Monday 5th October 2015

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LadyCentauria
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Monday 5th October 2015

Post by LadyCentauria »

Mornin' all.

Well, what charmers the Tax Payers' Alliance are. </sarcasm> I didn't think I could be surprised by anything they come out with but this... words fail me:
Mr Wild said the Tories could not wait until a year before the next election to make the necessary cuts to the winter fuel allowance, free bus passes, the Christmas bonus and other pensioner benefits.
The cuts should be made "as soon as possible after an election for two reasons", said Mr Wild.
"The first of which will sound a little bit morbid - some of the people... won't be around to vote against you in the next election. So that's just a practical point, and the other point is they might have forgotten by then."
He added: "If you did it now, chances are that in 2020 someone who has had their winter fuel cut might be thinking, 'Oh I can't remember, was it this government or was it the last one? I'm not quite sure.'
"So on a purely practical basis I would say do it immediately. That might be one of those things I regret saying in later life but that would be my practical advice to the government."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34439965
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yahyah
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by yahyah »

LadyCentauria wrote:Mornin' all.

Well, what charmers the Tax Payers' Alliance are. </sarcasm> I didn't think I could be surprised by anything they come out with but this... words fail me:
Mr Wild said the Tories could not wait until a year before the next election to make the necessary cuts to the winter fuel allowance, free bus passes, the Christmas bonus and other pensioner benefits.
The cuts should be made "as soon as possible after an election for two reasons", said Mr Wild.
"The first of which will sound a little bit morbid - some of the people... won't be around to vote against you in the next election. So that's just a practical point, and the other point is they might have forgotten by then."
He added: "If you did it now, chances are that in 2020 someone who has had their winter fuel cut might be thinking, 'Oh I can't remember, was it this government or was it the last one? I'm not quite sure.'
"So on a purely practical basis I would say do it immediately. That might be one of those things I regret saying in later life but that would be my practical advice to the government."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34439965

That's awful for so many reasons.
The idea's probably being lapped up at No 10.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Aaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggggh.

Osborne on Radio 4. Give the interviewer her due she is repeatedly trying to get him answer whether the tax credit cuts will leave some working people worse off.

He is giving the 'typical family' - 'in the round' - 'in the context of the living wage going up and tax coming down' .... endlessly in his attempt to not answer the question.

He is repellent in his avoidance tactics and hypocritical concern for 'the very lowest paid in our country' who will be affected if we don't have a Tory government looking after our 'economic security'.

Big barf bag supply needed today.

Morning all.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by yahyah »

RebeccaRiots@

I thought of you while enduring Charles Moore's Thatcher love-in on Radio 4.
Is your radio still in one piece ?
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by yahyah »

Image

Where are HindleA's ripe tomatoes when you need them ?

Alex Wild, he so keen to see pensioners demented or shuffling off this mortal coil, is the one on the right.

& look who else is there. Mark Littlewood, Liam Fox sans Adam Werrity,
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

yahyah wrote:RebeccaRiots@

I thought of you while enduring Charles Moore's Thatcher love-in on Radio 4.
Is your radio still in one piece ?
Thanks be I missed that item ...

It's got a shortened arial but still just about standing. I'm not sure how long that will last. This Tory conference could be the end game for it.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Kevin Maguire ‏@Kevin_Maguire 9m9 minutes ago
Osborne isn't stupid so trying to deceive on tax credits. Not a good sound on @BBCr4today
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Julia Hartley-Brewer ‏@JuliaHB1 32m32 minutes ago
So the govt is offering to sell me - at a 5% discount - shares in a bank that I already own through a taxpayer funded bailout. Gee, thanks.
Quite.

Will there be a grey voter stampede to buy these?

