Thursday October 15th 2015

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 6:45 am

Good morning, everyone.

This is the first time in a month that I have slept for more than 3 hours - insomnia is a real bugger sometimes. I get these bouts of it now and then - I don't sleep a lot usually; but when it's like this I can go for weeks with just an hour or so of fitful sleep.
This is why I haven't been posting much - I know how fractious and irritable this lack of sleep makes me; I know that if I get myself wound up I'm likely to say things I don't mean; and know that my black dogs of depression aren't far away......

The last few days' posts have been quite difficult to read. Some of you are clearly low at the moment, and I can relate to that.
Most of us here really do care about politics - it just isn't something we can be dispassionate about.
The past 8 months have been a rollercoaster of emotion for some of us - that's certainly true for me - and some people here have expressed their feelings of anger, frustration, elation, hope, and even despair. I can relate to that too.

I think Labour supporters are in uncharted territory right now. This "broad church" we are part of is now being led by someone who was never expected to be Labour leader; and I absolutely understand why the moderates/centre/whatever are concerned.
I also understand why Corbyn supporters are hopeful and want to see some real change to the status quo. I think it is as unhelpful to call those people evangelists as it is to call the moderates Blairites - that way factionalism lies.

It has been a very long time since the leading Tories had a patrician sense of noblesse oblige; decades, in fact. It has been every bit as long since Labour offered a truly left-wing alternative. The centre ground has inched inexorably to the right for years now.
Both of the main parties have, for a long time, shown the same sort of characteristics; their upper echelons are nearly all professional politicians who toe the party line and who all look and sound the same, who all appear to be detached from the electorate.

"The left" - and I include the Greens and some LibDems as well as some Labour supporters - is a movement, not a party. For the first time in ages, people are talking about "the left" again. Some are enthused, some are dismissive, some are worried.
All across Europe, people are fed up with government by technocrat; they are fed up with austerity imposed by politicians who are often just a front for financiers; they are becoming engaged with politics again and they are hungry for change.

Corbyn's win is a reflection of that. We hear a lot about well-known Labour MPs who won't work with him etc. but we don't hear much (yet) from the less well-known ones on the left who have kept quiet and toed the party line for a long time in the interests of unity.
Now it is their turn - and whether Corbyn is able to bring the party together, bring in other left-wing support, and make a difference in opposition, only time will tell. It's very early days yet - but nobody can deny that he has succeeded in bringing a breath of fresh air and many new people into a party that was drifting, leaderless, and making errors of judgement when Milband fell on his sword.

So please - those of you who are low and depressed, whichever "side" you're on, be gentle with yourselves and others. Let's all be mindful of how we post, careful not to be be too didactic, and slower to take offence when none was intended.
And - those of you who are upbeat and/or utterly certain that you are right, please spare a thought for those among us who are feeling down or even despairing. Let's all do our best to be kind, even when we don't agree.

This place is very special to me - I understand why some folks take a break now and then and I understand why they stomp off in a huff, as I've done both on occasion - and I want it to be a place of earnest and respectful discussion, which it can be at it's best.
So TGS, RS - I know how you feel. Please stay. This is a poorer place without you. AAW and pk1 - if you're reading, I miss you.

Time for some Lavazza espresso! (The coffee and walnut cake is for later. You may all have a slice if you play nice....)

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 6:54 am

Morning Ephemerid

Great post. Thanks.

Well what a surprise. A good, balanced analysis from the BBC! It's on the Kent Grammar School story

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34535739" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 7:37 am

Mornin' all - and thanks, @ephe, for a beautiful post to wake up to (and before I, probably, doze off again...) We do need to be gentle with one another.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 8:09 am

Ideal - knitted (crocheted ?) JC for the top of the tree

: CRTIZLSWUAAfbhK.jpg (40.31 KiB) Viewed 8997 times

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 8:42 am

Morning

Final day of Committee for the Welfare and Work Bill,latest attempted amendments listed here ,for those interested:-

http://services.parliament.uk/bills/201 ... ments.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 8:49 am

http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/media- ... a-bad-idea" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"5 reasons why a return to grammar school is bad "-Policy Exchange

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 8:59 am

CQC State of Care Report,currently live coverage of launch:-

http://www.cqc.org.uk/content/state-car ... ched-today" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 9:29 am

On the grammar school issue, I note this bit:

At the heart of the legal opposition is the fact that the new site in Sevenoaks is nearly nine miles from the site of Weald of Kent school in Tonbridge. The Times reports that the school will attempt to get around the legal objections by bussing pupils and staff between the two sites on a weekly basis.

