Tuesday 27th October 2015

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 4:58 am

Good morning.

Constitutional crisis? So much for the smart political operator and the remarkable fellow with his Oxford First in PPE. Never have a pair of chaps grasped power with little more than scaremongering and empty lies. So yes, we have a constitutional crisis on our hands, one where our acting Prime Minister and Chancellor of the Exchequer should face a vote of no confidence and be ousted from office.

I'm not sure what exactly this says about our country or should I lay blame on a perverse press and main stream media? Quite how Dave and George can represent us in a world of instant communication is beyond me. Forget their oft repeated lies and explanations of what exactly reality is. Can we not trust our own judgement and perception rather than the words of two such reprobates? 'And you need not be confined to these shores to have it spelled out quite what reprobates they are. Do I really need say any more?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 6:59 am

Morning all.

JRM put in his place by Baroness Hollis last night was entertaining, ditto Tim Montgomerie admitting that the Tories didn't expect to have the outright win at the GE that'd require pledges to be met.

John McDonnell was on fine form too with Adam Boulton " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; so all in all, a slightly better day.

Which phrase will be more prevalent on Today, constitutional crisis or humiliating defeat? Hmm....

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 7:10 am

Morning
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -allowance" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Charities urge ministers to drop planned cuts to work support allowance
George Osborne plans to cut £30 a week from ESA, paid to claimants forced to give up work through illness or serious accident

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 7:58 am

Morning.

Zoe Catchpole ‏@mazoe 56m56 minutes ago
"I tried to ask Mr Gove about this, he ran away". Read the fantastic @joncraig on tax credits http://bit.ly/1Wf3GIr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We still have two further debates on tax credit cuts to come this week.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:00 am

HindleA wrote:Morning
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -allowance" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Charities urge ministers to drop planned cuts to work support allowance
George Osborne plans to cut £30 a week from ESA, paid to claimants forced to give up work through illness or serious accident

It's a disgraceful move. How it can be countered ... just don't know. Osborne will be smarting from his defeat re tax credits for quite some time. Don't see him or IDS caving in re anything else for quite a while.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:01 am

Chris Bryant MP ‏@RhonddaBryant 9m9 minutes ago
Pleased the Lords have reminded Cameron of 2 principles: make work pay; and don't lie about your plans in the election.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:04 am

Owen Smith ‏@OwenSmith_MP 13m13 minutes ago
Shameless spinning by Tories morning, trying to turn a row about their pernicious Tax Credit cuts into a phoney row about the constitution.

and this from Tim Montgomerie

Tim Montgomerie ن ‏@montie 13m13 minutes ago
Today's opinion poll: Which word best describes the House of Lords vote on tax credits?

Unconstitutional

Compassionate

You can actually vote on that if you're on Twitter.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:15 am

LBC ‏@LBC 14m14 minutes ago
A tough listen for George Osborne: @iaindale’s callers lay into him on the tax credits cuts http://l-bc.co/Qez7TK" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jeeeeez. Listening to Chris Grayling on Radio 4 still carping on about looking at the package in the round re free childcare etc etc. He should listen to the first phone call here from a single mother who doesn't qualify for the free childcare because she earns just over a certain amount. She stands to lose big time.

How can they still be trying to defend and lie about these cuts?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:19 am

Jack Blanchard ‏@Jack_Blanchard_ 8m8 minutes ago
Are the Tories really putting Chris Grayling in charge of their review of the House of Lords? How long before Gove restores all its powers?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:24 am

Morning.

It was a treat nodding off to Radio 4's The World Tonight on my mini headphones last night.
Rees-Mogg sounded like he'd just found his wine cellar vino had turned to vinegar.

Labour members and supporters needed last night as much as the people who will lose out under Osbo's plans.

It'll be interesting to see what the GDP figures are today.
If they are, as expected, still sluggish or a drop, maybe we'll hear more of a push on the effects to the wider economy of taking cash from people who need it to spend to survive.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:26 am

Looks as if Lloyd-Webber can claim back his air fare.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:28 am

This is good from Toynbee.

