Thursday 19th November 2015

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 4:13 am

Morning.
A skewering of myths,by Baroness Hollis in the Welfare and Work Bill debate on Tuesday.
6.15
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 7-0002.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
An excerpt:

"Tax credits did not rise from £1 billion to £30 billion, as was parroted down the other end, but they built on the almost £5 billion base we inherited from the admirable family credit of the noble Lord, Lord Fowler. Some 50% more lone parents entered work with the help of tax credits, and the income support bill fell from £15.7 billion to £2.9 billion between 1996-97 and 2012-13 as women transferred from out-of-work benefits to in-work benefits—tax credits. Add the fact that more than two-thirds of the jobs created between 2008 and 2013 were for people in self-employment with a median income of £10,000, who needed tax credits to survive, and that broadly explains the cash rise. Have we been told that at any point? Oh no, my Lords."

None the less, is the welfare bill unaffordable? No, my Lords, false again. The Office for Budget Responsibility report, Welfare trends, of October 2014, shows that welfare benefits, including pensions, as a share of national income —GDP—which is surely the true test, were 12% in 1983-84 and 12% in 1993-94, and are 12% now. They have not raced away, but have been broadly steady, fluctuating only a little in times of recession. Have Ministers told us that either? Oh no, my Lords.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 4:18 am

One more.
"over the course of 18 years, half the population has needed and received a means-tested benefit. There are not two tribes of taxpayers and benefit takers. It is a fact that almost all of us are both, often at the same time, one with another. Shame on those who deliberately inflame social hatreds with such malevolent fictions."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 4:42 am

Excuse obsession but you never read/hear the truth.Excerpt from Lord MacKenzie.
"reduction in the benefit cap. This will undoubtedly have an adverse effect on those full-time, unpaid carers who do not live in the same household as the person they care for. This can include friends and/or family members who do not live in the same property. It could also include people who do live in the same property but who are counted as a separate household. For example, an adult living with and caring for an elderly parent or sibling may still be subject to the benefit cap. It cannot be right, therefore, that the inclusion of the carer’s allowance and bereavement allowance will affect full-time, unpaid carers in this way. In my view, these two allowances should be removed from the scope of the benefit cap.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 7:58 am

Radio 4 making hay about Livingstone/Jones.
David Blunkett's been dragged out now to add to fuel to the Labour bonfire and get at Corbyn.

Did the story about the deaths and suicides under DWP regime get as many headlines/tweets/cries of disgust in the media & elsewhere as Livingston's foolishness ?

Blunkett's just used the phrase 'I want sane ....people to join the Labour party'.
So what does that mean ? He doesn't want anyone with mental health issues to join Labour ?

But of course, Blunkett's words and meaning won't get picked over, spat out in disgust, and a Twitter and MSM storm about them will they ? Will charities, Alistair Campbell, Corbyn-haters and everyone else line up to attack him ?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 8:07 am

Apparently Blunkett's been trending on Twitter, but it looks as if most are fawning over him.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 8:08 am

Here's the full sentence Blunkett used:

"I want sane, sensible people to do something counter-intuitive and join the Labour Party"

I'm doing what I'm complaining of others doing

It's just so frustrating though.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 8:40 am

&, as if to prove my point, the Guardian's Frances Perraudin conveniently omits the 'sane' word when she reports what Blunkett said.

Frances Perraudin ‏@fperraudin 3m3 minutes ago
David Blunkett urges #r4today programme listeners to join the Labour party, “which is totally counterintuitive at the moment”.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 8:47 am

yahyah wrote:Radio 4 making hay about Livingstone/Jones.
David Blunkett's been dragged out now to add to fuel to the Labour bonfire and get at Corbyn.

Did the story about the deaths and suicides under DWP regime get as many headlines/tweets/cries of disgust in the media & elsewhere as Livingston's foolishness ?

Blunkett's just used the phrase 'I want sane people to join the Labour party'.
So what does that mean ? He doesn't want anyone with mental health issues to join Labour ?

But of course, Blunkett's words and meaning won't get picked over, spat out in disgust, and a Twitter and MSM storm about them will they ? Will charities, Alistair Campbell, Corbyn-haters and everyone else line up to attack him ?

Recent behaviour by a number of Labour MPs could raise questions on their sanity, maybe Blunkett just feels it could do with balancing up.
Could have a quota, though not sure who would decide criteria, Suspect my judgement might be different to Blunketts.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 9:32 am

Morning folks. One for Anatoly ... looks like you and Michael White are sharing the same reference pool.