I wouldn't want shares in a bank - full stop. Certainly not with this bunch in government. A green peoples investment bank - maybe.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

John McDonnell ‏@johnmcdonnellMP 30m30 minutes ago
Not many people losing £1300 a year in tax credits who will be looking forward to buying Lloyd's shares.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by yahyah »

It's always a difficult one, whether to benefit oneself from Tory policies, or let others take advantage financially but abstain oneself because of moral objections.

edited to add....that's how right wingers make money, lack of scruples.
Last edited by yahyah on Mon 05 Oct, 2015 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Morning all.

Page 19 of the Labour manifesto:
Building world-class infrastructure will be crucial to fostering economic growth. We will create certainty for investors by taking a long-term approach to the major investment decisions facing the country. We will set up an independent National Infrastructure Commission to assess how best to meet Britain’s infrastructure needs. It will make recommendations to government, monitor their implementation, and hold government to account. These measures and our long-term approach will help reinforce Britain’s status as one of the world’s greatest centres of science and engineering.
Labour setting the agenda as usual...Ed Balls will have a wry smile on his face if he watches Osborne announce the idea that he himself set in motion three years ago...
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tinybgoat
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by tinybgoat »

LadyCentauria wrote:Mornin' all.

Well, what charmers the Tax Payers' Alliance are. </sarcasm> I didn't think I could be surprised by anything they come out with but this... words fail me:
Mr Wild said the Tories could not wait until a year before the next election to make the necessary cuts to the winter fuel allowance, free bus passes, the Christmas bonus and other pensioner benefits.
The cuts should be made "as soon as possible after an election for two reasons", said Mr Wild.
"The first of which will sound a little bit morbid - some of the people... won't be around to vote against you in the next election. So that's just a practical point, and the other point is they might have forgotten by then."
He added: "If you did it now, chances are that in 2020 someone who has had their winter fuel cut might be thinking, 'Oh I can't remember, was it this government or was it the last one? I'm not quite sure.'
"So on a purely practical basis I would say do it immediately. That might be one of those things I regret saying in later life but that would be my practical advice to the government."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34439965

Vile.

They were on radio2 (jeremy vine show :)) arguing against young doctors views, & pop up regularly on radio news/current affairs providing same function.

Some information about their funding on:-
http://powerbase.info/index.php/Taxpayers'_Alliance
Most of the known Taxpayers’ Alliance funders also donate money to the Conservative Party, these donors include Anthony Bamford ,
Robert Edmiston , Stuart Wheeler, Christopher Kelly , Patrick Barbour ,
Rocco Forte and Tony Gallagher . Two of them, Stuart Wheeler and
Patrick Barbour, donate to UKIP and one, Tony Gallagher , has given donations to both the Labour Party and the Conservative Party.

Also interesting about providing 'churnalism',
cheap copy for the press,though sounds familiar so may have read this on ftn previously?
Paul Lashmar, an investigative reporter and lecturer in journalism at University College Falmouth, told the Independent that there was 'a direct relation between the rise of the TPA and the pressures news organisations'. He argued that:
'Journalists are often now so overstretched that a lot of work that used to be carried out in the newsroom is carried out by groups like the TPA. You don't see extensive research anymore whereas it used to be commonplace in Sunday papers to have exercises where, for example, you would ring around every MP for their opinions as the TPA has done numerous times'.
Lashmar went on to say that:
'What you see now is journalists who are grateful for news which is almost perfectly packaged to go into the paper with a ready top line. In that sense, journalism is becoming very passive. It is a processor of other people's information rather than being engaged in actively seeking out and determining what the truth of a situation is in an energetic and inquisitive way.'

