Tuesday 1st.September

A home from home
Forum rules
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 15684
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Willow904 wrote:
yahyah wrote:& maybe if Cooper had been a bit more impressive earlier on in the campaign I might have voted for her.

My husband was a real fan and intended to cast his vote for her, he used to cheer when she popped up to make soundbites during the run up to the general election. Then she seemed to morph into something less impressive during the last few months, in our opinion.
I agree Cooper has only just started to come alive at the end of the campaign. I was waiting for her to impress me and she did a little early on, but then it trailed off. Was there some agreement to take a campaign break so Burnham and Cooper could spend some time with their children over the summer holidays? Corbyn, with help from the press, kept his profile up throughout in a way the others didn't.
I think it is more that Cooper very much misjudged what was needed at the start of the campaign.

(I remember that godawful speech when she layed into Ed for being "anti-business" - whatever that near-meaningless, depressingly trite bit of hackery actually means)

So did the other "mainstream" candidates, tbf - probably none more so than Kendall.

Which leads me to say that Liz's piece on LabourList today is actually rather good - certainly well argued and thought provoking.

Ah, what might have been........??
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by PorFavor »

Icelanders call on government to take in more Syrian refugees

12,000 in country, which currently accepts just 50 refugees, sign open letter with many saying they would house Syrians in their own homes (Guardian)
I thought that this might go some way to cheering up ohsocynical. Heartwarming. Also, Yvette Cooper spoke well today.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/s ... n-refugees
ohsocynical
Prime Minister
Posts: 10937
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:10 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by ohsocynical »

Australia and Canada. Two countries that didn't suffer like the rest of the world when the banks crashed. Both voted in far right governments, and both are now beginning to struggle.


‏@BBCBusiness
Canadian economy enters recession http://bbc.in/1MZZDyf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
ohsocynical
Prime Minister
Posts: 10937
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:10 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by ohsocynical »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
yahyah wrote:& maybe if Cooper had been a bit more impressive earlier on in the campaign I might have voted for her.

My husband was a real fan and intended to cast his vote for her, he used to cheer when she popped up to make soundbites during the run up to the general election. Then she seemed to morph into something less impressive during the last few months, in our opinion.
I agree Cooper has only just started to come alive at the end of the campaign. I was waiting for her to impress me and she did a little early on, but then it trailed off. Was there some agreement to take a campaign break so Burnham and Cooper could spend some time with their children over the summer holidays? Corbyn, with help from the press, kept his profile up throughout in a way the others didn't.
I think it is more that Cooper very much misjudged what was needed at the start of the campaign.

(I remember that godawful speech when she layed into Ed for being "anti-business" - whatever that near-meaningless, depressingly trite bit of hackery actually means)

So did the other "mainstream" candidates, tbf - probably none more so than Kendall.

Which leads me to say that Liz's piece on LabourList today is actually rather good - certainly well argued and thought provoking.

Ah, what might have been........??

I see it as starting off saying what they really feel and meant, but are now toning it down it the hopes of getting more votes.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
StephenDolan
First Secretary of State
Posts: 3725
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:15 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by StephenDolan »

Impressed by Cooper's speech. Just like when she aggressively defended the Labour government's spending I found myself nodding and thinking, "Yes, this is what I want to see, direct and confident outlining of a viewpoint. Don't play defensive strokes, strike back hard, show confidence". It's a shame that this hasn't been on display for more of the (admittedly long) campaign.
ohsocynical
Prime Minister
Posts: 10937
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:10 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by ohsocynical »

Andy Burnham's speech.
If you’re thinking of voting for Jeremy Corbyn, here are my promises to you
Don't give up on wanting big changes in Labour party, but don't give up on winning the 2020 general election either

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 80038.html
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by HindleA »

ephemerid wrote:Last post before my little break - nothing to do with politics, but infinitely more important.

September is worldwide Recovery Month.

I am 14 years and 9 months sober, by the grace of a higher power and the fellowship of my peers.

