Tuesday 22nd December 2015

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 7:13 am

Morning all. Polly full of doom and gloom.

Labour people are optimists, but this time I see no hope

http://gu.com/p/4fa2a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 7:24 am

A&E visits for alcohol harm tops quarter of a million - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35151246" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lazy picture choice to accompany this piece (young lady slumped over) , given the sentence "Men aged 45-64 made up the most admissions" quickly glossed over.

Would it be churlish of me to guess what has happened to the budgets associated with advertising campaigns for the dangers of excessive drinking and support services associated with alcohol dependency?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 8:23 am

Morning...The sun's on its way back.
The sunset times have already started reversing.

Just read this Indie piece:

''Fears of new economic crash as British families run £40bn deficit
Exclusive: Fears UK's economic growth based on soaring levels of debt and could easily collapse''
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 82221.html

That's something for Labour to run with surely ? Seema Malhotra puts up a good argument in the article.
I was banging on in 2010 about the fact that even OBR figures showed that Osborne's miracle would mean household debt would be way up by the end of his term.

The Indie treat it as if it it something new, or unexpected. It isn't, although maybe even higher than predicted.

Just remind me who the Indie told us to vote for in May ?
& who are the economists who are surprised retail sales figures aren't that good ?
Do these people actually live in the real world, on real wages ?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 8:24 am

deleted, as Refitman's done his magic.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 8:29 am

From the Indie article:

''Five years ago UK households were firmly in the black, running a surplus of £70bn as Britons tightened their belts in the wake of the financial crash and put money aside to save.

But the new OBR figures show households are now deeply in the red, as growing economic confidence has led to a national spending spree.''

No mention of the effect of zero hours & temporary contracts, low wages, government cuts ?
It's all because of a 'national spending spree'...they make it sound like everyone's had a jacuzzi installed and are living the high life. As I posted last week, economic confidence is not something retailers and businesses where I live are experiencing.

If anyone sees any closer analysis, showing where people have spent their debt, please can you post it.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 8:47 am

Well exactly yahyah, which retailers have been saying sales have been going well for them? Erm....

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 8:51 am

I don't recognise the term "spending spree" as I always spent on a strictly necessary basis.I have got a freezer full of about fourty packets of pies ,so that is the Xmas presents sorted out,they cannot say I (do not) buy the same thing every year.I was the oldest one there,frightening to think that I was old to be a grandfather to some of them.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 9:01 am

''The figures follow a Bank of England study which found that the average mortgage debt in Britain rose from £83,000 in 2014 to £85,000 this year. Unsecured debt, which includes credit card charges, personal loans, student loans and utility bills, stands at round £8,000 per household''

'National spending spree'...on things like student loans, energy & water bills !

Whooppeee. We Brits really know how to have fun.
Turn on the tap darling, put on the kettle and the toaster, and let's party like there's no tomorrow.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 9:03 am

It's like living in an alternate universe, it really is.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 9:19 am

Have we always had such monstrous people acting out their stuff in the public arena - or is it just that we are made too horribly aware of them now and their impact is mega amplified through the MSM and social media?

Some examples: Trump, Shkreli, Hopkins, Ashley, Fergus Wilson, IDS and many others.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 9:53 am

yahyah wrote:Morning...The sun's on its way back.
The sunset times have already started reversing.

Just read this Indie piece:

''Fears of new economic crash as British families run £40bn deficit
Exclusive: Fears UK's economic growth based on soaring levels of debt and could easily collapse''
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 82221.html

That's something for Labour to run with surely ? Seema Malhotra puts up a good argument in the article.
I was banging on in 2010 about the fact that even OBR figures showed that Osborne's miracle would mean household debt would be way up by the end of his term.

The Indie treat it as if it it something new, or unexpected. It isn't, although maybe even higher than predicted.

Just remind me who the Indie told us to vote for in May ?
& who are the economists who are surprised retail sales figures aren't that good ?
Do these people actually live in the real world, on real wages ?

The rise in household debt wasn't just predicted, it's actually essential if Osborne is to achieve his surplus targets. It was a vital component of his 2014 Autumn statement figures. There were even a few articles discussing the risks of such an economic strategy. I share your frustration that the Independent would present this as something unexpected, when a rise in household debt is a deliberate part of government fiscal policy. If I'm aware of this, it seems impossible an economics writer for the Independent wouldn't be.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 9:55 am

Willow904 wrote:
yahyah wrote:Morning...The sun's on its way back.
The sunset times have already started reversing.

