Tuesday 1st.September

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 5:24 am

Good morning, all.

Taking a little break for a week or so.

Enjoy yourselves.....

Post by **refitman** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 7:37 am

@utopiandreams - it's ArseneKnows, that you're thinking of (from last night).

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 7:42 am

@ephemerid

Cheers, ephe, no doubt mine shall be coming soon. Ordinarily I sleep straight through for 3-4 hours. Not lately though, perhaps as long for a couple of interrupted nights in the last couple of weeks. So if I go quiet it's nothing to worry about I'll just have slowed down with little to say. My recovery is usually one night of anything between 6 and 10 hours, but then I feel groggy, following that my usual undisturbed single cycle sleep, but usually less communicative. I believe I have mentioned that college students used to tease me for falling asleep on my feet, not during lectures I hasten to add but if I were just supervising a group of students in the Learning Resource Centre as it was called (on t'computers). I obviously did pay attention to what they did whether or not under my tutelage.

Anyway, all the best to you and show, ephe. I trust we shall see you after the Labour leadership results if not before.

Edit: replaced 'rest easy' given the circs.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 7:54 am

Carried forward from the weekend's blog...

Does anybody know what happened to 'Red...?' who used to post at the G and started his soiniciulach blog? He spoke a lot about disabled victims of the last government and ALEC. http://cynicism.me/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is no longer found. I know he wasn't well.

Postscript: his moniker still hasn't come to me, but I do recall he lived North of the border.

Anyway after a shit, shave and a shower (there used to be a fourth hopeful addition to the list as a youngster preparing to go out of an evening) I've been pondering on Guardian Profile Pages again and realised how useless these ID numbers are. Not from a database perspective, they're ideal as primary keys, nevertheless monikers are alternate keys (unique) too. Permission to access pages by moniker, Guardian developers. Perhaps I should pop over and suggest the like, but they no longer have a YTU page.

I have further suggestions if we had a universal access page for all commentators to filter as you type. Obviously that demands requests back and forth by individual letter but traffic could be reduced by a separate search button when you're ready to filter. That's what I would do if I were them, but I'm not, besides it rather depends on how much they value their posters. Personally I think it a big part of their draw so they'd be foolish to ignore them, although I do think that the profile pages are far better with the relatively new search facility. Of course we could all keep better records of users that capture our interest but even then expect them to get lost. Just saying; there are simply too few hours in the day.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 7:57 am

refitman wrote:@utopiandreams - it's ArseneKnows, that you're thinking of (from last night).

I thought @utopiandreams meant Red North ? He was on here briefly, still around on twitter https://twitter.com/RednorthUK" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **refitman** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 7:59 am

TobyLatimer wrote:
refitman wrote:@utopiandreams - it's ArseneKnows, that you're thinking of (from last night).

I thought @utopiandreams meant Red North ? He was on here briefly, still around on twitter https://twitter.com/RednorthUK" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Arsene started that blog, had a red logo on the Graun.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 8:01 am

Morning all.

INSET day at the school which I normally go to so will catch up here around lunchtime.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 8:03 am

refitman wrote:@utopiandreams - it's ArseneKnows, that you're thinking of (from last night).

Thanks, refitman, it must have been the Arsene/Arsenal connection that sparked 'Red'. On that score my landlords are two brothers and when they introduced themselves I remembered them by names of kings. Of course I ended up getting it wrong, being brothers and all I thought Richard and John. It's actually James and after only last week I discovered I'd got them the wrong way around. Just as well I hadn't been dropping their name into conversation (false mental picture when texting).

Anyway does anyone have any knowledge of ArseneKnows? I may not have been to his blog for a while but nonetheless do miss him. As I said before, too few hours in the day for everything.

Edit: removed ' either of them' after texting. What actually happened is I only had the mobile number of one of them and needed to contact them about my boiler. Said recipient was abroad and I just assumed he were the one who is regularly on site in the other flats (high turnover so require refreshing between tenants). He gave me his brother's number. I am left with the feeling that I may have appeared slightly odd should I have assumed their knowledge of texts when speaking face to face or vice versa. But that's nothing new.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 8:08 am

utopiandreams wrote:
refitman wrote:@utopiandreams - it's ArseneKnows, that you're thinking of (from last night).
Thanks, refitman, it must have been the Arsene/Arsenal connection that sparked 'Red'. On that score my landlords are two brothers and when they introduced themselves I remembered them by names of kings. Of course I ended up getting it wrong, being brothers and all I thought Richard and John. It's actually James and after only last week I discovered I'd got them the wrong way around. Just as well I hadn't been dropping their name into conversation (false mental picture when texting either of them).