Even the House of Lords couldn’t stomach Osborne’s tax credit cuts
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... ch-osborne" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:29 am

Jonathan Reynolds MP ‏@jreynoldsMP 9m9 minutes ago
Hugely ironic to hear Grayling, who last week unilaterally created an English Parliament, criticise Lords for a 'big constitutional step'

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:42 am

LabourLordsUKVerified account ‏@LabourLordsUK 1h1 hour ago
Bizarre that any media would want Farron view on #taxcredits SI given how his vanity motion gave Govt lifeline & risked what we achieved

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:47 am

Morning all. I do so hope this is true;

: ScreenShot00892.jpg (21.97 KiB) Viewed 8633 times

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 8:50 am

Two tweets..one this morning

and so you go and look at Carl Gardner's Twitter account and see from last night...

bet that doesn't get retweeted by any Tory...

Morning all. Dear me, the number of Tories whining about the HoL being "unelected" and "nobodies" last night - how many bits of awful legislation did they vote through for you last time and before yet one defeat and ...."Waaaahhhhh!...toys out of the pram time.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 9:04 am

Good article by Ian Dunt on politics.co.uk.

There's a lot of nonsense being spoken about the supposed democratic disgrace of the unelected House of Lords voting against the elected Commons this afternoon. As it happens, they are only able to do so because the government has tried to escape scrutiny of the move to cut tax credits. The Tories are the authors of their own demise.

This happened in two ways. Firstly, they did not tell voters they wanted to cut tax credits before the election. In actual fact David Cameron came close to promising he wouldn't. It was not quite Nick-Clegg-standing-next-to-a-pledge level of hypocrisy, but it was pretty close. During the Question Time leaders' debate, he was asked about tax credits and child tax credits and said he wouldn't cut them. The extent to which he was talking about tax credits, rather than child tax credits, is unclear, but no fair-minded viewer would have emerged from the exchange with the impression he intended to cut either.

The Tories refused to go into any detail of their planned benefit cuts before the election - and for good reason. As they have seen, cutting tax credits for the lowest paid workers in the country is very unpopular. But had they put the cut to tax credits in their manifesto, there would have been nothing the Lords could have done to stop them. The Salisbury Convention prevents the Lords opposing the second or third reading of a bill which appeared in the governing party's manifesto. If the Tories had been honest with the public at the election, the Lords could not have rebelled against them.

They could also have prevented a Lords rebellion if they had put the tax credit cut in a bill. The Lords cannot vote against financial legislation. But the Tories didn't. They tried to sneak it in with a statutory instrument.

Statutory instruments mean you can quickly get a change to the law through parliament without the usual standards of debate and scrutiny. They are there to facilitate small changes in law which do not require much debate. But they have grown into a democratic menace, with governments regularly using them to sneak in substantial legal changes without submitting them to the will of parliament. But here's the good thing about statutory instruments: the Lords can vote against them. It's complex and nuanced and there's a lot of discussion around precedent (which you can read up on here) but it is doable.

If the government had been decent enough to put these cuts through as a bill, they wouldn't be in this mess. And they would also have the ability to introduce amendments addressing the concerns of their critics on the government and opposition benches. But they didn't. They tried to sneak it in. And now it has come back to bite them.

This error has sparked all sorts of nonsense from Downing Street. Government sources have said they're going to 'suspend' the Lords, which they do not have the power to do. They are either whipping up lies or their constitutional understanding is so precarious they must be considered functionally incapable of doing their job. They've also threatened to stuff the Lords with Tories to undo their lack of a majority. That would be welcome, because it would show once and for all how undemocratic they have become and how urgently in need of repair Britain's constitutional arrangements are.

It would be far preferable, however, if they learnt a different lesson: that they should be straight with the public and straight with parliament. Had they done so, they would not be in their current predicament.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 9:04 am

DBC survey

https://disabilitybenefitsconsortium.wo ... ork-later/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 9:16 am

FTSE 100 is down, not much of a sign of confidence in this morning's GDP announcement

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 9:28 am

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... king-rules" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ministers have been accused of trying to sneak through new rules allowing shale drilling under national parks without a proper parliamentary debate, in a move condemned by Labour and anti-fracking campaigners.

Cameron is really running scared of full parliamentary debate and his small majority, isn't here? How long can they keep this up, sneaking through unpopular measures without proper scrutiny and generally ignoring public opinion? It seems to me that despite Cameron's claims of a decisive mandate, what Tory voters think they voted for and what Cameron wants to deliver are so far apart from each other he is desperate to keep policies secret from everyone, including his own MPs.