Just read this Indie piece:

''Fears of new economic crash as British families run £40bn deficit
Exclusive: Fears UK's economic growth based on soaring levels of debt and could easily collapse''
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... 82221.html

That's something for Labour to run with surely ? Seema Malhotra puts up a good argument in the article.
I was banging on in 2010 about the fact that even OBR figures showed that Osborne's miracle would mean household debt would be way up by the end of his term.

The Indie treat it as if it it something new, or unexpected. It isn't, although maybe even higher than predicted.

Just remind me who the Indie told us to vote for in May ?
& who are the economists who are surprised retail sales figures aren't that good ?
Do these people actually live in the real world, on real wages ?
The rise in household debt wasn't just predicted, it's actually essential if Osborne is to achieve his surplus targets. It was a vital component of his 2014 Autumn statement figures. There were even a few articles discussing the risks of such an economic strategy. I share your frustration that the Independent would present this as something unexpected, when a rise in household debt is a deliberate part of government fiscal policy. If I'm aware of this, it seems impossible an economics writer for the Independent wouldn't be.

I suppose this is what he meant all along by rebalancing the economy.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 10:21 am

Barry Gardiner ‏@BarryGardiner 2m2 minutes ago
Wow!
City AM really coming out in favour of Sadiq for Mayor.
http://www.cityam.com/231326/mayoral-ho ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 11:03 am

In reply to our troll, Polly is a diehard anti-Corbynite and has been totally against him from the beginning.

Never forget her political past.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 11:14 am

RobertSnozers wrote:^Must be terrible to be lonely this close to Christmas

There doesn't appear to be a Readers' Edition thing over at the Guardian today. So that may be the explanation.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 11:15 am

Good morfternoon.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 11:17 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 81706.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jobless and disabled people could have benefits stopped on Christmas Eve under ‘tough new sanctions regime

Remember these are people that managed to arrange required assessments to a locked door in my area.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 11:33 am

No, you are a troll because you are a troll. You fit the generally agreed definition of the term very well.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 11:36 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:In reply to our troll, Polly is a diehard anti-Corbynite and has been totally against him from the beginning.

Never forget her political past.

No-one questions Polly's credentials when it comes to sticking up for the less well off in society.
Even so, unless they are living with the despair of not enough money to survive decently, and with the certainty MPs and big wheels in business are mostly if not totally unsympathetic to so much suffering, let alone causing it, then they'll have problems understanding why Corbyn is so popular.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 11:43 am

The Christmas sanctions won't (or shouldn't) affect the Christmas payments, unless the system has been changed.

If a person's "pay day" (benefit week ending day) falls on or close to a Bank Holiday, the payments are usually "advanced". The idea is that you get your benefit before the BH so that you are not subject to a delay in payment due to the BH.

Payments due from 23rd to 28th December should be paid on 23rd; people due to sign on from tomorrow should not, in theory, have their money stopped until after Christmas. Jobcentres can't apply a sanction to benefits already paid.

All the same, it's pretty shitty if you go along to sign on the day before Christmas to be told you'll be sanctioned for your next payment. It has been known for people to be sanctioned for not applying for a job on Christmas Day.

Sick.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 11:48 am

PS - for anyone claiming here, there is a full list of the relevant dates at http://legalbeagles.info/benefits-and-t ... tmas-2015/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 12:02 pm

A lot of people who were never 'hard left', are having a rethink, and no wonder.

Even Maggie's reforms didn't cause the degradation and fear Cameron and the Tory cabal are creating.
We weren't faced with the final breakup and sell off of UK plc, blatant hate and spite from the press, or lying and cheating to get to the top and stay there no matter what, with not a trace of shame or conscience when caught.

It's a whole different ball game now. It's out and out war. Look at today's front page of the Sun...That says it all.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 12:14 pm

Yes, I see that requiring the Sun to put its Corbyn "apology" on the front page worked well.......