Transparency rating 'E', for who funds them:-
http://whofundsyou.org/org/taxpayers-alliance



Independent article on Labour eurosceptic group having links to TPA:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 93998.html
Labour for Britain is co-chaired by MPs Kate Hoey, Kelvin Hopkins and Graham Stringer, while the millionaire party donor John Mills acts as its secretary. A number of prominent new supporters are expected to be announced at the Labour conference in three weeks’ time.
The group’s website says it will push for “changes which ensure that our laws are made in London rather than Brussels”. It continues: “Labour voters want to see reform and the Labour Party should champion their wishes.”
However, its origins indicate it has connections well outside the Labour fold. To the surprise of senior party figures, its website is registered in the name of Matthew Elliott, the chief executive of Business for Britain and the founder of the Taxpayers’ Alliance. It is registered at 55 Tufton Street in Westminster, the same address as Business for Britain and the Taxpayers’ Alliance.
(Morning)
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Owen Smith ‏@OwenSmith_MP 11m11 minutes ago
New Tory MPs concede working people will be worse off due to Tax Credit cuts, but say they'll 'pick 'these' people up'. How? @BBCr4today
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danesclose
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by danesclose »

Morning,
Saw it was mentioned briefly last night (AK described it as a "small earthquake in Chile" story) but the current lead on today's Guardian website is Adonis resigning the Labour whip to work on infrastructure projects.
Can't be bothered to check (have more important things to do than check up on the uber-Blairite) but didn't he defect to Labour from the LDs?
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by danesclose »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Owen Smith ‏@OwenSmith_MP 11m11 minutes ago
New Tory MPs concede working people will be worse off due to Tax Credit cuts, but say they'll 'pick 'these' people up'. How? @BBCr4today
Possibly retrain the steel workers being made redundant as bus & taxi drivers?
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danesclose
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by danesclose »

LadyCentauria wrote:Mornin' all.

Well, what charmers the Tax Payers' Alliance are. </sarcasm> I didn't think I could be surprised by anything they come out with but this... words fail me:
Mr Wild said the Tories could not wait until a year before the next election to make the necessary cuts to the winter fuel allowance, free bus passes, the Christmas bonus and other pensioner benefits.
The cuts should be made "as soon as possible after an election for two reasons", said Mr Wild.
"The first of which will sound a little bit morbid - some of the people... won't be around to vote against you in the next election. So that's just a practical point, and the other point is they might have forgotten by then."
He added: "If you did it now, chances are that in 2020 someone who has had their winter fuel cut might be thinking, 'Oh I can't remember, was it this government or was it the last one? I'm not quite sure.'
"So on a purely practical basis I would say do it immediately. That might be one of those things I regret saying in later life but that would be my practical advice to the government."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34439965
Does anyone know how to join the Tax Payers' Alliance? I thought that as a tax payer I could sign up & start to make them slightly more representative.
I've looked on their website but their don't seem to be any options on how to sign up.
There also don't seem to be any indication about how much their people get paid, which surprised me, given the stink they made about how much trade union general secretaries were paid.
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

danesclose wrote:Morning,
Saw it was mentioned briefly last night (AK described it as a "small earthquake in Chile" story) but the current lead on today's Guardian website is Adonis resigning the Labour whip to work on infrastructure projects.
Can't be bothered to check (have more important things to do than check up on the uber-Blairite) but didn't he defect to Labour from the LDs?
He was briefly a PPC for the Lib Dems according to wikipedia but resigned from them after 18 months.

He is still a member of Labour - has just resigned the Labour whip so he won't be voting with them - and classed as an independent peer I understand.
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utopiandreams
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

yahyah wrote:It's always a difficult one, whether to benefit oneself from Tory policies, or let others take advantage financially but abstain oneself because of moral objections.

edited to add....that's how right wingers make money, lack of scruples.
Not too difficult, yahyah, well not in my experience. Even going back to 80/90s apart from the feel good factor, I've just compared waistlines in the ensuing years. Half-hearted apologies to whoever takes offence... at least I can still run away faster than being chased... Ooh, me back!

Sorry folks, no offence intended after all!

