Tuesday 15th September 2015

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 7:23 am

Good morning.

Just making up for the week that was.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 7:29 am

A couple of things had caught my attention earlier. Firstly I am reliably informed that if one doesn't get one's way then one gets especially angry. It's all over the news, godammit.

'And secondly exchanging pleasantries to and from the loo in the office improves productivity. Who'd have guessed? Please don't engage me for too long while I'm on my way or it may get messy... and don't ask if I washed my hands on my way back. What do you take me for?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 8:02 am

Morning UD and everyone.

Saw on Twitter that ' "moderates" won election to the conference arrangements committee'.
Not sure how that will affect things for Corbyn in practical terms.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 8:32 am

@yahyah

Thanks, yahyah, I wondered what was up.

'And copied from the end of Monday's thread... I see that computers in school are not the great things they're purported to be. Of course not unless you want to program them yourselves so possibly there is something to be gained. Not the way they're currently used for everything though.

What's the point? Why have something do so much at the time when learning and discovery are paramount? If you don't gain hands on experience than you deserve a shallow life. One major difference in this case. What are they doing to our kids and how much choice are we giving them? Lessons must be learned.

Postscript: I used to tell newcomers to computing in no uncertain terms that they had better be sure of what they're doing because if they're not careful they shall take over their lives. I don't know one programmer or related worker that doesn't spend an inordinate amount of their time poking, prodding and generally getting stuck in... and that was before the advent of social media. Now we're all at it.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 8:40 am

Polly Toynbee:

''Those former shadow ministers who have stomped off in a huff and a flounce make a serious error by deserting their posts.
If they fear contamination with what they expect to be the Corbyn car-crash, they will find themselves blamed for failing to stay.
Backbenchers who snark and snipe, helpful only to the enemy, can expect no thanks from any side of the party.

If Corbyn fails, they risk being seen as part of the reason why.

Flip-floppers and ditherers nakedly calculating the odds on the least career-damaging course will find themselves left stranded, whatever happens next.
Because whatever follows will not be any return to their past but something else again, without them. They preach being serious about power and yet abdicate before waiting to see what policies they can help shape.

The only way to travel is in hope – in politics as in life.
I hoped for Gordon Brown’s success, I hoped for Ed Miliband’s. What’s the point of dread and despair?

I agree with her.
If Corbyn fails, the Labour membership will not reward those who sabotaged him and aided the Tories. They may find that the Labour party they seek to save from Corbyn (and a majority of members) is just their delusion.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... labour-mps" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 8:58 am

GeorgeMonbiot ‏@GeorgeMonbiot 1h1 hour ago
Great piece by @chakrabortty on #JeremyCorbyn and the politics of hope: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... er-economy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry if this was linked last night but I didn't pick up on it.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 9:06 am

Morning all.

I must admit that I did like the way that Today interviewed people in Liverpool and asked them generally on their views about Jeremy Corbyn and welfare (they were against) and them moved into the studio to talk to frank Field specifically about tax credits and the debate today in the Commons.

Unfortunately for Humphreys, Field started laying into the Tories and how there are a number who are against cutting tax credits and thought it might well backfire. Never mind John you did try...

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 9:08 am

It was pleasing to hear Field taking the fight to Osborne.

More of that from Labour MPs please.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 9:08 am

Morning. Rained all night - raining now. Looks like another day rained off work ... ah well. Have to hope it made life very difficult for badger shooters last night.

Now.

Angela Eagle gave a very good interview on Newsnight. Very good. I'm really pleased we're going to be seeing a lot more of her as a spokesperson.

I then watched the short Youtube video of John McDonnell's interview with Channel 4. Surprised to be quite impressed by his ability to put himself across. I thought his response to the tricky question re the IRA was actually very good because he didn't shy away from it at all - it made him look open, honest and accountable for his actions - and serious about and experienced in the business and art of politics and negotiation - especially that of the peace process.

