Monday 21st September 2015

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 5:26 am

Good morning

No reason especially, just that time of day again and all is well with the world. Slowly but surely memories of last night begin to dawn on me... and no need to be a twit to realise that somebody out there is very red-faced this morning and more than likely has not slept at all well.It wouldn't surprise me if he's been getting a bit of stick either, possibly even some fisticuffs. Poor David, it couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Seriously though it's far overdue that he deserved his comeuppance, it's his kids that I feel sorry for. I can barely muster any sympathy for Sam either... unless she's not able to stand by him and allows him the privacy to swallow his pride alone.

Shall David be calling another one of his.. snake is it? Ah cobra meetings. May we expect a statement from Number Ten this morning? I somehow doubt that he shall be showing his face or anything else for that matter.

Edit: replace 'just desserts' with 'pride'

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 5:39 am

Time to see what this morning's headlines shall be.

Which reminds me on introduction I was once reliably informed by a young student going by the name of Goodhead that she lived up to her name. Would you believe that I remained completely straight-faced and did not offer my typical reply? It's not very often that I lie even to protect the innocent, so shall leave it to you to be the judge of that.

The truth is that I immediately retorted, "Am I supposed to take your word for that?" Which rather neatly brings me full circle... and no I am not suggesting that said young lady, nor rr2 for that matter, is a pig, rather are we to believe a single word that David may say?

Postscript: for the avoidance of doubt, protecting the innocent or possibly not so in exceptional cases, is a valid reason for withholding the truth, not that I see any today however.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 5:59 am

Can you imagine the competition going on across television studios, not just in Britain but all around the whole world this morning? Who is going to bagsey the most lurid of announcements today? You've just got to laugh, otherwise you'd be crying your eyes out, wouldn't you?

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 6:05 am

Please may I... Oh go on, please can I be invited on the telly this morning to discuss what the papers say?

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 6:11 am

No wonder he is so snubbed across Europe. Would you shake that man's hand? Perhaps taking Edwina's in my own wasn't so bad after all. Have you heard of the expression, 'A fate worse than death'?

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 6:17 am

"We'll take a look at the front pages now."

How on earth did Charlie and Naga not snigger over the Mail?

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 7:08 am

A final thought before I wash that man right out off my hair, did anybody catch a bit of Delingpole yesterday? I had plenty to say on what I thought of him, or rather what did he think of himself but happily refrained from doing so. Quite a challenge for me, or possibly not, considering I had already mentioned the likelihood of my bursting into song.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 7:26 am

In musical circles today, skin and hide bashers the world over rapidly seek new term for flam triplets.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 7:31 am

Breaking news: There is a huge surge in job prospects for those with nothing on their hands today as internet fora urgently seek additional moderators the world over. There is no telling how long such conditions may last. Rumours are coming from Number Ten that David cannot keep things up for much longer and may soon be standing down.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 7:44 am

G'day all

The Director Generals of seven Nordic countries' public broadcasting companies have published a letter in The Guardian in praise, support, and defence of, the BBC. I quote just one part:

No creative organisation in the world is as well known and has such a reputation for quality as the BBC. That reputation reflects on Britain as a whole. Every day, all over the world, on all continents, the BBC’s programmes and services inform, educate and entertain millions of people. The international standing of the BBC would be unthinkable without a broad remit at home. Diminishing the BBC at home risks diminishing Britain abroad.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/s ... oadcasters

In other news, I hear that 10 Downing Street have told Sky News that no-one will be commenting on the Daily Mail's serialisation of that book. So there's a surprise...

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 7:45 am

For no other reason than springing to mind, I have a few words of advice for smokers who may have the odd job that need doing. It may do little for the attention span but giving up certainly improves activity levels no matter how tired one is. From cleaning up to running repairs, from buying clothes to smartening up, even handling the mail. It is surprising what one can get up to.

Fortunately for you all, I have other far more pressing matters today. Cheers, catch you later.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 7:47 am

utopiandreams wrote:Please may I... Oh go on, please can I be invited on the telly this morning to discuss what the papers say?

Oh, me too, please!