MichaelWhite ‏@MichaelWhite 25m25 minutes ago
MichaelWhite Retweeted Ian Politics
You know what Brecht said about that, Ian: the people have failed the party, change the people

Ian Politics
‏@Ian_Politic
@MichaelWhite the Labour caucus is fundamentally at odds with the electorate.its puzzling

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 9:40 am

Good morfternoon.

That Ken Livingstone, eh? He's a one, isn't he?

@rebeccariots2

I'm tempted to ask, "How's it hangin'?" (I am, of course, referring to your washing.) But I won't.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 9:41 am

Long before Bobby Darin got in on the act, the original 'Mack The Knife' was 'Die Moritat von Mackie Messer, sung by Brecht.

[youtube]_QXJ3OXWaOY[/youtube]

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 9:42 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

That Ken Livingstone, eh? He's a one, isn't he?

@rebeccariots2

I'm tempted to ask, "How's it hangin'?" (I am, of course, referring to your washing.) But I won't.

Hah. PF - the notion of hangin' any washin' outside in this friggin' weather is feckin' barmy.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 9:44 am

yahyah wrote:Here's the full sentence Blunkett used:

"I want sane, sensible people to do something counter-intuitive and join the Labour Party"

I'm doing what I'm complaining of others doing
It's just so frustrating though.

I was unfortunate enough to hear that as well...but for me the crowning glory was the sneery tone used to describe 'the £3 membership'...which is,of course, what I am....so I'm most definitely not welcome in Blunkettworld. I think he gave some advice to Momentum (again, sneerily referred to as a 'party within a party' - most definitely not like Progress, Compass, Blue Labour) as well - that they have to 'get real' or some such....left me quite downhearted...but, weirdly, I found strength and solidarity to continue in Hope (just North of Peterborough) from your posts (even though they express the same frustration - or maybe that's it - listen to the Bullingdon Bullshit Cheerleaders...and then pop in here for some very welcome ~~sanity~~ relief)...and now, Nicky Campbell is having a phone-in about whether it's acceptable to use words like 'mad, nuts, bats'....or, rather crucially (in my mind) 'loony'...by extension, surely, 'loony left'?...oh no - of course not - anyone who believes in social justice, a fair society, honesty and decency in public life, proper regard for international law, the return of the fourth estate to its' original function (holding power to account), well-funded and organised public services, provided to the public by the public (and paid for by the public) is quite obviously...um....hang on....how can I describe it? (Disappears in ever-decreasing circles trying to find words to replace 'mad/crazy' and 'normal')

On this, I hope that someone mentions the 590 mental health/government-policy related suicides to Campbell - and remembers to mention that the figures are from 2010 to 2013 - so it is likely to be many more for the last 2 years, but of course, we won't have actual HMG numbers (as they've stopped bothering to count or keep records).

Looking at the Jones/Livingstone 'spat' (no offence meant to anyone with mental health problems, or to diminish the nature of mental health problems) I can't help thinking that someone as experienced as Livingstone could have decided to commit such an act, in the full knowledge that Clouncy Funts' Murkydochian droogs would immediately set about him, to 'destroy destroy destroy'....but the upshot being that Mental Health is raised as a priority and the truth of the last 5/10 years becomes obvious....but maybe that says more about the state of my own mental health

Then there are also pieces like this, which, I'm well aware, appeal to my 'confirmation bias' (is that what it's called?), but are heartening (probably the wrong word but I'm still diedc*) all the same (in that it describes (I believe(TM))what is actually happening to Corbyns' Labour)...

And that's the problem. As David Cameron talks tough on shooting terrorists on Britain's streets, bombing Syria, shooting off nuclear weapons at unnamed enemies, over half of the Labour Party's MPs in the House of Commons gaze in admiration, open mouthed, wondering why their leader couldn't be more like that.
Why not someone more like ... Tony Blair. He talked tough, he walked tall with George W Bush, he wasn't afraid to unleash the dogs of war on the Middle East and Afghanistan.
Moreover most of those Labour MPs who are sniping at Corbyn from the green benches of the House of Commons know which side their bread is buttered. It was Tony Blair who put them there, after all, by imposing short lists of 'approved' right wing candidates on local parties.
And now they are at risk in a newly energised left wing Labour Party that has just elected a genuinely progressive, pacifist, environmentalist left wing leader. All the hundreds of new members that have flooded into the party inspired by Corbyn's combination of compassion, understanding and commitment to social, ecological and economic justice are hardly going to reselect them when the time comes.

http://www.theecologist.org/blogs_and_c ... is_on.html

*disappearing in ever-decreasing circles

bucking fumboils (as someone might say)...and evenaftermorntinoon all

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 9:59 am

1. A person called Cole Thornton (ie. Spinning Hugo) has posted on the Sparrow thread that France and the UK can act independently of the UN quite legally as they would be acting "in self defence".

