Wednesday 9th December 2015

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 2:54 am

Morning

Reposting this from late last night.

Parliamentary Review into ESA.

https://www.mencap.org.uk/get-involved/ ... review-esa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... -wont-work" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 5:04 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35043987" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Care sector 'at risk despite promises of more money'

NB Contrary to myth,not helped by the article,help in your own home,disregards the value of your home.Most people pay towards but it is certainly not exclusively based on income either,each Council arranges such things according to guidance we didn't pay,as "support for carers and no income from employment was in anyway considered".May seem a bit pedantic,but the careless -only the poor get it free annoys me.In fact a few years.ago. here all got it free.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 8:06 am

Morning.

Radio 4 are pushing the 2010 letter to Feldman, and the Indie link keeps Shapps in the spotlight.

Tory bullying scandal: Grant Shapps 'pledged top job to Mark Clarke in return for allegiance'
Exclusive: Ex-minister sought backing for party leadership and was ‘Mark Clarke’s meal ticket’
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 65631.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

&

''David Cameron accused of being dishonest over links with 'Conservative madrasa' ''
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; edited to add: This link is from 2010, and well worth a read. I've quoted from it below.

Not sure if the Indie wants us to read between the lines of their piece.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 8:14 am

Not often one wants to quote convicted liar Chris Huhne, but this is one of them.

"The YBF's tentacles reach deep into the shadow cabinet and show the influence of the extreme anti-NHS, pro-torture, neocon wing of the party," said Chris Huhne, the Liberal Democrats' home affairs spokesman. "If Cameron claims not to know who they are he is being completely dishonest."

Huhne said .... "co-ordinated, expensively funded and probably illegal smear operation with links right to the top of the Conservative party"

edited to add....the Huhne quotes are from 2010. Yet he and his party still crawled into bed with the Tories.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 8:26 am

@yahyah Huhne isn't around anymore ? Alistair Carmichael appointed home affairs spokesman for Lib Dems https://commonspace.scot/articles/2012/ ... hgate-saga" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 8:34 am

I'm still half asleep Toby !
Someone somewhere had linked the Guardian piece that the Huhne quote comes from, it is early 2010.

It shows that even then the tactics of the YBF were known, and reported in the Guardian.

Let's hope the sort of tactics Huhne describes weren't used to help push Lib Dems MPs into agreeing to go into Coalition with the Tories. The Libs have a reputation for sexual sleaze, wouldn't be hard to imagine a bit of honey pot trapping catching more than a few of them.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 8:36 am

Not sure Alastair Carmichael will be around much longer, if the SNP get their way in court.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 8:37 am

He hasn't been a columnist for the Guardian for a while either.

I reckon our guys scared him off.

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yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 8:46 am

'just shuffle off into a corner and die that would be lovely'

Techical Ephemera's last sentence might well be the sort of thing pro-bombing Labour MPs would describe as a death threat, if it were addressed to them on social media by a Momentum or STW member

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 8:47 am

OGRPPFGTCC has lied for years about the YBF - he knows all about it, has supported it, and only denied all knowledge of it when it looked like he was going to be Prime Minister.
As usual, he is distancing himself from rogue elements in his party, and is doing whatever is necessary to ensure that nothing sticks to him - he has form in that respect, and will happily sacrifice colleagues as long as he gets to keep his position at the top.

The point is that these are not "rogue elements" - they are mainstream Tories now and Tory leaders of the future. Frightening.

The Tories have used their young supporters to bolster their image for a long time. They don't give a shit about them, as long as they are sitting in rows behind speakers at conference to give the impression that the Conservative Party has the support of young people as well as the old fogeys who actually vote for them.
I think it was the 2014 conference when Shapps delivered a speech in front of a phalanx of young people all wearing Union Jack t-shirts - they might as well have been wearing brown shirts - it was a chilling image. The audience was predominantly people with grey hair.....