And then I saw the discussion between the (former?) Labour staffer - Ayesha someone - Phil Collins of the Times / former Blair speechwriter - and the young female leader of the Students Union (sorry, can't remember her name). Impressed by the full on acceptance of the Labour staffer of the huge mandate given to Corbyn by members and supporters and her calm, lets get on with it manner - and her simple analysis of Scotland's election. Phil Collins was depressing - you can see he is basically waiting to say I told you so many times over - and he just patronised the young students union leader. She - student union leader - was promising. How good it will be if we start seeing a lot more young people on Newsnight and other programmes - please, let it happen. Somehow - in the gloom after the election result - we forgot about the new movements that had been started while Ed was leader which saw the Bite The Ballot and other young people's hustings / interviews etc. That rising interest hasn't gone away - it's the reverse - it's been built on and worked with by committed young people, others in Labour and associated organisations and Corbyn's campaign.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 9:39 am

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 22m22 minutes ago
From inside the digital side of the @jeremycorbyn campaign, and how Labour/politics could learn lessons. " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Interesting article - lots of food for thought - and, importantly, makes me feel optimistic about being able to change the way the Labour party works and feels. Ephie will like much of this (famous last words - she might hate it now!). I particularly like the sections / points on campaigning by doing and what that might involve - groupings beyond constituency and geography - and policy development.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 9:46 am

I'm getting a bit cheesed off with the BBC and their vox pops like the one from Merseyside today. I am unsurprised however that they always seem to fit the Tory narrative. Why have a couple of people who know what they're talking about debate an issue when you can interview a lot of people who don't know what they're talking about to set the tone? I hate the toady programme.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 9:49 am

Frank Field MP ‏@frankfieldteam 26m26 minutes ago
Osborne's Living Wage could transform welfare, but lying in his immediate path is an elephant trap of his own making http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehous ... hes-doing/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Most of this is interesting and informative ... and then he goes and spoils it all ... that last line.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 9:51 am

frightful_oik wrote:I'm getting a bit cheesed off with the BBC and their vox pops like the one from Merseyside today. I am unsurprised however that they always seem to fit the Tory narrative. Why have a couple of people who know what they're talking about debate an issue when you can interview a lot of people who don't know what they're talking about to set the tone? I hate the toady programme.

Indeed. Plus Wirral West is a constituency of extremes. Hoylake being the posher, wealthier area.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 9:56 am

Never stop smiling at this ... [youtube]9mGGkLNZSUk[/youtube]

Post by **refitman** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 10:11 am

Morning all. Would anyone like some cake?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 10:13 am

refitman wrote:Morning all. Would anyone like some cake?

Is that real - live in your home - refit - or a figment of your photo collection imagination? Either way - looks wonderful - yes please.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 10:24 am

refitman wrote:Morning all. Would anyone like some cake?

That looks goooooood.

Is there anything below the smarties?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 10:31 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 01309.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

george-osbornes-biggest-benefit-cuts-are-for-people-who-actually-have-jobs-ifs-says

This is really very important. It's what we all said. Osborne has simply conned lower paid workers with his living wage.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 10:32 am

Am I to take it that many happy returns are due? Would it be right that it's only been a few so far, refitman, because that cake looks absolutely awful. There's no accounting for taste just so long as the rest of you enjoy. Who am I to spoil the party?

Talking of party I've looked at my In Box and note a personal invitation from Jeremy to join, something I hadn't done yesterday being a bit of a sleepy head. So how can I refuse? Should I go on to spoil the party after all, you now know who to blame.

Cheers and a happy birthday, refitman. Don't expect any kisses because they're not forthcoming.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 10:36 am

Good morfternoon.

@refitman

Happy birthday!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 10:39 am

Good-morning, everyone.

Happy Birthday, refitman!

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 10:42 am

As the price of oil tumbles this is spoken of as good for consumers. What is the impact on the tax take?

These figures are pretty dire. LTEP my arse.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 10:42 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 01309.html

george-osbornes-biggest-benefit-cuts-are-for-people-who-actually-have-jobs-ifs-says

This is really very important. It's what we all said. Osborne has simply conned lower paid workers with his living wage.

It really is important, Paul, because it slots right into their narrative of workers versus shirkers or is it strivers versus skivers? I can never remember as the Tories have so many realities and I cannot keep up. Now all of us who have Tory MPs should get on to them pretty darn quick.

I've deleted a few unkind words because they really wouldn't help. I can do kind, even to Tories when I seek their support. Really I can.

Edit: deleted 'have to' after 'should'.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 10:44 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 01309.html

george-osbornes-biggest-benefit-cuts-are-for-people-who-actually-have-jobs-ifs-says

This is really very important. It's what we all said. Osborne has simply conned lower paid workers with his living wage.

How long do you think it will take those affected to really wake up to it PfY? And will they then blame the Tories ... or still, somehow, Labour?