Anyway does anyone have any knowledge of ArseneKnows? I may not have been to his blog for a while but nonetheless do miss him. As I said before, too few hours in the day for everything.

He's still around on The G https://profile.theguardian.com/user/id/2969301" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 8:23 am

Arggh, Farage back in the media studios trumpeting UKIP's anti-EU campaign.
His voice on Radio 4 is a horrible throwback to the months before the general election.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 8:45 am

yahyah wrote:Arggh, Farage back in the media studios trumpeting UKIP's anti-EU campaign.
His voice on Radio 4 is a horrible throwback to the months before the general election.

A softball interview that he seemed to struggle with. Hopefully a sign of things to come.

Morning all btw.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 8:52 am

I really value Tubby's posts, so it is not a direct moan at him, but can I ask that pics of people who have suffered violent deaths, as in the picture of bullet ridden drug baron Escobar last night, are linked to, rather than posted as images ?

It was a shock to see the image when reading last night's posts this morning, images can stick in the mind and be hard to shift once seen.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 9:08 am

Morning
http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... -universal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cuts could serve up an end to free healthy school dinners for infants
The fate of the new universal infant free school meals programme is unclear, as headteachers struggle with the cost and the government tries to reduce spending

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 9:10 am

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Local authorities 'cannot cope with further cuts'
Conservative-run Local Government Association says councils already face funding black hole of £10bn

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 9:15 am

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NHS health budgets funding holidays, Nintendo consoles and a pedalo ride
Investigation by medical publication uncovers unusual uses of some personal health budgets approved by local NHS teams

The Guardian goes all Daily Mail.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 9:20 am

HindleA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... are_btn_tw

NHS health budgets funding holidays, Nintendo consoles and a pedalo ride
Investigation by medical publication uncovers unusual uses of some personal health budgets approved by local NHS teams

The Guardian goes all Daily Mail.

Featured on the BBC Radio news too. Let's ban it all, that'll save money.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 9:23 am

Good-morning, everyone.

Soap opera quality of some of the Guardian headlines is off-putting.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 9:26 am

Morning.

@owenjbennett
.@Nigel_Farage saying he 'absolutely' won't be seeking to lead the No campaign. Pretty sure that's the first time he's ruled it out

Robert Hutton ‏@RobDotHutton 1h1 hour ago
Robert Hutton retweeted Owen Bennett
I'm sure that he could be persuaded to change his mind... #unresignation

Robin Brant ‏@robindbrant 1h1 hour ago
.@Nigel_Farage claims @UKIP voters account for 60% of the votes the 'no' camp needs to win #EUreferendum

Robin Brant ‏@robindbrant 1h1 hour ago
Hmmm not sensing much love for @SuzanneEvans1 bid to be @UKIP London mayoral candidate from party leader...

Robin Brant ‏@robindbrant 1h1 hour ago
...as @Nigel_Farage slaps down dep chair on @BBCRadio4 saying she was 'just wrong' over immigration as #EUreferendum main issue

Robin Brant retweeted
Suzanne Evans ‏@SuzanneEvans1 1h1 hour ago
I didn't say Nigel was divisive or that immigration shouldn't be a major part of the No campaign. Quite the opposite. #R4today stirring.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 9:44 am

I can rest easy now, having done my one good deed for the day. Stopping off for fuel I was a little bewildered by a note adhered to the pump display advising no cards and to pay in the kiosk with sellotape across the card slot. Momentarily I thought I'd have to go to another pump even though I had enough cash and can pay by card anyway. Dumb! I then proceeded with my purchase by removing the filler and waiting. Nothing happened, 'Mmm which button to press with nothing to advise? Try this one'. Result.

After fuelling I reached into the car for a pen and drew a big arrow pointing toward the correct button, advising the attendants when I went to pay. Of course they thanked me, despite showing my ignorance to which I replied, "Don't thank me I'm doing you out of a job, not that they pay you enough anyway." On second thoughts there must still be one to do.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 9:48 am

Everything they touch! No prizes for guessing who I mean.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 9:52 am

Good morfternoon.

10am: Yvette Cooper, the Labour leadership candidate and shadow home secretary, gives a speech on the refugee crisis. (Politics Blog, Guardian)

I shall be interested to hear what she has to say. And how she frames it. It could\should be quite revealing.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 9:52 am

citizenJA wrote:Good-morning, everyone.

