Friday 21st August 2015

[LadyCentauria]

European Championship Team Showjumping comp finishes with Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland in Gold, Silver, Bronze, respectively. GB land in 4th but finally win their ticket for Rio, which was the main goal for the team in this championships. In the Individuals, we have Joe Clee & Utamaro d´Ecaussines laying 8th, Ben Maher & Diva II in 10th, and Michael Whitaker & Cassionato in 28th; sadly, Jessica Mendoza & Spirit T finished in 68th place, yesterday, so didn't continue to today's competition. Our top three Individuals could well improve on their current positions in the next round depending on how they go and the luck/judgement of those now ahead of them.

Full results/placing in all competitions, including Driving and Vaulting, are available here:
http://results.aachen2015.de/show/7/schedule

[55DegreesNorth]

I haven't voted yet, but I'm getting more Corbynesque every time I hear another beige whinge from the dreary trio.
It crossed my mind that whoever wins should guarantee the introduction of genuine PR, without a referendum. That would ensure the support of the Greens, what's left of the LibDems and probably UKIP. The representation in Scotland would be increased, and the Nats couldn't complain as that's how SP works.
A result would be the end of majority government, which might be a good thing, as the right would be excluded from power for ever.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Debbie Abrahams calls for Iain Duncan Smith to resign

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/08/2 ... ould-roll/

I struggle to think of anything IDS could do that would make Cameron sack him. Discovering a conscience maybe, which seems unlikely. Truly he is coated in Tory Teflon (nothing appears stuck to it when seen by a Tory or a BBC journalist, even though for the rest of the country it appears covered in shit).

[rebeccariots2]

EU suspends £45m cash for Scotland over 'irregularities'
Accounting irregularities force Brussels to suspend payments to Scotland
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... ities.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The European Union has suspended around £45 million of payments to Scotland after the discovery of accounting “irregularities”, it emerged today.
The EU said that the Scottish Government had done too little to resolve concerns about its accounting, seven months after the problems were first reported.
The payments relate to the European Social Fund, which provides training to unemployed people with the aim of alleviating poverty.
The suspension amounts to nearly a quarter of the £193 million allocated to Scotland under the fund in the 2007-13 spending round.
It is an embarrassing blow for the SNP administration. Other countries to see their EU funding suspended in recent years include Bulgaria, Hungary and the Calabria region of southern Italy.
Payments could be restored in a matter of months, it is understood.

[TechnicalEphemera]

I haven't voted yet, but I'm getting more Corbynesque every time I hear another beige whinge from the dreary trio.
It crossed my mind that whoever wins should guarantee the introduction of genuine PR, without a referendum. That would ensure the support of the Greens, what's left of the LibDems and probably UKIP. The representation in Scotland would be increased, and the Nats couldn't complain as that's how SP works.
A result would be the end of majority government, which might be a good thing, as the right would be excluded from power for ever.

I don't necessarily disagree on PR, although Corbyn would already have the Greens, but would never get the remaining Lib Dems. However I think if you combined Tory, UKIP and LD votes you might have got a right wing government.

[rebeccariots2]

I haven't voted yet, but I'm getting more Corbynesque every time I hear another beige whinge from the dreary trio.
It crossed my mind that whoever wins should guarantee the introduction of genuine PR, without a referendum. That would ensure the support of the Greens, what's left of the LibDems and probably UKIP. The representation in Scotland would be increased, and the Nats couldn't complain as that's how SP works.
A result would be the end of majority government, which might be a good thing, as the right would be excluded from power for ever.

I'm feeling very similar to you by the sound of it. There is a Labour MP who has started calling for PR to be a central plank of a left alliance going forward to 2020.

[Temulkar]

When he talks about a political accommodation with ISIS he has crossed the line. As others pointed out how much enslavement, rape and murder of women and non believers is acceptable in Corbyn's mind? He probably doesn't think of it like that, but that is the logical end of his argument.

Where do you stand on the Taliban?

A good question, been out all day.

One of the reasons I was opposed to Iraq was that the Taliban clearly hadn't been defeated and the sort of half arsed messing around in Afghanistan that the US engaged in clearly wasn't going to do it. In the ideal world no country should have to live under the bunch of vicious thugs and oppressors of women that are the Taliban.

