Thursday 19th November 2015

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 4:44 pm

Willow904 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Kevin Maguire ‏@Kevin_Maguire 1h1 hour ago
Labour's counter revolutionaries would sacrifice Sadiq Khan to topple Corbyn. Me in @NewStatesman http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/obs ... intentions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

... No wonder, when Jezza’s implacable opponents in Westminster are growing increasingly deranged. Aware that Corbyn must lose national elections if his support within the party is to be eroded, one moderate whispered that Blairite cohorts would be prepared to sacrifice Sadiq Khan at next May’s London mayoral contest if it would trigger a regime change.

Hoping the bus driver’s son is beaten by the Tory Zac Goldsmith is the latest counter-revolution by the dispossessed...
Labour can't achieve anything without power. London mayor = power. As would winning the Welsh Assemby elections. Only from a position of power can Labour prove it's ready to return to government. Given that Kahn isn't a left candidate, his losing would only convince those on the left that moving to the right won't help, surely? If he won, but Labour did worse elsewhere, that would help Corbyn's opponents more, I would have thought.

I think that might be a load of rubbish. No direct quote there. Someone else saying what the thinks some other people think. It's clear to anybody that a very bad result next May will make Corbyn's position very difficult.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 4:52 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Very apt!

http://www.independent.co.uk/#gallery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The cartoon. Dave in his plane...

Piggles!

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 4:58 pm

55DegreesNorth wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Spencer Livermore (Labour's 2015 election chief) in the G:

Q: Why was Labour not trusted on the economy?

Livermore says the party had not taken the difficult decisions early in the parliament on welfare and on the deficit.

Having worked for several campaigns, he now thinks elections are won early on in the parliament - not in the final weeks or in the final year.
I'm trying to work out if he's right or not. Any thoughts?
For some reason, they chose not to challenge the 'Labour spent all the money and Gordon Brown crashed the world' bollocks and thus handed the Tories the economic high ground. A stupid decision then and one they are still suffering for.

A lot of experienced Labour people retired/moved on in 2010. In some ways, that pool of experience is still much diminished.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 4:58 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Labour can't achieve anything without power. London mayor = power. As would winning the Welsh Assemby elections. Only from a position of power can Labour prove it's ready to return to government. Given that Kahn isn't a left candidate, his losing would only convince those on the left that moving to the right won't help, surely? If he won, but Labour did worse elsewhere, that would help Corbyn's opponents more, I would have thought.
I think that might be a load of rubbish. No direct quote there. Someone else saying what the thinks some other people think. It's clear to anybody that a very bad result next May will make Corbyn's position very difficult.

I'm not so sure now Tubby. This - plus that Ecologist blog - do seem to be saying there is a concerted effort to undermine Corbyn regardless of the effect on the wider party. If your own seat isn't imminently up for grabs maybe they don't care ... after all - what's a few London Assembly and Welsh Assembly seats - what's a mere Welsh Labour government - seems to be of piffling concern. All I know is it's going to be bloody hard to campaign here with all this going on - and it's depressing the very people who need to be going out with a bit of spirit and support behind them - not this vile stuff.

martinson · Post by **martinson** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 5:15 pm

Good evening.
I enjoyed the plane naming efforts and would like to offer The Flying Cobra as having some potential. I'm sure that Dave would probably claim that he could pilot/chair the Cobra simultaneously and could set off on many exciting adventures to spread his honest words and even drop a bomb or two should the whim take him. You know, whenever I hear that Dave is 'chairing a Cobra' I now cringe that this is a euphemism for some unseemly bestial act, I'm not sure why?

