Saturday 14th & Sunday 15th November 2015

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 10:12 am

Good morfternoon.

A stiff letter to the council won’t stave off David Cameron’s next crisis

William Keegan (Guardian)

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... eal-crisis

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 10:13 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

A stiff letter to the council won’t stave off David Cameron’s next crisis

William Keegan (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... eal-crisis

Morning PF. He - Keegan - is just so good.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 10:35 am

ephemerid wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote: He's had a go at making out Labour stopped it being defeated. Nice try- only 2 Tory rebels and one absentee. Not even the sudden appearance of Sinn Fein would have stopped it.
He's not getting away with his contorted arguments BTL though, is he. I just can't get my head around how someone such as he can put up all the right arguments against such a nasty and utterly flawed policy and then attempt to justify why the Tories want to do it and why many of them will vote for it. Some very good comments BTL.

McPartland has a majority of about 5,000. Estimates are that 5,000 people in his constituency will lose out if this is implemented.
Go figure......

McPartland's voting record shows consistent support for all the cuts and changes to social security enacted by the coalition - this change of heart is self-interest, IMHO.
I suspect that the same accusation could be levelled at quite a few of the Tory MPs who are objecting to this, on the grounds that they all voted for cuts before.

Not impressed, frankly.

Oh I am sure its self interest, but people who become "rebels" often start out that way. Some of them come to question things more widely.

Any Tory dissent over this should be encouraged.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 11:33 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
ephemerid wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: He's not getting away with his contorted arguments BTL though, is he. I just can't get my head around how someone such as he can put up all the right arguments against such a nasty and utterly flawed policy and then attempt to justify why the Tories want to do it and why many of them will vote for it. Some very good comments BTL.

McPartland has a majority of about 5,000. Estimates are that 5,000 people in his constituency will lose out if this is implemented.
Go figure......

McPartland's voting record shows consistent support for all the cuts and changes to social security enacted by the coalition - this change of heart is self-interest, IMHO.
I suspect that the same accusation could be levelled at quite a few of the Tory MPs who are objecting to this, on the grounds that they all voted for cuts before.

Not impressed, frankly.
Oh I am sure its self interest, but people who become "rebels" often start out that way. Some of them come to question things more widely.

Any Tory dissent over this should be encouraged.

I don't think this is self interest. I doubt a single Tory MP is worried about losing their seat ( they will be eyeing up their top 100 targets).

Not all Tory MPs are as nasty as Osborne, although many are worse.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 11:37 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
ephemerid wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: He's not getting away with his contorted arguments BTL though, is he. I just can't get my head around how someone such as he can put up all the right arguments against such a nasty and utterly flawed policy and then attempt to justify why the Tories want to do it and why many of them will vote for it. Some very good comments BTL.

McPartland has a majority of about 5,000. Estimates are that 5,000 people in his constituency will lose out if this is implemented.
Go figure......

McPartland's voting record shows consistent support for all the cuts and changes to social security enacted by the coalition - this change of heart is self-interest, IMHO.
I suspect that the same accusation could be levelled at quite a few of the Tory MPs who are objecting to this, on the grounds that they all voted for cuts before.

Not impressed, frankly.
Oh I am sure its self interest, but people who become "rebels" often start out that way. Some of them come to question things more widely.

Any Tory dissent over this should be encouraged.

It's how democracy should work, surely, with MPs implementing the will of the people to win/retain their votes. I'm sure Rees-Mogg isn't expressing doubts about the tax credit cuts out of the goodness of his heart. This is a man who profits from tobacco sales to developing countries, there's not a lot of goodness in him. If I made the effort to e-mail him about the tax credit cuts, then I suspect a lot of other people did too. His constituency isn't as marginal as it once was, but it's not completely safe. In some ways I view this dissent as something of a realisation among Tory MPs that Cameron and Osborne are nowhere near as clever as they like to think they are and their luck is starting to run out. They can't rely on the Libdems to knock some sense into them anymore so will have to step up and moderate them a bit themselves if they want to survive this parliament with some credibility intact.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 11:37 am

Ah, mystic TE again - give it a rest, mate.

I expect this government to be highly unpopular in a year or two, Corbyn or no Corbyn.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 11:39 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Ah, mystic TE again - give it a rest, mate.

