Friday 18th December 2015

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 6:31 am

From the BBC

The prime minister added: "In terms of welfare, no, I haven't put any other proposals on the table - I have put my four-year proposal on the table and it remains on the table. The commission said that they believed there were solutions - not compromises, solutions. I am confident after tonight that we can find solutions."

Mr Tusk said Mr Cameron set out his position, especially on benefits and free movement. He added that leaders voiced concern but were willing to look for compromises. "Building on this positive debate we agreed to work together to find solutions in all four baskets raised by Prime Minister Cameron," he said.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said: "I am optimistic because we all want a compromise. But work on substance needs to be done. Treaty change might be possible. Not now but perhaps later."

French President Francois Hollande said there could be adjustments over Mr Cameron's demands but EU rules and principles must be respected.

My emphasis.

Good Morning

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 8:17 am

Good morning.
People are funny,they know you are doing nine twelve hour night shifts in a row playing a small part in ensuring nine million pies are in the supermarkets for Christmas and 'phone you at dinner time asking if they woke you.Having a whale of a time with a group of Slovakians,one a giant of a man,Maria,wears a hard hat,which isn't necessary but takes great delight in headbutting things and sings all the time.Five to go.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 8:20 am

HindleA wrote:Good morning.
People are funny,they know you are doing nine twelve hour night shifts in a row playing a small part in ensuring nine million pies are in the supermarkets for Christmas and 'phone you at dinner time asking if they woke you.Having a whale of a time with a group of Slovakians,one a giant of a man,Maria,wears a hard hat,which isn't necessary but takes great delight in headbutting things and sings all the time.Five to go.

Love ya HindleA. How many pork pies down are you now? Just a couple of million to go?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 8:25 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:From the BBC
The prime minister added: "In terms of welfare, no, I haven't put any other proposals on the table - I have put my four-year proposal on the table and it remains on the table. The commission said that they believed there were solutions - not compromises, solutions. I am confident after tonight that we can find solutions."

Mr Tusk said Mr Cameron set out his position, especially on benefits and free movement. He added that leaders voiced concern but were willing to look for compromises. "Building on this positive debate we agreed to work together to find solutions in all four baskets raised by Prime Minister Cameron," he said.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said: "I am optimistic because we all want a compromise. But work on substance needs to be done. Treaty change might be possible. Not now but perhaps later."

French President Francois Hollande said there could be adjustments over Mr Cameron's demands but EU rules and principles must be respected.
My emphasis.

Good Morning

Compromise? Paul this will be an absolute 'triumph' for Cameron. That's already decided and the whole of the QT panel and the This Week couch list were in smirking agreement that he will come away from this 'renegotiation' bathed in glory regardless of whatever puny tidbits he gets thrown.

It's completely and utterly brazen emperorer's clothes isn't it. Everyone knows. Embarrassing.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 8:30 am

BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 17m17 minutes ago
Sports Direct to review all agency worker terms and conditions after criticism, board says http://bbc.in/1RsKsB9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They need to do more than review.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 8:39 am

john spellar ‏@spellar 1h1 hour ago
Carswell ruins Farage Christmas with call for UKIP Leader to go http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35121684" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 8:45 am

Just reading about the meetings Osborne had with Murdoch.

There are so many questions one might ask about what sort of leverage may be involved in getting the Tories to wallop the BBC or be helpful with BSkyb deals. Not that they need much persuasion.

Convicted hacking criminal Coulson, earlier in his career, helped save Osborne's bacon after the cocaine, bondage & hooker story, by giving him favourable editorial support.

For a paper where hacking and 'dark arts' were used, it seems odd that Coulson would not use said dark arts to further entrap Osborne as had happened to other victims of hacking, honey traps & surveillance etc, thereby getting an even bigger story or....if you have a fertile imagination...leverage.

