Monday 22nd September

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 3:16 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
pk1 wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: You probably noticed Pollysnemesis * trot that line out. Smithson is on to something there, it is the concentration on Miliband rather than Labour which is proving the Tories undoing. There is an analogy in the world of football (if I may digress slightly); Chelsea do better when Mourinho is their manager partly because the Press concentrate on his antics and leave the players alone to get on with their job - pretty much the same thing here.

* That name always creases me up, as I said on the blog, delusions of adequacy. I'm astonished that one, and my pop at Rusty, have been left untouched.
Yes you may well be onto something there.

I'm concerned by Sparrows coverage of the conference. His latest line is
his speech was just as short as all the other shadow cabinet speeches we’ve had so are. (Most of them barely cover three pages of text.)

I'm not in front of a TV so I have no idea how they're going down but the sense he's giving off is that none of the Shadow Cabinet have anything really worth saying. I hope I'm wrong & that Ed will give the speech I'm desperately waiting to hear but my hope of seeing him in No 10 next May is starting to fade
I've mentioned the Sparrow's partiality before and been roundly condemned for it, but I stand by previous comments; although he does try to be impartial, and is certainly better than the whole Wintour/Watt cabal, he isn't a Labour man (unlike James Walsh). And while that shouldn't be important on days like today it is; if he is choosing to ignore speeches because he thinks they are too short/lack substance then he is not doing his job properly - he is there to report, not to editorialise.

Have never quite been able to pin down AS politically, tbh. I agree at times he comes across as rather LibDem-ish and Labour-sceptical - but then he throws something into the mix like his statement a few months ago that he actually quite likes Ed.

I have long thought that a tendency at times to be sucked into Westminster lobby "groupthink" is his biggest failing.

Still one of the best journalists currently at the Graun, though

JackPranker · Post by **JackPranker** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 3:33 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Still one of the best journalists currently at the Graun, though

Damning with faint praise, AK?

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 3:43 pm

Afternoon folks,
Not directly related to the conference, but here's an interesting book about how social factors & stress can interact to affect morbidity & mortality. It's a bit technical in places, but skimming it you can find numerous mechanisms through which social inequality can have adverse outcomes on long term health and life expectancy.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK43737/

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 3:45 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
pk1 wrote: Yes you may well be onto something there.

I'm concerned by Sparrows coverage of the conference. His latest line is

I'm not in front of a TV so I have no idea how they're going down but the sense he's giving off is that none of the Shadow Cabinet have anything really worth saying. I hope I'm wrong & that Ed will give the speech I'm desperately waiting to hear but my hope of seeing him in No 10 next May is starting to fade
I've mentioned the Sparrow's partiality before and been roundly condemned for it, but I stand by previous comments; although he does try to be impartial, and is certainly better than the whole Wintour/Watt cabal, he isn't a Labour man (unlike James Walsh). And while that shouldn't be important on days like today it is; if he is choosing to ignore speeches because he thinks they are too short/lack substance then he is not doing his job properly - he is there to report, not to editorialise.
Have never quite been able to pin down AS politically, tbh. I agree at times he comes across as rather LibDem-ish and Labour-sceptical - but then he throws something into the mix like his statement a few months ago that he actually quite likes Ed.

I have long thought that a tendency at times to be sucked into Westminster lobby "groupthink" is his biggest failing.

Still one of the best journalists currently at the Graun, though

Not exactly much competition these days really!

Post by **refitman** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 3:59 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Still one of the best journalists currently at the Graun, though
Not exactly much competition these days really!
Nick Davies and... er... um...

Zoe Williams...

JustMom · Post by **JustMom** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:04 pm

Seamus Milne is good.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:05 pm

Saw a post on UKPR which made a good point about CallMe's proposed constitutional changes.
At present, if the Scots would like a Tory Government to run the economy and a Labour one to run the NHS, they can. Why shouldn't the English be afforded the same opportunity? Under Cameron's plans we'd have to have one party for everything. Not fair!

JustMom · Post by **JustMom** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:06 pm

frightful_oik wrote:Saw a post on UKPR which made a good point about CallMe's proposed constitutional changes.
At present, if the Scots would like a Tory Government to run the economy and a Labour one to run the NHS, they can. Why shouldn't the English be afforded the same opportunity? Under Cameron's plans we'd have to have one party for everything. Not fair!

