Monday 11th January 2016

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:27 am

Morning all.

I can't tell if this is a good read or the best clickbait article I've seen in a while.

"The best way for the EU to prevent Brexit is to start preparing for it, loudly"

It’s time for Europe to turn the tables on bullying Britain

http://gu.com/p/4fjnm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 6:32 am

Morning

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... hed-15-16/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Confusion "rife" over New State Pension, say MPs

The Work and Pensions Committee's report on the New State Pension

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... profession" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Teachers' unions unite to highlight 'national crisis' in profession

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 7:05 am

R.I.P.David Bowie,

mbc1955 · Post by **mbc1955** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 8:16 am

What? Oh, hell's bells, no.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 8:20 am

Corbyn on Radio 4 now

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 8:27 am

My earliest memory of David Bowie - as a 9 year old in 1969 & my dad had recorded the single 'Space Oddity' from the radio or TOTP on to a reel to reel tape recorder. I was off school 'poorly' on my own for a few hours in the house and blasting out the tape recording continuously at full volume until the neighbours got fed up and started banging on the wall in protest. I still have every album from then until 1983's 'Lets Dance' , I didn't really get into the stuff that came after that, but boy - what a legacy.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 8:30 am

Just go away you fatuous bandwagon jumper.

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TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 8:31 am

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yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 8:35 am

She's back.

Laura KuenssbergVerified account
‏@bbclaurak
Would Corbyn agree to drone strikes ? Says it's a hypothetical question and would want to see the evidence

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 8:53 am

Philippa Stroud-aaaaaaaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhhhhh

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 8:53 am

Utter,utter bollox.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 8:59 am

What's she been saying ?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:00 am

yahyah wrote:She's back.

Laura KuenssbergVerified account
‏@bbclaurak
Would Corbyn agree to drone strikes ? Says it's a hypothetical question and would want to see the evidence

Hypothetical evidence? Intriguing . . . .

Edited to add -

Or is the "hypothetical" and "evidence" bit Jeremy Corbyn's response?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:00 am

Good morfternoon.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:03 am

The same crap she always spouts,on Today,only a couple of minutes.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:03 am

I'm tethered to the logic of homo sapien
Can't take my eyes from the great salvation
Of bullshit faith

If I don't explain what you ought to know
You can tell me all about it on the next bardo
I'm sinking in the quicksand of my thought
And I ain't got the power anymore

Don't believe in yourself
Don't deceive with belief
Knowledge comes with death's release

[youtube]oP2SS8ggLtU[/youtube]

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:03 am

PorFavor wrote:
yahyah wrote:She's back.

Laura KuenssbergVerified account
‏@bbclaurak
Would Corbyn agree to drone strikes ? Says it's a hypothetical question and would want to see the evidence

Hypothetical evidence? Intriguing . . . .

If that's what he said it's the right - and possibly only answer. Drone strikes on what or who? When and why? What will it achieve?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:05 am

yahyah wrote:What's she been saying ?

Poverty's not really about money and inequality of opportunity yahyah - doncha know. We have to focus on addicted parents, who don't know how to parent properly ...

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:07 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
yahyah wrote:She's back.

Laura KuenssbergVerified account
‏@bbclaurak
Would Corbyn agree to drone strikes ? Says it's a hypothetical question and would want to see the evidence

Hypothetical evidence? Intriguing . . . .
If that's what he said it's the right - and possibly only answer. Drone strikes on what or who? When and why? What will it achieve?

Yes - I edited my post before I read yours!

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:11 am

MichaelWhite ‏@MichaelWhite 2m2 minutes ago
Jeremy Corbyn calm, articulate & confident ( interview delayed by Bowie spot) on R4 Today. Not sure his greater clarity is 100% a good idea

Sounds as though he was good. Didn't hear it as I was struggling with trying to get 3 dogs into coats and out into the torrential rain to have their morning pee and such .... they didn't want to get out there. Where's this dry, cold weather then?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:12 am

Look up here, I’m in heaven

I’ve got scars that can’t be seen

I’ve got drama, can’t be stolen

Everybody knows me now

This way or no way

You know, I’ll be free

Just like that bluebird

Now ain’t that just like me

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:12 am

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PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:13 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
MichaelWhite ‏@MichaelWhite 2m2 minutes ago
Jeremy Corbyn calm, articulate & confident ( interview delayed by Bowie spot) on R4 Today. Not sure his greater clarity is 100% a good idea
Sounds as though he was good. Didn't hear it as I was struggling with trying to get 3 dogs into coats and out into the torrential rain to have their morning pee and such .... they didn't want to get out there. Where's this dry, cold weather then?

