Tuesday 5th April 2016

Post by **refitman** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 7:09 am

Morning all.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 8:13 am

Morning. Sorry to do this to you first thing ...

Iain Duncan Smith 'wept about plight of single mother' in TV interview
Ian Hislop says former work and pensions secretary broke down during filming of new Workers or Shirkers documentary
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... r-shirkers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't read if you have any concerns about your blood pressure or heart.

And I think I will be steering well clear of Hislop's 'Workers or Shirkers'. Utterly fed up with this - I thought we might have moved beyond the blaming rhetoric. Obviously not.

Hislop’s documentary considers “controversial benefits cuts, anxieties about scroungers, sensational newspaper reports, arguments about who does and doesn’t deserve welfare” during the Victorian era.

He also interviews Deirdre Kelly, the woman known as White Dee who featured in reality television show Benefits Street, as well as Guardian columnist Owen Jones.

• Workers or Shirkers? Ian Hislop’s Victorian Benefits airs on 7 April on BBC2.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 8:20 am

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 15m15 minutes ago
Could it be that the 2016 London Mayoral election is one where the Lynton Crosby campaign ends up as loser?

I really hope so.

Mike Smithson
‏@MSmithsonPB
New ComRes London Mayoral poll for LBC has Sadiq Khan 10% ahead.
Khan 55%
Goldsmith 45%

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 8:32 am

Good morfternoon.

The Tories are in meltdown. Surely now Corbyn will find his voice
Polly Toynbee (Guardian)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... referendum

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 8:33 am

Paul Goodman ‏@PaulGoodmanCH 6m6 minutes ago
Thoughtful @ConHome piece from Graham Brady questioning the role of MATs in academy expansion http://bit.ly/1S6pKlW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 8:44 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

The Tories are in meltdown. Surely now Corbyn will find his voice
Polly Toynbee (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... referendum

I don't agree with Toynbee on this. I think the Labour approach to not focus strongly on the EU ref until the short ref campaign period begins and the other elections are over is the right one. She cites Khan's approach in London as showing you can be strongly IN and win as how to go about it ... sorry to tell you this Polly but London is not a good model for much of the rest of the country. I'm still finding it difficult to explain simply to people which election is for what and what powers / issues are relevant to each of them. And - there are a lot of people - Labour voters included - who are not automatically wanting to Remain. I have to work out what my energy and focus should really be directed towards when we're out on the doorstep trying to do the best for a Labour majority in the Assembly.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 8:49 am

Superb stuff as usual from Michael Rosen.

Dear Nicky Morgan: so much for freeing schools from ‘government diktats’
The education system is ‘working’ – in the same way that dying cures illness
http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... -education" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 8:57 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

The Tories are in meltdown. Surely now Corbyn will find his voice
Polly Toynbee (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... referendum
I don't agree with Toynbee on this. I think the Labour approach to not focus strongly on the EU ref until the short ref campaign period begins and the other elections are over is the right one. She cites Khan's approach in London as showing you can be strongly IN and win as how to go about it ... sorry to tell you this Polly but London is not a good model for much of the rest of the country. I'm still finding it difficult to explain simply to people which election is for what and what powers / issues are relevant to each of them. And - there are a lot of people - Labour voters included - who are not automatically wanting to Remain. I have to work out what my energy and focus should really be directed towards when we're out on the doorstep trying to do the best for a Labour majority in the Assembly.

I had the exact same reaction to the article. She seems to have forgotten all the Eurosceptic potential Labour voters that Labour needs to engage and win over on local issues. The referendum is of more immediate relevance to the role of London mayor in a way I just don't think it is elsewhere. With both Labour and Tories adopting an official "in" position, the EU isn't really relevant in any contests that pit the two against each other, where the focus will surely be on the things they disagree on.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 8:58 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

The Tories are in meltdown. Surely now Corbyn will find his voice
Polly Toynbee (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... referendum
I don't agree with Toynbee on this. I think the Labour approach to not focus strongly on the EU ref until the short ref campaign period begins and the other elections are over is the right one. She cites Khan's approach in London as showing you can be strongly IN and win as how to go about it ... sorry to tell you this Polly but London is not a good model for much of the rest of the country. I'm still finding it difficult to explain simply to people which election is for what and what powers / issues are relevant to each of them. And - there are a lot of people - Labour voters included - who are not automatically wanting to Remain. I have to work out what my energy and focus should really be directed towards when we're out on the doorstep trying to do the best for a Labour majority in the Assembly.

