Monday 16th November 2015

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 6:48 pm

Sending best wishes to Ephemerid.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 6:51 pm

HindleA wrote:Sending best wishes to Ephemerid.

Me too

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 6:58 pm

Parents and I are thinking of going to Sunny Hartlepool for Christmas,it is where they were married 60 years ago,and I did twenty years ago.Staying at my "honeymoon night" hotel.We went to Teeside Airport to fly to Rome the next day,Leon Brittain was there,I think he was an EEC commissioner at the time.Excuse musings.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 7:01 pm

More on those warning letters sent by one RSC...

South-East RSC warns 7 schools over standards and threatens one with takeover

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/south-east-rsc ... -takeover/

The Chafford School in Rainham received a ‘termination warning’, which means it must demonstrate ‘rapidly’ improving pupil progress and put in place strategies to performance issues by December 1, or otherwise face termination of its funding agreement.

Rated Good before conversion...in November 2013.

Excellent decision to allow conversion to academy status then...

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 7:02 pm

Best wishes ephie x

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 7:12 pm

Research from Oxford & Liverpool Uni show fit to work policy may be linked to hundreds of suicides http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/Fit- ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 7:14 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Looks like DFH waited for a few days to have his meltdown, then.

Yesterday Peter Jukes referred to him as "The Kelvin MacKenzie of Belsize Park"

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 7:15 pm

The Independent ‏@Independent 37m37 minutes ago
Sky News takes down article which referred to Jeremy Corbyn as 'Jihadi Jez' http://ind.pn/1WWd6yf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 7:21 pm

norman smith ‏@BBCNormanS 27m27 minutes ago
Nigel Farage @UKIP tells BBC "We have a 5th column living within our country..,who have turned against us and wish us harm"

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 7:26 pm

yahyah wrote:Cllr Gethin James ‏@james_gethin Nov 13
Thank you to the Members of UKIP Ceredigion for choosing me as their Constituency Candidate for the 2016 Welsh Assembly Elections #UKIP

BBC Wales are running a series called Cardigan Bay Coastal Lives.

Kipper Gethin James is one of the lives being followed for the programme.
He runs a cafe at Aberporth, and it features him and his family.
The fact that he is a UKIP councillor is very heavily featured.
In the beginning episode he was shown at an event with his UKIP stall.

That sort of exposure will be worth votes. It may help him next May.
I'm surprised the BBC allowed such a political character to have air time in the run up to the elections.

I'm also surprised that this is the second time this bloke's name has been mentioned to me today. The first was in the local eco paint / supplies shop when we were buying some paint and the owner told us that Gethin had used the same paint on his cafe ... (he also told us not to apply it like Gethin has which is far too thickly apparently). Don't think we'll be visiting his cafe to take a look.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 7:40 pm

Oh God. I have to stay away from Facebook for a bit.
I only use it for immediate family, but unfortunately that means some of Mr Ohso's relations in the States including our daughter and her husband.
I am sickened by what most of them are saying over there and I've probably been unfollowed by most of them, because I haven't minced my words. They are shameful, disgusting, bigots.

Mr Ohso feels the same.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 7:45 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Oh God. I have to stay away from Facebook for a bit.
I only use it for immediate family, but unfortunately that means some of Mr Ohso's relations in the States including our daughter and her husband.
I am sickened by what most of them are saying over there and I've probably been unfollowed by most of them, because I haven't minced my words. They are shameful, disgusting, bigots.

Mr Ohso feels the same.

Gracious, that's horrible. I'm sorry, Ohso. I've not heard from my family members in the US for some time.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 7:50 pm

Feeling sad for people here and elsewhere who are being divided by what's happened - that's how this shit works.

I feel like I've had a group hug from you lot; thank you..... and I'm sending best wishes to all. And a huge hug to the OhSo's (UK branch)

Nighty night all.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 7:50 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Oh God. I have to stay away from Facebook for a bit.
I only use it for immediate family, but unfortunately that means some of Mr Ohso's relations in the States including our daughter and her husband.
I am sickened by what most of them are saying over there and I've probably been unfollowed by most of them, because I haven't minced my words. They are shameful, disgusting, bigots.

Mr Ohso feels the same.
Gracious, that's horrible. I'm sorry, Ohso. I've not heard from my family members in the US for some time.

