Tuesday 24th November 2015
Posted: Tue 24 Nov, 2015 7:32 am
Morning all.
Ditto.refitman wrote:Apparently Yougov polled all those who could have voted in the Labour leadership elections Times (paywall). Now, it looks like good news (66% think Corbyn is doing well), but I think I missed the email.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... itics-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;YouGov also asked about Britain taking part in air strikes against Islamic State in Syria. A majority of adults (58%) are in favour, and 49% of Labour voters support bombing.
But amongst Labour members and those eligible to vote in the leadership contest (affiliated supporters and registered supporters) the figure is just 30%. And, amongst those who voted for Corbyn, the figure is a mere 14%.
I was listening to that. I don't know who the interviewer was, but they sounded absolutely horrified that such criticism of Cameron's government was going out live on air and there was seemingly nothing they could do to stop it!Paddy Ashdown, the former Lib Dem leader, has accused David Cameron of suppressing a report on the Muslim Brotherhood to please Saudi Arabia. He made the claim this morning in an interview on the Today programme in which he claimed that the Tories were too soft on Arab countries which have helped to fund Islamic State (Isis).
I hope the pilots will be ok, and it seems they're not in Daesh territory, which is good.StephenDolan wrote:
Turkey and Russia sounds disturbing.
Cameron's drowning in fiscal problems of his own making at the moment. Winning a Syria vote - any Syria vote - has become a totemic salve for his much tarnished reputation. I think there are enough symathetic Labour MPs for him to win, but it is likely to be on their terms, not his. I suspect that's the most we can hope for now the UN has fudged a sort of mandate for war on Isis.Temulkar wrote:You know in spite of all the shrill warmongering, Turkey shooting down a russian jet is a game changer. I have a sneaking suspiscion that Dave is going to lose another Syria vote, and that Corbyn will be on the right side of the argument. How the bloodthirsty blairites and armchair generals in the press and public will spin that could be interesting - contortions worthy of a Barnum show is my guess. The mood seems to have subtly shifted from the anger at Paris and desire for a knee jerk vengeance bombing, to a more considered wtf are we actually doing.
Sorry, Corbyn has to go.yahyah wrote:
Come on all Labour MPs.
Get behind the majority of Labour members and remember just who you should be fighting.
The pic's a clue for those who think people like RR, Ephie and myself are the enemy.
Stop helping the media, force them to confront what the Tories are doing instead of earning money from dissing Corbyn and the grassroots.
That's the spirit.TechnicalEphemera wrote:Sorry, Corbyn has to go.yahyah wrote:
Come on all Labour MPs.
Get behind the majority of Labour members and remember just who you should be fighting.
The pic's a clue for those who think people like RR, Ephie and myself are the enemy.
Stop helping the media, force them to confront what the Tories are doing instead of earning money from dissing Corbyn and the grassroots.
Pretending otherwise is just gifting the Tories a huge election victory in 2020. The Labour Party has a duty to be electable, he isn't as the polling numbers show. Corbyn really has nobody to blame for this but himself.
This is good old Turkey standing up for ISIS. Presumably Russia will retaliate by shooting one of theirs down over Syria the next time they are bombing the Kurds.gilsey wrote:I hope the pilots will be ok, and it seems they're not in Daesh territory, which is good.StephenDolan wrote:
Turkey and Russia sounds disturbing.
Having said that, it's a timely reminder to the warmongers that bombing raids aren't risk-free.
TechnicalEphemera wrote:Sorry, Corbyn has to go.yahyah wrote:
Come on all Labour MPs.
Get behind the majority of Labour members and remember just who you should be fighting.
The pic's a clue for those who think people like RR, Ephie and myself are the enemy.
Stop helping the media, force them to confront what the Tories are doing instead of earning money from dissing Corbyn and the grassroots.
Pretending otherwise is just gifting the Tories a huge election victory in 2020. The Labour Party has a duty to be electable, he isn't as the polling numbers show. Corbyn really has nobody to blame for this but himself.
I have great sympathy for your view. I agree with Corbyn on several issues, but I remain unconvinced he can sell his very worthy vision to the wider electorate. We need a Labour leader that can engender confidence in voters, someone who looks and seems conventional, at least on the surface, regardless of actual policy, which many voters have little interest in. There are some very capable people within the PLP who are all but invisible, while we have Diane Abbott making on policy on the hoof live on tv. With the best will in the world, I can't see it working and I don't share others complacency that Labour can risk bad results next May for the good of the longer term. There may not be a longer term for Labour at this rate, which is why I sympathise with MPs who are struggling to give Corbyn a proper chance. He may be popular with members, but he doesn't seem to be cutting it with Labour voters, which can't be ignored, regardless of the reasons why that may be, such as the influence of a biased press.TechnicalEphemera wrote:Sorry, Corbyn has to go.yahyah wrote:
Come on all Labour MPs.
