Friday 30th October 2015

Post by **refitman** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 7:09 am

Morning all.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 8:18 am

mornin

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 8:20 am

: ScreenShot00902.jpg (38.01 KiB) Viewed 10664 times

: ScreenShot00903.jpg (13.82 KiB) Viewed 10664 times

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 8:23 am

When he realises what a cesspit the Tories have turned this country into he will be wondering if he might have asked to just save the flight and wandered over to Havana instead,

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 8:58 am

My first thought was to be glad for him, the second, omg he is in for some culture shock. If he's coming in through Heathrow, especially. The difference between what was permissible then and now is huge.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 9:12 am

Glad to see Cameron's highlighting of this injustice in the Commons has borne fruit. /sarcasm

Morning all, coffee needed on this wet autumn day.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 9:54 am

Morning all.

Warwick Mansell has written a detailed response to the press release by the New Schools Network claiming that primary results were out of line with Ofsted inspection grades. IMO partly as an Ofsted-bashing exercise and partly to try and push for more primary academization.

Analysing another questionable press release

http://www.naht.org.uk/welcome/news-and ... s-release/

What intrigued me at the time was where this was coming from and being the data expert he is Warwick doesn't really address this unless he plans to stick that in his next Guardian diary.

But...it dawned on me last night that the first CEO of the NSN, Rachel Wolf, got herself a new job after managing to extricate herself from the wreckage of the Murdoch failed edu venture in the US...she's now policy adviser inside No 10...

The director of the NSN, Nick Timothy was Theresa May's SpAd but fell out with the party over their insistence that he go and campaign in the Rochester by-election and he refused. Bang went his chances of a safe seat.

So, was this job at the NSN a consolation prize?

Where he is now, officially outside government he can do "research" and be able to be more critical - including a bit of Ofsted-bashing - than the DfE would get away with.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 9:57 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34674276" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Prospects for young people in the UK have worsened over the past five years, according to the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
Its report found those under the age of 34 were hit by the steepest fall in income and employment.

Sorry for the gloomy start to the day but I felt this report needed sharing. It's certainly always felt like austerity was mainly aimed at young people, and this confirms the affect of withdrawing, rather than increasing, support to young people during an economic downturn. It's all depressingly inevitable.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 10:00 am

Hello all,
Have not contributed much recently, but just want to flag that even when I'm not in contributing mode, I am always reading and enjoying yours.

If "enjoying" is the right word given the subject matter.

I did laugh out loud at RR2s description of PF along the lines of her manifesting: quick wit and endless pedantry.
(I may have paraphrased)

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 10:12 am

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... ourne-view" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The only remaining NHS hospital in England for people with learning difficulties is to be shut under a £45m plan to drive through modernisation of services following the Winterbourne View scandal.

Calderstones hospital near Clitheroe, Lancashire, will close along with up to half the 2,600 hospital beds in the NHS and private sectors that are being used for learning disabled people. The beds will be replaced by supported housing schemes.

Hobiejoe drew attention to this story last night. If this was a genuine attempt to improve lives, it seems to me the new supported housing schemes would be put in place first, with hospital bed closures coming naturally as demand decreases. There's a lot of detail about the planned bed closures, but zero detail about the replacement accommodation, which seems more hopeful than actual and once again dumped on resource challenged local councils which now have to replicate the expertise to deliver complex solutions for vulnerable people in each council which seems inefficient to me compared to co-ordinating the service through a national body.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 10:36 am

Good morfternoon.

Junior doctors have expressed their anger at the health secretary, Jeremy Hunt, for claiming they are paid “danger money” when they work more than the legal limits.(Guardian)

Well, I apologise for using the term "danger money" (albeit in quotes) yesterday with regard to junior doctors' pay. I rather foolishly assumed that it really was a phrase in common coinage. We really are in "If Jeremy Hunt said it was raining, I'd look out of the window to check " territory.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... nger-money

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 10:41 am

@tinyclanger2

Good to see you! I thought, yesterday, that you'd not been around for a while and I was going to set up a search party today. Hope all's well, you skiver.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 10:46 am

PorFavor wrote:@tinyclanger2

Good to see you! I thought, yesterday, that you'd not been around for a while and I was going to set up a search party today. Hope all's well, you skiver.