It was a bit of an odd one, wasn't it? I just threw it in for consideration. Much of it is predicated on levels of voter registration and a registration system that we don't actually have.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 9:06 am

Morning all. I'm in agreement with the rest of the echo chamber, concentrate on the locals first then the EU referendum. Give people the opportunity to talk about the deterioration of the roads and local services etc and they don't pass it up.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 9:13 am

Sam Coates Times ‏@SamCoatesTimes 1m1 minute ago
Stephen Crabb first speech as DWP SoS next week. Will recommit to Universal Credit & promise evidence based approach http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/poli ... 727587.ece" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 9:21 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning. Sorry to do this to you first thing ...

Iain Duncan Smith 'wept about plight of single mother' in TV interview
Ian Hislop says former work and pensions secretary broke down during filming of new Workers or Shirkers documentary
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... r-shirkers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Don't read if you have any concerns about your blood pressure or heart.

And I think I will be steering well clear of Hislop's 'Workers or Shirkers'. Utterly fed up with this - I thought we might have moved beyond the blaming rhetoric. Obviously not.
Hislop’s documentary considers “controversial benefits cuts, anxieties about scroungers, sensational newspaper reports, arguments about who does and doesn’t deserve welfare” during the Victorian era.

He also interviews Deirdre Kelly, the woman known as White Dee who featured in reality television show Benefits Street, as well as Guardian columnist Owen Jones.

• Workers or Shirkers? Ian Hislop’s Victorian Benefits airs on 7 April on BBC2.

I am SO glad I wasn't the one to bring this to the board's attention. Why am I not surprised to see f***ing Hislop involved? Haven't been able to stomach HIGNFY since 2010, never mind any of his documentaries.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 9:30 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Paul Goodman ‏@PaulGoodmanCH 6m6 minutes ago
Thoughtful @ConHome piece from Graham Brady questioning the role of MATs in academy expansion http://bit.ly/1S6pKlW" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good of Brady to wake up and see where this has been heading over the past 5 years.

Morgan has not only her MPs, councillors, edu people to persuade but the 2,200+ converter academies that she'll want to form into as few MATs as possible for it to be manageable.

Now that ain't gonna be easy...."Hang on - we have autonomy now. And you think we're simply going to give it up and join a MAT where we'll almost certainly lose it?"

Good luck with that one.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:01 am

Just heard that Jeremy Corbyn is to appear on Victoria Derbyshire shortly about the Panama Papers.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:05 am

Anyone catch Panorama last night? I'd be interested to hear what you thought of it.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:06 am

Morning.

"Drewlove Richardwrl 3m ago

I worked in Easterhouse at the time IDS visited and had his epiphany. There welling eyes and wringing of hands that day too.
Problem is he didn't listen to a bloody word the people said to him there. IDS only heard the voice in his own head repeating the old, old Tory mantra about the deserving and undeserving poor."

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:17 am

Why do I have the feeling that Cameron has backed himself into another corner with the Tax Haven Enquiry? Scottish independence and the EU vote are both things to which he bowed in the wind rather than taking the reins. Speaking of reins, was it Rebecca that led the way? Old news!

Anyway fine words for the electorate as usual but never any action. Something tells me that he shall have to deliver more than he had intended... or was that appointed to deliver. I'm sure there are dissatisfied appointees.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:25 am

Barry Sheerman Retweeted
IFAW Westminster ‏@IFAWWestminster 17h17 hours ago
Court confirms NFU/Government’s claims of intimidation from badger cull protestors were exaggerated and misleading http://bit.ly/1UDBZwV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:25 am

David wants to stay home today and play with Larry. Jeremy tells him to stop pussyfooting around. (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... id-cameron).

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:30 am

Ian Birrell ‏@ianbirrell 8m8 minutes ago
Ten days Lord Flight said UK can't afford to protect spending on welfare, NHS & schools http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolu ... hools.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … Today he's in #panamapapers

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:30 am

Fair dues Caroline Flint getting stuck into the Tories over the Panama papers. Wherefore art thou Chris Leslie though?

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:36 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

The Tories are in meltdown. Surely now Corbyn will find his voice
Polly Toynbee (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... referendum
I don't agree with Toynbee on this. I think the Labour approach to not focus strongly on the EU ref until the short ref campaign period begins and the other elections are over is the right one. She cites Khan's approach in London as showing you can be strongly IN and win as how to go about it ... sorry to tell you this Polly but London is not a good model for much of the rest of the country. I'm still finding it difficult to explain simply to people which election is for what and what powers / issues are relevant to each of them. And - there are a lot of people - Labour voters included - who are not automatically wanting to Remain. I have to work out what my energy and focus should really be directed towards when we're out on the doorstep trying to do the best for a Labour majority in the Assembly.