Of people like me, Friedrich Von Bodelschwingh Senior, a theologian, politician, and helper of the poor, said this -
"When you meet a sober alcoholic, you meet a hero.
His mortal enemy slumbers within him; he can never outrun his disability.
He makes his way through a world of alcohol abuse, in an environment that doesn't understand him.
Society, puffed up with shameful ignorance, looks on him with contempt;
As if he were a second-class citizen because he dares to swim against the stream of alcohol.
But you must know:
No better people are made than this."

That has been my experience - the best people I have known are like this.

As true now as it was more than 100 years ago when that was written.


My better half's fear was that I would start drinking again,we met some years after my stopping.I don't think I ever fully assuaged that fear I take your post as a sign she is watching and thank you for it.
StephenDolan
First Secretary of State
Posts: 3725
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 10:15 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by StephenDolan »

ohsocynical wrote:Australia and Canada. Two countries that didn't suffer like the rest of the world when the banks crashed. Both voted in far right governments, and both are now beginning to struggle.


‏@BBCBusiness
Canadian economy enters recession http://bbc.in/1MZZDyf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Burnham criticises Harper.

http://aptn.ca/news/2015/08/31/mrs-univ ... en-harper/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
yahyah
Prime Minister
Posts: 7535
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 8:29 am
Location: Being rained on in west Wales

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by yahyah »

''In England, the debate had moved so far to the right that when Corbyn utters views, similar in some respects to those of Roy Jenkins and the SDP, he is seen as an extremist.

In contrast, when David Cameron and George Osborne follow Thatcherite policies from the 1980s – from the “right to buy” to sweeping spending cuts – they are hailed by most of the media as smart centrists. If Corbyn is “extreme” for returning to the 1980s, then so too are they.''
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 80133.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, Richards definitely hits a few nails firmly on the head in that piece.
Just wish some Labour people would start seeing things more clearly.
It will be a disaster if they make it one, all that shrieking against Corbyn will be used by our political enemies.
Farron's poised in the wings to try and take advantage, and will if anti-Corbyn Labour people give him the ammunition.
User avatar
AngryAsWell
Prime Minister
Posts: 5852
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:35 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by AngryAsWell »

Channel 4 Labour hustings LIVE: Follow updates as leadership candidates clash with 9 days to go

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ch ... ve-6362339" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Repeated at 7pm tonight (I think, only seen that in a tweet)
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6188
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by gilsey »

HindleA wrote:
ephemerid wrote:Last post before my little break - nothing to do with politics, but infinitely more important.

September is worldwide Recovery Month.

I am 14 years and 9 months sober, by the grace of a higher power and the fellowship of my peers.

Of people like me, Friedrich Von Bodelschwingh Senior, a theologian, politician, and helper of the poor, said this -
"When you meet a sober alcoholic, you meet a hero.
His mortal enemy slumbers within him; he can never outrun his disability.
He makes his way through a world of alcohol abuse, in an environment that doesn't understand him.
Society, puffed up with shameful ignorance, looks on him with contempt;
As if he were a second-class citizen because he dares to swim against the stream of alcohol.
But you must know:
No better people are made than this."

That has been my experience - the best people I have known are like this.

As true now as it was more than 100 years ago when that was written.
My better half's fear was that I would start drinking again,we met some years after my stopping.I don't think I ever fully assuaged that fear I take your post as a sign she is watching and thank you for it.
Most people who drink little or no alcohol know a bit about how that feels, it's bad enough when you're not addicted to the stuff. You are heroes indeed.
Last edited by gilsey on Tue 01 Sep, 2015 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
yahyah
Prime Minister
Posts: 7535
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 8:29 am
Location: Being rained on in west Wales

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by yahyah »

Labour should change the process.

Why not a prolonged period of tv, radio & live hustings, then issue the ballot papers and have a two week window for voting ?
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6188
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by gilsey »

Paul Mason again.
What unites the new movements of the left?

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/paul- ... -1.2335322" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
it was the Bush-Blair generation of politicians who derided their opponents as the “reality-based community”. Bush adviser Karl Rove famously told journalists: “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality . . . We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”
Nothing demonstrates the scale and rapidity of the historical change we’re living through better than the sudden inability of politicians attached to the neoliberal project to do exactly this: to create reality. Once powerful people are becoming bystanders to reality.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
yahyah
Prime Minister
Posts: 7535
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 8:29 am
Location: Being rained on in west Wales

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by yahyah »

Did anyone watch the live stream ?
Wondering what this meant, day of reckoning.