I think the Tory heirarchy knew about all this. Feldman, Shapps, Cameron, all of them. They simply didn't and don't care.

danesclose · Post by **danesclose** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 8:54 am

Good morning,
In response to Donald Trump's proposal to prevent all Muslims entering the USA, the Democratic mayor of St Petersburg, Florida, Rick Kriseman, sent a tweet:
“I am hereby barring Donald Trump from entering St. Petersburg until we fully understand the dangerous threat posed by all Trumps,”

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 8:56 am

yahyah wrote:'just shuffle off into a corner and die that would be lovely'

Techical Ephemera's last sentence might well be the sort of thing pro-bombing Labour MPs would describe as a death threat, if it were addressed to them on social media by a Momentum or STW member

No doubt they would, though in the original context I presume it was aimed at the party as an entity rather than any individual person. Quite prophetic really, since May they are really non existent

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 9:00 am

But TE actually starts his post addressing Chris Huhne....so he has personalised it to a large extent.
He wrote 'I hate you' just after addressing Huhne by name.

Just pointing out that offence may be taken by such posts, with use of words like hate & die, and that they don't all come from Corbynistas or hard leftists.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 9:03 am

He's back again.

In defence of Blairism, by Tony Blair. He would say that wouldn't he.

http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/1 ... ony-blair/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Post by **refitman** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 9:07 am

TobyLatimer wrote:He's back again.

In defence of Blairism, by Tony Blair. He would say that wouldn't he.

http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/1 ... ony-blair/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ScreenShot01242.jpg

Yup. Sparrows blog:

Blair says Labour's 'tragedy' is that Corbyn has turned it into 'fringe protest movement'

*sigh* the comments are going to be fun today

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 9:09 am

Andrew's blog is about Blair saying Corbyn's turned Labour into a fringe protest movement.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... itics-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 9:13 am

Morning all.

Quote from Tony Blair piece reported on by Andrew Sparrow ...

He says “modernisers” are “the true progressives”.
Many – especially in today’s Labour Party – felt we lost our way in Government. I feel we found it. But I accept in the process we failed to convince enough people that the true progressives are always the modernisers, not because they discard principle but because they have the courage to adhere to it when confronted with reality.

I really don't know where to start - but - perhaps with what the hell does that last bit mean 'because they have the courage to adhere to it when confronted with reality.' What principle is it they are adhering to .... be in government at all costs? Sorry - in my head I'm trying to relate that remark to the 'reality' of Iraq - and I can't.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 9:15 am

Thankfully its not going to be too wet and we've got to clear the gutters and get moss off the flat roof.
A day away from the net will be a good thing particularly if it's wall-to-wall anti-Blair bile, and picking over his utterances that provoked it.

I disagreed with a lot of what Blair was responsible for, but never felt he sold Labour a pup, he never pretended to be what he wasn't on the political spectrum.
We knew what his agenda was, and he asked people to vote for it, which they did and returned three Labour governments.

Putting the awful mess of Iraq aside, just imagine what Britain would be like if we'd not had those three Labour terms.

All the hating, even if he deserves some of it, does it really help ?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 9:16 am

refitman wrote:
TobyLatimer wrote:He's back again.

In defence of Blairism, by Tony Blair. He would say that wouldn't he.

http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/1 ... ony-blair/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ScreenShot01242.jpg
Yup. Sparrows blog:
Blair says Labour's 'tragedy' is that Corbyn has turned it into 'fringe protest movement'
*sigh* the comments are going to be fun today

Well - the converse of that is, I suppose, that under Blair the party was turned into a machine that operated ever more distantly from the members and communities they are part of. Some balance and connection certainly needs to be restored.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 9:16 am

I didn't read it like that at all, for what it's worth I hated them for much of what they enabled & supported too. I try and let go of hate a bit nowadays, self consuming negativity which ultimately eats away at the hater, rather difficult with the likes of IDS still on the prowl though.

BTW Here's the original article. Huhne wrote an column claiming that coalitions were here to stay. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... arliaments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 9:20 am

danesclose wrote:Good morning,
In response to Donald Trump's proposal to prevent all Muslims entering the USA, the Democratic mayor of St Petersburg, Florida, Rick Kriseman, sent a tweet:

<b>I am hereby barring Donald Trump from entering St. Petersburg until we fully understand the dangerous threat posed by all Trumps,” </b>

I signed this one mostly for fun, 52k since yesterday afternoon, but it also sends a message to the GOP .

Imagining the reception if he ever came, that would be more fun !

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/114003" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

<b> Block Donald J Trump from UK entry </b>

54k now .

bifn!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 9:30 am

Edu Select Committee meeting this morning discussing teacher supply - presumably Gibb's message will be "nothing to see here. Move along now. Nothing to do with us. No problem"

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Inde ... 105bac1e75" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gibb goes on his own at the end - that'll be interesting...

