Manchester's "Oystercard-style" ticketing system so the contract has been terminated...
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/edi ... 61197.html

I wonder will there come a point (possibly after promised budgets for other parts of the 'Powerhouse'/Greater Manchester Authority plan get 'regretfully' cut by the Chancellor) that the Councils' leaders (and unelected Mayor) get back together, decide that it's not not really worth the biscuits, and say forget it George?

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 8:27 am

In better news...

The Islamic Climate Declaration says that the world's 1.6bn Muslims have a religious duty to fight climate change.
It urges politicians to agree a new treaty to limit global warming to 2C, "or preferably 1.5 degrees."
The Declaration asks Muslims, in the words of the Koran, "not to strut arrogantly on the Earth".
Drafted at an international symposium in Istanbul, the Declaration calls for "all people, leaders and businesses ...to commit to 100% renewable energy".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-33972240

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 8:44 am

Morning.

Just want to echo the good wishes sent to Show, Ephie, Adrian and his partner and OhSo & Mr OhSo.
& lovely to see AAW pop in last night.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 8:54 am

Peter Jukes ‏@peterjukes 11h11 hours ago
Again it has to be said. The press shot its bolt with the 'Red Ed' hyperbole.
So Corbyn is immunised in advance from their spleen

Peter Jukes ‏@peterjukes 10h10 hours ago
Whatever you think of Labour election, every New Labour expert in Fleet St will be out of a job come September: no traction left

Let's hope Peter Jukes is right.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 9:09 am

Bugger.

No beds. Have to phone in an hour or so.

Thanks to all for the good wishes - I hope they're not premature.

Refitman - did you get my PM and what do you think?

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 9:14 am

ephemerid wrote:Bugger.

No beds. Have to phone in an hour or so.

Thanks to all for the good wishes - I hope they're not premature.

Refitman - did you get my PM and what do you think?

Oh no! Fingers firmly crossed...

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 9:17 am

Has anyone had the Labour List survey about releasing the voting figures after the election?

Apparently Labour has decided not to publish the breakdown of the vote. Credit to Liz Kendall, who has asked for this to be looked into.

It would be interesting to know - whoever wins - which groups (long-term members, affiliates, new members, registered supporters) voted for whom. If the result is very close, it would be nice to know which group swayed the vote a particular way.
If Corbyn wins, and it turns out that his support came mainly from people who are not full members, it would give some ammunition to those who are saying that he might win due to entryism - and of course it would show if the opposite was true too.

I actually think, as a fully paid-up member (albeit less than 2 years) I'd like to see those results.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 9:22 am

LadyCentauria wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Bugger.

No beds. Have to phone in an hour or so.

Thanks to all for the good wishes - I hope they're not premature.

Refitman - did you get my PM and what do you think?
Oh no! Fingers firmly crossed...

Thanks LadyC.

This is always a risk with the NHS. If Show can't get a bed now, it means someone is so poorly they can't go home or someone had some awful emergency like an aortic aneurysm - so you won't hear us complaining.

It's just a bit irritating when you have the lifts organised etc.

Obviously, this is nothing compared with what Mr/Ms.HindleA are going through.
If you're reading this, A, I hope you both got some rest last night.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 9:24 am

ephemerid wrote:Bugger.

No beds. Have to phone in an hour or so.

Thanks to all for the good wishes - I hope they're not premature.

Refitman - did you get my PM and what do you think?

I did, but only saw it at half 7 this morning. Will reply tonight. Keep on posting.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 9:30 am

ephemerid wrote:Has anyone had the Labour List survey about releasing the voting figures after the election?

Apparently Labour has decided not to publish the breakdown of the vote. Credit to Liz Kendall, who has asked for this to be looked into.

It would be interesting to know - whoever wins - which groups (long-term members, affiliates, new members, registered supporters) voted for whom. If the result is very close, it would be nice to know which group swayed the vote a particular way.
If Corbyn wins, and it turns out that his support came mainly from people who are not full members, it would give some ammunition to those who are saying that he might win due to entryism - and of course it would show if the opposite was true too.

I actually think, as a fully paid-up member (albeit less than 2 years) I'd like to see those results.

I'm certainly not in favour of the leadership coming up for review\renewal, annually. Think of what a distraction it would be in the year running up to a General Election. The press would focus on nothing else. Unless that year could be made a "fallow" year.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 9:31 am

Good morfternoon.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 9:36 am

Morning. Currently rained off work. Definitely no lawn mowing today.