I expect this government to be highly unpopular in a year or two, Corbyn or no Corbyn.

I agree they will be unpopular, that doesn't translate to a change at a GE. Keep sticking your head in the sand.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 11:43 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 34986.html

Gives an interesting flavour of what is actually going on - although the usual caveats around embedded reporters apply.

The recent article on peace talks however seems to be a masterpiece of spin, nothing is going to be achieved from talks with no viable opposition to negotiate with. The initial solution in Syria looks like it will be military.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 11:49 am

I have repeatedly said I don't expect Jez to still be there in 2020 anyway - but even if he is, Tories gaining seats remains highly implausible. They only managed to do so in May thanks to a probably unrepeatable set of circumstances. In particular, being able to blame all their failings in 2010-15 on somebody else (due to not having a majority) was a boon to them which several of us underestimated in retrospect. They have nowhere to hide now.

Labour would still have lost seats in 2005 (though perhaps not as many) even if IDS had remained as Tory leader. That's simply how it works.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 1:28 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 34986.html

Gives an interesting flavour of what is actually going on - although the usual caveats around embedded reporters apply.

The recent article on peace talks however seems to be a masterpiece of spin, nothing is going to be achieved from talks with no viable opposition to negotiate with. The initial solution in Syria looks like it will be military.

I thought this article was spin too, you had to resd quite carefully to see that it was a peshmerga win, if you could really call it that, though really it is a retake of their city.The photo is misleading, Sinjar lies in ruins, it is not a place for living in. So a gain for the peshmerga, but not really a victory for their people, who knows how and when this place will be restored to being habitable. I think western input in retaking it seems exaggerated, and it is likely, given the state it is in, that a truer reading is that it was part retake and part abandonment by IS as they moved on. In the meantime they continue their campaign of destruction in cities across a good swathe of nations full of Muslim people, bombing and killing with abandon while our media prefer to impress on us that the west are the ultimate target, and bury the real news under cover of talks about action, and who is or isn't right.

We don't listen, and we don't learn, because our principal interest is resources not people, and the protection of our means of extraction over the safety of other peoples cities. We need to make a correction there. We need to care more about Moslem lives and reduce the lies, the half truths, the spin, and the negation, and listen to what they are saying, listen to all the voices saying 'we are human too'.

I am daily repulsed by the way these things are reported and prioritised. I fear that action will continue to increase the problem. Let's see what emerges from the talks, but please question what you are reading and seeing, put it through a reality filter.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 2:01 pm

Afternoon.
Hope FTNers have not suffered with the bad weather.

Saw Paul Waugh's tweet:
Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 4h4 hours ago
'House of Cards' made real. Extraordinary story of Cabinet minister affair and Tory blackmail claims http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rysts.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Sorry to lower the tone, but this story may be the beginning of the Tories really descending into sleaze.

Alleged blackmail, a Cabinet minister being the alleged target.
Unless they have made up the quotes from the minister, it appears to be much more than gossip.
Blackmail is a crime, so there is the potential for an embarrassing court case where the whole mess gets laid out in front of a jury.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 2:03 pm

Tell me it isn't a ****head in Labour calling Corbyn 'Jehadi Jez' ?

https://www.change.org/p/sky-news-sky-n ... m=copylink" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 2:08 pm

The equally "witty" nickname "Jezbollah" has been around for a while now.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 2:10 pm

Also wonder whether the Tories have snuck out the alleged blackmail story to manage the fallout now, in a weekend with wall to wall Paris coverage ?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 2:55 pm

Sun slams Corbyn’s nod and gets a rise out of me
Stewart Lee (Guardian)

I don't usually find Stewart Lee particularly funny, but this one amused me. Probably worth a read if you feel like a laugh.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -out-of-me

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 3:07 pm

yahyah wrote:Also wonder whether the Tories have snuck out the alleged blackmail story to manage the fallout now, in a weekend with wall to wall Paris coverage ?

Zelo Street has been feeding this story out gradually for a few weeks now - so they must have known they weren't going to get away with it.

The last installment was a few days ago http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2015/ ... r-bus.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and I was pretty shocked when I read it.