Unfortunately they kicked our arse in Afghanistan, largely helped by the resources consumed by Iraq. The west have run away and now it is only a matter of time before the Taliban again rule Afghanistan. Hopefully this time they won't be supporting and sheltering organisations launching attacks on western cities. So rather sadly we have to accept we have failed utterly and move on, the best that can be said is unlike Libya we at least tried to stabilise the country.

Of course one issue that the Taliban have is they are themselves being targeted and murdered by ISIS, which is not a good thing either.

Every single military intervention in Afhganistan has failed since Alexander The Great. Every single fucking one, including about 4 attempts by our own military that have all ended in at best abject failure, at worst with the loss of a whole army. Every single time there has been an invasion of the country in the last 2.300 years has followwed exactly the same pattern and ended up with exactly the same result. The invader leaving wth their tails between their legs after a massive loss of life on both sides. Romans Persians, Sassanids, Russian Empire, British Empire, Timur the Lame, Ghengiz Khan, Soviet Union, Mughals, Sikh Empire and now US and us again.

When you bomb the civilians of a nation, it does not destroy their spirit it makes them fight harder. It is called the blitz reaction, a phrase coined by our own military stategists. Every bomb we havd dropped has led to increased support for the people we are bombing, and increased threat to our own saftey. The only people who have beniffitted are the arms dealers and coffin makers.

It is mindless ignorance of history and geo politics that you have displayed today. You should be utterly ashamed of your earlier comments, not compounding them with this drivel.

[Willow904]

I'll be honest, I am not delirious about Corbyn Willow, even though I voted for him.
I'd get behind Burnham, who was my second choice, although talk of legal challenges from his camp is a bit irksome.

I hope there is a clear preference from Labour members.

Problem is those Labour members aren't what they were, and if the result is swung by "supporters" it will just be a mess.

As I said a while ago the only viable option was to restrict the vote to the membership and supporters at GE+1 month.

If Corbyn wins that, which he might, his election really would be the will of Labour Party members. As it is this is just an utter shambles, although I doubt anybody actually will challenge it in the courts.

I have to admit I'm unclear why new members and supporters were allowed to continue to sign up and vote after the candidate list was announced. That would have seemed a good point to cut it off. I appreciate the unions still had to sign up members to vote individually and needed more time to do so, but I see no reason to continue with the rest. The union members would all have paid dues before the cut off point, so there would be no unfairness in letting them continue to put ballot lists together after other avenues had stopped because no one could pay the political levy retrospectively just to vote. (If that makes any sense. I've had a woolly head today. I blame the weather.)

[LadyCentauria]

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 6m6 minutes ago
If rejected from Labour leader ballot, Londoners can for £1 vote for Tory London Mayor. No ideological pre-screen. https://registration.conservatives.com/ ... ection2015" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Should we expect an #AnyoneButGoldsmith campaign and hashtag to appear superfast?

And can we expect a furious 'who thought this register-for-a-pound scheme was a good idea!!!???' campaign, too?
[tory]Egad! "The Party" might be infiltrated by fascists and Kippers! Voting should only be open to people of proven loyalty who've been members for at least sixty years!!!! :faints in fit of apoplexy: [/tory]

[TechnicalEphemera]

Where do you stand on the Taliban?

A good question, been out all day.

One of the reasons I was opposed to Iraq was that the Taliban clearly hadn't been defeated and the sort of half arsed messing around in Afghanistan that the US engaged in clearly wasn't going to do it. In the ideal world no country should have to live under the bunch of vicious thugs and oppressors of women that are the Taliban.

Unfortunately they kicked our arse in Afghanistan, largely helped by the resources consumed by Iraq. The west have run away and now it is only a matter of time before the Taliban again rule Afghanistan. Hopefully this time they won't be supporting and sheltering organisations launching attacks on western cities. So rather sadly we have to accept we have failed utterly and move on, the best that can be said is unlike Libya we at least tried to stabilise the country.

Of course one issue that the Taliban have is they are themselves being targeted and murdered by ISIS, which is not a good thing either.