2. "Cole Thornton" is a character played with utmost wooden-ness (is that a word?) by John Wayne in El Dorado. A gun-slinger for hire, eventually redeemed by the love of a good woman.

Re.1 - As the UK has not been attacked, I am at a loss to understand how we could act in self-defence. If Cameron gets his way, we would be bombing in a country where we are not at war. We would also add pre-emptive strikes to extra-judicial killing. Is this right? I don't think it is.

Re.2 - Is there a good woman out there who can redeem "Cole" and give him something better to do than turn up daily with a new identity in order to share his legal opinions plus much more besides? Hello? Hellooooooo? Why are you all running away???????

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 10:09 am

ephemerid wrote:Re.2 - Is there a good woman out there who can redeem "Cole" and give him something better to do than turn up daily with a new identity in order to share his legal opinions plus much more besides? Hello? Hellooooooo? Why are you all running away???????

Now that was very assumptive, maybe Cole/Hugo would prefer a good man (and, no, I am not volunteering).

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 10:12 am

98% of junior doctors vote for strike on 76% turnout.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 10:18 am

On the subject and Clouncy Funt and his journey towards becoming a 'great wartime leader'....

So far, he is surely a 'reverse Midas'...in that everything he touches turns to sh1t (can anyone honestly (even a Tory) find anything that he's done that has actually worked?...or hasn't fallen to pieces within a few hours of the announcement?)

...and, from 2008, someone called John Pilger (I know some here will remember him - it's what journalists used to look like, before they were airbrushed into the modern way of doing things)...

Laughing may be difficult, I agree, given the slaughter of civilians in Afghanistan by "coalition" aircraft, including those directed by British forces engaged in "the country's rebuilding programme". The bombing of civilian areas has doubled, along with the deaths of civilians, says Human Rights Watch. Last month, "our" aircraft slaughtered nearly 100 civilians, two-thirds of them children between the ages of three months and 16 years, while they slept, according to eyewitnesses. BBC News initially devoted nine seconds to the Human Rights Watch report, and nothing to the fact that "less than peanuts" (according to an aid worker) is being spent on rebuilding anything in Afghanistan.

http://johnpilger.com/articles/a-murder ... the-absurd

...neatly followed up by this the other day....

http://johnpilger.com/articles/from-pol ... hat-moves-

...well....I'll be b*****ed...404 not found....on a piece called 'Pol Pot to ISIS:Anything that flies on anything that moves'....describing in no uncertain terms the road travelled to get to where we are, from the US campaign in Cambodia in 1969 to today....so the 'wiping' of the internet continues apace (a rather long piece on a BBC (Adam Curtis) blog called Murdoch - A Portrayal Of Satan, outlining the nefarious (and often illegal) actions of a certain Australian-American megolamaniac and his 'companies' has also mysteriously disappeared)...where's that tinfoil hat of mine?

(Mind you - on the plus side - if it can be called such - good luck to the Monsters of Murkydochia in trying to pin Chilcot on Labour as Labours 'war in Iraq' when the leading opposition to that military action is now leader of the Labour Party)

As this is still available, I'll drop it in before it gets 'wiped'...

In a photograph of the Jan. 18, 1983 meeting, Cohn is shown standing and leaning toward Reagan who is seated next to Murdoch. Following that meeting, Murdoch became involved in a privately funded propaganda project to help sell Reagan’s hard-line Central American policies, according to other documents. That PR operation was overseen by senior CIA propaganda specialist Walter Raymond Jr. and CIA Director William Casey, but the details of Murdoch’s role remain sketchy partly because some of the records are still classified more than three decades later.

https://consortiumnews.com/2015/01/28/h ... t-murdoch/

ttfn

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 10:18 am

98% of junior doctors vote for strike action

The BMA has just announced the results of its junior doctors strike ballot.

98% of junior doctors voted for strike action. The turnout was 76%. (Politics Live, Guardian)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 10:26 am

I wonder if the government will attempt to cast aspersions on the turnout?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 10:38 am

PorFavor wrote:I wonder if the government will attempt to cast aspersions on the turnout?