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 12:47 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:No, you are a troll because you are a troll. You fit the generally agreed definition of the term very well.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 12:48 pm

Of course there is no need to sanction those perfectly entitled but being purposefully denied.

GetYou · Post by **GetYou** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 12:48 pm

In lighter news, overnight the human race achieved something which could change the cost of space travel forever:

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shorter version " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Awesome. Well done SpaceX.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 12:50 pm

I was jesting yesterday about Coulson...looks like it wasn't such a joke.

Joe Public ‏@jpublik 51m51 minutes ago
Private Eye reveal Telegraph have hired Andy Coulson as a "consultant" for £60,000 fee

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 12:52 pm

Post by **refitman** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 12:57 pm

rustinpeace wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Yes, I see that requiring the Sun to put its Corbyn "apology" on the front page worked well.......
Well therein lies the beauty of binning Leveson and retaining our free press. The public could quite easily choose to buy the Morning Star instead and read Corbyn's views straight from the horse's mouth. The Sun can't be blamed for the fact that roughly 1,968,702 people choose to read their words over the Morning Star's (according to 2015 circulation figures).

Corbyn has been talking about how desperate he is to muzzle the press. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised - it's how people like him tend to behave. We must however be thankful that he'll never get the chance.

Where has Corbyn been talking about "muzzling the press"? Come on, links. Give us some fucking evidence.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 12:57 pm

George Osborne's deficit target in doubt as borrowing climbs in November
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... ember.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 1:07 pm

Owen Jones has pointed out the obvious about Osbornomics in the Guardian, but is anyone listening?:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... omic-model" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When George Osborne became chancellor, Britons were spending £67bn less than they were earning; according to the Office of Budget Responsibility, they’re now running up a £40bn deficit. Earlier this year, the Centre for Social Justice – set up by Iain Duncan Smith himself – reported that total household debt had soared to £1.47tn, the highest level ever, and that Britons were being driven into debt to pay their bills.

High household debt was one of the reasons the UK was hit particularly hard by the global financial crash. Osborne is leaving us painfully exposed in the event of another economic downturn. It also makes a hike in interest rates back to normal levels next to impossible.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 1:13 pm

Osborne's just shifting debt onto households as predicted.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 1:23 pm

Peter Jukes ‏@peterjukes 11m11 minutes ago Camberwell, London
Pretty sure Coulson at meeting with Brooks and Kuttner when confronted with interference in Daniel Morgan murder inquiry Jan 03 1/2

Peter Jukes
‏@peterjukes
News of the World had followed, hacked and blagged details of lead murder detective in June 02 on behalf of murder suspects. 2/2

Thankfully Peter Jukes is like a dog with a bone when it comes to Coulson, criminality, and the Murdochs.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 1:30 pm

Where's the link/s Refitman asked for rather than your spin ?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 1:51 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Yes, I see that requiring the Sun to put its Corbyn "apology" on the front page worked well.......

If that's not a spit in the eye, I don't know what is..

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 1:52 pm

yahyah wrote:George Osborne's deficit target in doubt as borrowing climbs in November
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econ ... ember.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes - I was listening to an article on this on the BBC news. Apparently, more austerity is to be the solution and is to be expected in the March budget.

Edited to tidy up.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 2:02 pm

refitman wrote:
rustinpeace wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Yes, I see that requiring the Sun to put its Corbyn "apology" on the front page worked well.......
Well therein lies the beauty of binning Leveson and retaining our free press. The public could quite easily choose to buy the Morning Star instead and read Corbyn's views straight from the horse's mouth. The Sun can't be blamed for the fact that roughly 1,968,702 people choose to read their words over the Morning Star's (according to 2015 circulation figures).

Corbyn has been talking about how desperate he is to muzzle the press. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised - it's how people like him tend to behave. We must however be thankful that he'll never get the chance.
Where has Corbyn been talking about "muzzling the press"? Come on, links. Give us some fucking evidence.

I think Rusty's been at the Christmas Brandy already.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 2:02 pm

Wanting to curtail over powerful media plutocrats is not trying to "muzzle the press". Hope this helps.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 2:07 pm

rustinpeace wrote:
refitman wrote:
rustinpeace wrote: Well therein lies the beauty of binning Leveson and retaining our free press. The public could quite easily choose to buy the Morning Star instead and read Corbyn's views straight from the horse's mouth. The Sun can't be blamed for the fact that roughly 1,968,702 people choose to read their words over the Morning Star's (according to 2015 circulation figures).