Now.

David Hencke @davidhencke
Extraordinary story in Guardian of ex CSA chair Butler Sloss giving reference to now convicted paedophile http://bit.ly/1fozpYZ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; #csainquiry

David Hencke retweeted
Stanley North ‏@northstand1901 27m27 minutes ago
Stanley North retweeted David Hencke
Great Judge of character...@davidhencke scary

I'm glad others are noticing this.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 9:36 am

PorFavor wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Has anyone had the Labour List survey about releasing the voting figures after the election?

Apparently Labour has decided not to publish the breakdown of the vote. Credit to Liz Kendall, who has asked for this to be looked into.

It would be interesting to know - whoever wins - which groups (long-term members, affiliates, new members, registered supporters) voted for whom. If the result is very close, it would be nice to know which group swayed the vote a particular way.
If Corbyn wins, and it turns out that his support came mainly from people who are not full members, it would give some ammunition to those who are saying that he might win due to entryism - and of course it would show if the opposite was true too.

I actually think, as a fully paid-up member (albeit less than 2 years) I'd like to see those results.
I'm certainly not in favour of the leadership coming up for review\renewal, annually. Think of what a distraction it would be in the year running up to a General Election. The press would focus on nothing else. Unless that year could be made a "fallow" year.

I agree it could cause problems but surely a job review sort of thing by members could only be helpful ?

Also, maybe I am looking for confirmation bias now after casting my vote but Monbiot's piece has bits that resonate.

''To imagine that Labour could overcome such odds by becoming bland, blurred and craven is to succumb to thinking that is simultaneously magical and despairing.
Such dreamers argue that Labour has to recapture the middle ground.
But there is no such place; no fixed political geography. The middle ground is a magic mountain that retreats as you approach. The more you chase it from the left, the further to the right it moves.''
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ible-dream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 9:40 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning. Currently rained off work. Definitely no lawn mowing today.

Now.

David Hencke @davidhencke
Extraordinary story in Guardian of ex CSA chair Butler Sloss giving reference to now convicted paedophile http://bit.ly/1fozpYZ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; #csainquiry

David Hencke retweeted
Stanley North ‏@northstand1901 27m27 minutes ago
Stanley North retweeted David Hencke
Great Judge of character...@davidhencke scary
I'm glad others are noticing this.

Read this...all rather odd if true.
The blog alleges it was contacted by 'this victim of Philip Chard'. Not sure which alleged victim that means.
https://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/201 ... rting-him/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can see why conspiracy theories proliferate with fuel like this.
That's why the Goddard Inquiry must be, and seen to be, transparent.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 9:46 am

yahyah wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Has anyone had the Labour List survey about releasing the voting figures after the election?

Apparently Labour has decided not to publish the breakdown of the vote. Credit to Liz Kendall, who has asked for this to be looked into.

It would be interesting to know - whoever wins - which groups (long-term members, affiliates, new members, registered supporters) voted for whom. If the result is very close, it would be nice to know which group swayed the vote a particular way.
If Corbyn wins, and it turns out that his support came mainly from people who are not full members, it would give some ammunition to those who are saying that he might win due to entryism - and of course it would show if the opposite was true too.

I actually think, as a fully paid-up member (albeit less than 2 years) I'd like to see those results.

I'm certainly not in favour of the leadership coming up for review\renewal, annually. Think of what a distraction it would be in the year running up to a General Election. The press would focus on nothing else. Unless that year could be made a "fallow" year.
I agree it could cause problems but surely a job review sort of thing by members could only be helpful ?

Also, maybe I am looking for confirmation bias now after casting my vote but Monbiot's piece has bits that resonate.

''To imagine that Labour could overcome such odds by becoming bland, blurred and craven is to succumb to thinking that is simultaneously magical and despairing.
Such dreamers argue that Labour has to recapture the middle ground.
But there is no such place; no fixed political geography. The middle ground is a magic mountain that retreats as you approach. The more you chase it from the left, the further to the right it moves.''
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ible-dream" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes - I said here the other day that the "middle ground" keeps moving further to the right - and that what's now considered the "left" (as of popular folklore) really isn't anything of the sort.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 9:50 am

yahyah wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning. Currently rained off work. Definitely no lawn mowing today.

Now.