Wet, cold weather not good enough for you, then? I dunno, some people . . . .

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:14 am

TobyLatimer wrote:
CYYtla7WEAA3bbq.jpg

Have to send that one to my sis - that'll cheer her up a bit. It's the fact Cameron clapped that delights me most. (Childish I know, but what the heck - it's the closest I'll get to custard pieing him).

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:15 am

PorFavor wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
MichaelWhite ‏@MichaelWhite 2m2 minutes ago
Jeremy Corbyn calm, articulate & confident ( interview delayed by Bowie spot) on R4 Today. Not sure his greater clarity is 100% a good idea
Sounds as though he was good. Didn't hear it as I was struggling with trying to get 3 dogs into coats and out into the torrential rain to have their morning pee and such .... they didn't want to get out there. Where's this dry, cold weather then?

Wet, cold weather not good enough for you, then? I dunno, some people . . . .

We are at peak squelch PF. I'd give almost anything for a bit of dry....

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:19 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote: Sounds as though he was good. Didn't hear it as I was struggling with trying to get 3 dogs into coats and out into the torrential rain to have their morning pee and such .... they didn't want to get out there. Where's this dry, cold weather then?

Wet, cold weather not good enough for you, then? I dunno, some people . . . .
We are at peak squelch PF. I'd give almost anything for a bit of dry....

I feel for you, I really do. Even here never a day goes by without at least one downpour of some duration or another. I thought I liked the sound of rain - but it's beginning to wear me down.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:21 am

Morning all.

Still stunned at the news of Bowie's passing. If you're going to go then a couple of days after the release of what might be your best album in a couple of decades then is one hell of a way to do it. I even changed my day at the library last week so I could go and pick it up on the day of release.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:22 am

Peak squelch.
Excellent description of the state of the land round here RR.

TobyLatimer · Post by **TobyLatimer** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:34 am

Benny Hill trumps Bowie every time

David Cameron's Desert Island Discs;

1. Bob Dylan – Tangled Up In Blue
2. Benny Hill – Ernie
3. Pink Floyd – Wish You Were Here
4. Felix Mendelssohn (performed by Kiri Te Kanawa) – O, For the Wings of a Dove
5. Radiohead – Fake Plastic Trees
6. The Smiths – This Charming Man
7. REM – Perfect Circle
8. The Killers – All These Things That I've Done

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 9:46 am

David Hencke Retweeted
Wladyslaw Mejka ‏@WladyslawMejka 18m18 minutes ago
@davidhencke - those who can't #live on £110K should be disqualified from any job which impacts directly on pay and lives of others

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 10:10 am

It’s time for Europe to turn the tables on bullying Britain
Joris Luyendijk
So far all the talk has been of David Cameron’s demands. But the EU would hold all the power in post-Brexit negotiations, so it should spell out how it would make an outgoing Britain suffer
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... cameron-eu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... So let us start talking now, out loud in Brussels as well as in Europe’s opinion pages and in national parliaments, about the offer we are going to make to the Scots, should they prefer Brussels to London in the event of Brexit. Let’s also discuss in which ways we are going to repatriate financial powers from London to the European mainland. It is strange enough that Europe’s financial centre lies outside the eurozone, but to have it outside the EU? That would be like placing Wall Street in Cuba...

His suggested strategy - Project Fear back to us with bells and hammers on it - sounds like a surefire recipe for Brexit to me. I'm sure even the Scots might like the sound of getting an offer from the EU should Brexit happen ... that would mean another independence referendum for sure. The tone of this piece plays right into those who would have us quit because the EU is 'dictating' to us.

And the Guardian should start making sure their headlines use EU rather than Europe - it's not the same entity, is it?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 10:15 am

John Mann ‏@JohnMannMP Jan 7

Huge storm beginning to brew over George Osborne stitching up the FCA ( the banking regulator)

Not looked yet. Wonder what that's all about.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 10:18 am

ohsocynical wrote:John Mann ‏@JohnMannMP Jan 7

Huge storm beginning to brew over George Osborne stitching up the FCA ( the banking regulator)

Not looked yet. Wonder what that's all about.

The review into banking behaviour and culture was dropped - closely followed by the woman who was going to take on the chief role at FCA deciding she wouldn't after all - having been one of the fiercest, most determined to see change in financial services / sector .... it's all more than a bit off.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 10:25 am

yahyah wrote:Peak squelch.
Excellent description of the state of the land round here RR.