Every single military intervention in Afhganistan has failed since Alexander The Great. Every single fucking one, including about 4 attempts by our own military that have all ended in at best abject failure, at worst with the loss of a whole army. Every single time there has been an invasion of the country in the last 2.300 years has followwed exactly the same pattern and ended up with exactly the same result. The invader leaving wth their tails between their legs after a massive loss of life on both sides. Romans Persians, Sassanids, Russian Empire, British Empire, Timur the Lame, Ghengiz Khan, Soviet Union, Mughals, Sikh Empire and now US and us again.

When you bomb the civilians of a nation, it does not destroy their spirit it makes them fight harder. It is called the blitz reaction, a phrase coined by our own military stategists. Every bomb we havd dropped has led to increased support for the people we are bombing, and increased threat to our own saftey. The only people who have beniffitted are the arms dealers and coffin makers.

It is mindless ignorance of history and geo politics that you have displayed today. You should be utterly ashamed of your earlier comments, not compounding them with this drivel.

Bite me.

Edited only to add: Don't construct a straw man argument in assuming my preferred approach to Afghanistan was to blow it to pieces with bombs. Which would be utterly pointless.

[Temulkar]

A good question, been out all day.

One of the reasons I was opposed to Iraq was that the Taliban clearly hadn't been defeated and the sort of half arsed messing around in Afghanistan that the US engaged in clearly wasn't going to do it. In the ideal world no country should have to live under the bunch of vicious thugs and oppressors of women that are the Taliban.

Unfortunately they kicked our arse in Afghanistan, largely helped by the resources consumed by Iraq. The west have run away and now it is only a matter of time before the Taliban again rule Afghanistan. Hopefully this time they won't be supporting and sheltering organisations launching attacks on western cities. So rather sadly we have to accept we have failed utterly and move on, the best that can be said is unlike Libya we at least tried to stabilise the country.

Of course one issue that the Taliban have is they are themselves being targeted and murdered by ISIS, which is not a good thing either.

Every single military intervention in Afhganistan has failed since Alexander The Great. Every single fucking one, including about 4 attempts by our own military that have all ended in at best abject failure, at worst with the loss of a whole army. Every single time there has been an invasion of the country in the last 2.300 years has followwed exactly the same pattern and ended up with exactly the same result. The invader leaving wth their tails between their legs after a massive loss of life on both sides. Romans Persians, Sassanids, Russian Empire, British Empire, Timur the Lame, Ghengiz Khan, Soviet Union, Mughals, Sikh Empire and now US and us again.

When you bomb the civilians of a nation, it does not destroy their spirit it makes them fight harder. It is called the blitz reaction, a phrase coined by our own military stategists. Every bomb we havd dropped has led to increased support for the people we are bombing, and increased threat to our own saftey. The only people who have beniffitted are the arms dealers and coffin makers.

It is mindless ignorance of history and geo politics that you have displayed today. You should be utterly ashamed of your earlier comments, not compounding them with this drivel.

Bite me.

I wouldnt want to poison myself.

[howsillyofme1]

come on folks...play nice

[TechnicalEphemera]

Every single military intervention in Afhganistan has failed since Alexander The Great. Every single fucking one, including about 4 attempts by our own military that have all ended in at best abject failure, at worst with the loss of a whole army. Every single time there has been an invasion of the country in the last 2.300 years has followwed exactly the same pattern and ended up with exactly the same result. The invader leaving wth their tails between their legs after a massive loss of life on both sides. Romans Persians, Sassanids, Russian Empire, British Empire, Timur the Lame, Ghengiz Khan, Soviet Union, Mughals, Sikh Empire and now US and us again.

When you bomb the civilians of a nation, it does not destroy their spirit it makes them fight harder. It is called the blitz reaction, a phrase coined by our own military stategists. Every bomb we havd dropped has led to increased support for the people we are bombing, and increased threat to our own saftey. The only people who have beniffitted are the arms dealers and coffin makers.

It is mindless ignorance of history and geo politics that you have displayed today. You should be utterly ashamed of your earlier comments, not compounding them with this drivel.

Bite me.

I wouldnt want to poison myself.

Odd you seem full of the stuff, try being civil.

[Temulkar]

Bite me.

I wouldnt want to poison myself.

Odd you seem full of the stuff, try being civil.

After your sickening attempt to smear a decent man today, I have nothing but contempt for you. Why don't you apologise for that.