Another difficult day for my party in the media but we will prevail. I'm glad about the difficult topics being openly debated like Syria, Trident, Tax credits.. rather than trying to compromise my views to an already settled position that I was not fully convinced of. I've read somewhere today that Jeremy Corbyn has brought a more nuanced argument to these topics much needed because of their obvious complexity. long may it continue but without the cock ups please.
Good wishes to all

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 5:16 pm

Britain has a Lib Dem-sized hole in its heart: watch the autumn statement
Edward Docx
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... orn-corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's no wonder some people are confused about who is in government, as distinct from elected to parliament, and what an opposition is and does - when articles like this appear.

He would have us believe that the Lib Dems in coalition were really the opposition - yes, really.

For a party that told us ad infinitum that they were showing they were a credible party of government ... this is a ludicrous premise. As is some of the stuff he insists they would have not supported, argued against.

But what you might usefully do – especially if you were a competent, financially literate opposition – is repeatedly challenge the speed, depth and social distribution of how, where and when the cuts come. Refuse, in other words, to allow Osborne’s self-serving narrative to present itself as the only story. And, of course, this is exactly what the Liberal Democrats were doing day-in and day-out during the last parliament on behalf of the majority of reasonable and none-ideological people who did not vote Conservative.

Danny Alexander trotted out to insist all manner of ghastly punitive punishments were wonderful and targeting the right people - bedroom tax anyone? - and if my memory serves me right he even sat and giggled and beamed along with Osborne, Clegg and co as they delivered said budget strikes on the poor.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 5:18 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Having just posted that item on Mark Reckless - former MP - trying to get elected to the Welsh Assembly - worth saying it does look as though there's more of a concerted effort by parties and the individuals themselves to get more senior (I'm not including Reckless in that descriptor btw) and experienced politicians to stand as AMs.

Very pleased Huw Irranca-Davies is standing and also Eluned Morgan.

I voted for Eluned to be candidate for Mid and West Wales.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 5:27 pm

Willow904 wrote:
55DegreesNorth wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Spencer Livermore (Labour's 2015 election chief) in the G:
I'm trying to work out if he's right or not. Any thoughts?
For some reason, they chose not to challenge the 'Labour spent all the money and Gordon Brown crashed the world' bollocks and thus handed the Tories the economic high ground. A stupid decision then and one they are still suffering for.
A lot of experienced Labour people retired/moved on in 2010. In some ways, that pool of experience is still much diminished.

I was glued to the tv in those early months, not the news but the parliament channel, mostly because we were expecting welfare reform and health changes and I'd got no personal projects on. Labour could hardly make themselves heard for the braying from the other side, in fact it was hard to make sense of much of it at all, the constant sniping was a major distraction from any matters of government and legislation. I can't think that they were anything else but a deliberate strategy. The media were all touting the Gordon broke our economy line and loads more, I'm not sure how anything could have been done differently. In this I think Corbyn has at least understood the issue in the house, if you are silent then the braying is at nothing, it looke vacuous and stupid, if you refuse to speak until it has died down but still hold the floor then you are taking a different approach andcdemanding the time to be heard. But in the early days Labour would have thought the triumphalism would die down, and had anyway been wrongfooted enough for tory ridicule to be loud and clear if anything made it to tv.
These days that kind of behaviour is a feature and worst at times which are most likely to be on the news. Corbyn is exploiting/subverting that. A lot of people seem to prefer it his way. The media is tougher they were intent on bringing Gordon down from the moment he entered office, it was entirely in keeping that they did the same to Ed and are doing so with Corbyn, the ludicrous things they are doing to discredit him are a reflection of that, expect them to get worse. I'm gutted that there are people who ought to know what the real enemy is and are still playing games while peoples lives are held in the balance.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 5:30 pm

AndrewSparrow ‏@AndrewSparrow 1h1 hour ago
& quite why anyone thinks Khan result in London will reflect on Corbyn is mystery - Khan running as anti-Corbynite - http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... d757dd902a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

That's probably a much more accurate label than 'moderate' - 'anti-Corbynite' - for what seems to be going on. But Sparrow seems to be ignoring the general effect such swipes and sneers have on people's perceptions of the party generally and their voting intention. If Khan loses people will say it is down to Corbyn - I don't really bet but I'd put some money on that.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 5:34 pm

martinson wrote:Good evening.
I enjoyed the plane naming efforts and would like to offer The Flying Cobra as having some potential. I'm sure that Dave would probably claim that he could pilot/chair the Cobra simultaneously and could set off on many exciting adventures to spread his honest words and even drop a bomb or two should the whim take him. You know, whenever I hear that Dave is 'chairing a Cobra' I now cringe that this is a euphemism for some unseemly bestial act, I'm not sure why?