It has - if the Mail is to be believed, and it fits with the Zelo Street stuff - now moved on somewhat. I wonder if we will get to know who the Minister is ... or that will be kept under wraps.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 3:51 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
... “So how and why we have got into this position of saying we are the party of strivers, while putting forward cuts and reforms which hit those very people, God only knows,” says the MP. Osborne had recently told the same source not to worry about a backlash in his constituency from the tax credit policy. “He said, ‘don’t worry about your seat’. But it is not my seat I am worried about: it’s working families in my constituency on low incomes, who will suffer, who I am worried about. He doesn’t seem to get that.”...
http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign ... -rebellion" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All you need to know about Osborne in those two sentences.

The MP joined the wrong political party if mitigating the suffering of working families on low incomes is their priority.

Good-afternoon.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 3:53 pm

Blowing a gale here.

Not sure if we've had this: Labour leaders join Michael Meachers family......

http://www.itv.com/news/granada/2015-11 ... l-service/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 4:23 pm

Where'd the light go?
It's only four o'clock.
The avatar is a Rowan tree, rose family.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 4:39 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Sun slams Corbyn’s nod and gets a rise out of me
Stewart Lee (Guardian)
I don't usually find Stewart Lee particularly funny, but this one amused me. Probably worth a read if you feel like a laugh.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -out-of-me

Brilliant.

"Defining offence is so complicated. That’s why it was thoughtful of the Telegraph to publish an actual graph of the angle of Corbyn’s bow. The existence of a literal calibration of offence relieves us of the obligation of understanding complicating factors like context, intent, or the agenda of the observer. Corbyn’s bow was undeniably offensive because it fell outside the mathematical parameters of inoffensive bowing."

- Stewart Lee

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 5:04 pm

A stiff letter to the council won’t stave off David Cameron’s next crisis
The sight of the PM complaining about cuts is remarkable. But it underlines how misguided the Tories’ appraisal is of the real threats to the economy

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... eal-crisis

William Keegan:

Until relatively recently the deleterious impact of the trade gap has been largely offset by a positive balance of investment income from our assets overseas. But it now looks as though the outflows of income from all those foreign-owned sectors of “British” industry have been eating into the traditional surplus. This is the real problem facing the British economy, and austerity policies that have contributed to the slowest recovery from recession on record have not helped when it comes to investing in the plant, machinery and service sectors that should be providing the capacity for Britain to pay its way in the world.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 5:17 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I have repeatedly said I don't expect Jez to still be there in 2020 anyway - but even if he is, Tories gaining seats remains highly implausible. They only managed to do so in May thanks to a probably unrepeatable set of circumstances. In particular, being able to blame all their failings in 2010-15 on somebody else (due to not having a majority) was a boon to them which several of us underestimated in retrospect. They have nowhere to hide now.

Labour would still have lost seats in 2005 (though perhaps not as many) even if IDS had remained as Tory leader. That's simply how it works.

Labour lost a shed load of seats to an incumbent government in 83. The circumstances are not the same, but they aren't that far away either. A party has no god given right to votes just because of the electoral cycle.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 5:27 pm

seeingclearly wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 34986.html

Gives an interesting flavour of what is actually going on - although the usual caveats around embedded reporters apply.

The recent article on peace talks however seems to be a masterpiece of spin, nothing is going to be achieved from talks with no viable opposition to negotiate with. The initial solution in Syria looks like it will be military.
I thought this article was spin too, you had to resd quite carefully to see that it was a peshmerga win, if you could really call it that, though really it is a retake of their city.The photo is misleading, Sinjar lies in ruins, it is not a place for living in. So a gain for the peshmerga, but not really a victory for their people, who knows how and when this place will be restored to being habitable. I think western input in retaking it seems exaggerated, and it is likely, given the state it is in, that a truer reading is that it was part retake and part abandonment by IS as they moved on. In the meantime they continue their campaign of destruction in cities across a good swathe of nations full of Muslim people, bombing and killing with abandon while our media prefer to impress on us that the west are the ultimate target, and bury the real news under cover of talks about action, and who is or isn't right.