I'm wondering whether the DfE have realised, given the delay in the decision, that the best way to test this is through the courts so have let it go through on the understanding that there will be a judicial review.

I can't see that being accepted in the courts - you could bus kids from two separate schools anywhere - it doesn't make them the same school. If they have two separate HTs then they will be different schools.

Stagger Lee · Post by **Stagger Lee** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 9:34 am

Can anyone explain to me the logic in the house rising for the Lib Dem conference (8 MPs) but not the SNP one (56 MPs ) .

I assume it's for a historical, and probably arcane, reason but it is a nonsense.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 9:40 am

Stagger Lee wrote:Can anyone explain to me the logic in the house rising for the Lib Dem conference (8 MPs) but not the SNP one (56 MPs ) .

I assume it's for a historical, and probably arcane, reason but it is a nonsense.

There's no reason why they couldn't have had their conference in the recess. They're largely playing to two different audiences now so they could have held them at the same time as the LibDems.

Stagger Lee · Post by **Stagger Lee** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 9:54 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
Stagger Lee wrote:Can anyone explain to me the logic in the house rising for the Lib Dem conference (8 MPs) but not the SNP one (56 MPs ) .

I assume it's for a historical, and probably arcane, reason but it is a nonsense.
There's no reason why they couldn't have had their conference in the recess. They're largely playing to two different audiences now so they could have held them at the same time as the LibDems.

Cheers. I assume that both parties had it all booked in ahead of the election so maybe they will do just that next year.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 10:08 am

Amusing myself by thinking of an inebriated kung-fu fighter.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 10:13 am

https://www.jrf.org.uk/blog/prices-migh ... re-fragile" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the past, benefit levels would increase with prices to ensure a consistent standard of living; for the next four years they will not change. To ensure security and stability for low-income working families, flexibility is needed: benefit uprating policy should be reviewed annually rather than set four years in advance.

Not much hope for the future, if you're already struggling. Living standards have fallen dramatically over the last few years and Tory policy appears to be deliberately trying to lock in that drop on a permanent basis.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 10:19 am

Looks as if it could be a long winter too, we've had the coldest October morning temperatures for years here.

Gas & electricity bills haven't rocketed this year, but for people on squeezed incomes heating costs will be an issue if we get a winter with high pressure and northern winds.

Fortunately low oil prices means domestic heating oil is at a 6 year low so people on low incomes in rural areas will fare better. But the extreme drop in price means less money from 5% VAT to the Exchequer.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 10:23 am

Work harder even if you are not expected to and be worse off if you do.#longtermeconomicscam

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 10:23 am

Am a bit low this morning as have a nasty bug, was awake half the night with raging sore throat and congestion.

So maybe even less optimistic than usual.
But is it completely daft to think that the Tories don't actually want a thriving economy ?
The worse things get, the more they can flog off and shrink the state they hate so much.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 10:25 am

@yahyah hope you feel better soon.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 10:27 am

HindleA wrote:Work harder even if you are not expected to and be worse off if you do.#longtermeconomicscam

& work harder and longer before you can retire.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 10:31 am

Didn't make me feel any better seeing Andrew Sparrow start his blog with 'There is no contest as to which is the most successful political party in the UK today.' The SNP.

Still, as with all things, what goes up must go down.

Any of that walnut cake left Ephie ?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 10:42 am

Morning.

Britain’s forests, soil and rivers worth £1.6tn, says environment secretary
Liz Truss says putting price tag on environment would help decision-making by businesses and government
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... -liz-truss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not in favour of monetising the environment. We should just accept that it has intrinsic value that is beyond pricing - priceless. This way will allow them to put high and low values on certain parts that they want to get their hands on - hide behind stupid offset systems. I think Monbiot is right on this one.

... he said that the ideas, put forward by the natural capital committee established in the last parliament, amount in the end to “complete and utter gobbledygook”.