Be thankful ... We wish we hadn't.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 7:52 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:More on those warning letters sent by one RSC...

South-East RSC warns 7 schools over standards and threatens one with takeover

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/south-east-rsc ... -takeover/

The Chafford School in Rainham received a ‘termination warning’, which means it must demonstrate ‘rapidly’ improving pupil progress and put in place strategies to performance issues by December 1, or otherwise face termination of its funding agreement.
Rated Good before conversion...in November 2013.

Excellent decision to allow conversion to academy status then...

Is it possible that the commissioner is firing out letters to justify their existence?

If exams etc go well, then the commissioner can say "look, I did that!"

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 7:56 pm

Oh, Ephe, I wish you weren't going through all that

How about Ratatouille with noodles, for a change? I sometimes add pearled-barley, -spelt, or buckwheat instead. And Mami swore that eating globe artichoke three times a week, as a starter, was essential 'so the meat doesn't turn to stones.'

Get well soon xxx

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 7:59 pm

The other problem is that Hodges is to some degree right in his rant, although not in his statement Corbyn is a threat to national security. However unless Corbyn takes some less dovish positions on this stuff he will be seen as a threat to national security by the tabloid reading public. Is it fair, no; is it electorally toxic yes.

Corbyn sounded too much like a lawyer just now when talking about the drone strikes, I thought.

It's a tough gig, as you say. I think he needs to sound more practical. Was the bloke killed some unique terrorist genius? Of course not. Is it worth doing? When they kill the wrong people, they're a gift to ISIL.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 8:02 pm

ephemerid wrote:Feeling sad for people here and elsewhere who are being divided by what's happened - that's how this shit works.

I feel like I've had a group hug from you lot; thank you..... and I'm sending best wishes to all. And a huge hug to the OhSo's (UK branch)

Nighty night all.

Goodnight, Ephemerid, I hold you close to me.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 8:15 pm

Controversial plans to identify bovine TB -infected farms in Wales may be blocked by Plaid Cymru .

The party has warned the Welsh Government it will not support proposals to publish information about affected farms unless it gives an assurance that information is shared in a “sensitive and secure way”.

Cardiff has said the planned on-line map will not include farm names, addresses or CPH numbers amid concerns over privacy, data protection and “intimidation”.

It insists that publication of location data would make farmers more aware of nearby bTB breakdowns so they could take precautions with their own cattle.

But Plaid fears that publishing the locations could lead to the identification of individual farm, with the information used for nefarious purposes.

At Tuesday’s Business Committee, Llyr Gruffydd , Plaid’s shadow rural affairs minister, proposed the annulment of the Tuberculosis (Wales) (Amendment) Order 2015.

This will spark an Assembly debate and vote before the Order can become law.

If the move fails, minister will be granted powers to make information about bTB publicly available.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/local-n ... s-10432680" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Worth saying this mapping and publication has already happened in England.

In other bovine TB news from Wales - a Monmouthshire AM was alleged to have said - in an article on the South Wales Argus, now removed - that the major cause of TB transmission was from badgers biting cattle ......... Yes - really. Beggars belief the stories and myths that are put out and picked up and spread by 'reporters' that really should know better. Mind you - I've not forgotten the MP who claimed that he'd heard of 40 supposedly TB ridden badgers that had been seen staggering around a farmyard by a farmer constituent of his. So stupid and risible you'd have thought it would have been savaged in response ... it wasn't and there it is in Hansard.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 8:17 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:More on those warning letters sent by one RSC...

South-East RSC warns 7 schools over standards and threatens one with takeover

http://schoolsweek.co.uk/south-east-rsc ... -takeover/

The Chafford School in Rainham received a ‘termination warning’, which means it must demonstrate ‘rapidly’ improving pupil progress and put in place strategies to performance issues by December 1, or otherwise face termination of its funding agreement.
Rated Good before conversion...in November 2013.

Excellent decision to allow conversion to academy status then...

It looks from its exam results that it might have been a bit lucky to get that Good rating.

http://dashboard.ofsted.gov.uk/dash.php?urn=140300" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On reflection, I think the Commissioner probably has a point.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 8:20 pm

I need your opinion on this here.
The final paragraphs in Mason's article I've posted below.

What would the world look like if we defeated Isis?
Paul Mason

"...three countries... have the power diplomatically and militarily to take significant action: Britain, France and the US.