That's just what would suit him,his own little dictatorship.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:14 pm

JustMom wrote:Seamus Milne is good.

Polleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!! And Owen. Patrick Butler. Shiv Malik. Randeep Ramesh. Aditya Chakraborrty. Hugh Muir.
It's not as bad as it seems when you compare it to the Torygraph or the Indy.

And if all else fails...Martin Rowson. Upon whom I have a severe if not terminal girly crush.

Huhne is gone......now for Kettle, White, the truly ghastly Cristina Patterson, Jenkins, Mason, Wintour and Anagram.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:18 pm

JustMom wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:Saw a post on UKPR which made a good point about CallMe's proposed constitutional changes.
At present, if the Scots would like a Tory Government to run the economy and a Labour one to run the NHS, they can. Why shouldn't the English be afforded the same opportunity? Under Cameron's plans we'd have to have one party for everything. Not fair!

That's just what would suit him,his own little dictatorship.

It would.

He's concocting it over luncheon at Chequers today.

Decades of difficulty on our constitution can be solved over a spot of lunch and by the time they get to tiffin it'll be sorted.

Bonnie Greer Tweeted earlier that there is only one woman MP at the lunch apart from the ones pouring the tea.
I've got news for Bonnie - it won't be tea they're drinking. Cameron must have his daily claret, dontcha know.

JustMom · Post by **JustMom** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:22 pm

ephemerid wrote:
JustMom wrote:
frightful_oik wrote:Saw a post on UKPR which made a good point about CallMe's proposed constitutional changes.
At present, if the Scots would like a Tory Government to run the economy and a Labour one to run the NHS, they can. Why shouldn't the English be afforded the same opportunity? Under Cameron's plans we'd have to have one party for everything. Not fair!

That's just what would suit him,his own little dictatorship.

It would.

He's concocting it over luncheon at Chequers today.

Decades of difficulty on our constitution can be solved over a spot of lunch and by the time they get to tiffin it'll be sorted.

Bonnie Greer Tweeted earlier that there is only one woman MP at the lunch apart from the ones pouring the tea.
I've got news for Bonnie - it won't be tea they're drinking. Cameron must have his daily claret, dontcha know.

Would it be possible for them to cook up some way of stopping the scot MP's from voting,ir is is this a constitutional matter ?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:28 pm

Just back from hitting a few charity shops...

Let no one convince you times are getting better. It's pretty obvious that slightly better off families off are the ones that keep donations ticking over.

Today, I was shocked by how little stock a couple of shops had, and although this was my first visit in over a month, I recognised stuff sitting on the shelves from the last time.
It easily compares to how I remember the last recession and there is absolutely no sign of things getting better.

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:28 pm

Ashcroft:

LAB – 33% (nc)
CON – 27% (-6)
UKIP – 17% (+3)
LDEM – 9% (nc)
GRN – 6% (nc)

Poll taken over the last weekend.

Given how last week produced poll parity, its good to see a reversion to the norm this week.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:29 pm

JustMom wrote:
ephemerid wrote:
JustMom wrote:

That's just what would suit him,his own little dictatorship.

It would.

He's concocting it over luncheon at Chequers today.

Decades of difficulty on our constitution can be solved over a spot of lunch and by the time they get to tiffin it'll be sorted.

Bonnie Greer Tweeted earlier that there is only one woman MP at the lunch apart from the ones pouring the tea.
I've got news for Bonnie - it won't be tea they're drinking. Cameron must have his daily claret, dontcha know.
Would it be possible for them to cook up some way of stopping the scot MP's from voting,ir is is this a constitutional matter ?

It is a talking shop. Even with a majority he couldn't get it on the statute books before May, and he doesn't have a majority. Danny Alexander of all people, has said no agreement without Labour.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:31 pm

Perry Beeches in the news for entirely different reasons:

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/mi ... ma-7809992" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I noted that while students showed compassion for the fellow human who had spent many hours clinging to a coach axle, quoted parents and headmaster Liam Nolan seemed to show none.

No doubt there will be many BTL comments to rival anything the DM manages, they have increased hugely since the Trojan nonsense, I haven't checked, it's too bloody dispiriting.