Have been bear-watching on Mars. V poor signal strength on the Red Planet I'm afraid.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/6 ... rs?ref=yfp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 10:55 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:Hello all,
Have not contributed much recently, but just want to flag that even when I'm not in contributing mode, I am always reading and enjoying yours.

If "enjoying" is the right word given the subject matter.

I did laugh out loud at RR2s description of PF along the lines of her manifesting: quick wit and endless pedantry.
(I may have paraphrased)

Hi there. Always nice to know that people lurk as well

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 11:06 am

Willow904 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... ourne-view
The only remaining NHS hospital in England for people with learning difficulties is to be shut under a £45m plan to drive through modernisation of services following the Winterbourne View scandal.

Calderstones hospital near Clitheroe, Lancashire, will close along with up to half the 2,600 hospital beds in the NHS and private sectors that are being used for learning disabled people. The beds will be replaced by supported housing schemes.
Hobiejoe drew attention to this story last night. If this was a genuine attempt to improve lives, it seems to me the new supported housing schemes would be put in place first, with hospital bed closures coming naturally as demand decreases. There's a lot of detail about the planned bed closures, but zero detail about the replacement accommodation, which seems more hopeful than actual and once again dumped on resource challenged local councils which now have to replicate the expertise to deliver complex solutions for vulnerable people in each council which seems inefficient to me compared to co-ordinating the service through a national body.

But, at the same time, we have Debbie Abrahams' article (someone shared it here in the past couple of days) showing that 'specified housing' provided by councils and housing associations - which includes domestic abuse refuges and supported-housing schemes amongst others - is at risk due to not getting an exemption from the planned reduction in social rents:

One organisation’s modelling showed it would have to close over 100 schemes over the next four years, resulting in almost 2,000 client spaces being lost. This includes the loss of 228 client spaces for victims of domestic violence and 221 client spaces for older people.

Another has already cut 87 supported units from its development programme. Other examples, included one association forseeing that it was likely to lose 400 extra care units over the next four years and another stated that a planned scheme for people with complex needs on the autistic spectrum would now require significant extra funds in order for it to go ahead.

(my bold)
http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... -force-wom
So, this Government's policy seems to be to kick out one crutch and break the other...

Oh, g'day all

WelshIan · Post by **WelshIan** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 11:19 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Warwick Mansell has written a detailed response to the press release by the New Schools Network claiming that primary results were out of line with Ofsted inspection grades. IMO partly as an Ofsted-bashing exercise and partly to try and push for more primary academization.

Analysing another questionable press release

http://www.naht.org.uk/welcome/news-and ... s-release/

What intrigued me at the time was where this was coming from and being the data expert he is Warwick doesn't really address this unless he plans to stick that in his next Guardian diary.

Another reason for a school to get a high Ofsted grade but poor results is if a school has a high proportion of pupils with special educational needs. They may be making excellent progress with those pupils, but they won't be achieving level 4. If NSN were really looking at whether results/Ofsted inspections match up then this has to be one of the things taken into consideration.

Morning All! (I'll go back to lurking now

)

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 12:02 pm

HoC are debating Julie Cooper MP's Hospital Parking Bill, now:

The bill would place a duty on health authorities to exempt carers who are in receipt of, or have an underlying entitlement for, Carer's Allowance and those who have been certified by a clinician as providing, or intending to provide, substantial care on a regular basis.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34674272
It's on BBC Parliament and on the parliament.uk website under 'watch.'

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 12:04 pm

Oh dear...

Kent school that bought every pupil an iPad cautioned for “unacceptably low” standards

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/kent-school-th ... standards/

A school in Kent that spent £125,000 on iPads for all its pupils has been issued with a ‘pre-warning notice’ to improve by the Department for Education (DfE).

Spires Academy has been told standards at the school are “unacceptably low” in a letter sent by Dominic Herrington, the Regional Schools Commissioner for South East and South London, on September 25 and released publicly today.

It raised concerns with the school’s attainment, which in 2013 and 2014 was 31 per cent and 35 per cent for pupils achieving five GCSEs at A* to C— below the minimum floor standard of 40 per cent. Attainment has now fallen to 17 per cent for pupils in 2015.