Perfect description of our garden.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 10:29 am

http://clairebolderson.com/2016/01/hous ... l-crusade/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Housing policy or moral crusade?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 10:32 am

http://www.theguardian.com/housing-netw ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The social housing tenants taking to Twitter to influence policy
Not all tenants want to be on a housing association board. Social media gives them the opportunity to shape housing and fight back against bad PR

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 10:35 am

https://kittysjones.wordpress.com/2016/ ... ternalism/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Infantilizing the nation – an insight into conservative paternalism

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 10:37 am

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ca ... ar_twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cancer patients could be left HOMELESS because of brutal Tory benefit cuts
Macmillan Cancer Support says Government cuts to ESA would leave 10% unable or struggling to pay their mortgage or rent if they lost their current £120 a month

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 10:42 am

HindleA wrote:R.I.P.David Bowie,

NO, it can't be

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 10:43 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
It’s time for Europe to turn the tables on bullying Britain
Joris Luyendijk
So far all the talk has been of David Cameron’s demands. But the EU would hold all the power in post-Brexit negotiations, so it should spell out how it would make an outgoing Britain suffer
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... cameron-eu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... So let us start talking now, out loud in Brussels as well as in Europe’s opinion pages and in national parliaments, about the offer we are going to make to the Scots, should they prefer Brussels to London in the event of Brexit. Let’s also discuss in which ways we are going to repatriate financial powers from London to the European mainland. It is strange enough that Europe’s financial centre lies outside the eurozone, but to have it outside the EU? That would be like placing Wall Street in Cuba...
His suggested strategy - Project Fear back to us with bells and hammers on it - sounds like a surefire recipe for Brexit to me. I'm sure even the Scots might like the sound of getting an offer from the EU should Brexit happen ... that would mean another independence referendum for sure. The tone of this piece plays right into those who would have us quit because the EU is 'dictating' to us.

And the Guardian should start making sure their headlines use EU rather than Europe - it's not the same entity, is it?

Morning

Is a bit intemperate I must say but this approach is going to happen at some point

The Europeans see us British as old-fashioned jokes still focused on Empire who despite everything have a sense of superiority

Not always fair but you can't blame them if they listen to Cameron or read the press!

As we get closer to the referendum the debates will get nasty and the 'No' side will be insulting our partners whilst the 'Yes' will probably downplay the cultural benefits and sense of partnership and talk only of money!

At some point some people on the continent are going to start expressing these more strident views about our approach...especially that of Cameron the Incompetent.

This is not going to end up pretty due to his fuckuppery and Labour has to be careful he doesn't allow itself to be used as with Scotland

I think Corbyn's approach to communication actually helps Labour avoid that. He doesn't feel the need to play to the media's tune and he cannot be said to be an ardent Europhile and so he can support 'In' without seeming dogmatic

The danger will be the Europhile Nulab types who will be only be too happy to jump to Cameron's tune and get over excited about feeling important

A Labour low key In campaign, focused on the benefits of a strong partnership in the uncertain world with the unions taking a strong part on the benefits to workers of the EU.

Let the Tories tear themselves apart

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 10:47 am

howsillyofme1 wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
It’s time for Europe to turn the tables on bullying Britain
Joris Luyendijk
So far all the talk has been of David Cameron’s demands. But the EU would hold all the power in post-Brexit negotiations, so it should spell out how it would make an outgoing Britain suffer
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... cameron-eu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

... So let us start talking now, out loud in Brussels as well as in Europe’s opinion pages and in national parliaments, about the offer we are going to make to the Scots, should they prefer Brussels to London in the event of Brexit. Let’s also discuss in which ways we are going to repatriate financial powers from London to the European mainland. It is strange enough that Europe’s financial centre lies outside the eurozone, but to have it outside the EU? That would be like placing Wall Street in Cuba...
His suggested strategy - Project Fear back to us with bells and hammers on it - sounds like a surefire recipe for Brexit to me. I'm sure even the Scots might like the sound of getting an offer from the EU should Brexit happen ... that would mean another independence referendum for sure. The tone of this piece plays right into those who would have us quit because the EU is 'dictating' to us.

And the Guardian should start making sure their headlines use EU rather than Europe - it's not the same entity, is it?
Morning

Is a bit intemperate I must say but this approach is going to happen at some point

The Europeans see us British as old-fashioned jokes still focused on Empire who despite everything have a sense of superiority

Not always fair but you can't blame them if they listen to Cameron or read the press!

As we get closer to the referendum the debates will get nasty and the 'No' side will be insulting our partners whilst the 'Yes' will probably downplay the cultural benefits and sense of partnership and talk only of money!

