Friday 4th December 2015

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 6:58 am

Morning all.

"But why the fall in turn-out. Given the so called Corbyn Phenomenon."

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hmm, I wonder if anyone can work that out.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 7:36 am

Morning.

Just heard the result for Oldham.
Well done to the campaign team.

Farage on Radio 4, reverting to his inner ~~racist~~ man, whining about people not being able to speak English in Oldham and claiming mass postal vote fraud.
He did have to admit Labour would have won comfortably even without the postal votes.

Wasn't this all about a vote of confidence in the leader ?
When's Farage going to be ousted ?

& wonder how David Blunkett and his pals are feeling this morning.
He was squawking on The World Tonight a few nights ago about Labour heading for disaster in Oldham, barely taking breath to claim gloom and doom under Corbyn.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 7:38 am

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

"But why the fall in turn-out. Given the so called Corbyn Phenomenon."

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hmm, I wonder if anyone can work that out.

Give him a break....he must be gutted

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 7:42 am

Lib Dems were in Pyongyang whilst the Kippers were in Harare.

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TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 7:45 am

Not racist, honest.

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yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 7:45 am

Just replying to Willow from last night:

''Some will say that's petty, but it's exactly the kind of thing that happens when someone gets promoted over more experienced colleagues - early attempts to rise above it and get on with job rapidly descend into resentment every time the "upstart", as they see the new boss, makes a decision they don't agree with. It will only fester and get worse, imo.''

But Corbyn is not an employee, he did not get his job as the result of the decision of a few senior managers or board of directors.

He was elected by thousands of members & registered supporters, with a strong mandate.

Those festering should get a grip and remember this is a party for the members and Labour supporters and voters, not just themselves and their own careers.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:18 am

Celebrating about Oldham aside for a moment, Radio 4 ran a story about the 70,000 moderates.

I was distracted by making breakfast but it seemed to be that some military sources had been dubious about the 70,000 figure, but that No 10 are claiming that no one told them, or they had not heard it. If anyone has more accurate links on it I'm sure you'll post it.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:24 am

Just posting this for RebeccaRiots, in case she may be affected.
A Pembrokeshire woodburner fitter admitted faulty, potentially dangerous work.

'Now people who had wood or coal burning stoves installed by Poole from Johnston, who traded as SM Poole, are being urged to avoid using them and to get them checked as soon as possible, as they could be “unsafe”.'
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... s-10545965" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:25 am

This has to be a contender for a Groan Award

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... byelection" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

His victory in the early hours of Friday morning was viewed by many present as a triumph in spite of Corbyn than because of him

That's one of the better bits

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:27 am

I saw something about the 70,000 on the news stand at the station. The Sun?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:27 am

yahyah wrote:Just replying to Willow from last night:

''Some will say that's petty, but it's exactly the kind of thing that happens when someone gets promoted over more experienced colleagues - early attempts to rise above it and get on with job rapidly descend into resentment every time the "upstart", as they see the new boss, makes a decision they don't agree with. It will only fester and get worse, imo.''
But Corbyn is not an employee, he did not get his job as the result of the decision of a few senior managers or board of directors.

He was elected by thousands of members & registered supporters, with a strong mandate.

Those festering should get a grip and remember this is a party for the members and Labour supporters and voters, not just themselves and their own careers.

I'm not particularly trying to defend Benn, just pointing out some of the human foibles we all have and wondering if they explain Benn's behaviour over the vote rather than some darker conspiracy to take over as leader.
I'm just a bit fed up with the way Labour supporters are attacking Labour MPs as if they're all Machiavellian monsters rather than just regular people with a different point of view. The request from France to help was hard to ignore. I don't think it makes you a bad person if you respond to that.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:29 am

MoD disowns PM’s ‘dodgy dossier’ claiming 70,000 Anti-ISIS troops ready to fight

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... roops.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:30 am

yahyah wrote:Celebrating about Oldham aside for a moment, Radio 4 ran a story about the 70,000 moderates.