Wow, that's awful.

This has been an academy since 2007...so the academy will now be taken over by another one within days right?

If the standards are not deemed to have been met by the DfE then a ‘warning notice’ will be issued and additional governors may be appointed to the academy trust.

Oh. Probably not then.

Odd that - the threats about 'coasting' LA schools and what actually happens to academies seem to be quite different. Fancy...

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 12:18 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:@tinyclanger2

Good to see you! I thought, yesterday, that you'd not been around for a while and I was going to set up a search party today. Hope all's well, you skiver.
Have been bear-watching on Mars. V poor signal strength on the Red Planet I'm afraid.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/6 ... rs?ref=yfp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Those Martian bears are hardy creatures. They sometimes have to wait years until the Martian salmon run - surviving on a meagre diet of Martleberries and redplanetcurrants, unless they've managed to cache stores of honey-comb following life-or-death battles with battalions of giant Martian killer-bees that make their nests in the ears of the statue of the Buddha's face.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 12:31 pm

Rebalancing of the economy going well then?

The deficit on the current account balance widened in 2014 to £92.9 billion. This deficit equated to 5.1% of gross domestic product (GDP) in current market prices. In both terms, this was the largest annual deficit since records began in 1948.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/bop/unite ... index.html

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 12:34 pm

Alison McGovern MP is the new chair of Progress - this might be a hopeful sign?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 12:36 pm

Deleted as it took me so long to rely to a post,it didn't make sense.Faff,faffier,faffiest.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 12:50 pm

@RogerOThornhill: It sounds a sorry state of affairs at that school. What has happened there between 2014 (when they managed to increase the 5 GCSEs rate from 31% to 35%) and now – when that rate has halved in only one year? The iPads bit might or might not be relevant as whatever tools you're using still depend on the quality of teaching and are not magic wands. And the pretty bad attendance levels suggest something else going on, too.

Mind you, 'one rule for them, another for the others' seems to have struck yet again. The response from Spires Academy to the pre-warning letter should be with the Regional Commissioner by now (15 working days from 25th September) and I wonder how long it'll be before we hear the RC's response - and the 'improvement plan,' itself.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 12:57 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Rebalancing of the economy going well then?

The deficit on the current account balance widened in 2014 to £92.9 billion. This deficit equated to 5.1% of gross domestic product (GDP) in current market prices. In both terms, this was the largest annual deficit since records began in 1948.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/bop/unite ... index.html

I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked! How could this happen under our oh so brilliant Chancellor & PM, what with their longtermeconomicplan and all the other words and phrases with which they regale us!?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 1:05 pm

I've just been having a look at Corporation Tax rates and receipts.

Back in 2010, the forecast receipts for 2014/15 was £56.9bn

The forecast receipts for 2014/15 based on the last budget so may not be quite the final figure is....£42.4bn.

There you go - we're short of £14bn a year...the FT said back in 2010 that reducing CT rates when corporations were awash with cash didn't make any sense and they were right.

Edit - interesting to see that for all of the rhetoric of being in favour of small businesses being the driver of the economy, the rate and the thresholds haven't moved since before 2010...all Osborne has done is move the main rate towards the small company rate. Willy waving of the worst kind.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 1:18 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:I've just been having a look at Corporation Tax rates and receipts.

Back in 2010, the forecast receipts for 2014/15 was £56.9bn

The forecast receipts for 2014/15 based on the last budget so may not be quite the final figure is....£42.4bn.

There you go - we're short of £14bn a year...the FT said back in 2010 that reducing CT rates when corporations were awash with cash didn't make any sense and they were right.

Edit - interesting to see that for all of the rhetoric of being in favour of small businesses being the driver of the economy, the rate and the thresholds haven't moved since before 2010...all Osborne has done is move the main rate towards the small company rate. Willy waving of the worst kind.

It's probably George Osborne's idea of levelling the playing field.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 1:22 pm

Tory lead cut to five points in the latest ComedyResults survey in the Mail.

For comparison, their previous poll for the Sindie put the blues a frankly implausible 13 points ahead.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 1:38 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/#gallery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not a good paper to read these days, but their cartoons are still good....