This government is not going to end well. They are forgetting more and more that they have to take the country with them. Tory voters are just like everyone else, with diverse views and red lines about what they won't support. Fracking in national parks could well be one of them.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 9:31 am

Slowed to 0.5%

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 9:34 am

UK growth slows to 0.5%

Breaking! The UK economy grew by just 0.5% in the third quarter of 2015, down from 0.7% three months earlier.

The Office for National Statistics is releasing full details right now.....

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 9:35 am

Services increased by 0.7%,
Production increased by 0.3%,
Agriculture increased by 0.5%.
Construction output decreased by 2.2%.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 9:35 am

Osborne's economic miracle, and that's before taking billions away from working people.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 9:36 am

A day to bury bad news under more bad news ?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 9:38 am

George OsborneVerified account ‏@George_Osborne 3m3 minutes ago
GDP is 0.5%. UK continues to outperform other major economies. But global risks mean we go on with tough decisions to live within our means

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 9:41 am

This is the chart which tells you all you need to know about "rebalancing the economy"...

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 9:44 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 04326.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Lords backed a Labour amendment deleting a clause in the Energy Bill that would have ended the renewables obligation in March 2016, a year earlier than planned.....Following the defeat, a Department for Energy and Climate Change spokesman said: “The Government is disappointed that a measure to deliver on our manifesto commitment to end new subsidies for on-shore wind has been removed from the Energy Bill.

Grayling on R4 this morning used the above as an example of the Lords over-reaching themselves. Like everything else this government is asserting at the moment it appears to be somewhat dishonest, if the article is accurate. A manifesto commitment not to introduce new onshore wind subsidies is surely not the same thing as ending current subsides early. At the moment the government appears to be taking a line that the Lords is inactive, merely rubber stamping everything the Commons passes but this has never been the case. It is a second chamber and has always curbed government excess. If Cameron gets his way, making the Lords merely ceremonial and altering legislation substantially behind closed doors in committee with no Commons debate or vote, we will have little of a functioning democracy left.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 9:50 am

Meanwhile, the Labour Party launch another attempt at self-destruction:

SCOTTISH Labour leader Kezia Dugdale and UK party leader Jeremy Corbyn have signed a “statement of intent” which will make the party north of the Border autonomous – handing over control of all membership, administration and selection procedures and allow for separate policies.

It means that at the next general election in 2020 the Scottish and UK parties could have conflicting policies on major issues, including defence and taxation.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/plans-s ... z3pl5JAnpO

Fair enough for the Scottish branch to have control of admin, membership and policy on devolved matters - but defence, taxation and any other UK wide policies?

Does this mean the party can/will vote against itself in Westminster. Could a future Labour PM (from either side of the border) be credible, leading a formally split party?
If I generally agree with Labour in England and wales, but not Scotland, who do I vote for?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 9:52 am

Eric_WLothian wrote:Meanwhile, the Labour Party launch another attempt at self-destruction:

SCOTTISH Labour leader Kezia Dugdale and UK party leader Jeremy Corbyn have signed a “statement of intent” which will make the party north of the Border autonomous – handing over control of all membership, administration and selection procedures and allow for separate policies.

It means that at the next general election in 2020 the Scottish and UK parties could have conflicting policies on major issues, including defence and taxation.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/plans-s ... z3pl5JAnpO

Fair enough for the Scottish branch to have control of admin, membership and policy on devolved matters - but defence, taxation and any other UK wide policies?

Does this mean the party can/will vote against itself in Westminster. Could a future Labour PM (from either side of the border) be credible, leading a formally split party?
If I generally agree with Labour in England and wales, but not Scotland, who do I vote for?

Agree with you Eric. This needs to be properly finessed re separation of devolved policy areas from those that are still UK wide.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 10:03 am

Chris Ship ‏@chrisshipitv 7m7 minutes ago
Some worrying stats in the #gdp figures. Overall growth in Q3 of 0.5% (down from 0.7% in Q2) but construction industry shrank by 2.2%

I wonder if the BBC will make the same observation in their reporting - or even the tweets of journalists?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 10:10 am

The backward march of the makers,gathering pace.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 10:18 am

Independent VoicesVerified account
‏@IndyVoices
David Cameron faces much larger obstacles than the Lords to control the UK | @steverichards14 http://ind.pn/1NxGtiC" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good article. Interesting comparisons with former governments - points to devolution and changed power structures. Kind of heartening even though the basic of having a Conservative government for a fixed term is the main thing we have to contend with and their trump card.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 10:21 am

To be fair, the OBR did say that growth would be slowing slightly - they forecast 0.6% for last qtr and this so it balances out.