The main question is the one John Maynard Keynes threw at Britain’s political leadership in 1939: what is the world going to look like when we win?

By answering this, the British and American populations were persuaded to endure total war in the fight against Nazism. So the question now is not how many bombs we want to drop on the HQ of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. It is: what do we want at the peace conference, and what will our own society look like after the struggle is over?"

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 8:20 pm

The information below scares the hell out of me.
I didn't realise France had those ducks so neatly in a row.
Is this true?

"In Nato-speak, “mobile and deployable” forces means soldiers you send to a foreign country to attack the enemy. From now on, all western democracies will have to maintain and expand such forces to be deployable at home. France was lucky in having a long-standing paramilitary police force, alongside anti-terrorist military units who, since the attack on Charlie Hebdo, had been training for a Mumbai-style event. Other European countries would have been less well-equipped than Paris to deal with what happened."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -article-5

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 8:22 pm

New Statesman ‏@NewStatesman 20m20 minutes ago
Paris shooters may have used PlayStations to communicate – it’s unlikely a Snooper's Charter would have stopped them http://www.newstatesman.com/science-tec ... nicate-it-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am sort of mind boggled by this ...

... But would the powers laid out in the Investigatory Powers Bill have stopped the Paris attacks? The signs suggest not. It’s still not known whether the attackers sent details of the attack to one another or back to other Isis members, but searches carried out in Brussels have uncovered evidence of at least one PlayStation 4 linked to the attackers. Belgian federal home affairs minister Jan Jambon has confirmed that a growing number of Isis members are using PS4s to communicate.

Games consoles that offer chat networks and communal play are difficult for security services to monitor, but under the Investigatory Powers Bill, Sony would be required to collect and store messages sent via the PlayStation Network (PSN) for up to a year. If asked by security services, they would have to pass on chat histories for specific users.

Yet even if they had done so, there’s little that would have marked out the attackers from other, non-threatening users. There is no terrorist profile on a games console – users wouldn’t use their consoles to research weapons or visit chatrooms, and their login details are unlikely to be linked to other communication devices, or even to their real identities. It’s even possible that attackers could communicate via coded forms of play within the games themselves – spelling out words using onscreen characters, for example. This type of communication would be near-impossible to detect or understand...

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 8:22 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Oh God. I have to stay away from Facebook for a bit.
I only use it for immediate family, but unfortunately that means some of Mr Ohso's relations in the States including our daughter and her husband.
I am sickened by what most of them are saying over there and I've probably been unfollowed by most of them, because I haven't minced my words. They are shameful, disgusting, bigots.

Mr Ohso feels the same.

So sorry to hear that

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 8:25 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:In other bovine TB news from Wales - a Monmouthshire AM was alleged to have said - in an article on the South Wales Argus, now removed - that the major cause of TB transmission was from badgers biting cattle ......... Yes - really. Beggars belief the stories and myths that are put out and picked up and spread by 'reporters' that really should know better. Mind you - I've not forgotten the MP who claimed that he'd heard of 40 supposedly TB ridden badgers that had been seen staggering around a farmyard by a farmer constituent of his. So stupid and risible you'd have thought it would have been savaged in response ... it wasn't and there it is in Hansard.

(my bold)

I'm finding it difficult to keep up with the mountains of stupid and risible.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 8:48 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
New Statesman ‏@NewStatesman 20m20 minutes ago
Paris shooters may have used PlayStations to communicate – it’s unlikely a Snooper's Charter would have stopped them http://www.newstatesman.com/science-tec ... nicate-it-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I am sort of mind boggled by this ...
... But would the powers laid out in the Investigatory Powers Bill have stopped the Paris attacks? The signs suggest not. It’s still not known whether the attackers sent details of the attack to one another or back to other Isis members, but searches carried out in Brussels have uncovered evidence of at least one PlayStation 4 linked to the attackers. Belgian federal home affairs minister Jan Jambon has confirmed that a growing number of Isis members are using PS4s to communicate.

Games consoles that offer chat networks and communal play are difficult for security services to monitor, but under the Investigatory Powers Bill, Sony would be required to collect and store messages sent via the PlayStation Network (PSN) for up to a year. If asked by security services, they would have to pass on chat histories for specific users.

