Christmas Bank Holiday Weekend: 26, 27 & 28th December

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 6:55 pm

Briefcase Michael ‏@BriefcaseMike 2 hrs2 hours ago

Rumours that Dodgy Dave is being treated for Repetitive Strain Injury after hours of pointing pointlessly at flood water. #flooding

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 6:56 pm

: water-of-lifeglass1.jpg (40.65 KiB) Viewed 6332 times

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 6:59 pm

citizenJA wrote:
water-of-lifeglass1.jpg

Stunning.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 7:02 pm

: Ukip Tories On Flood Prevention.jpg (57.56 KiB) Viewed 6328 times

Owain Gardner ‏@Odbe34 15m15 minutes ago
Just to make doubly sure we're all on the same page re: #flooding http://politicalscrapbook.net/2014/02/t ... arliament/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 7:06 pm

: water of life11.jpg (75.55 KiB) Viewed 6325 times

Vordy · Post by **Vordy** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 7:09 pm

Hi all,I posted a topic and it went here if you would like to read it.Have to fly,am busy as a carer and hope to see you all again soon.

http://flythenest.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=741" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 7:19 pm

ohsocynical wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
water-of-lifeglass1.jpg

Stunning.

Oh, thank you! Exactly how I felt when I first saw it!
I've rarely seen anything as beautiful in my life.
The sculptor is Stephen Broadbent

"From the beginning I suppose I’ve always loved simply making things, and
this was nurtured through my schooling in Liverpool and the teaching of a
former silversmith Mr Hickman, who instilled in me a love of materials and
craft process, and a vision to become a silversmith myself."

- Stephen Broadbent

http://sbal.co.uk/who_we_are/#stephen_broadbent" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Look at that Jesus! She's magnificent as well...he always did get on well with women

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 7:24 pm

citizenJA wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
water-of-lifeglass1.jpg

Stunning.
Oh, thank you! Exactly how I felt when I first saw it!
I've rarely seen anything as beautiful in my life.
The sculptor is Stephen Broadbent

"From the beginning I suppose I’ve always loved simply making things, and
this was nurtured through my schooling in Liverpool and the teaching of a
former silversmith Mr Hickman, who instilled in me a love of materials and
craft process, and a vision to become a silversmith myself."

- Stephen Broadbent

http://sbal.co.uk/who_we_are/#stephen_broadbent" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Look at that Jesus! She's magnificent as well...he always did get on well with women

I was intrigued by the little I could see in your avatar - and the complete image certainly doesn't disappoint. I can understand why it captured your eye and thoughts.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 7:30 pm

My husband and I sometimes just stare awe-struck
Downloaded images from the Internet or 'in person'
It an incredibly photogenic piece of sculpture
I swear their expressions change

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 7:35 pm

I'm staggered by the estimated cost of repairing / reinstating after the damage from the floods at 5bn plus - and that probably doesn't cover many of the costs and assets that householders and businesses won't be able to recoup.

Some of the estimates done by KPMG and others are saying that the loss of business activity will probably also result in lower growth / receipts for the economy. Nice one Osborne - your cuts end up costing a hell of a lot more yet again.

And why aren't the presenters and commentators pointing out that the new Flood Re insurance scheme that will operate from next April to ensure there is cover for those in flood prone areas won't be available to businesses. How do businesses in York, Leeds, Kendal and other such places manage to afford vastly increased premiums on top of everything else?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 7:42 pm

type this into an Internet search engine
water of life Chester cathedral sculpture images
achingly beautiful

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 7:42 pm

A bit Kettle-ish, but...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... tims-north" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 7:44 pm

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 812%29.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 7:45 pm

Vordy wrote:Hi all,I posted a topic and it went here if you would like to read it.Have to fly,am busy as a carer and hope to see you all again soon.

http://flythenest.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=741" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good read, Vordy. Ta muchly.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 7:46 pm

: CXVP6vYWMAAZopQ.png (53.4 KiB) Viewed 6299 times

Éoin ‏@LabourEoin 1 hr1 hour ago

Today, Cameron tried to deflect his cuts to Flood Defence funding by citing £ per head. So, I went & researched that

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 8:46 pm

It seems from this that there's some funding that doesn't go through DEFRA.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... c_2015.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If I've understood it correctly, the money that doesn't come through DEFRA is the extra stumped up after the 2013/4 floods.