Next two quarters are forecast to be 0.5% too and only picks up to 0.7% again in Q2 next year.

OK, off to the library.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 10:22 am

From today's Waugh Zone email:

MOANING ABOUT ROAMING

Speaking of Europe, the Daily Telegraph reports Ukip MEPs are preparing to help vote down plans in Brussels that would end roaming charges for mobile phones across the EU. That might seem counterintuitive, but as the newspaper notes, the scrapping of charges would enable David Cameron to show how Britain can have real influence in Europe. Ukip MEP Roger Helmer says the move would increase the power of the European Commision so should be opposed on principle.

Shouting inside.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 10:33 am

Chris Bryant MP ‏@RhonddaBryant 8m8 minutes ago
Chris Bryant MP Retweeted James Kirkup
That'll be their third.

James KirkupVerified account
‏@jameskirkup
Govt faces 2nd Lords defeat - EU referendum bill in HoL tomorrow. Govt source: peers will back votes for 16 yr-olds http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -live.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 10:37 am

Stephen Doughty ‏@SDoughtyMP 15m15 minutes ago
Minister confirms in #TUBill committee UK gov believes limits on powers of Welsh, Scottish Govs on health + education #rollingbackdevolution

Stephen Doughty ‏@SDoughtyMP 14m14 minutes ago
Admits UK gov ministers can interfere in contracts + facility time - refuses to answer when I say "will you take them to Supreme Court?"

Stephen Doughty ‏@SDoughtyMP 8m8 minutes ago
Am sure @LeightonAndrews will be concerned by further confirmation this morn that UK gov could interfere in devolved public services #TUBill

Hold the press - clearly this is a constitutional crisis. Well - it's far more of one than the Lords doing the right thing yesterday. I can only hope that if the govt really is intending to interfere in the running of services in devolved areas that the Welsh govt takes them to judicial review. And I hope that the outcome is the same as when the coalition thought they could interfere with / abolish the Agricultural Wages Board in Wales to suit their own purposes. They were defeated. Bring it on.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 10:52 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Independent VoicesVerified account
‏@IndyVoices
David Cameron faces much larger obstacles than the Lords to control the UK | @steverichards14 http://ind.pn/1NxGtiC" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good article. Interesting comparisons with former governments - points to devolution and changed power structures. Kind of heartening even though the basic of having a Conservative government for a fixed term is the main thing we have to contend with and their trump card.

Also a measure pushed through with great haste and very little discussion, as I recall. I don't think their timetable for change has been what the expected though, they've failed to deliver quite a lot, and it's all rather messy. All those Rowson fur cups lurking on the horizon, behind Westminster doors, squatting on microphones and in peoples smartphones and minds.

I'm conflicted by the Scottish Labout thing. On the one hand it seems like suicide, but on the other what's to lose if the alternative is to fossilise in place and not be able to undo any of this mess for fear of upsetting tendenvies that go completely against the grain. Bscore the election, well before returning it, we were discussing Labour as a movement. Now there's an opportunity for that. Any today's uk isn't the. Same as it once was. In the meantime the lower limbs of Ministers are taking a pasting, will they have legs to stand on by 2020? Or well they keel over before that? They aren't too bright, but I'll give them this they do a fine line dishonest manipulative behaviour. If we were another country we'd probably be under attack by now, which is not to say we aren't already, just most don't seem to understand, but they're learning.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 10:58 am

From the G live blog:

According to James Kirkup at the Telegraph, ministers are now resigned to another defeat in the Lords this week. They expect Labour and the Lib Dems to win tomorrow when they try to amend the EU referendum bill to allow 16 and 17-year-olds to vote.