Yet even if they had done so, there’s little that would have marked out the attackers from other, non-threatening users. There is no terrorist profile on a games console – users wouldn’t use their consoles to research weapons or visit chatrooms, and their login details are unlikely to be linked to other communication devices, or even to their real identities. It’s even possible that attackers could communicate via coded forms of play within the games themselves – spelling out words using onscreen characters, for example. This type of communication would be near-impossible to detect or understand...

The snoopers charter will stop idiots messing around with fantasy plans. It will probably also indirectly fund terrorism because all that weak encryption will be easy to break, thus enabling criminal and terrorist networks to make very many millions from scams.

However it won't stop the bad guys that planned the Paris attack. They use strong encryption and know how to stay off the radar (multiple one use phones and SIMs for example). So really all the snooper charter does is allow governments to spy on the law abiding or petty criminals whilst exposing the population to massive risk of data theft.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 8:54 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
New Statesman ‏@NewStatesman 20m20 minutes ago
Paris shooters may have used PlayStations to communicate – it’s unlikely a Snooper's Charter would have stopped them http://www.newstatesman.com/science-tec ... nicate-it-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I am sort of mind boggled by this ...
... But would the powers laid out in the Investigatory Powers Bill have stopped the Paris attacks? The signs suggest not. It’s still not known whether the attackers sent details of the attack to one another or back to other Isis members, but searches carried out in Brussels have uncovered evidence of at least one PlayStation 4 linked to the attackers. Belgian federal home affairs minister Jan Jambon has confirmed that a growing number of Isis members are using PS4s to communicate.

Games consoles that offer chat networks and communal play are difficult for security services to monitor, but under the Investigatory Powers Bill, Sony would be required to collect and store messages sent via the PlayStation Network (PSN) for up to a year. If asked by security services, they would have to pass on chat histories for specific users.

Yet even if they had done so, there’s little that would have marked out the attackers from other, non-threatening users. There is no terrorist profile on a games console – users wouldn’t use their consoles to research weapons or visit chatrooms, and their login details are unlikely to be linked to other communication devices, or even to their real identities. It’s even possible that attackers could communicate via coded forms of play within the games themselves – spelling out words using onscreen characters, for example. This type of communication would be near-impossible to detect or understand...
The snoopers charter will stop idiots messing around with fantasy plans. It will probably also indirectly fund terrorism because all that weak encryption will be easy to break, thus enabling criminal and terrorist networks to make very many millions from scams.

However it won't stop the bad guys that planned the Paris attack. They use strong encryption and know how to stay off the radar (multiple one use phones and SIMs for example). So really all the snooper charter does is allow governments to spy on the law abiding or petty criminals whilst exposing the population to massive risk of data theft.

Yes - you're probably right on it not catching / stopping the bad guys. The account by the father of one of the identified bombers of visiting him in Syria last year had him saying that ISIS use a SIM / phone chip once and that's it. Not sure that open borders is going to survive this after reading some of the accounts about how they've travelled through so many countries unchecked - or worse checked and then nothing done.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 8:55 pm

Talking of unacceptable, I give you Charles Moore at the Daily Nazi as the Telegraph is becoming (my bold).

What brings it all home, literally, is immigration. Even if it is true, as it probably is, that the great majority of Muslims are as peace-loving and decent as any other group of people, you have simple problem of numbers. If a million Muslims, thanks to Angela Merkel, are reaching Germany this year, and even if only one per cent of them subscribe to the doctrines of Isil, that still means 10,000 people dedicated to killing their hosts and assailing the society that accommodates them.

As well as the unnecessary doubt cunningly inserted, he also rather misses the point that while Syrian refugees may provide a conduit for smuggling in an operative; as a group the number of ISIS supporters amongst them is likely to be 0.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 9:01 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: I am sort of mind boggled by this ...
The snoopers charter will stop idiots messing around with fantasy plans. It will probably also indirectly fund terrorism because all that weak encryption will be easy to break, thus enabling criminal and terrorist networks to make very many millions from scams.

However it won't stop the bad guys that planned the Paris attack. They use strong encryption and know how to stay off the radar (multiple one use phones and SIMs for example). So really all the snooper charter does is allow governments to spy on the law abiding or petty criminals whilst exposing the population to massive risk of data theft.
Yes - you're probably right on it not catching / stopping the bad guys. The account by the father of one of the identified bombers of visiting him in Syria last year had him saying that ISIS use a SIM / phone chip once and that's it. Not sure that open borders is going to survive this after reading some of the accounts about how they've travelled through so many countries unchecked - or worse checked and then nothing done.