I was distracted by making breakfast but it seemed to be that some military sources had been dubious about the 70,000 figure, but that No 10 are claiming that no one told them, or they had not heard it. If anyone has more accurate links on it I'm sure you'll post it.

Here it is yahyah

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Mr Cameron said that he had been given the 70,000 figure by the Joint Intelligence Committee, which advises on defence issues.
The committee is said to have overruled the concerns of defence officials, who warned that it could be "misleading".
Experts have since raised serious questions about the figure.
Julian Lewis, the Conservative chairman of the Commons defence select committee, compared it to the "dodgy dossier" which helped take Britain to war under Tony Blair.
Since making his original claim about 70,000 opposition fighters, Downing Street has admitted that the figure is made up of different groups of people who could take the fight to Isil.
During his first appearance in Parliament, Mr Cameron said: "We believe there are around 70,000 Syrian opposition fighters – principally the Free Syrian Army – who do not belong to extremist groups, and with whom we can co-ordinate attacks on Isil.Downing Street last night did not explicitly deny that concerns were raised about the 70,000 figure.
However, a spokesman insisted that Number 10 had not been made aware of any issues that officials may have had with the number.
A spokesman said: "The 70,000 figure was produced by the Joint Intelligence Committee, which includes in its membership officials from the Ministry of Defence.
“The Ministry of Defence did not raise concerns with No10 on whether this figure should be included in the PM’s response to the Foreign Affairs Committee.”

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:32 am

Thanks Paul & Toby, that's what I love about FTNers, ask and you shall receive.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:36 am

The Telegraph isn't even trying to be a proper newspaper anymore is it ?

Every day we get a deliberate headline linking the words Corbyn and terror or such like.
Today it is 'Corbyn 'making MPs terror targets'.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:36 am

My response to Farridge, if I may.

I'm not dreaming of a white Christmas
I'm not dreaming of a white Christmas
All I'm dreaming of the whole day long
Is a peaceful world

Merry Christmas, Happy New Year
To those of you who live in fear
And let us hope that very soon
The peace you seek will then resume

[youtube]zI4e521HMr0[/youtube]

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:37 am

Evenimorn all...

Today I am mostly a link monkey...

Mr Ethicals' had a result (well - a small victory anyway)....

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Full text of the letter here http://fscc.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/F ... -12-15.pdf

...so then, as we know, HSBC are not averse to 'shenanigans' and may be about to hit the news again

...

While much of the hearing focused on Mexico, the senators also slammed the bank for dealings in Iran, Syria, Cuba, and other countries on US sanctions lists. HSBC executives continued to so business with Al Rajhi Bank in Saudi Arabia, even after it emerged that its owners had links to organizations financing terrorism and that one of the bank's founders was an early financial benefactor of al-Qaida.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... gns-senate

...and does anyone remember ALEC? An obsession of Arseneknows in the old days at the Graun (and linked to AdamLiam WerrityFox?)...

Editor’s Note: Over the next few weeks VLTP will be publishing a series exposing the American Legislative Exchange Council’s (ALEC) involvement with advancing their conservative agenda, model legislation and resolutions worldwide. We have discovered and begun to monitor the activities of ALEC overseas as they pursue developing and sponsoring legislation they favor in foreign countries. Unfortunately these activities are a two way street, in that ALEC has numerous foreign elected officials serving as full members, who come to America, meet with U.S. state lawmakers and develop new laws they favor for America’s citizens. All this will be covered and exposed through this new series beginning today – Bob Sloan, Executive Director.

http://vltp.net/alec-pursuing-world-dominion-part-one/

http://vltp.net/alec-pursuing-universal ... -thatcher/

For instance, one Donal Blaney, who heads something called the Young Britons Foundation – and calls it “a Tory madrasa…for radicalizing young Tories” (Britons, apparently, having much less political sensitivity to such terminology than Americans) – is delightedly behind the fundraising for the Thatcher Library, and is also in cahoots with such BlaneyAmerican fundraising experts as Karl Rove and Newt Gingrich on the project

...Donal Blaney? Where've I seen that name before....oh yes...