How anyone can think these migrants who risk so much can be anything other than desperate, with a hostile population, and quite brutal internment till deportation these days, I don't know.

No mention of so much as a drink being offered, but the government will cough up four million to stop them getting any chance of claiming asylum by strengthening the fences in France.

The heads main concern - he may have to rethink foreign trips, what a fucking example for young people. How about a discussion about how Sudan came to be so broken, and why there is such economic disparity between nations? No, I didn't think so either. So sad this is what our young get, my sons peers at 11 risked suspension, the whole year, very mixed intake, to hold a 'stop the war' vigil. Many teachers wholeheartedly supported them, parents too.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:39 pm

ephemerid wrote:
JustMom wrote:Seamus Milne is good.

Polleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!! And Owen. Patrick Butler. Shiv Malik. Randeep Ramesh. Aditya Chakraborrty. Hugh Muir.
It's not as bad as it seems when you compare it to the Torygraph or the Indy.

And if all else fails...Martin Rowson. Upon whom I have a severe if not terminal girly crush.

Huhne is gone......now for Kettle, White, the truly ghastly Cristina Patterson, Jenkins, Mason, Wintour and Anagram.

I'll certainly give you Martin. Felt slightly smug last night when he started following me on Twitter.

JustMom · Post by **JustMom** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:44 pm

I can't face the Graun just lately,my blood pressure shoots up and it makes me so depressed. I have been diving in here instead.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:46 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
ephemerid wrote:
JustMom wrote:Seamus Milne is good.

Polleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!! And Owen. Patrick Butler. Shiv Malik. Randeep Ramesh. Aditya Chakraborrty. Hugh Muir.
It's not as bad as it seems when you compare it to the Torygraph or the Indy.

And if all else fails...Martin Rowson. Upon whom I have a severe if not terminal girly crush.

Huhne is gone......now for Kettle, White, the truly ghastly Cristina Patterson, Jenkins, Mason, Wintour and Anagram.
I'll certainly give you Martin. Felt slightly smug last night when he started following me on Twitter.

Obsequiousness, they name is TGS!

Seriously, it was informing Cartoonist Sir Rowson that his cat has staff (ie. he) to do the work that did it.

Being a dog person myself (and sadly currently lacking the wolfhound/deerhound I want) I refuse to serve a feline.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:47 pm

pk1 wrote:Ashcroft:

LAB – 33% (nc)
CON – 27% (-6)
UKIP – 17% (+3)
LDEM – 9% (nc)
GRN – 6% (nc)

Poll taken over the last weekend.

Given how last week produced poll parity, its good to see a reversion to the norm this week.

"Others" up suggests a bump for the Nats, not really surprising.

Post by **refitman** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:50 pm

Sounds like goodstuff from Rachel Reeves (from AS):

[Reeves] dismissed Iain Duncan Smith, the work and pensions secretary, as “a man with his own special Midas touch - everything he touches turns into a complete and utter shambles”.

Universal Credit – stuck in first gear.

Work Capability Assessments – in meltdown.

Personal Independence Payments – mired in delays.

The Work Programme – failing the people who need help the most.

The Youth Contract – an embarrassing flop.

It would be comical if it wasn’t so criminal. We should be angry that taxpayers’ money is being squandered. That vulnerable people are being ill-treated. That lives are being scarred. That talent is being wasted. We should be angry – and they should be ashamed.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... f407ad421a

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:55 pm

National GP crisis hits Southcote surgery

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local- ... te-7810709

I used to think being a doctor was a calling to help the sick and that came above everything.
Not so much now though. In the States the majority of them are shockingly greedy, so I shouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happening here.

When I see my doctor driving a Nissan rather than his sleek Jag I'll admit I'm wrong.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:55 pm

ephemerid wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
ephemerid wrote:
Polleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!! And Owen. Patrick Butler. Shiv Malik. Randeep Ramesh. Aditya Chakraborrty. Hugh Muir.
It's not as bad as it seems when you compare it to the Torygraph or the Indy.

And if all else fails...Martin Rowson. Upon whom I have a severe if not terminal girly crush.

Huhne is gone......now for Kettle, White, the truly ghastly Cristina Patterson, Jenkins, Mason, Wintour and Anagram.
I'll certainly give you Martin. Felt slightly smug last night when he started following me on Twitter.