Get behind the majority of Labour members and remember just who you should be fighting.
The pic's a clue for those who think people like RR, Ephie and myself are the enemy.
Stop helping the media, force them to confront what the Tories are doing instead of earning money from dissing Corbyn and the grassroots.
Pretending otherwise is just gifting the Tories a huge election victory in 2020. The Labour Party has a duty to be electable, he isn't as the polling numbers show. Corbyn really has nobody to blame for this but himself.
Corbyn isn't electable and he has made no attempts to be so. It is this latter point (stupidity like the CND gig, hopelessness on security) and a lack of interest in compromise (how many times is he going to humiliate Maria Eagle for example) that pretty much show he is doomed. He didn't have to behave like this, it could have worked, but as others pointed out before he was elected he doesn't know how to lead.StephenDolan wrote:That's the spirit.TechnicalEphemera wrote:Sorry, Corbyn has to go.yahyah wrote:https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUjpKj1WIAAmJT_.jpg
Come on all Labour MPs.
Get behind the majority of Labour members and remember just who you should be fighting.
The pic's a clue for those who think people like RR, Ephie and myself are the enemy.
Stop helping the media, force them to confront what the Tories are doing instead of earning money from dissing Corbyn and the grassroots.
Pretending otherwise is just gifting the Tories a huge election victory in 2020. The Labour Party has a duty to be electable, he isn't as the polling numbers show. Corbyn really has nobody to blame for this but himself.
Who do you think should be leader? How do you foresee them becoming the elected leader? Can you please indicate the evidence that they are deemed electable by the public?
" I don't care who, anything is better than this, but I would rule out a Blairite. At the point the PLP has a candidate that meets general approval they can dump Corbyn. "TechnicalEphemera wrote:Corbyn isn't electable and he has made no attempts to be so. It is this latter point (stupidity like the CND gig, hopelessness on security) and a lack of interest in compromise (how many times is he going to humiliate Maria Eagle for example) that pretty much show he is doomed. He didn't have to behave like this, it could have worked, but as others pointed out before he was elected he doesn't know how to lead.StephenDolan wrote:That's the spirit.TechnicalEphemera wrote: Sorry, Corbyn has to go.
Pretending otherwise is just gifting the Tories a huge election victory in 2020. The Labour Party has a duty to be electable, he isn't as the polling numbers show. Corbyn really has nobody to blame for this but himself.
Who do you think should be leader? How do you foresee them becoming the elected leader? Can you please indicate the evidence that they are deemed electable by the public?
Pinning any hopes for a Labour government on Corbyn is delusional.
The leader needs to be centre left, a serious politician with charisma, some sort of ability to judge the public mood. They also need to be acceptable to 85% of the parliamentary party.
I don't care who, anything is better than this, but I would rule out a Blairite. At the point the PLP has a candidate that meets general approval they can dump Corbyn.
Hilary Benn? Angela Eagle? There aren't many experienced people who haven't already been rejected by members, that's the problem. The most attractive options, such as newbies like Jarvis or Starmer, are just as big a gamble as Corbyn, given their lack of experience. The party made a mistake by not going for Burnham or Cooper in the first place. The Tories avoid such mistakes by only giving members a choice between contenders they actually want. Ed gave the MPs this ability, which they stupidly stuffed up, so the blame lies with the PLP, but that's small comfort for those of us facing over a decade of right-wing crap.StephenDolan wrote:" I don't care who, anything is better than this, but I would rule out a Blairite. At the point the PLP has a candidate that meets general approval they can dump Corbyn. "TechnicalEphemera wrote:Corbyn isn't electable and he has made no attempts to be so. It is this latter point (stupidity like the CND gig, hopelessness on security) and a lack of interest in compromise (how many times is he going to humiliate Maria Eagle for example) that pretty much show he is doomed. He didn't have to behave like this, it could have worked, but as others pointed out before he was elected he doesn't know how to lead.StephenDolan wrote: That's the spirit.
Who do you think should be leader? How do you foresee them becoming the elected leader? Can you please indicate the evidence that they are deemed electable by the public?