Corbyn has been talking about how desperate he is to muzzle the press. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised - it's how people like him tend to behave. We must however be thankful that he'll never get the chance.
Where has Corbyn been talking about "muzzling the press"? Come on, links. Give us some fucking evidence.
You didn't read Corbyn's little interview about 'working on a media policy to break up newspaper groups' and promote newspapers 'like The Morning Star' then? The hard left has always dreamt of controlling the media. It's the only way they can force their ludicrous views on a public which has rejected them time and again.

So you're happy with Murdoch, Brooks and Cameron making nice again? Happy that our press is fast becoming a laughing stock, and the UK a joke?

You've heard the expression 'Chewed, used and spit out?' That'll be us in a few years time when the big corporations move on to some other poor bloody country who can give them more profit.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 2:23 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/23/world ... p=cur&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On Sunday, a man-made hill of dirt and construction debris collapsed in the southern Chinese city of Shenzhen.

Reminds me of Aberfan. So predictable. So very sad. I never understand why some people are so desperate to unpick the health and safety so-called "red-tape" that has built up in response to so many similar tragic incidents in this country over the years.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 2:31 pm

Mike Smithson has been tweeting change in Labour share of vote since Corbyn became leader. Just one positive, London +3.3%. Wales more or less unchanged at +0.1%. The rest are all negative like the below:

: Smithson.jpg (85.21 KiB) Viewed 8732 times

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 2:42 pm

yahyah wrote:Where's the link/s Refitman asked for rather than your spin ?

It's this one since someone can't be bothered posting it.

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-00 ... nlgbfmLTIU

As has been pointed out, none of what Corbyn says suggests muzzling the press. But then we knew that already...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 2:48 pm

Endless tautological bollox.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 3:07 pm

Just reading Heseltine's article about the EU, Cameron, and his cabinet.

Another shambolic cock-up on the way then.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 3:22 pm

Willow904 wrote:Mike Smithson has been tweeting change in Labour share of vote since Corbyn became leader. Just one positive, London +3.3%. Wales more or less unchanged at +0.1%. The rest are all negative like the below:

Smithson.jpg

A data point but is it relevant?

Statistically significant.....? Adjusted for turnout, seat composition etc?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 3:25 pm

I'm shocked, shocked to find that after all free schools are simply going to be new academies being opened by existing academy chains and not by parent-groups at all as they won't have the necessary experience required!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 3:31 pm

That last point...multi-academy trusts have (i) CEOs (ii) finance directors (iii) corporate branding e.g. ARK, Harris, Oasis in front of every school name (iv) Governing Boards - not Bodies any longer.

We also - yes, even LA maintained schools - have to switch to quarterly financial reporting which for a school is a right pain in the arse given that we're geared to a three term year.

I had to fill out a questionnaire for the LA and made the point that the quarter ended June would mean a report in mid July.

When do we break up? Mid-end July which effectively means another meeting just to go through that quarter's numbers.

Schools = companies.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 3:55 pm

Reading council leader "gobsmacked" at extra £5 million cuts. She said what the Treasury had appeared to have done was to take into account extra cash the councils will get in future from the business rates but that money will not be forthcoming until the end of the Parliament - 2020.

Reduced Government cash means councillors will have to find £5million cuts by February on top of the £7.2 million already proposed

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local- ... a-10634811

Some Tory councils are keeping quiet about this.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 3:59 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
Reading council leader "gobsmacked" at extra £5 million cuts. She said what the Treasury had appeared to have done was to take into account extra cash the councils will get in future from the business rates but that money will not be forthcoming until the end of the Parliament - 2020.

Reduced Government cash means councillors will have to find £5million cuts by February on top of the £7.2 million already proposed

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local- ... a-10634811
Some Tory councils are keeping quiet about this.

Cue the complaints about local government fat cats when the cuts bite deep.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 22 Dec, 2015 4:10 pm

Essential cuts are required. How else are we going to pay for D'Souza?

Lord Speaker's expenses reveal £230 bill for chauffeur to wait outside opera

http://gu.com/p/4faef" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;