One of my longest conversations on the doorstep before May was with a young working mum who was in despair about their struggles to keep up with bills etc. She was furious about already having lost some of her tax credits under the coalition and said she was worried about losing even more. But I didn't get a sense that she laid the blame for that with them ... or that she thought Labour would not do the same to her ... or could improve her lot. One of those situations where I thought there was clear differentiation between what the Tories / Lib Dems would do and what Labour would do ... but it somehow wasn't sticking.

If the Tories are now switching their anti Labour message to being a threat to economic security, national and family security and any other kind of security they invent ... what will Labour need to do and say to counter that? What a ridiculous message that is right at the time the Tories are taking a sledgehammer to a big part of many families' economic security - needs to be got across somehow.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 10:50 am

@ud @RR2

Yes maybe the Tories realise the less well off are about to see through them as they end up even worse off.

A switch to "security" is the next refuge of the wannabe fascist I reckon.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 10:53 am

A rare thing - a Simon Jenkins piece I agree with.

Why Jeremy Corbyn’s wait-and-see stance on EU membership makes sense
Simon Jenkins
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The bizarre Corbyn interregnum at chateau Labour could yet prove salutary. The new leader’s position on the EU referendum is the only one that makes sense – other than Ukip’s. It is a refusal to decide for or against continued British membership of the EU until we know what that really means.

David Cameron has promised to negotiate a “fundamental” reform of Britain’s relationship with the rest of Europe. He has not promised to vote no if he fails to achieve it. He has thus reduced his negotiating leverage to almost zero and made the exercise appear a sham. Given his current stance on Syrian refugees, half of Europe would dearly like to make British membership more rather than less onerous...

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 11:01 am

@rebeccariots2

Thanks for the link regarding Open Labour and its digital revolution, I'll see what else I can find out albeit a little hesitant of making commitments. I still have to get back to properly making a living for a few more years. That's going to be demanding enough. So nothing new then.

Cheers anyway, worth following up if only out of interest.

Edit: relocated 'properly' - must have hit the touchpad. Bloody Win8.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 11:02 am

Isabel Hardman ‏@IsabelHardman 2m2 minutes ago
‘MP asleep’ is actually leaning closer to speaker because of hearing problems http://specc.ie/1J9uSRu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; #toogoodtocheck

Yes - he is - apparently. The speaker is in the bench if you look closely. My bad for circulating the photo ... without knowing the reality. Apologies to him and here.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 11:03 am

This is what people are leaving.
The devastation continues.
I'd leave this too, if I could manage to do so.
This crap has destroyed the lives of human beings and their homes.
No finger pointing from me, how the hell would I know who started what when?
I do know air strikes ordered by the UK and the US landed in Syria because the UK PM and US President told me they did.
More of that won't help.
More of that creates what the image shows below.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/ee4d8c10 ... 5fee3db47a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"A man walks among the rubble of collapsed buildings in Douma after what activists said were airstrikes by forces loyal to Assad earlier this year. Photograph: Mohammed Badra/Reuters"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/s ... step-aside" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

edited to remove image and left the link to it instead

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 11:08 am

John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 2m2 minutes ago
Astonishing 44% of those who were members before 2010 general election voted Corbyn 1st pref – that must be bc centrists had left.

Is he only just realising that the scale of the vote just doesn't fit the convenient explanation that it was entryists and new members wot won it for Corbyn?

But his second attempt at an explanation is bizarre ... why would centrists have left before 2010? We were still in the grips of Blair and Brown centrist policies surely?

The Labour staffer on Newsnight yesterday - and even Phil Collins - was very clear that regardless of Corbyn the membership had clearly shown it wanted a new direction for the party, a real change in the way it works.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 11:10 am

Jeremy Corbyn under pressure to show leadership and clarify policy positions

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ip-ability" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh, like he's not made his leadership and policies clear already, Wintour? He has though. Shut the hell up and pay attention if you want to know.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 11:13 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 2m2 minutes ago
Astonishing 44% of those who were members before 2010 general election voted Corbyn 1st pref – that must be bc centrists had left.
Is he only just realising that the scale of the vote just doesn't fit the convenient explanation that it was entryists and new members wot won it for Corbyn?

But his second attempt at an explanation is bizarre ... why would centrists have left before 2010? We were still in the grips of Blair and Brown centrist policies surely?

The Labour staffer on Newsnight yesterday - and even Phil Collins - was very clear that regardless of Corbyn the membership had clearly shown it wanted a new direction for the party, a real change in the way it works.

It *is* pretty astonishing tbf - but not in the way Ren-tool "thinks".

