Tuesday 5th January 2016

Post by **refitman** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 7:10 am

Morning all.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 7:42 am

Hunt's letter to BMA

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... of-the-bma" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He is on the Today programme about 8.30.

Morning.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 7:44 am

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rob the poor and give to the rich – housing policy for 2016
Aditya Chakrabortty

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 7:53 am

RobertSnozers wrote:Morning. Wonder if Sparrow et al are regretting running a pointless liveblog into the evening featuring such gems as 'Chris Bryant is going to the gym' and 'Maria Eagle looks like she might be unhappy'

Maybe all down to predictive texting,
starting something like:-
"re:penge souffle, Jeremy making final decision Monday"
Would explain heated discussions, better.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 8:14 am

Revenge,purge,bloodbath,elimination/ change of a couple of personnel(maybe)not as radical as we have been ~~propagandising relentlessly~~ led to believe.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 8:19 am

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Writing an anti-cycling column? Maybe read this first
Are you about to make sweeping generalisations about a mass of people? Have you mistaken north London for the whole of the UK? We’re here to help.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 8:27 am

No Laura,you lot whipped up the nonsense with the gossipy rent a quotes,stop portraying otherwise as a Corbyn supporter myth,I am not,it was.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 8:39 am

HindleA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... are_btn_tw

Rob the poor and give to the rich – housing policy for 2016
Aditya Chakrabortty

Thanks, A.

Aditya makes the point - as we have here - that this ridiculous piece of legislation seems to be passing the media by while they obsess over whether people are looking upset after meetings with Corbyn......

I knew about the imposition of "market rents" (or "pay to stay") but I didn't know that the income the calculations for this will be based on is not current income but the previous years' income. A tenant could have been made redundant in the interim but still have to pay more rent than his neighbour - if anything is guaranteed to stop people looking for well-paid work it's this.
Suppose you live in London. If you're on the average wage of £26,000 PA, paying the "normal" council rent for your home at about £150PW, but get offered a new job for £30,000 PA. would you take the job knowing that your rent could go up to more than double that? Worse, you could take a rise in pay for now - but be hammered the following year. Madness.
This government drones on about "perverse incentives" but invents new ones on an almost daily basis.

An "affordable" home for purchase is now £450,000 in London and £250,000 elsewhere. To buy a starter home in London a buyer will need an income of more than £70,000 PA and a deposit of £90K-plus.
Elsewhere, the figures are an annual income of at least £30,000 and a deposit of £40K. The national average salary is £27K (ONS).
These so-called affordable starter homes are beyond the reach of most.

I despair sometimes.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 9:23 am

Oh Righteous Citizen,join us,the deemed lesser need not apply;beware though taking the bribe or having to will not inure you,should you choose to become ill/disabled,you will be thrown back or the State will retrieve your assets with interest and a charge for failure.SegreTory R'Us

Post by **refitman** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 9:26 am

Apparently "Corbyn's paymasters* told him not to sack Benn"?!

*I don't know either

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 9:29 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/ ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

'Scandalous neglect' of elderly sees soaring numbers rushed from care homes to hospital
New figures show the number of care home residents rushed to hospital has risen by 63 per cent in four years, with charities warning that cutbacks mean pensioners are being neglected until they become perilously ill

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 9:37 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In 1957 the singer, actor and civil rights activist Paul Robeson in 1957 performed a concert to an audience sitting in St Pancras Town Hall in London. Astonishingly, Paul Robeson was in New York at the time, and he was performing live over a transatlantic phone line.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 9:44 am

It's going to be a long, long day. Morning all!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 9:48 am

Morning.