Obsequiousness, they name is TGS!

Seriously, it was informing Cartoonist Sir Rowson that his cat has staff (ie. he) to do the work that did it.

Being a dog person myself (and sadly currently lacking the wolfhound/deerhound I want) I refuse to serve a feline.

Oh I realize why, that cat conversation was fun - his comment about the moggy coming back with a Gucci handbag full of herring (again) made me chortle. I don't really do star struck, several years working at Harrods makes you immune to that, but there is something quite satisfying about a Twitter follow from some quarters.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:57 pm

refitman wrote:Sounds like goodstuff from Rachel Reeves (from AS):
[Reeves] dismissed Iain Duncan Smith, the work and pensions secretary, as “a man with his own special Midas touch - everything he touches turns into a complete and utter shambles”.

Universal Credit – stuck in first gear.

Work Capability Assessments – in meltdown.

Personal Independence Payments – mired in delays.

The Work Programme – failing the people who need help the most.

The Youth Contract – an embarrassing flop.

It would be comical if it wasn’t so criminal. We should be angry that taxpayers’ money is being squandered. That vulnerable people are being ill-treated. That lives are being scarred. That talent is being wasted. We should be angry – and they should be ashamed.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... f407ad421a

You're right that is good. What we've always longer for here - to combine the criticism of the shambles with a more idealistic social justice line.

"We should be angry and they should be ashamed" really speaks to me.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:58 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
JustMom wrote:Seamus Milne is good.
Really? His articles on the Falklands are festering tripe with an aversion to fact

Milne is OK for the occasional bit of Blairite-bashing, but the bottom line is that he is a Stalinist numpty.

And to those who have asked - yes, the ambiguity in my compliment for Sparrow was not unintentional

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 4:59 pm

When I see my doctor driving a Nissan rather than his sleek Jag I'll admit I'm wrong.

Should have added: And our dentist, and for that matter the Vet.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 5:02 pm

Breakfast clubs in jeopardy after Council cuts

BREAKFAST and after school clubs could be at risk of closure after borough council leaders announced further budget cuts.

But while borough education leader Cllr John Ennis (pictured right) admitted that the ring-fenced Government Dedicated School Grant (DSG) has been protected at £87m, the Education Support Grant (ESG) has been cut by 20 per cent a year since 2010.

http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/ ... uncil-cuts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 5:02 pm

Apologies if I am re-hashing here?!

Peter Oborne says Cameron and his ilk run the risk of looking like worthless schemers, I for one won't argue with that assessment.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peter ... ciliation/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 5:03 pm

I rather like William Keegan. (Technically an Observer bod, admittedly.)

Zoe Williams - already mentioned - has undergone a welcome metamorphosis over the past year or so. And Martin Rowson, I agree, is a hero. Much more up my street than Steve Bell.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 5:16 pm

Excellent news - HT will recommend against going for academy status at Hove Park.

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/11488340 ... ?ref=var_0

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 5:19 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:Apologies if I am re-hashing here?!

Peter Oborne says Cameron and his ilk run the risk of looking like worthless schemers, I for one won't argue with that assessment.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peter ... ciliation/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He savages Cameron and Osborne ... rightly so .... if they were indeed sitting around the dinner table last Thursday night chuckling about putting a bomb under Labour with EV4EL rather than considering carefully what to do for the country as a whole post referendum.

And good to see Oborne saying:

Messing around with the Constitution needs time and consideration, with all parties (including Labour) very much involved. Ed Miliband is absolutely right about this.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 5:28 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:
ephemerid wrote:
TheGrimSqueaker wrote: I'll certainly give you Martin. Felt slightly smug last night when he started following me on Twitter.

Obsequiousness, they name is TGS!

Seriously, it was informing Cartoonist Sir Rowson that his cat has staff (ie. he) to do the work that did it.

Being a dog person myself (and sadly currently lacking the wolfhound/deerhound I want) I refuse to serve a feline.
Oh I realize why, that cat conversation was fun - his comment about the moggy coming back with a Gucci handbag full of herring (again) made me chortle. I don't really do star struck, several years working at Harrods makes you immune to that, but there is something quite satisfying about a Twitter follow from some quarters.

I know - just poking fun.