This is far better popcorn eating time than when the coalition was in power. That was awfully dispiriting because the outcome was always inevitable. Pathetic little bit of protest sighs from the Lib Dem 'grass roots' (such as they were) and then all the Lib Dems on the payroll dutifully parroting the Tory line (far more than necessary) and marching through the lobby with them.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 11:03 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:From the G live blog:

According to James Kirkup at the Telegraph, ministers are now resigned to another defeat in the Lords this week. They expect Labour and the Lib Dems to win tomorrow when they try to amend the EU referendum bill to allow 16 and 17-year-olds to vote.
This is far better popcorn eating time than when the coalition was in power. That was awfully dispiriting because the outcome was always inevitable. Pathetic little bit of protest sighs from the Lib Dem 'grass roots' (such as they were) and then all the Lib Dems on the payroll dutifully parroting the Tory line (far more than necessary) and marching through the lobby with them.

The cannibalisation of their erstwhile lapdogs is not turning out well for the Tories.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 11:03 am

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

JRM put in his place by Baroness Hollis last night was entertaining, ditto Tim Montgomerie admitting that the Tories didn't expect to have the outright win at the GE that'd require pledges to be met.

John McDonnell was on fine form too with Adam Boulton " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; so all in all, a slightly better day.

Which phrase will be more prevalent on Today, constitutional crisis or humiliating defeat? Hmm....

The two aren't totally mutually exclusive tbf - a genuine constitutional crisis is usually evidence of serious misgovernment somewhere.

Yesterday was exciting, wasn't it? Of all the times to be away from my computer for much of the day

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 11:50 am

Emily Ashton ‏@elashton 2m2 minutes ago
Chris Leslie waves Tory manifesto, asks where tax credit cuts are set out. Osborne: "It says we're going to make £12bn of welfare savings."

This manifesto (and the one before which didn't include wholesale reorganisation of the NHS) should be like Liam Byrne's 'note' - brought back and waved at the Tories at every opportunity. Especially before the next election.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 11:51 am

Rob Merrick ‏@Rob_Merrick 5m5 minutes ago
"Country in decline, budget out of control, jobs lost" - the consequences of not cutting tax credits, according to the Chancellor

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 12:04 pm

Emily Ashton ‏@elashton 30s30 seconds ago
Osborne did NOT appreciate @StewartHosieSNP telling him his "chance of being prime minister has just gone up in a puff of smoke"

Good. Hit him where it hurts - and that's clearly not on blighting the prospects of low earners

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 12:07 pm

Ian Dunt ‏@IanDunt 15m15 minutes ago
Say what you like about him, but John McDonnell is striking exactly the right note here.

Tony Grew ‏@ayestotheright 12m12 minutes ago
.@johnmcdonnellMP playing this quite well, reasonable not ranting, says there are ways to make cuts without cutting #taxcredits

Nicholas Watt ‏@nicholaswatt 11m11 minutes ago London, England
Looks like @johnmcdonnellMP identified how @George_Osborne will dig out of hole: go for less excessive surplus target, currently £10bn 1/2

Nicholas Watt ‏@nicholaswatt 9m9 minutes ago London, England
. George_Osborne wrongly says @johnmcdonnellMP wants him to abandon surplus. So GO use wriggle room Rupert Harrison sorted in target 2/2

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 12:20 pm

PARLY ‏@ParlyApp 3m3 minutes ago
Tory MPs heckling @SeemaMalhotra1 then went quiet when it turned out she was quoting Osborne

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 12:25 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Emily Ashton ‏@elashton 2m2 minutes ago
Chris Leslie waves Tory manifesto, asks where tax credit cuts are set out. Osborne: "It says we're going to make £12bn of welfare savings."
This manifesto (and the one before which didn't include wholesale reorganisation of the NHS) should be like Liam Byrne's 'note' - brought back and waved at the Tories at every opportunity. Especially before the next election.

Chris Leslie doing something useful - these are indeed strange times

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 12:37 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PARLY ‏@ParlyApp 3m3 minutes ago
Tory MPs heckling @SeemaMalhotra1 then went quiet when it turned out she was quoting Osborne

Ha! That would make a great comedy sketch.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 12:37 pm

Good morfternoon.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 27 Oct, 2015 12:43 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:LibDem of my acquaintance moaning about Labour playing games and not backing LibDem killer motion. I give up.

Sophistry like that helps explain how the LibDems are doing no better now in the polls than under Clegg.

I thought Farron should have been his successor, but it has to be said he has been distinctly underwhelming thus far.

And what happened to the flood of refugees joining them from the Corbyn Terror, as he and Vince promised??