Edit replaced 'if' by 'in'
Last edited by utopiandreams on Mon 05 Oct, 2015 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

yahyah wrote:... & look who else is there. Mark Littlewood, Liam Fox sans Adam Werrity,
Are you sure, yahyah. Why is the table so draped?
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rebeccariots2
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by rebeccariots2 »

Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 28s29 seconds ago
22 April 2014:PM spurns Armitt's call for National Infrastructure Commission - UK already has an infrastructure plan https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... at-skanska" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
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yahyah
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by yahyah »

utopiandreams wrote:
yahyah wrote:It's always a difficult one, whether to benefit oneself from Tory policies, or let others take advantage financially but abstain oneself because of moral objections.

edited to add....that's how right wingers make money, lack of scruples.
Not too difficult, yahyah, well not in my experience. Even going back to 80/90s apart from the feel good factor, I've just compared waistlines if the ensuing years. Half-hearted apologies to whoever takes offence... at least I can still run away faster than being chased... Ooh, me back!

Sorry folks, no offence intended after all!

I still hold a grudge about a then best friend that I fell out with as she supported Foot, I thought Dennis Healey would do better for Labour. Her left wing credentials were impeccable.

But, bogger me, guess who took out a loan on a credit card to buy shares in the Tory privatisations ?
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

danesclose wrote:... Possibly retrain the steel workers being made redundant as bus & taxi drivers?
Please don't accuse them of overreach, danesclose, whippet-trainers be more what they have in mind. After all, where's the steel for buses and taxis going to come from?
Last edited by utopiandreams on Mon 05 Oct, 2015 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by danesclose »

utopiandreams wrote:After all, where's the steel for cars and taxis going to come from?
China
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yahyah
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by yahyah »

''Welcome to Toryland, a heartless place with no room for kindness''

''They will not welcome this column, or me, in Manchester today. I’ll survive.

But I fear the British values of fairness, justice and humanitarianism will not fare so well under this authoritarian, unaccountable government, and its slippery leader.''


:clap: Well said Jasmin.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/wel ... 79231.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by yahyah »

Chap just called to read the electricity meter.

He tells us the Smart meters are now not going to be compulsory, but that 1,800 jobs will still be lost. He seemed pretty fed up.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by utopiandreams »

danesclose wrote:
utopiandreams wrote:After all, where's the steel for cars and taxis going to come from?
China
It's good to know the occupants of Numbers 10 & 11 have their priorities right, danesclose. You don't suppose George had perhaps confused sow's ears for David's silk purse before advising him on his pig-semen sales trip a year or two back, do you?
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by RogerOThornhill »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 28s29 seconds ago
22 April 2014:PM spurns Armitt's call for National Infrastructure Commission - UK already has an infrastructure plan https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... at-skanska" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Oh dear...

:D
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ephemerid
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by ephemerid »

utopiandreams wrote:
danesclose wrote:... Possibly retrain the steel workers being made redundant as bus & taxi drivers?
Please don't accuse them of overreach, danesclose, whippet-trainers be more what they have in mind. After all, where's the steel for buses and taxis going to come from?

I suspect that the redundant steel workers will be given work as follows:

In the Desolate North - they will be engaged in hydraulic fracturing of rock; if they survive the gassing, their water will be contaminated thus poisoning them and their whippets. Survivors will migrate to the South East, where they will get a job but be socially cleansed in time and sent to Hull.

In Death Border Wales - they will be expected to work in call-centres in prisons alongside the inmates. In time, they will be merged with the prison population and all will be sent to a new super-prison currently being built for them in Wrexham. Their corgis and collies will be culled with the badgers.

All of this "re-training" will be managed by Serco and G4S, with "health checks" delivered by Atos and Maximus.
Sanctions will include - removal of flat caps for the Desolate Northerners; and a singing and rugby ban for the Death Border Welsh.

Meanwhile, steel workers in Canada will be working their socks off for Roman Abramovitch, who will spend the £45 Million of our money he scrounged off Osborne to invest in jobs for them.

Roman Abramovitch's net worth is $13.6 Billion. You could feed a few whippets and steel workers for that.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by PorFavor »

rebeccariots2 wrote:
danesclose wrote:Morning,
Saw it was mentioned briefly last night (AK described it as a "small earthquake in Chile" story) but the current lead on today's Guardian website is Adonis resigning the Labour whip to work on infrastructure projects.
Can't be bothered to check (have more important things to do than check up on the uber-Blairite) but didn't he defect to Labour from the LDs?
He was briefly a PPC for the Lib Dems according to wikipedia but resigned from them after 18 months.