Having wiped the noses and arses of some very high-up personages in my time, I'm not startstruck either...... but I will confess to a little surge of pride when Harry Leslie Smith said a post I'd written (about my dad being one of the 50% of Lancaster crew who made it home and helped to build what we are losing now) was one of the best he'd read. No, not a little surge - a real buzz, actually.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 5:30 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
letsskiptotheleft wrote:Apologies if I am re-hashing here?!

Peter Oborne says Cameron and his ilk run the risk of looking like worthless schemers, I for one won't argue with that assessment.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peter ... ciliation/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He savages Cameron and Osborne ... rightly so .... if they were indeed sitting around the dinner table last Thursday night chuckling about putting a bomb under Labour with EV4EL rather than considering carefully what to do for the country as a whole post referendum.

And good to see Oborne saying:
Messing around with the Constitution needs time and consideration, with all parties (including Labour) very much involved. Ed Miliband is absolutely right about this.

Yes, it's very amusing.

Cameron thinking that this was a political masterstroke has not only had the more sensible Tories - and Boris - come out and criticise it but the academies like Vernon Bogdanor.

There was a bit on AS earlier that said that their reply to that report was going to be a slow and considered response - not a partisan and rushed one like this. They must have thought they were so clever...

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 5:33 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
refitman wrote:Sounds like goodstuff from Rachel Reeves (from AS):
[Reeves] dismissed Iain Duncan Smith, the work and pensions secretary, as “a man with his own special Midas touch - everything he touches turns into a complete and utter shambles”.

Universal Credit – stuck in first gear.

Work Capability Assessments – in meltdown.

Personal Independence Payments – mired in delays.

The Work Programme – failing the people who need help the most.

The Youth Contract – an embarrassing flop.

It would be comical if it wasn’t so criminal. We should be angry that taxpayers’ money is being squandered. That vulnerable people are being ill-treated. That lives are being scarred. That talent is being wasted. We should be angry – and they should be ashamed.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... f407ad421a
You're right that is good. What we've always longer for here - to combine the criticism of the shambles with a more idealistic social justice line.

"We should be angry and they should be ashamed" really speaks to me.

It all sounds fine, but what is she actually going to DO?

I missed the speech, so I'd be grateful if someone could tell me.

I gather from Twitter that she said she would "come down hard" on any contractor who did not assess sick/disabled people "fairly".
What does than even mean?

If there was anything said about serious - and I'm thinking really serious - reform of the system then I'd love to hear it.

I'm off to my AA meeting now - where I can get my dose of sanity - and I'll pop in later to see of anyone can answer the above for me.

Toodlepip!

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 5:34 pm

Spent today catching up on the weekends posts. What a difference a few days can make.

I've not had much to say on Scotland, it was my opinion that it was divide and rule anyway, based on the Tories sticking to a plan that is not of their devising. Simply put, to prepare the country for the changes TTIP will bring, and the privatisation of everything.

I'm not in favour of lots of smaller 'parliaments' of any flavour, in a relatively small nation aren't they just a regional assemblies? I'd rather a radical second chamber reform, no more lords, and a nod to real expertise, not director level, but worker level. PR isn't all it's cracked up to be, it results in many stalemates unless there's a common enemy hence it often works well at lower level, but when deployed as a means of bringing in a government has two unwelcome effects, stalemate and micro-coalitions where decision making is concerned, and representation for extreme groups whose aims are usually discriminatory in some way. The recent Swedish elections and the rise of neo-Facism a case in point. Right now I'm looking at Podemos in Spain as an example of a new party with aims for a kind of centrist new vision, they are looking at real solutions, not just patching up the already unworkable. Elsewhere in the world nearly all the movements for change were hijacked, but not in Spain, and I believe this is because they had a coherent political aim to start with.

I'm not at all for fast change here, the potential for unpleasant things to hitch a ride is too great, I'll point out the various Arab 'spring' events, and Ukraine too. One other place succeeded in preventing such a hijack, Turkey. There are a few others whose outcomes are yet to be seen.

The truth is that neo-liberalism is a formidable apparatus, and can only be effectively opposed by getting the pedagogy right. Which is where socialism is now, stuck between the thinking of the past and some difficulty in conveying hope for the future. If it exists here it is as yet not visible.