Paul Mason ‏@paulmasonnews 1h1 hour ago
Kendall - swerves question of prosecuting Blair. Wants "day of reckoning" as party.
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6188
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by gilsey »

A day of reckoning for Chilcot, then move on.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by HindleA »

I half expect the premium bond that she has had for thirty years,and never won as far as I know/recall will win in the next year.Strange someone not here can.
yahyah
Prime Minister
Posts: 7535
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 8:29 am
Location: Being rained on in west Wales

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by yahyah »

Thanks Gilsey.
User avatar
rebeccariots2
Prime Minister
Posts: 14038
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:20 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by rebeccariots2 »

HindleA wrote:I half expect the premium bond that she has had for thirty years,and never won as far as I know/recall will win in the next year.Strange someone not here can.
Here's hoping HindleA. She really would seem to still be looking out for you if that happens.
Working on the wild side.
utopiandreams
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2306
Joined: Mon 16 Mar, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by utopiandreams »

Just noticed from the Clinton email releases, Cameron and Clegg 'snobbish and arrogant' – emails to Clinton (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015 ... ry-clinton). Hardly comes as a surprise, eh? Typical public school boys.

Talking of surprises, was just coming up a side street when a blue car stopped ahead of me at the end of the road. I'd held back because of a car parked on the opposite side of the road and began to pull forward as he was pulling off when he suddenly braked, so did likewise. An almost full bodied piece of tattoo artwork about 20 possibly 30 years my junior began heading toward me indicating to me to wind my window down; I duly obliged. Talk about finger jabbing and shouting directly into my face, something about my having frightened his wife by hanging onto her bumper from an adjacent road (where I live actually - a semi-main road) and along the one he was about to head off in the opposite direction

I was rather perplexed as it really didn't sound like me. Yes I tend to drive faster than perhaps I should on open roads, but not about town and I never tailgate. Personally I get angry about those that do, not so much because they can't react to the vehicle ahead, one assumes they're paying extra attention in that regard, but because they're likely to be unaware of other hazards by so doing. Unperturbed I naturally told him he must be mistaken as it really didn't sound like me. Slightly taken aback but still aggressively he said if it were to happen again blah, blah... again I repeated, "Honest mate that doesn't sound like me" and off he went.

Lucky I guess that I had held back in the circumstances and that he left it at that because easy going I may be but intimidated I am not. Had he not stopped his fuming my door would likely have crashed firmly into him and he certainly looked the stronger, possibly even pumped up and I'd likely still have been struggling to release myself from the seatbelt. Oh well...

Coincidentally it reminds me a car chase through the centre of Burton on Trent. Two cars had ended up chasing me over the Old Trent Bridge and down High Street at speeds of up to 90 mph on a Sunday lunch. Reverse lock cornering from High Street into Station Street and such like. No traffic to speak of apart from buses, the drivers busy on their intercoms. We came to a halt at the bottom of the station bridge when two buses blocked the road ahead of us, shortly followed by two behind.

I was immediately confronted by the drivers of both vehicles whilst my wuss of a passenger ran onto one of the buses ahead. It had all kicked off when I was leaving the Royal Oak otherwise known as the Sump after one pint (honest) before starting my shift, my passenger (and landlord I guess) asked if I could give him and two young ladies a lift into town. Apparently there had been a bust up with one of the ladies. I asked that he calm down which was when he tried to kick me through my open window; fancied himself as a bit of kungy. I just drove off but he'd caught his foot in my door. Such is life and I thought no more about it until I saw him approaching quickly as I waited at the lights at the end of Newton Road; he had another go at me through the window as the light s changed.

I saw the other car, a Jag overtake him on the bridge at high speed, which is when I really sped up when advised by my passengers that he was from Birmingham and a bit gun crazy and I only had a Mark III Cortina. All I bloody needed on a peaceful Sunday afternoon.