[utopiandreams]

@LadyCentauria

Thanks, LadyC, for the tip re. boiler but have tried all that. I searched appropriate fora last time when it was an intermittent problem. No go at all now though. I've texted my landlord. Obviously I don't think it deliberate but you never know, the engineer probably thought I needed to cool down a little.

Edit: removed my stupid question and I really mean stupid, not some facile joke.

[utopiandreams]

Did I really just hear someone say titty and bell end on Radio 4 !

You did indeed - as part of whichever sketch show is on now - Dead Ringers I think.

Earlier on today I was half listening as I did a purge on weeds and overgrown plants and vine in the greenhouse and I heard someone refer to 'bottom-dwelling fish'. It took me a moment to clean up my automatic associative image function and get the right drift on that one.

Isn't that where blue goldfish come from, rr2?

[utopiandreams]

Here is Dave, standing up for the security of us all.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... urity.html

Copy/paste/repeat continually from now until 2020.

Although budget cuts probably mean Dave won't get to ride in a tank like Maggie did.

I believe there's no shortage of septic tanks available, TE.

[LadyCentauria]

If Corbyn is going to win ... the best, and probably necessary, thing would be for it to be by a huge majority - which clearly includes many longstanding members.

That said ... I'm then expecting him to start a process of reaching out to all parts of the party - parliamentary, grass roots, etc - to start crafting a new way of working and developing policy. I'm also expecting (but with considerable anxiety because on current rhetoric it's far from certain) those people who haven't got their preferred outcome of leader to get behind this process and work hard on behalf of the party - not carry on the infighting.

I will be an optimist - I will, I will, I will ... and so on.

Maybe.

I'd have to quit in those circumstances, but the departure of the small band of people like me may be good for unity . I may have to float and vote according to individual candidate.

But why? Would it make a difference to your decision if Corbyn wins the leadership but your preferred choice of deputy is elected and/or your preferences for London Mayor, GLA assembly members, etc.,? Would you not stay in the party to continue to campaign for your views for the long term? I ask because, as you might have read, I've said that I might reconsider my own membership should Kendall win but that I'd think long and hard about it. My 'long and hard thinking' would look at who was elected/selected for those other position, then who was appointed to the which positions in the Shadow Cabinet, how she led the party in the Commons in opposing the Tories both in Parliament and in public, and on how the policy direction (and specifics) look to be taking shape. I wouldn't simply quit, instantly.

[utopiandreams]

Debbie Abrahams calls for Iain Duncan Smith to resign

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/08/2 ... ould-roll/

I struggle to think of anything IDS could do that would make Cameron sack him. Discovering a conscience maybe, which seems unlikely. Truly he is coated in Tory Teflon (nothing appears stuck to it when seen by a Tory or a BBC journalist, even though for the rest of the country it appears covered in shit).

I'm sorry as I really don't want to annoy, TE, he is doing Dave's and George's bidding; that's why I call him a batman. Has no-one looked at his military career?

[tinyclanger2]

Is the link in your post working okay?
Is there a technical problem on my end?

There is zero problem your end, Citoyen.

I have posted the wrong thing, as per usual. D'oh.

http://www.thegrimsqueakerreturns.wordpress.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; TGS has returned. It's all in a word....

If that doesn't work (and knowing me it probably won't) just google thegrimsqueakerreturns

I wish Grim would return here. Miss him.

And Ernst and various others

[ohsocynical]

Scott Nelson @TheMockneyRebel

Liz Kendall says she is ready to join "The Resistance" along with Chuka Umunna and Tristram Hunt if Corbyn wins.

This is off Twitter so not sure if it's correct or not. But if true I find it disturbing and distasteful...

[tinyclanger2]

I am naive, but if Corbyn gets it that's a message to Labour. It needs to be Labour.
Of the current leaders either way - as Golding once put it - the choice is terrible. But at least Corbyn is a message that enough is enough.
Not a sophisticated political analysis - but let's face it, people voted for Paddy Ashdown back in the day because he was seen by old dears in the southwest as a "nice man"

[tinyclanger2]

Scott Nelson @TheMockneyRebel

Liz Kendall says she is ready to join "The Tories" along with Chuka Umunna and Tristram Hunt if Corbyn wins.

This is off Twitter so not sure if it's correct or not. But if true I find it disturbing and distasteful...

Sorry - couldn't resist it.

[LadyCentauria]

How accurate are these Labour leadership polls likely to be? Does Burnham really stand no chance?