We don't listen, and we don't learn, because our principal interest is resources not people, and the protection of our means of extraction over the safety of other peoples cities. We need to make a correction there. We need to care more about Moslem lives and reduce the lies, the half truths, the spin, and the negation, and listen to what they are saying, listen to all the voices saying 'we are human too'.

I am daily repulsed by the way these things are reported and prioritised. I fear that action will continue to increase the problem. Let's see what emerges from the talks, but please question what you are reading and seeing, put it through a reality filter.

You are wrong about that, it is a big defeat for ISIS and the American involvement should not be underestimated. Air power inflicts about 80% of the casualties in any modern land battle, but you can't win without boots on the ground. It is interesting that the American and Kurdish forces are so tightly integrated, the Kurds would have been calling in air support directly from the front lines.

Yes the city is ruined, but eventually with proper military intervention (probably including NATO troops) ISIS leaders will run out of places to hide and oil to sell.

In recent days Russian/Syrian/Iranian forces have also reached an airbase under siege for 2 years. This is the first time for a while ISIS look to be in trouble. If the US/NATO and Russia can cut a deal the end could come fairly quickly.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 5:34 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:I have repeatedly said I don't expect Jez to still be there in 2020 anyway - but even if he is, Tories gaining seats remains highly implausible. They only managed to do so in May thanks to a probably unrepeatable set of circumstances. In particular, being able to blame all their failings in 2010-15 on somebody else (due to not having a majority) was a boon to them which several of us underestimated in retrospect. They have nowhere to hide now.

Labour would still have lost seats in 2005 (though perhaps not as many) even if IDS had remained as Tory leader. That's simply how it works.
Labour lost a shed load of seats to an incumbent government in 83. The circumstances are not the same, but they aren't that far away either. A party has no god given right to votes just because of the electoral cycle.

SDP, Falklands - either of those sorts of things on the cards again?

Of course nothing is impossible. Just saying that the odds are against it - even if JC stays.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 5:34 pm

Indeed. And even two elections later, they were (in vote share, if not seats) still further back than in 1979. That's why people have nightmares about 1983.

But I don't think Corbyn intends to stay, and I'm optimistic that a "soft lefter" who rises to the challenge under Corbyn will emerge.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 5:39 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SDP, Falklands - either of those sorts of things on the cards again?

Of course nothing is impossible. Just saying that the odds are against it - even if JC stays.

Vladimir Putin throwing weight around is entirely on the cards, with Corbyn's anti-NATO baggage all over the media. Throw in a few quotes from Baltic politicians too. Blah blah we actually know what Russian domination is like etc, better than some Western fool.

That would be grim. Not to say it's entirely rational, but neither was re-electing a government who lost the Falklands in the first place through defence cuts.

But it would be hugeley effective populism.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 5:43 pm

I don't think that many people in this country want to go to war over Estonia, tbh.

(don't get me wrong I have quite a bit of sympathy for the Baltic states, but that's the truth)

And there is a surprising amount of Russophile sentiment on the right as well as the left.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 5:54 pm

I'm thinking of sabre-rattling, movement of troops etc.

The Russophiles on the Right seem pretty shallow. They like Putin because he doesn't like gays etc. I'd guess they're big fans of nukes and big armies.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 6:04 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
And there is a surprising amount of Russophile sentiment on the right as well as the left.

Might be because they don't want to think about the fact that the end of the Soviet Union was all for nothing and what they have now is just as bad.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 6:08 pm

A lot of these people were pro-Serbia in the Balkan conflicts as well.......

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 6:11 pm

Shame we don't know anyone with a sub to the HSJ otherwise they could have fleshed this out for us.

That "be prepared for a less 'national' health service" is a worry - back to postcode lotteries?

Still, I'm sure schools will be next on their list to transfer to local councils...

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 6:27 pm

seeingclearly wrote:Blowing a gale here.

Not sure if we've had this: Labour leaders join Michael Meachers family......

http://www.itv.com/news/granada/2015-11 ... l-service/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you. Michael Meacher will be very much missed - he was a great friend to our CLP over many, many years. I'm glad his funeral was so well-attended.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 6:40 pm

I've just read that '10 Days to Save the NHS' splurge from Sell Out Shirl. Wish I hadn't - the brazen lack of any acknowledgement of her / Lib Dems role in this decline has got me seething again. She identifies three major problems that have led to increased costs - reduction of training places for nurses from 2012 so more reliance on agency staff - removal of concession for overseas medical students to work here for 2 years after training again from 2012 so more reliance on agency staff - and PFI soaring costs. Two of these are products of the coalition - on your watch Shirl - and PFI costs were well known about when the coalition came into power. They had 5 years to do something about them and did nothing - indeed they signed off more PFI.