“the fact Elliott lost his job after complaining about Clarke is not all that surprising if it’s known that not long before Elliott was sacked Clarke had visited the Chairman of CWF Donal Blaney to warn him that Elliott was a ‘risk’ to the organisation … Clarke admitted this himself in a secret recording Elliott made”.

http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2015/ ... -dock.html

...and just look at this terrorist sympathiser (did Nicky Morgan really defend Clouncys' slur on QT?...shortly before Portaloo said Clouncy should've lost the vote because of it?

)

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....and thank you Oldham

ttfn

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:39 am

Blogger Craig Murray with a good appraisal of the Oldham result:

The true story of the Oldham West by-election is a massive collapse in the Tory vote, which fell from 19.0% to 9.3%. The Tory vote share halved.

The Tory vote in Oldham West was not tiny and statistically insignificant. In 2010 it was 23%. The national media has been plugging a narrative about the political dominance of the Tories for months, which bears no relationship to people’s experience in real life. Tens of thousands of words of utter bilge have been written about the Conservatives “Northern powerhouse” strategy and how it will enable them to win in the North, and especially in precisely this Greater Manchester region. This is revealed as complete and utter nonsense. This by-election shows the Tories are deeply unpopular.

The media were also doing everything possible to talk up UKIP’s chances, in the hope of damaging Jeremy Corbyn. In fact, my own contacts in Oldham had been telling me for weeks that UKIP were struggling to hold up their percentage vote, and that proved to be the case. This leaves the Blairites of the Guardian looking particularly stupid, having produced a whole series of articles predicated on UKIP gaining ground as a protest against Corbyn.

The media’s last resort in spinning this result goes thus:
a) Do not mention at all the collapse in the Tory vote
b) Emphasise it was a personal vote for a local man, Jim McMahon
c) Portray McMahon as a Blairite

This formula is being universally followed in the state and corporate media. The difficulty with the McMahon angle is that his predecessor was a very popular long term MP, Michael Meacher, who also had a big personal vote. And McMahon declared both last week and tonight that he would have voted against bombing Syria, so no Blairite.

We are nowhere near mid term yet and already the Tory vote is collapsing. People are not nearly as stupid as the media wish them to be.

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... in-oldham/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:43 am

Morning all.

Oh dear.

Before

After

You could see that coming...

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:48 am

yahyah wrote:Just posting this for RebeccaRiots, in case she may be affected.
A Pembrokeshire woodburner fitter admitted faulty, potentially dangerous work.

'Now people who had wood or coal burning stoves installed by Poole from Johnston, who traded as SM Poole, are being urged to avoid using them and to get them checked as soon as possible, as they could be “unsafe”.'
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... s-10545965" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Morning yahyah and all.

Thank you for the alert. Mr Riots fits our wood burners ... so any lapse in safety will be down to him. But he is far more likely to have gone the other way and done more than the standard safety measures. He's certainly passionate about the kinds of flue fittings he will use and why.

What a nice treat to wake up to that Oldham result is - and so good to be able to give Mr Riots some good news in the morning (he was tucked up well before the announcement).

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:50 am

However you slice it, last night's result doesn't help the Corbyn hater position.
They will need to concede that if you have a strong Labour candidate they can win 'despite Corbyn'.
Also, if what some say is true, new members or supporters helped the Oldham campaign efforts.

'Corbyn is a disaster' moans need be put on hold now surely.

If a divided Labour can win against the nasty UKIP onslaught, what can it do if we all get behind the elected leader ?

Post by **refitman** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:52 am

Watson's Today interview seemed good, from Sparrow's write-up.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:54 am

Came home from London yesterday to headlines that Cameron was warning us that we could be in / bombing Syria for 3 years - we've got to be patient apparently (never mind the Syrians who have got to be superhuman to endure).