David Hencke @davidhencke
Extraordinary story in Guardian of ex CSA chair Butler Sloss giving reference to now convicted paedophile http://bit.ly/1fozpYZ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; #csainquiry

David Hencke retweeted
Stanley North ‏@northstand1901 27m27 minutes ago
Stanley North retweeted David Hencke
Great Judge of character...@davidhencke scary
I'm glad others are noticing this.
Read this...all rather odd if true.
The blog alleges it was contacted by 'this victim of Philip Chard'. Not sure which alleged victim that means.
https://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/201 ... rting-him/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can see why conspiracy theories proliferate. There's even a daft one based around the fact that she looks so much like Jimmy Savile !

Read it. Words fail if it's true. Even if it's not ... how on earth would Butler Sloss have been considered an impartial and unconflicted chair of the CSA enquiry? How on earth could she even have imagined she might be?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 9:50 am

That's part of why I voted Corbyn. I want someone who will point that out.

Why is it we can have a right wing government that is selling off all and sundry and we get fed the notion that Cameron is middle ground ?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 9:50 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning. Currently rained off work. Definitely no lawn mowing today.

Hello. Although the sun is shining here, there's a definite autumnal quality to the weather. Were those few days "it"?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:05 am

yahyah wrote:That's part of why I voted Corbyn. I want someone who will point that out.

Why is it we can have a right wing government that is selling off all and sundry and we get fed the notion that Cameron is middle ground ?

There's a lot that resonates in the Monbiot piece. The Newsnight visit to Nuneaton last night (it had to be Nuneaton, eh ..) to see if voters thought Corbyn would make them more likely to vote for Labour was a depressing and thin item. I say that because the bloke in the ukelele class they asked (yes, ukelele class) parroted off the exact same stuff we've heard all the commentators wheeled out by the MSM spout about Corbyn (back to the 80s, reds under the bed, unions striking all over the place) ... it was like a learning by rote test - and he passed with flying colours. He clearly wasn't going to be more likely to vote Labour. The other person they asked who wasn't going to be swayed - had voted Tory in 2015 - was someone I would consider a natural Tory voter rather than a swing voter anyway - young woman in a racing car. There was a young person who very clearly said he would vote Labour if Corbyn was leader - and another person who said they might be swayed by it.

Why can't Newsnight actually discuss and explore what this supposed 'centre ground' is now ... and what it was back in the era of Kinnock and then Blair? And what is left wing ... was the labelling of red Ed accurate .... and so on. We don't seem to get any discourse like that. I would have thought the relative emptiness of political business in summer would give them the opportunity for a few longer segments that would allow for it.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:07 am

Morning.

I see Greenwood Dale academy trust are advertising for a new CEO.

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/jobs/career/28 ... Nottingham" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The new CEO, reporting directly to the Trust Board, will lead the delivery of the Trust’s strategic priorities, placing pupils at the centre of everything we do.

With proven leadership and management experience, the successful candidate will need strong strategic, political and media credentials, underpinned by effective networks and an ability to influence stakeholders and partners.

If you are a strong advocate for our mission statement and strategic priorities and you have a proven track record of leadership in a complex education based organisation, then we would be pleased to hear from you.

Now, if you had to pick one, what would you say that sounded more like - teacher or bureaucrat?

Answers on a postcard to D.Cameron, 10 Downing Street, London...

But of course, "bureaucracy is always a bad thing" according to that well-known defender of academies, Ms Birbalsingh...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:09 am

People are sharing fake testimonials after the DWP admitted it made up quotes
http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/p ... bJaFsnvnEe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:12 am

Did you watch the last episode of the Chinese school in UK experiment Roger? And was Birbalsingh active on Twitter again?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:17 am

SNP is destroying our education system
http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/le ... -1-3862160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:18 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Did you watch the last episode of the Chinese school in UK experiment Roger? And was Birbalsingh active on Twitter again?

No I didn't bother watching after the first one - it's something maybe someone should do over a longer period of time but without the intrusion of a TV camera there.

There was a marvellous comment BTL to the excellent Janet Downs piece about cameron wanting an all-academy structure despite the evidence not being there.

http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2 ... tion-bill/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Francis Gilbert said the same on C4 News last night. It was notable that much of what he said appeared to come as something previously entirely unconsidered by Katharine Birbalsingh. She didn’t appear to be entirely intellectually equipped for justifying the academy programme she supports so vocally.