She's got the same affliction as Cameron - what's the name for the disease that means you make no connection between your actions and the destruction they cause?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 7:00 pm

From the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS):

How would you cut departments' day-to-day spending ?
The Chancellor is aiming to cut £16 billion from departments' non-investment budgets by 2019-20.
How would you allocate spending cuts between departments ?
Move the sliders below to change the budget for each department.
The graph will tell you how your plans stack up against what the Chancellor is aiming for.

http://election2015.ifs.org.uk/spending ... calculator

If you are happy with your choices, click here to see a graph summarising the changes in departments budgets implied by your plans.
The graph below summarises your choices over how to cut departments’ day-to-day spending budgets, and shows how departments’ budgets will have changed since 2010-11.
Change the tab to see the implications for departments’ overall budgets (under the assumption that all departments will see the same percentage change in their capital budgets between 2015-16 and 2019-20).

I moved the sliders for maximum expenditure for every category, I increased funding for the lot.

Your total
6.6% = changes 2015-16 to 2019-20
-3.0% = changes 2010-11 to 2019-20

Chancelor’s planned total
-5.1% = changes 2015-16 to 2019-20
-13.7% = changes 2010-11 to 2019-20

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland
The grants to the devolved administrations of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are calculated according to the Barnett formula, given your decisions on how to allocate spending to other departments.
Based on your decisions so far the budgets of the devolved administrations would be increased by £1.9billion (3.9%).

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 7:20 pm

Iain Dale ‏@IainDale 9h9 hours ago
Blogpost: Sixteen things Britain and the World must do to beat ISIS/Daesh http://iaindale.com/posts/2015/11/14/si ... isis-daesh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

I should probably run for cover after posting this link.

No 7 sounds dangerously like he's suggesting a return to the increased border force numbers that Labour / Yvette Cooper was advocating before the election. Is he expecting a load more cash to go the way of the Home Office ...?

7. Theresa May should massively increase the budget of the UK Border Force and immediately recruit several thousand new border guards. US style border checks should be introduced at key locations, but especially Calais and major airports.

rustinpeace · Post by **rustinpeace** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 8:07 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Shame we don't know anyone with a sub to the HSJ otherwise they could have fleshed this out for us.

Seeing as you're clearly trying to goad me in to posting, I'll oblige.

It's very interesting and I think you're right in saying that it foreshadows a postcode lottery situation. It posits the idea that each Local Authority could come to be seen as the de facto 'leader' of the local NHS services. As we know, the NHS as it stands is a failing, unwieldy supertanker and devolution is a bid to break it in to smaller, more manageable chunks. It will also (in theory) take a lot of the national politics out of the NHS and turn it in to a local matter.

However, the author also correctly points out that local authority leaders may come to see the 'relatively abundant' NHS budgets as too good to resist and will skim bits off of it to pay for other services. This will of course be entirely their choice. What happens when NHS services fail (as they inevitably will do, a lot) is also less clear. As we're seeing this year more than ever, NHS 'Trusts' cannot be trusted to stick to a budget, so the LAs will have to rule with an iron fist if they hope to avoid seeing their entire budgets disappearing in to the NHS black hole. It'll also be fascinating to see what happens if some LAs are more 'relaxed' in their attitude towards private providers than is currently the case.

I for one am in favour of it, not least because my home borough has a strong track record in keeping taxes low and services running efficiently. If I lived in one of Labour's overtaxed, underperforming sink estates I'd be looking to move sharpish, before this comes in to effect. If your LA can't empty the bins on time, you can guarantee they'll make a total hash out of running a local health economy.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 8:36 pm

Just reading "It's All About Me" by Utah B.Ollox.I highly recommend it.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 8:36 pm

Telegraph Politics ‏@TelePolitics 25m25 minutes ago
Cabinet minister admits to having affair amid claims senior Tory aide threatened to blackmail him http://telegraph.feedsportal.com/c/3272 ... tory01.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

The Cabinet minister is revealed as Robert Halfon. Now I am surprised. I wouldn't have expected it to be him - or that he would be daft enough to fall prey to a potential blackmailing.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 8:39 pm

Two hour response time?