Anyway two guys in my face one trying straight fingers for the eyes, which I obviously avoided, I value them too much, when I tried to calm things by advising the police would be along as the bus driver were on their intercoms and we had better leave down these adjacent side streets. ';And so it was some few minutes later, "Base to Alpha Three, come in please. Return to base, Alpha Three". I did as I was told and after explanation was sent to the Police Station.

The offensive lad caught up with me several days later, pretty angry too because he thought I'd grassed him up. On the contrary I explained the bus drivers had all our numbers. He treated me with respect thereafter and asked whether I was scared as had others, he had a bit of a reputation around town you see. Not particularly apart from hearing your mate possibly had a gun. I've no idea whether it made the local press, nobody approached me. As it happens it was ohso's reference to Cameron the wuss that reminded me of it the other day... and now I am reminded yet again. I guess the story had wanted telling after all.

Postscript: me tailgating? Never. I've just realised I lie, never unless that is... a track day. A schoolmate in the same village as us was sponsored racing driver and I worked weekends on the forecourt of a quality car, mainly sportscars, dealership. I guess that was the start of my learning to drive, but quite frankly couldn't afford the tyres not being sponsored myself. Just had the odd go.

Edit: misplace 'and', 'And I thought I'd proof read for a change!
Last edited by utopiandreams on Tue 01 Sep, 2015 6:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
yahyah
Prime Minister
Posts: 7535
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 8:29 am
Location: Being rained on in west Wales

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by yahyah »

The Mirror have given the Channel 4 hustings win to Corbyn, not their endorsee Burnham.
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by PorFavor »

Just to confirm AngryAsWell's post re the timing of the repeat of the hustings -

Channel 4, 7pm.



Edited

Bold
utopiandreams
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2306
Joined: Mon 16 Mar, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by utopiandreams »

PorFavor wrote:Just to confirm AngryAsWell's post re the timing of the repeat of the hustings -

Channel 4, 7pm.
Thanks, PorFavor, I have it scheduled. I think Cathy Newman (I hope that's how she spells her name - too busy to Google - like heck I am - too lazy to Google) mentioned it at the end of the news yesterday.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
yahyah
Prime Minister
Posts: 7535
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 8:29 am
Location: Being rained on in west Wales

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by yahyah »

Was wondering where the word hustings came from, and this from the BBC provides some background.

The Vocabularist: Where did the word 'hustings' come from?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazin ... r-30187359" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
yahyah
Prime Minister
Posts: 7535
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 8:29 am
Location: Being rained on in west Wales

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by yahyah »

Thankfully the Labour leadership hustings don't take after the Eatanswill election in Pickwick Papers.

Image
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by PorFavor »

@yahyah

Thank you for that interesting bit of information - and the wonderful artwork! Although I've read "The Pickwick Papers" several times, somehow the use of the word "hustings" in the book escaped my memory. Brilliant stuff.
User avatar
rebeccariots2
Prime Minister
Posts: 14038
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:20 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by rebeccariots2 »

I think there's probably a new political bingo type game to be played ... write the headline before the MSM do. This Private Eye piece is, of course, about Corbyn ... but it could be virtually any Labour politican ... or, depending on the paper, SNP or other party spokesperson. Find the most extreme, contextless and blunt interpretation possible and bingo, there's your headline.
How To Speak Corbyn A Headline Writers Guide.jpg
How To Speak Corbyn A Headline Writers Guide.jpg (77.67 KiB) Viewed 4351 times
Working on the wild side.
Tubby Isaacs
Prime Minister
Posts: 9949
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Apologies to YahYah for putting the shocking Escobar picture straight up. Better to link, as you say.

The Guardian's in anti-HS2 mode again, I see.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... ampaigners" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's pretty rich of the opponents to attack it for requiring line closures when their alternative is updating existing lines.

183 weekend part-closures isn't actually all that much, given that it's taking 16 years to build. A glance at Network Rail's site shows pretty serious line closures every weekend.
Tubby Isaacs
Prime Minister
Posts: 9949
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

ohsocynical wrote:Australia and Canada. Two countries that didn't suffer like the rest of the world when the banks crashed. Both voted in far right governments, and both are now beginning to struggle.


‏@BBCBusiness
Canadian economy enters recession http://bbc.in/1MZZDyf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I noted this in the article.