Poles hint at deal on PM's benefit curb in return for Nato troops in central Europe in welcome compromise for David Cameron
Poland could accept British demands for curb on EU migrant benefits
David Cameron wants four-year delay on in-work benefits for foreigners
Prime Minister has made welfare reform a key pledge in EU referendum
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... meron.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This smacks of something that won't turn out to be as it seems ... i.e. probably won't make a jot of difference. But more concerning is the stuff towards the bottom of the article about why, historically, there haven't been many Nato installations and troops in former Warsaw pact countries .... Dave dabbling in daft things again.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 9:51 am

StephenDolan wrote:It's going to be a long, long day. Morning all!

Certainly is. Woke realising that my memory of Jess Phillips declaring she'd like a shot at being leader of the party in the future wasn't a bad dream. She actually did say that in her Newsnight interview.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:02 am

So Cameron is forced to let cabinet ministers campaign as they want re In or Out of the EU referendum.

Going to be interesting to see who is active in what.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:03 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:It's going to be a long, long day. Morning all!
Certainly is. Woke realising that my memory of Jess Phillips declaring she'd like a shot at being leader of the party in the future wasn't a bad dream. She actually did say that in her Newsnight interview.

Which party?

Good-morning, everyone.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:06 am

http://linkis.com/www.theguardian.com/5eG3q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Planned closure of special needs school in Bristol sparks anger
Families forced to seek alternative places for children after St Christopher’s residential school announces it is to shut due to high costs and fall in referrals

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:07 am

Michael Dugher MP ‏@MichaelDugher 3m3 minutes ago
Just been sacked by Jeremy Corbyn. I wished him a happy new year.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:12 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Michael Dugher MP ‏@MichaelDugher 3m3 minutes ago
Just been sacked by Jeremy Corbyn. I wished him a happy new year.

So those "shadow minister sources" will be missing a member.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:14 am

StephenDolan wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Michael Dugher MP ‏@MichaelDugher 3m3 minutes ago
Just been sacked by Jeremy Corbyn. I wished him a happy new year.
So those "shadow minister sources" will be missing a member.

I'm beginning to wonder if there is a dangerous sect in the PLP who communicate with each other and the media by tweeting pictures of their dinners.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:15 am

Sophy Ridge ‏@SophyRidgeSky 2m2 minutes ago
Sophy Ridge Retweeted Michael Dugher MP
Michael Dugher recently spoke out about a "revenge reshuffle" which would turn Labour into a "religious cult"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:16 am

Apparently the purge has begun should we be wary of ice-picks?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:17 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Michael Dugher MP ‏@MichaelDugher 3m3 minutes ago
Just been sacked by Jeremy Corbyn. I wished him a happy new year.

Not much of a 'reshuffle', more a sacked shadow minister.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:18 am

Toby Perkins ‏@tobyperkinsmp 3m3 minutes ago
Toby Perkins Retweeted BBC Breaking News
This is unbelievable lack of leadership -by far most important political announcement there'll be today.

BBC Breaking NewsVerified account
‏@BBCBreaking
David Cameron to announce that UK ministers will be allowed to campaign for either side ahead of the EU referendum http://bbc.in/1Re2uHY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe Cameron is hoping the media will fail to recognise that in their zeal to furnish us with wall to wall Corbyn revenge reshuffle maniasplat.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:25 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Sophy Ridge ‏@SophyRidgeSky 2m2 minutes ago
Sophy Ridge Retweeted Michael Dugher MP
Michael Dugher recently spoke out about a "revenge reshuffle" which would turn Labour into a "religious cult"

Like hell Dugher did!
I read that jackass article the other day - nowhere does Dugher say that!

Michael Dugher...told BBC 5 Live’s Pienaar’s Politics programme that previous Labour leaders
he had worked closely with had been reluctant to “go down the path of big reshuffles”.

“They do try and hold the party together, they do recognise that the Labour party is a broad
church, not a religious cult, that you need people of different backgrounds and try and get
the best possible talents,” Dugher said, adding that “ultimately [the makeup of the shadow
cabinet] will be a decision for Jeremy”.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... gious-cult" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:25 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:It's going to be a long, long day. Morning all!
Certainly is. Woke realising that my memory of Jess Phillips declaring she'd like a shot at being leader of the party in the future wasn't a bad dream. She actually did say that in her Newsnight interview.