Well quite.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:19 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning.

I see Greenwood Dale academy trust are advertising for a new CEO.

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/jobs/career/28 ... Nottingham" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The new CEO, reporting directly to the Trust Board, will lead the delivery of the Trust’s strategic priorities, placing pupils at the centre of everything we do.

With proven leadership and management experience, the successful candidate will need strong strategic, political and media credentials, underpinned by effective networks and an ability to influence stakeholders and partners.

If you are a strong advocate for our mission statement and strategic priorities and you have a proven track record of leadership in a complex education based organisation, then we would be pleased to hear from you.
Now, if you had to pick one, what would you say that sounded more like - teacher or bureaucrat?

Answers on a postcard to D.Cameron, 10 Downing Street, London...

But of course, "bureaucracy is always a bad thing" according to that well-known defender of academies, Ms Birbalsingh...

I watched that C4 News piece you linked to. The look on her face when it was pointed out that you need bureaucracy to ensure the well-being of the pupils was fantastic.

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:31 am

ephemerid wrote:Has anyone had the Labour List survey about releasing the voting figures after the election?

Apparently Labour has decided not to publish the breakdown of the vote. Credit to Liz Kendall, who has asked for this to be looked into.

It would be interesting to know - whoever wins - which groups (long-term members, affiliates, new members, registered supporters) voted for whom. If the result is very close, it would be nice to know which group swayed the vote a particular way.
If Corbyn wins, and it turns out that his support came mainly from people who are not full members, it would give some ammunition to those who are saying that he might win due to entryism - and of course it would show if the opposite was true too.

I actually think, as a fully paid-up member (albeit less than 2 years) I'd like to see those results.

The problem is that the information won't be held by Labour, but by the Electoral Reform Society, who are managing the vote. Labour are only vetting / vetoing the people who get voting numbers, not the individuals themselves.

I filled my form in with a two part security code. I have the expectation that the information provided is not traceable back to my name, email address or Ashley Madison account details.

I could be a Tory Councillor who slipped through the net, an entryist Marxist or even Tony Blair as far as that number goes, and no amount of chicanery will tell anyone any different.

All that you can do is publish an exit poll on the day of the results, which might reveal more about the individual voteers should they choose to give that information.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:34 am

refitman wrote: I watched that C4 News piece you linked to. The look on her face when it was pointed out that you need bureaucracy to ensure the well-being of the pupils was fantastic.

You start to see why she was being propped up by some very high-powered people in the edu world when the schools opened - even now they have two advisers that 99% of all start-ups wouldn't get anywhere near the same kind of support.

http://mcsbrent.co.uk/governors/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:36 am

Civil Service World
‏@CSWnews
Ex No 10 staffers on life in the thick of it. Feat. @MichaelBarber9, @DanRCorry & @jamesosh: http://tinyurl.com/pjl89s3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:40 am

Refitman - thank you. I will.

Por Favor - I'm not sure about annual leadership elections either. As the current voting system stands, it would be mayhem every bloody year, and there would be no time to get on with the business of getting the policies right and doing the opposing that needs doing so urgently.
However, I do think that it's a good idea to have a vote in the PLP for posts in the shadow cabinet. If the MPs disgruntled with the new leader could just button it for a bit, and contribute to the team that will oppose the Tories, it would be helpful - it would also provide balance, as Corbyn would not (rightly) be populating his front bench with his pals but would be working with MPs from all sections (factions?) of the party.
You are right about the middle ground - a few of us have noted this, and the middle has been moving rightwards for 30 years or more.

All - Show's going in later today; as his lift won't be able to hang around while I get him settled in, and I can't cope with (or afford) the 3 buses and 4 hours it'll take me to get home (assuming I get to Hereford in time for the last bus), I'm staying here. I think he's secretly relieved that I won't be faffing about making too much fuss and/or bursting into tears or asking too many questions of the nurses....I won't be able to visit, either, until my daughter comes at the weekend. I'll find out tonight if the op's going ahead tomorrow.

So I'm here to annoy you all!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:45 am

ephemerid wrote:
All - Show's going in later today; as his lift won't be able to hang around while I get him settled in, and I can't cope with (or afford) the 3 buses and 4 hours it'll take me to get home (assuming I get to Hereford in time for the last bus), I'm staying here. I think he's secretly relieved that I won't be faffing about making too much fuss and/or bursting into tears or asking too many questions of the nurses....I won't be able to visit, either, until my daughter comes at the weekend. I'll find out tonight if the op's going ahead tomorrow.