There were allegations made during the hacking trials of unpublished stories on people being kept, unused.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 8:47 am

Carswell's vision

He laid out his own vision for Ukip, claiming it could up its 13 per cent share in the polls by becoming an “optimistic, sunshine, smiley, socially liberal, unapologetically free market party”

Good luck with that then.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 77831.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

: ScreenShot01318.jpg (81.72 KiB) Viewed 10321 times

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 8:50 am

The last time he made an effort to get someone removed paid off.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... s-expenses" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

: ScreenShot01320.jpg (117.43 KiB) Viewed 10317 times

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 8:54 am

''optimistic, sunshine, smiley, socially liberal''

Why not just start a new party, it'd be a lot easier

?
Remember all those tweeted pics of the miserable looking men (few women) at UKIP meetings.
They would get even more grumpy if invited to hug-a-gay person or to smile.

Also, not sure many Kippers are that free market.
Heard a lot of them on vox pops opposing privatising the NHS.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 9:05 am

Hope we get a repeat of this fiasco.

: ScreenShot01321.jpg (71.94 KiB) Viewed 10303 times

: ScreenShot01322.jpg (99.01 KiB) Viewed 10303 times

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 9:11 am

With any luck the Daily Male Online cartoonist will treat us to a depiction of his Daily Male reacting to Carswell's notion that Kippers should be ''optimistic, sunshine, smiley, socially liberal''.

If you see it Toby, please post it.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 9:13 am

Will do

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 9:15 am

@RR2 We are in the third day of six of non stop ,the final day is an extra just in case and of course an incentive to be quick as possible as we get paid anyway as long as we clock in no matter how many hours we actually do.I have already "banked" about twenty hours last week,ie counts as per contract,not actually "worked" as long as you do everyday day you will get paid it.It is only minimum wage job,but the management gets stuck in with the same tasks as you ,if necessary.The time goes amazingly quickly when you are full pace and as it in literally freezing temperature better if you are.There is conveyer belt contraption that passes under a laser date thing for some items,if the date is not satisfactorically in the panel,it doesn't pass,hence,twelve boxes of Waitrose pies in freezer.I'd imagine they will leave this until towards the end.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 9:18 am

Sports Direct: Mike Ashley to oversee review of agency staff's conditions
Founder of sportswear chain will personally head initiative after Guardian investigation revealed some staff are effectively paid less than minimum wage
http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... conditions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He's the very last person that should be overseeing this 'review'. Has the board of Sports Direct got any sensible people on it? Does it have any teeth or scruples?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 9:18 am

yahyah wrote:''optimistic, sunshine, smiley, socially liberal''

Why not just start a new party, it'd be a lot easier ?
Remember all those tweeted pics of the miserable looking men (few women) at UKIP meetings.
They would get even more grumpy if invited to hug-a-gay person or to smile.

Also, not sure many Kippers are that free market.
Heard a lot of them on vox pops opposing privatising the NHS.

There are a lot of differences economically between the membership and what the leadership believes (which is not always the same as what they say). But they're not really there for that anyway so it's not really come up as an issue.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 9:20 am

Conor Pope ‏@Conorpope 23m23 minutes ago
Poor Douglas Carswell, who somehow did not realise he was joining an anti-immigration party run by Nigel Farage.

Conor Pope ‏@Conorpope 13m13 minutes ago
In fairness to Carswell, there were literally no signs that UKIP was an anti-immigration party run by Nigel Farage

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 9:25 am

Maybe the Kippers could borrow this sunshiney cover for the next manifesto

: 2010-manifesto-2015-manifesto-main.jpg (41.12 KiB) Viewed 10277 times

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 9:36 am

Good Morning.

I am still here but have had very little to say, unlike a certain LadyC who I was shocked to hear of. Apart from her generosity and good humour I miss the early morning exchanges that sometimes ensued. Anyway without further ado Seasons Greetings to one and all, but note that even this is mistakenly derided in some quarters.

A general chunter about corporate customer service before I get to my point... Over the years I've had several black marks against my name for mobile phone or broadband contracts and the like due to overruns as I see it. It hasn't particularly caused me problems since I was already treated a pariah due to debts my late wife had run up, nevertheless such black marks are an annoyance and I can get extremely angry with those that chase them up. But why shouldn't I since they're generally Tory friendly businesses that profit by speculation and legal technicalities rather than creating something of use or offering a service.