At some point some people on the continent are going to start expressing these more strident views about our approach...especially that of Cameron the Incompetent.

This is not going to end up pretty due to his fuckuppery and Labour has to be careful he doesn't allow itself to be used as with Scotland

I think Corbyn's approach to communication actually helps Labour avoid that. He doesn't feel the need to play to the media's tune and he cannot be said to be an ardent Europhile and so he can support 'In' without seeming dogmatic

The danger will be the Europhile Nulab types who will be only be too happy to jump to Cameron's tune and get over excited about feeling important

A Labour low key In campaign, focused on the benefits of a strong partnership in the uncertain world with the unions taking a strong part on the benefits to workers of the EU.

Let the Tories tear themselves apart

I agree with the need not to jump to be part of Cameron's disaster - and that Corbyn's approach is probably going to be helpful. I'm owning to being undecided re Remain or Leave at present (I've always thought myself pro EU previously). Various factors make me less so at the present time.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 10:54 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Still stunned at the news of Bowie's passing. If you're going to go then a couple of days after the release of what might be your best album in a couple of decades then is one hell of a way to do it. I even changed my day at the library last week so I could go and pick it up on the day of release.

My husband probably doesn't know yet - he worked on his music this morning and didn't see the news.
Bowie is his favourite and one of mine.
We were playing his music together a couple of weeks ago, it was a good day, a lovely time.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 11:00 am

[quote="TobyLatimer"][/quote]
I love Beryl.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 11:03 am

citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:R.I.P.David Bowie,
NO, it can't be

Afraid it is

Released his final album days ago, was determined to stay alive just long enough to see it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 11:08 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:R.I.P.David Bowie,
NO, it can't be
Afraid it is

Released his final album days ago, was determined to stay alive just long enough to see it.

I accept David Bowie is gone. I was unprepared for how shocked and utterly sad I feel right now.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 11:12 am

R.I.P. David.

There is a good (!!!!!!!) editorial at the G on OGRPPFGTCC's "starter homes".

Quote: "This is terrible policy and stupid politics".

Correct.

On median wage, 5 x income would allow a mortgage of £135,000.
Two people on the median wage or more could get £270,000.
The deposit on the cheapest "starter home" - minimum 5% - is £5,000.
So a couple on £50K-plus PA with a chunk of savings could afford one of these "affordable" homes.
If they are under 40 years of age, they can get a 20% discount.
After 5 years, they can sell the home at market rate and pocket the discount.

Osborne is putting together a package worth more than £20 Billion overall to make this work.

We will be paying for councils to knock down homes that people currently live in.
We will be paying for councils to relocate the people thus cleansed from their communities.
We will be paying for developers to put up rabbit-hutches for obscene profit on land that's ours.
We will be paying for people on good earnings to make money on property. Again.

Home ownership is already beyond the reach of many. This latest wheeze makes matters worse, not better.
With the price of the cheapest of these "affordable" homes at 17 x median wage in London and 9 x median wage elsewhere, they are only "affordable" to people who can already afford to buy, albeit outside the capital.

It's obvious where this is going. Increasing the already generous discounts for Right To Buy; bankrolling buyers of houses worth £600K under Help To Buy; tax breaks for landlords; no extra taxes on second/etc. homes; bedroom tax causing arrears, evictions, and a rise in already increasing homelessness; Pay To Stay......on and on it goes.

This is the end of social housing.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 11:18 am

Celebrate his life,be happy that his passing was exquisitively timed,surrounded by love.I used to suspect the ability to hang on and release when ready,my recent experience has removed that doubt.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 11:24 am

HindleA wrote:Celebrate his life,be happy that his passing was exquisitively timed,surrounded by love.I used to suspect the ability to hang on and release when ready,my recent experience has removed that doubt.

His family were with him and I'm glad.

I'll turn my attention now to politics.
Good-morning, everyone.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 11:37 am

On balance, I'd rather stay within the EU but, as RobertSnozers says, the reasons for "out" are stacking up. And I believe coming out will do irreparable damage to the Conservatives (the City being not the least of it). If the only way we can dislodge the Conservatives is to vote "No" - then so be it. We can recover, somehow, from the exit - but a continuance of this species of government is something that we won't recover from. This is not "cutting off the nose to spite the face" but rather "cutting off the nose to save the rest of the entity" (the entity, in this case, being one that is capable, in time, of growing a new nose).

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 11 Jan, 2016 11:37 am

In context of removing an average of £30 a week housing support from relatively few numbers in the scale of things of homeowners who are not expected to work(already timelimited for JSA),that facillitates vast savings.