"The last time the country was in recession was during the financial crisis of 2008-09. As an oil exporting country, Canada has been hit by a fall in the price of the commodity."

Hmmm, what other country would have come into that category?
utopiandreams
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2306
Joined: Mon 16 Mar, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by utopiandreams »

rebeccariots2 wrote:I think there's probably a new political bingo type game to be played ... write the headline before the MSM do. This Private Eye piece is, of course, about Corbyn ... but it could be virtually any Labour politican ... or, depending on the paper, SNP or other party spokesperson. Find the most extreme, contextless and blunt interpretation possible and bingo, there's your headline...
Thanks, rr2. A tip for those who don't know. Right-click image and select 'View Image' or such like depending on your Browser, in new tab if given the option; you can zoom the result. If not on new tab remember to Back Page and restore zoom settings rather than close tab.

Watching Channel 4+1 now.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by citizenJA »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... t-58576869

Reading the outright hostility towards Andy Burnham from Corbyn supporters below this article is hugely demoralizing. I have been a Labour party voter and supporter my entire life. I was a huge Kinnock fan, deeply admired John Smith, tolerated Blair, sympathized with Brown and was re-inspired by Ed Miliband. I voted for Andy Burnham because I have been impressed with his performance as shadow health secretary and am enthusiastic about his proposals to combine health and social care. I feel he has the right vision for this country and the ability to be a good leader. When I read comments that attack Burnham so unmercilously and saying he belongs in the Tory party, I can only read that as also applying to me and it's deeply upsetting. I remain bemused by those on the left who prefer to attack Labour politicians and Labour supporters than attack the Tories and the right-wing establishment. Do they not understand that the social democratic movement that Ed has aligned Labour to and has won the support from people like me involves changing things from inside the system, hence skilled politicians like Burnham end up seemingly part of the system. We have to trust they will remember who they represent and put our faith in their integrity as many of us did with Ed. Little can be done from without. I am clearly going to have to avoid the G for a while. At least it is unlikely Corbyn himself will be as divisive as some of his followers, after all he remained loyal to Labour throughout the Blair years, just as I did. We can't be so very different!
Not bothering to look, but I can fairly safely predict several of the worst offenders will not actually be Labour supporters (or, indeed, genuine Corbyn backers)
Agreed - I'd meant to respond to this earlier but my day had other ideas for me.

All four Labour Members of Parliament will remain Labour MPs regardless of which one is elected by Labour members and supporters. I've no problem with just criticism of any of the four - Burnham, Cooper, Corbyn or Kendall. They'll continue representing their constituencies and the country as Labour party MPs. I'm probably not as knowledgeable as others here about the history and contemporary operations of the Labour party; I lack sophistication. I trust the people eligible and willing to cast their vote for the next Labour party leader. I will continue to support Labour regardless of the leadership election outcome.

Getting rained on today was no problem.
The sun came out when the rain stopped.
The air felt clean and I walked many miles today without pain.
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 15167
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:18 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by PorFavor »

Re the hustings on Channel 4 -

Don't like the look of yours much. (Whoever you are and whoever you're supporting.)
utopiandreams
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2306
Joined: Mon 16 Mar, 2015 4:20 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by utopiandreams »

From what I've seen so far of the leadership contenders there seems to be more consensus than differences whatever their tone (pre-unilateralism that they're only just getting to).

As for what I said of public schoolboys earlier, perhaps that was a bit of a generalisation. I've known plenty not like that.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
User avatar
Willow904
Prime Minister
Posts: 7220
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 2:40 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by Willow904 »

Have just watched the C4 debate (some of). Very interesting. I'm glad I didn't put Cooper first, now, or I'd be regretting it. Her obsession with QE was embarrassing as Corbyn clearly stated he would also be willing to fund his investment bank (which I'm not aware any of the other candidates have disagreed with in principle) with government borrowing if more appropriate, as it would be at this point of time. She's right about inflation concerns with QE but the dire warnings about borrowing was pure Osbornomics and she is better than muddling up borrowing to cover day to day spending and borrowing for investment. Corbyn won hands down on the fact we have used QE before and his use for it is better for the wider economy than the way it has been used to date.