Perhaps I should explain where I'm coming from. Now these, usually 12, 18 or 24 month, contracts include handsets or modems, which are priced into the monthly direct debits for their term after which I just continue at the same or sometimes higher rates without ever receiving further equipment. When or should I wish to then move to another supplier, sometimes to a new address, and terminate such arrangement they insist on another month's notice in writing. So be it then I allow further direct debits exceeding said month.

Some time later a collection agency comes after me chasing up an inflated outstanding account from said supplier; it is these that usually get my ire. I explain my not owing any such amount and my firm refusal to pay. They often advise I get in touch with said corporation but again I refuse suggesting that it is their problem and that the onus lies with them and should I have further dealings with them that I shall bill them at a nominal rate of £40 an hour plus any additional legal or other expenses. Such mail generally ceases only for another company to similarly chase it up a year or so later. In the meantime said corporates, the instigators of such charges personally write to me offering new contracts.

'And now to my point, one I was reminded of by the bill reversals shown from NPower on BBC Breakfast this morning. I have previously mentioned my spot of bother with HMRC after I'd failed to submit my tax returns when my late wife was laying paralysed after her brain haemorrhage. As I've said before in practice it was a failure to claim rebates since I was on emergency code for my greater PAYE income to cover tax due on the lesser freelance earnings.The long and short of it was that after years of dispute they finally stated that there could be no reversal after such time and chased me for £13 grand, even sending someone round but still I refused to pay and although I never threw any away just stopped opening their mail. Blimey this is going on longer than I expected, anyway during a sort out I recently opened such mail and true to form the demands kept coming until, similar to the NPower bill reversals albeit not on a single date, there were several reductions. 'And so they continued on further such mailings until I eventually owed them nothing at all. Of course I am mightily relieved and wish I had opened such post much earlier but now I find that due to taxable income of last tax year I now owe them a disputed few hundred.

Yes I had income, my cashed in pension for which I was heavily penalised with tax, but can I phone anyone about it or call at a local office? No I fucking can't, Mr. Osborne, and neither should I have to waste my time. In the meantime I see that you would rather they have direct access to my bank account and take what is not their due. 'And don't let me get started on how you treat your corporate friends or indeed that we have an acting Prime Minister whose family made their fortune using tax havens and advising on tax avoidance.

'And on a happier note, repeated Season's Greetings (just in case you're not Christian). Which reminds me...

A small addendum: I should point out that in my many dealings with the tax man, and yes even nowadays, I have received post from different offices claiming differing amounts rather than one central agency. It rather makes you wonder who by or how systems are implemented. Good luck with the digitised department You envisage, George. Speaking for myself I have a somewhat unusual name, so God knows what Smiths or Jones shall experience.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 9:38 am

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor ... m-10617589" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oxfordshire to lose £37 per household, Newcastle, £86. They really hate the north east.
Oh, and morning, folks.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 9:51 am

Morning utopiandreams. I doubt you want to hear this, but the best way to deal with HMRC is to pay up first, dispute later. They always refund mistakes..eventually. If you don't have the money to do so, the sooner you contact them the better. The last time I phoned them it took 40 minutes on hold and cost me a fiver in phone charges, so I sympathise with your frustration. It really isn't good enough, is it? Perhaps one for your MP if you really can't get through. Current government can't keep getting away with such poor management of essential services. I'm surprised the HMRC problems with phone answering is still going on after all this time. If Labour presided over such a shambles it would be all we would be hearing about day in, day out, on the news.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 9:54 am

On the subject of the ghastly Lucy Allan and her bullying.....

Whilst it's never right to harangue people the way she has done with her hapless employee, I'm not sure how sympathetic I feel.
Ms.Plumbly got her job with the MP after campaigning for her - it's partly down to her that Allan got elected.

It's a bit like that lady on QT - if you support these bastards, and ignore all the warnings that they will shit on you given the option, I'm not going to be able to feel much beyond schadenfreude. I'm aware that's not a pleasant characteristic!