So all the attempts to suggest solutions to how we disassemble our nation, and reassemble it so it will work better need to not just address the past and present, but also the future. There's been no national debate on this at all, no engagement of the public, and really the Scottish experience shows where the shortfalls are. Mainly they lie in the political process itself, not the structure of government. I see no reason for the four component parts not to have their governments, or for England to retain its historic parliament eventually.

That has a proviso though. No changes will bear fruit without a clear out, the corruption ought to be tackled at source, outed, and when a new start is made things have a chance of improving. The Lords has to go, something more fit for purpose needs to be put in place, in a way that will not let in the extreme, and the country needs to be adequately educated (or deprogrammed) so they can make a proper choice. It's not without reason that history and civics don't get taught that well here. The average Asian school child has a better idea of the structure of government than many adults here. I still find it unnerving when people don't understand why the executive and judiciary need to be independent of each other. There are grownup people out there who don't understand why a prime minister cannot instruct a court on a verdict!

Scotland said no, and I know the yes voters came close enough to have genuine cause, still taking time to get things right is the right thing to do.

We need the space a Labour government could bring, time to normalise and heal a bit.

PS please, no independent Yorkshire unless you relish the idea of civil war.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 5:36 pm

Well that didn't take long...from AS

All three party leaders have been summoned to give evidence to a Commons committee, my colleague Rajeev Syal reports.

David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg have been invited to give evidence to parliament on proposals to give both Scotland and England more say over how they are run.

The invitations, from the political and constitutional reform select committee, will place all three main party leaders in a difficult position. Each will have to decide whether to be questioned or send a proxy speaker, leaving themselves open to accusations that they have run away from a crucial constitutional issue.

It is the first time that the committee has invited all three of the main political leaders to give evidence.

"So Mr Cameron, what made you think you could try and have this sorted before the election?"
"Erm...well...the fact of the matter is...er..."

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 5:40 pm

ephemerid wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
refitman wrote:Sounds like goodstuff from Rachel Reeves (from AS):http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... f407ad421a
You're right that is good. What we've always longer for here - to combine the criticism of the shambles with a more idealistic social justice line.

"We should be angry and they should be ashamed" really speaks to me.

It all sounds fine, but what is she actually going to DO?

I missed the speech, so I'd be grateful if someone could tell me.

I gather from Twitter that she said she would "come down hard" on any contractor who did not assess sick/disabled people "fairly".
What does than even mean?

If there was anything said about serious - and I'm thinking really serious - reform of the system then I'd love to hear it.

I'm off to my AA meeting now - where I can get my dose of sanity - and I'll pop in later to see of anyone can answer the above for me.

Toodlepip!

The contractors are a major part of the problem. Coming down hard on them doesn't even start to express what needs to be done. The system is clogged up with them, it's costing a fortune, a purge would be way cheaper.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 5:40 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Well that didn't take long...from AS

All three party leaders have been summoned to give evidence to a Commons committee, my colleague Rajeev Syal reports.

David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg have been invited to give evidence to parliament on proposals to give both Scotland and England more say over how they are run.

The invitations, from the political and constitutional reform select committee, will place all three main party leaders in a difficult position. Each will have to decide whether to be questioned or send a proxy speaker, leaving themselves open to accusations that they have run away from a crucial constitutional issue.

It is the first time that the committee has invited all three of the main political leaders to give evidence.
"So Mr Cameron, what made you think you could try and have this sorted before the election?"
"Erm...well...the fact of the matter is...er..."

"Crosby and Gidiot told me to".

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 5:42 pm

JustMom wrote:I can't face the Graun just lately,my blood pressure shoots up and it makes me so depressed. I have been diving in here instead.

Glad to hear it (the diving in here bit, not the Graun being depressing (which it is)). Welcome to FTN by the way. There's a cold buffet next door and bar's currently open with a happy hour (I recommend this week's guest ale, Hopback Summer Lightning).

Post by **letsskiptotheleft** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 5:47 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ngton.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For you railway buffs, lovely this.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 5:49 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Well that didn't take long...from AS

All three party leaders have been summoned to give evidence to a Commons committee, my colleague Rajeev Syal reports.

David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg have been invited to give evidence to parliament on proposals to give both Scotland and England more say over how they are run.