That could change the regional figures a fair bit.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 8:51 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:I'm staggered by the estimated cost of repairing / reinstating after the damage from the floods at 5bn plus - and that probably doesn't cover many of the costs and assets that householders and businesses won't be able to recoup.

Some of the estimates done by KPMG and others are saying that the loss of business activity will probably also result in lower growth / receipts for the economy. Nice one Osborne - your cuts end up costing a hell of a lot more yet again.

And why aren't the presenters and commentators pointing out that the new Flood Re insurance scheme that will operate from next April to ensure there is cover for those in flood prone areas won't be available to businesses. How do businesses in York, Leeds, Kendal and other such places manage to afford vastly increased premiums on top of everything else?

Repair costs are economic activity contributing to growth unless Tory government has decided to use other means to measure GDP which I wouldn't put past them even if it makes them global outcasts.
Who pays the repair costs?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 8:54 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:It seems from this that there's some funding that doesn't go through DEFRA.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... c_2015.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If I've understood it correctly, the money that doesn't come through DEFRA is the extra stumped up after the 2013/4 floods.

That could change the regional figures a fair bit.

Wait.
Please read this if you've not seen it yet.

UK flood prevention: the missing billion
Monday, 28 December 2015
Simon Wren-Lewis

http://mainlymacro.blogspot.de/2015/12/ ... llion.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 8:55 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:It seems from this that there's some funding that doesn't go through DEFRA.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... c_2015.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If I've understood it correctly, the money that doesn't come through DEFRA is the extra stumped up after the 2013/4 floods.

That could change the regional figures a fair bit.

Wasn't that for making good the damage ... and providing emergency support to affected families? I thought I read earlier that the ONS keeps this out of the annual spend stats - separate - because of that? Or have I got it wrong?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 8:55 pm

citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:I'm staggered by the estimated cost of repairing / reinstating after the damage from the floods at 5bn plus - and that probably doesn't cover many of the costs and assets that householders and businesses won't be able to recoup.

Some of the estimates done by KPMG and others are saying that the loss of business activity will probably also result in lower growth / receipts for the economy. Nice one Osborne - your cuts end up costing a hell of a lot more yet again.

And why aren't the presenters and commentators pointing out that the new Flood Re insurance scheme that will operate from next April to ensure there is cover for those in flood prone areas won't be available to businesses. How do businesses in York, Leeds, Kendal and other such places manage to afford vastly increased premiums on top of everything else?
Repair costs are economic activity contributing to growth unless Tory government has decided to use other means to measure GDP which I wouldn't put past them even if it makes them global outcasts.
Who pays the repair costs?

Probably a "one off loan" to the Environment Agency, as the DfT did to Network Rail when they're budget was shot. I'm assuming this is some way of keeping debt off the books.

Assuming that LAs don't have to pay for it.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 9:02 pm

Premier Inn refuses homeless man bed for Christmas
https://tompride.wordpress.com/2015/12/ ... christmas/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 9:04 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:A bit Kettle-ish, but...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... tims-north" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"With the arrival of serious flooding in larger cities such as Leeds, however, the stakes
have got much higher. Not only does the flooding of cities affect far more people, it
also threatens to make a mockery of things that hold a nation together, like transport
and essential services."