The Tories are out of control on just about every level - from their "youth" wing to their ministers.

Every day, there's a new announcement on policies nobody voted for or some anti-democratic wheeze aimed at entrenching their hegemony.
All of this was predicted, and Lo! it came to pass.

What surprises me is that anyone is surprised.....

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 10:01 am

Mor(fters)ning all...

Re Lucy Allan and the 'employment' and the target of her vitriol, I'm sure I heard on the tapes something alluding to the 'employment contract', where Allan stated the 'employee' had no sickness rights and hadn't been employed for a year, so there would be no pay for the absence...so I assumed a typically Tory 'Zero Hours' style deal.

Picked this up last night....strangely, not plastered all over the UK MSM (not that I can see, anyway)...

UN Security Council unanimously adopts resolution targeting ISIS finances

http://www.sott.net/article/308737-UN-S ... IS-funding

...with this comment...

Comment: It's strange to see the US and Russia working together to fight ISIS. So we have this new resolution, on top of Kerry admitting Assad's future will be determined by the Syrian people, the US pulling 12 fighter jets from the Incirlik base in Turkey, and in a dramatic reversal of the NATO narrative on Turkey's invasion of Iraq, Vice President Biden calling on Turkey to withdraw from Iraq. It was only a month ago that Obama said Assad must go, and just a few days ago the State Dept. was dodging questions from RT about Turkish troops in Iraq. As some have put it, it's been a strange few days in US foreign policy. One has to wonder if it wasn't something Putin said during his meeting with Kerry that has led to practically a 180 degree reversal by the US in certain foreign policy decisions. Perhaps he made it abundantly clear that moving forward with the US's previous policy would mean war with Russia, and just how outmatched the US was for such a possibility.

...and this (from the original RT piece https://www.rt.com/news/326356-un-secur ... -finances/)...

The UNSC resolution comes just days after US Secretary of State John Kerry’s Tuesday visit to Moscow. Following talks, Kerry and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that Russia and the US have agreed on a number of “critical” issues, particularly with regard to Syria.

“The US stands ready to work with Russia,” Kerry told journalists.

“We see Syria fundamentally very similarly, we want the same outcomes, we see the same dangers, we understand the same challenges,” Kerry said. “Russia and the United States agree that you can’t defeat Daesh [Arabic acronym/derogatory name for IS] without also de-escalating the fight in Syria.”

There seems to be some sort of time-lag in Clouncy Funts' planning process....we (Britain) seem to have arrived very late to the party, just as everyone else is talking about packing up and going home (absolutely no-one at all, and definitely not his dog, said that this would be the outcome before the vote...nope, absolutely definitely nobody...if only there'd been a grown-up or two around to say 'why bother with the war - there's already enough destruction - why not go straight to the peace?')....with those fantabulous Brimstone missiles unused...

DAVID Cameron’s bid to destroy IS in Syria was last night questioned again after it emerged the RAF is yet to fire its key Brimstone missile.
And after three initial raids, Tornado and Typhoon pilots have not bombed any terror group targets in its heartlands for ten days.
The PM told MPs before the vote to authorise action that the fearsome Brimstone missile, unique to the RAF, was a major reason why Britain should join the assault in Syria. (Sorry - I refuse to link to Uncle Ruperts' festering organ of putrid bile...and it seems to be the only one with the 'story', so who knows whether its' true or not

(and thanks to RR2 (I think) for finding the original, also not linked)

All that bluster...all those lies....all that Labour-splitting effort...for 3 sorties?...in 2 weeks?....without using the one thing our 'allies' are supposed to have wanted us for?...oh, Clouncy....you've really outdone yourself this time

(As in, that's not really war then, is it? - I'm waiting for Mr Benns' reaction to having been so comprehensively shafted....no?...oh...)

I'm not sure how this will be spun as a positive for No 10...but I'm sure they'll find a way

However, in grown-up world, if it is true that the US and Russia are going to get their act together and start targeting funding and supply lines, that is a very good thing (IMHO).