As for this one? Would love it to be true, but these days being worthy of a high position doesn't mean doodley.

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 1:40 pm

Sun online drops paywall

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/30 ... s_paywall/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

World shrugs shoulders

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 1:44 pm

GetYou wrote:Sun online drops paywall

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/30 ... s_paywall/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

World shrugs shoulders

Will anybody notice?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 1:49 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
GetYou wrote:Sun online drops paywall

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/30 ... s_paywall/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

World shrugs shoulders
Will anybody notice?

Football fans?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 1:53 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:I've just been having a look at Corporation Tax rates and receipts.

Back in 2010, the forecast receipts for 2014/15 was £56.9bn

The forecast receipts for 2014/15 based on the last budget so may not be quite the final figure is....£42.4bn.

There you go - we're short of £14bn a year...the FT said back in 2010 that reducing CT rates when corporations were awash with cash didn't make any sense and they were right.

Edit - interesting to see that for all of the rhetoric of being in favour of small businesses being the driver of the economy, the rate and the thresholds haven't moved since before 2010...all Osborne has done is move the main rate towards the small company rate. Willy waving of the worst kind.

Again, Osborne needs hammering over his failures to throttle this Trust Conservatives With The Economy narrative.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 2:05 pm

Ben Powell ‏@PenBowell 9 mins9 minutes ago

So strongly do Tories believe in charging carers up to £130 per week to park at hospital, they're talking for hours, Ben Powell added,

Liz McInnes @LizMcInnesMP

This is Parliament at its worst. @DavidNuttallMP has now taken over filibustering on @JulieForBurnley's carer's parking Bill. Dreadful stuff

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 2:15 pm

Nuttall has history,with particular regard to carers,he was part of a double act with Rees-Mogg in attempts to exempt from the non spare room non subsidy.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 2:25 pm

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1322056 ... chancellor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour Press
Decision from the ONS is a blow to the Chancellor - Healey

John Healey MP Labour’s Shadow Cabinet Minister for Housing and Planning, responding to the decision announced today that the ONS is reclassifying housing associations as public corporations, said:

“This decision from the ONS is a blow to the Chancellor and completely undermines the basis for so-called ‘voluntary' right-to-buy deal the Government struck with housing associations and the Prime Minister announced this month at the Conservative conference.

"That deal was done with the housing association sector on the basis that if they didn’t agree, they risked re-classification as public bodies which we all want to avoid. Today’s ONS decision calls into question the whole deal and the good faith of Ministers in reaching it.

"Ministers must have known this ONS decision was coming and so there are hard questions for Government ministers about when they knew and why they went ahead with the agreement.”

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 2:32 pm

"Debate to be resumed 'tomorrow'" I assume that means Monday?

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 2:45 pm

HindleA wrote:http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1322056 ... chancellor

Labour Press
Decision from the ONS is a blow to the Chancellor - Healey

John Healey MP Labour’s Shadow Cabinet Minister for Housing and Planning, responding to the decision announced today that the ONS is reclassifying housing associations as public corporations, said:

“This decision from the ONS is a blow to the Chancellor and completely undermines the basis for so-called ‘voluntary' right-to-buy deal the Government struck with housing associations and the Prime Minister announced this month at the Conservative conference.

"That deal was done with the housing association sector on the basis that if they didn’t agree, they risked re-classification as public bodies which we all want to avoid. Today’s ONS decision calls into question the whole deal and the good faith of Ministers in reaching it.

"Ministers must have known this ONS decision was coming and so there are hard questions for Government ministers about when they knew and why they went ahead with the agreement.”

Not good news in the slightest, either for the Housing Associations or for the country.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 2:58 pm

Look Left
‏@Look_Left_

As many people anticipated, UKIP voters appear to be switching back to Labour under Corbyn's leadership. Great news.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSkmPRxWcAE0k3h.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lab. 57.3% [+12.7]
Cons. 36.4% [-0.3]
UKIP. 6.3% [-12.4]

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 3:00 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1322056 ... chancellor

Labour Press
Decision from the ONS is a blow to the Chancellor - Healey

John Healey MP Labour’s Shadow Cabinet Minister for Housing and Planning, responding to the decision announced today that the ONS is reclassifying housing associations as public corporations, said:

“This decision from the ONS is a blow to the Chancellor and completely undermines the basis for so-called ‘voluntary' right-to-buy deal the Government struck with housing associations and the Prime Minister announced this month at the Conservative conference.