Gee, ya' think so?

edited to add that I intend no disparagement toward the your linking this article, Paul,
thank you for doing so, it's great, I'm being snarky toward Martin who's making an
excellent point.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 9:11 pm

Getting differring accounts about that story,given it is the default establishment to actually house the homeless,I am tending towards caution before castigation.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 9:12 pm

"What is new is that flood prevention has become a national economic and societal priority
to a previously unimagined degree. The scale and repeated nature of the recent damage
require it. The need reaches everywhere that the waters have reached, and beyond. But
there is only one agency that can grip the task decisively, fairly and in the shared interest –
and that is the state. Nothing else can do this. No one else has the money or authority.
So flood prevention has become a test of the credibility not just of this government but
of the British government in general."

- Martin Kettle
today, Guardian

Yes, thank you very much indeed.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 9:14 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:I'm staggered by the estimated cost of repairing / reinstating after the damage from the floods at 5bn plus - and that probably doesn't cover many of the costs and assets that householders and businesses won't be able to recoup.

Some of the estimates done by KPMG and others are saying that the loss of business activity will probably also result in lower growth / receipts for the economy. Nice one Osborne - your cuts end up costing a hell of a lot more yet again.

And why aren't the presenters and commentators pointing out that the new Flood Re insurance scheme that will operate from next April to ensure there is cover for those in flood prone areas won't be available to businesses. How do businesses in York, Leeds, Kendal and other such places manage to afford vastly increased premiums on top of everything else?
Repair costs are economic activity contributing to growth unless Tory government has decided to use other means to measure GDP which I wouldn't put past them even if it makes them global outcasts.
Who pays the repair costs?
Probably a "one off loan" to the Environment Agency, as the DfT did to Network Rail when they're budget was shot. I'm assuming this is some way of keeping debt off the books.

Assuming that LAs don't have to pay for it.

The homes, who's going to refurbish all the dwellings and who's going to pay for that?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 9:57 pm

"But it’s almost as important that it is our country, northern England, where this is
happening, though perhaps it just doesn’t feel like that in Chelsea or Shoreditch.
This is a test of national solidarity as well as government."

Is there some doubt the floods happening in the UK aren't UK floods? Are others living in
the UK in different places people unable to identify with the people living in York, Appleby
or Mytholmroyd, for example? Do some consider this to be 'elsewhere, sad, what else is on tv..'?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 10:06 pm

Shoreditch?

Nearly half of all children in two London constituencies are living in poverty, according to new data from the Campaign to End Child Poverty. 49% of children in Bethnal Green and Bow, and Poplar and Limehouse, live in households below the poverty line once housing costs are taken into consideration.
Half of the UK constituencies with the highest rates of child poverty are in London (the others are: Edmonton, Westminster North, Tottenham, Hackney South and Shoreditch, East Ham, Hackney North and Stoke Newington, West Ham and Brent Central), and the three local authorities with the highest rates of child poverty are also here: Tower Hamlets (49%), Hackney (41%) and Newham (41%).

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 10:38 pm

I don't suppose our illustrious press will shift its arse and interview some of the residents who were flood victims in the South and West, to see just how much or how little the government helped them get straight.

The silence is deafening.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 10:42 pm

: CXTA0VOWkAACQAx.jpg (97.89 KiB) Viewed 6185 times

I'd heard this earlier and thought it was a joke.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 11:13 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... properties" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Consultation on higher rates of Stamp Duty Land Tax (SDLT) on purchases of additional residential properties

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 11:18 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... us-studies" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Guidance
GCSE religious studies

Revised due to legal ruling.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 11:24 pm

amol rajan ‏@amolrajan 43m43 minutes ago
+++ @Independent EXCLUSIVE by Pol Ed @oliver_wright: @jeremycorbyn CHALLENGES @David_Cameron TO ANNUAL TV DEBATE +++

Well that's a novel idea ... according to the bit I can read Farron has said he would participate. Can't see Cameron accepting. Nor can I see Osborne, if he becomes Tory leader, coming over well in a live debate.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 11:27 pm

We have our fierce winds and torrential rain back... Supposed to be OK tomorrow and then the hatches need to be battened down for tomorrow night. I hope it's not as bad as they are predicting ... people and the land need a break.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 11:29 pm

Michael Rosen ‏@MichaelRosenYes 10h10 hours ago
Give Cameron a day or two and he'll 'explain' the the northern floods show that the Christian God creates conditions for people to be kind.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 11:39 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... us-studies

Guidance
GCSE religious studies

Revised due to legal ruling.