Monbiot, a prominent environmental activist, said: “I think they are the road to ruin – to an even greater ruin than we have at the moment … You are effectively pushing the natural world even further into the system that is eating it alive.”...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 10:47 am

"The new Housing Bill is worse than expected"

http://classonline.org.uk/blog/item/the ... n-expected" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Unless this is changed in discussion, I am sure that many housing associations will begin to realise that they have been miss-sold and miss-led. The deal is not voluntary as it will be enforced by the housing regulator, the Homes and Communities Agency (HCA). There is no guarantee that funding will be available to replace homes that are sold to existing tenants and even if funds are made available, it will be in the form of a grant with strings attached. This means that the government can dictate the tenure to be built. Even if housing associations wanted to replace social rent homes that are sold under the scheme on a like for like basis, they will not be allowed to do so. Given the government’s agenda they will still insist that more homes to buy will be built."

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 10:49 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning.

Britain’s forests, soil and rivers worth £1.6tn, says environment secretary
Liz Truss says putting price tag on environment would help decision-making by businesses and government
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... -liz-truss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not in favour of monetising the environment. We should just accept that it has intrinsic value that is beyond pricing - priceless. This way will allow them to put high and low values on certain parts that they want to get their hands on - hide behind stupid offset systems. I think Monbiot is right on this one.

... he said that the ideas, put forward by the natural capital committee established in the last parliament, amount in the end to “complete and utter gobbledygook”.

Monbiot, a prominent environmental activist, said: “I think they are the road to ruin – to an even greater ruin than we have at the moment … You are effectively pushing the natural world even further into the system that is eating it alive.”...

The old saying "knows the price of everything and the value of nothing" applies to people like Truss.

It was her that started the policy of increased childcare that ended with the car crash of the defeat in the Lords last night.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 10:51 am

Joe Halewood on the Right To Buy

https://speye.wordpress.com/2015/10/15/ ... ible-mess/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 10:54 am

Gideon was scathing in 2010 when Darling proposed a Fiscal Responsibility Act

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 10:55 am

HindleA wrote:"The new Housing Bill is worse than expected"

http://classonline.org.uk/blog/item/the ... n-expected" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Unless this is changed in discussion, I am sure that many housing associations will begin to realise that they have been miss-sold and miss-led. The deal is not voluntary as it will be enforced by the housing regulator, the Homes and Communities Agency (HCA). There is no guarantee that funding will be available to replace homes that are sold to existing tenants and even if funds are made available, it will be in the form of a grant with strings attached. This means that the government can dictate the tenure to be built. Even if housing associations wanted to replace social rent homes that are sold under the scheme on a like for like basis, they will not be allowed to do so. Given the government’s agenda they will still insist that more homes to buy will be built."

The craven sell out by those at the top of the housing association tree is very depressing. They've really done a disservice to so many others in the social housing sector.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 10:56 am

Good-morning, everyone.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 10:58 am

@ yahyah
Please take care and stay warm.
Mr. citizen makes a delightful hot brandy, honey-lemon toddy.
If you'd like one, please let me know.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 11:04 am

yahyah wrote:Didn't make me feel any better seeing Andrew Sparrow start his blog with 'There is no contest as to which is the most successful political party in the UK today.' The SNP.

Still, as with all things, what goes up must go down.

Any of that walnut cake left Ephie ?

I'm afraid that's a fairly uncontestable statement - even their recent membership growth is still bigger than Labour's in relative terms.

But as you say, this is likely as good as it will ever get for them. The clouds are already forming.......

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 11:04 am

HindleA wrote:Joe Halewood on the Right To Buy

https://speye.wordpress.com/2015/10/15/ ... ible-mess/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From that this stands out as a supremely awful vision of the future (my bold):

All we need is Conservative ministers to don some shoulder pads and double-breasted suits and the 1980’s heyday of privatisation to buy votes along with RTB and this time with Pay MORE to Stay’s added to ensure that and you see where this is going.