"That deal was done with the housing association sector on the basis that if they didn’t agree, they risked re-classification as public bodies which we all want to avoid. Today’s ONS decision calls into question the whole deal and the good faith of Ministers in reaching it.

"Ministers must have known this ONS decision was coming and so there are hard questions for Government ministers about when they knew and why they went ahead with the agreement.”
Not good news in the slightest, either for the Housing Associations or for the country.

And more outright lying...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 3:02 pm

LadyCentauria wrote:HoC are debating Julie Cooper MP's Hospital Parking Bill, now:
The bill would place a duty on health authorities to exempt carers who are in receipt of, or have an underlying entitlement for, Carer's Allowance and those who have been certified by a clinician as providing, or intending to provide, substantial care on a regular basis.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34674272
It's on BBC Parliament and on the parliament.uk website under 'watch.'

His finger ever on the pulse of the bottom line...

Mr Rees-Mogg (Tory MP for North East Somerset):

"I wonder whether the Bill’s proponents have considered the human rights implications of taking a revenue source away from a private company without compensation.
The Bill makes no provision for compensation."

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... nknown/12/

(my emphasis)

A human rights violation?

Good-afternoon, everyone.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 3:08 pm

Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
GetYou wrote:Sun online drops paywall

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/30 ... s_paywall/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

World shrugs shoulders
Will anybody notice?
Football fans?

Might be worth remembering at this point that when Murdoch put his titles behind a paywall, it was acclaimed by the usual media suspects as a "masterstroke" amidst claims that everybody would be following his lead within a few years. Not really how things turned out, is it?

In particular, the Times has undoubtedly suffered through its content not being readily accessible online - many have gravitated to the Graun/Indy sites by default as a response.

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 3:13 pm

It's the way of the web - you take away my free, I'll get my free somewhere else....

But yes, it was another in the long list of Murdoch masterstrokes.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 3:14 pm

citizenJA wrote:
LadyCentauria wrote:HoC are debating Julie Cooper MP's Hospital Parking Bill, now:
The bill would place a duty on health authorities to exempt carers who are in receipt of, or have an underlying entitlement for, Carer's Allowance and those who have been certified by a clinician as providing, or intending to provide, substantial care on a regular basis.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34674272
It's on BBC Parliament and on the parliament.uk website under 'watch.'
His finger ever on the pulse of the bottom line...
Mr Rees-Mogg (Tory MP for North East Somerset):

"I wonder whether the Bill’s proponents have considered the human rights implications of taking a revenue source away from a private company without compensation.
The Bill makes no provision for compensation."

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publi ... nknown/12/
(my emphasis)

A human rights violation?

Good-afternoon, everyone.

I thought taking away businesses like that was what Communists did?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 3:15 pm

Afternoon. No the ONS decision is definitely not good news. I hope there is now going to be kind of challenge to the stitched up 'voluntary' right to buy deal as it was consulted on on dodgy ground / false basis.

This move into the public sector could signal the end for housing associations
So, the ONS has decided that social housing providers are public bodies after all. Whatever happens next, the outlook for tenants looks perilous
http://www.theguardian.com/housing-netw ... lic-sector" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What are the implications of the ONS announcement? First, £60bn of privately-procured housing association debt will now be placed on the government’s balance sheet. Total government debt is around £1.5tn so this is not a major increase, but it does add to the deficit and the cost of borrowing. In an age of austerity, Osborne might be keen to get this debt off the public books as quickly as possible. There are two ways of doing this. Either he could sell the debt (and the £45bn of grant that goes with it) into the private sector. That would signal the end of the road for genuine social housing, because investors would have a very large foot in the door to allow them to access housing association assets, which are worth at least £400bn at open market values.