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 9:46 am

Morning all.

Nice of Blair to hand ammunition to Osborne for PMQs. Is Corbyn asking the questions btw?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 9:48 am

Good morfternoon.

PMQs today is Angela Eagle and George Osborne, according to Politics Live (Guardian).

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 9:52 am

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Nice of Blair to hand ammunition to Osborne for PMQs. Is Corbyn asking the questions btw?

Whoops!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 9:53 am

Crisis? What crisis? asks a tame Tory MP...do they get briefed beforehand as to the line they should push I wonder?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 10:27 am

25s ago10:25

The Herald is reporting that Alistair Carmichael has been cleared. (Politics Live, Guardian)

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 10:43 am

That is interesting, given that the SNP's state propaganda journal was sure this morning that he would be found guilty.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 11:01 am

Yep, all of that.

Plus today's contribution was again - save for the obligatory anti-Jez soundbite - empty fluff, confirming Blairism is now an exhausted husk with nothing to currently offer.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 11:07 am

yahyah wrote:Andrew's blog is about Blair saying Corbyn's turned Labour into a fringe protest movement.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... itics-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My, what a shock, Andrew Sparrow blowing up something of supreme irrelevance into the major news story of the day! As I have posted elsewhere, not even the Blairites give a monkeys what Tony says these days.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 11:11 am

Anyway, how are the CyberNats taking the Carmichael verdict?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 11:13 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Yep, all of that.

Plus today's contribution was again - save for the obligatory anti-Jez soundbite - empty fluff, confirming Blairism is now an exhausted husk with nothing to currently offer.

I never know what it is he's trying to say (other than how right he is\was about almost everything) - he never comes up with concrete suggestions for what he thinks the Labour Party should do (in terms of policy rather than in internal machinations). I think he's spent too much time with Peter Mandelson. Tony Blair's ruminations are more suited to a book than to day-to-day politics and the sooner his name appears only in the literary columns and not the "news" the better.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 11:43 am

What, like stopping talking about "council-run schools" and enthusing about academies and free schools all the time?

I can only agree but we won't see that from you will we?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 12:11 pm

ephemerid wrote:OGRPPFGTCC has lied for years about the YBF - he knows all about it, has supported it, and only denied all knowledge of it when it looked like he was going to be Prime Minister.
As usual, he is distancing himself from rogue elements in his party, and is doing whatever is necessary to ensure that nothing sticks to him - he has form in that respect, and will happily sacrifice colleagues as long as he gets to keep his position at the top.

The point is that these are not "rogue elements" - they are mainstream Tories now and Tory leaders of the future. Frightening.

The Tories have used their young supporters to bolster their image for a long time. They don't give a shit about them, as long as they are sitting in rows behind speakers at conference to give the impression that the Conservative Party has the support of young people as well as the old fogeys who actually vote for them.
I think it was the 2014 conference when Shapps delivered a speech in front of a phalanx of young people all wearing Union Jack t-shirts - they might as well have been wearing brown shirts - it was a chilling image. The audience was predominantly people with grey hair.....

I think the Tory heirarchy knew about all this. Feldman, Shapps, Cameron, all of them. They simply didn't and don't care.

Power at any cost, whatever the cost about sums them up....

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 12:26 pm

Just the title on its own...oh my aching sides.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 12:38 pm

Angela Eagle made a good job of pmqs, would make a good leader one day.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 12:40 pm

What a unique PMQs, George was actually able to focus (even if he appeared to be talking through his arse).

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 12:42 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Angela Eagle made a good job of pmqs, would make a good leader one day.

I think her time has passed as far as that is concerned (though I do quite like her)

Don't suppose she slipped in an Enver Hoxha quote today, I imagine? Shame

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 12:58 pm

The odious Fergus Wilson and his hideous wife have sold off their property empire.

Apparently, more than 1,000 homes have been sold for £250 Million to "a foreign consortium".

Having profited from BTL tax breaks and mortgages, Housing Benefit (until they evicted claimants on the grounds that Polish plumbers were more likely to pay their rent on time than single mothers) and taken more than a thousand homes off the market for first-time buyers to bid for, they are now flogging it all off to property speculators from abroad who will profit from it and more cash will bleed out of the UK economy.