Have you read the excrement by Simon Jenkins on the junior doctors and legal professionals in the G?

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 10:42 am

Lonewolfie wrote:On the subject and Clouncy Funt and his journey towards becoming a 'great wartime leader'....

So far, he is surely a 'reverse Midas'...in that everything he touches turns to sh1t (can anyone honestly (even a Tory) find anything that he's done that has actually worked?...or hasn't fallen to pieces within a few hours of the announcement?)

...and, from 2008, someone called John Pilger (I know some here will remember him - it's what journalists used to look like, before they were airbrushed into the modern way of doing things)...

Laughing may be difficult, I agree, given the slaughter of civilians in Afghanistan by "coalition" aircraft, including those directed by British forces engaged in "the country's rebuilding programme". The bombing of civilian areas has doubled, along with the deaths of civilians, says Human Rights Watch. Last month, "our" aircraft slaughtered nearly 100 civilians, two-thirds of them children between the ages of three months and 16 years, while they slept, according to eyewitnesses. BBC News initially devoted nine seconds to the Human Rights Watch report, and nothing to the fact that "less than peanuts" (according to an aid worker) is being spent on rebuilding anything in Afghanistan.

http://johnpilger.com/articles/a-murder ... the-absurd

...neatly followed up by this the other day....

http://johnpilger.com/articles/from-pol ... hat-moves-

...well....I'll be b*****ed...404 not found....on a piece called 'Pol Pot to ISIS:Anything that flies on anything that moves'....describing in no uncertain terms the road travelled to get to where we are, from the US campaign in Cambodia in 1969 to today....so the 'wiping' of the internet continues apace (a rather long piece on a BBC (Adam Curtis) blog called Murdoch - A Portrayal Of Satan, outlining the nefarious (and often illegal) actions of a certain Australian-American megolamaniac and his 'companies' has also mysteriously disappeared)...where's that tinfoil hat of mine?

(Mind you - on the plus side - if it can be called such - good luck to the Monsters of Murkydochia in trying to pin Chilcot on Labour as Labours 'war in Iraq' when the leading opposition to that military action is now leader of the Labour Party)

As this is still available, I'll drop it in before it gets 'wiped'...

In a photograph of the Jan. 18, 1983 meeting, Cohn is shown standing and leaning toward Reagan who is seated next to Murdoch. Following that meeting, Murdoch became involved in a privately funded propaganda project to help sell Reagan’s hard-line Central American policies, according to other documents. That PR operation was overseen by senior CIA propaganda specialist Walter Raymond Jr. and CIA Director William Casey, but the details of Murdoch’s role remain sketchy partly because some of the records are still classified more than three decades later.

https://consortiumnews.com/2015/01/28/h ... t-murdoch/

ttfn

URL was wrong:-
http://johnpilger.com/articles/from-pol ... that-moves

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 10:45 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I wonder if the government will attempt to cast aspersions on the turnout?
Have you read the excrement by Simon Jenkins on the junior doctors and legal professionals in the G?

Yes. He comes across as a bit unhinged.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 10:53 am

Welsh Labour Press ‏@WelshLabPress 28m28 minutes ago
On day Cameron announces new jet for himself Welsh ministers&councils discuss impact of Tory cuts on public services
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-34857298" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Very sobering figures.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 10:57 am

Sorry folks. Special apologies to Toby - I know how you feel re McVey and I share your .....

Joe Watts ‏@JoeWatts_ 30m30 minutes ago
Joe Watts Retweeted Dept for Transport
Esther McVey's back....

Dept for TransportVerified account
‏@transportgovuk
Esther McVey appointed as the new Chair of the British Transport Police Authority http://bit.ly/214FgGY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So she didn't have to queue up at the Job Centre then.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 10:58 am

Sarah Champion MP Retweeted
John Prescott ‏@johnprescott 11 hrs11 hours ago

So ahead of the #spendingreview Cameron will spend £10m of taxpayers money on his own personal jet #ConAir

http://bbc.in/1MnuP9C" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 11:02 am

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/we ... d-disabled" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Following the tax credit row, the welfare axe could fall on renters and disabled claimants

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 11:06 am

gilsey wrote:98% of junior doctors vote for strike on 76% turnout.

So much for the Rhyming Slang line that their "militant" leaders didn't represent ordinary sensible members, then!