Another difficult day for my party in the media but we will prevail.
I'm glad about the difficult topics being openly debated like Syria, Trident, Tax credits.. rather than trying to compromise my views to an already settled position that I was not fully convinced of. I've read somewhere today that Jeremy Corbyn has brought a more nuanced argument to these topics much needed because of their obvious complexity. long may it continue but without the cock ups please.
Good wishes to all

Thank you for that. It cheered me up.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 5:37 pm

There is an article over at the G informing us all that the weather will be getting colder.

Crikey! It gets colder in November! Who knew?

I think we need to concern ourselves with who is at fault for this, in no particular order, as follows -

1. Jeremy Corbyn. Because he has a brother who does weather forecasts, he is not just "in the know" but is at the heart of a Trotskyist plot to make our country just like Russia where it gets very cold indeed and people kill each other with ice-picks. It is a well-known fact that Jeremy has dispensed with jam-making and is now focussed on winter root vegetables, which proves he is guilty.

2. Nicola Sturgeon. It gets much colder in Scotland than it does in England, and it must be obvious that the Westminster cabal have failed to allocate a fair distribution of warmer weather to the people who really need it. The SNP have now insisted that the colder weather is spread throughout the UK and that the Prime Minister abandons his plans for EVEW (English Votes for English Weather)

3. Carwyn Jones. Not satisfied with creating and maintaining The Death Border (which he calls Offa's Dyke, in an attempt to pretend that nothing is his fault) he is now insisting that the English Parliament takes full responsibility for any cold weather in Wales, and if there is any snow visible on the Brecon Beacons next Thursday and none on Solomon's Tump in Gloucestershire he'll have something to say about it.

4. Dan F. Hodges. As a very very famous and jolly staunch Labour supporter, Dan's overwhelming whole-hearted support of Ed Miliband is now coming back to bite him - it is a well-known fact that if Ed had won the election, which he didn't despite all of Dan's amazing and selfless help, we would not have had this situation of normal weather for the time of year. Dan should thus shoulder the blame.

5. Junior Doctors. As these overpaid underworked drains on society are planning 3 whole days off, I think we can assume that their cruelty knows no bounds and they have arranged this weather in order to make their consultants work really hard while they are doing nothing as usual. (Negotiations with the Met Office have failed due to preconditions of sunshine with a side order of fluffy white clouds.)

6. Nick Clegg. No more Mr.Nice Guy! (He's really really sorry, though)

7. Ed Miliband.

8. Ed Miliband.

9. David Miliband (for not being Ed)

10. Simon Danzcuk. The weather where he lives is very frosty indeed. (But don't tell him, or he'll have you thrown off the council)

The completely expected colder weather has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Dave.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 5:48 pm

But they weren't just operating without any connection to the Tory party were they ?
Someone must have been accountable for them, signing off their expenditure etc.
There must have been a line of management leading upwards.

Is this just the usual suspects, including Toady Young, trying to keep the story out of the limelight ?

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 5:53 pm

That bit about Danny A. and his 'distributional analysis' is so rotary I can hear the whirring, RR. IDS, in spite of being taken to court to reveal such things has still not provided the evidence for welfare reform, or the missing Impact Assessments. As for Cable and his schemes and aprenticeships the less said the better. It's not just that people are confused by such nonsense, especially when prettied up in language thry don't understand, they are actively turned off it, either because it is insulting or because they see it as duplicitous. And of course, it is both.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 5:57 pm

yahyah wrote:

But they weren't just operating without any connection to the Tory party were they ?
Someone must have been accountable for them, signing off their expenditure etc.
There must have been a line of management leading upwards.