The alternative is for the government to lift the regulatory burden on housing associations altogether and allow them to act more like commercial property companies, buying and selling as they wish, setting rents as they wish and picking and choosing the tenants they take. If this happens, the ONS would be forced to re-classify them back into the private sector, although given that today’s decision has been backdated to 2008 this is unlikely be a speedy process.

In either scenario, the outlook for tenants of housing associations landlords in England looks perilous.

Social housing tenants should be another group that are going to be very pissed with the Tories ... given a bribe before the election which may well turn out to be very hollow indeed in the wake of both the 'deal' and now the 'decision' - and of course the 'pay to stay' measure which hasn't kicked in yet. They are likely going to all be shafted with much higher rents if stock is sold off by Osborne into the private sector ... and similarly if he removes all regulatory burdens .... rents will rise and terms and conditions won't become more secure, that's for sure.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 3:17 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Look Left
‏@Look_Left_

As many people anticipated, UKIP voters appear to be switching back to Labour under Corbyn's leadership. Great news.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSkmPRxWcAE0k3h.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lab. 57.3% [+12.7]
Cons. 36.4% [-0.3]
UKIP. 6.3% [-12.4]

Could someone let Kate Godfrey know that ... she seems to think, or claims to think, that Corbyn would drive the core Labour vote into the arms of Ukip.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 3:21 pm

My first flat was a Housing Association one,low rent,assistance with decoration and a cooker.It provided stability and independence and a springboard to a ~~debauched~~ contributory(hopefully) life Now,I would have to hunt for shared accommodation and queue up at a foodbank.Height of Thatcherism,it is not comparable.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 3:32 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Look Left
‏@Look_Left_

As many people anticipated, UKIP voters appear to be switching back to Labour under Corbyn's leadership. Great news.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CSkmPRxWcAE0k3h.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lab. 57.3% [+12.7]
Cons. 36.4% [-0.3]
UKIP. 6.3% [-12.4]
Could someone let Kate Godfrey know that ... she seems to think, or claims to think, that Corbyn would drive the core Labour vote into the arms of Ukip.

Sorry should have added. That was in Euxton North [Chorley]

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 3:39 pm

Emily Ashton ‏@elashton 13m13 minutes ago
Pressure building on Matt Hancock and Oliver Letwin after latest Kid's Company scoop by @aljwhite http://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/minis ... xaGkkedQ2o" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Eye watering.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 3:40 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:I've just been having a look at Corporation Tax rates and receipts.

Back in 2010, the forecast receipts for 2014/15 was £56.9bn

The forecast receipts for 2014/15 based on the last budget so may not be quite the final figure is....£42.4bn.

There you go - we're short of £14bn a year...the FT said back in 2010 that reducing CT rates when corporations were awash with cash didn't make any sense and they were right.

Edit - interesting to see that for all of the rhetoric of being in favour of small businesses being the driver of the economy, the rate and the thresholds haven't moved since before 2010...all Osborne has done is move the main rate towards the small company rate. Willy waving of the worst kind.

^^^^THIS!!!! ^^^^

Worthless Tory Chancellor! Look at what you've done!

High VAT & PAYE main contributors removes money from the economy while the wealthiest (corporation tax rate an insulting 'gratuity', lowest in the EU) are given a free ride over the country, paying tokens toward infrastructure they rely on but proportionately pay the least while all people living, working in this country can only contribute more labour, less pay, income support provision decimation removes money from people entitled to support, the economy shrinks further, resulting in greater numbers of ill, disabled, under-unemployed people without care, without homes, without proper jobs, without the necessities of life because Chancellor Osborne's insane economic structure and current Tory government ministers have intentionally set this clock operating to produce this result!

People, Tories are competently making a nation of slaves.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 30 Oct, 2015 3:45 pm

Nick Smith ‏@BlaenauGwentMP 33m33 minutes ago
Nick Smith Retweeted PwC UK
More bad news for UK steel

PwC UKVerified account
‏@PwC_UK
Following a detailed review of Caparo, it is with regret we now announce 452 redundancies with immediate effect

Iain Wright Retweeted
Lee Johnson ‏@leejtees 4h4 hours ago
Another blow for #steel on Teesside. #Caparo forgery in Hartlepool in liquidation. 92 redundant, inc Alan Clark...