Well Dave - you might want to have a chat with Philip Hammond who was on Newsnight the night before telling us that it was probably at least 4 years and then some ...

But, of course, Dave or his spinners might have seen that statement by Hammond and thought ... cripes that didn't sound good, better get out there and say it's only 3 years. I wouldn't put that past him / them.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:55 am

nickyinnorfolk wrote:Blogger Craig Murray with a good appraisal of the Oldham result:

The true story of the Oldham West by-election is a massive collapse in the Tory vote, which fell from 19.0% to 9.3%. The Tory vote share halved.

Morning Nicky.

Thanks for posting that.

I had spotted the Tory vote collapse earlier and was pondering its causes and implications.

What was noticeable is Radio 4 seemed to ignore it, more busy giving Farage time to ramble about
non-English speakers and fraud.

If the Oldham election was, as the media frenzy wanted us to believe, a vote about a leader, what does it say about Cameron ?

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:56 am

So is the share up or down ?

The party's vote share actually rose to 62.1 per cent from 54.8 per cent

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk ... 0-majority" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 8:59 am

Is Rusty David Blunkett ? We should be told

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 9:00 am

Ha! This is superb. Professional idiot Toby Young put a bet on UKIP winning Oldham. He was confident enough to say he wished he'd placed the bet earlier before the odds were shortened.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 9:06 am

Andy Slaughter MP ‏@hammersmithandy 2m2 minutes ago
Glad Tory Party are waking up to the reality of just how much of a disaster their five years in charge at the Ministry of Justice were. (1)

Andy Slaughter MP ‏@hammersmithandy 1m1 minute ago
I welcome U-Turns on prisoner book ban, Saudi prison deal, criminal courts charge, secure college, etc but shameful they were signed off (2)

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 9:08 am

How much did Toady lose ? Hope it was a lot.

See you later, will be back this afternoon bearing delicious homemade chocolate brownies.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 9:14 am

Simon Danczuk pictured this morning.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 9:16 am

From this morning's Waugh Zone email:

Heidi Allen is proving just how she’s no pushover - and how that has won her few friends in the tea room. In an interview with Total Politics, the Tory MP who slammed George Osborne over his tax credits plan reveals that fellow Tories drop their head when she walks past...

Most worrying for the whips will be her line that she would feel more comfortable as an independent, rather than a Tory, MP. “When I decided to try to become an MP, you pick a team don’t you. If there were I suppose the ideal scenario that you could have a voice and you could make things happen without a team, by being an independent. Probably I’ve learnt that that would suit me better if I’m honest.”...

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 9:19 am

Crystal balls from pollster Peter Kellner (writing last month in Prospect):

But, by the same token, defeat would be terrible news for Labour’s leader. It would be an early sign of a possible meltdown in next May’s elections in London, Scotland, Wales and English local council. Labour MPs who want to depose Corbyn would have reason to start plotting with greater focus and determination than they currently display.

What, then, are the chances of an upset? One ingredient is definitely in place. There is no doubt which candidate is the main challenger: Ukip’s John Bickley. His predecessor, Francis Arbour, came second in May, with 21 per cent of the vote. Ukip’s vote is bound to go up this time. It is a two-horse race. And Bickley will hope to harness the votes of two separate protest groups—those on the Left who don’t like Corbyn, and those on the Right who wish to register their dislike of the Government, over such things as tax credits, not to mention the perennially awkward issue of immigration. To underline the point, Ukip came close capturing the neighbouring seat of Heywood and Middleton in a by-election last year.

However, Oldham West is traditionally more strongly Labour than Heywood and Middleton; it also has more ethnic minority voters who are less likely to vote Ukip. But, for those very reasons, a Ukip victory this time would be particularly spectacular, and hence dangerous for Corbyn.

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/blogs ... y-election" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 9:22 am

yahyah wrote:However you slice it, last night's result doesn't help the Corbyn hater position.
They will need to concede that if you have a strong Labour candidate they can win 'despite Corbyn'.
Also, if what some say is true, new members or supporters helped the Oldham campaign efforts.