Is this just the usual suspects, including Toady Young, trying to keep the story out of the limelight ?

Yes - in my book. They may not be widely known to those outside Conservative circles but they were certainly not 'non entities' - Cameron personally praised Clarke after the election. No Shapps and Feldman were obviously accountable for them in some way - else why did people complain to them - and why has CCHQ severed links with Road Trip?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 5:58 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AndrewSparrow ‏@AndrewSparrow 1h1 hour ago
& quite why anyone thinks Khan result in London will reflect on Corbyn is mystery - Khan running as anti-Corbynite - http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... d757dd902a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
That's probably a much more accurate label than 'moderate' - 'anti-Corbynite' - for what seems to be going on. But Sparrow seems to be ignoring the general effect such swipes and sneers have on people's perceptions of the party generally and their voting intention. If Khan loses people will say it is down to Corbyn - I don't really bet but I'd put some money on that.

I don't know, I think there may be some truth to the idea that Corbyn could (I'm not saying he will) put people off voting Labour generally, regardless of the politics of the individual standing. What makes no sense is why the anti-Corbynites would want to win control of a failing/failed party. Labour needs some success and soon or it may never recover. They can easily spin Khan winning being in spite of Corbyn. If he loses, Labour as whole loses an important opportunity to make life tough for Cameron's government. If the Blairites can't see the strategic importance of the London mayoralty, their self-averred ability to win a GE has to be questioned.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 6:00 pm

@ephemerid

English Votes for English Weather (EVEW). Brilliant! Thank you.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 6:02 pm

To me there is public interest in it, particularly a look at whether black ops may have taken place & if so, were they sanctioned or known about by someone higher up the pay scale.
The Mail hints at things.

One of the obvious ways of getting nasty things done is keeping the nasty folk lower down the organisation. So if ***t hits the fan the 'no one knows who these people are, therefore it isn't headline worthy' comes into play.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 6:15 pm

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 4h4 hours ago
Corbyn has the best satisfaction ratings of any leader in today’s Ipsos poll. Farron ahead of Cameron
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index. ... psos-poll/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 6:19 pm

Barbara Keeley ‏@KeeleyMP 15m15 minutes ago
Barbara Keeley Retweeted DWP Press Office
Hope she gives answers on Govt failing to give transitional protection to women born in 1950s re SPA changes #WASPI

DWP Press OfficeVerified account
‏@dwppressoffice
Watch Minister for Pensions @rosaltmann answer viewers’ questions live on @BBCWatchdog from 20:00 tonight

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 6:30 pm

Off topic, but it made me laugh:

''Father names baby son Bermondsey Millwall Den without telling his wife''
http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... llwall-den" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I sometimes wonder about my fellow women.
Who would have children with someone who'd be so stupid ? Weird.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 6:39 pm

yahyah wrote:Off topic, but it made me laugh:

''Father names baby son Bermondsey Millwall Den without telling his wife''
http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... llwall-den" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I sometimes wonder about my fellow women.
Who would have children with someone who'd be so stupid ? Weird.

Oh, I don't know yahyah - my mum got 4 completely different names from the ones her mum had picked out for her because my grandad was so peed off at being given a piece of paper with the names on it and told to go down the registrar's office and register her. He picked 4 names out of a book he happened to be reading about / by Bertrand Russell instead. It's how I ended up with a Welsh name (his piece de resistance as my gran was Welsh but tried to disown it). She didn't find out for a while apparently and was fuming when she did.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 6:41 pm

yahyah wrote:To me there is public interest in it, particularly a look at whether black ops may have taken place & if so, were they sanctioned or known about by someone higher up the pay scale.
The Mail hints at things.