May was surprisingly on the money with her point about fixing Europe's gun laws. Still throw enough darts one of them must hit the board. How you can easily get AK47's into France needs looking at.

The nature of Europe today is Benelux, Germany, France, Denmark have so many people crossing borders that you can't put them back.

Not all the security was broken, they didn't get into the football stadium.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 9:09 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote: The snoopers charter will stop idiots messing around with fantasy plans. It will probably also indirectly fund terrorism because all that weak encryption will be easy to break, thus enabling criminal and terrorist networks to make very many millions from scams.

However it won't stop the bad guys that planned the Paris attack. They use strong encryption and know how to stay off the radar (multiple one use phones and SIMs for example). So really all the snooper charter does is allow governments to spy on the law abiding or petty criminals whilst exposing the population to massive risk of data theft.
Yes - you're probably right on it not catching / stopping the bad guys. The account by the father of one of the identified bombers of visiting him in Syria last year had him saying that ISIS use a SIM / phone chip once and that's it. Not sure that open borders is going to survive this after reading some of the accounts about how they've travelled through so many countries unchecked - or worse checked and then nothing done.
May was surprisingly on the money with her point about fixing Europe's gun laws. Still throw enough darts one of them must hit the board. How you can easily get AK47's into France needs looking at.

The nature of Europe today is Benelux, Germany, France, Denmark have so many people crossing borders that you can't put them back.

Not all the security was broken, they didn't get into the football stadium.

I read that it was a Muslim security man who stopped the bomber and was lucky to not be injured. Something else that didn't get much publicity.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 9:10 pm

citizenJA wrote:The information below scares the hell out of me.
I didn't realise France had those ducks so neatly in a row.
Is this true?
"In Nato-speak, “mobile and deployable” forces means soldiers you send to a foreign country to attack the enemy. From now on, all western democracies will have to maintain and expand such forces to be deployable at home. France was lucky in having a long-standing paramilitary police force, alongside anti-terrorist military units who, since the attack on Charlie Hebdo, had been training for a Mumbai-style event. Other European countries would have been less well-equipped than Paris to deal with what happened."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -article-5

France has always had a paramilitary police force, they killed shed load of people in the 60s, nobody was prosecuted of course.

There is an argument I guess to have a rapid reaction force of a couple of hundred people per major city able to deploy in numbers in minutes. Soldiers, lightly armed and trained in urban fighting. Wouldn't want to use them as police though, and they should be called out only when automatic weapons were in use.

Not the same as a NATO force, that would have tanks, attack helicopters and be designed to fight an actual war. It also has much slower reaction times.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 9:26 pm

@rr2: The US Intelligence Services send undercover people into online games for this very reason - I'm sure that ours do the same thing. Interesting discussion on cyber-security on last week's episode of Triangulation. Video or audio available here:
https://twit.tv/shows/triangulation/epi ... tart=false

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 9:29 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
The other problem is that Hodges is to some degree right in his rant, although not in his statement Corbyn is a threat to national security. However unless Corbyn takes some less dovish positions on this stuff he will be seen as a threat to national security by the tabloid reading public. Is it fair, no; is it electorally toxic yes.
Corbyn sounded too much like a lawyer just now when talking about the drone strikes, I thought.

It's a tough gig, as you say. I think he needs to sound more practical. Was the bloke killed some unique terrorist genius? Of course not. Is it worth doing? When they kill the wrong people, they're a gift to ISIL.

If this is accurate then it is pretty hopeless.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 36751.html

Corbyn should understand this is only an issue if you could plausibly have arrested him. By killing him at least you stop him brutally murdering somebody else.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 9:33 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
citizenJA wrote:The information below scares the hell out of me.
I didn't realise France had those ducks so neatly in a row.
Is this true?
"In Nato-speak, “mobile and deployable” forces means soldiers you send to a foreign country to attack the enemy. From now on, all western democracies will have to maintain and expand such forces to be deployable at home. France was lucky in having a long-standing paramilitary police force, alongside anti-terrorist military units who, since the attack on Charlie Hebdo, had been training for a Mumbai-style event. Other European countries would have been less well-equipped than Paris to deal with what happened."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -article-5
France has always had a paramilitary police force, they killed shed load of people in the 60s, nobody was prosecuted of course.