Pinning any hopes for a Labour government on Corbyn is delusional.
The leader needs to be centre left, a serious politician with charisma, some sort of ability to judge the public mood. They also need to be acceptable to 85% of the parliamentary party.
I don't care who, anything is better than this, but I would rule out a Blairite. At the point the PLP has a candidate that meets general approval they can dump Corbyn.
Yes, yes, yes but who do you suggest? You advocate him going now, right now, so who should replace him?
StephenDolan wrote:" I don't care who, anything is better than this, but I would rule out a Blairite. At the point the PLP has a candidate that meets general approval they can dump Corbyn. "TechnicalEphemera wrote:Corbyn isn't electable and he has made no attempts to be so. It is this latter point (stupidity like the CND gig, hopelessness on security) and a lack of interest in compromise (how many times is he going to humiliate Maria Eagle for example) that pretty much show he is doomed. He didn't have to behave like this, it could have worked, but as others pointed out before he was elected he doesn't know how to lead.StephenDolan wrote: That's the spirit.
Who do you think should be leader? How do you foresee them becoming the elected leader? Can you please indicate the evidence that they are deemed electable by the public?
Pinning any hopes for a Labour government on Corbyn is delusional.
The leader needs to be centre left, a serious politician with charisma, some sort of ability to judge the public mood. They also need to be acceptable to 85% of the parliamentary party.
I don't care who, anything is better than this, but I would rule out a Blairite. At the point the PLP has a candidate that meets general approval they can dump Corbyn.
Yes, yes, yes but who do you suggest? You advocate him going now, right now, so who should replace him?
I make helpful contributions all the time, maybe if you were here more often you would have noticed.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Nice to see Tem making his usual helpful contribution to the debate!!
Not me. I'm on a tablet, on the android browser.PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.
All the pages here are too wide, today. Is anyone else experiencing the same problem?
Can you see a particular post that is causing a problem? I can see if I can adjust the formatting if so.PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.
All the pages here are too wide, today. Is anyone else experiencing the same problem?
Temulkar wrote:
Theyre plan is to scweam and scweam and scweam until they are sick. Its called the Violet Elizabeth approach to politics. Rationality and reason are dumped in favour of sneers and smears and chanting the same mantra over and over hopiing that somebody/anybody will join in; press, tories etc etc ad nauseum. Labour's poolling is up on the GE, Corbyns satisfaction is fine with the membership, in spite of every smear leak and outright lie, and Oldham is looking like a safe win. Therin lies the problem for the scweamers. They are on the wrong side in history; they have become the new militant. As an outsider looking in, it's hilarious if saddening that they would debase themselves so.
Temulkar wrote:I make helpful contributions all the time, maybe if you were here more often you would have noticed.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Nice to see Tem making his usual helpful contribution to the debate!!
Hello. Now I've pinned it down, it's the ones which are associated with the photo' of the Commons. Unfortunately, loads of posts have used it! Thanks (in advance) for your help. And - well, thanks in general!refitman wrote:Can you see a particular post that is causing a problem? I can see if I can adjust the formatting if so.PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.
All the pages here are too wide, today. Is anyone else experiencing the same problem?
And TE?TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Nice to see Tem making his usual helpful contribution to the debate!!
More helpful than both your posts today, Chuckles.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Temulkar wrote:I make helpful contributions all the time, maybe if you were here more often you would have noticed.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Nice to see Tem making his usual helpful contribution to the debate!!
Temulkar wrote:More helpful than both your posts today, Chuckles.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Temulkar wrote: I make helpful contributions all the time, maybe if you were here more often you would have noticed.
That any better? I've taken away the image (but left the link) from the nested posts.PorFavor wrote:Hello. Now I've pinned it down, it's the ones which are associated with the photo' of the Commons. Unfortunately, loads of posts have used it! Thanks (in advance) for your help. And - well, thanks in general!refitman wrote:Can you see a particular post that is causing a problem? I can see if I can adjust the formatting if so.PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.
All the pages here are too wide, today. Is anyone else experiencing the same problem?
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Temulkar wrote:More helpful than both your posts today, Chuckles.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
Perfect - thank you.refitman wrote:That any better? I've taken away the image (but left the link) from the nested posts.PorFavor wrote:Hello. Now I've pinned it down, it's the ones which are associated with the photo' of the Commons. Unfortunately, loads of posts have used it! Thanks (in advance) for your help. And - well, thanks in general!refitman wrote: Can you see a particular post that is causing a problem? I can see if I can adjust the formatting if so.