1. Legislate and when objected to by HAs then Government nationalise as HA’s want to deny aspiration. HA’s as aspiration deniers anyone? We’ve already had that spin.
2. Conservatives declare HAs as public sector so Government nationalises to ensure RTB and the great property owning democracy can happen…and buys Osborne the 2020 election.
3. Cue Osborne selling off HAs with a privatisation flotation to ensure he is re-elected in 2025

Any objections to that schema, any negotiating advantage to that was well and truly lost the day Glorious Leader Orr proposed a voluntary deal and in doing so David Orr signed the death warrant for housing associations across the country.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 11:10 am

Kevan Jones MP ‏@KevanJonesMP 2m2 minutes ago
Minister in Commons on Redcar Steel closure now talking about £50m Govt help instead of £80m announced . What's happened to £30m in a week

Kevan Jones MP ‏@KevanJonesMP 12m12 minutes ago
Just asked Minister if Govt knows the number of Small businesses in NE effected by Redcar steel closure.Answer she doesn't know!

Owen Smith ‏@OwenSmith_MP 17m17 minutes ago
Telling admission by @annasoubrymp that the only preparatory work done by BIS in advance of Redcar closure was pricing up clean-up #givenup

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 11:19 am

@ Ephemerid
Your post is an especially good one, thank you.
I have bouts of insomnia and some times when I sleep for sixteen hours straight.
Consistent, good sleep is medicine, like getting nutritious food regularly.
Breathing fresh air, walking in my neighbourhoods, going slower than a motor vehicle (buses, cars, trains or planes) allows me to see what I'd miss if moving faster.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 11:19 am

yahyah wrote:Didn't make me feel any better seeing Andrew Sparrow start his blog with 'There is no contest as to which is the most successful political party in the UK today.' The SNP.

Still, as with all things, what goes up must go down.

Any of that walnut cake left Ephie ?

Yes - have two slices. There's a Dundee cake too, but without the almonds on the top (Co-op's closed at o3.30)

There are also some little filo borek pastries with feta and spinach; very peppery sausage rolls; and some apple and blackberry turnovers.

Extended bouts of insomnia are grim, but you get a lot done.

I've re-decorated the living room, made new curtains and cushion covers, sorted out all our stuuuuufffff and made up 6 binbags of usable things for the charity shops, and finished a very big abstract canvas.

Tonight I intend to feed the world and achieve world peace. That's if I don't get a bit of kip, obvs.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 11:43 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Kevan Jones MP ‏@KevanJonesMP 2m2 minutes ago
Minister in Commons on Redcar Steel closure now talking about £50m Govt help instead of £80m announced . What's happened to £30m in a week

Kevan Jones MP ‏@KevanJonesMP 12m12 minutes ago
Just asked Minister if Govt knows the number of Small businesses in NE effected by Redcar steel closure.Answer she doesn't know!

Owen Smith ‏@OwenSmith_MP 17m17 minutes ago
Telling admission by @annasoubrymp that the only preparatory work done by BIS in advance of Redcar closure was pricing up clean-up #givenup

Morning. There was some discussion a couple of days ago about Soubry. Well, speaking as one who was a Derbyshire teenager in the 1980s, I would go on record to state that I have never been more certain about a regional news presenter's politics than I was about hers. This was back in the day when it was pretty hard to spot bias in TV news (outside Alastair Burnet, anyway). In short, she stood out. I wouldn't be surprised if Dennis Skinner can recall her on Central News and Central Weekend as well.

Growing up, she was just about the coldest woman under 40 I remember seeing on TV.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 11:46 am

ephemerid wrote:
yahyah wrote:Didn't make me feel any better seeing Andrew Sparrow start his blog with 'There is no contest as to which is the most successful political party in the UK today.' The SNP.

Still, as with all things, what goes up must go down.

Any of that walnut cake left Ephie ?

Yes - have two slices. There's a Dundee cake too, but without the almonds on the top (Co-op's closed at o3.30)

There are also some little filo borek pastries with feta and spinach; very peppery sausage rolls; and some apple and blackberry turnovers.

Extended bouts of insomnia are grim, but you get a lot done.

I've re-decorated the living room, made new curtains and cushion covers, sorted out all our stuuuuufffff and made up 6 binbags of usable things for the charity shops, and finished a very big abstract canvas.

Tonight I intend to feed the world and achieve world peace. That's if I don't get a bit of kip, obvs.