Soap opera quality of some of the Guardian headlines is off-putting.

Good morning citizen. Nice to have you back.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 9:54 am

Anne Begg retweeted
Scotsman ‏@TheScotsman 1h1 hour ago
Welfare reform ‘doesn’t lead to higher employment’, according to a new report: http://bit.ly/1JyYk6V" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anne Begg retweeted
Paul Lewis ‏@paullewismoney 32m32 minutes ago
For those looking for original of the 'welfare reforms don't boost employment' report http://goo.gl/gXNJ6d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; thanks to @colinwforster

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 10:03 am

Last post before my little break - nothing to do with politics, but infinitely more important.

September is worldwide Recovery Month.

I am 14 years and 9 months sober, by the grace of a higher power and the fellowship of my peers.

Of people like me, Friedrich Von Bodelschwingh Senior, a theologian, politician, and helper of the poor, said this -
"When you meet a sober alcoholic, you meet a hero.
His mortal enemy slumbers within him; he can never outrun his disability.
He makes his way through a world of alcohol abuse, in an environment that doesn't understand him.
Society, puffed up with shameful ignorance, looks on him with contempt;
As if he were a second-class citizen because he dares to swim against the stream of alcohol.
But you must know:
No better people are made than this."

That has been my experience - the best people I have known are like this.

As true now as it was more than 100 years ago when that was written.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 10:08 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

10am: Yvette Cooper, the Labour leadership candidate and shadow home secretary, gives a speech on the refugee crisis. (Politics Blog, Guardian)
I shall be interested to hear what she has to say. And how she frames it. It could\should be quite revealing.

I think she'll be good on this - judging by her statement the other day.

Last night I wikid 'Boat people' - wanting to try and understand how we could have moved away from being able to see and describe waves of desperate people fleeing war and terror as 'people' or 'refugees' .... to calling them 'swarms' 'hordes' 'illegal migrants' 'cockroaches' and such.

It's worth taking a look. The resolution to the refugee crisis as a result of the Vietnam war was worldwide ... we don't seem able to get Europe to function co-operatively - let alone seek wider involvement in helping the people affected. Shameful for Europe.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 10:13 am

Anne Begg retweeted
Jonathan Portes ‏@jdportes 1h1 hour ago
Benefit sanctions: comprehensive briefing and analysis of DWP statistics by David Webster: http://blog.spicker.uk/wp-content/uploa ... g-2015.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 10:22 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:Good-morning, everyone.

Soap opera quality of some of the Guardian headlines is off-putting.
Good morning citizen. Nice to have you back.

Thank you!

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 10:56 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:...
Anne Begg retweeted
Paul Lewis ‏@paullewismoney 32m32 minutes ago
For those looking for original of the 'welfare reforms don't boost employment' report http://goo.gl/gXNJ6d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; thanks to @colinwforster

Am currently scanning this one, rr2, and remembered that during one of my rants I stated similar to this.

But there will also be cases where a claimant stops claiming because of the threat of a sanction. In this case, they have in effect imposed the sanction on themselves, and the result is the same as an 'adverse decision'.

Against advice I did not claim ESA but was still subject to JSA sanction and am 100% sure that the threat of sanction exacerbated my depression thereby prolonging my condition, having seen my rapid rise since. I did go down to the DWP office once after finding no money and saw the disabilty advisor (not sure of the title). I was staggering dangerously close to sanction some weeks depending on the severity of my condition. The fact is I very nearly did not bother going, expecting the lack of funds to be one such sanction so got a rope ready. It was only an afterthought that prompted me to go down before taking such drastic action.

I just said I'd received no payment and only overheard a little of what was said on the telephone. It was only looking back that I realised that I may have been sanctioned as I heard her stressing I was a vulnerable claimant. I was never told if I had narrowly avoided it by her actions but nevertheless it was always stressed thereafter what a fine line I was treading.

Hope that makes sense. Back to the document now - a speed read while I wait for a parcel delivery; shall copy interesting extracts for both here and the G later, to allow ephe her break. Mind you I was also thinking of advising Andrew Sparrow of my thoughts on accessing Profile Pages with the lack of YTU, but have been put off visiting the G for now judging by the nature of the articles mentioned here.