There is an argument I guess to have a rapid reaction force of a couple of hundred people per major city able to deploy in numbers in minutes. Soldiers, lightly armed and trained in urban fighting. Wouldn't want to use them as police though, and they should be called out only when automatic weapons were in use.

Not the same as a NATO force, that would have tanks, attack helicopters and be designed to fight an actual war. It also has much slower reaction times.

It would bother me more if France's paramilitary police force was a more recent creation. Is Paul Mason right? Will the rest of Europe have to create a paramilitary police force of their own? In the US, various security forces attached to state and federal organisations are deployed during a crisis. Most of the time, those special forces go away when the crisis is over. It's dreadful to be in a city with heavily armed combat squads, weapons ready, strolling the streets on patrol.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 9:56 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
The other problem is that Hodges is to some degree right in his rant, although not in his statement Corbyn is a threat to national security. However unless Corbyn takes some less dovish positions on this stuff he will be seen as a threat to national security by the tabloid reading public. Is it fair, no; is it electorally toxic yes.
Corbyn sounded too much like a lawyer just now when talking about the drone strikes, I thought.

It's a tough gig, as you say. I think he needs to sound more practical. Was the bloke killed some unique terrorist genius? Of course not. Is it worth doing? When they kill the wrong people, they're a gift to ISIL.
If this is accurate then it is pretty hopeless.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 36751.html

Corbyn should understand this is only an issue if you could plausibly have arrested him. By killing him at least you stop him brutally murdering somebody else.

I think there's a time and a place as much as anything. Keep it to stuff about a political settlement, be calm, cut off ISIL's funding etc. He's got to avoid questions sometimes, as I said before. I know you and I disagree on nukes, but you're right it's Labour Party policy to support them and he'd have been better advised to keep himself out of it.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 10:06 pm

citizenJA wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:
citizenJA wrote:The information below scares the hell out of me.
I didn't realise France had those ducks so neatly in a row.
Is this true?
France has always had a paramilitary police force, they killed shed load of people in the 60s, nobody was prosecuted of course.

There is an argument I guess to have a rapid reaction force of a couple of hundred people per major city able to deploy in numbers in minutes. Soldiers, lightly armed and trained in urban fighting. Wouldn't want to use them as police though, and they should be called out only when automatic weapons were in use.

Not the same as a NATO force, that would have tanks, attack helicopters and be designed to fight an actual war. It also has much slower reaction times.
It would bother me more if France's paramilitary police force was a more recent creation. Is Paul Mason right? Will the rest of Europe have to create a paramilitary police force of their own? In the US, various security forces attached to state and federal organisations are deployed during a crisis. Most of the time, those special forces go away when the crisis is over. It's dreadful to be in a city with heavily armed combat squads, weapons ready, strolling the streets on patrol.

I don't think there is any requirement to do such a thing. What Mason is suggesting is that it may be a necessity to do so. The death toll was kept down by the very rapid deployment of some heavily armed and well trained police forces. I doubt the UK has such teams (apart from the mythical SAS), what is different is a mind set that accepts risk and casualties in exchange for getting to the bad guys.

Of course you don't want them used outside of an actual event and you don't want to call them out at the first sight of an idiot with a gun. But once you actually have people being killed in number you want them on the ground quickly.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 10:21 pm

I agree that Corbyn can get too legalistic about this stuff, but maybe that is something of a corrective against those who just seem to think more bombing will magically solve everything?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 10:53 pm

I said there's a time and a place to talk about legality of drone strikes, because it isn't the issue, while one of the Paris bombers is still on the loose.

He sounded there like a backbencher there. Even if I don't think he intends to lead till 2020, I think he's got to sound a bit more "prime ministerial". Deflect some questions.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 11:06 pm

Seems it's not only the Labour Party who have their resident back-stabbers:

Alex Bell, who was tasked with creating a new social model for an independent Scotland between 2010 and 2013, said the economic case presented during the referendum was based on wishful thinking and it is deluded to continue to promote it.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/c ... -1-3949549

Of course, he's only saying what the 'no' voters already knew - but it's nice to see a senior SNPer admit it.

http://rattle.scot/snp-independence-is- ... or-shut-up

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 11:24 pm

If the model in the referendum is dead, then the one since the referendum has got to be even more dead. The further you go in terms of social commitments, the bigger the problem when you're on your own with disappointing oil receipts.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 11:33 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:If the model in the referendum is dead, then the one since the referendum has got to be even more dead. The further you go in terms of social commitments, the bigger the problem when you're on your own with disappointing oil receipts.