He is still a member of Labour - has just resigned the Labour whip so he won't be voting with them - and classed as an independent peer I understand.
The thing that confuses me about Andrew Adonis is his perceived expertise in all things. If I remember correctly, he was originally created a Lord in order that his expertise in the field of education could be utilised by the then government. Fair enough, you might say. But apparently, over time, he's become an expert in everything.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by PorFavor »

Good morfternoon.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

danesclose wrote:Morning,
Saw it was mentioned briefly last night (AK described it as a "small earthquake in Chile" story) but the current lead on today's Guardian website is Adonis resigning the Labour whip to work on infrastructure projects.
Can't be bothered to check (have more important things to do than check up on the uber-Blairite) but didn't he defect to Labour from the LDs?
The only party with which he got elected to anything was the SDP.

This was being spun last night as a major defection - its certainly not the latter and its arguable how "major" it is either.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by RogerOThornhill »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
danesclose wrote:Morning,
Saw it was mentioned briefly last night (AK described it as a "small earthquake in Chile" story) but the current lead on today's Guardian website is Adonis resigning the Labour whip to work on infrastructure projects.
Can't be bothered to check (have more important things to do than check up on the uber-Blairite) but didn't he defect to Labour from the LDs?
The only party with which he got elected to anything was the SDP.

This was being spun last night as a major defection - its certainly not the latter and its arguable how "major" it is either.
It's a public body and not a ministerial post so not really a defection at all. Not unless you count quangos as a party.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by danesclose »

Proud to be part of The Indecent Minority.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by gilsey »

Thanks for the comments yesterday on tax credit cuts v poll tax.
Fwiw I agree with Toby, people have changed. There's always been a selfish minority, it's got bigger and more selfish over the last 20 years.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by citizenJA »

gilsey wrote:Thanks for the comments yesterday on tax credit cuts v poll tax.
Fwiw I agree with Toby, people have changed. There's always been a selfish minority, it's got bigger and more selfish over the last 20 years.
My partner and I have discussed this issue; the changes in expectations, responsibilities, moving away from the 'we' and thinking only of 'me'. It's more than sad. The problem is exacerbated by the global challenges creating more stress, greater fear. It takes work to get a group of people together and cooperate with them all. But it's the only way to protect each other and succeed.

Good-morning.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by PorFavor »

MichaelWhite @MichaelWhite

Rumours that Tory queue now 90 minutes long. Vultures arriving from as far away as Didsbury to feast off older delegates
10:29 AM - 5 Oct 2015 (Politics Live, Guardian)
The Tax Payers' Alliance don't miss an opportunity when it presents, do they?
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by citizenJA »

RobertSnozers wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
danesclose wrote:Morning,
Saw it was mentioned briefly last night (AK described it as a "small earthquake in Chile" story) but the current lead on today's Guardian website is Adonis resigning the Labour whip to work on infrastructure projects.
Can't be bothered to check (have more important things to do than check up on the uber-Blairite) but didn't he defect to Labour from the LDs?
He was briefly a PPC for the Lib Dems according to wikipedia but resigned from them after 18 months.

He is still a member of Labour - has just resigned the Labour whip so he won't be voting with them - and classed as an independent peer I understand.
As defections go, it's not exactly Benedict Arnold, is it?
No, it's not.

I'm not keen on his project plans, what I know of them.
I'm disappointed the Armitt review isn't being consulted.

Adonis wants a hand in working on projects and he's willing to do the work with current government.
I hope something good for everyone comes of it.

edited to add that it would seem the Armitt review is the plan after all!
edited some more attempting greater clarity.