Edit: removed a repeated 'once'

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 11:00 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Anne Begg retweeted
Jonathan Portes ‏@jdportes 1h1 hour ago
Benefit sanctions: comprehensive briefing and analysis of DWP statistics by David Webster: http://blog.spicker.uk/wp-content/uploa ... g-2015.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Everyone should read the appendix, page 31, statement by a claimant.
How glad I am that I had sufficient NI contributions and didn't need to sign on, when I was in a similar situation.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 11:21 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

10am: Yvette Cooper, the Labour leadership candidate and shadow home secretary, gives a speech on the refugee crisis. (Politics Blog, Guardian)
I shall be interested to hear what she has to say. And how she frames it. It could\should be quite revealing.

The worry with Cooper is surely that she might "frame" things differently now to how she could do if she actually wins the leadership?

Whatever else you say about JC (and there's plenty) he isn't going to do that much.......

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 11:24 am

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-58576869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Reading the outright hostility towards Andy Burnham from Corbyn supporters below this article is hugely demoralizing. I have been a Labour party voter and supporter my entire life. I was a huge Kinnock fan, deeply admired John Smith, tolerated Blair, sympathized with Brown and was re-inspired by Ed Miliband. I voted for Andy Burnham because I have been impressed with his performance as shadow health secretary and am enthusiastic about his proposals to combine health and social care. I feel he has the right vision for this country and the ability to be a good leader. When I read comments that attack Burnham so unmercilously and saying he belongs in the Tory party, I can only read that as also applying to me and it's deeply upsetting. I remain bemused by those on the left who prefer to attack Labour politicians and Labour supporters than attack the Tories and the right-wing establishment. Do they not understand that the social democratic movement that Ed has aligned Labour to and has won the support from people like me involves changing things from inside the system, hence skilled politicians like Burnham end up seemingly part of the system. We have to trust they will remember who they represent and put our faith in their integrity as many of us did with Ed. Little can be done from without. I am clearly going to have to avoid the G for a while. At least it is unlikely Corbyn himself will be as divisive as some of his followers, after all he remained loyal to Labour throughout the Blair years, just as I did. We can't be so very different!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 11:33 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

10am: Yvette Cooper, the Labour leadership candidate and shadow home secretary, gives a speech on the refugee crisis. (Politics Blog, Guardian)
I shall be interested to hear what she has to say. And how she frames it. It could\should be quite revealing.
The worry with Cooper is surely that she might "frame" things differently now to how she could do if she actually wins the leadership?

Whatever else you say about JC (and there's plenty) he isn't going to do that much.......

True. But so might anyone (except, probably, Jeremy Corbyn).

However, if she goes for appearing more "leftish" in order to improve her leadership chances, I don't think she could get away with, should she win, retreating from such a position - whereas the opposite (ie right to left) would, I think, be an easier thing to do (although not so popular to appear "rightish" just now in terms of the leadership election). Either way, I think she will be committing herself to the stance that she now takes. So, with all that in mind, I shall await with interest . . .

Does that make sense?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 11:43 am

Electoral Commission tells Cameron to change EU referendum question

Nicholas Watt @nicholaswatt

No 10: @David_Cameron accepts new wording from Electoral Commission on EU referendum. Amendment to bill will be tabled in autumn
11:36 AM - 1 Sep 2015 (Politics live, Guardian)

Can't seem to get anything right, can he?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 11:52 am

Re the above (EU Referendum)

The new question is much better, I think. It's much more stark and specific, and will focus people's mind more. The original wording was a bit too, er, "Ukippy", if you see what I mean. The Electoral Commission has probably done David Cameron a big favour.

(Original wording: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union?”

The responses would be ‘Yes’ / ‘No’

New wording: Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?’

The responses would be ‘Remain a member of the European Union’ / ‘Leave the European Union’.)

Edit

And close brackets . . . .

Edit (again)

And quote marks

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 12:47 pm

Willow904 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-58576869

Reading the outright hostility towards Andy Burnham from Corbyn supporters below this article is hugely demoralizing. I have been a Labour party voter and supporter my entire life. I was a huge Kinnock fan, deeply admired John Smith, tolerated Blair, sympathized with Brown and was re-inspired by Ed Miliband. I voted for Andy Burnham because I have been impressed with his performance as shadow health secretary and am enthusiastic about his proposals to combine health and social care. I feel he has the right vision for this country and the ability to be a good leader. When I read comments that attack Burnham so unmercilously and saying he belongs in the Tory party, I can only read that as also applying to me and it's deeply upsetting. I remain bemused by those on the left who prefer to attack Labour politicians and Labour supporters than attack the Tories and the right-wing establishment. Do they not understand that the social democratic movement that Ed has aligned Labour to and has won the support from people like me involves changing things from inside the system, hence skilled politicians like Burnham end up seemingly part of the system. We have to trust they will remember who they represent and put our faith in their integrity as many of us did with Ed. Little can be done from without. I am clearly going to have to avoid the G for a while. At least it is unlikely Corbyn himself will be as divisive as some of his followers, after all he remained loyal to Labour throughout the Blair years, just as I did. We can't be so very different!