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 7:59 am

Morning.

One only has to enter "BBC pig" into Twitter to have one's cynicism thoroughly vindicated this morning.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:13 am

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Story PM could do without today, trickiest bit maybe row over Lord Ashcroft's tax arrangements"

Five words establishing empathy straight off the bat, while drugs, hating poor people - and of course the pig - not all that tricky.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:20 am

Inside Out has a special investigation into the housing crisis, tonight on BBC One at 7.30pm.

The government says it wants a million homes built in England by 2020, as the scale of the housing crisis is revealed in a BBC Inside Out investigation.
The National Housing Federation estimated 974,000 homes were needed between 2011 and 2014.
But figures from 326 councils showed only 457,490 were built.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34209027

The Guardian comments on the same story in their Housing section, including Brandon Lewis' actual quote:

“By the end of this parliament, success I think would mean that we have seen a build in total of something like a million homes.”

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... government

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:22 am

Just shows the media are right, Corbyn is not PM material, he's never shagged a dead pig.
How could such a man shake hands with the queen ?

I suspect the BBC will not be spending as much time telling its viewers about Dave's debauchery & drugs as Corbyn's alleged skeletons.

Don't think Corbyn would do it, but imagine a PMQs where Cameron's getting rude and shouty ?
Jez could mutter 'Zoophilia' and invite Bozo to speculate on whether the correct term should incorporate the Greek for dead pig.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:24 am

Wikipedea has been updated

: CPZ6-lrW8AAr8a4.png (130.11 KiB) Viewed 10191 times

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:26 am

Tim Farron on Radio 4 'We wanna be in power'.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:28 am

What can we do to get the refugee crisis, Syria & UK poverty off of the front pages

: ScreenShot00798.jpg (79.59 KiB) Viewed 10184 times

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:31 am

He's also deliberately avoided confirming the point that although Tonge doesn't have the whip in the Lords, she is still a Lib Dem member.

He also thinks PreFab Sprout to be the greatest thing in the world. How naff.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:41 am

Joking apart, it is all just so horribly tawdry. But not entirely unexpected.

Presume these revolting rituals stem from public school, maybe some journos could look at what is happening in them in 2015.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:41 am

NonOxCol wrote:

"Story PM could do without today, trickiest bit maybe row over Lord Ashcroft's tax arrangements"

Five words establishing empathy straight off the bat, while drugs, hating poor people - and of course the pig - not all that tricky.

Indeed. I've gone right off sausage and apple stuffing...

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:48 am

Radio 4's Today, apart from a very fleeting mention, is a pig free/Ashcroft tax free zone.

That's despite the BBC's Kuessenberg tweeting last night about it and the tax aspect last night.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 8:57 am

Am not sure it would be used as a distraction from other stories, be honest, what could be worse for the Tories than that ?

Unless it is part of a right wing campaign to unseat Cameron.

It is going to be hard to slam Corbyn for being a Red under the bed, not wearing a tie, or not singing the national anthem when you've shagged a dead animal. Can Cameron's political career continue ?

Edited to add: It's already being reported around the world, & not just in tabloids.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:10 am

New Zealand - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/ar ... d=11516423" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:29 am

yahyah wrote:Radio 4's Today, apart from a very fleeting mention, is a pig free/Ashcroft tax free zone.

That's despite the BBC's Kuessenberg tweeting last night about it and the tax aspect last night.

Morning!

Yes. Iain Dale (whose company is publishing the book) was clearly annoyed by the media silence last night - nothing on Sky news (even though both the commentators on discuss the papers knew about it and it was on the front page ffs) and, of course, nothing on the BBC today.

It's the tweets about what might happen at PMQs that I found funniest. Corbyn saying he'd received 650,000 emails and starting with ... Mr O Macdonald wants to know .... and so on. I went to bed still chuckling over 'The Prosciutto Affair'.