I guess I still don't really get the whole Corbyn thing. I agree with him on some things, not on others. There's nothing that makes me think he would be a good leader as opposed to just a good debater, which he clearly is, but is that enough? I guess I'm just feeling left out because other people are excited about a potential leader when I'm not. I just can't see myself getting behind him like I did Ed. If he is destined to win, I just hope he'll grow on me eventually.

I'm voting Burnham (unless 'events' intervene) and might use my second choice for Corbyn but, unless those 'events' do intervene, I'm unlikely to use my third and fourth preferences. So, although I'm excited about the process, the swing back towards the left-left, and very interested to see Corbyn apparently doing so very well in enthusing people, it is not Corbyn per se that is exciting me. Which is not to say that what he has to say does not interest me. Don't feel left out, you're certainly not alone.

[ohsocynical]

Scott Nelson @TheMockneyRebel

Liz Kendall says she is ready to join "The Tories" along with Chuka Umunna and Tristram Hunt if Corbyn wins.

This is off Twitter so not sure if it's correct or not. But if true I find it disturbing and distasteful...

Sorry - couldn't resist it.

But honestly if what that Tweet says is true, it's no wonder there is bad feeling. They are not exactly setting a good example, and are once again showing the seedy side of being an MP. It's not a very good example for the new generation of voters.
Their actions will be more responsible for letting the Tories in again, than the thousands of disillusioned voters who want to see Labour return to its roots.

I voted for Corbyn because his beliefs are mainly mine too...There must be thousands like me. There is going to be hell to pay if he wins fairly and squarely and they try to oust him

[TechnicalEphemera]

For Temulkar

FYI - we are done on the basis of your last statement.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Four local council byelections this week:

Orkney - this was an unusual Tuesday poll in an authority that is one of the few in the UK to still be almost monolithically dominated by Independents; four Indies were duly elected in this division both in 2007 and 2012, and only a Tory candidate in the first election broke the total non-party monopoly of those standing. However, there have been signs of the perfmafrost finally thawing in the last few years, in particular with the formation of an "Orkney Manifesto Group" in protest at what is seen as a complacent local establishment. The outgoing councillor here had been the leader of this group, and the Manifesto Group duly won this vacancy with just over half the vote (so no transfers necessary) A regular Independent was second, but another sign of growing political pluralism was a Green candidate standing and gaining a respectable 10%.

Cornwall - Tory gain from UKIP, though that does not tell quite the whole story as the Tories were barely changed on 2013 with 30% (elections in the Grand Duchy have been notably fragmented in recent years) and were run very close by the LibDems who came back strongly here after sitting the last regular elections out. Labour advanced modestly on last time and came a decent third, well ahead of UKIP who crashed to just 8% - a mere quarter of their winning share here previously. Just behind them, Mebyon Kernow (who won one of the predecessor divisions here in 2009) also fell heavily with their vote more than halved. Greens and an Independent (with just 1%) made up the numbers here.

West Oxfordshire DC - the PM's backyard duly saw a Tory hold, though they saw their share down from roughly half on GE day earlier this year to barely a third now. Running them close were the LibDems, who moved from a distant fifth (and last) in May to a good second now. Whilst they won this seat back in 2003, their strength since then has steadily declined so this was somewhat unexpected. Greens finished second here in all five previous elections between the LibDem win and this year when they were pushed into 3rd, and though they stayed there now they saw their vote share improve - in contrast to Labour who dropped from (a distant) runner up then to 4th now. UKIP down from 4th in May to 5th and last now, their vote down yet again.

Durham - Labour hold with over half the vote, around 10% up on 2013 - though this can partly be explained by the absence of an Independent candidate after they had come a good second back then with a third of the poll. The last of the three options then, the pro-devolutionist North East Party (who also had a few unsuccesful outings at the GE) moved to second this time even though their share was down from two years ago. This may be due to their being rather more choice now - four parties stood this time that did not then, the top placed being UKIP with 11% (they might have hoped to poll better here just a few months ago, however) not far ahead of the LibDems. Tories and Greens (with less than 2%) brought up the rear.

Just one contest to see out August.