The invitations, from the political and constitutional reform select committee, will place all three main party leaders in a difficult position. Each will have to decide whether to be questioned or send a proxy speaker, leaving themselves open to accusations that they have run away from a crucial constitutional issue.

It is the first time that the committee has invited all three of the main political leaders to give evidence.
"So Mr Cameron, what made you think you could try and have this sorted before the election?"
"Erm...well...the fact of the matter is...er..."
"Crosby and Gidiot told me to".

They sound like really bad song writers.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 5:54 pm

letsskiptotheleft wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ngton.html

For you railway buffs, lovely this.

More of a Midland Railway man myself

but that's interesting.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 5:58 pm

The woman MP is my MP by the way, Heather Wheeler. She has zero experience of constitutional affairs so I conclude she has been hinting at a bit of UKIPpery.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 6:07 pm

Badgers are suffering 'cruel' deaths: Outrage over cull as female is found shot in abdomen
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/513910 ... UK+Feed%29
Concerns have again been raised about the humaneness of this year's organised slaughter after one animal took several days to die.

The omnivore - dubbed "badger 41" - was found just five days into this year's cull by patrollers in Somerset, who took the injured creature to the Secret World Wildlife Rescue Centre.

Vets later confirmed that the badger had been shot in the abdomen, rather than the target chest area which delivers a quick kill, and most likely died a slow, painful death from her injuries.

Mark Jones, vet and executive director at Humane Society International/UK, said: "The discovery of badger 41 confirms our worst fears about the horrendous animal suffering the so-called trained badger cull marksmen will be inflicting.

"Shooting badgers in the abdomen will likely result in those animals taking a considerable time to die...

A spokesman for the National Farmers' Union said that there was "no evidence" to suggest that this badger was killed as part of the cull.

He said: "We would suggest that it is handed over to the proper authorities in order that they can do a post-mortem examination to determine the cause of death.

Take it from me - this poor badger was very definitely killed as part of the cull. And also that a very thorough post mortem will have already been done - as was the case last year with the badgers recovered which had suffered horrendous deaths.

Meanwhile we hear that the culling companies are trying to call in more shooters because they are - yet again - failing so miserably in their killing spree.

TechnicalEphemera · Post by **TechnicalEphemera** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 6:08 pm

Just heard Tim Farron fielding don't you agree with EV4EL shit from Tory wanker Peter Allen on five live.

He basically said fine, but only after we devolve power to the regions. Said it wasn't acceptable that a bunch of Tories in the South East got to rule the North.

LadyCentauria · Post by **LadyCentauria** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 6:09 pm

ohsocynical wrote:Just back from hitting a few charity shops...

Let no one convince you times are getting better. It's pretty obvious that slightly better off families off are the ones that keep donations ticking over.

Today, I was shocked by how little stock a couple of shops had, and although this was my first visit in over a month, I recognised stuff sitting on the shelves from the last time.
It easily compares to how I remember the last recession and there is absolutely no sign of things getting better.

Pretty much the same around here, ohso. Shocked me, recently, that many were so low on stock. The Mind shop seems to have a good turnover of items, though; they also have pretty regular everything-half-price days, which seems to help and certainly helps people with near-empty purses. A fair few of our seven local charity shops seem to think they are bijoux vintage boutiques, with prices to match. Someone must have been able to afford £85 for a pair of high-heeled ankle-boots. last week. Wish it had been me, though – they were gorgeous...

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 6:17 pm

RR2, about the revised badger statistics.... It a damning story, I kept wondering who profited from it all. Perhaps because as an artist I know what happens elsewhere to demised badgers. I'll freely admit to not keeping a close eye on figures, I'm a visual thinker, and find it all very disturbing. Globally there's a big trade and potentially a lot of profit. How does this story impact on this years cull? It seems far fetched that it was a mistake, computers act on the data you give them, they don't randomly generate their own. Some one did the inputting, and it's usually obvious when there are huge discrepancies.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 6:19 pm

TechnicalEphemera wrote:Just heard Tim Farron fielding don't you agree with EV4EL shit from Tory wanker Peter Allen on five live.

He basically said fine, but only after we devolve power to the regions. Said it wasn't acceptable that a bunch of Tories in the South East got to rule the North.

Christ - I find myself agreeing with him. Quelle horreur.