She really should learn from what has happened to Danczuk.

The MSM who currently "adore" you in reality just see you as a useful idiot, Jess. The sooner you wake up to this, the better.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:27 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Toby Perkins ‏@tobyperkinsmp 3m3 minutes ago
Toby Perkins Retweeted BBC Breaking News
This is unbelievable lack of leadership -by far most important political announcement there'll be today.

BBC Breaking NewsVerified account
‏@BBCBreaking
David Cameron to announce that UK ministers will be allowed to campaign for either side ahead of the EU referendum http://bbc.in/1Re2uHY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Maybe Cameron is hoping the media will fail to recognise that in their zeal to furnish us with wall to wall Corbyn revenge reshuffle maniasplat.

My only question is it threats, bribery or both.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:29 am

HindleA wrote:Apparently the purge has begun should we be wary of ice-picks?

Only when it's a Tory holding it - no hidden meaning in my advice, when I write Tories, I mean Tories.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:39 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
So those "shadow minister sources" will be missing a member.
I'm beginning to wonder if there is a dangerous sect in the PLP who communicate with each other and the media by tweeting pictures of their dinners.

We've presently 231 Parliamentary Labour party members
Let's make friends with each one and find out.
~~I'm not getting friendly with Danczuk, someone else gotta do it~~

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:43 am

So - here is the news.

There isn't any news - there is gossip, innuendo, sulking, flouncing, lies, stupidity, and more. And that's just the meeja.

Apparently, Jess Phillips, a potty-mouthed MP of just a few months' standing, is "influential". Apparently, an Eagle "looks cross".
Someone has lost a "job" in a re-shuffle of a cabinet not in office which is what always happens when a cabinet is re-shuffled.
OGRPPFGTCC is "allowing" grown adults to campaign as they choose and possibly considering special rules for Polish people.

It's all going on.

Meanwhile - doctors are going on strike for the first time in 40 years; council housing is about to be abolished and the alternative is unaffordable to the majority; people with flooded homes and businesses continue to mop up infected water knowing that help may not be forthcoming for some time and then only when charities get involved; and this government is busy creating the underclass it wants all the rest of us to despise whist pretending that we are not the underclass if we "dotherightthingworkhardbemarrieddon'tclaimbenefitsetc".

No news.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:47 am

StephenDolan wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Michael Dugher MP ‏@MichaelDugher 3m3 minutes ago
Just been sacked by Jeremy Corbyn. I wished him a happy new year.
So those "shadow minister sources" will be missing a member.

Is this true? I like Dugher, I'll grieve if it's true. It's a bad thing - unprofessional and antithetical to a democratic socialist party.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:47 am

citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
StephenDolan wrote: So those "shadow minister sources" will be missing a member.
I'm beginning to wonder if there is a dangerous sect in the PLP who communicate with each other and the media by tweeting pictures of their dinners.
We've presently 231 Parliamentary Labour party members
Let's make friends with each one and find out.
I'm not getting friendly with Danczuk, someone else gotta do it

SD is not currently a member of the PLP

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:50 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: I'm beginning to wonder if there is a dangerous sect in the PLP who communicate with each other and the media by tweeting pictures of their dinners.
We've presently 231 Parliamentary Labour party members
Let's make friends with each one and find out.
I'm not getting friendly with Danczuk, someone else gotta do it
SD is not currently a member of the PLP

I like the use of currently

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:53 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: I'm beginning to wonder if there is a dangerous sect in the PLP who communicate with each other and the media by tweeting pictures of their dinners.
We've presently 231 Parliamentary Labour party members
Let's make friends with each one and find out.
I'm not getting friendly with Danczuk, someone else gotta do it
SD is not currently a member of the PLP

Apologies for my ignorance about suspension consequences. He's still an MP. Not Labour.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 10:59 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:So Cameron is forced to let cabinet ministers campaign as they want re In or Out of the EU referendum.