[TechnicalEphemera]

Debbie Abrahams calls for Iain Duncan Smith to resign

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/08/2 ... ould-roll/

I struggle to think of anything IDS could do that would make Cameron sack him. Discovering a conscience maybe, which seems unlikely. Truly he is coated in Tory Teflon (nothing appears stuck to it when seen by a Tory or a BBC journalist, even though for the rest of the country it appears covered in shit).

I'm sorry as I really don't want to annoy, TE, he is doing Dave's and George's bidding; that's why I call him a batman. Has no-one looked at his military career?

I believe like much of IDS career underwhelming.

I fundamentally struggle to see the point of it all. The sums of money "saved" by the sanctions regime must be tiny. Even more so when you throw in the fact that many of those sanctioned end up either having to rely on charity or potentially homeless or in hospital (and sadly in some cases dead, which results in a long and costly investigation - which of course is of trivial concern compared to the fact the state has by neglect killed somebody).

Compared to all of that surely it would be cheaper to simply run a sensible sanctions regime that actually established fact, took account of circumstances and erred on the side of caution.

[rebeccariots2]

Any Questions is a good listen tonight.

Re Kendall, Umunna and Hunt forming the 'Resistance' - this was referred to in AQ tonight in a first question about the Labour leadership and whether there will be splits etc. Toynbee saying she doesn't think there will be a split ... and there shouldn't be because such division is just hopeless as evidenced by the SDP etc ... and agreeing that Corbyn has galvanised people and the debate in a way that seems very necessary. She's not a backer of his as far as I am aware ... but seems to understand change is absolutely what is needed and going to happen.

Surely if Corbyn does get elected with a large majority - the 'Resistance' will see that there is little appetite within the party for what they are espousing and it will either remain as a relatively small grouping within the party (hopefully not endlessly bigged up by the MSM - I can hope) or they will try and find another party where their perspectives and priorities will be more accepted and they will feel they fit?

[TechnicalEphemera]

Four local council byelections this week:

Orkney - this was an unusual Tuesday poll in an authority that is one of the few in the UK to still be almost monolithically dominated by Independents; four Indies were duly elected in this division both in 2007 and 2012, and only a Tory candidate in the first election broke the total non-party monopoly of those standing. However, there have been signs of the perfmafrost finally thawing in the last few years, in particular with the formation of an "Orkney Manifesto Group" in protest at what is seen as a complacent local establishment. The outgoing councillor here had been the leader of this group, and the Manifesto Group duly won this vacancy with just over half the vote (so no transfers necessary) A regular Independent was second, but another sign of growing political pluralism was a Green candidate standing and gaining a respectable 10%.

Cornwall - Tory gain from UKIP, though that does not tell quite the whole story as the Tories were barely changed on 2013 with 30% (elections in the Grand Duchy have been notably fragmented in recent years) and were run very close by the LibDems who came back strongly here after sitting the last regular elections out. Labour advanced modestly on last time and came a decent third, well ahead of UKIP who crashed to just 8% - a mere quarter of their winning share here previously. Just behind them, Mebyon Kernow (who won one of the predecessor divisions here in 2009) also fell heavily with their vote more than halved. Greens and an Independent (with just 1%) made up the numbers here.

West Oxfordshire DC - the PM's backyard duly saw a Tory hold, though they saw their share down from roughly half on GE day earlier this year to barely a third now. Running them close were the LibDems, who moved from a distant fifth (and last) in May to a good second now. Whilst they won this seat back in 2003, their strength since then has steadily declined so this was somewhat unexpected. Greens finished second here in all five previous elections between the LibDem win and this year when they were pushed into 3rd, and though they stayed there now they saw their vote share improve - in contrast to Labour who dropped from (a distant) runner up then to 4th now. UKIP down from 4th in May to 5th and last now, their vote down yet again.

Durham - Labour hold with over half the vote, around 10% up on 2013 - though this can partly be explained by the absence of an Independent candidate after they had come a good second back then with a third of the poll. The last of the three options then, the pro-devolutionist North East Party (who also had a few unsuccesful outings at the GE) moved to second this time even though their share was down from two years ago. This may be due to their being rather more choice now - four parties stood this time that did not then, the top placed being UKIP with 11% (they might have hoped to poll better here just a few months ago, however) not far ahead of the LibDems. Tories and Greens (with less than 2%) brought up the rear.

Just one contest to see out August.