'Corbyn is a disaster' moans need be put on hold now surely.

If a divided Labour can win against the nasty UKIP onslaught, what can it do if we all get behind the elected leader ?

I think the result reveals exactly what we have always known, but parties repeatedly ignore - voters prefer local candidates. The local party did a good job picking the right candidate. It also shows the importance of doing well in local elections and how important local councillors and the work they do is in building up support for the party. And finally, Corbyn seems to have been in no way a negative, nor have the splits and disagreements. I think that's quite important as it suggests a lot of assumptions about why people vote the way they do are wrong. Many here have pointed out that if and when the Tories lose their popularity, Labour needs to be ready with something different. Does the collapse in Tory support in Oldham have any connection to the solid Labour result? Food for thought.

rustinpeace · Post by **rustinpeace** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 9:24 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Oh dear.

Before

After

You could see that coming...

Aww, it’s my most dedicated Twitter follower again. How sweet.

It did have the potential to be Labour’s worst day since the day before. As it was, half of the Shadow Cabinet, the Chief Whip and the Deputy Leader voting against Corbyn will probably prove to be the low point of Labour’s week. Well, that and the police investigation in to threats made against your own MPs, obviously.

I had bet £10 on UKIP winning the seat, which I unfortunately lost. I’d been on a good run of political bets this year, with Victoria Borwick replacing Rifkind in Kensington (16/1) and of course the Glorious Tory Majority being my most lucrative wins thus far. I believe Toby had £25 on this one. Oh well, you win some you lose some.

You did all stay up to await the result of a safe seat in a by election, noted the reduced majority and then cheered the ‘great result’. So the second tweet is accurate as well. Presumably this will be the beginning of the great ‘Corbyn bounce’ we’ve all been promised. Can’t wait.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 9:28 am

TobyLatimer wrote:So is the share up or down ?

The party's vote share actually rose to 62.1 per cent from 54.8 per cent

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk ... 0-majority" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ScreenShot01189.jpg

ScreenShot01191.jpg

I don't remember the vote share being mentioned in the Guardian. I wonder why....

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 9:31 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:From this morning's Waugh Zone email:

Heidi Allen is proving just how she’s no pushover - and how that has won her few friends in the tea room. In an interview with Total Politics, the Tory MP who slammed George Osborne over his tax credits plan reveals that fellow Tories drop their head when she walks past...

Most worrying for the whips will be her line that she would feel more comfortable as an independent, rather than a Tory, MP. “When I decided to try to become an MP, you pick a team don’t you. If there were I suppose the ideal scenario that you could have a voice and you could make things happen without a team, by being an independent. Probably I’ve learnt that that would suit me better if I’m honest.”...

Heidi Allen seems a decent sort. I read that, after her speech about tax credits, she got outright hostility from her fellow Tory MPs - one reason given was that they'd been subsequently embarrassed by constituents asking why they hadn't spoken up re TCs. She got 'sent to Coventry', which does rather give the impression that the HOC resembles a spite ridden public school (on one side at any rate).

I hope she is brave enough to become an independent. The Northern Ireland MP Sylvia Harmon also took that difficult decision (breaking away from the UUP).

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 9:37 am

Just in addition to my comment above, I want to clarify that I'm not saying I don't believe there are any Machiavellian plotters in Labour. There surely are. I just feel that those like Benn, who gave Corbyn a go and accepted a shadow cabinet role, maybe deserve some benefit of the doubt. I actually feel, in order to appeal to the widest number of voters, some disagreement on the Syria issue won't do Labour any harm. It's on the approach to the economy that Labour need a clear, united message. Any dissension there, undermines Labour's ability to present a coherent message to the electorate. If Benn is comfortable endorsing an anti-austerity message, I feel his presence in the shadow cabinet team remains more positive than negative.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 9:38 am

Good morfternoon.