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 10:09 am

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 22 mins22 minutes ago

A constituency poll in week before GE2015 had Farage 9% ahead in Thanet South. He lost by 6%

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -lead.html

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 10:12 am

ephemerid wrote:On the subject of the ghastly Lucy Allan and her bullying.....

Whilst it's never right to harangue people the way she has done with her hapless employee, I'm not sure how sympathetic I feel.
Ms.Plumbly got her job with the MP after campaigning for her - it's partly down to her that Allan got elected.

It's a bit like that lady on QT - if you support these bastards, and ignore all the warnings that they will shit on you given the option, I'm not going to be able to feel much beyond schadenfreude. I'm aware that's not a pleasant characteristic!

The Tories are out of control on just about every level - from their "youth" wing to their ministers.

Every day, there's a new announcement on policies nobody voted for or some anti-democratic wheeze aimed at entrenching their hegemony.
All of this was predicted, and Lo! it came to pass.

What surprises me is that anyone is surprised.....

Then there was the junior doctor who said "I voted Tory now I feel stupid" http://www.lbc.co.uk/junior-doctor-i-vo ... id--119731" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It used to be that unions and Labour had the slogan "I'm all right Jack" thrown at them, seems rather apt the other way nowadays

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 10:12 am

ephemerid wrote:On the subject of the ghastly Lucy Allan and her bullying....

I don't know if true, ephe, but joining in the Chinese whispers or rumour mongering, someone on AS' blog yesterday said she had a business advising on employment law.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 10:15 am

FWIW the DWP stating they are having trouble getting information from HMRC about me,hence five weeks JSA ,still owing(on suspicion I was losing my marbles and/or ability to read,I got confirmation from a reliable source,that is the case)Now it may seem particularly entitlement cultured ,given I am luckier than most and not in financial straits if I never get it,but I still am determined to pursue it.Frustrating,because I have proof from HMRC that I satisfy(ed) eligibility but "there is a procedure to follow"

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 10:17 am

yahyah wrote:Just reading about the meetings Osborne had with Murdoch.

There are so many questions one might ask about what sort of leverage may be involved in getting the Tories to wallop the BBC or be helpful with BSkyb deals. Not that they need much persuasion.

Convicted hacking criminal Coulson, earlier in his career, helped save Osborne's bacon after the cocaine, bondage & hooker story, by giving him favourable editorial support.

For a paper where hacking and 'dark arts' were used, it seems odd that Coulson would not use said dark arts to further entrap Osborne as had happened to other victims of hacking, honey traps & surveillance etc, thereby getting an even bigger story or....if you have a fertile imagination...leverage.

There were allegations made during the hacking trials of unpublished stories on people being kept, unused.

There is absolutely no connection whatsoever between all or any of that...everything, absolutely everything, happened in a vacuum with no nudging, influencing or connectivity...no connection whatsoever...none...no timeline of connectivity could possibly be traced from the imprisonment of Ricky Tomlinson, through to Orgreave, Hillsborough, Daniel Morgan, the Minister for Murdoch, CSA Inquiry etc etc etc...absolutely none.

How could anyone think such a thing?

In the spirit of Friday, a teaser...

Where do you find a tortoise with no legs?

Where you left it

ttfn

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 10:18 am

So Cameron has found a "pathway" in Europe.

Can anyone find that time when he promised to stop using transport analogies with respect to the EU?

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 10:24 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:So Cameron has found a "pathway" in Europe.

Can anyone find that time when he promised to stop using transport analogies with respect to the EU?

Sounds more like a nasty logjam to me, I ought to gift wrap some senna and send it pronto.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 10:35 am

utopiandreams wrote:
ephemerid wrote:On the subject of the ghastly Lucy Allan and her bullying....
I don't know if true, ephe, but joining in the Chinese whispers or rumour mongering, someone on AS' blog yesterday said she had a business advising on employment law.

Really unprofessional to do that sort of thing over the phone. It's never a good idea to phone employees at home if they're off sick as it leads to accusations of harassment.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 10:46 am

RobertSnozers wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:From the BBC
The prime minister added: "In terms of welfare, no, I haven't put any other proposals on the table - I have put my four-year proposal on the table and it remains on the table. The commission said that they believed there were solutions - not compromises, solutions. I am confident after tonight that we can find solutions."