The West Oxfordshire result is interesting, it suggests in rural Tory stronghold seats we may be seeing the return of Lib Dems as an anti Tory party. If this continues in other similar seats maybe Farron's party could once again mount a challenge in the South West sooner than many thought.

[SpinningHugo]

If Corbyn is going to win ... the best, and probably necessary, thing would be for it to be by a huge majority - which clearly includes many longstanding members.

That said ... I'm then expecting him to start a process of reaching out to all parts of the party - parliamentary, grass roots, etc - to start crafting a new way of working and developing policy. I'm also expecting (but with considerable anxiety because on current rhetoric it's far from certain) those people who haven't got their preferred outcome of leader to get behind this process and work hard on behalf of the party - not carry on the infighting.

I will be an optimist - I will, I will, I will ... and so on.

Maybe.

I'd have to quit in those circumstances, but the departure of the small band of people like me may be good for unity . I may have to float and vote according to individual candidate.

But why? Would it make a difference to your decision if Corbyn wins the leadership but your preferred choice of deputy is elected and/or your preferences for London Mayor, GLA assembly members, etc.,? Would you not stay in the party to continue to campaign for your views for the long term? I ask because, as you might have read, I've said that I might reconsider my own membership should Kendall win but that I'd think long and hard about it. My 'long and hard thinking' would look at who was elected/selected for those other position, then who was appointed to the which positions in the Shadow Cabinet, how she led the party in the Commons in opposing the Tories both in Parliament and in public, and on how the policy direction (and specifics) look to be taking shape. I wouldn't simply quit, instantly.

It is a hard choice for me. I have been Labour all my adult life (save, as I explained, over Iraw post 2003).

But, Corbyn is out there for me. I don't want to be associated with him. If he won narrowly, I could reconcile with it on the basis that it was a combination of his having been under examined, the weakness of the other candidates, and an understandable desire for radical change. I would disagree strongly, but could rationalise it. I would not expect him to last long.

If he wins by a mile, I will conclude that the party of Ernest Bevin, Barbara Castle, Anthony Crosland, and in our time Darling, Cook, etc is dead. This isnt like electing a misguided unifier like Foot.

Corbyn is reheated Bennism. Not for me.

[Temulkar]

For Temulkar

FYI - we are done on the basis of your last statement.

No skin off my nose. You sould be thouroughly ashamed of your comments about Corbyn and Daesh earlier, the fact that you are so unrepentant says all I need to know.

[TechnicalEphemera]

For anybody who has wondered what happens when a plane gets struck by lightning (as highlighted by the travel agents in the Truman show).

Somebody has caught it on video here:

http://youtu.be/HZVX921Z0wc

[rebeccariots2]

I have thought for a while that the Lib Dems may be able to come back in some areas a lot quicker than we might have supposed. The 2015 election was such a rock bottom for them ... the knockout blow of a very drawn out fight ... or, alternatively, the moment in an operatic death scene when the singer who has been singing as they die for a full five minutes finally stops singing. They've had a bit of a deep clean - can now stop being the Tories junior partner - and be an alternative again.

[rebeccariots2]

I apologise for posting a tweet from this particular person ... but

Karl Turner MP retweeted
Louise Mensch ‏@LouiseMensch 41s42 seconds ago
I've been against Torys signing up to vote in Labour's election but I have to admit, the fact Andy Percy MP got a ballot is just hilarious.

To see what she finds 'hilarious' take a look at Andrew Percy's twitter feed - and Kendall's who he has, apparently, voted for.

[LadyCentauria]

Debbie Abrahams calls for Iain Duncan Smith to resign

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2015/08/2 ... ould-roll/

Gladly signed the petition, linked to in the article.

[ohsocynical]

Any Questions is a good listen tonight.

Re Kendall, Umunna and Hunt forming the 'Resistance' - this was referred to in AQ tonight in a first question about the Labour leadership and whether there will be splits etc. Toynbee saying she doesn't think there will be a split ... and there shouldn't be because such division is just hopeless as evidenced by the SDP etc ... and agreeing that Corbyn has galvanised people and the debate in a way that seems very necessary. She's not a backer of his as far as I am aware ... but seems to understand change is absolutely what is needed and going to happen.