How does Show react to your insomnia? Can he sleep through your working? Mr Ohso doesn't/can't.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 11:48 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning.

Britain’s forests, soil and rivers worth £1.6tn, says environment secretary
Liz Truss says putting price tag on environment would help decision-making by businesses and government
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... -liz-truss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not in favour of monetising the environment. We should just accept that it has intrinsic value that is beyond pricing - priceless. This way will allow them to put high and low values on certain parts that they want to get their hands on - hide behind stupid offset systems. I think Monbiot is right on this one.

... he said that the ideas, put forward by the natural capital committee established in the last parliament, amount in the end to “complete and utter gobbledygook”.

Monbiot, a prominent environmental activist, said: “I think they are the road to ruin – to an even greater ruin than we have at the moment … You are effectively pushing the natural world even further into the system that is eating it alive.”...

I find it outrageous, disturbing and not a little insane to even try to put a monetary value on the soil of any territory. Seems like a measure of just how out of whack things really are.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 11:49 am

Website launched by government for people who want to buy a house
From:Department for Communities and Local Government, HM Treasury and Prime Minister's Office, 10 Downing Street First published:15 October 2015
New website brings home ownership schemes together including Right to Buy, Help to Buy and the Help to Buy: ISA available from 1 December

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/webs ... uy-a-house

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 11:53 am

Stephen Harper: master manipulator
Despite several scandals worthy of Watergate over the past decade, Stephen Harper could win a fourth Canadian election next week. Can the master manipulator work his dark magic?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/o ... are_btn_tw

Oh well, it looks as if it's not just us who seem to have lost our morals and turn a blind eye...

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 11:56 am

ohsocynical wrote:
Stephen Harper: master manipulator
Despite several scandals worthy of Watergate over the past decade, Stephen Harper could win a fourth Canadian election next week. Can the master manipulator work his dark magic?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/o ... are_btn_tw
Oh well, it looks as if it's not just us who seem to have lost our morals and turn a blind eye...

As Harper tries for a fourth term in office at the Canadian federal election next week, he is trailed by an extraordinarily long list of allegations. In the Watergate scandal, all the president’s men were accused primarily of breaking the law to get Nixon a second term in the White House. In Canada, some of the prime minister’s men and women have been accused not simply of cheating to win elections but of conspiring to jam the machinery of democratic government.

Some of these allegations have been proved. In the 11 years since he became leader of the country’s Conservatives, the party has been fined for breaking electoral rules, and various members of Team Harper have been caught misleading parliament, gagging civil servants, subverting parliamentary committees, gagging scientists, harassing the supreme court, gagging diplomats, lying to the public, concealing evidence of potential crime, spying on opponents, bullying and smearing. Harper personally has earned himself the rare rebuke of being found to be in contempt of his parliament.

One of his many biographers, John Ibbitson of the Globe and Mail newspaper, who is more sympathetic than most, concludes: “No prime minister in history and no political party have been loathed as intensely as Stephen Harper and the Conservative party.”

Does the author of the article know about IDS and Dave?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 11:58 am

Robert Hutton ‏@RobDotHutton 18m18 minutes ago
Just found @mdawheatcroft's little book summarising UK govt finances. Looks really useful. http://amzn.to/1MrKKRD" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes it does.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 12:02 pm

NonOxCol wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Kevan Jones MP ‏@KevanJonesMP 2m2 minutes ago
Minister in Commons on Redcar Steel closure now talking about £50m Govt help instead of £80m announced . What's happened to £30m in a week

Kevan Jones MP ‏@KevanJonesMP 12m12 minutes ago
Just asked Minister if Govt knows the number of Small businesses in NE effected by Redcar steel closure.Answer she doesn't know!

Owen Smith ‏@OwenSmith_MP 17m17 minutes ago
Telling admission by @annasoubrymp that the only preparatory work done by BIS in advance of Redcar closure was pricing up clean-up #givenup
Morning. There was some discussion a couple of days ago about Soubry. Well, speaking as one who was a Derbyshire teenager in the 1980s, I would go on record to state that I have never been more certain about a regional news presenter's politics than I was about hers. This was back in the day when it was pretty hard to spot bias in TV news (outside Alastair Burnet, anyway). In short, she stood out. I wouldn't be surprised if Dennis Skinner can recall her on Central News and Central Weekend as well.