Adonis is using Armitt's review, a Labour commissioned project.
Last edited by citizenJA on Mon 05 Oct, 2015 12:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by citizenJA »

RogerOThornhill wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Patrick Wintour ‏@patrickwintour 28s29 seconds ago
22 April 2014:PM spurns Armitt's call for National Infrastructure Commission - UK already has an infrastructure plan https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... at-skanska" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Oh dear...

:D
Oops!
Yep, the Armitt National Infrastructure review is apparently the plan!
I'm encouraged - good things in there.

http://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/n ... cture-plan
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citizenJA
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by citizenJA »

Labour embraces Armitt’s National Infrastructure Commission as key to ending policy drift.

Sir John Armitt’s vision to bolster the UK’s longterm infrastructure planning with an independent National Infrastructure Commission moved closer towards reality this week with publication of a draft Bill and a proposed implementation timetable for consultation.

http://www.infrastructure-intelligence. ... licy-drift
09 July 2014
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by RogerOThornhill »

I see the Conservative teachers website must be getting short of actual teachers to write for them and has Toby Young pen his usual "aren't free schools so much better than the others?".

http://conservativeteachers.com/2015/10 ... n-reforms/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And I note the usual fudging around Ofsted data.
that a quarter of free schools inspected by Ofsted so far have been ranked “Outstanding”, compared to a national average of around 10 per cent,
OK, let's take a look at the Ofsted number.

http://dataview.ofsted.gov.uk/#/Tab/?pe ... 4040694108" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Image

So not 10% at all - in fact it's 20%.

Failing?

All schools........2%
Free schools.....4%....and that doesn't include the three that closed so it'll be more like 6%.

Given the rhetoric you'd have expected them all to be Outstanding - it's the failing ones that matter and not once have I seen a single mention of those.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Though both Lords (Chris) Smith and (Jeff) Rooker behaved as Adonis has done when taking up similar positions.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by ephemerid »

citizenJA wrote:
gilsey wrote:Thanks for the comments yesterday on tax credit cuts v poll tax.
Fwiw I agree with Toby, people have changed. There's always been a selfish minority, it's got bigger and more selfish over the last 20 years.
My partner and I have discussed this issue; the changes in expectations, responsibilities, moving away from the 'we' and thinking only of 'me'. It's more than sad. The problem is exacerbated by the global challenges creating more stress, greater fear. It takes work to get a group of people together and cooperate with them all. But it's the only way to protect each other and succeed.

Good-morning.

Exactly, Citizen.

The modern Tory mindset - despite all the husky hugging - is "I'm all right Jack" with a dose of "We know what's good for you".

Those of us at the lower end of the income distribution (by which I mean anyone with less than the median) are struggling, especially if they have high rents to pay, are tied to expensive mortgages on over-priced homes, have people (old or young) to care for, and who are single (a group neglected in the press, but who are suffering under the cosh as much as the usual groups).

It's human nature to become closed in and protective of what you have, especially if it's not much. People are desperate to keep their homes and jobs, feed their families, and try to juggle all the balls in the air. There was a page in the Sun on Sunday (yes, I know...) which had real people on salaries of less than £7,000 a year pictured with captions of how much they will lose under the tax credit changes - none of them were losing less than £1,000, some of them quite a bit more. In those circumstances, you can almost forgive them for not giving a shit about the sick and disabled; the logic being that ill people get benefits for not working, while workers are doing the best they can but get hit with massive cuts to their incomes.

No wonder the divide-and-rule tactics work so well.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by PorFavor »

On a presentational level, that was a well-crafted speech given by George Osborne - his leadership aspiration being obvious. (I couldn't help thinking of the Vicar of Altarnun, though.)

The only things missing were the high-viz vest and hard-hat.




Edited to tidy up
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by ohsocynical »

gilsey wrote:Thanks for the comments yesterday on tax credit cuts v poll tax.
Fwiw I agree with Toby, people have changed. There's always been a selfish minority, it's got bigger and more selfish over the last 20 years.
I think there has always been greedy and selfish people, but the Tories have made it acceptable.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

yahyah wrote:Chap just called to read the electricity meter.