I agree with disagreeing with Toynbee.

She's usually perceptive (although she was dead against JC becoming leader) but in this case she's letting her own enthusiasm for the EU get the better of a cool headed assessment of the best way for Labour to handle this. They don't want to fall into the trap of looking as if they're collaborating with Cameron and co.

A major reason why Polly joined the SDP back in the 80s was because Labour then was against the EEC. These days the SDP's formation is blamed on Labour supposedly going too far left, but Europe was a major factor. Roy Jenkins was at Oxford in the early 30s with Ted Heath, where they belonged to the same group of friends who saw a unified Europe as the only way to achieve peace. The two remained on friendly terms through out their lives.

The SDP was one of the worst things to happen in the 80s, splitting the anti Tory vote and ensuring a triumphant Mrs T. And of course it began the political career of Chris Grayling.

It would be interesting to see if Europe eventually splits the Tory party into two separate parties.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:37 am

I'm expecting some kind of big distraction issue to appear in the next 24 hours to take the heat of Cameron and co .... something designed to cause maximum hassle for Labour.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:40 am

Just think how many mothers and fathers - single or otherwise - IDS has made weep.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:42 am

StephenDolan wrote:Anyone catch Panorama last night? I'd be interested to hear what you thought of it.

I did. It was a bit "meh".

It doesn't help that I can't stand the reporter, somebody Bilton - he's got that same mouth-thing going on that Cameron has when he's being all firm and serious and tight-lipped.
I get a bit sick of the door-stepping antics; the bloke chased about in the programme (who I'd never heard of) wasn't particularly interesting. There are much bigger fish to fry.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:42 am

NonOxCol wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning. Sorry to do this to you first thing ...

Iain Duncan Smith 'wept about plight of single mother' in TV interview
Ian Hislop says former work and pensions secretary broke down during filming of new Workers or Shirkers documentary
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... r-shirkers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Don't read if you have any concerns about your blood pressure or heart.

And I think I will be steering well clear of Hislop's 'Workers or Shirkers'. Utterly fed up with this - I thought we might have moved beyond the blaming rhetoric. Obviously not.
Hislop’s documentary considers “controversial benefits cuts, anxieties about scroungers, sensational newspaper reports, arguments about who does and doesn’t deserve welfare” during the Victorian era.

He also interviews Deirdre Kelly, the woman known as White Dee who featured in reality television show Benefits Street, as well as Guardian columnist Owen Jones.

• Workers or Shirkers? Ian Hislop’s Victorian Benefits airs on 7 April on BBC2.
I am SO glad I wasn't the one to bring this to the board's attention. Why am I not surprised to see f***ing Hislop involved? Haven't been able to stomach HIGNFY since 2010, never mind any of his documentaries.

He has always been smug, but its often off the scale these days.

Its a bit strange really that Private Eye is still as readable as it is - maybe he doesn't have much to do with its present strong points?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:45 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:I'm expecting some kind of big distraction issue to appear in the next 24 hours to take the heat of Cameron and co .... something designed to cause maximum hassle for Labour.

The Vault is being checked I imagine. If nothing big does appear I'd take that as a sign that Cameron has lost the backing of the press over the EU referendum. I noticed that in 2012 when Cameron talked about being relaxed releasing his and cabinet members tax details that Johnson had done so (to hit Livingstone hard). Another arrow in reserve for Boris's quiver.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:47 am

When the Daily Mash hits the spot it is very good - and it is on this

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:51 am

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 2m2 minutes ago
ComRes London Mayoral poll: Zac Goldsmith has 10% lead amongst white voters but trails by 33% amongst non whites

I wonder why. How about trying to think of Londoners as Londoners first and foremost, rather than playing the old division game?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:57 am

Jonathan Portes Retweeted
judy hamilton ‏@secretspartacus 2m2 minutes ago
Funding for longterm unemployed to drop from £500M to £130M as Stephen Crabb prepares to prioritise helping disabled http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/welfa ... -k2fr96cnp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Oh I see - the disabled are now going to become the slightly more deserving and the long term unemployed are going to be the really undeserving.