Surely if Corbyn does get elected with a large majority - the 'Resistance' will see that there is little appetite within the party for what they are espousing and it will either remain as a relatively small grouping within the party (hopefully not endlessly bigged up by the MSM - I can hope) or they will try and find another party where their perspectives and priorities will be more accepted and they will feel they fit?

If the thought of Labour returning to the left is so abhorrent, they should say so loudly and clearly and then give their constituents the chance to deselect them if they so wish.

[Temulkar]

I think I will stay away from here until after the leadership election, it is only going to get more bitter, and I really dont want to get annoyed and cause an argument. I wish you all well.

[TobyLatimer]

Question Mime ...

CM4lUOhWgAA8Ty5.jpg (161.71 KiB) Viewed 5694 times

[Tonibel]

For what it's worth - Watson, Creasy & Eagle for deputy, in that order .....

Same three for me,but in reverse order.

[SpinningHugo]

I think I will stay away from here until after the leadership election, it is only going to get more bitter, and I really dont want to get annoyed and cause an argument. I wish you all well.

You think it is going to be better afterwards.

I don't. And I will almost certainly be gone

[JustMom]

I voted Corbyn,no second pref. Eagle no 2nd pref.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Chloe Smith, who I was expecting to see the back of in May, pops up in my rail magazine. Some rail plans in East Anglia, she opined, "would have gone backwards if Labour had won the election".

Hmmm, I thought. Turns out that the rail company are closely involved with the plans, but their franchise is coming up. So they want the franchise extended automatically. Labour and (I think) the Lib Dems both oppose this (called "refranchising").

How can this even be legal? It amounts to winning a new franchise without even bidding for one. But, hey, Chloe Smith will get a photo op by the new stuff. Given how full of herself she is in the article, this hardly bears thinking about.

Unfortunately, I reckon Chloe and all are in for a good stint in Parliament. I think she's laughing her socks off at Corbyn being elected.

[ChrisDean]

I voted Corbyn,no second pref. Eagle no 2nd pref.

Snap !

[rebeccariots2]

Chloe Smith, who I was expecting to see the back of in May, pops up in my rail magazine. Some rail plans in East Anglia, she opined, "would have gone backwards if Labour had won the election".

Hmmm, I thought. Turns out that the rail company are closely involved with the plans, but their franchise is coming up. So they want the franchise extended automatically. Labour and (I think) the Lib Dems both oppose this (called "refranchising").

How can this even be legal? It amounts to winning a new franchise without even bidding for one. But, hey, Chloe Smith will get a photo op by the new stuff. Given how full of herself she is in the article, this hardly bears thinking about.

Unfortunately, I reckon Chloe and all are in for a good stint in Parliament. I think she's laughing her socks off at Corbyn being elected.

It does seem incredible that she's back ... please don't tell me she got an increased majority. That would be too much to bear.

[HindleA]

Corbyn sounds too much like a well known trouser press to be leader,never mind a PM.Other trouser press manufacturers are available.

[rebeccariots2]

Corbyn sounds too much like a well known trouser press to be leader,never mind a PM.Other trouser press manufacturers are available.

Careful there, HindleA. We don't want to go that far backwards, do we? (Do they still manufacture them?)

[TechnicalEphemera]

As we started the day on China, this article in the Indy (Russian Oligarch owned I believe) provides some insight, and also shows why Cameron must not weaken the anti corruption laws. For example if I was involved in a sale to China and uncovered a dubious line in the cost model for commission, current law would require me to immediately alert somebody. My company would have a legal obligation not to pay that cost (it would of course lose the deal, but it wouldn't end up funding corruption).

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 66255.html

[TechnicalEphemera]

Corbyn sounds too much like a well known trouser press to be leader,never mind a PM.Other trouser press manufacturers are available.

Careful there, HindleA. We don't want to go that far backwards, do we? (Do they still manufacture them?)

I have often encountered them, but always assumed the sale of such useless items to hotels was some vast money laundering scheme, or else an American plot to ensure all UK conferences were conducted in crumpled clothes.

[ChrisDean]

Meanwhile, back in the good old Forest of Dean, it seems we may well have yet another fight on our hands. this time re fracking. Our MP, Mark Harper is all for it in principle, but according to him, the FOD has no shale gas to be exploited, so no worries. Wonder why the area is included in the latest map of areas to potentially, be
granted licences then ?