I was still pretty happy to be supporting Burnham on today's performance - clear, calm and professional. Liz didn't contribute a lot, but wasn't too bad. Corbyn was fine, but in the same place he has always been and probably always will be - in the minority on many points, although not all and I was pleased to see some convergence on welfare policy between Burnham and Corbyn. Role on the 12th.....
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by citizenJA »

PorFavor wrote:Re the hustings on Channel 4 -

Don't like the look of yours much. (Whoever you are and whoever you're supporting.)
Brilliant!
User avatar
rebeccariots2
Prime Minister
Posts: 14038
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:20 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Willow904 wrote:Have just watched the C4 debate (some of). Very interesting. I'm glad I didn't put Cooper first, now, or I'd be regretting it. Her obsession with QE was embarrassing as Corbyn clearly stated he would also be willing to fund his investment bank (which I'm not aware any of the other candidates have disagreed with in principle) with government borrowing if more appropriate, as it would be at this point of time. She's right about inflation concerns with QE but the dire warnings about borrowing was pure Osbornomics and she is better than muddling up borrowing to cover day to day spending and borrowing for investment. Corbyn won hands down on the fact we have used QE before and his use for it is better for the wider economy than the way it has been used to date.

I was still pretty happy to be supporting Burnham on today's performance - clear, calm and professional. Liz didn't contribute a lot, but wasn't too bad. Corbyn was fine, but in the same place he has always been and probably always will be - in the minority on many points, although not all and I was pleased to see some convergence on welfare policy between Burnham and Corbyn. Role on the 12th.....
I'm going to have to watch that on catch up if that's possible. I'm still vacillating ... found the Steve Richards piece a useful reminder of how the candidates all started out. Blimey that feels a long time ago now. And will be interesting to see a final hustings / interviews to see where they have travelled to since. A few sartorial adjustments have been made by Corbyn ... he's lost the visible vest top and biro in the pocket. Is Kendall still sporting black nail varnish. These details might prove to be absolutely critical factors in my last minute decision ...

and by the way PF - yours - whoever they are and whatever they are wearing - positively stinks.
Working on the wild side.
User avatar
AngryAsWell
Prime Minister
Posts: 5852
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:35 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by AngryAsWell »

This is how our country used to be - I'm so ashamed of the UK.

Alex Andreou ‏@sturdyAlex · 5h5 hours ago
Alex Andreou retweeted Polizei München
Munich police are inundated with donations for refugees and are asking the public to stop bringing stuff for now.
User avatar
TechnicalEphemera
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2967
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:21 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

To briefly bring the tone down one of the Problems I have with Corbyn is he attracts and at least tolerates people like this guy

Extract from Michael Whites piece.
There are forces that have rallied round him that are spoiling for a fight. Take the Alliance for Workers Liberty, once known as Socialist Organiser, and its newspaper to which Corbyn recently gave an interview. Its leading theorist Sean Matgamna wrote last month: “If Jeremy Corbyn wins, it won’t be the end but the beginning of the fight. A leader of the French Revolution once observed that ‘those who make half a revolution, only dig their own graves’. A Corbyn victory will at best be only half a revolution. It will energise the PLP and its backers in the press for a serious fight back. If we don’t respond blow for blow, with determination to win, then the rightwing counter-revolution will win. There will be a severe repression of the left. The chance of a new beginning for working-class politics will be squandered.

“If Corbyn wins, then the left should immediately go on the offensive. Irreconcilable MPs should be de-selected. Labour party democracy needs to be restored. The Labour party conference must again become the democratic labour movement. There is a strand of Corbyn’s support that seeks to delegitimise its opponents rather than engage with them.”
If you deselect sitting MPs you give the Tories 2000+ extra votes in their seats, making it even harder to win an election.

People like him should not be permitted to join Labour. The concept he is any sort of theorist is hysterical.

In other news BBC weather forecast here - a mostly dry night....