Mr Tusk said Mr Cameron set out his position, especially on benefits and free movement. He added that leaders voiced concern but were willing to look for compromises. "Building on this positive debate we agreed to work together to find solutions in all four baskets raised by Prime Minister Cameron," he said.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel said: "I am optimistic because we all want a compromise. But work on substance needs to be done. Treaty change might be possible. Not now but perhaps later."

French President Francois Hollande said there could be adjustments over Mr Cameron's demands but EU rules and principles must be respected.
My emphasis.

Good Morning
My prediction. It will be agreed in principle that there will be a new treaty in several years that incorporates the changes Cameron wants. Cameron claims victory and steps down. Either the new treaty then stalls, or it gets drafted but is rejected by just about all the countries that hold referendums to agree new treaties. Treaty is withdrawn. Sorry Britain, we tried. Meanwhile, Cameron is long gone, and his successor (probably Osborne) is left with the fallout.

Not sure about that. At all.......

rustinpeace · Post by **rustinpeace** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 10:54 am

ephemerid wrote:What surprises me is that anyone is surprised.....

I have to say I'm amazed that the FTN'ers haven't instinctively sided with the employee with a terrible attendance record who then wanted to go off ‘on the sick’ for four months. What does surprise me is that Lucy has handled this so poorly, given her own experience running a business which advised on workplace law. It suggests extremely poor judgement on her part. Having come across her more than once during her time in Wandsworth, I’d have expected better.

I totally understand the frustration when you’re managing a small team of people and there is one person who will invent any minor excuse to take a couple of days off, or will suddenly present with some non-ailment which they’ve decided entitles them to a load of time off (all on full pay, naturally). When Lucy started her career in the City, she’ll have been able to hand such people off to large HR departments who can appropriately and sensitively move them on, to be replaced by someone who actually wants to turn up to work and do what they’re paid to do. Also, it’s different in the City where your junior team members are paid three times the national average, which I highly doubt is the case in her office now.

However she’s not in the City anymore – she’s an MP, whose every action is open to being pored over by the press. She doesn’t have that huge HR department to turn to anymore and it beggars belief that she’d leave such aggressive messages on an employee’s phone. With this and the ‘death threat’ fiasco, I’ve no doubt that her card will be marked as a total liability. I can sympathise with her though and have felt the very same frustration which you can hear in her voice, as her employee disappears yet again for another spurious reason. She should know better – the second you say ‘we all know you’re not ill’, true as it may be, you’re toast.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 11:03 am

Gotta say I love the instinctive sneer at people here that starts the post above...classy as ever.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 11:05 am

HindleA wrote:FWIW the DWP stating they are having trouble getting information from HMRC about me,hence five weeks JSA ,still owing(on suspicion I was losing my marbles and/or ability to read,I got confirmation from a reliable source,that is the case)Now it may seem particularly entitlement cultured ,given I am luckier than most and not in financial straits if I never get it,but I still am determined to pursue it.Frustrating,because I have proof from HMRC that I satisfy(ed) eligibility but "there is a procedure to follow"

I don't know why since they come from slightly opposing directions but this reminds me that I have never particularly tried to lessen my tax bills despite some accountancy training. Had I wanted when submitting returns or business accounts I could have claimed far more expenses and allowances, but didn't feel so inclined largely because I didn't want to nit-pick, being grateful for the social security my late wife and daughter received for their disabilities or indeed myself and the rest of the family when I did have to give up work to care for them.

'And on a parallel note, I can never get pig-fucker's DLA claim out of my head. Not the claim itself, it being an entitlement, but his feeling the need to claim it for their child when he and his wife are millionaires yet decries support to others as unaffordable. Just for the record, in case Tory eyes glance over this post, we didn't feel the need to claim DLA for a child until a year or so after my wife's stroke, not that I deny such support to others. Fat Dave even has the audacity to stand at the dispatch box and categorically state that the disabled and their carers are unaffected by the Under-occupancy Penalty, not that I personally know those that are.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 11:17 am

Deleted a repeated post

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 11:17 am

10000 asylum seekers lost. No pressure on the Home Secretary? May has been a disaster but just like all the others (Gove, Grayling, Hunt, IDS, Lansley) once their multiple serious mistakes are highlighted there's no hint of resigning. Since Cameron became PM who has stood down beyond Laws and Fox?