So I'm here to annoy you all!

I hope all goes well.

(And the hospital's loss, in terms of your presence, is our gain.)

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:47 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Civil Service World
‏@CSWnews
Ex No 10 staffers on life in the thick of it. Feat. @MichaelBarber9, @DanRCorry & @jamesosh: http://tinyurl.com/pjl89s3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know we knew this already but Monckton comes across as a weirdo. O'Shaughnessy isn't that much better - he's part of the problem!

From Barber:

What was most satisfying?
The PMDU was an innovation not just in British government but globally – and it worked! During that parliament crime fell, health outcomes improved, NHS waiting times fell, school performance improved and even the trains became more reliable! I also loved being part of a great team dedicated to the PM, all pulling together during some tough times, especially before, during and after 9/11 and the Iraq War.

Yes, and what happened post-2010?

Cameron disbanded it presumably on the basis that "It's a Labour idea so can't be any good".

And guess what - he's now put something back very much like it.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:51 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Civil Service World
‏@CSWnews
Ex No 10 staffers on life in the thick of it. Feat. @MichaelBarber9, @DanRCorry & @jamesosh: http://tinyurl.com/pjl89s3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I know we knew this already but Monckton comes across as a weirdo. O'Shaughnessy isn't that much better - he's part of the problem!

From Barber:

What was most satisfying?
The PMDU was an innovation not just in British government but globally – and it worked! During that parliament crime fell, health outcomes improved, NHS waiting times fell, school performance improved and even the trains became more reliable! I also loved being part of a great team dedicated to the PM, all pulling together during some tough times, especially before, during and after 9/11 and the Iraq War.
Yes, and what happened post-2010?

Cameron disbanded it presumably on the basis that "It's a Labour idea so can't be any good".

And guess what - he's now put something back very much like it.

Interesting that you quoted the very paragraph that most grabbed me, Roger. It was striking in that it showed someone who actually cared about the outcomes for the people and the country of his work ... didn't see much evidence of that in the contributions by the others.

DonutHingeParty · Post by **DonutHingeParty** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:52 am

yahyah wrote:That's part of why I voted Corbyn. I want someone who will point that out.

Why is it we can have a right wing government that is selling off all and sundry and we get fed the notion that Cameron is middle ground ?

But . . . but he eats Pringles . . .

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 10:57 am

This from today is what I was trying to say yesterday on rail
http://www.johnkay.com/2015/08/19/rail- ... d-autonomy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:00 am

rebeccariots2 wrote: Interesting that you quoted the very paragraph that most grabbed me, Roger. It was striking in that it showed someone who actually cared about the outcomes for the people and the country of his work ... didn't see much evidence of that in the contributions by the others.

I have first-hand experience of that PMDU. I can't recall which policy it was now but we (and about 5 other schools in the borough) had a visit from them to get our views on whether we thought that one area of policy was working. At the end they'd take all of those views and carry them back to No 10.

Now...opposing views are ignored and they simply carry on with the programme whether anyone likes it or not.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:14 am

To the surprise of some, the Daily Record in Scotland has come out in favour of Corbyn as Labour leader.

This is a genuine departure from them as they usually back "mainstream" candidates (including Jim Murphy for SLab leader last year and Kez just recently)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:23 am

At the back of my leadership candidates booklet which came with my ballot paper yesterday is the section re Candidates for National Policy Forum - Wales.

Sheesh - what a depressing, obtuse non-read. Candidates statements that are - for the most part - lists of councils, organisations, committees and jobs they have had. The very fact that I already know so little - in fact nothing - about these people tells me how far apart the structures of the LP are from my branch and my experience as a Labour member. After reading I know pretty much nothing more about them and how they tick - and what they are going to do. Even more depressing - at the end of almost every statement they tell you who else of the candidates they want you to vote for / they will work with. So it's pre factioned / grouped. I would have welcome a short para - and I mean short - at the beginning of the section just outlining the role of the National Policy Forum - how they operate etc. Nothing. Given we have so many new members ... not a great way in to the 'machine'.