One of the obvious ways of getting nasty things done is keeping the nasty folk lower down the organisation. So if ***t hits the fan the 'no one knows who these people are, therefore it isn't headline worthy' comes into play.

I agree with you.

I think the "no public interest" because "no one has a clue who any of these people are" assertion is just an attempt to dampen down the story. People are interested in this sort of thing. I know there's no murder (as such) in this scenario - but people get interested in murder victims and perpetrators without "knowing who they are", don't they? People get interested in all sorts of murky stories without "knowing" who the protagonists are except within the context of the story.

Edited to remove an extra "and"

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 6:43 pm

Night all.

Sorry if I've been a bit miserablist lately. (Nothing new there, some may say).
It's been a bit challenging lately news wise hasn't it ?

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 6:44 pm

Hi everyone.

For reasons that I'm unwilling to divulge, I've been away from FTN for a long time. I'll be making occasional visits, but don't feel able to continue as a site moderator. My political activities have been severely curtailed and I can't really pretend that I'm any longer an activist, again, for reasons I'd rather not go into online.

I send my best possible wishes to everyone who's been kind enough to contribute and/or provide me with support in the past. You have my undying thanks. To everyone: keep the faith. As long as I draw breath I will be a socialist, but respectful of fellow travellers - you know who you are.

See you all soon, I hope.

Love,
Ernst

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 6:55 pm

oh, and one last thought for the moment: Nous sommes Parisiens.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 6:57 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:Hi everyone.

For reasons that I'm unwilling to divulge, I've been away from FTN for a long time. I'll be making occasional visits, but don't feel able to continue as a site moderator. My political activities have been severely curtailed and I can't really pretend that I'm any longer an activist, again, for reasons I'd rather not go into online.

I send my best possible wishes to everyone who's been kind enough to contribute and/or provide me with support in the past. You have my undying thanks. To everyone: keep the faith. As long as I draw breath I will be a socialist, but respectful of fellow travellers - you know who you are.

See you all soon, I hope.

Love,
Ernst

I have missed you. I understand why you are not around as much; I hope you are able to come back to us at some point.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 7:02 pm

Boris meets his public (note the other cyclist's hand)

: 2015-11-19_190022.jpg (70.35 KiB) Viewed 9042 times

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 7:04 pm

Many of us know why you have been absent, Ernst - indeed it has been mentioned on here.

None of us bear you any ill will (we all have things we would rather others did not know) and we all wish you the best for the future and that things improve for you.

Take care.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 7:05 pm

PorFavor wrote:Fokker?

Or there is\was something called a Fairey Swordfish. It would give him something to point at.

Reminds me of a bilingual (Dutch/English) joke I somehow manage to have picked up.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 7:11 pm

Hobiejoe wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Fokker?

Or there is\was something called a Fairey Swordfish. It would give him something to point at.
Far too classy for Dave.
Blimey, talk about coincidence - a Swordfish has just flown very low over my house! I think it's something to do with BRNC commemorating last week's anniversary of the Battle of Taranto, which they do every year with a big dinner. The Navy don't seem to be too good with dates - the college put on a firework party for friends and family of people who work there, and managed to hold it two days before Halloween. Good fun though.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 7:14 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Britain has a Lib Dem-sized hole in its heart: watch the autumn statement
Edward Docx
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... orn-corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's no wonder some people are confused about who is in government, as distinct from elected to parliament, and what an opposition is and does - when articles like this appear.

He would have us believe that the Lib Dems in coalition were really the opposition - yes, really.