It was a massive vote of no-confidence - even from generally mainstream, moderate members - in the likes of him and what they represent.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 11:18 am

charlie whelan @charliewhelan

Someone please tell @jeremycorbyn that pre briefing speeches like #TUC15 gives two days headlines on your agenda not theirs
10:04 AM - 15 Sep 2015

4 4 Retweets
3

Whelan is right. Corbyn’s team have not briefed anything from today’s speech in advance. Generally, that’s a mistake. If you have a message, and you pre-brief it in advance, there is reasonable chance that journalists will stick it in the papers. If you don’t, they have to report something else, and you have less control over what they are going to say. None of this is very complicated ... (Politics Live, Guardian)

Neither does any of it (generally) describe what really happens, though, does it?

Edited to attribute quote

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 11:25 am

PorFavor wrote:
charlie whelan @charliewhelan

Someone please tell @jeremycorbyn that pre briefing speeches like #TUC15 gives two days headlines on your agenda not theirs
10:04 AM - 15 Sep 2015

4 4 Retweets
3

Whelan is right. Corbyn’s team have not briefed anything from today’s speech in advance. Generally, that’s a mistake. If you have a message, and you pre-brief it in advance, there is reasonable chance that journalists will stick it in the papers. If you don’t, they have to report something else, and you have less control over what they are going to say. None of this is very complicated ... (Politics Live, Guardian)
Neither does any of it (generally) describe what really happens, though, does it?

Edited to attribute quote

And - at the moment - I'm not so sure it's such a bad thing to have a bit of an advance vacuum. We know all too well how the preview dissections and attacks work - the MSM and the Labour disaffected get given a couple of days / 24 hours to have a right go at something before it has even happened / been said. And they are generally able to frame it as something it turns out not to be - but job done. Funny, I'm not too bothered by doing without that ...

The press / spinners / publicists are annoyed that it is not business as usual. Good. Corbyn and team will have to decide what approach they want to take to managing their communications - but as the students union leader said last night ... it's been 2 days since he was elected leader. He needs to make sure he's got the right team and staff around him first.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 11:32 am

Patrick Wintour retweeted
odysseanproject ‏@odysseanproject 5m5 minutes ago
V interesting new poll from ICM: differential turnout favours LEAVE, only 1/3 are pro the failing EU project https://dominiccummings.wordpress.com/2 ... u-project/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 11:33 am

"We need a general election to elect Mr Cameron as our leader now, this sort of thing would never happen with him in charge!"
http://discussion.theguardian.com/comme ... k/59484899" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Last sentence of a satirical comment posted yesterday below the line on the linked thread.
I read it a couple times to make sure the author of it wasn't serious.
The propaganda is so thick on the ground I'd not be the least bit surprised Tory government declare it's time to vote for them because of the mess Labour government has made for over five years...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 11:42 am

Ian Dunt ‏@IanDunt 14m14 minutes ago
Ian Dunt retweeted David Sheehan
Very good interview, worth watching

David Sheehan@DavidSheehan14
@IanDunt Interview of John McDonnell by Jon Snow clarified for me position of women in shadow cabinet. " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

[youtube]cGDla6aSwng[/youtube]

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 11:46 am

PorFavor wrote:
charlie whelan @charliewhelan

Someone please tell @jeremycorbyn that pre briefing speeches like #TUC15 gives two days headlines on your agenda not theirs
10:04 AM - 15 Sep 2015

4 4 Retweets
3

Whelan is right. Corbyn’s team have not briefed anything from today’s speech in advance. Generally, that’s a mistake. If you have a message, and you pre-brief it in advance, there is reasonable chance that journalists will stick it in the papers. If you don’t, they have to report something else, and you have less control over what they are going to say. None of this is very complicated ... (Politics Live, Guardian)
Neither does any of it (generally) describe what really happens, though, does it?

Edited to attribute quote

(my bold)
Exactly, Porfavor.
It's an admission stories get made up, stories, not reality.
I'm so angry.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 11:48 am

Refit or Paul from Yorkshire ... if you are around - can you delete my post of the pic of Alec Shelbrooke MP, please? It's unfair to him - as I've explained and apologised for in my later post (so people can still understand what's gone on through the link in it) - and I'd be happier if it wasn't displayed here at all.