Great result.

When I next cast a postal vote I'll try to remember to affix a "Please Do Not Bend" sticker to the envelope so as not to cause Nigel Farage any further anguish.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 9:44 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:MoD disowns PM’s ‘dodgy dossier’ claiming 70,000 Anti-ISIS troops ready to fight

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... roops.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can just imagine Cameron saying, 'What's a nice round figure? Oh I know - 70,000'.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 9:44 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Great result.

When I next cast a postal vote I'll try to remember to affix a "Please Do Not Bend" sticker to the envelope so as not to cause Nigel Farage any further anguish.

If Labour really were the only party abusing the postal vote system, as Farage seems to suggest, I rather doubt current government would be sitting back and doing nothing about it. I'm not convinced postal votes are fraud free, however, and do wonder if they should be so freely available. Pathetic whine from Ukip, nonetheless. They were beaten at the poll booths as well.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 9:52 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Oh dear.

Before

After

You could see that coming...

The bile runneth over.

rustinpeace · Post by **rustinpeace** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 10:03 am

ohsocynical wrote: The bile runneth over.

Oh come on now, settle down. There is no 'bile', it's all in good humour. I suppose I shouldn't begrudge you Labourites the first opportunity you've had to crow for the last seven months. It's Friday and the sun is out; smile and enjoy yourselves!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 10:04 am

Willow904 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Great result.

When I next cast a postal vote I'll try to remember to affix a "Please Do Not Bend" sticker to the envelope so as not to cause Nigel Farage any further anguish.
If Labour really were the only party abusing the postal vote system, as Farage seems to suggest, I rather doubt current government would be sitting back and doing nothing about it. I'm not convinced postal votes are fraud free, however, and do wonder if they should be so freely available. Pathetic whine from Ukip, nonetheless. They were beaten at the poll booths as well.

Agree totally. I'm not in favour of the blanket availability of postal votes - but Nigel Farage is making himself look (more) ridiculous.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 10:13 am

So there we have it. UKIP has finally given up all pretence of running on a exit Europe ticket, and have shown their true agenda. Racism.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 10:15 am

rustinpeace wrote:
ohsocynical wrote: The bile runneth over.
Oh come on now, settle down. There is no 'bile', it's all in good humour. I suppose I shouldn't begrudge you Labourites the first opportunity you've had to crow for the last seven months. It's Friday and the sun is out; smile and enjoy yourselves!

I bet there's been a run on heartburn tablets at no 10 this morning.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 10:26 am

If they had a heart.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 10:31 am

John McTernan, in a specious article in the Telegraph entitled "Winning the Oldham by-election isn't a triumph for Corbyn. It's the minimum", has opined that the formula for a Labour win is "a Blairite candidate, a Blairite speech on security in the Commons (I assume he means Benn's) and total censorship of the leader".

I thought Jim McMahon won because he is a popular local politician, not because he's a Blairite (is he a Blairite?).

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 10:38 am

ephemerid wrote:John McTernan, in a specious article in the Telegraph entitled "Winning the Oldham by-election isn't a triumph for Corbyn. It's the minimum", has opined that the formula for a Labour win is "a Blairite candidate, a Blairite speech on security in the Commons (I assume he means Benn's) and total censorship of the leader".

I thought Jim McMahon won because he is a popular local politician, not because he's a Blairite (is he a Blairite?).

That's the line they're going to push. Within seconds of the win being posted on Twitter someone said it. I congratulated them on being the first put down.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 10:41 am

yahyah wrote:If a divided Labour can win against the nasty UKIP onslaught, what can it do if we all get behind the elected leader ?

Think how much nicer this country would already be if we'd done that over the last few years and had won in May.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 10:42 am

Corbyn -negligible effect either way,not contentious surely ?I am with Paul Mason on this.I must say,most of the "journalists" coverage had been appalling,"Northerners can think for themselves" earthshatteringly inconvenient for the preferred narrative.