Shameful.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 1:06 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
TobyLatimer wrote:Angela Eagle made a good job of pmqs, would make a good leader one day.
I think her time has passed as far as that is concerned (though I do quite like her)

Don't suppose she slipped in an Enver Hoxha quote today, I imagine? Shame

Who said it: Jeremy Corbyn or Enver Hoxha?
After the Labour leader quoted the "tough" Albanian communist dictator, try our quiz to see if you can tell their rhetoric apart

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... Hoxha.html

Edited to try to make link work

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 1:19 pm

Wonder if the Telegraph will tell us how Hoxha's crimes rank when set beside the object of Thatcher's crush General Pinochet ?

Corbyn told a joke at a party, Thatcher took tea with her mass murderer pal.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 1:20 pm

danesclose wrote:Good morning,
In response to Donald Trump's proposal to prevent all Muslims entering the USA, the Democratic mayor of St Petersburg, Florida, Rick Kriseman, sent a tweet:
“I am hereby barring Donald Trump from entering St. Petersburg until we fully understand the dangerous threat posed by all Trumps,”

134,098 when I signed a few moments ago.

I don't sign petitions lightly, but Trump is a nasty, objectionable man. I hope the petition gets lots of publicity in the US.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 1:23 pm

yahyah wrote:Thankfully its not going to be too wet and we've got to clear the gutters and get moss off the flat roof.
A day away from the net will be a good thing particularly if it's wall-to-wall anti-Blair bile, and picking over his utterances that provoked it.

I disagreed with a lot of what Blair was responsible for, but never felt he sold Labour a pup, he never pretended to be what he wasn't on the political spectrum.
We knew what his agenda was, and he asked people to vote for it, which they did and returned three Labour governments.

Putting the awful mess of Iraq aside, just imagine what Britain would be like if we'd not had those three Labour terms.

All the hating, even if he deserves some of it, does it really help ?

I just wish he'd realise his time is past and he'd pipe down...He's not helping.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 1:37 pm

Opponents of Charmichael can legally call him a liar.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 1:42 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning all.

Quote from Tony Blair piece reported on by Andrew Sparrow ...

He says “modernisers” are “the true progressives”.
Many – especially in today’s Labour Party – felt we lost our way in Government. I feel we found it. But I accept in the process we failed to convince enough people that the true progressives are always the modernisers, not because they discard principle but because they have the courage to adhere to it when confronted with reality.
I really don't know where to start - but - perhaps with what the hell does that last bit mean 'because they have the courage to adhere to it when confronted with reality.' What principle is it they are adhering to .... be in government at all costs? Sorry - in my head I'm trying to relate that remark to the 'reality' of Iraq - and I can't.

Doesn't that describe the govt we have now? Adhering to their ideology, I can't say principles, when confronted with reality.

Hard to choose between Blair and Cameron for blather.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 2:04 pm

Andrew Sparrow's verdict on Osborne's performance AT PMQs

"It served as a reminder that doing PMQs is actually much harder than it looks and that David Cameron, who has now had 10 years’ practice, is a hard act to follow"

A hard act to follow ? i can't work out if this is praise for Cameron or facetious ridicule at Osborne

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 2:08 pm

@TobyLatimer

I agree with you that Angela Eagle would make a good leader - and I don't think her time has passed.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 2:08 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Andrew Sparrow's verdict on Osborne's performance AT PMQs

"It served as a reminder that doing PMQs is actually much harder than it looks and that David Cameron, who has now had 10 years’ practice, is a hard act to follow"

A hard act to follow ? i can't work out if this is praise for Cameron or facetious ridicule at Osborne

I see the commentariat are wetting themselves over the fact that "knockabout" PMQs is back.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 2:10 pm

TobyLatimer wrote:Andrew Sparrow's verdict on Osborne's performance AT PMQs

"It served as a reminder that doing PMQs is actually much harder than it looks and that David Cameron, who has now had 10 years’ practice, is a hard act to follow"

A hard act to follow ? i can't work out if this is praise for Cameron or facetious ridicule at Osborne

I think, overall, Andrew Sparrow was heading into glossy and unbending territory in his summing up of today's PMQs.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Wed 09 Dec, 2015 2:14 pm

PorFavor wrote:@TobyLatimer

I agree with you that Angela Eagle would make a good leader - and I don't think her time has passed.

Plenty of life in her yet - she's only 54, even younger than me

(which isn't too difficult as it seems like everyone is nowadays) Conversely - Corbyn who was elected after 30 odd years back benching will be 71 at the next election ...