Ta in advance.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 11:49 am

Britain Elects ‏@britainelects 42m42 minutes ago
EU referendum poll:
Remain - 43%
Leave - 40%
(via ICM / 11 - 13 Sep)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 11:58 am

Iain McNicol ‏@IainMcNicol 7m7 minutes ago Redhill, England
30,000 new @UKLabour party members since Saturday. Party membership now over 342,000. Thanks to all who have joined.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 12:04 pm

norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 5m5 minutes ago
Boss of @GMB_union Paul Kenny says he'll put motion to Labour confernece to back EU "out" vote if PM weakens workers' rights #tuc2015

norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 7m7 minutes ago
Big unions set to back campaign to pull out of EU if PM waters down workers' rights #tuc2015

Cameron really is such a pillock.

What did he expect to happen with his waving around the prospect of negotiating away workers rights and - virtually simultaneously - introducing a really punitive and unnecessary bill to limit Trade Union activities and rights.

If he really wants to stay in Europe - to please his business backers and keep the farming votes and subsidies - he's shot himself in both feet.

Aim higher on yourself next time Cameron, please. (sorry)

Post by **refitman** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 12:07 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Refit or Paul from Yorkshire ... if you are around - can you delete my post of the pic of Alec Shelbrooke MP, please? It's unfair to him - as I've explained and apologised for in my later post (so people can still understand what's gone on through the link in it) - and I'd be happier if it wasn't displayed here at all.

Ta in advance.

Done.

Post by **refitman** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 12:08 pm

Cheers guys and gals. Not my cake, unfortunately.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 12:18 pm

The government has welcomed today’s inflation report, even though it shows the Bank of England is failing to hit the 2% target.
Treasury spokeswoman says:
Today’s inflation figure means a real boost for working people and family budgets across our one nation, with prices essentially frozen compared to last year while wages continue to rise.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/liv ... e0c6190211" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Treasury says it's double-plus good news
No joke, people, that's the quote from the Treasury, not an artists' rendering of what the Treasury said.
Tory Chancellor Jeff has spoken through the mouth of a Treasury spokeswoman.

Dave often has a spokeswoman saying his words.
I've noticed throughout these bleak years of Tory government the unnamed government spokeswomen are tasked with communicating what Osborne and Cameron won't say to the press themselves.

Corbyn doesn't have an unnamed spokeswoman delivering his news to media.
I'm glad.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 12:21 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
The thing that annoys me most about this is the contemptuous 'None of this is very complicated ...' As if to say 'doesn't he know how things work?' It backs up the point I made yesterday that political journalists have got so used to being spoonfed that they can't function when they aren't. As I (almost) said on the liveblog, 'Listen to the f^%&ing speech, report the f^%&ing speech'.

What annoys me almost as much is that the Tories have been mucking about with the established order as well - as was pointed out the other day, the number of bids for interviews they turn down, in favour of written statements, has grown dramatically over the last parliament - but that's to broadcasters, who have a statutory duty to be balanced. Other than a sometimes slightly snide 'we asked for a minister but none were available', there's not much they can do. Whereas the print media (and its online offspring) can gleefully bear grudges for as long as it likes.

Yes, it's now got to the point where journos don't actually have to turn up to an event where anyone's speaking - they can simply regurgitate the speech and line they're given beforehand and sit in the office.

Go and listen to it live - the very idea!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 12:22 pm

Re the pre-briefing twaddle, I rather liked this, very much to the point, comment which I happened upon from the Guardian Politics Blog:

matter
17m ago

Eh? Why can't you go along to the speech with a pencil and notebook and, you know, report what they say? Sort of like what a reporter or a journalist would do.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 12:27 pm

StephenDolan wrote:As the price of oil tumbles this is spoken of as good for consumers. What is the impact on the tax take?

These figures are pretty dire. LTEP my arse.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chancellor Jeff's Treasury spokeswoman said whatever happens, Chancellor Jeff says it's good news.
Unless it's impossible to spin the thing as good news.
Then Osborne tells us it's Labour's fault hoping it gets him out of his tough spot.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 12:29 pm

I see Baron Baker of Dorking has lost none of his slug like qualities over the years. Trying to be a smartarse about Corbyn on Daily Politics

: Kenneth_Baker.jpg (47.25 KiB) Viewed 8668 times

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 15 Sep, 2015 12:34 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Iain McNicol ‏@IainMcNicol 7m7 minutes ago Redhill, England
30,000 new @UKLabour party members since Saturday. Party membership now over 342,000. Thanks to all who have joined.

Over a third of a million, then. Tbf a few people *are* leaving, but they are simply being swamped by the new arrivals.

The previous high for Labour membership in modern times was about 410k in the summer of 1997. At this rate, we could be close to that by Christmas.