For a party that told us ad infinitum that they were showing they were a credible party of government ... this is a ludicrous premise. As is some of the stuff he insists they would have not supported, argued against.
But what you might usefully do – especially if you were a competent, financially literate opposition – is repeatedly challenge the speed, depth and social distribution of how, where and when the cuts come. Refuse, in other words, to allow Osborne’s self-serving narrative to present itself as the only story. And, of course, this is exactly what the Liberal Democrats were doing day-in and day-out during the last parliament on behalf of the majority of reasonable and none-ideological people who did not vote Conservative.
Danny Alexander trotted out to insist all manner of ghastly punitive punishments were wonderful and targeting the right people - bedroom tax anyone? - and if my memory serves me right he even sat and giggled and beamed along with Osborne, Clegg and co as they delivered said budget strikes on the poor.

Presumably only visible with an electron microscope.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 7:15 pm

yahyah wrote:Night all.

Sorry if I've been a bit miserablist lately. (Nothing new there, some may say).
It's been a bit challenging lately news wise hasn't it ?

This line some are now pushing that the Tory Future bullying is a "non story" because (almost) nobody has heard of the people involved is a bit rum, isn't it?

By that yardstick, Jo Moore and 9/11 should never have been a thing should it? And there's lots more where that came from.......

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 7:17 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Off topic, but it made me laugh:

''Father names baby son Bermondsey Millwall Den without telling his wife''
http://www.theguardian.com/football/201 ... llwall-den" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I sometimes wonder about my fellow women.
Who would have children with someone who'd be so stupid ? Weird.
Oh, I don't know yahyah - my mum got 4 completely different names from the ones her mum had picked out for her because my grandad was so peed off at being given a piece of paper with the names on it and told to go down the registrar's office and register her. He picked 4 names out of a book he happened to be reading about / by Bertrand Russell instead. It's how I ended up with a Welsh name (his piece de resistance as my gran was Welsh but tried to disown it). She didn't find out for a while apparently and was fuming when she did.

The Showmaster was supposed to be named Ceri. His papa was so pissed when he went to register the birth (having wet his firstborn's head for several days as only a Welsh miner can) he didn't check that the English registrar had spelt it correctly, and he forgot what the middle name (a surname from the distaff side) was supposed to be. Poor old Show. He's been explaining it for years......

My older sister was supposed to be a boy called Francis. She's Francesca. I was supposed to be a boy called Andreas. I'm Andrea.
My mother finally gave up with the German boy's names when pregnant with No.3 and told Dad he could call the baby something French for all she cared as long as it was a proper boy's name. My little sis is called Susanne......

Little sis was obsessed with the Yogi Bear cartoons and has never ever been called Susanne. She has been Boo all her life.
Having married well, her firstborn, a boy, had to have a family surname as part of his given name - hubby's family insisted.
So he's G. H. Gardner Falkner. Forever known to all as Garden Fork.

Mind you, Zowie Bowie........

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 7:18 pm

yahyah wrote:Night all.

Sorry if I've been a bit miserablist lately. (Nothing new there, some may say).
It's been a bit challenging lately news wise hasn't it ?

Yes

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 7:21 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
But what about Islam? When will the Muslims take to the streets to denounce this weather? I think that's what we all want to know.

Refugees let in and the weather gets colder. Coincidence?

Noooooo!!!!!

They caused global warming, they did.

And if it wasn't them, it'll be 13yearsofLabourgovernment and failingtofixtheroofwhenthesunisshiningtheresnomoneyleft.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 7:23 pm

Alex Wickham ‏@WikiGuido 3m3 minutes ago
New Tory statement on bullying scandal. As predicted they have dumped on Grant Shapps: http://order-order.com/2015/11/19/torie ... on-shapps/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 7:29 pm

Ian Lucas Retweeted
Carwyn Jones ‏@fmwales 24m24 minutes ago
We will not have fracking in Wales #carwynconnect

That's nice and unequivocal.

We only got told about the CarwynConnect event on in Carmarthen this morning ... too late to go. And I'm fed up with going out in the rain anyway. All we seem to have done is dry off soaking wet clothes for days now.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 7:33 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Hobiejoe wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: Far too classy for Dave.
Blimey, talk about coincidence - a Swordfish has just flown very low over my house! I think it's something to do with BRNC commemorating last week's anniversary of the Battle of Taranto, which they do every year with a big dinner. The Navy don't seem to be too good with dates - the college put on a firework party for friends and family of people who work there, and managed to hold it two days before Halloween. Good fun though.

