Tuesday 12th April 2016

Post by **refitman** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 7:09 am

Morning all.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 8:17 am

Morning all. Back from walking the dog in time to catch the Justin Webb and Hague love in.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 8:22 am

: Money Makeover for the Camerons.jpg (45.2 KiB) Viewed 6056 times

I think it must be a bit tongue in cheek, don't you?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 8:25 am

Michael Rosen ‏@MichaelRosenYes 2h2 hours ago
Good people of Rutland: at the next election, remember that your MP, Alan Duncan thinks that most of you are 'low achievers'.

Or as Justin Webb of Radio 4 rephrased it .... he's worried that people with ambition and aspiration won't want to become MPs. Not a mention of him actually saying 'low achievers'.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 9:06 am

God bless Dennis Skinner.

'Dodgy Dave' trending on Twitter all yesterday evening.

Never a truer word was spoken. Given the joke that our democracy has become, defying the rules in the way he did is entirely justified.

Not challenging the rules of the old boys club means the old boys keep getting away with murder.

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 9:12 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Money Makeover for the Camerons.jpg
I think it must be a bit tongue in cheek, don't you?

After that photo was taken it was revealed in the press that the sea Mrs C had been swimming in was contaminated with raw sewage. Assuming Dave hadn't been taken short, that's another example of wonderful privatised water companies ....

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 9:22 am

: Khan Light Brigade.jpg (56.84 KiB) Viewed 6010 times

Now that's a lovely picture.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 9:25 am

: Conservative Piles Exposed.jpg (25.2 KiB) Viewed 6009 times

nickyinnorfolk · Post by **nickyinnorfolk** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 9:29 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Conservative Piles Exposed.jpg

Nice ...

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 9:31 am

Morning all.

I listened to David Miliband on the Brexit issue and as he didn't say anything even remotely controversial about Corbyn, the reaction seems to be "Who?" whereas of course if he'd issued even the mildest rebuke they'd be all over this like a rash.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 9:39 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

I listened to David Miliband on the Brexit issue and as he didn't say anything even remotely controversial about Corbyn, the reaction seems to be "Who?" whereas of course if he'd issued even the mildest rebuke they'd be all over this like a rash.

PrayForDFH, that "proper Miliband" candle still burns bright.

Lonewolfie · Post by **Lonewolfie** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 9:49 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Michael Rosen ‏@MichaelRosenYes 2h2 hours ago
Good people of Rutland: at the next election, remember that your MP, Alan Duncan thinks that most of you are 'low achievers'.
Or as Justin Webb of Radio 4 rephrased it .... he's worried that people with ambition and aspiration won't want to become MPs. Not a mention of him actually saying 'low achievers'.

That's not far from Hope (just north of Peterborough)...do all wannabee MPs need to 'aspire' to this sort of thing then? (...and much as I hate to link to the Dacre-supporting anti-Leveson Hislop organ...)

POLITICS and money continue to mix sweetly for the prime minister’s special envoy to Yemen, Alan Duncan. The ex-international development minister and MP for Rutland and Melton has just become a director of oil company Fujairah Refining Ltd, on £8,000 a month for an anticipated 156 hours a year (ie more than £600 per hour).The company, based in the emirate of Fujairah on the Gulf of Oman coast, is majority-owned by Swiss-based oil company Vitol, with which Duncan has a long association. He was a consultant to the company in the 1990s and later took its money to fund his office as a shadow energy secretary (Eye 1214). He is also known to be close to Vitol chief executive Ian Taylor, a major Tory donor.

...and...

The Yemeni civil war that erupted last year and saw Shia rebels capture Sana’a seriously hits these interests. A Gulf coalition including Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates – including Fujairah, which has a stake in the company Duncan is now working for – is supporting the old Sunni regime, with the help of British arms.
As this military campaign comes under increasing pressure over indiscriminate bombing, perhaps the British government’s representative in the region might not be expected to be on the payroll of a company with such a commercial interest in the outcome – even if the point does escape pisspoor Acoba.

http://www.private-eye.co.uk/sections.p ... issue=1413

I would have absdolutely nothing to say about such things as conflict of interest, oil and arms companies being involved in the Panama Papers, Clouncy using one of his little helpers to get him out of a tight spot....'cos there won't be any connection whatsoever....none at all...

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 9:50 am

I'm curious as to what your thoughts on how the mayoral and local election results will impact on the EU referendum build-up.

If there's a strong showing for /against the Conservatives, do you think this'll be used by those for/against Brexit as a reflection on Cameron, to weaken/strengthen their EU referendum position?

I personally wouldn't be surprised if Goldsmith finishing a long way behind Khan was spun by the Johnson camp as showing how marvelous Johnson is. 'Look, he did exceptionally well being elected mayor twice in a demonstrative Labour heartland'.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 10:02 am

StephenDolan wrote:I'm curious as to what your thoughts on how the mayoral and local election results will impact on the EU referendum build-up.