(this sort of thing has other applications currently, of course)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 11:09 am

99.4% voted for industrial action

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 11:11 am

Just to comment on the Ecologist blog article that Lonewolfie linked to ... saying that there is a plot by some 'moderate' MPs to work with the media to undermine and pillory Corbyn to such a degree that members, including those who support Corbyn, are so mightily pissed off they will get rid of him and vote someone else in.

This member won't be voting for any more of that grouping - no way. Yes, I'll be pissed off but not in the way you want.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 11:12 am

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... ect-impact" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What effects have fit-for-work tests had on people's mental health?
Recent research suggests tougher work assessments testing eligibility for disability benefit may have taken a serious toll on mental health in England. Does the report ring true to you? Share your stories

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 11:20 am

HindleA wrote:http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/we ... d-disabled

Following the tax credit row, the welfare axe could fall on renters and disabled claimants

My low opinion of Osborne tells me he is, sadly, only too likely to take the options that hit disabled people, in particular, and other groups that are the least visible / apparent and therefore he can get away with it with less public backlash. I hope I'm wrong - but as it's set out here it seems these options are the sneakiest, quietest ways to punish people and get money - Pure Osborne. I wonder why he didn't do this first off - rather than provoke the backlash. Maybe he wanted to look as though he settled for a 'softer' option - while it is anything but that.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 11:20 am

FOI correspondence to the DWP requesting info on ESA suicide risk assessment https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... ssessments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

: ScreenShot01059.jpg (57.25 KiB) Viewed 10356 times

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 11:29 am

Liz McInnes ‏@LizMcInnesMP 6m6 minutes ago London, England
Leader of the House assures me that Jeremy Hunt will "shortly" come to the chamber to respond to #juniordoctors 98% vote for a full strike.

Expect more misleading rubbish.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 11:34 am

No reaction that I can find, so far, from the Government on the results of the strike ballot. Since the strike has been on the cards for some time I'd have thought that they'd have had at least a holding response worked out in advance. Has something taken them by surprise (the figures, for example)?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 11:36 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Liz McInnes ‏@LizMcInnesMP 6m6 minutes ago London, England
Leader of the House assures me that Jeremy Hunt will "shortly" come to the chamber to respond to #juniordoctors 98% vote for a full strike.
Expect more misleading rubbish.

Whoops!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 11:37 am

Young People Might Vote For Hitler If They Are Given The Vote, Says Lord
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/11 ... _hp_ref=uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Young people should not be allowed to vote because there is a risk they could be easily persuaded to support a Hitler-like figure, a member of the House of Lords has warned.

The Earl of Listowel, a hereditary member of the Lords, made the claim as peers debated lowering the voting age for the upcoming European Union referendum...

Lost for words.

Coming on the heels of the revelations about the tactics going on in Conservative Future and Road Trip ... quite something. And from a 'hereditary' peer.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 11:38 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Just to comment on the Ecologist blog article that Lonewolfie linked to ... saying that there is a plot by some 'moderate' MPs to work with the media to undermine and pillory Corbyn to such a degree that members, including those who support Corbyn, are so mightily pissed off they will get rid of him and vote someone else in.

This member won't be voting for any more of that grouping - no way. Yes, I'll be pissed off but not in the way you want.

Hence my statement the other day that this is exactly the wrong time for people to even be thinking of leaving the party.

(sorry if one or two on here seemed to take that personally, it was certainly not my intention)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 11:44 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Sorry folks. Special apologies to Toby - I know how you feel re McVey and I share your .....

Joe Watts ‏@JoeWatts_ 30m30 minutes ago
Joe Watts Retweeted Dept for Transport
Esther McVey's back....

Dept for TransportVerified account
‏@transportgovuk
Esther McVey appointed as the new Chair of the British Transport Police Authority http://bit.ly/214FgGY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So she didn't have to queue up at the Job Centre then.

That's because we live in a meritocracy . . . .

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 12:02 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/we ... d-disabled

Following the tax credit row, the welfare axe could fall on renters and disabled claimants

I wish the fools that write such articles really did their research, it really irks me to see them still using phrasee like 'move to cheaper properties' and 'UC will smooth the transistions in and out of work'. The article is informative and axiety inducing for those of us who are vulnerable to cuts, but emollient and soothing to those who. want to be seen as doing the right thing.