Better than the NHS under this bunch of incompetents right now.

Wait. They're not in charge. Not really.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 8:45 pm

So I guess Osborne's tactics with LAs is likely to:

"Yes, we have some minor cuts to make...no, not significant really...but on the other hand look at all this lovely NHS money you can have! Oh, and if you get into trouble because we haven't given you enough - it'll be your fault"

Sound about right?

rustinpeace · Post by **rustinpeace** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 9:11 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Sound about right?

Not a million miles away, in truth.

The pros are -
a) Huge swathes of the pointless national NHS money pits like NHS England and various commissioning bodies can be shown the door on day one and told never to return.
b) Well-run, sensible LAs will be allowed to make the most of their local health economy instead of having it dragged down by the broken national NHS shambles. Services will thrive in certain regions.
c) Labour's 'party of the NHS' or 'x amount of days/hours/weeks to save the NHS' rubbish will be neutralised once and for all. Labour boroughs will have direct control of their local NHS services. If/when they make a hash of them, it'll be laid bare for all to see.

The obvious 'con' is that many/most NHS Trusts are already in a dreadful mess of their own making; suddenly handing them to local authorities is hardly going to magically erase all of their problems. Also, what if a council decides that they can get a better ambulance service from a private provider? How will that work? You're right in saying that the postcode lottery will indeed be alive and well. Got a crap local authority? Well bad luck, because you're about to get a crap NHS service from them as well. Should make local elections a little more interesting.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 9:12 pm

Jamie Reed ‏@jreedmp 9m9 minutes ago
Jeremy Corbyn's letter to President Hollande was genuinely excellent.

That's good to see.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 9:14 pm

Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 12m12 minutes ago
Four french officials have told the Associated Press that police questioned and released the fugitive suspect hours after the #ParisAttacks

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 9:21 pm

rustinpeace wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Sound about right?
Not a million miles away, in truth.

The pros are -
a) Huge swathes of the pointless national NHS money pits like NHS England and various commissioning bodies can be shown the door on day one and told never to return.
b) Well-run, sensible LAs will be allowed to make the most of their local health economy instead of having it dragged down by the broken national NHS shambles. Services will thrive in certain regions.
c) Labour's 'party of the NHS' or 'x amount of days/hours/weeks to save the NHS' rubbish will be neutralised once and for all. Labour boroughs will have direct control of their local NHS services. If/when they make a hash of them, it'll be laid bare for all to see.

The obvious 'con' is that many/most NHS Trusts are already in a dreadful mess of their own making; suddenly handing them to local authorities is hardly going to magically erase all of their problems. Also, what if a council decides that they can get a better ambulance service from a private provider? How will that work? You're right in saying that the postcode lottery will indeed be alive and well. Got a crap local authority? Well bad luck, because you're about to get a crap NHS service from them as well. Should make local elections a little more interesting.

So basically your party will completely fuck up the NHS and blame other people?

No surprise there - tactic's worked so far eh?

Wonder how long you have to be in power before you actually admit that something is your fault?

Won't happen will - it - always blame someone else.

BTW I love your depiction of Shirley Williams as being "the Left" today. A definite rib-tickler...

rustinpeace · Post by **rustinpeace** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 9:32 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
So basically your party will completely fuck up the NHS and blame other people?

BTW I love your depiction of Shirley Williams as being "the Left" today. A definite rib-tickler...

Not quite. As you live in a Labour borough, your party will completely fuck up the local NHS, then presumably try to blame someone else. I'll wager that NHS services in many devolved boroughs will go from strength to strength. Anyone living in Brighton may want to move now, as a Labour/Green combo will be an unmitigated disaster for local NHS services.

Also, I appreciate your continued obsessive support of my Twitter account. You join the likes of Toby Young, Tony Parsons and Louise Mensch as one of my enthusiastic and committed followers. Along with Toby, 'Ephie' was an early follower as well, however she disappeared around election time. Can't imagine why.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 9:38 pm

rustinpeace wrote: Also, I appreciate your continued obsessive support of my Twitter account.