It has been solid downpour for 2.5 hours all over the area. I don't mind the forecast being wrong about the future, but when it is wrong about the present it is hopeless.
Release the Guardvarks.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by HindleA »

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/s ... ?CMP=fb_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Pope Francis tells priests to pardon women who have abortions


How grateful they must be.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by HindleA »

I have seen it all before,close up.The results of which will not effect them one bit.Cynical" children "who grow up to be worse than those they pretend to despise.Fantasists playing their games.
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by citizenJA »

About fifteen minutes ago from the Economics blog:
A long day of down selling without much respite across the globe has ended with the US’s Dow Jones Industrial Average stock index closing down lower in a single day than it has since the country’s national debt was downgraded by Standard & Poor’s. The Nikkei lost a full 3.8% today and the FTSE lost 3.03%, with other European markets faring poorly as well.

The bad news that appears to have kicked off the crunch comes primarily from the Chinese manufacturing sector, which was lower Monday than it has been in three years. Those specific economic woes aren’t solely Chinese: the French manufacturing sector contracted at a faster rate in August than it had the month prior, and growth in US manufacturing has slowed, as well.

Last week’s highs and lows in the American market were marked by frantic trading throughout the day; today the Dow collapsed at open and stayed low throughout the day.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/liv ... iness-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tubby Isaacs
Prime Minister
Posts: 9949
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Willow904 wrote:Have just watched the C4 debate (some of). Very interesting. I'm glad I didn't put Cooper first, now, or I'd be regretting it. Her obsession with QE was embarrassing as Corbyn clearly stated he would also be willing to fund his investment bank (which I'm not aware any of the other candidates have disagreed with in principle) with government borrowing if more appropriate, as it would be at this point of time. She's right about inflation concerns with QE but the dire warnings about borrowing was pure Osbornomics and she is better than muddling up borrowing to cover day to day spending and borrowing for investment. Corbyn won hands down on the fact we have used QE before and his use for it is better for the wider economy than the way it has been used to date.
But that's no reason to use it again, with a recovery underway. That's being generous and calling Corbyn's stuff QE at all.

Corbyn's going to be borrowing more on day to day than anyone, I would think. Just in terms of public sector pay claims, he's going to be on a very sticky wicket. That is assuming his career hasn't been a complete sham so far. He couldn't even tell the FBU in 2002 that they were being stupid in going for a pay rise 6 or 7 times the rate of inflation.
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by citizenJA »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:To briefly bring the tone down one of the Problems I have with Corbyn is he attracts and at least tolerates people like this guy

Extract from Michael Whites piece.
There are forces that have rallied round him that are spoiling for a fight. Take the Alliance for Workers Liberty, once known as Socialist Organiser, and its newspaper to which Corbyn recently gave an interview. Its leading theorist Sean Matgamna wrote last month: “If Jeremy Corbyn wins, it won’t be the end but the beginning of the fight. A leader of the French Revolution once observed that ‘those who make half a revolution, only dig their own graves’. A Corbyn victory will at best be only half a revolution. It will energise the PLP and its backers in the press for a serious fight back. If we don’t respond blow for blow, with determination to win, then the rightwing counter-revolution will win. There will be a severe repression of the left. The chance of a new beginning for working-class politics will be squandered.

“If Corbyn wins, then the left should immediately go on the offensive. Irreconcilable MPs should be de-selected. Labour party democracy needs to be restored. The Labour party conference must again become the democratic labour movement. There is a strand of Corbyn’s support that seeks to delegitimise its opponents rather than engage with them.”
(my bold)

What in the world is this about, TE?
Is that bold part for real as in is that likely to happen in reality?
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by HindleA »

Fellow traveller fantasists that reek ultimate destruction,as I say I have seen it all before.
User avatar
TechnicalEphemera
Speaker of the House
Posts: 2967
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:21 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

citizenJA wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:To briefly bring the tone down one of the Problems I have with Corbyn is he attracts and at least tolerates people like this guy

Extract from Michael Whites piece.
There are forces that have rallied round him that are spoiling for a fight. Take the Alliance for Workers Liberty, once known as Socialist Organiser, and its newspaper to which Corbyn recently gave an interview. Its leading theorist Sean Matgamna wrote last month: “If Jeremy Corbyn wins, it won’t be the end but the beginning of the fight. A leader of the French Revolution once observed that ‘those who make half a revolution, only dig their own graves’. A Corbyn victory will at best be only half a revolution. It will energise the PLP and its backers in the press for a serious fight back. If we don’t respond blow for blow, with determination to win, then the rightwing counter-revolution will win. There will be a severe repression of the left. The chance of a new beginning for working-class politics will be squandered.