Going to be interesting to see who is active in what.

We can't pay attention to that, it'll interfere with all the time we must spend reading and discussing reports on Labour reshuffles, stern looks, significant smiles and former Labour whatevers.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 11:05 am

citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
citizenJA wrote: We've presently 231 Parliamentary Labour party members
Let's make friends with each one and find out.
I'm not getting friendly with Danczuk, someone else gotta do it
SD is not currently a member of the PLP
Apologies for my ignorance about suspension consequences. I hadn't realised this meant he's no longer an MP.

He is still - for now at least - an MP, just not now (and in the future?) a Labour one - even in name.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 11:09 am

Flood warnings for:
England and Wales
10:55am Tuesday 05 January 2016

There are currently no severe flood warnings, 22 warnings and 138 alerts in force at this location.

22 Flood warnings - flooding is expected. Immediate action required.
► 22 Flood warnings - flooding is expected. Immediate action required.
138 Flood alerts - flooding is possible. Be prepared.
► 138 Flood alerts - flooding is possible. Be prepared.
83 Warnings no longer in force - flood warnings and flood alerts removed in the last 24 hours.
► 83 Warnings no longer in force - flood warnings and flood alerts removed in the last 24 hours.

https://flood-warning-information.servi ... k/warnings" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Last night's warnings below:

Flood warnings for:
England and Wales
10:21pm Monday 04 January 2016

There are currently no severe flood warnings, 26 warnings and 160 alerts in force at this location.
26 Flood warnings - flooding is expected. Immediate action required.
► 26 Flood warnings - flooding is expected. Immediate action required.
160 Flood alerts - flooding is possible. Be prepared.
► 160 Flood alerts - flooding is possible. Be prepared.
75 Warnings no longer in force - flood warnings and flood alerts removed in the last 24 hours.
► 75 Warnings no longer in force - flood warnings and flood alerts removed in the last 24 hours.

Flooding and weather havoc continue regardless of what the media reports.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 11:13 am

Correct, I understand, AK, thank you for your help.
He's been suspended from the Labour party, he's still and elected MP.

Vordy · Post by **Vordy** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 11:16 am

Good Morning All.Another piece on propaganda,I am trying to find methods in counter-propaganda.We are lied to daily,its on the news,it must be true.Bah,Humbug.

Propaganda techniques and how to counter them.

https://alcva.wordpress.com/2011/11/24/ ... nter-them/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **refitman** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 11:31 am

I have to say that, while I have been disappointed by some of his behaviour within the PLP, Dugher has been a good MP (he's mine). Even before I joined the Labour party, any correspondence with him was answered swiftly and fully.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 11:34 am

"Why should Corbyn or anyone give a shit about what
the papers say about what he is going to do until he
just does it when he says he is going to do it?"

- Bluthner

http://discussion.theguardian.com/comme ... k/66142390" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... t-66148388" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good post.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 11:39 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote: SD is not currently a member of the PLP
Apologies for my ignorance about suspension consequences. I hadn't realised this meant he's no longer an MP.
He is still - for now at least - an MP, just not now (and in the future?) a Labour one - even in name.

Is it possible that Farage will/has been in contact to discuss potential options?

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 11:40 am

I am cheered up by the news that Iolo Williams is doing a new series (number 3 in his "Welsh Safari") on BBC One Wales starting next Monday (it'll be on iPlayer later)

This time, he's in the Brecon Beacons, right on my doorstep. I am so lucky to live where do - it's an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty and Special Scientific Interest.
Just a few minutes' walk away, I can wander along the riverbank, and if I'm lucky I'll see otters; kingfishers and herons are standard; and birds of prey a daily sighting.

I like Iolo. He was once told by a producer on Springwatch to "tone down" his Welsh accent.