Not bothering to look, but I can fairly safely predict several of the worst offenders will not actually be Labour supporters (or, indeed, genuine Corbyn backers)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 12:52 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

10am: Yvette Cooper, the Labour leadership candidate and shadow home secretary, gives a speech on the refugee crisis. (Politics Blog, Guardian)
I shall be interested to hear what she has to say. And how she frames it. It could\should be quite revealing.
I think she'll be good on this - judging by her statement the other day.

Last night I wikid 'Boat people' - wanting to try and understand how we could have moved away from being able to see and describe waves of desperate people fleeing war and terror as 'people' or 'refugees' .... to calling them 'swarms' 'hordes' 'illegal migrants' 'cockroaches' and such.

It's worth taking a look. The resolution to the refugee crisis as a result of the Vietnam war was worldwide ... we don't seem able to get Europe to function co-operatively - let alone seek wider involvement in helping the people affected. Shameful for Europe.

Oh Lord I remember the Vietnamese boat people. We only saw it on TV, but it was horrific. We don't learn do we.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 12:52 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-58576869

Reading the outright hostility towards Andy Burnham from Corbyn supporters below this article is hugely demoralizing. I have been a Labour party voter and supporter my entire life. I was a huge Kinnock fan, deeply admired John Smith, tolerated Blair, sympathized with Brown and was re-inspired by Ed Miliband. I voted for Andy Burnham because I have been impressed with his performance as shadow health secretary and am enthusiastic about his proposals to combine health and social care. I feel he has the right vision for this country and the ability to be a good leader. When I read comments that attack Burnham so unmercilously and saying he belongs in the Tory party, I can only read that as also applying to me and it's deeply upsetting. I remain bemused by those on the left who prefer to attack Labour politicians and Labour supporters than attack the Tories and the right-wing establishment. Do they not understand that the social democratic movement that Ed has aligned Labour to and has won the support from people like me involves changing things from inside the system, hence skilled politicians like Burnham end up seemingly part of the system. We have to trust they will remember who they represent and put our faith in their integrity as many of us did with Ed. Little can be done from without. I am clearly going to have to avoid the G for a while. At least it is unlikely Corbyn himself will be as divisive as some of his followers, after all he remained loyal to Labour throughout the Blair years, just as I did. We can't be so very different!
Not bothering to look, but I can fairly safely predict several of the worst offenders will not actually be Labour supporters (or, indeed, genuine Corbyn backers)

It's sometimes hard to work out whether posters on Cif are Tories, Kippers or Nats.

Agree that the abuse of Burnham seems completely over the top.

Have engaged in err...a wee bit of mudslinging of my own over the years, but current levels of bitterness & abuse seem scary.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 1:04 pm

David Miliband's 'heartache'.
When will the media ever let it go ?

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 1:06 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:... Not bothering to look, but I can fairly safely predict several of the worst offenders will not actually be Labour supporters (or, indeed, genuine Corbyn backers)

You may well be right, Anatoly, it's generally known amongst certain circles that Conservatives use sockpuppets to bolster their narrative, so will likely wrankle their opposition to cause disunity. Some of their antics should be clearly exposed in the msm and peak-time viewing. Wishful thinking, utopian.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 1:14 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-58576869

Reading the outright hostility towards Andy Burnham from Corbyn supporters below this article is hugely demoralizing. I have been a Labour party voter and supporter my entire life. I was a huge Kinnock fan, deeply admired John Smith, tolerated Blair, sympathized with Brown and was re-inspired by Ed Miliband. I voted for Andy Burnham because I have been impressed with his performance as shadow health secretary and am enthusiastic about his proposals to combine health and social care. I feel he has the right vision for this country and the ability to be a good leader. When I read comments that attack Burnham so unmercilously and saying he belongs in the Tory party, I can only read that as also applying to me and it's deeply upsetting. I remain bemused by those on the left who prefer to attack Labour politicians and Labour supporters than attack the Tories and the right-wing establishment. Do they not understand that the social democratic movement that Ed has aligned Labour to and has won the support from people like me involves changing things from inside the system, hence skilled politicians like Burnham end up seemingly part of the system. We have to trust they will remember who they represent and put our faith in their integrity as many of us did with Ed. Little can be done from without. I am clearly going to have to avoid the G for a while. At least it is unlikely Corbyn himself will be as divisive as some of his followers, after all he remained loyal to Labour throughout the Blair years, just as I did. We can't be so very different!
Not bothering to look, but I can fairly safely predict several of the worst offenders will not actually be Labour supporters (or, indeed, genuine Corbyn backers)