Of course - there's probably a bit of cross over between the two categories - no?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 10:58 am

Strong words from Corbyn, this pressure needs to continue.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 11:00 am

Loving the picture the BBC news app are using for the Cameron under pressure story

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 11:03 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:When the Daily Mash hits the spot it is very good - and it is on this

What, this?

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/ ... 0405107777" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 11:07 am

StephenDolan wrote:Loving the picture the BBC news app are using for the Cameron under pressure story

What was it? Think they've changed it (it's Dave Sexy Specs now).

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 11:08 am

Indeed, that's the one

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 11:21 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:I'm expecting some kind of big distraction issue to appear in the next 24 hours to take the heat of Cameron and co .... something designed to cause maximum hassle for Labour.

They'll probably murder Larry and throw his corpse on a table somewhere.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 11:31 am

Dawn Foster speaks up again, Cuts in council tax support are no joke for poorer residents (http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... ts-no-joke), which includes a link to Money Advice Trust, Local authorities refer 2.1 million debts to bailiffs in 12 months (http://www.moneyadvicetrust.org/media/n ... -2015.aspx).

Anyone fancy joining my gang offering commission only services? There's money to be made.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 11:38 am

frightful_oik wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:I'm expecting some kind of big distraction issue to appear in the next 24 hours to take the heat of Cameron and co .... something designed to cause maximum hassle for Labour.
They'll probably murder Larry and throw his corpse on a table somewhere.

Anyone seen Sir Eric lately? I heard that Larry had punctured David's fat suit only leaving him with his Mr. Blobby outfit. Now that Mr. Pickles is back from the repair shop David was last seen sitting on Larry.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 11:46 am

Isn't there a royal baby or wedding that can be announced? Cameron needs helping out.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 11:54 am

I see the usual "unions avoiding tax!!" nonsense is coming up from the usual suspects on the frothing right.

I knew there was something that explained the rules a bit...

https://www.hwfisher.co.uk/sectors/not- ... de-unions/

Almost all trade unions that pay corporation tax are paying more than they should. Although the bulk of their income — subscriptions — is free of all tax, revenue from other sources such as bank interest, investments or the sale of property is not. Most trade unions are aware of this fact and know that the cost of provident benefits can be set against their corporation tax liability. But they can often do so much more.

We have successfully persuaded HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) that it is not only the benefits that should be taken into account, but other expenses associated with them. As a result we have recovered, for trade unions, several million pounds in overpaid tax and we think that a lot more could be recovered by those that haven’t yet taken advice.

If the Tories had wanted to change the rules about this then they've been around for quite a while now - I guess they're satisfied with them as they are.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 11:55 am

StephenDolan wrote:Isn't there a royal baby or wedding that can be announced? Cameron needs helping out.

Reminds me of Yes Prime Minister...

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 11:58 am

I'm loving this tax haven stuff. Corbyn is obviously in his element on it, but all credit to Ed M who set the scene for this.

Both Corbyn and Miliband would appear to be squeaky clean when it comes to tax, expenses etc., and Labour has absolutely been hammering this point for the last few years.

The difference now is that Dave is already on the ropes with budget, referendum, floods, steel (where does one stop?).

Where's that popcorn emoji?

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 12:01 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Isn't there a royal baby or wedding that can be announced? Cameron needs helping out.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 12:10 pm

Declan Gaffney

Unsure what to make of the IDS article?

I like the Walrus best," said Alice, "because you see he was a little sorry for the poor oysters."

"He ate more than the Carpenter, though," said Tweedledee. "You see he held his handkerchief in front, so that the Carpenter couldn't count how many he took: contrariwise."

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 12:15 pm

It seems I've finally hit the right note. Catch you later.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 12:32 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:I'm expecting some kind of big distraction issue to appear in the next 24 hours to take the heat of Cameron and co .... something designed to cause maximum hassle for Labour.

Me too.

Maeght · Post by **Maeght** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 12:37 pm

nickyinnorfolk wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:Loving the picture the BBC news app are using for the Cameron under pressure story
What was it? Think they've changed it (it's Dave Sexy Specs now).

Who was it who said - I think on here -

" Never trust a man with no lips"

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 12:37 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all. I'm in agreement with the rest of the echo chamber, concentrate on the locals first then the EU referendum. Give people the opportunity to talk about the deterioration of the roads and local services etc and they don't pass it up.

Good-afternoon, everyone.
Not so much an echo chamber than consensus - we're in agreement about a good idea.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 12:41 pm

Where is Laura Kuenssberg?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 05 Apr, 2016 12:42 pm

On holiday, maybe?

Can't say I've missed her overmuch tbh