If there's a strong showing for /against the Conservatives, do you think this'll be used by those for/against Brexit as a reflection on Cameron, to weaken/strengthen their EU referendum position?

I personally wouldn't be surprised if Goldsmith finishing a long way behind Khan was spun by the Johnson camp as showing how marvelous Johnson is. 'Look, he did exceptionally well being elected mayor twice in a demonstrative Labour heartland'.

Isn't Goldsmith supporting out? In which case losing by a big margin would be a blow for the out campaign, although personally I think it will be quite close, anyway.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 10:07 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Michael Rosen ‏@MichaelRosenYes 2h2 hours ago
Good people of Rutland: at the next election, remember that your MP, Alan Duncan thinks that most of you are 'low achievers'.
Or as Justin Webb of Radio 4 rephrased it .... he's worried that people with ambition and aspiration won't want to become MPs. Not a mention of him actually saying 'low achievers'.

Oh for fuck's sake. Storm the building and start again.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 10:14 am

I watched C4 Dispatches an'd it made me wonder, did C4 just have the one undercover reporter? However badly we might think of Maximus, it's hard to believe that a majority of the DAs would be as upfront about their attitudes as the guy they landed on, Alan. Did they strike gold, or rather strike shit, or did they have more than one infiltrator and pick the best/worst one?

As an antidote, I recommend Gordon Buchanan and Alastair Campbell talking to puffins.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... r-campbell" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 10:25 am

NonOxCol wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Michael Rosen ‏@MichaelRosenYes 2h2 hours ago
Good people of Rutland: at the next election, remember that your MP, Alan Duncan thinks that most of you are 'low achievers'.
Or as Justin Webb of Radio 4 rephrased it .... he's worried that people with ambition and aspiration won't want to become MPs. Not a mention of him actually saying 'low achievers'.
Oh for fuck's sake. Storm the building and start again.

Looking at this Guardian article on what we've learnt so far from the tax return revelations, a very stark theme is emerging where the Tories all seem to have multiple income streams, while the Labour opposition are getting by on MP wages. Does being in government increase potential for outside income and does this subvert our democracy or does this simply show that the Tories and Labour aren't "all the same" after all. Also of interest is the huge sums Boris earns as a writer for the Telegraph. The people charged with holding the government to account are sometimes wealthier than the average opposition MP and almost certainly have little concept of how the majority of people live. This story is no longer about Cameron and is about the very foundations of our democracy that have now been revealed as seriously threatened by the extremes of wealth at the top.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... we-learned" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 10:46 am

Willow904 wrote:his story is no longer about Cameron and is about the very foundations of our democracy that have now been revealed as seriously threatened by the extremes of wealth at the top.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... we-learned" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Something that was a regular theme of Ed Miliband's leadership.

He is simply going to be *so* vindicated in just about everything in the coming years.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 10:47 am

NonOxCol wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Michael Rosen ‏@MichaelRosenYes 2h2 hours ago
Good people of Rutland: at the next election, remember that your MP, Alan Duncan thinks that most of you are 'low achievers'.
Or as Justin Webb of Radio 4 rephrased it .... he's worried that people with ambition and aspiration won't want to become MPs. Not a mention of him actually saying 'low achievers'.
Oh for fuck's sake. Storm the building and start again.

Right, on!

Good-morning, everyone

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 10:48 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:his story is no longer about Cameron and is about the very foundations of our democracy that have now been revealed as seriously threatened by the extremes of wealth at the top.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... we-learned" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Something that was a regular theme of Ed Miliband's leadership.

He is simply going to be *so* vindicated in just about everything in the coming years.

Scant reward unfortunately. Sigh.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 10:49 am

Good morfternoon.

Ministers have intensified efforts to get Tory supporters on public bodies, appointments chief says

Sir David Normington, the outgoing commissioner for public appointments, has told the Financial Times (subscription) that ministers have intensified efforts to ensure Tory supporters get appointed to public bodies since the general election. (Politics Live, Guardian)

That's an interesting (and unsurprising) read over at Politics Live. I don't have a subscription to the Financial Times in order to access the article referred to, however.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 10:59 am

StephenDolan wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:his story is no longer about Cameron and is about the very foundations of our democracy that have now been revealed as seriously threatened by the extremes of wealth at the top.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... we-learned" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Something that was a regular theme of Ed Miliband's leadership.

He is simply going to be *so* vindicated in just about everything in the coming years.
Scant reward unfortunately. Sigh.