In many cases, especially the families who will be caught in the UC/benefits cap trap and who have been in their home even for a short while, a couple of years or so, there are NO cheaper properties. You would have to scour the country and move away from work, schools, support and stability to find cheaper. Thats the reality, reduce housing support and your food budget is ****ed, unless you are in social housing you are already likely to be getting less than your LHR. It is means tested, and there is little room for any personal flexibility these days. So even the term 'move to cheaper' is a vapid nothing. What it really means is move to smaller, less suitable, overcrowded. Landlords won't be impressed either, they can be prosecuted for that too. So will they de-regulate housing? And aren't there enough illegally operating landlords all ready?

'Smooth' UC transitions already covered here yesterday, there are none, six weeks in best case scenarios, that is with no departmental fuck-ups and dependent on you being able to supply the required evidence. A mega-sized pileup waiting to happen. That is long enough for any modern-living person to fall into arrears with everything.

It's this kind of safe playing of language that grabs me everytime, it's not enough to just tell us the bad news, they don't have to pander to the people who cause it.

Apologies, A., this is no critique of you and the information here, I just hate the double-speak, it is everything that is wrong with the present.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 12:05 pm

New name for Cameron's private jet --- The Bullingdon bullet.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 12:26 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Just to comment on the Ecologist blog article that Lonewolfie linked to ... saying that there is a plot by some 'moderate' MPs to work with the media to undermine and pillory Corbyn to such a degree that members, including those who support Corbyn, are so mightily pissed off they will get rid of him and vote someone else in.

This member won't be voting for any more of that grouping - no way. Yes, I'll be pissed off but not in the way you want.
Hence my statement the other day that this is exactly the wrong time for people to even be thinking of leaving the party.

(sorry if one or two on here seemed to take that personally, it was certainly not my intention)

Sorry too.
I've always valued your calmness, common sense and breadth of knowledge even if not always appearing to do so.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 12:31 pm

Blimey...didn't read the original interview because of the Sunday Times paywall.

''Over the weekend the BBC’s former political editor confessed — in an interview in the Sunday Times — that he had written to several BBC colleagues over concerns that the corporation’s political coverage is biased against Jeremy Corbyn. When asked by Lynn Barber whether he was ‘shocked’ by the way the BBC ‘rubbish Jeremy Corbyn’, Robinson replied ‘yes’:

‘Yes. Oddly, although I was off work, I did drop a note to a few people after his first weekend saying this is really interesting and we owe it to the audience to sound as if we’re interested.’'
http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/1 ... t-the-bbc/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nick Robinson turning into one of the good guys ?
No wonder things feel so weird at the moment.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 12:31 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Just to comment on the Ecologist blog article that Lonewolfie linked to ... saying that there is a plot by some 'moderate' MPs to work with the media to undermine and pillory Corbyn to such a degree that members, including those who support Corbyn, are so mightily pissed off they will get rid of him and vote someone else in.

This member won't be voting for any more of that grouping - no way. Yes, I'll be pissed off but not in the way you want.

There was an astonishing Twitter exchange last night involving Dan Hodges (who else) complaining about new members of the Labour Party:

Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges · Nov 17
The Labour party is allowing itself to be destroyed to appease people who 12 weeks ago weren't even members of the Labour party.

Ollie Sayeed ‏@olliesayeed · Nov 17
@DPJHodges It's difficult when democracy doesn't go the way you want it, isn't it?

Dan Hodges ‏@DPJHodges · Nov 17
@olliesayeed Yes, which is why some times democracy has to be ignored.

mr_ceebs ‏@mr_ceebs · Nov 17
@DPJHodges @olliesayeed "We stand for democracy, unless it's inconvenient" time to polish those jackboots Dan

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 12:34 pm

Maybe we were all wrong in suggesting DFH would join the Tories sooner or later.......

Perhaps it will actually be UKIP?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 12:37 pm

Amazing hypocrisy isn't it ?

Ok for Hodges to diss democracy, yet he and others wail about anyone who supports a new vision for Labour as being somehow Trots or Stalinist.

Blunkett says something stupid, it gets ignored.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 12:39 pm

ohsocynical wrote:New name for Cameron's private jet --- The Bullingdon bullet.

I was going with Sopwith Cametal
(Seat of Pants With Cam et al)
Didn't quite work though.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 12:41 pm

How about Albatross ?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 12:41 pm

Or Air Force Diddly Squat.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 12:46 pm

Sleazyjet

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 19 Nov, 2015 12:49 pm

Fokker?

Or there is\was something called a Fairey Swordfish. It would give him something to point at.