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 11:18 am

@rustinpeace

Your post reminded me of someone when I worked for a family run furniture retailers. We had 'inherited' a salesman from the parent company who seemed to take between one and three days a month off for minor ailments of some sort or another. When asked about it, he'd respond with feeling unwell and not being off much anyway, besides it was his due. We pointed out that his monthly absences particularly stood out being more than the rest of us had taken in years.

Oh yeah, thanks for confirmation of advising on employment law.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 11:20 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Gotta say I love the instinctive sneer at people here that starts the post above...classy as ever.

I suppose that goes without saying in his case, Roger, I must have overlooked that when thanking him for the rest.

rustinpeace · Post by **rustinpeace** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 11:30 am

utopiandreams wrote:@rustinpeace

Your post reminded me of someone when I worked for a family run furniture retailers. We had 'inherited' a salesman from the parent company who seemed to take between one and three days a month off for minor ailments of some sort or another. When asked about it, he'd respond with feeling unwell and not being off much anyway, besides it was his due. We pointed out that his monthly absences particularly stood out being more than the rest of us had taken in years.

Oh yeah, thanks for confirmation of advising on employment law.

My point exactly. I’m not one of those people who assumes every employee ever to take a sick day is faking it. However there are undoubtedly people who do their level best to ‘game’ the system. They are, as you say, the ones whose sick record is remarkably consistent and these are inevitably the people who then kick up a huge fuss and cling on for dear life, instead of just leaving quietly and finding a job which actually makes them happy. 'Bullying' is the buzzword du jour. Try sacking someone in the public sector and you'll see how quickly you're called a 'bully'.

Someone with Lucy’s experience should have known to immediately seek professional HR advice, aimed at getting the employee out of the door quickly, fairly and in accordance with employment law. As it is, she’s in the middle of a mess which is entirely of her own making.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 11:37 am

Another cracker of an academy takeover.

1. Outstanding primary in Kent converts in Dec 2010
2. Takes over struggling primary in the same area in June 2013
3. Sponsoring academy gets downgraded to Good in Dec 2014
4. Struggling primary gets rated Inadequate in May 2015
5. s.8 inspection report up today says this:

Context
Since the section 5 inspection which judged the academy to have serious weaknesses, the strategic leadership of the academy has changed. The sponsor, the Meopham Community Academies Trust, has ceased its sponsorship of the academy. The Secretary of State has announced that sponsorship will transfer to the Greenacre Academy Trust (GAT) whose Chief Executive Officer is Mr Andrew Reese. The governing body is pleased with this decision. One of the teachers has been promoted to join the leadership team. A new deputy headteacher has been appointed and joined the academy at the beginning of November. One teacher has left and has been replaced. Plans are well under way for the academy to be rebuilt, starting in September 2016.

Another stunning success of the academy sponsorship policy!

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 11:41 am

@rustinpeace

Since we're having a largely agreeable dialogue, rip, I'll just repeat one of my anecdotes that I may have mentioned at the G sometime. Many years ago I took on a lad when I had a furniture restoration business but within a very few hours it was obvious that I had made a very serious mistake. When it came to the end of the day I just had to let him go and paid him a couple of weeks wages in lieu of notice.

Bloody hell I had an argument on my hands when his father came in to take issue with me. He said I hadn't given his lad a chance, to which I replied, "Yes I had, I gave him a second chance after his lunch." Such is life. I shall just add that I had several excellent employees at the time.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 11:56 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Another cracker of an academy takeover.