And isn't it OBM who has long called Cameron 'hamface'?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:33 am

Tee hee...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:33 am

Jason Beattie ‏@JBeattieMirror 1h1 hour ago
Tim Farron floundering over his claim there could be defections from Labour. Here's why: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/la ... ms-6463520" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Isabel Hardman ‏@IsabelHardman 1h1 hour ago
Farron being asked repeatedly by suspicious-sounding broadcasters about his claim Labour MPs have already considered defecting to Lib Dems

Mike Gapes ‏@MikeGapes 53m53 minutes ago Helsinki, Finland
Seems that Tim Farron is telling porkies. Oh. Better not go there ...

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:36 am

Maybe some of the media are not wanting to push it because it may turn out these repulsive rituals are part of middle class life at school and uni ?

It also acts as a form of leverage later on in the careers of those people.
If someone where to say, er purely for example, get to be PM they could be open to blackmail or persuasion about matters. It could lead to corruption.

That's why the media shouldn't, but will try and ignore it.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:43 am

Ah yes, always wondered why our esteemed PM is referred to be so many (myself included) as "Hamface".

Also maybe explains why I have been listening to (Pink Floyd) Animals rather a lot lately

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:45 am

Evening StandardVerified account
‏@standardnews
Number 10 'does not recognise' David Cameron 'debauchery' claims in new book by Lord Ashcroft http://bit.ly/1FoZnYx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jane Merrick has retweeted this with the comment 'well naturally'.

Elsewhere I think the people who are saying that the worst aspect of this story is actually the bit that says the whole Bullingdon ethos was about 'despising' poor people is spot on. That probably should be the thing we shout about.

If Corbyn has got some nous I hope he asks a question that relates to poverty at next PMQs - something that gets at the disparity between those on the Tory front bench and the people they claim to be representing ...

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:46 am

Also illegal.

''For centuries, sexual acts on animals were illegal under sodomy laws or "crime against nature" laws. Since the 1950s most sodomy laws have been repealed and in some places specific anti-bestiality laws have been enacted.''

United Kingdom -Illegal since 1290
(Penalty: Maximum of 2 years in prison for conviction on indictment

Maximum of 6 months in prison and a fine for summary conviction) Intercourse with an animal (see Sexual Offences Act 2003)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:48 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Evening StandardVerified account
‏@standardnews
Number 10 'does not recognise' David Cameron 'debauchery' claims in new book by Lord Ashcroft http://bit.ly/1FoZnYx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Jane Merrick has retweeted this with the comment 'well naturally'.

Elsewhere I think the people who are saying that the worst aspect of this story is actually the bit that says the whole Bullingdon ethos was about 'despising' poor people is spot on. That probably should be the thing we shout about.

If Corbyn has got some nous I hope he asks a question that relates to poverty at next PMQs - something that gets at the disparity between those on the Tory front bench and the people they claim to be representing ...

Interesting wording...'does not recognise'.
Not quite Clintonesque- 'did not have sex with that pig'.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:50 am

This one speaks for itself:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not because it might be libellous, but because it's - hey - just another sex scandal. And yet none of the other stuff is newsworthy either. But a story about someone else that was retracted 28 years ago *was* newsworthy just last week.

BBC news values.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:56 am

Isabel Hardman ‏@IsabelHardman 7m7 minutes ago
David Cameron will support calls to keep the Tory party neutral during the EU referendum campaign, I understand http://specc.ie/1Jk9JnL" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is my worry.

Cameron is going to make Labour be the spokesperson for Europe and take the lead in campaigning. And I don't think we should be doing that. It's his referendum and renegotiation ffs. Let's not commit now to a campaign which will deflect from his / Tories role.

Cameron is basically going to wash his hands of his own mess.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 9:58 am

I just don't see how he will get away with that - Labour should simply shout "its YOUR referendum, the one YOU wanted" at him non stop.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:00 am

Good to see the Independent reporting on this.

Depressed man killed himself as a direct result of DWP's ‘fit to work’ ruling, coroner finds
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 10305.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:04 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I just don't see how he will get away with that - Labour should simply shout "its YOUR referendum, the one YOU wanted" at him non stop.

I'm worried that the pressure that has already clearly been exerted on Corbyn from certain parts / people in Labour re Europe will not allow Corbyn and the SC to see the trap for what it is and do the sensible thing that you suggest ... i.e. keep shouting it's YOUR referendum.