The only statements I enjoyed reading - were in the slightest interesting and energised - were the youth representatives. And I'm not allowed to vote for one of them because I'm not under 27.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:24 am

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-57794363" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour seeks legal advice over leadership election infiltration fears

Lawyers called in to ensure process is not open to challenge after concerns system is being gamed by people who support other parties

This could be read two ways. Many btl seem to think Labour are gearing up to call the election illegitimate if Corbyn wins but to me it reads that Labour are looking to shut down any claims of illegitimacy whoever wins and they really must. The media will try to drag it out for months, ignoring government scandals and incompetence in the meanwhile, in an attempt to destabilise the opposition. Labour can't let that happen. If Corbyn wins, Labour need to run with him, at least until its clear from the polls whether or not he's connecting with the electorate. As far as I'm concerned, a lot of genuine people also need to vote for whoever wins, so they will be genuinely popular within the party regardless of fraudulent voters. All the contenders have been selected by MPs as viable contenders. Kendall is easily as far to the margins of the party to the right, as Corbyn is to the left, but I can't see this conversation about "illegitimacy" and rigged ballots happening if she were in the lead, even though the same possibility of people with no real affiliation signing up for £3 to vote for her would still exist.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:31 am

As already pointed out, there are only a few thousand genuine "Trots" in the whole country. And many of them have no interest in entryism, indeed are explicitly opposed to it.

If anything, it is the other end of things we have to worry about - though it shouldn't be that hard to track down Tories trying to subvert the process given their propensity to crow about it on social media. And if they had any sense (or concept of fair play, though I admit that is being a tad optimistic) CCO could simply declare such an activity incompatible with continued party membership - as is indeed the case already if you follow their existing rules strictly.

After all, other parties (Tories included) have an interest in primary type elections and ensuring they are not tainted.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:33 am

Willow904 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-57794363

Labour seeks legal advice over leadership election infiltration fears

Lawyers called in to ensure process is not open to challenge after concerns system is being gamed by people who support other parties
This could be read two ways. Many btl seem to think Labour are gearing up to call the election illegitimate if Corbyn wins but to me it reads that Labour are looking to shut down any claims of illegitimacy whoever wins and they really must. The media will try to drag it out for months, ignoring government scandals and incompetence in the meanwhile, in an attempt to destabilise the opposition. Labour can't let that happen. If Corbyn wins, Labour need to run with him, at least until its clear from the polls whether or not he's connecting with the electorate. As far as I'm concerned, a lot of genuine people also need to vote for whoever wins, so they will be genuinely popular within the party regardless of fraudulent voters. All the contenders have been selected by MPs as viable contenders. Kendall is easily as far to the margins of the party to the right, as Corbyn is to the left, but I can't see this conversation about "illegitimacy" and rigged ballots happening if she were in the lead, even though the same possibility of people with no real affiliation signing up for £3 to vote for her would still exist.

I see the legal advice as you do ... to ensure there are no grounds for judicial review / challenge by groups who don't like or trust the outcome of the election. And the point you make about Kendall being as far to the right of the party as Corbyn is to the left is spot on. September is going to be grisly - we'll probably have yet more furious, contorted commentators from the right of the party and the usual 'expert' commentators brought in by the media. It'll be like a massive outbreak of political acne - the flare up of flare ups. Oh what a wondrous prospect.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:41 am

rebeccariots2 wrote: Read it. Words fail if it's true. Even if it's not ... how on earth would Butler Sloss have been considered an impartial and unconflicted chair of the CSA enquiry? How on earth could she even have imagined she might be?

Elizabeth Butler-Sloss has no formal qualifications in law. Her formal education is limited to school and a year at the University of Lausanne. She was called to the Bar in 1955, aged 22, from the Inner Temple - so I assume she was studying, doing a pupillage, whatever. These days you wouldn't be called until after you'd done the formal education.
Her father was a judge; her brother was a judge and became Lord Chancellor. There are politicians in the family too.
Her husband got an MA in 1951 and was called to the Bar in 1952 - it seems that not having a law degree did not prevent either from becoming barristers and then judges. Couldn't happen now.

She is obviously a very clever woman; but I think she is an example of how the establishment looks after its' own. The conversation between Tubby and tc yesterday was interesting - I appreciate what Tubby was saying about Oxbridge, but whilst things are better than they were, it remains the case that coming from the "right" sort of family, going to the "right" sort of school, and either getting into the expected universities, or having the useful connections gained from all that, will get you into places closed to most people.
The sort of private clubs and social circles these people move in is where the sons and daughters of the elite get their chances and the useful little internships and whatnot that kick off a career - and those things are not available to the majority. That's why so many of the politicians and Lords come from the same sort of backgrounds.