Not my area but I couldn't reconcile the spin that Morgan was putting on this with the content of your link.

Schools must teach children that Britain is a Christian country

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religio ... untry.html

Schools must teach pupils that Britain is a Christian country and are entitled to prioritise the views of established religions over atheism, the Education Secretary has said.

Nicky Morgan, the Education Secretary, today publishes new guidance to non-faith schools which makes clear that they do not need to give "equal parity" to non-religious views.

But when you look at the GCSE content it says this:

Subject aims and learning outcomes
3. GCSE specifications in religious studies should:
• develop students’ knowledge and understanding of religions and non-religious beliefs, such as atheism and humanism

Which to me says that they do need to give equal parity to non-religious views.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 11:43 pm

There's a classic bit Morgan SPAD in that DT article.

A source close to Mrs Morgan said: “Nicky has had enough of campaign groups using the Courts to try and force the teaching of atheism and humanism to kids against parent’s wishes.
"That’s why she’s taking a stand to protect the right of schools to prioritise the teaching of Christianity and other major religions.”

Some stand!

Anyway, when did parents say they didn't want humanism and atheism?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 28 Dec, 2015 11:49 pm

ohsocynical wrote:I don't suppose our illustrious press will shift its arse and interview some of the residents who were flood victims in the South and West, to see just how much or how little the government helped them get straight.

The silence is deafening.

There have been some comments on the Guardian floods live blog suggesting Somerset got a better response from the government last year than the North is currently getting. It's so depressing to realise how little real information is being disseminated by our modern media. The whole point about the story about the Somerset floods was that in 2012 Cameron promised this, that and the other in response to the summer floods of that year. For the rest of 2012 and throughout 2013 local councils (many Tory) and various individuals chased up these promises, none of which were actually fulfilled. In January 2014 heavy rains caused widespread flooding that simply didn't recede. The A361 near Taunton was closed for months. People were angry because the 2012 floods had been a warning to what could happen, it was established what action was needed and Cameron promised that action, only for it not to happen. It was only because a village was cut off for a month that Cameron was finally embarrassed into doing anything at all, about a year and half too late. In other words, you can't base a judgement of Cameron's response to floods anywhere in the UK on what he says. What he says will happen has very little relation to what actually happens, especially when there isn't a General Election coming up in the near future. This North/South antagonism is a dangerous distraction from the very real problem that, as far as I can see, is that this government is repeatedly failing everyone.

At the end of the day, there are some things that can't be prevented. What people need is open and honest communication from the government about what they are and are not prepared to do and spend. The slight of hand, the smoke and mirrors about levels of spending, the cancelled schemes, the promises in front of the cameras that are dropped as soon as the media leaves, the failure to extend or replace the insurance scheme negotiated by the previous government - these are the things that ultimately this government will have to take responsibility for, however "unprecedented" the natural event.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 29 Dec, 2015 12:01 am

So what exactly would he be able to do?

Gotta love Tories when they come out with the "you're playing politics with this!" when they do nothing else usually.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 29 Dec, 2015 12:05 am

@ Willow904
Yes, excellent point about media's sensationalism and outright false information published as news and the frailty of human memory. If I didn't document information, I'd not remember what happened correctly. That's the human condition, I accept. Doesn't let media off the hook. Don't call information news and attempt to fob it off as factual when it's anything but.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 29 Dec, 2015 12:07 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:

So what exactly would he be able to do?

Gotta love Tories when they come out with the "you're playing politics with this!" when they do nothing else usually.

It's reprehensible, I've no patience for it. How dare you, Young.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 29 Dec, 2015 12:08 am

I'm tired and aching, friends, thank you for keeping me good company.
I love you.
cJA