The EV4EL business is the biggest pile of shit yet promulgated on the back of the vote on the 18th. The West Lothian question is *irrelevant* if you accept that Westminster is the national parliament. Full stop. That's it. What's more, once you start excluding democratically elected MPs from votes in a parliament that they were elected to, where do you stop? HS2: OK, any MP whose constituency isn't directly affected by HS2 may no longer vote on the matter.

And on and on it goes. The whole nonsense about EV4EL is simply last gasp gerrymandering. Have an English parliament? No, fuck off - why should the north's fate be decided by southern MPs whose interests may well be diametrically opposed to those of the people living in the north.

I stated my position a day or so back: a UK parliament as we have now passing umbrella national legislation. English regional assemblies - democratically elected - that can vary the bills passed, plus have additional powers over tax, spend, health, investment, etc, etc. Job's a good 'un.

Why wouldn't it work?

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 6:33 pm

ErnstRemarx wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote:Just heard Tim Farron fielding don't you agree with EV4EL shit from Tory wanker Peter Allen on five live.

He basically said fine, but only after we devolve power to the regions. Said it wasn't acceptable that a bunch of Tories in the South East got to rule the North.
Christ - I find myself agreeing with him. Quelle horreur.

The EV4EL business is the biggest pile of shit yet promulgated on the back of the vote on the 18th. The West Lothian question is *irrelevant* if you accept that Westminster is the national parliament. Full stop. That's it. What's more, once you start excluding democratically elected MPs from votes in a parliament that they were elected to, where do you stop? HS2: OK, any MP whose constituency isn't directly affected by HS2 may no longer vote on the matter.

And on and on it goes. The whole nonsense about EV4EL is simply last gasp gerrymandering. Have an English parliament? No, fuck off - why should the north's fate be decided by southern MPs whose interests may well be diametrically opposed to those of the people living in the north.

I stated my position a day or so back: a UK parliament as we have now passing umbrella national legislation. English regional assemblies - democratically elected - that can vary the bills passed, plus have additional powers over tax, spend, health, investment, etc, etc. Job's a good 'un.

Why wouldn't it work?

.

Regional assemblies, yes, but don't let them be dressed as parliaments, they'll be expected to sink or swim alone. There's been enough larceny already.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 6:36 pm

Goodnight, everyone.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 22 Sep, 2014 6:36 pm

seeingclearly wrote:RR2, about the revised badger statistics.... It a damning story, I kept wondering who profited from it all. Perhaps because as an artist I know what happens elsewhere to demised badgers. I'll freely admit to not keeping a close eye on figures, I'm a visual thinker, and find it all very disturbing. Globally there's a big trade and potentially a lot of profit. How does this story impact on this years cull? It seems far fetched that it was a mistake, computers act on the data you give them, they don't randomly generate their own. Some one did the inputting, and it's usually obvious when there are huge discrepancies.

The IT systems at Defra are in utter chaos and have been for about 3 years now. We lived with no statistics being produced for over a year and then we started to get them from their new 'SAM' system - but in restricted form so much less useful than before. Then they had to admit they were hideously wrong - twice - and now we've just had another admission they are wrong again - yet another retrospective revision downwards.

It's all part of Defra being totally unfit for purpose. Totally infiltrated and politicised - like every other govt dept these days. And not helped by Spelman offering up massive budget cuts at Defra when she was SoS there - in a bid to cosy up to Dave. Fat lot of good that did her.

The blinkered zeal for badger culling has nothing to do with TB IMO - there is so much evidence that it doesn't work, isn't worthwhile and could actually make it worse. It is about a certain type of landowner wanting to be able to kill whatever they want to wherever they want to on their land ... The mythical narrative that is put out all the time about badgers and TB spiralling out of control is - similar to IDS and his families where no one in several generations has ever worked - something that is perpetuated in order to hang the bloodlust on. You only have to be on the ground in the cull zones to see how few of the farms, land holdings have any cattle. It is extraordinary that we have never even seen a milk lorry in the lanes in all our time there. It's pheasants, horses, fruit farms in the main. Shame on them for participating.

The TB stats and their gross overestimation were very convenient. Incompetence working in the killers favour.

Rant over. I am now a firm believer in direct action. It is immensely satisfying to actually do something about it.