Butler-Sloss is a very intelligent woman and she has a wealth of experience - but some of her judgements were not without controversy.
She should never have accepted the role for the CSA enquiry - but her establishment background probably allowed her to assume that she was the right person for the job. It's the sort of confidence people from her social background seem to have....
Theresa May has, as with so many other things, demonstrated a woeful lack of judgement. It was Butler-Sloss' brother who was involved in the Hayman business; she herself was accused of putting the reputation of the CofE before that of abuse victims in another case - if May didn't know this, she was negligent; and if she did, she was happy to appoint someone with personal involvement to the very people implicated in the events she was charged to investigate.

And now we have a judge from New Zealand who, if the inquiry lasts the 5 years it's expected to, will earn £2.5 Million chairing it.
I hope she gives us value for money.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:42 am

rebeccariots2 wrote: It'll be like a massive outbreak of political acne - the flare up of flare ups.

I'm thinking more along the lines of bumboils.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:49 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:As already pointed out, there are only a few thousand genuine "Trots" in the whole country. And many of them have no interest in entryism, indeed are explicitly opposed to it.

If anything, it is the other end of things we have to worry about - though it shouldn't be that hard to track down Tories trying to subvert the process given their propensity to crow about it on social media. And if they had any sense (or concept of fair play, though I admit that is being a tad optimistic) CCO could simply declare such an activity incompatible with continued party membership - as is indeed the case already if you follow their existing rules strictly.

After all, other parties (Tories included) have an interest in primary type elections and ensuring they are not tainted.

Well quite - I notice that the Tory leadership has been very quiet about their supporters signing up for Labour - apart from the idiotic Tim Loughton who really ought to be given a dressing down by his party - and by Bercow when Parliament is sitting.

I wonder what Sarah Wollaston thinks about this given she was selected on an open primary?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 11:52 am

UrgentHealthUK ‏@UrgentHealthUK 20m20 minutes ago
Map: Regional variation in GP trainee vacancies revealed by @GPonlinenews @davdmillett http://bit.ly/1hooP6f" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Take a look. You can see the postcode inequalities looming in the service - well in advance. Really worrying.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 12:07 pm

Afternoon.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... atter-most" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For Labour's next leader, their first 17 days in charge are the ones that matter most
To win again, Labour must tackle the perception that it was a soft touch on immigration and spent too heavily in office, warns Ed Miliband's pollster James Morris.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 12:53 pm

Ashley Madison hack: '150 UK Government email addresses' in data dump of 32 million adulterers

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1181135 ... -live.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Please let Gove be one of them, if only to wipe the complacent smirk off Sarah Vine's gob.

& if there's someone posting there from a government email address who likes dog collars, rubber pants, call girls and Colombian exports it won't be too hard to guess who that is.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 1:04 pm

HindleA wrote:Afternoon.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... atter-most" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For Labour's next leader, their first 17 days in charge are the ones that matter most
To win again, Labour must tackle the perception that it was a soft touch on immigration and spent too heavily in office, warns Ed Miliband's pollster James Morris.

Not a bad assessment of Labour's current challenges.

Understanding what needs to be done doesn't necessarily get you any closer to achieving it, though. Especially if you keep sharing your best ideas with a hostile media. While Labour need to get their agreed policies more forcefully into the public domain, I think they would do better by keeping their strategic thinking behind closed doors a bit more.

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 1:07 pm

yahyah wrote:Ashley Madison hack: '150 UK Government email addresses' in data dump of 32 million adulterers

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1181135 ... -live.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Please let Gove be one of them, if only to wipe the complacent smirk off Sarah Vine's gob.

& if there's someone posting there from a government email address who likes dog collars, rubber pants, call girls and Colombian exports it won't be too hard to guess who that is.

*snigger*

You're a wicked woman - I like it!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 19 Aug, 2015 1:14 pm

yahyah wrote:Morning.

Just want to echo the good wishes sent to Show, Ephie, Adrian and his partner and OhSo & Mr OhSo.
& lovely to see AAW pop in last night.

Thanks for all the good wishes.

We are off for another pre-op this afternoon, and Mr Ohso goes in to have the second op to remove any lingering bits of the growth on Monday.