1. Outstanding primary in Kent converts in Dec 2010
2. Takes over struggling primary in the same area in June 2013
3. Sponsoring academy gets downgraded to Good in Dec 2014
4. Struggling primary gets rated Inadequate in May 2015
5. s.8 inspection report up today says this:

Context
Since the section 5 inspection which judged the academy to have serious weaknesses, the strategic leadership of the academy has changed. The sponsor, the Meopham Community Academies Trust, has ceased its sponsorship of the academy. The Secretary of State has announced that sponsorship will transfer to the Greenacre Academy Trust (GAT) whose Chief Executive Officer is Mr Andrew Reese. The governing body is pleased with this decision. One of the teachers has been promoted to join the leadership team. A new deputy headteacher has been appointed and joined the academy at the beginning of November. One teacher has left and has been replaced. Plans are well under way for the academy to be rebuilt, starting in September 2016.
Another stunning success of the academy sponsorship policy!

At times like this I wonder what your opinion would be of the secondary school our eldest is provisionally going to from next year. Then again

rustinpeace · Post by **rustinpeace** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 12:08 pm

@utopiandreams

Such is life indeed. What baffles me is that these people will fight and scratch and claw every step of the way to hang on to a job which clearly makes them deeply unhappy. The best ‘exits’ I’ve ever managed are the ones where you can say ‘We’re not right for you and you’re not right for us. It’s no one’s fault. Go and find something you enjoy doing and I’ll give you a fair reference’; they agree, shake your hand and off they go. You can spot the potential troublemakers a mile off (when they’re not off sick that is). It sounds as though Ms. Allan had one on her hands and has dealt with it in pretty much the worst way imaginable.

It’d be one thing from a politics lifer who thinks ‘The Thick of It’ is a documentary and has gone from ‘bag carrier’ to MP without ever encountering the real world in between. From a ‘Big 4’-trained professional with a very impressive pre-politics corporate CV it’s very dispiriting.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 12:28 pm

Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 26m26 minutes ago
Those RAF Brimstone missiles Cameron said were desperately needed in Syria? None hv been fired cos so few targets:
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/camerons-syr ... h-targets/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 12:33 pm

The PM ,takes at least five holidays a year, compulsive liar,particularly about protection when carers and people with disabilities/illnesses are systematically targetted.A scumbag of the highest order.Emblematic of the vermin party and their constant sneering at people far better at their worse than they at their best.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 12:34 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 26m26 minutes ago
Those RAF Brimstone missiles Cameron said were desperately needed in Syria? None hv been fired cos so few targets:
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/camerons-syr ... h-targets/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Now who could have predicted that, eh?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 12:36 pm

Is it possible Carswell might even defect back to the Tories? Would they have him? He seems to vote with them most of the time so not necessarily a benefit to be seized re Cameron's slim (nay tiny) majority.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 12:37 pm

rustinpeace wrote:... It’d be one thing from a politics lifer who thinks ‘The Thick of It’ is a documentary and has gone from ‘bag carrier’ to MP without ever encountering the real world in between. From a ‘Big 4’-trained professional with a very impressive pre-politics corporate CV it’s very dispiriting.

On that point, rip, and I would be interested in your view, there seems a total lack of professionalism in politics today. All the more surprising given how many have studied politics or worked as spads beforehand. Perhaps that's the issue too much academia rather than real world experience, but even this doesn't account for much of what I refer. Take risk or impact assessments or examples of the minutes of meetings that RoT often highlights, they're simply not fit for purpose. I have to say that I'm particularly surprised with the inadequate standard of such reports coming from government or the civil service compared to academia... or local government for that matter.

As for Westminster politics, particularly since Cameron and Osborne, it's just a joke or treated as a big game with all the jibes, the laughter or guffaws over serious and sometimes distressing issues. You may have gathered that I particularly despise Cameron, nevertheless the Speaker should take a much firmer grasp of proceedings... and that is without even touching on the expense, the lies or misdirection that takes place, let alone complicity in acting against national interests.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 18 Dec, 2015 12:50 pm

"As for Westminster politics, particularly since Cameron and Osborne, it's just a joke or treated as a big game "

Sorry UD, but I initially read this as
'a pig game '