The thought did occur to me, which is why it would probably better to stay away but sometimes I can't resist! The aggressive opinionated tone of comments first started appearing during the Scottish referendum (it was when I first sought refuge here at flythnest!) but had been a bit better of late. I shall have to stick to the economics blog, they're far more polite over there.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 1:15 pm

@ohsocynical

I once got particularly annoyed with someone called hanoibaby who kept returning under different guises at the G, ohso. Remember him? I challenged him to explain his name since my aunt by (first) marriage (married my wife's uncle) was a Vietnamese refugee, smuggled out in her teens after her immediate family were all killed. He didn't answer the question, just carried on in his usual perverse manner.

As an aside the Vietnam War was why my brother and I refused to go when our father got a job in LA. You should have seen the pictures of the house we were to get. Thankfully our mother finally changed her mind and backed our decision. I was 15 or 16 at the time and rightly or wrongly we feared being drafted should we have become naturalised.

I trust Mr. ohso hasn't had his marching orders from Theresa.

Edit: inserted 'annoyed'. I had to be particularly something after all.
Edit: replaced 'her' with 'my wife's' for clarity

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 1:21 pm

People like Nick Cohen don't help.

Nick Cohen ‏@NickCohen4 2h2 hours ago
If Labour's clowns make Corbyn leader after this speech from Cooper, they deserve every defeat he will bring them

In case he hadn't noticed, she's made the speech only just over a week before the voting deadline. So people are 'clowns' because they didn't predict her performance today and vote as he would have us vote ?

Strewth.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 1:26 pm

yahyah wrote:People like Nick Cohen don't help.

Nick Cohen ‏@NickCohen4 2h2 hours ago
If Labour's clowns make Corbyn leader after this speech from Cooper, they deserve every defeat he will bring them

In case he hadn't noticed, she's made the speech only just over a week before the voting deadline. So people are 'clowns' because they didn't predict her performance today and vote as he would have us vote ?

Strewth.

Yes - rather a loutish outburst.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 1:29 pm

& maybe if Cooper had been a bit more impressive earlier on in the campaign I might have voted for her.

My husband was a real fan and intended to cast his vote for her, he used to cheer when she popped up to make soundbites during the run up to the general election. Then she seemed to morph into something less impressive during the last few months, in our opinion.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 1:33 pm

Also, what does he mean by 'if Labour's clowns make Corbyn leader after this speech by Cooper' ?

That all the votes already cast should be thrown in the bin ?
Does he understand what an election is, and how long the voting process has been open for ?

This man is paid money to spout his opinions on politics and other matters- if daft stuff like that is what is expected of a media commentator I'd do it for free.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 1:34 pm

Time to go and do something else before blood pressure rises too high.
Curry making and sewing, fragrant and calming.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 1:52 pm

In stark contrast to Cohen's deranged yobbery, today's piece by Steve Richards is essential reading

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 1:57 pm

yahyah wrote:& maybe if Cooper had been a bit more impressive earlier on in the campaign I might have voted for her.

My husband was a real fan and intended to cast his vote for her, he used to cheer when she popped up to make soundbites during the run up to the general election. Then she seemed to morph into something less impressive during the last few months, in our opinion.

I agree Cooper has only just started to come alive at the end of the campaign. I was waiting for her to impress me and she did a little early on, but then it trailed off. Was there some agreement to take a campaign break so Burnham and Cooper could spend some time with their children over the summer holidays? Corbyn, with help from the press, kept his profile up throughout in a way the others didn't.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 2:04 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:In stark contrast to Cohen's deranged yobbery, today's piece by Steve Richards is essential reading

He's nailed it.

It needed something to shake it up; it got a political volcano.

Without that volcano, one of those early candidates would have won to waves of indifference. Probably we would have had a re-run of the last five years: media Blairites and Tory journalists tweeting around-the-clock disdain, internal briefings of despair from Shadow Cabinet members, desperate contortions from the new leader to please critics – acts that would make him or her weaker still.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 80133.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 01 Sep, 2015 2:12 pm

Yvette Coopers speech
http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/y ... ZyK2I7hwBg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;