TE's view, while not palatable to many here, is obviously heartfelt and maybe born out of frustration. Now personally I think it is too early to say Corbyn has failed, I think (hope) he will recover from the early missteps (and Abbott will get herself sacked soon enough anyway) and could prove to be effective; like Ephe I would prefer that we had stuck with Ed and shown him the same loyalty being demanded by Corbyn's supporters but, hey ho, that is not going to happen.howsillyofme1 wrote:And TE?TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Nice to see Tem making his usual helpful contribution to the debate!!
The party made a mistake by not going on their knees and begging Ed to stay.Willow904 wrote: The party made a mistake by not going for Burnham or Cooper in the first place. The Tories avoid such mistakes by only giving members a choice between contenders they actually want. Ed gave the MPs this ability, which they stupidly stuffed up, so the blame lies with the PLP, but that's small comfort for those of us facing over a decade of right-wing crap.
Yes. He was impressive on Newsnight last night.gilsey wrote:The party made a mistake by not going on their knees and begging Ed to stay.Willow904 wrote: The party made a mistake by not going for Burnham or Cooper in the first place. The Tories avoid such mistakes by only giving members a choice between contenders they actually want. Ed gave the MPs this ability, which they stupidly stuffed up, so the blame lies with the PLP, but that's small comfort for those of us facing over a decade of right-wing crap.
I console myself with believing that he wouldn't have anyway.
And he will go. But in his own time.TechnicalEphemera wrote:Sorry, Corbyn has to go.yahyah wrote:
Come on all Labour MPs.
Get behind the majority of Labour members and remember just who you should be fighting.
The pic's a clue for those who think people like RR, Ephie and myself are the enemy.
Stop helping the media, force them to confront what the Tories are doing instead of earning money from dissing Corbyn and the grassroots.
Pretending otherwise is just gifting the Tories a huge election victory in 2020. The Labour Party has a duty to be electable, he isn't as the polling numbers show. Corbyn really has nobody to blame for this but himself.
What does this actually mean?'until they get what you want,help'HindleA wrote:Neutral question.How the ##ck does people leaving/threatening to leave the Party-Anybody -until they get what you want,help?What is the priority?
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:TE's view, while not palatable to many here, is obviously heartfelt and maybe born out of frustration. Now personally I think it is too early to say Corbyn has failed, I think (hope) he will recover from the early missteps (and Abbott will get herself sacked soon enough anyway) and could prove to be effective; like Ephe I would prefer that we had stuck with Ed and shown him the same loyalty being demanded by Corbyn's supporters but, hey ho, that is not going to happen.howsillyofme1 wrote:And TE?TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Nice to see Tem making his usual helpful contribution to the debate!!
I post here very little these days, partly because of internet access difficulties, but also because the atmosphere here has become increasing nasty. I cherished the notion that this forum was, like the Labour Party, a broad church which could accommodate a range of views but I am genuinely beginning to question whether that is the case; the fact that Tem feels he can come on here and make such a openly derisive comment toward another poster with impunity concerns me - the fact that he appears to be right saddens me.
Your 'thinking' and 'hoping' is always welcome as far as I'm concerned, whatever your opinion, and I feel it's good that this forum reflects different views. I'm also happy to read TE's contributions myself, I'm open minded, but given the MSM spent the last 5 years insisting Ed Miliband was "unelectable" with the explicit purpose of turning opinion into fact, I can understand why some people may react negatively to this type of comment.TheGrimSqueaker wrote:TE's view, while not palatable to many here, is obviously heartfelt and maybe born out of frustration. Now personally I think it is too early to say Corbyn has failed, I think (hope) he will recover from the early missteps (and Abbott will get herself sacked soon enough anyway) and could prove to be effective; like Ephe I would prefer that we had stuck with Ed and shown him the same loyalty being demanded by Corbyn's supporters but, hey ho, that is not going to happen.howsillyofme1 wrote:And TE?TheGrimSqueaker wrote:Nice to see Tem making his usual helpful contribution to the debate!!
I post here very little these days, partly because of internet access difficulties, but also because the atmosphere here has become increasing nasty. I cherished the notion that this forum was, like the Labour Party, a broad church which could accommodate a range of views but I am genuinely beginning to question whether that is the case; the fact that Tem feels he can come on here and make such a openly derisive comment toward another poster with impunity concerns me - the fact that he appears to be right saddens me.