Says someone who seems a tad obsessed with this place to the extent of coming on here within two hours of a post which could have not related to you at all.

Did you really think we'd be impressed with you being followed by the likes of "Toby Young, Tony Parsons and Louise Mensch"?

Off you trot now.

rustinpeace · Post by **rustinpeace** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 9:47 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
rustinpeace wrote: Also, I appreciate your continued obsessive support of my Twitter account.
Did you really think we'd be impressed with you being followed by the likes of "Toby Young, Tony Parsons and Louise Mensch"?

Apparently impressed enough to continue following me and obsessing over my tweets, yes.

Goodnight all. Just over a week to go until the next wave of cuts is announced.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 9:50 pm

Delusionary witterings of those that lack.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 9:52 pm

rustinpeace wrote: Apparently impressed enough to continue following me and obsessing over my tweets, yes.

Goodnight all. Just over a week to go until the next wave of cuts is announced.

Obsessing?

Only because you ventured over here. Again. So who's obsessed with who Rusty?

Shirley Williams. "The left".

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sun 15 Nov, 2015 9:52 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
seeingclearly wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 34986.html

Gives an interesting flavour of what is actually going on - although the usual caveats around embedded reporters apply.

The recent article on peace talks however seems to be a masterpiece of spin, nothing is going to be achieved from talks with no viable opposition to negotiate with. The initial solution in Syria looks like it will be military.
I thought this article was spin too, you had to resd quite carefully to see that it was a peshmerga win, if you could really call it that, though really it is a retake of their city.The photo is misleading, Sinjar lies in ruins, it is not a place for living in. So a gain for the peshmerga, but not really a victory for their people, who knows how and when this place will be restored to being habitable. I think western input in retaking it seems exaggerated, and it is likely, given the state it is in, that a truer reading is that it was part retake and part abandonment by IS as they moved on. In the meantime they continue their campaign of destruction in cities across a good swathe of nations full of Muslim people, bombing and killing with abandon while our media prefer to impress on us that the west are the ultimate target, and bury the real news under cover of talks about action, and who is or isn't right.

We don't listen, and we don't learn, because our principal interest is resources not people, and the protection of our means of extraction over the safety of other peoples cities. We need to make a correction there. We need to care more about Moslem lives and reduce the lies, the half truths, the spin, and the negation, and listen to what they are saying, listen to all the voices saying 'we are human too'.

I am daily repulsed by the way these things are reported and prioritised. I fear that action will continue to increase the problem. Let's see what emerges from the talks, but please question what you are reading and seeing, put it through a reality filter.
You are wrong about that, it is a big defeat for ISIS and the American involvement should not be underestimated. Air power inflicts about 80% of the casualties in any modern land battle, but you can't win without boots on the ground. It is interesting that the American and Kurdish forces are so tightly integrated, the Kurds would have been calling in air support directly from the front lines.

Yes the city is ruined, but eventually with proper military intervention (probably including NATO troops) ISIS leaders will run out of places to hide and oil to sell.

In recent days Russian/Syrian/Iranian forces have also reached an airbase under siege for 2 years. This is the first time for a while ISIS look to be in trouble. If the US/NATO and Russia can cut a deal the end could come fairly quickly.

TE, i did not post in a spirit of argument but one of sorrow that we, or more correctly our media, present so much destruction as some kind of victory. A city destroyed - how much human suffering and horror did that entail? How many lives that are not mentioned. Or even that the Kurdish feet on the ground seem to have less value to us than the feet we won't put on the ground because body bags are not vote winners. If our leaders were in this because of any conviction that human lives are worth protecting then I'd feel reassured we were'nt helping create the very thing that causes Paris, Beirut, Baghdad and so much more. We weight the scales so the human losses are so unbalanced that the dead on the 'other' side are uncountable. not to mention so faceless that we can muster compassion for tiny children, but by 18 we are sending them back to the hell holes we helped create.

The latest news: France drops 20 bombs on Raqqa.

http://news.sky.com/story/1588256/franc ... hold-raqqa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;