“If Corbyn wins, then the left should immediately go on the offensive. Irreconcilable MPs should be de-selected. Labour party democracy needs to be restored. The Labour party conference must again become the democratic labour movement. There is a strand of Corbyn’s support that seeks to delegitimise its opponents rather than engage with them.”
(my bold)

What in the world is this about, TE?
Is that bold part for real as in is that likely to happen in reality?
It will if theorists like this genius have their way. I know people who lived through the expulsion of Militant in the 80s, tales of intimidation and physical violence in leafy suburbia.
Release the Guardvarks.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by HindleA »

Never physically intimidated but definately pressurised in not so leafy Liverpool.
HindleA
Prime Minister
Posts: 27400
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
Location: Three quarters way to hell

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by HindleA »

There are parts that are leafy to be strictly fair.
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by citizenJA »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Have just watched the C4 debate (some of). Very interesting. I'm glad I didn't put Cooper first, now, or I'd be regretting it. Her obsession with QE was embarrassing as Corbyn clearly stated he would also be willing to fund his investment bank (which I'm not aware any of the other candidates have disagreed with in principle) with government borrowing if more appropriate, as it would be at this point of time. She's right about inflation concerns with QE but the dire warnings about borrowing was pure Osbornomics and she is better than muddling up borrowing to cover day to day spending and borrowing for investment. Corbyn won hands down on the fact we have used QE before and his use for it is better for the wider economy than the way it has been used to date.
But that's no reason to use it again, with a recovery underway. That's being generous and calling Corbyn's stuff QE at all.

Corbyn's going to be borrowing more on day to day than anyone, I would think. Just in terms of public sector pay claims, he's going to be on a very sticky wicket. That is assuming his career hasn't been a complete sham so far. He couldn't even tell the FBU in 2002 that they were being stupid in going for a pay rise 6 or 7 times the rate of inflation.
I think you're right in that even Corbyn would acknowledge his economic policy ideas aren't 'QE' ('Quantitive Easing').
It's my understanding he's interested in investment in communications, energy, transportation and health infrastructure staffed by properly trained and compensated people.
Corbyn and the Fire Brigades Union (FBU) of '02, eh?
Tubby Isaacs
Prime Minister
Posts: 9949
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Sean Mantgamna is 74. I wouldn't worry too much about him.

In some ways, he's been more mainstream than Corbyn has been. His position on the Falklands and Northern Ireland, for instance.
User avatar
citizenJA
Prime Minister
Posts: 20648
Joined: Thu 11 Sep, 2014 12:22 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by citizenJA »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:To briefly bring the tone down one of the Problems I have with Corbyn is he attracts and at least tolerates people like this guy

Extract from Michael Whites piece.
(my bold)

What in the world is this about, TE?
Is that bold part for real as in is that likely to happen in reality?
It will if theorists like this genius have their way. I know people who lived through the expulsion of Militant in the 80s, tales of intimidation and physical violence in leafy suburbia.
No one need get expelled.
Tubby Isaacs
Prime Minister
Posts: 9949
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 11:18 pm

Re: Tuesday 1st.September

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

I think you're right in that even Corbyn would acknowledge his economic policy ideas aren't 'QE' ('Quantitive Easing').
It's my understanding he's interested in investment in communications, energy, transportation and health infrastructure staffed by properly trained and compensated people.
Corbyn and the Fire Brigades Union (FBU) of '02, eh?[/quote]

Well, everyone's interested in investment- the last government (albeit by bringing forward some stuff) achieved the highest level of infrastructure spending since 1975, per the IFS.

The FBU 2002 example was the one that came to mind, though it was an odd one, with the competence of the leadership being as much as an issue as left or right. The General Secretary was booted out in the next election. But I can't recall Corbyn being prominent in many battles to control current spending, aside from Defence cuts.
Locked