I actually think neutrality might also be a better position for Labour if Cameron and the Tories are going to take that stance. We really shouldn't be the front runners in any of the campaign stuff for Cameron's referendum.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:04 am

Morfingtons...and blimey....not quite sure where to start....

From last week - Corbyn the 'security risk'.....yet No 10 state he has been invited to join the 'Privy' Council (although, as Corbyn stated on Newsnight, he hasn't actually received any official notification from Dungwart* Dave (OGRFG, TCC & Order of the Clouncy Funt))....so Kuenssberg focuses on whether or not he'll kneel and swear the oath (to something he repeatedly states he'll think about if and when he gets the invite)...and the MSM follow suit....

Corbyns' ancestry (apart from the possible great great great great something or other) - parents who met in the Spanish Civil War...

The youngest of four sons, he is the brother of weather forecaster Piers Corbyn and the son of Naomi (née Josling; 1915-1987), a maths teacher, and David Benjamin Corbyn (1915-1986), an electrical engineer and expert in power rectifiers. His parents were peace campaigners who met during the Spanish Civil War.[8][9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Corbyn

...against Dungwart Dave and SamCam...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 08358.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebri ... anned.html

...and seriously? Porkophilia? It may well be that the Tories, as an 'election winning machine', managed to focus on loyalty until they knew they'd got the keys to the magic money tree back (the existence of which is still being strenuously denied by all those we can see sitting in its' branches), but there's a definite whiff of an underhand plan to rid us of the fishpointer (or possibly just the 'headless chicken' syndrome)...only thing is, which one (of the pretenders to Dungwart Daves' position) isn't implicated by association to nefarious activity?

*Dungwart - swims in sh*t (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... ewage.html) and has personal health issues (https://twitter.com/RealNatalieRowe/sta ... 1856626688)...and apologies for the subject matter, but it seems this Monday is a little bit different to last Monday - the 'Corbyn' effect?

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:04 am

I've just popped telly on and notice that Victoria Derbyshire is about to discuss the Lord Ashcroft allegations about Dave next. Enjoy.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:08 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:I just don't see how he will get away with that - Labour should simply shout "its YOUR referendum, the one YOU wanted" at him non stop.
I'm worried that the pressure that has already clearly been exerted on Corbyn from certain parts / people in Labour re Europe will not allow Corbyn and the SC to see the trap for what it is and do the sensible thing that you suggest ... i.e. keep shouting it's YOUR referendum.

I actually think neutrality might also be a better position for Labour if Cameron and the Tories are going to take that stance. We really shouldn't be the front runners in any of the campaign stuff for Cameron's referendum.

Whatever line the Official Pig-Sticker In Chief eventually adopts, there is nothing stopping Labour running their own campaign supporting a yes vote on *their* terms.

None of the "clarification" since JC became leader has excluded that possibility.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:10 am

Is this why Dave tells so many porkies?

Bit of a paradox actually. We know that Dave always lies and the Mail always lies soooo, if they contradict one another... well, bang goes the space-time continuum under the strain.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:14 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:I just don't see how he will get away with that - Labour should simply shout "its YOUR referendum, the one YOU wanted" at him non stop.
I'm worried that the pressure that has already clearly been exerted on Corbyn from certain parts / people in Labour re Europe will not allow Corbyn and the SC to see the trap for what it is and do the sensible thing that you suggest ... i.e. keep shouting it's YOUR referendum.

I actually think neutrality might also be a better position for Labour if Cameron and the Tories are going to take that stance. We really shouldn't be the front runners in any of the campaign stuff for Cameron's referendum.
Yes, I think this was unfortunate. Being able to hang back and wait for the 'renegotiation' was a good position to be in. And purely cynically, how many votes are there in being a party that's pro-EU no matter what?

At the very least, Labour should avoid campaigning FOR remaining in if that's what it takes. Otherwise they'll just be in exactly the same position as in the Indyref. Which is probably what the Tories are counting on.