He tells us the Smart meters are now not going to be compulsory, but that 1,800 jobs will still be lost. He seemed pretty fed up.
Always was going to be compulsory.

Rolled out as part of DECCs smart meter program, as opposed to today where solutions are provided by individual electricity suppliers.

A small charge will be added to every bill to pay for them.

They provide zero benefit to the consumer, the implementation is hopelessly constrained so forget about Smart Grid capabilities, and they introduce a massive security vulnerability to the UK. But they mean the suppliers can save money by getting rid of some meter readers, so that is ok then.

Utter shambles, caused by UK Gov being technically clueless and in thrall to energy companies.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by Willow904 »

So local councils are to enjoy the heady choice of jobs or services, in Osborne's mini version of the global race to the bottom. I note he's not about to allow councils the same autonomy to reverse his corporation tax cuts, though.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by citizenJA »

ephemerid wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
gilsey wrote:Thanks for the comments yesterday on tax credit cuts v poll tax.
Fwiw I agree with Toby, people have changed. There's always been a selfish minority, it's got bigger and more selfish over the last 20 years.
My partner and I have discussed this issue; the changes in expectations, responsibilities, moving away from the 'we' and thinking only of 'me'. It's more than sad. The problem is exacerbated by the global challenges creating more stress, greater fear. It takes work to get a group of people together and cooperate with them all. But it's the only way to protect each other and succeed.

Good-morning.
Exactly, Citizen.

The modern Tory mindset - despite all the husky hugging - is "I'm all right Jack" with a dose of "We know what's good for you".

Those of us at the lower end of the income distribution (by which I mean anyone with less than the median) are struggling, especially if they have high rents to pay, are tied to expensive mortgages on over-priced homes, have people (old or young) to care for, and who are single (a group neglected in the press, but who are suffering under the cosh as much as the usual groups).

It's human nature to become closed in and protective of what you have, especially if it's not much. People are desperate to keep their homes and jobs, feed their families, and try to juggle all the balls in the air. There was a page in the Sun on Sunday (yes, I know...) which had real people on salaries of less than £7,000 a year pictured with captions of how much they will lose under the tax credit changes - none of them were losing less than £1,000, some of them quite a bit more. In those circumstances, you can almost forgive them for not giving a shit about the sick and disabled; the logic being that ill people get benefits for not working, while workers are doing the best they can but get hit with massive cuts to their incomes.

No wonder the divide-and-rule tactics work so well.
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Your compassion is beautiful and necessary.
I ponder what you've written above in some form or another daily.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by TechnicalEphemera »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Though both Lords (Chris) Smith and (Jeff) Rooker behaved as Adonis has done when taking up similar positions.
Adonis is quite clear it is not a defection and he remains a Labour member.

It is however an example of what happens when you lose elections and are increasingly seen as an irrelevance to the running of the country.

Plus Osborne does this a lot, sadly for him, you can only hide reality with rhetoric and committees for so long.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Though both Lords (Chris) Smith and (Jeff) Rooker behaved as Adonis has done when taking up similar positions.
Adonis is quite clear it is not a defection and he remains a Labour member.

It is however an example of what happens when you lose elections and are increasingly seen as an irrelevance to the running of the country.

Plus Osborne does this a lot, sadly for him, you can only hide reality with rhetoric and committees for so long.
Brown was also quite fond of it, tbf.

And it started almost as soon as Labour lost office in 2010, so drawing any wider conclusions from this development is a bit of a stretch.
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Re: Monday 5th October 2015

Post by citizenJA »

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Though both Lords (Chris) Smith and (Jeff) Rooker behaved as Adonis has done when taking up similar positions.
Adonis is quite clear it is not a defection and he remains a Labour member.

It is however an example of what happens when you lose elections and are increasingly seen as an irrelevance to the running of the country.

Plus Osborne does this a lot, sadly for him, you can only hide reality with rhetoric and committees for so long.
If good results can come of Tories taking Labour ideas and expertise, fine.
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