I often think over Ed Miliband's speeches and writing
good truths he's spoken and good work he continues to do is reward enough
Corbyn's a good man too

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 11:00 am

StephenDolan wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:his story is no longer about Cameron and is about the very foundations of our democracy that have now been revealed as seriously threatened by the extremes of wealth at the top.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... we-learned" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Something that was a regular theme of Ed Miliband's leadership.

He is simply going to be *so* vindicated in just about everything in the coming years.
Scant reward unfortunately. Sigh.

I know what you mean, but being proved right by events will have its own satisfaction.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 11:02 am

William Hague’s comments about the perils of getting politicians to be more transparent about
their tax affairs were rather mild compared to what some MPs were telling the Financial Times.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... 91e8dc8a25" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What perils might those be, Bill?
You get shown for the free-booting thieves you are?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 11:03 am

William Hague’s comments about the perils of getting politicians to be more transparent about their tax affairs (see 9.07am) were rather mild compared to what some MPs were telling the Financial Times. Here’s an extract from their story (paywall).

MPs have responded angrily to the possibility of being forced to publish their tax returns, describing the idea as “completely ridiculous”, “knee jerk” and “reminiscent of the Stasi or the KGB” ...

“We are at the start of another expenses scandal,” said the Labour politician, referring to the events of 2009 when MPs’ expenses claims were made public. “If they make every MP publish their tax receipts there will be some horrors in there . . . and if it comes out just before the EU referendum then the consequences would be very serious.” (Politics Live, Guardian)

It's not clear if the Labour MP quoted here is for or against publishing. Sounds as if (or it has been given that slant, at any rate) she\he is against. Which, given what he\she has said is rather worrying.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 11:04 am

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... 91e8dc8a32" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pass me the sick bucket

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 11:16 am

PorFavor wrote:
William Hague’s comments about the perils of getting politicians to be more transparent about their tax affairs (see 9.07am) were rather mild compared to what some MPs were telling the Financial Times. Here’s an extract from their story (paywall).

MPs have responded angrily to the possibility of being forced to publish their tax returns, describing the idea as “completely ridiculous”, “knee jerk” and “reminiscent of the Stasi or the KGB” ...

“We are at the start of another expenses scandal,” said the Labour politician, referring to the events of 2009 when MPs’ expenses claims were made public. “If they make every MP publish their tax receipts there will be some horrors in there . . . and if it comes out just before the EU referendum then the consequences would be very serious.” (Politics Live, Guardian)

It's not clear if the Labour MP quoted here is for or against publishing. Sounds as if (or it has been given that slant, at any rate) she\he is against. Which, given what he\she has said is rather worrying.

I think they're saying they don't want them published before the EU referendum. Which is understandable if they are going to be as bad as that.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 11:25 am

citizenJA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... 91e8dc8a32

pass me the sick bucket

was it this that got to you?

If you’re ever in that terrible situation you will not care if the prime minister received a gift of money from his mother. You will only want to know that you have a prime minister who gives his patience, concentration and balance of judgment to the fate of one individual.

Here, have a fresh bucket ...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 11:27 am

I wish to make it clear,no tax-payers money was used towards the rental of my one bedroomed flat for work purposes,nor the mortgage,,indeed any expenses at all towards my home 200 miles away during my years of lowly achievement in the "South".

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 11:27 am

tinybgoat wrote:
citizenJA wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blo ... 91e8dc8a32

pass me the sick bucket
was it this that got to you?

If you’re ever in that terrible situation you will not care if the prime minister received a gift of money from his mother. You will only want to know that you have a prime minister who gives his patience, concentration and balance of judgment to the fate of one individual.
Here, have a fresh bucket ...

yes, thanks

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 11:27 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
William Hague’s comments about the perils of getting politicians to be more transparent about their tax affairs (see 9.07am) were rather mild compared to what some MPs were telling the Financial Times. Here’s an extract from their story (paywall).

MPs have responded angrily to the possibility of being forced to publish their tax returns, describing the idea as “completely ridiculous”, “knee jerk” and “reminiscent of the Stasi or the KGB” ...

“We are at the start of another expenses scandal,” said the Labour politician, referring to the events of 2009 when MPs’ expenses claims were made public. “If they make every MP publish their tax receipts there will be some horrors in there . . . and if it comes out just before the EU referendum then the consequences would be very serious.” (Politics Live, Guardian)

It's not clear if the Labour MP quoted here is for or against publishing. Sounds as if (or it has been given that slant, at any rate) she\he is against. Which, given what he\she has said is rather worrying.
I think they're saying they don't want them published before the EU referendum. Which is understandable if they are going to be as bad as that.

You could very well be right - but if so, it sounds as if she\he expects the "In" MPs are in line for being the worst offenders! (That's assuming the MP quoted is pro "Remain" - and of that, we have no idea.)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 11:34 am

The Guardian has today launched a big “The Web We Want” project looking at the issue of online abuse.