He didn't.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 11:45 am

Quite a few UKIPpers on social media saying that they don't want Danczuk now.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 11:48 am

ephemerid wrote:I am cheered up by the news that Iolo Williams is doing a new series (number 3 in his "Welsh Safari") on BBC One Wales starting next Monday (it'll be on iPlayer later)

This time, he's in the Brecon Beacons, right on my doorstep. I am so lucky to live where do - it's an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty and Special Scientific Interest.
Just a few minutes' walk away, I can wander along the riverbank, and if I'm lucky I'll see otters; kingfishers and herons are standard; and birds of prey a daily sighting.

I like Iolo. He was once told by a producer on Springwatch to "tone down" his Welsh accent.

He didn't.

I like Iolo too. He was a bit too hesitant in coming out against the Welsh Government / Plaid's plans for a badger cull here - thwarted thank goodness. But presume that was mainly BBC concerns - given what Chris Packham has had to put up with. We met him on Skomer a few years back filming for Springwatch - very unaffected and friendly.

I watched some of his wildlife series on S4C - in Welsh - found it pretty easy to follow because the wildlife action carries and explains it.

I'm currently listening to the lovely Welsh poet and folk musician on Radio 4 extolling the cultural richness of Aberteifi and surrounding area ... and translating the lovely poem inscribed on the quayside wall about hiraeth. Good stuff.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 11:50 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Quite a few UKIPpers on social media saying that they don't want Danczuk now.

Well quite. I think even Ukip would think twice about overtures whilst he's the subject of a police investigation and there's all the hoo ha still going on in the press.

And as for the Newsnight interview he gave yesterday... beyond belief.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 11:59 am

Zac Goldsmith accuses mayoral rival Sadiq Khan of 'playing race card'
Conservative London mayoral candidate makes claim after Labour rival objects to being described as ‘radical and divisive’ on election leaflets
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -race-card" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope this contest isn't going to get really nasty. Last thing needed in current times.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 12:10 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
StephenDolan wrote: So those "shadow minister sources" will be missing a member.
Is this true? I like Dugher, I'll grieve if it's true. It's a bad thing - unprofessional and antithetical to a democratic socialist party.
Andrew Sparrow's 11.25 update gives a pretty good overview of why Dugher is no longer in the shadow cabinet, and I don't think anyone reading it can really be surprised that his position in it became untenable. A bit of dissent and disagreement is one thing. Openly and frequently attacking the leadership and anyone who supports the leader in the media is quite another.

Regarding Danczuk, I have to say all the people crying foul over his suspension have very short memories. Back in November, Danczuk was crowing in the media that he could say what he liked and that punishing him would be contrary to the 'new politics'. His dissent was clearly so unacceptable that it took Corbyn two months to do anything about it.

I'm still wondering about the 'shadow minister' that was quoted / reported on Radio 4 yesterday. Hoping whoever it was will no longer be in the shadow cabinet.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Tue 05 Jan, 2016 12:28 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
citizenJA wrote: Is this true? I like Dugher, I'll grieve if it's true. It's a bad thing - unprofessional and antithetical to a democratic socialist party.
Andrew Sparrow's 11.25 update gives a pretty good overview of why Dugher is no longer in the shadow cabinet, and I don't think anyone reading it can really be surprised that his position in it became untenable. A bit of dissent and disagreement is one thing. Openly and frequently attacking the leadership and anyone who supports the leader in the media is quite another.

Regarding Danczuk, I have to say all the people crying foul over his suspension have very short memories. Back in November, Danczuk was crowing in the media that he could say what he liked and that punishing him would be contrary to the 'new politics'. His dissent was clearly so unacceptable that it took Corbyn two months to do anything about it.
I'm still wondering about the 'shadow minister' that was quoted / reported on Radio 4 yesterday. Hoping whoever it was will no longer be in the
shadow cabinet.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -reshuffle" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Labour's war of attrition must end - or the Tories will keep running amok"; says Owen Jones.

I couldn't agree more.