My dad was in the battle of Taranto. Came through without a scratch. Very lucky....

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 7:35 pm

Left Unity party to consider joining Labour
Far-left party launched with help of Ken Loach to decide whether it should dissolve or affiliate to Jeremy Corbyn’s party
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... emy-corbyn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ah well - we may have lost Robert Webb -

John Rentoul ‏@JohnRentoul 45m45 minutes ago
Robert Webb has quit the Labour Party http://www.totalpolitics.com/blog/45239 ... -jez.thtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

but we might have gained Ken Loach and co. I imagine Rentoul is sharpening his pencil already (although it's hard to imagine he could get it any sharper).

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 7:42 pm

Krishnan Guru-Murthy ‏@krishgm 11m11 minutes ago
#c4news again invited Health Secretary and junior ministers to discuss the junior doctors dispute. Again they all declined.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 8:41 pm

IAPT/CBT being rolled out in January 2016. Six weeks, online or by phone. Trials already underway with people on ESA

Article providing some perspective. Should counsellors work with workfare.

http://www.therapytoday.net/article/sho ... -workfare/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 9:15 pm

Laura Kuenssberg ‏@bbclaurak 11m11 minutes ago
BREAKING - Leaked document warns Home Sec cuts could 'severely impact' cops ability to respond to Paris style attack - more soon...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 9:17 pm

Isabel Hardman ‏@IsabelHardman 16m16 minutes ago
Baker Street station has been closed, loads of police cars whizzing up to it.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 10:30 pm

John Woodcock ‏@JWoodcockMP 27m27 minutes ago
John Woodcock Retweeted The Sun Newsdesk
I assumed this was satire created by a random headline generator, but no

The Sun Newsdesk
‏@SunNewsdesk
BBC broadcasts huge vagina representing Jeremy Hunt http://thesun.uk/6019BRumR" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 10:32 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Ian Lucas Retweeted
Carwyn Jones ‏@fmwales 24m24 minutes ago
We will not have fracking in Wales #carwynconnect
That's nice and unequivocal.

I'm not impressed, unless there's been some killer science published that I've missed.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 10:35 pm

From DECC (2011). There are going to be a few sparsely populated and not particularly well off bits covered by that pink.

As I say, unless there's some killer science I've missed, I think it's wrong to rule out any fracking.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 10:49 pm

Why single mums should be worried. Thornberry.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/emily-t ... 89724.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 11:03 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/120 ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NHS-on-course-for-worst-financial-crisis-in-its-history

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 11:07 pm

NHS England in new way of getting round fact that lots of cancer drugs are too expensive ruse. Drugs that are too expensive may be provided for 2 years while they are evaluated.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... ial-period" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why are NHS England suggesting this? If the government want to shit on Wales, let them pass legislation. Don't make decisions like this off your own bat.

“The Cancer Drugs Fund has done considerable net harm to NHS patients,” said Karl Claxton, professor of economics at the University of York. “The current proposals might reduce the scale of that harm but the fundamental problem remains: that the prices charged for new drugs (and especially cancer drugs) do not reflect how much the NHS can afford to pay for the benefits they offer.

“It is proposed that drugs will be paid for as part of the Cancer Drugs Fund if there is a ‘chance’ that they might meet Nice criteria within 24 months once other data has been collected. This means that the NHS will continue to pay unaffordable prices for drugs while data (without proper controls) is collected in the hope that new evidence will suggest they are worthwhile.”

Well said.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 11:11 pm

Well - Max Hastings sounding like the voice of reason on QT. He's stressing the need for policy before action in Syria - needing to know who we are for, who are our friends, what are the objectives etc.