As part of that we’re asking readers what we can to to improve online comments here. The comments on this blog are a big part of what interesting to readers, but there is always room for improvement and, if you’ve got suggestions, we would like to hear them. There is a form here where you can comment. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Oh, no. Not another "Guardian Readers\Posters consultation". I'm not going to join the queue to be patronised. I had a basinful of that "convo" way back. It was poignant . . .

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 11:35 am

Unfortunately, its not as logical as that.

Any explosion of public rage as a result of mass publication would be likely to benefit the "out" camp - the views of the individual MPs wouldn't matter much.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 11:52 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:
Conservative Piles Exposed.jpg

If he'll show me his, I'll show him mine.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 11:56 am

Over and over again on the thread at the other place
'Oh! So everyone has to show their tax returns now?'
No - Just the ones legislating in government deciding how UK people live while not applying the same rules to themselves

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 11:58 am

PorFavor wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
It's not clear if the Labour MP quoted here is for or against publishing. Sounds as if (or it has been given that slant, at any rate) she\he is against. Which, given what he\she has said is rather worrying.
I think they're saying they don't want them published before the EU referendum. Which is understandable if they are going to be as bad as that.

You could very well be right - but if so, it sounds as if she\he expects the "In" MPs are in line for being the worst offenders! (That's assuming the MP quoted is pro "Remain" - and of that, we have no idea.)

Let's get it in the open now. It's the only way we're likely to get some transparency over financial dealings.
If too much time elapses there'll be other scandals to take our attention. And once they've got away with something it sets the benchmark.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 11:59 am

the Establishment has rolled out some noxious flatulence today

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 12:01 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"We also found that some subjects attracted more abusive or disruptive comments than others. Conversations about crosswords, cricket, horse racing and jazz were respectful"

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 12:04 pm

nickyinnorfolk wrote:
rebeccariots2 wrote:
Conservative Piles Exposed.jpg
Nice ...

Or as my dad used to call them. The Grapes of Wrath.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 12:06 pm

As mentioned by RR2 S.Crabb making a speech at the National Conference of Early Intervention Foundation at 12.20

https://lgaevents.local.gov.uk/lga/fron ... ventID=158" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 12:09 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... are_btn_tw

"We also found that some subjects attracted more abusive or disruptive comments than others. Conversations about crosswords, cricket, horse racing and jazz were respectful"

We jazz fans are never abusive. Well, unless someone says "Jazz? Oh yeah, I like Kenny G!"...

* apologies in advance to any Kenny G fans...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 12:12 pm

Remember laughing childishly for about three days when I saw Anusol at the chemist,easilly amused.

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 12:15 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... are_btn_tw

"We also found that some subjects attracted more abusive or disruptive comments than others. Conversations about crosswords, cricket, horse racing and jazz were respectful"
We jazz fans are never abusive. Well, unless someone says "Jazz? Oh yeah, I like Kenny G!"...

* apologies in advance to any Kenny G fans...

I'm just getting into jazz. Ever listened to Hiromi Roger?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 12:18 pm

Not on the Guardian,but on some crossword forums you get occasional heated debates and some cross words ,usually about etiquette eg.I only wanted a hint,not the answer.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 12:18 pm

I posted the links to Corbyn, McDonnell, Osborne and Cameron tax return documents on the Sparrow blog in response to someone else posting misleading information
My post is gone

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 12:23 pm

citizenJA wrote:the Establishment has rolled out some noxious flatulence today

But most people don't seem to be buying it. Which is heartening.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 12:24 pm

...since around 2010 articles written by women consistently attracted
a higher proportion of blocked comments than articles written by men.

We also found that some subjects attracted more abusive or disruptive
comments than others. Articles about feminism attracted very high levels
of blocked comments. And so did rape.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sickening

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 12:25 pm

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Ministers have intensified efforts to get Tory supporters on public bodies, appointments chief says

Sir David Normington, the outgoing commissioner for public appointments, has told the Financial Times (subscription) that ministers have intensified efforts to ensure Tory supporters get appointed to public bodies since the general election. (Politics Live, Guardian)
That's an interesting (and unsurprising) read over at Politics Live. I don't have a subscription to the Financial Times in order to access the article referred to, however.

Yeah but Dame Suzy Leather.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 12:27 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
citizenJA wrote:the Establishment has rolled out some noxious flatulence today
But most people don't seem to be buying it. Which is heartening.

Could they at least get some higher quality troll?
My heart isn't in that, I'm depressed as hell today.
It's indefensible this junk
The government aren't going away until they get voted or arrested out of their positions

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 12 Apr, 2016 12:30 pm

frightful_oik wrote: I'm just getting into jazz. Ever listened to Hiromi Roger?

Not yet. I know she has a lot of fans but not someone I've listened to - too many other interesting artists right now!