Agree with all of that. The last thing we should be doing is campaigning for REMAIN on Cameron's terms (whatever they are) - especially if he isn't going to do that FFS! We will be on the wrong side whatever the outcome then ... don't do his bloody campaigning for him. It's not difficult - why can't we learn that lesson?

Why can't Labour itself remain neutral? Let MPs join whichever campaign they wish? That seems to be what Cameron is going to do.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:16 am

NonOxCol wrote:This one speaks for itself:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not because it might be libellous, but because it's - hey - just another sex scandal. And yet none of the other stuff is newsworthy either. But a story about someone else that was retracted 28 years ago *was* newsworthy just last week.

BBC news values.

It's not just any 'sex scandal' though - this is Fraud Cashcroft, fixer of polls, funder of the Tory hegemony and scourge of Belize - dunno, but it seems to me that it's open season on Prime Ministers (Harper/Canada - Abbott/Australia and now our very own vapid pucefaced pisstrumpet is in trouble (hopefully))

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:19 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:I just don't see how he will get away with that - Labour should simply shout "its YOUR referendum, the one YOU wanted" at him non stop.
I'm worried that the pressure that has already clearly been exerted on Corbyn from certain parts / people in Labour re Europe will not allow Corbyn and the SC to see the trap for what it is and do the sensible thing that you suggest ... i.e. keep shouting it's YOUR referendum.

I actually think neutrality might also be a better position for Labour if Cameron and the Tories are going to take that stance. We really shouldn't be the front runners in any of the campaign stuff for Cameron's referendum.
Whatever line the Official Pig-Sticker In Chief eventually adopts, there is nothing stopping Labour running their own campaign supporting a yes vote on *their* terms.

None of the "clarification" since JC became leader has excluded that possibility.

I don't think that will be a realistic distinction for most people ... and with the Tories in power for the next 5 years at least, genuinely not something likely to be able to be realised ... and I can't see the media being able or willing to accurately portray the relative complexity of that approach. It will just be hammered out as, and understood by most as, Labour for Remain and Cameron's package. We should back away. Be neutral as well - especially as it's not our referendum, not our package, not our terms of play in any sense - and let MPs join whichever campaign they wish to.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:20 am

Lonewolfie wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:This one speaks for itself:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not because it might be libellous, but because it's - hey - just another sex scandal. And yet none of the other stuff is newsworthy either. But a story about someone else that was retracted 28 years ago *was* newsworthy just last week.

BBC news values.
It's not just any 'sex scandal' though - this is Fraud Cashcroft, fixer of polls, funder of the Tory hegemony and scourge of Belize - dunno, but it seems to me that it's open season on Prime Ministers (Harper/Canada - Abbott/Australia and now our very own vapid pucefaced pisstrumpet is in trouble (hopefully))

Harper, Abbott and Cameron. What a trio that is.

Ashcroft at the Tory conference should be interesting.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:22 am

RobertSnozers wrote: At the very least, Labour should avoid campaigning FOR remaining in if that's what it takes. Otherwise they'll just be in exactly the same position as in the Indyref. Which is probably what the Tories are counting on

Not quite sure about this, what screwed Labour there was surely campaigning jointly WITH THE TORIES?

No intrinsic reason why a seperate pro-union campaign *on their terms* wouldn't have worked (indeed there was some of this in the final days before the referendum, but the narrative was already firmly set by then - and the scenes of Jim sodding Murphy and others celebrating with Tories just put the lid on it)

Even the most ardent Europhiles within Labour don't seem to be asking for shared platforms this time (though I wonder if this was Chuka's "transitional demand" to Jez?)

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:24 am

Nice one on twitter showing Jezza at PMQs. Caption reads:
I have a question from Peppa: 'Should I be worried?'

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:28 am

I have so many to choose from but have so far been behaving myself... almost, but at a time like this may I ask just one thing of everybody please?

I hold no brief for Rebekah and have heard some stories about her and Dave, but why is everyone casting such aspersions about her?

Is that one a little too cruel?

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Mon 21 Sep, 2015 10:33 am

@rebeccariots2

Jeremy has already branded Dave and Tories as poverty deniers, rr2>