That's the understatement of the year

SNP estimate $110+; today's price $43.61.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 11:33 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I agree that Corbyn can get too legalistic about this stuff, but maybe that is something of a corrective against those who just seem to think more bombing will magically solve everything?

I agree with this. His calmnesss in itself is good and useful, and (insofar as it matters, absolutely authentic). But someone should tell him to keep it simple. It's where somebody other than Seumas Milne could come in useful.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 11:34 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:If the model in the referendum is dead, then the one since the referendum has got to be even more dead. The further you go in terms of social commitments, the bigger the problem when you're on your own with disappointing oil receipts.
That's the understatement of the year SNP estimate $110+; today's price $43.61.

Stop gloating at redundancies in Aberdeen.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 11:38 pm

An SNP spokesman said: “In the year since the referendum, every opinion poll conducted on the matter has shown an increase in support for independence, with some putting Yes ahead.

“This is due to the widespread anger that the UK Government has not delivered on their vow of more powers for Scotland - but also because the SNP continues to make the case for self-government for Scotland, and demonstrate a strong track record in office.”

That's made the problem go away!

FFA from 2017/8- is it a deal?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 11:44 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:I said there's a time and a place to talk about legality of drone strikes, because it isn't the issue, while one of the Paris bombers is still on the loose.

He sounded there like a backbencher there. Even if I don't think he intends to lead till 2020, I think he's got to sound a bit more "prime ministerial". Deflect some questions.

(my bold)

Prime ministerial like this boyo?

UK has thwarted seven Isis plots in a year, says David Cameron

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... id-cameron

Sure, Dave.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 11:50 pm

No, not Prime Ministerial like our current Prime Minister.

Nobody believes a word he says.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 11:55 pm

Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn are both fine people, good leaders. What gets done to Labour party leaders is sickening. The microscopic, absurd scrutiny, the jeering, relentless, meaningless disparagement of every look, gesture, word...

Look at the Tory party leader, his front bench. You've got to god damned be kidding me. Take Corbyn apart but let that set of Tory failures stand? Is that what media want me to do? No. Corbyn's fine. I can trust the man.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 16 Nov, 2015 11:57 pm

Good-night, everyone.
love,
cJA

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Tue 17 Nov, 2015 12:00 am

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:If the model in the referendum is dead, then the one since the referendum has got to be even more dead. The further you go in terms of social commitments, the bigger the problem when you're on your own with disappointing oil receipts.
That's the understatement of the year SNP estimate $110+; today's price $43.61.
Stop gloating at redundancies in Aberdeen.

Merely stating a fact - not gloating at all (nor would I ever do so - I find your remark quite offensive).
But since you mention it, oil job losses are insignificant compared to local authority losses brought about mainly by the council tax freeze:

More than half of all local government jobs earmarked for the axe across the UK are in Scotland, according to the latest snapshot.
Almost 12,000 job losses have already been announced by local authorities to meet budget cuts for next year, a new study has shown.
In Scotland, around 7,700 posts are to go in a bid to balance books next year, including 3000 at Glasgow, 2000 in Edinburgh and 1000 at North Lanarkshire.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/ ... ss_the_UK/

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Tue 17 Nov, 2015 12:13 am

Eric_WLothian wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote: That's the understatement of the year SNP estimate $110+; today's price $43.61.
Stop gloating at redundancies in Aberdeen.
Merely stating a fact - not gloating at all (nor would I ever do so).
But since you mention it, oil job losses are insignificant compared to local authority losses brought about mainly by the council tax freeze:

More than half of all local government jobs earmarked for the axe across the UK are in Scotland, according to the latest snapshot.
Almost 12,000 job losses have already been announced by local authorities to meet budget cuts for next year, a new study has shown.
In Scotland, around 7,700 posts are to go in a bid to balance books next year, including 3000 at Glasgow, 2000 in Edinburgh and 1000 at North Lanarkshire.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/ ... ss_the_UK/

I can almost hear Government Ministers saying, "Well, the Scottish Government is free to raise its own funds to mitigate against the loss of these jobs..."