Growing up, she was just about the coldest woman under 40 I remember seeing on TV.

Soubry was once SDP - she keeps quiet about that now.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 12:05 pm

Of value to all

Margaret Prosser on the need for better monitoring of the quality of apprenticeships on offer to young people

http://www.labourlords.org.uk/of_value_to_all

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 12:07 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Stephen Harper: master manipulator
Despite several scandals worthy of Watergate over the past decade, Stephen Harper could win a fourth Canadian election next week. Can the master manipulator work his dark magic?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/o ... are_btn_tw
Oh well, it looks as if it's not just us who seem to have lost our morals and turn a blind eye...

Maybe, but perhaps not if the latest polls there (yes, I know) are to be believed........

Indeed, there is a faint chance the Canadian Tories could finish third. Probably not, but we can dream

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 12:09 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
yahyah wrote:Didn't make me feel any better seeing Andrew Sparrow start his blog with 'There is no contest as to which is the most successful political party in the UK today.' The SNP.

Still, as with all things, what goes up must go down.

Any of that walnut cake left Ephie ?
I'm afraid that's a fairly uncontestable statement - even their recent membership growth is still bigger than Labour's in relative terms.

But as you say, this is likely as good as it will ever get for them. The clouds are already forming.......

Having met a few SNP voters my worry is they create their own reality. Which means inconvenient facts are re-framed in their minds.

Some, but clearly not all, of their converts would vote for them even if it involved getting sold into slavery.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 12:14 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Morning. There was some discussion a couple of days ago about Soubry. Well, speaking as one who was a Derbyshire teenager in the 1980s, I would go on record to state that I have never been more certain about a regional news presenter's politics than I was about hers. This was back in the day when it was pretty hard to spot bias in TV news (outside Alastair Burnet, anyway). In short, she stood out. I wouldn't be surprised if Dennis Skinner can recall her on Central News and Central Weekend as well.

Growing up, she was just about the coldest woman under 40 I remember seeing on TV.
Soubry was once SDP - she keeps quiet about that now.

The producer of Central News thought she was toxic. They had to put a radioactive warning hazard sign on screen when she was on.

: ScreenShot00860.jpg (26.22 KiB) Viewed 8593 times

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 12:18 pm

Leading solar entrepreneur to put business into liquidation
Southern Solar is industry’s third high-profile casualty this month and founder Howard Johns is expected to blame government policy
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... t_b-gdneco" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lisa Nandy Retweeted
Leo Hickman ‏@LeoHickman 5h5 hours ago
"Catastrophic": @GregBarkerUK writes to the Times re: cuts to solar subsidies http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/l ... 585895.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … @AmberRudd_MP

Lisa Nandy ‏@lisanandy 10m10 minutes ago
Today's analysis from National Grid shows we now have less spare power capacity than at any time for almost a decade.

Lisa Nandy
@lisanandy 9m9 minutes ago
This could have been entirely avoided with stable energy policy & without the Chancellor's near constant attacks on clean energy investment.

Lisa Nandy ‏@lisanandy 9m9 minutes ago
The constant chopping and changing of energy policies under the Tories has put off urgently needed investment in new, clean power stations.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 12:22 pm

Jeepers Toby - what an image. 80s personified and very ominously glowing fluorescent (rather than sweetly perspiring).

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 12:28 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
yahyah wrote:Didn't make me feel any better seeing Andrew Sparrow start his blog with 'There is no contest as to which is the most successful political party in the UK today.' The SNP.

Still, as with all things, what goes up must go down.

Any of that walnut cake left Ephie ?
I'm afraid that's a fairly uncontestable statement - even their recent membership growth is still bigger than Labour's in relative terms.

But as you say, this is likely as good as it will ever get for them. The clouds are already forming.......
Having met a few SNP voters my worry is they create their own reality. Which means inconvenient facts are re-framed in their minds.

Some, but clearly not all, of their converts would vote for them even if it involved getting sold into slavery.

That's also an excellent description of Tory MPs and their followers too!

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 12:31 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Leading solar entrepreneur to put business into liquidation
Southern Solar is industry’s third high-profile casualty this month and founder Howard Johns is expected to blame government policy
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... t_b-gdneco" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lisa Nandy Retweeted
Leo Hickman ‏@LeoHickman 5h5 hours ago
"Catastrophic": @GregBarkerUK writes to the Times re: cuts to solar subsidies http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/l ... 585895.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … @AmberRudd_MP

Lisa Nandy ‏@lisanandy 10m10 minutes ago
Today's analysis from National Grid shows we now have less spare power capacity than at any time for almost a decade.

Lisa Nandy
@lisanandy 9m9 minutes ago
This could have been entirely avoided with stable energy policy & without the Chancellor's near constant attacks on clean energy investment.

Lisa Nandy ‏@lisanandy 9m9 minutes ago
The constant chopping and changing of energy policies under the Tories has put off urgently needed investment in new, clean power stations.

If they are right about a severe winter - I think at present it's 50/50 - what's that going to mean for power cuts....

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 12:39 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
ephemerid wrote:
yahyah wrote:Didn't make me feel any better seeing Andrew Sparrow start his blog with 'There is no contest as to which is the most successful political party in the UK today.' The SNP.

Still, as with all things, what goes up must go down.

Any of that walnut cake left Ephie ?

Yes - have two slices. There's a Dundee cake too, but without the almonds on the top (Co-op's closed at o3.30)

There are also some little filo borek pastries with feta and spinach; very peppery sausage rolls; and some apple and blackberry turnovers.

Extended bouts of insomnia are grim, but you get a lot done.

I've re-decorated the living room, made new curtains and cushion covers, sorted out all our stuuuuufffff and made up 6 binbags of usable things for the charity shops, and finished a very big abstract canvas.

Tonight I intend to feed the world and achieve world peace. That's if I don't get a bit of kip, obvs.
How does Show react to your insomnia? Can he sleep through your working? Mr Ohso doesn't/can't.

Show is a man who can sleep on a washing line in a gale. With the London Community Gospel Choir going for broke in the background.

Poor old Mr.OhSo. I know how he feels - I don't sleep a lot at the best of times, but when I'm like this the slightest thing disturbs me.

Show's an owl and I'm a lark - he has to creep about quietly and turn the telly/music down if I'm in bed, but I can crash about like Nelly the Elephant and he snores through it all.

Not fair, really, is it?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 15 Oct, 2015 12:55 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Robert Hutton ‏@RobDotHutton 18m18 minutes ago
Just found @mdawheatcroft's little book summarising UK govt finances. Looks really useful. http://amzn.to/1MrKKRD" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes it does.

The past few weeks, ahead of a ‘supplementary’ Budget, have been remarkably exciting

Interestingly, most of this debate is not about the Government’s financial budget for the current year, the main subject of a Budget announcement. Rather it is focused on the Chancellor’s four-year plan to cut expenditure until there is a surplus in cash terms and about how we can improve the tax and welfare system to make it more effective.

This shifting of the debate is welcome.

Perhaps even more welcome is the realisation that our public finances need to be managed much better than they have been in the past. Not only does our Government owe £1.5 trillion in debt, but it has £1.3 trillion in unfunded public sector pension obligations on its whole-of-government accounting balance sheet that will need to be paid for by increased taxes or through further cuts in welfare or public services. And that is even before considering how we find the money to pay for the costs of an increasingly long-lived population, with the future cost of the state pension alone estimated to be more than £4 trillion in a recent report by the Centre for Policy Studies.

Hence what would be most welcome in this Budget would be an announcement of a comprehensive financial review, as called for by the ICAEW*. Considering income, expenditure, cash flow and the balance sheet over the long-term, it would lead to the development of a coherent long-term financial strategy setting out how we can achieve sustainable public finances over the next quarter of a century and beyond.

It is time for a coherent long-term strategy. A plan that not only sets out how we can fund our nation in the future, but that also establishes a path to replacing a failed system of tax and welfare.

Martin Wheatcroft is managing director of Pendan

http://pendan.uk/

*The Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales (ICAEW)

Edited to make clear I think the above is frightening.
The text distances Tory government from the debt racked up under their bad leadership.
The text makes social security provision successfully managed for decades in the UK the reason for current debt.
'Long-term strategy', a close relative of 'longtermeconomicplan'